Guild Wars 2

copied from here. now i disagree on the stats part since it’s not hard to acquire the exotics you want/need and rares are fine for all content.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/10tal4/entitlement_the_real_problem_and_why_diminishing/

We seem to have a flood of posts regarding diminishing returns and why “ArenaNet is doing it wrong” and “they are so anti-player”. I’m going to keep this brief as I’m tired of writing walls of text.

The players on the forums and the subreddit complaining about deminishing returns are a vocal minority that have a problem of entitlement.

Guild Wars 2 is one month old. As such, there is a problem with the current system: Rewards (weapons, gear, karma, XP, coin) are not equal through the entire world when you are 80. Elite and veteran mobs don’t drop better loot. Events don’t scale to your level. That is the real problem.

Players only run into the diminishing return wall if they farm the same thing constantly. So why is ArenaNet suddenly the bad guy? They simply want you to move across the world, go into other areas and do the events there, the only issue is there is no incentive for a level 80 character to leave high end zones and do events around the world.

Another issue is that armor and weapons are actually not equal at all, as promised in the game’s development. This causes a disparity between legendaries and rares. This is something that Guild Wars was hugely against, as rarity did not matter and all stats were the same: the rarity was purely cosmetic. This problem also needs to be addressed.

I really can’t stop it, but I hope all of the whining about diminishing returns subsides after ArenaNet addresses the real problem.

TL;DR: the problem is players need to have an incentive to move across the world, gear and weapons need to be equal so people only work for skins, not stats.

I couldn’t care less about DR, I agree on scaling and itemization and all those false promises in development that never made it into the game is what really makes me mad.

Yep imad and you should be too for being betrayed by Blizzardnet.

Not only what you said is true, but it’s plain for the eye to see that the DR system in place is simply TOO harsh that it’s affecting people not trying to farm karma, but trying to progress in a chain.

I got hit with DR just trying to cleanse the Cathedral of Silence because the event failed and had to do it again.

Lumines.3916 Happened exactly the same to me.

Lumines.3916:

Not only what you said is true, but it’s plain for the eye to see that the DR system in place is simply TOO harsh that it’s affecting people not trying to farm karma, but trying to progress in a chain.

I got hit with DR just trying to cleanse the Cathedral of Silence because the event failed and had to do it again.

And this is what ArenaNet needs to work on. And it is what they will work on. But people need to be patient.

Lumines.3916:

Not only what you said is true, but it’s plain for the eye to see that the DR system in place is simply TOO harsh that it’s affecting people not trying to farm karma, but trying to progress in a chain.

I got hit with DR just trying to cleanse the Cathedral of Silence because the event failed and had to do it again.

I’d argue that example is a bug, or at least it should just be addressed as a bug. I agree that when things like that happen it’s annoying, but the DR system is alright overall. I can at least understand why it’s there and play around it without any real issues — that’s been my experience so far. In dungeons, I have NO problem with it, because the end result is that when I look for pugs, people are willing to run any path, and that’s a good thing. It’s pretty annoying to be stuck to one path just because the herd decides it’s the easiest way to tokens.

Rarity not mattering… so does this mean that blues should be as powerful as exotics? I’d be happy with that ^_^

dimgl.4786:

Lumines.3916:

Not only what you said is true, but it’s plain for the eye to see that the DR system in place is simply TOO harsh that it’s affecting people not trying to farm karma, but trying to progress in a chain.

I got hit with DR just trying to cleanse the Cathedral of Silence because the event failed and had to do it again.

And this is what ArenaNet needs to work on. And it is what they will work on. But people need to be patient.

yes, patience is needed. i just hope they can keep sight of the root issue and not just get flooded by those crying about their farming. make it so there’s a point to going away from the clumped up farm spots, instead of making unlimited farms. this way, they won’t have to divert their time to policing the farming in the first place.

Agemnon.4608:

Rarity not mattering… so does this mean that blues should be as powerful as exotics? I’d be happy with that

Agemnon: this is how it worked in Guild Wars 1. The rarity was:

Blue, purple, gold and green.

