Guild Wars 2

Agemnon.4608:

Ayrilana.1396:

Agemnon.4608:

Ayrilana.1396:

Garrisyl.7402:

where prices were artificially inflated due to people buying them with real money through currency exchange. This put players who just played the game without spending tons of real money at a significant disavantage.

Please prove this.

I converted some gems to gold in order to buy legendary mats when I made mine three years ago. Back then gems to gold conversion was abysmal so I didn’t even do much of it for icy runestones just T6 mostly.

I went and edited my post. I accidentally cut off the first part of their sentence I was quoting and then I bolded the part that I wanted them to prove.

Just because there’s the option to purchase gold with gems, doesn’t mean that high prices for some items are caused by that. The poster was arguing the opposite which was why I wanted them to prove their statement. They completely disregarded that the price was determined by the supply (e.g. RNG and cost for mats used to MF) and the demand for that particular precursor.

Think of it this way: if you farm for powerful blood (Bloodtide Coast didn’t exist back when I got my legendary) and other T6 long enough you will eventually get some. I used that logic to win my precursor from the forge. I had level 400 huntsman so I can continually forge rare level 80 shortbows and mystic forge them.

However, due to the relative rarity of T6 mats it makes RMT a very attractive option at least to meet the criteria halfway. You will get some T6, but not 250 in a reasonable time.

The ability to acquire 250 of each T6 has nothing to do with precursors though. Also compared to back then, we have the laurels that can be converted to T6 where you get like 165 or so every 28 days simply for logging in.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Garrisyl.7402:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Did anyone actually expect the precursor crafting to be fast, easy or cheap? its an option. Buy, RNG or craft. They reasonably should be about the same cost in gold or time to get or one way will be used and the others ignored.

I have been waiting for this feature since all the broken promises in 2013, when precursors first starting breaking the 300-400 gold mark. Back then they specifically stated that they were equally worried as the playerbase about the precursor market. Nowadays many precursors are 1000g+, and suddenly they want to retain the precursor value? What happened to being worried about precursor prices when they were 300g?

Precursor crafting wasn’t only about an alternative way to create precursors, but also about regulating the outrageous gem-to-gold-inflated precursor prices.

Obviously Precursor should still have a major value attached to them, but if crafted precursors aren’t significantly cheaper than bought precursors, then what’s the point?

Some people don’t like just buying it. It feels empty to them to only farm gold and then hand it over to someone else who was RNG lucky. They would rather craft than that.

And price, let’s take an extreme example to demonstrate my point. What if it only took 100 gold to craft? Even if there is a cooldown of 3 months to get. If I could spend only 100 gold in mats, I would. That affects the market. Suddenly all those mats that could have been used to make it, and aren’t, are not worth as much. Their prices start dropping. People who were buying mithril and T5 mats to gamble on rares will reconsider. Would they rather wait and get it cheap or make rares and gamble? Many will decide to wait and will stop buying mithril and T5 to gamble.

It’s only if all 3 pathways are equivalent in cost (gold or time) that all 3 pathways will be used. If one is better, then that one will be the one taken and it will effect the market for all the mats.

Its not just the gold cost as well. If farming 1k gold turns out to be easier and far more time efficient then completing the recipe + farming the mats, then why go for the crafting ? There is no enjoyment in prolonged farming of any kind, and gold farming is actually fairly flexible and can be achieved via multitude of ways which breaks up the monotony. So again, if the crafting process is overall more tedious + takes longer + same monetary value, then why craft ?

People wanted crafting options to relieve, not accentuate the above mentioned problems in this game, and this certainly appears to fail at that.

I think you better grind for gold than precursor. Easier and better task. After precursor grind you still need to grind for 3 other gifts.

Why craft? It’s the only way to obtain ascended gear.

Agemnon.4608:

Why craft? It’s the only guaranteed way to obtain ascended gear.

Fixed it for you.

Wanze.8410:

Garrisyl.7402:

The problem was the RNG element which forced players to buy precursors on the TP, where prices were artificially inflated due to people buying them with real money through currency exchange.

This is not true, most precursors reflect the value of materials (mithril/elder/t5 fine mats) that someone has to use in order to craft enough rares to forge a precursor on average, or the value of the corresponding rares on the tp.

In fact, the cheaper precursors are offered below forging value atm.

Wanze, your supply side bias is showing. Your description of the price difference among legacy precursors highlights the role of demand, not the role of supply or the cost of production. How players generate their demand potential is important. Where currency enters the marketplace is also very important, and I agree with Garrisyl that RMT impacts luxury goods like precursors first and most persistently.

That being said, the new method will likely distribute the effects of RMT more broadly than it does now.

edit: The new method may even decrease the overall demand for gold.

Ayrilana.1396:

Garrisyl.7402:

where prices were artificially inflated due to people buying them with real money through currency exchange. This put players who just played the game without spending tons of real money at a significant disavantage.

Please prove this.

Just because there’s the option to purchase gold with gems, doesn’t mean that high prices for some items are caused by that. The poster was arguing the opposite which was why I wanted them to prove their statement. They completely disregarded that the price was determined by the supply (e.g. RNG and cost for mats used to MF) and the demand for that particular precursor.

What you are asking me to prove is just as obvious as it is impossible to prove without access to the data. There are tons of people who convert money to buy precursors, I personally know several of them. I would go as for as saying it’s probably the main reason people convert gems to gold. No one is gonna convert gems to buy an omnomberry bar.

Obviously the precursor price is determined by supply and demand. In this case, the higher the precursor price, the more people are willing to pay for t5 mats to try their luck in the mystic forge instead. The price of t5 materials is inherently tied to the price of the most popular precursors, so inflated precursor prices mean inflated t5 prices.