What you got in the end was a very elegant system where the rarity only meant the skins were rarer, and all of the stats remained the same. This is where ArenaNet failed to deliver and it enfuriates me that it would deviate me from this. It’s now biting them in the kitten because now players are mad that they can’t grind fast enough to achieve better stats.

Agemnon.4608:

Rarity not mattering… so does this mean that blues should be as powerful as exotics? I’d be happy with that

meh, this game has like a 12% gap between rarity and the highest magnitude of gear is easy to get. you can even skate by on level 72-75 exotics which are extremely close in stats to lvl 80’s and better than lvl 80 masterwork-rare items.

there’s a small gear disparity, so small i wouldn’t call it disparity.

dimgl.4786:

Agemnon.4608:

Rarity not mattering… so does this mean that blues should be as powerful as exotics? I’d be happy with that

Agemnon: this is how it worked in Guild Wars 1. The rarity was:

Blue, purple, gold and green.

What you got in the end was a very elegant system where the rarity only meant the skins were rarer, and all of the stats remained the same. This is where ArenaNet failed to deliver and it enfuriates me that it would deviate me from this. It’s now biting them in the kitten because now players are mad that they can’t grind fast enough to achieve better stats.

which is funny imo, because unless you’re geared like i am with pow/tough/vit items you can just buy everything with the money you’ve accumulated up to 80 and your karma.

if you’re just using berserker/traveler/rampager like 90% of this game’s players you don’t have to do one dungeon or anything besides look for a karma vendor in Orr, craft or press O to get your exotics.

but i do get it, at least people’s mindset. there are better stats(though pretty overblown in their urgency and necessity), there is better rewards and drops only in lvl 80 content…so they farm.

I’d be more than happy to move around the world, I take part in WvW all the time when my guildies are on and it’s really fun while gain a button of Karma. However, I hate WvW when it means following the zerg solo, it’s just not an enjoyable activity when you’re on your own.

This means I go back to PvE to get some karma going. If they actually made event rewards scale to your character’s level and not just your scaled level, that would be plenty incentive to spread out all over the world.

However that is a) currently not the case and b) Orr has the most dense web of events out of any zones right now.

I get that the DR has its merits, but with this patch I can’t but feel they took a step backwards rather than forwards in fine tuning it.

i sure wish you got more Karma and more than 1 silver as a lvl 80 for events.

Lumines.3916:

I’d be more than happy to move around the world, I take part in WvW all the time when my guildies are on and it’s really fun while gain a button of Karma. However, I hate WvW when it means following the zerg solo, it’s just not an enjoyable activity when you’re on your own.

This means I go back to PvE to get some karma going. If they actually made event rewards scale to your character’s level and not just your scaled level, that would be plenty incentive to spread out all over the world.

However that is a) currently not the case and b) Orr has the most dense web of events out of any zones right now.

I get that the DR has its merits, but with this patch I can’t but feel they took a step backwards rather than forwards in fine tuning it.

That’s because there is not enough content at the moment. Once ArenaNet begins releasing a lot more level 80 content, it will be a lot better for players. They will have more things to do and won’t complain as much about DR. And WvW will only continue to improve as time goes on.

might as well suggest they add loot tables(good ones) to Champion Giants. i like helping out lowbies, but getting white items, lvl 14 items or nothing really sucks.

fony.5102:

might as well suggest they add loot tables(good ones) to Champion Giants. i like helping out lowbies, but getting white items, lvl 14 items or nothing really sucks.

I agree as well. Champion and veteran mobs should drop better loot. They need to really distinguish loot.

yes, they need to give them a high chance of dropping a rare for lvl 40 and above players with a small chance for an exotic for lvl 60+.

one thing that was unanimous since the early beta for this game is that loot rewards were bad, they need to move on this and communicate it well.

Rewards (weapons, gear, karma, XP, coin) are not equal through the entire world when you are 80.

That’s the problem right there. I don’t care about (or maybe even favor) diminishing returns. People should get out of Orr and populate the world!

However, it should be possible to get level 80 gear in every zone (if you’ve reached level 80). Make the content harder by downscaling one or two more levels and then remove the differences in rewards.

It would be nice if a dev could tell us if this is being worked on.

to be fair, loot scaling does work. i got my exotic rifle in queensdale(lvl 76 exotic) and find many lvl 80 items daily, they’re just junky blues. i think they should just really tighten up the possible loot players can get. like make it so you can only get loot that’s exactly your level or one level below.

If Anet’s goal is to have players spread out, punishing players for not doing so isn’t going to work. Rewarding players that do, however, will work.

I’m old and grumpy; someone slaps my hand I wanna punch em in the face. Distract me with shinnies and I turn into a Scritt: “Shiny!”

I look at a lot of the content and wonder why they designed it certain ways.

Dungeons for example: I assumed they would have bosses drop unique items (ala GW1) or that each chest would have a piece of Dungeon Specific gear in it. Tokens would then be used to purchase the remaining pieces of the set the players couldn’t get to drop.
Of course, the “unique” pieces would be the hook to keep coming back – just as they were in GW1. – This is what I assumed would be the case. When I learned the dungeons were just a token farm… I lost all interest.

This same thinking applies to the Champions and Veteran mobs all over the game world. They reward the same karma and coin as the far faster events do; so stopping to help may be a limited (early game) enjoyment. Without the drops, many players will, and have already started, just ignoring them as they aren’t worth the time. Why hit up a big event that takes 10 minutes, when you can hit up a chain and complete 3 events in that same time frame? (time frame made up to make a point).

I’m level 80…and in my own experience, I get more level-appropriate rares (lvl 70-80) and other good drops in low-level zones than I do in the level 80 zones. I’m talking just straight gear dropping from mobs in the world. I also get low-level trash loot and crap gear, of course, and events do reward less karma / experience…but I can do events much faster because I am quite a bit more powerful…so I’m not sure it doesn’t even out. The only exotic I’ve ever had drop from a mob was in a low-level zone.

So…to be honest, I think the incentive is already there, people just don’t really understand it.

Also, there’s plenty of incentive to visit other zones that doesn’t involve loot. Exploration, jumping puzzles, zone event chains, helping out new players, and just all-around fun game play.

The “real” issue with DR is two-fold -
1) Nobody actually has any facts about it, and how it works, but they panic anyway, based on inconsistent anecdotal evidence.
2) Many players make no effort at all to understand the potential reasons for a DR system, and just assume the worst.

@Fozzik – Interesting. I’ve never gotten (not once) a level 80 drop in a non-level 70+ zone. And I’ve gotten 100% complete now.

… and jumping puzzles. Not a fan. I’m epically bad at judging distance though. So if it’s one of those that mean I go splat from a missed jump it’s a horrid gold sink for me… although a comedy scene for anyone that might be around me. lol

dimgl.4786:

Lumines.3916:

Not only what you said is true, but it’s plain for the eye to see that the DR system in place is simply TOO harsh that it’s affecting people not trying to farm karma, but trying to progress in a chain.

I got hit with DR just trying to cleanse the Cathedral of Silence because the event failed and had to do it again.

And this is what ArenaNet needs to work on. And it is what they will work on. But people need to be patient.

I’ve been patient, patience isn’t rewarded. Having endless hours to grind legendaries before the company starts penalizing players without offering a viable alternative is what’s rewarded, and it hurts. I’ve been playing every free minute on my quest for this lofty goal while juggling a demanding full time job and relationship, but I couldn’t complete it before they … what, decided it was going “too fast”? That’s just it, we don’t even know exactly what the point of this penalty is. If it really is to steer players away from grinding, then why aren’t they offering an alternative like they did with the reshaped dungeon rewards? Right now it’s just a slap on the wrist for not playing the way they want us to play.

The real issue is lack of communication. Not even addressing karma boosters right now.