Precursor prices would still be high without gem conversion, just not as high

Precursor scavenger hunt / Collection will keep prices the same? 1000g + for a precursor is garbage and they like it that way.

I just finished Quip I think I’ll call that good enough.

They want to keep up pre prices on the TP but I need the Chaos gun it’s 500g while other Pre’s are over 1kg and the underwater ones are laughably low.

This process may be great for making a GS but seems to be a much pricier option for some of the cheaper pre’s. This does nothing but fill the world with more legendary GS’s to which we have quite a number already in circulation. It also shoot’s the mats up breaking the market for everything one else.

Also 400 geodes!? If that’s how many Geodes they want I’m afraid to know the other mats….

Garrisyl.7402:

What you are asking me to prove is just as obvious as it is impossible to prove without access to the data. There are tons of people who convert money to buy precursors, I personally know several of them.

Again, without any proof all that you’re stating is an opinion rather than fact. Your statement that “prices were artificially inflated due to people buying them with real money through currency exchange” is nothing more than an opinion. You’re disregarding how many precursors are created each day and the rising gems->gold rate which you would think would not be rising so much with so many people converting gems to gold.

Garrisyl.7402:

Obviously the precursor price is determined by supply and demand. In this case, the higher the precursor price, the more people are willing to pay for t5 mats to try their luck in the mystic forge instead. The price of t5 materials is inherently tied to the price of the most popular precursors, so inflated precursor prices mean inflated t5 prices.

Or you have it backwards and it’s the T5 materials being one of the factors that determines the price of precursors.

Doam.8305:

Also 400 geodes!? If that’s how many Geodes they want I’m afraid to know the other mats….

The 400 geodes is very easy to get. Join a map when one of the guilds are sponsoring a T6 run, and you’ll have most of that in the course of two hours.

Doam.8305:

This process may be great for making a GS but seems to be a much pricier option for some of the cheaper pre’s. This does nothing but fill the world with more legendary GS’s to which we have quite a number already in circulation. It also shoot’s the mats up breaking the market for everything one else.

I do hope there is some sort of balance for the cheaper precursors and not make every precursor cost the equal of Dusk.

Read about an optional way to obtain precursors in HoT.
Hoped for some hard, challenging “quests”, preferably instanced, granting you a one-time-only acc-bound precursor.
Read about raids coming an hope was growing.
Now I read all this about precursor crafting and I’m back to “screw it, who needs leggies anyway…”.

Seriously, as long as it’s possible that some brainless “all I can do is AA and never dodge” botlike player can get a pre from yellow creatures in starter zones, while players doing every challenge possible get drenched in blues and greens, the system is just terribad.

Nope, Polly doesn’t like that cookie.

Ayrilana.1396:

Garrisyl.7402:

What you are asking me to prove is just as obvious as it is impossible to prove without access to the data. There are tons of people who convert money to buy precursors, I personally know several of them.

Again, without any proof all that you’re stating is an opinion rather than fact. Your statement that “prices were artificially inflated due to people buying them with real money through currency exchange” is nothing more than an opinion. You’re disregarding how many precursors are created each day and the rising gems->gold rate which you would think would not be rising so much with so many people converting gems to gold.

Garrisyl.7402:

Obviously the precursor price is determined by supply and demand. In this case, the higher the precursor price, the more people are willing to pay for t5 mats to try their luck in the mystic forge instead. The price of t5 materials is inherently tied to the price of the most popular precursors, so inflated precursor prices mean inflated t5 prices.

Or you have it backwards and it’s the T5 materials being one of the factors that determines the price of precursors.

Doam.8305:

Also 400 geodes!? If that’s how many Geodes they want I’m afraid to know the other mats….

The 400 geodes is very easy to get. Join a map when one of the guilds are sponsoring a T6 run, and you’ll have most of that in the course of two hours.

Their, and my, opinion is based on solid assumptions. Gold will go where there is the greatest demand for gold first and then it will propagate. The weakness of your argument should be obvious to anyone with a remote understanding of economics.

Are you really taking the position that the quantity of precursors created in the MF has nothing to do with demand? Are you really going to look at the exchange trend and insist players aren’t exchanging gems for gold?

This discussion is derailing this thread and if important to anyone, should be moved to another thread.

Psientist.6437:

Wanze.8410:

Garrisyl.7402:

The problem was the RNG element which forced players to buy precursors on the TP, where prices were artificially inflated due to people buying them with real money through currency exchange.

This is not true, most precursors reflect the value of materials (mithril/elder/t5 fine mats) that someone has to use in order to craft enough rares to forge a precursor on average, or the value of the corresponding rares on the tp.

In fact, the cheaper precursors are offered below forging value atm.

Wanze, your supply side bias is showing. Your description of the price difference among legacy precursors highlights the role of demand, not the role of supply or the cost of production. How players generate their demand potential is important. Where currency enters the marketplace is also very important, and I agree with Garrisyl that RMT impacts luxury goods like precursors first and most persistently.

That being said, the new method will likely distribute the effects of RMT more broadly than it does now.

edit: The new method may even decrease the overall demand for gold.

First of all, neither Garrisyl nor me were talking about RMT´s but the currency exchange.

And people, who buy gems with real cash to buy their precursors cant be responsible for inflated prices because they dont inject any gold into the economy, they actually take some gold out of it. And if prices of some precursors should spike temporarily (because 10-20 people buy the same one) professional forgers will add new supply because forging them with bought rares or crafted ones with t5 mats will yield good profit.

By farming huge amounts of mithril, elder wood and t5 fine mats for rare inscriptions, the player base basically farms alot of precursors every day, professional forgers only re-distribute those ressources to those precursors which yield the highest profit atm, which are usually those that are in demand atm.