Ye, ok, I guess it’s ok that Orr and WvW battlegrounds are transformed into 30 minute theme parks before DR kicks in and the players stop getting rewarded for their activities there. Obviously everyone who stays there for more than that is a bot. (hey, at least they know that Orr is badly designed and that only a bot would tolerate it for more than 30 minutes. They are also aware that bots are keen strategists and rule WvW)

I’d love to go to other areas but waypoint costs are too high. Make them free and I’ll be all over the place. Keep them this high and I’ll stay in cursed shore.

I agree, as a level 80 there is no incentive for me to go out to other zones and do DE’s as they give too low rewards to make it worth while.

Also I think how much Karma you get at level 80 should be increased to 1k to 2k, imo, if you have to do over 100 dynamic events ((becuase you get like 370 karma at level 80) some which are really freaking long) to get one piece of a culture set then something is wrong. That’s not just grinding, it’s stupid. :/

Edit: Wait… When did they switch the culture armor vendors from Karma to gold?

And this is what ArenaNet needs to work on. And it is what they will work on. But people need to be patient.

Patient!? It was ok last patch because there was a workaround! No they’ve made it even WORSE! Whta is patience going to do for us!?

fony.5102:

there is a problem with the current system: [b]Rewards (weapons, gear, karma, XP, coin) are not equal through the entire world when you are 80. Elite and veteran mobs don’t drop better loot. Events don’t scale to your level. That is the real problem.

Couldn’t agree more. Because of gear and traits, level eighties shouldn’t be able to get loot at their own level from regular enemies, but champions for sure and maybe veterans too should always drop loot at your real level, not your down-leveled number.

That would give everyone a reason to return to the wider world after hitting the cap, and it would be cool for lowbies to watch down-leveled guys in fancy gear take down the local champion.

The problem is that currently DR is based on Mob Name.

So how many zones from 70-80 have the exactly named mobs….answer all of them.

Chaning zones or doing event on the other side of the zone wont change a single thing

fony.5102:

The players on the forums and the subreddit complaining about deminishing returns are a vocal minority that have a problem of entitlement.

This statement really rubs me the wrong way. I do not see how complaining about diminishing returns implies that an individual has a problem of entitlement. Entitlements refer to rights, for instance do we have an entitlement to free health care? I do not think anyone has said that there is a right or a moral imperative to be given loot (or karma which is my gripe); however, this game is an entertainment service that people have paid for. As a customer who paid for this service, if I do not like how something is being done I do not think that expressing my displeasure amounts to a problem of entitlement.

just a copy/paste. not my words, though the general idea of making things more rewarding is what needs to happen instead of giving in to complaints about the short term problem or spending time creating systems to punish a few while affecting everyone else.

I understand why people don’t like the DR system but we should also agree that it’s not an issue that’s easy to fix.

The fastest way would of course be to shut down the DR system completely, but is that really the smartest choice? The bots are still here but that doesn’t mean they should be allowed to just take over.

Remember how everyone complained that Magg path wasn’t even tested when it was changed? Well what do you expect will happen if Anet just does a random change to the DR system because the community is rushing them? They don’t want to do mistakes on this one so just let them do their thing.

DR is a simpletons fix to a real problem which is why its not working! They need to crack the wallet and hire some people!

fony.5102:

Players only run into the diminishing return wall if they farm the same thing constantly. So why is ArenaNet suddenly the bad guy? They simply want you to move across the world, go into other areas and do the events there, the only issue is there is no incentive for a level 80 character to leave high end zones and do events around the world.

TL;DR: the problem is players need to have an incentive to move across the world, gear and weapons need to be equal so people only work for skins, not stats.

Regarding the bold section of the post: It says "there is no incentive for a level 80 character to leave high end zones and do events around the world.

The TL;DR also suggests that players need an incentive.

My question is, who is responsible for that lack of incentive? Do players merely need to motivate themselves to go to other places, or does ArenaNet need to provide that incentive by, for example, creating more level 80 zones for players to explore around. Or perhaps provide adequate rewards and compensation for traveling to lower level zones?

I ask because the post was, for me, ambiguous as to who was responsible for the lack of incentive. Is there a design flaw here or a mentality flaw?

Soulwatcher.2604:

DR is a simpletons fix to a real problem which is why its not working! They need to crack the wallet and hire some people!