If prices for precursors should go back to 500g, mithril, elder wood, t5 fine mats as well as the corresponding rare weapons for expensive precursors will also lose 50% of their value as forging precursors is the biggest sink for those.

Those mats make up a big part of the overall loot value of lvl 80 players, so the average g/hour will go down as well, so it doesnt really matter that pres only cost 500g now, Casual Joe still needs the same time to farm the gold to buy one.

I stand by my point, expensive precursors reflect the value of the materials that are needed to forge one, the cheaper precursors are traded below forging value because supply from rng drops (from mobs or the forge) is higher than demand.

And prices are not inflated.

Wanze.8410:

Psientist.6437:

Wanze.8410:

Garrisyl.7402:

The problem was the RNG element which forced players to buy precursors on the TP, where prices were artificially inflated due to people buying them with real money through currency exchange.

This is not true, most precursors reflect the value of materials (mithril/elder/t5 fine mats) that someone has to use in order to craft enough rares to forge a precursor on average, or the value of the corresponding rares on the tp.

In fact, the cheaper precursors are offered below forging value atm.

Wanze, your supply side bias is showing. Your description of the price difference among legacy precursors highlights the role of demand, not the role of supply or the cost of production. How players generate their demand potential is important. Where currency enters the marketplace is also very important, and I agree with Garrisyl that RMT impacts luxury goods like precursors first and most persistently.

That being said, the new method will likely distribute the effects of RMT more broadly than it does now.

edit: The new method may even decrease the overall demand for gold.

First of all, neither Garrisyl nor me were talking about RMT´s but the currency exchange.

And people, who buy gems with real cash to buy their precursors cant be responsible for inflated prices because they dont inject any gold into the economy, they actually take some gold out of it. And if prices of some precursors should spike temporarily (because 10-20 people buy the same one) professional forgers will add new supply because forging them with bought rares or crafted ones with t5 mats will yield good profit.

By farming huge amounts of mithril, elder wood and t5 fine mats for rare inscriptions, the player base basically farms alot of precursors every day, professional forgers only re-distribute those ressources to those precursors which yield the highest profit atm, which are usually those that are in demand atm.

If prices for precursors should go back to 500g, mithril, elder wood, t5 fine mats as well as the corresponding rare weapons for expensive precursors will also lose 50% of their value as forging precursors is the biggest sink for those.

Those mats make up a big part of the overall loot value of lvl 80 players, so the average g/hour will go down as well, so it doesnt really matter that pres only cost 500g now, Casual Joe still needs the same time to farm the gold to buy one.

I stand by my point, expensive precursors reflect the value of the materials that are needed to forge one, the cheaper precursors are traded below forging value because supply from rng drops (from mobs or the forge) is higher than demand.

This. I’d only add in that ofcorse professional precursor crafters have a profit fee. So yes, if you buy a precursor on the TP you will pay more than it would take you to forge it ON AVERAGE.

RMT, gem to gold, etc. are minor factors in this huge of an economy. Precursor prices are affected directly and most strong by:

- price of base materials
- conversion rate of base materials into precursor (aka, mf chance to “get lucky”)
- direct drop rate
- supply/demand

Going by this list, as Wanze mentioned, precursors below a certain amount of gold price are undervalued heavily. Then again, the supply for those is pure drop rates and rng mystic forge(accident result in mf by putting in random weapons). No one is actively crafting for trident precursor for example.

On the overall note of crafting. I never expected them to drop the price a lot, maybe a bit on the expensive precursors. Anet have always stated that precursors should have some value.

I think many people are underestimating how much more rewarding it can be to complete small steps towards a goal. Seeing your gold slowly increase is not as rewarding for most players as seeing small steps get completed. The new system, in a way, addresses another problem that many have with GW2. It gives more concrete goals instead or arbitrary ones.

Hence I do believe some people will do the colletions, even if they end up being more expensive than buying the precursor off the TP.

Cyninja.2954:

Hence I do believe some people will do the colletions, even if they end up being more expensive than buying the precursor off the TP.

I think it will take a long time, until we see prices for old precursors being affected by those collections, not this year, at least. First of all, i think there will be enough timegates, so it will take a couple of months, until the first people get their pres crafted. Not even sure, if there will be a significant portion of players going for old pres first anyways. Most vets will take the mastery for the new legendaries, and most players will probably choose other masteries first, in order to be able to advance in the jungle of maguuma.

I wouldnt be surprised, if you cant complete the collections for the new pres without maxing a couple of other masteries first, in order to unlock places, events and vendors that are needed for it.

Wanze.8410:

Cyninja.2954:

Hence I do believe some people will do the colletions, even if they end up being more expensive than buying the precursor off the TP.

I think it will take a long time, until we see prices for old precursors being affected by those collections, not this year, at least. First of all, i think there will be enough timegates, so it will take a couple of months, until the first people get their pres crafted. Not even sure, if there will be a significant portion of players going for old pres first anyways. Most vets will take the mastery for the new legendaries, and most players will probably choose other masteries first, in order to be able to advance in the jungle of maguuma.

I wouldnt be surprised, if you cant complete the collections for the new pres without maxing a couple of other masteries first, in order to unlock places, events and vendors that are needed for it.

True, I was just trying to comment on some people arguing that people would not do the collections if they are more expensive.

Wanze.8410:

And people, who buy gems with real cash to buy their precursors cant be responsible for inflated prices because they dont inject any gold into the economy, they actually take some gold out of it.

If someone creates 1000g out of thin air by buying and converting gems, how is he not injecting money? This is not a rethoric question, I know that you know the economy fairly well, so I’m curious what your thought process on this is.