Funny thing is that the code behind a diminishing returns system is not entirely bound to be easy to make, nor cheap. Additionally, it took them minimal amount of time to integrate it, only a few weeks after release, so that means that they gave quite an amount of money and manpower into its development.

So ye, let’s waste resourses on something that affects both players and bots, when they could easily use the same resources to bring the battle to the bots themselves.

Sounds fishy enough to at least think they had bigger goals than just reducing the bots. Even though I will give them the benefit of doubt.

Mars Hill.1542:

fony.5102:

Players only run into the diminishing return wall if they farm the same thing constantly. So why is ArenaNet suddenly the bad guy? They simply want you to move across the world, go into other areas and do the events there, the only issue is there is no incentive for a level 80 character to leave high end zones and do events around the world.

TL;DR: the problem is players need to have an incentive to move across the world, gear and weapons need to be equal so people only work for skins, not stats.

Regarding the bold section of the post: It says "there is no incentive for a level 80 character to leave high end zones and do events around the world.

The TL;DR also suggests that players need an incentive.

My question is, who is responsible for that lack of incentive? Do players merely need to motivate themselves to go to other places, or does ArenaNet need to provide that incentive by, for example, creating more level 80 zones for players to explore around. Or perhaps provide adequate rewards and compensation for traveling to lower level zones?

I ask because the post was, for me, ambiguous as to who was responsible for the lack of incentive. Is there a design flaw here or a mentality flaw?

it’s not black or white, but more of a sliding scale of rewarding vs entitlement. players will and do gravitate toward what they feel returns the most on their time invested. so going to force themselves to grind is what they do. that is partially(mostly) their own fault for sure, because there’s alot to do and see in the game no matter what level you are. the thinking that it must be strictly lvl 80 content is a self imposed limitation given the design of the game.

however, there’s no excuse on Anet’s part not to have fixed the minor, but horrible loot issues by launch and especially not to be visiibly acting on the crap loot rewards for so many events, mobs, etc. A champion mob is a boss, plain and simple and it should give boss worthy rewards. ALL champion mobs should drop a loot chest, ALL characters should have a limit as to how low/poor loot they can get(one to two levels below your level).

The real problem is that they introduced grind into a game that should not be about grinding. If you want a perfect set of armor, there should be a merchant that sells it at an affordable price. There isn’t, because rarity suddenly gets involved, and if you want to outfit yourself, ignoring aesthetics completely, it’s still a nightmarishly long grind to get full exotic armor, full exotic accessories, exotic weapons, outfitted with the correct runes. In GW1 this process would take about half a day at most.

I find the “entitlement” defenders are the actual problem, as they’re so used to bad MMOs that they think this system is somehow better. It isn’t. GW1 did it right. GW2 is a step backwards. The grind (and “entitlement”) should only stem from looks, not stats.

Got a Problem?

DReturns will fix it!

Trollface.jpeg

@Apos I highly doubt that they want to destroy their company and bleed players. Before DR this game was selling like hot cakes and sold out everywhere. I honestly think had they handled the bot problem the right way it would have continued to sell out.

Like I said DR is a simpletons fix to a real problem. They need to hire people who know what they are doing before the game tanks harder then the Titanic!

@ Plague: i have one of the rarest stat groups for gear and didn’t “grind” a single piece of it. Pow/Tough/Vit armor and weapons, bought with the tokens i have been accumulating since level 35 and the money/karma i had been building up since lvl 1.

most instances of grinding in the game are self imposed, and pitiful. like most people simply have a berserker/traveler/rampager stat set, and you can get full exotic EVERYTHING of such items in 7 minutes time after you hit lvl 80. travel to the right karma vendors, oh and press O to buy it.

in fact, the only reason to grind out anything, just like in guild wars is for the looks.

Soulwatcher.2604:

@Apos I highly doubt that they want to destroy their company and bleed players. Before DR this game was selling like hot cakes and sold out everywhere. I honestly think had they handled the bot problem the right way it would have continued to sell out.

Like I said DR is a simpletons fix to a real problem. They need to hire people who know what they are doing before the game tanks harder then the Titanic!

Ye,I know, just saying it wouldn’t surprise me even if they did. They wouldn’t be the first ones attempting something like that anyway.

For now, I’ll just assume that it was a bad decision. Now, whether they decide to keep that bad decision is up to them. Each action has its concequenses.

What about those (like myself) that want to max out all crafting. I’m getting headache and starting to get burned out on the game due to DR on crafting mats drops. If I was to buy GEMS then it would cost me at least $800 to buy the gold needs to buy the crafting mats off the TP.

fony.5102:

@ Plague: i have one of the rarest stat groups for gear and didn’t “grind” a single piece of it. Pow/Tough/Vit armor and weapons, bought with the tokens i have been accumulating since level 35 and the money/karma i had been building up since lvl 1.

most instances of grinding in the game are self imposed, and pitiful. like most people simply have a berserker/traveler/rampager stat set, and you can get full exotic EVERYTHING of such items in 7 minutes time after you hit lvl 80. travel to the right karma vendors, oh and press O to buy it.

in fact, the only reason to grind out anything, just like in guild wars is for the looks.

Assuming you want to grind karma for those (252,000 for a set alone, ignoring accessories or weapons). You also have to beat the respective DEs, which can take a long time if they are bugged, or you’re trying to match the stats (since they are scattered across all the karma vendors instead of one being limited to one stat line.) This also doesn’t include superior armor runes, which cost anywhere from 1 gold to almost 4 gold per rune. Unless you want to equip a worthless rune like Superior Krait, of course. And as far as I know, there are no max exotic accessories available via karma, just level 80 masterworks. So either way, no, not “seven minutes.”

DR’s – working as intended. gj ANet (serious).

fony.5102:

@ Plague: i have one of the rarest stat groups for gear and didn’t “grind” a single piece of it. Pow/Tough/Vit armor and weapons, bought with the tokens i have been accumulating since level 35 and the money/karma i had been building up since lvl 1.

most instances of grinding in the game are self imposed, and pitiful. like most people simply have a berserker/traveler/rampager stat set, and you can get full exotic EVERYTHING of such items in 7 minutes time after you hit lvl 80. travel to the right karma vendors, oh and press O to buy it.

in fact, the only reason to grind out anything, just like in guild wars is for the looks.

Humm….. maybe us 80’s should log in and stare at our toons in awe……. for a few hours and log out? Knowing my luck next patch you would get DR for standing in 1 spot too long!

nerva.7940:

DR’s – working as intended. gj ANet.

Yep were bot free now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh wait there still here…………..

Soulwatcher.2604:

nerva.7940:

DR’s – working as intended. gj ANet.

Yep were bot free now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh wait there still here…………..

^^
Exactly, There’s just more of them..

Botter 1: Hey I got 5 bots farming for me!
Botter 2: ANet just added a DR to drops.
Botter 1: Well poo.. I’ll just load up 20 more bots and combine their resources then auto cycle that group with another group of 20 bots.

dimgl.4786:

Lumines.3916:

Not only what you said is true, but it’s plain for the eye to see that the DR system in place is simply TOO harsh that it’s affecting people not trying to farm karma, but trying to progress in a chain.

I got hit with DR just trying to cleanse the Cathedral of Silence because the event failed and had to do it again.

And this is what ArenaNet needs to work on. And it is what they will work on. But people need to be patient.

Patience is fine, but they need to say something about the issue. You aren’t for sure they are going to change it, maybe it’s intended that you can’t do 1 chain event in Orr without hitting both Karma/Loot DR? Since they haven’t said a word on the issue, nobody knows for sure.