Wanze.8410:

And if prices of some precursors should spike temporarily (because 10-20 people buy the same one) professional forgers will add new supply because forging them with bought rares or crafted ones with t5 mats will yield good profit.

Until the surge in mystic forging leads to an inevitable rise in prices for t5 materials until the average forging cost again reflects the new, higher precursor price.

Wanze.8410:

If prices for precursors should go back to 500g, mithril, elder wood, t5 fine mats as well as the corresponding rare weapons for expensive precursors will also lose 50% of their value as forging precursors is the biggest sink for those.

And if prices for precursors go up 500g due to more people buying them with real money, t5 prices would also go up by 50%, thus being indirectly inflated.

Wanze.8410:

I stand by my point, expensive precursors reflect the value of the materials that are needed to forge one

Yes, and of course you are right when you say this. But you seem to ignore that it works both ways. The value of materials needed to forge one will always go up when the precursor price goes up. Because of this, the fact that precursor prices always reflect the material value to forge one, can not be a valid argument against real-money buyers inflating precursor prices.

Garrisyl.7402:

Wanze.8410:

And people, who buy gems with real cash to buy their precursors cant be responsible for inflated prices because they dont inject any gold into the economy, they actually take some gold out of it.

If someone creates 1000g out of thin air by buying and converting gems, how is he not injecting money? This is not a rethoric question, I know that you know the economy fairly well, so I’m curious what your thought process on this is.

Wanze.8410:

And if prices of some precursors should spike temporarily (because 10-20 people buy the same one) professional forgers will add new supply because forging them with bought rares or crafted ones with t5 mats will yield good profit.

Until the surge in mystic forging leads to an inevitable rise in prices for t5 materials until the average forging cost again reflects the new, higher precursor price.

Wanze.8410:

If prices for precursors should go back to 500g, mithril, elder wood, t5 fine mats as well as the corresponding rare weapons for expensive precursors will also lose 50% of their value as forging precursors is the biggest sink for those.

And if prices for precursors go up 500g due to more people buying them with real money, t5 prices would also go up by 50%, thus being indirectly inflated.

Wanze.8410:

I stand by my point, expensive precursors reflect the value of the materials that are needed to forge one

Yes, and of course you are right when you say this. But you seem to ignore that it works both ways. The value of materials needed to forge one will always go up when the precursor price goes up. Because of this, the fact that precursor prices always reflect the material value to forge one, can not be a valid argument against real-money buyers inflating precursor prices.

The 1000g someone buys with gems were earned by someone else, who put them into the gem exchange, so those 1000g have already been in the economy and were not created out of thin air (-15% exchange tax).

With your other points you are right, it swings both ways, as prices of pres are tied to the value of t5 mats but thats the beauty of it, as those mats make up a good amount of the loot alongside rare weapons. If prices rise for pres, everybody earns more gold per hour in material value. Basically every mithril ore, every elder wood log and t5 fine mat, is a small step towards a precursor, even though its not really visible to the average player because you need huge amounts of it and there is rng involved, if you forge yourself instead of going the steady route of selling all your mats until you have enough gold to buy one (in which case you usually also pay the labour costs for the forger and his profit margin).

If you want to point a finger at someone for inflated precursor prices, you can point them at dungeon runners because thats the content that by far creates the most gold (from direct rewards) out of thin air and its a consistent gold faucet.

If precursor prices should lose 50% in value, dungeon runners will profit the most from it because they only have to run half as much dungeons to be able to afford one, while the average player, who earns most of his wealth by selling loot on the tp, will see a significant decrease in income, so he cant really take advantage of lower precursor prices.

Garrisyl.7402:

Wanze.8410:

And people, who buy gems with real cash to buy their precursors cant be responsible for inflated prices because they dont inject any gold into the economy, they actually take some gold out of it.

If someone creates 1000g out of thin air by buying and converting gems, how is he not injecting money? This is not a rethoric question, I know that you know the economy fairly well, so I’m curious what your thought process on this is.

Dear god, read up on how the gem exchange works https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Currency_exchange

Once you have educated yourself, come back and stop spouting such nonsens. None of the gold in the exchange is created “out of thin air”…

Garrisyl.7402:

Wanze.8410:

And if prices of some precursors should spike temporarily (because 10-20 people buy the same one) professional forgers will add new supply because forging them with bought rares or crafted ones with t5 mats will yield good profit.

Until the surge in mystic forging leads to an inevitable rise in prices for t5 materials until the average forging cost again reflects the new, higher precursor price.

Which in turn means drops and gathering become more valuable, thus more gold is distributed to the average player. Your problem was?

Garrisyl.7402:

Wanze.8410:

If prices for precursors should go back to 500g, mithril, elder wood, t5 fine mats as well as the corresponding rare weapons for expensive precursors will also lose 50% of their value as forging precursors is the biggest sink for those.

And if prices for precursors go up 500g due to more people buying them with real money, t5 prices would also go up by 50%, thus being indirectly inflated.

And prices for rares would increase by 50% too, same as gathered and salvaged materials. Again, where is your problem?

Garrisyl.7402:

Wanze.8410:

I stand by my point, expensive precursors reflect the value of the materials that are needed to forge one

Yes, and of course you are right when you say this. But you seem to ignore that it works both ways. The value of materials needed to forge one will always go up when the precursor price goes up. Because of this, the fact that precursor prices always reflect the material value to forge one, can not be a valid argument against real-money buyers inflating precursor prices.

Your entire argument is based on a flawed assumption. The assumption being that converting gems to gold creates gold out of thin air.

Educate yourself and understand how the exchange works beyond clicking 2 buttons. The actual process behind it.

Your understanding and thus your deduction is flawed.

EDIT: exchange link for clarification and correction

Psientist.6437:

Their, and my, opinion is based on solid assumptions. Gold will go where there is the greatest demand for gold first and then it will propagate. The weakness of your argument should be obvious to anyone with a remote understanding of economics.

Uh huh. Gold going to where there’s the greatest demand has nothing to do with whether precursors prices are artificially inflated or not. All it shows is that you don’t have a remote understanding of economics.

Psientist.6437:

Are you really taking the position that the quantity of precursors created in the MF has nothing to do with demand? Are you really going to look at the exchange trend and insist players aren’t exchanging gems for gold?

I never said that precursors created in the MF had nothing to do with demand. That’s something that you decided to make up on your own. Nowhere did I say that players were not exchanging gems for gold. Perhaps you should read the posts completely so you don’t miss something or maybe just don’t make up arguments and claim that they were mine.

Garrisyl.7402:

Wanze.8410:

And if prices of some precursors should spike temporarily (because 10-20 people buy the same one) professional forgers will add new supply because forging them with bought rares or crafted ones with t5 mats will yield good profit.

Until the surge in mystic forging leads to an inevitable rise in prices for t5 materials until the average forging cost again reflects the new, higher precursor price.

You’re assuming that there’s a constant stream of players buying gold for a particular precursor. At the rate that it would take to realistically impact precursor prices through buying gold, the gem->gold rate would look much different than it does now. The most impact you would see from those buying gold is a small, temporary blip.

Cyninja.2954:

Once you have educated yourself, come back and stop spouting such nonsens.

Once you are mature enough to lead an argument without resorting to a derogatory attitude the second you find a flaw in someone else’s statement, come back.

Cyninja.2954:

Your entire argument is based on a flawed assumption. The assumption being that converting gems to gold creates gold out of thin air.

Not at all. It was part of my assumption, but not it’s entire basis. Gem conversion still artificially channels wealth from all over the game to a small number of items, and causes their prices to rise more than would be the case without gem conversion.

Garrisyl.7402:

Not at all. It was part of my assumption, but not it’s entire basis. Gem conversion still artificially channels wealth from all over the game to a small number of items, and causes their prices to rise more than would be the case without gem conversion.

this is true whenever a precursor is bought from the tp, the gold needed to purchase it is usually collected from all over the place, it doesnt matter if someone got the gold from gems or farmed it in game.

Their price is rising due to demand, not because of the gem exchange.

If the gem exchange wouldnt exist, prices for precursors wouldnt look any different.

Garrisyl.7402:

Cyninja.2954:

Once you have educated yourself, come back and stop spouting such nonsens.

Once you are mature enough to lead an argument without resorting to a derogatory attitude the second you find a flaw in someone else’s statement, come back.

Cyninja.2954:

Your entire argument is based on a flawed assumption. The assumption being that converting gems to gold creates gold out of thin air.

Not at all. It was part of my assumption, but not it’s entire basis. Gem conversion still artificially channels wealth from all over the game to a small number of items, and causes their prices to rise more than would be the case without gem conversion.

I will do so once you show a minimum understanding of how the gem exchange works and what part it plays in this economy.

I’m not sure what your beef with people buying gems with real life money is. You seem to harbor a very negativ attitude towards them. I’ll leave it at this, if it wasn’t for people buying gems and converting them to gold, one of GW2 main benefits (people being able to play free of charge and able to get anything ingame without having to pay real life money) would not exist.

The fact that the gem exchange does, or does not funnel funds is a secondary effect to the supply and demand function. Where, as was pointed out, it does not matter if the gold was farmed or exchanged.

On the contrary, going through the exchange nets you exchange penalties which would in turn keep the price of the precursor lower. The main driving forces of inflation are gold generation through dungeons and other actual “gold out of thin air” aspects. The exchange has nothing to do with them except being on the receiving end of inflation.

Neural.1824:

People keep changing the definition of grind basically daily it seems.

Grind = anything you feel you need to do because of the outcome but for which you get no pleasure or enjoyment from the activity itself. Whether that’s doing the same activity a thousand times or a thousand different activities once each is neither here nor there.

Only the person doing the activities in question can say whether or not its a “grind” to do them because the defining factor is whether or not that person is enjoying doing them or not. Some people are going to have fun completing these massive shopping/scavenger/quest lists and others are going to hate every moment.

Personally I’m having nothing to do with any of it. Exotics have been perfectly good enough for me for three years and I can’t see any sign that that is likely to change in HoT.

what’s the point im going to buy it cuz 700 gold + more things to do for t1/t2/t3
100% better buy one and im sure the pre prices will rocket now im going to buy my dawn for 750 or w8 and buy it for 1k gold later :v

At the start i want to say, that i have no clue about economics and especilly the ingameeconomie. But my head has produced the following scenario:

1. You need t7 mats for certain parts of the pre-collection, for t7 you need t2-t5 mats and because people want things as fast as possible, they tend to buy mats, so all across t2-t5 and t7 mats will (maybe) increse in price

2. The incresed prices of the mats will (maybe) get more people to farm mats (because they are profitable), so the mass of mats will increse too (i hope you can understand what i wanted to say)

3. over a longtermlook the price of mats will stabilize maybe at the same value like today, or only slightly higher

I know its a really simple kind of view, but what do you think, how possible is such a scenario?

About the collections itself. I am really happy because they seem not to have (so far) included items who are based on rng. All of the shown things can be optained trough gaming, gathering, visiting and so on. Thats exactly what i wanted: to work towards an item/pre.