Try to do events for a straight hour, doesn’t matter what map, what event, what mob type. If you don’t hit DR and get severely reduced karma/loot, you are doing something wrong. Plenty of legitimate players are experiencing DR in both loot and dynamic event rewards just from playing the game for an hour. Yet we still see pure silence on the issue. I’ve accepted that DR will be part of this game, but it should only affect people farming the exact same place/mob/event/etc, not people who are going around and playing the game like so many people on these forums seem to just disregard…

Plague.5329:

fony.5102:

@ Plague: i have one of the rarest stat groups for gear and didn’t “grind” a single piece of it. Pow/Tough/Vit armor and weapons, bought with the tokens i have been accumulating since level 35 and the money/karma i had been building up since lvl 1.

most instances of grinding in the game are self imposed, and pitiful. like most people simply have a berserker/traveler/rampager stat set, and you can get full exotic EVERYTHING of such items in 7 minutes time after you hit lvl 80. travel to the right karma vendors, oh and press O to buy it.

in fact, the only reason to grind out anything, just like in guild wars is for the looks.

Assuming you want to grind karma for those (252,000 for a set alone, ignoring accessories or weapons). You also have to beat the respective DEs, which can take a long time if they are bugged, or you’re trying to match the stats (since they are scattered across all the karma vendors instead of one being limited to one stat line.) This also doesn’t include superior armor runes, which cost anywhere from 1 gold to almost 4 gold per rune. Unless you want to equip a worthless rune like Superior Krait, of course. And as far as I know, there are no max exotic accessories available via karma, just level 80 masterworks. So either way, no, not “seven minutes.”

what’s this “all from karma” straw man you’re arguing against? forgot the little press Othing? ya know, the trade post, which goes hand in hand with crafting btw.

you’ve apparently ignored the part of my post you could not pick apart or even pretend to argue against. the majority of guild wars 2 players have gear that is easily acquired from all sources of gear acquisition on the way to 80. you can have a full exotic set of gear by 80 from just the karma, money and tokens you have got up until then. the only exception i know of is pow/vit/tough gear, which still is not much of a “grind” at 80 if you’ve been running explorable modes or done lots of WvWas you’ve leveled.

i mean, i guess you could grind for mats to make pearl weapons, legendaries or mystic items…but that’s grinding for the looks, because those exact stats are easy to come by elsewhere.

Plague.5329:

fony.5102:

@ Plague: i have one of the rarest stat groups for gear and didn’t “grind” a single piece of it. Pow/Tough/Vit armor and weapons, bought with the tokens i have been accumulating since level 35 and the money/karma i had been building up since lvl 1.

most instances of grinding in the game are self imposed, and pitiful. like most people simply have a berserker/traveler/rampager stat set, and you can get full exotic EVERYTHING of such items in 7 minutes time after you hit lvl 80. travel to the right karma vendors, oh and press O to buy it.

in fact, the only reason to grind out anything, just like in guild wars is for the looks.

Assuming you want to grind karma for those (252,000 for a set alone, ignoring accessories or weapons). You also have to beat the respective DEs, which can take a long time if they are bugged, or you’re trying to match the stats (since they are scattered across all the karma vendors instead of one being limited to one stat line.) This also doesn’t include superior armor runes, which cost anywhere from 1 gold to almost 4 gold per rune. Unless you want to equip a worthless rune like Superior Krait, of course. And as far as I know, there are no max exotic accessories available via karma, just level 80 masterworks. So either way, no, not “seven minutes.”

what’s this “all from karma” straw man you’re arguing against? forgot the little press O thing? ya know, the trade post. i got two sets of runes and accessories now, two sets from there and i don’t spend hours farming.

you’ve apparently ignored the part of my post you could not pick apart or even pretend to argue against and payed up the karma vendor issue for all it’s worth what with the “it’s not in one spot” thing. the majority of guild wars 2 players have gear that is easily acquired from all sources of gear acquisition on the way to 80. you can have a full exotic set of gear by 80 from just the karma, money and tokens you have got up until then. the only exception i know of is pow/vit/tough gear, which still is not much of a “grind” at 80 if you’ve been running explorable modes or done lots of WvWas you’ve leveled.

i mean, i guess you could grind for mats to make pearl weapons, legendaries or mystic items…but that’s grinding for the looks, because those exact stats are easy to come by elsewhere.

really tell me, what are all the people in full rampagers exotics with no plan to change spec grinding for?