The only salt on top off this sweet cake are the complainers. I know everybody has his own opinion and its good this way, but its saddens me to see so much egoism in the complains. Its a huge gaming community with a huge number of individuals, so everything anet is doing, there will always be people who are not satisfied. But why must those people trample on the opinions from others? Why are so less comments like: “Its not my thing, because of ?!?, but i am happy about those who wanted ?!?”. No, its most of the time: “I don´t like ?!?, change that, (and mostly on top) all others are wrong, i am the only right” I know a part of this is only human, but on the other side most of the players are adults and should “controll there human natur” and be open, rational and friendly… ohoh, i lost the path… let it be the blabberbla of an sleepy guy at nightshift and move on

RMT is a loaded term and I should be more careful about using it. There is a big (not in-game economic though) difference between a game developer selling their in-game currency and a black market seller.

If a currency exchange is going to be employed then one that preferentially impacts the cost of luxury goods is not bad for the game, especially if there are many ways for a player to remain relevant without spending the currency being exchanged.

The currency exchange extracts gold with a low probability of being spent in-game and transforms it into gold that has a high probability of being spent in-game. In other words a player who exchanges gold for gems is not spending that gold on in game items and therefore that player has no effect on the price of in-game goods. A player who exchanges gems for gold is going to spend that gold in-game and impact the cost of in-game goods.

The existence of the currency exchange increases the supply of gold available to be spent on in-game items. Players farm gold for the specific purpose of spending on gems.
This is gold that is now available to be spent in-game that would not have been created without the existence of the currency exchange.

In my apparently uneducated opinion, a player exchanging gems for gold will preferentially spend that gold on in-game goods that require the most time in-game to acquire. Precursors take a long time to acquire. Again in my humble, ill-informed opinion, the question of whether the currency exchange impacts luxury goods more than non-luxury goods is a question of how much. More than a blip I wager.

If crafting the precursor costs as much as buying it, what’s the point? Most people wanted precursor crafting as an alternative to paying a ton of gold, not the same gold grind with a happy face on it. Did Anet ignore the hundreds of threads about precursor prices?

In theory the over-all costs should go down with HoT because of things like map rewards…in theory

Stinja.9612:

In theory the over-all costs should go down with HoT because of things like map rewards…in theory

Yes, mid- to longterm if said map rewards are beneficial to the economy and sufficient (I’m personally split on this. Going by Silverwastes I’d say they will be, going by some other recent additions to the game I’m not so sure).

Shortterm a spike might happen here or there when people rush to the TP to get the last few ingredients, items, w/e and the care for pricing is reduced.

This was clearly visible when ascended weapon crafting and armor crafting were added into the game. Due to the nature of time-gated content added and the sharp increase in demand, prices skyrocketed. The question now is, have enough players prepared and will a similar demand occure once HoT goes live.

Wanze.8410:

this is true whenever a precursor is bought from the tp, the gold needed to purchase it is usually collected from all over the place, it doesnt matter if someone got the gold from gems or farmed it in game.

Yes, but collecting it alone takes more effort and time than taking it from a large group of players in an instant. Gem conversion enables precursor buying to a group of players that otherwise wouldn’t be willing or able to commit to buying a precursor. More potential buyers leads to higher prices.

In addition, the money from the group you are “taking” from, was not intended for buying precursors from their side. Through currency exchange you are re-purposing and effectively re-using their money.

Example: 10 people farm and collect money, which they convert to gems to buy makeover kits. Their effort and money has now yielded them a reward. Along comes player X, who spends real money on gems and receives the gold that the 10 players collected. He then spends that gold on a precursor. This results in

1) One effort yielded two rewards. However, this does not cause general inflation, since the rewards the first group received were account bound goods with no effect on the economy, and the total amount of gold actually decreased a little through taxes. (This might be different with black lion keys since they yield tradeable goods, but that’s besides the point)

2) Gold that was never intended for precursor buying was artificially re-purposed to that cause. If we assume that player X would have otherwise farmed the gold for the precursor himself, I agree that it doesn’t matter whether he farms it himself or gets it from the group of 10. However I strongly believe there is a non-insignificant group of players that wouldn’t take on the task of farming for a precursor if they couldn’t buy it with real money through gem exchange. And if such a player buys a precursor through gem exchange, gem exchange has created artificial demand for the precursor and caused the price of that precursor to go up.

Psientist.6437:

RMT is a loaded term and I should be more careful about using it. There is a big (not in-game economic though) difference between a game developer selling their in-game currency and a black market seller.

If a currency exchange is going to be employed then one that preferentially impacts the cost of luxury goods is not bad for the game, especially if there are many ways for a player to remain relevant without spending the currency being exchanged.

The currency exchange extracts gold with a low probability of being spent in-game and transforms it into gold that has a high probability of being spent in-game. In other words a player who exchanges gold for gems is not spending that gold on in game items and therefore that player has no effect on the price of in-game goods. A player who exchanges gems for gold is going to spend that gold in-game and impact the cost of in-game goods.

The existence of the currency exchange increases the supply of gold available to be spent on in-game items. Players farm gold for the specific purpose of spending on gems.
This is gold that is now available to be spent in-game that would not have been created without the existence of the currency exchange.

In my apparently uneducated opinion, a player exchanging gems for gold will preferentially spend that gold on in-game goods that require the most time in-game to acquire. Precursors take a long time to acquire. Again in my humble, ill-informed opinion, the question of whether the currency exchange impacts luxury goods more than non-luxury goods is a question of how much. More than a blip I wager.

You’re ignoring the frequency of players converting gems to gold. Is a single person going to cause the price of a particular precursor to increase? No. It will take many more than that. There will also have to be a consistent number of players doing so all the time in order to have a meaningful impact on precursor prices.

Nobody is denying the potential of someone purchasing gold from gems in having an impact. It’s about the same potential as a single player trying to corner that market to inflate the price to make a profit. It’s something that is not easy and pretty difficult to do in the long run. In the case of buying gems to gold, you’d see it in the gem→gold rate.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

If crafting the precursor costs as much as buying it, what’s the point? Most people wanted precursor crafting as an alternative to paying a ton of gold, not the same gold grind with a happy face on it. Did Anet ignore the hundreds of threads about precursor prices?

At this time there is no comfirmed price for how much crafting a precursor will cost so to make this assumption is bit too early. People seem to just assume that , since there is still a monetairy side to it, that it will somehow exceed the price of current precursors.

Also, the price of the craftable precursor is pretty much up to the player, there will be a minimal cost (everythign you cannot gather by yourself but HAVe to buy froma merchant , ex. the unlock for the collection) and a maximal cost (those who choose to buy every single thing they need and is able to be bought straight of the tp). The one that actually matters is the minimal costs, how much gold is it that you need to spend for the necessities of the crafting progress, anything that can be gathered or farmed (mithril ore, wood, etc) is up to the player whether they wish to spend gold or not.

To those who wanted a scavenger hunt , atleast for me, i cannot speak for everyone obviously, is that there needed to be a way that wasn’t either a huge gold dump to lucky person x or simple luck. I don’t mind it taking time, i dont mind it costing gold, as long as can work towards it and create it myself.I’ll happily gather every wood plank or mithril ore, i dont mind it really.

All in all, a lot of talk about the supposed price of crafting a precursor is completely useless as it cannot be determined without knowing every part of the recipe. There is no current way of knowing whether the price is more, less or equal to that of a precursor on the tp.

Garrisyl.7402:

Wanze.8410:

this is true whenever a precursor is bought from the tp, the gold needed to purchase it is usually collected from all over the place, it doesnt matter if someone got the gold from gems or farmed it in game.

Yes, but collecting it alone takes more effort and time than taking it from a large group of players in an instant. Gem conversion enables precursor buying to a group of players that otherwise wouldn’t be willing or able to commit to buying a precursor. More potential buyers leads to higher prices.

In addition, the money from the group you are “taking” from, was not intended for buying precursors from their side. Through currency exchange you are re-purposing and effectively re-using their money.

Example: 10 people farm and collect money, which they convert to gems to buy makeover kits. Their effort and money has now yielded them a reward. Along comes player X, who spends real money on gems and receives the gold that the 10 players collected. He then spends that gold on a precursor. This results in

1) One effort yielded two rewards. However, this does not cause general inflation, since the rewards the first group received were account bound goods with no effect on the economy, and the total amount of gold actually decreased a little through taxes. (This might be different with black lion keys since they yield tradeable goods, but that’s besides the point)

2) Gold that was never intended for precursor buying was artificially re-purposed to that cause. If we assume that player X would have otherwise farmed the gold for the precursor himself, I agree that it doesn’t matter whether he farms it himself or gets it from the group of 10. However I strongly believe there is a non-insignificant group of players that wouldn’t take on the task of farming for a precursor if they couldn’t buy it with real money through gem exchange. And if such a player buys a precursor through gem exchange, gem exchange has created artificial demand for the precursor and caused the price of that precursor to go up.

Just a counter example of myself, as you brought the same arguement as psientist, that people exchanging gold for gems to buy stuff from the store and that gold gets purchased by someone with gems in order to buy a precursor and inflating their price:

I never bought a single gem with real money but purchased around 100k gems with gold to buy stuff from the store. If i wasnt able to convert my gold to gems and could only spend it on in game items, i would probably have bought more precursors or legendaries.

Ayrilana.1396:

Psientist.6437:

RMT is a loaded term and I should be more careful about using it. There is a big (not in-game economic though) difference between a game developer selling their in-game currency and a black market seller.

If a currency exchange is going to be employed then one that preferentially impacts the cost of luxury goods is not bad for the game, especially if there are many ways for a player to remain relevant without spending the currency being exchanged.

The currency exchange extracts gold with a low probability of being spent in-game and transforms it into gold that has a high probability of being spent in-game. In other words a player who exchanges gold for gems is not spending that gold on in game items and therefore that player has no effect on the price of in-game goods. A player who exchanges gems for gold is going to spend that gold in-game and impact the cost of in-game goods.

The existence of the currency exchange increases the supply of gold available to be spent on in-game items. Players farm gold for the specific purpose of spending on gems.
This is gold that is now available to be spent in-game that would not have been created without the existence of the currency exchange.

In my apparently uneducated opinion, a player exchanging gems for gold will preferentially spend that gold on in-game goods that require the most time in-game to acquire. Precursors take a long time to acquire. Again in my humble, ill-informed opinion, the question of whether the currency exchange impacts luxury goods more than non-luxury goods is a question of how much. More than a blip I wager.

You’re ignoring the frequency of players converting gems to gold. Is a single person going to cause the price of a particular precursor to increase? No. It will take many more than that. There will also have to be a consistent number of players doing so all the time in order to have a meaningful impact on precursor prices.

Nobody is denying the potential of someone purchasing gold from gems in having an impact. It’s about the same potential as a single player trying to corner that market to inflate the price to make a profit. It’s something that is not easy and pretty difficult to do in the long run. In the case of buying gems to gold, you’d see it in the gem->gold rate.

Am I really? I am tempted to accuse you of putting words in my mouth. Would your statement about potential impact be considered an opinion? What exactly are you predicting would appear in the exchange rate? What I see is what would make sense if there were a greater aggregate demand for gem-shop exclusive items than luxury goods. I also recognize all those consistently occurring downward vectors in the exchange rate for what they are; consistent exchanges of gems for gold. I also recognize the steady increase of the exchange rate as a steady increase in the supply of gold.

The currency exchange increases the supply and preserves the availability of gold, helps players maintain a demand potential, makes gem shop exclusive items available through play, decreases the impact of black market RMT……

Why do white knights freak out when the princess takes off their makeup? That is a rhetorical question.

edit: Wanze, I exchanged gold for about 3k gems in the spring, converted back into gold for a profit and will spend that gold on luxury goods.

edit: This discussion made me miss the Great British Baking Show!

Psientist.6437:

In my apparently uneducated opinion, a player exchanging gems for gold will preferentially spend that gold on in-game goods that require the most time in-game to acquire. Precursors take a long time to acquire. Again in my humble, ill-informed opinion, the question of whether the currency exchange impacts luxury goods more than non-luxury goods is a question of how much. More than a blip I wager.

But even if you take away the gem/gold exchange:

The player who wanted to spend cash on gems to buy a precursor isnt able to do that anymore but that doesnt neccessarily mean that his demand for the precursor will diminish without that option, he will still try to get it and therefore bring the price up.

Id say it depends on two things, one being how much account bound stuff the collections will need, and on how much precursor prices move after the expansion. If its 100 hours of acc bound tasks and 500g in mats to craft zap but 1000g to buy it on the TP, id be happy with that (yea I dont make 10g an hour hyper speed running dungeons, sue me). If its 100 hours and 950g in mats to craft but 1000g on the TP then id be a lot less happy. Seems difficult to predict with how much prices on these items can be manipulated by small groups of people, but i hope it goes well

Ill probably craft 1 like most people to try it, but if its terrible I can imagine this being the sole thing that will make me stop playing the xpac after 2 months instead of 6+ since the only thing to do once you run out of content is make shiny gear

I remembered that John Smith, the game economist, made a statement about how the currency exchange influences prices (it doesnt):

John Smith.4610:

Leamas.5803:

So, are you saying that you believe that even if the CE had not existed from the start of the game, rare items such as PCs and uber rare skins would still be approximately the same value as they are now? Do you think the negative affects (Negative from a player perspective) the wardrobe had on high end skins will recover back to “normal” prices? I think every time I get close to having enough money to buy a pre, something happens and it it goes way up again…3 times now it’s happened. I just can’t bring myself to play the mystic forge. I don’t have greatest luck in this game at the best of times and at what is it, about a 1:900 chance for a pre with four level 80 rares? The RNG acts very strangely with me and seems anything but random (Which I have reported to ANet couple times). Just can’t do it. I know people who have thrown in over 1000g worth of stuff to get nothing, while I know others who have gotten multiple pre drops with little effort from the forge. Personally, I think the pre supply needs to be increased to undo what the wardrobe has done. Demand was greatly increased on an already very limited supply.

The experience you’re describing would be exactly the same had the CE not existed since launch. Whether that experience SHOULD exist, is another topic entirely.

Stinja.9612:

In theory the over-all costs should go down with HoT because of things like map rewards…in theory

I expect prices for precursors to go down a bit around HoT release but not because of HoT but Halloween. The Labyrinth was always a 5 star farm fest and injected tons of mats into the economy, which made forging pres quite profitable.

t5 fine mats went down from 3.3s to 2s during halloween last year.

Psientist.6437:

Am I really? I am tempted to accuse you of putting words in my mouth.

Sorry but you created an argument that was not from me. You can attempt to claim that I’m somehow putting words into your mouth but we both know that’s not true.

Psientist.6437:

Would your statement about potential impact be considered an opinion? What exactly are you predicting would appear in the exchange rate? What I see is what would make sense if there were a greater aggregate demand for gem-shop exclusive items than luxury goods. I also recognize all those consistently occurring downward vectors in the exchange rate for what they are; consistent exchanges of gems for gold. I also recognize the steady increase of the exchange rate as a steady increase in the supply of gold.

Let’s put it this way. Calculate how many gems someone would need to buy a particular precursor. Let’s go with dusk as it’s one of the ones people always seem to bring up. Dusk currently has a sell price of 1,300 gold. In order to buy it with gems at the current rate of 1G per 9 gems, you would need 11,700 gems.

Now refer back to this older thread where roughly 58 dusks were sold over a 57 hour period. In order for gem->gold conversions to impact the dusk price, you’d have to people converting and buying dusk at a rate above the typical turnover that normally happens.

How many people it would take before a noticeable impact occurs is debate-able. If the price goes up, people will be more inclined to produce more from the MF. This then puts pressure on the T5 mats, rares, and anything else commonly used for forging precursors. How long it would take before their costs in doing so increase is also debate-able.

Now you must consider how many players, who convert their gems, would it take to cause a meaningful impact. A one off conversion by a bunch of players will only show up as a blip at most. In order to have the so-called inflation that you and others claim, it would mean players converting gems to gold was being sustained at a high enough rate to cause this.

Let’s just arbitrarily say that it takes 20 players, at any given time, converting their gems to gold to produce such an impact. I’m low-balling it as I’m ignoring the buffer that T5 materials would provide as prices likely would not increase until they do. That’s 234,000 gems being converted and under the assumption that the precursor price of 1,300 gold is the same for all 20 players. That won’t be the case.

Now spread this across all high demand, highly priced items. Precursors are not the only things people would convert gems for. Also remember that each player converting their gems for one of these items, likely doesn’t need duplicates. This means each player converting their gems to buy a particular high priced item (e.g. dusk) would be unique. Are there realistically that many players willing to spend real money on gems to convert to gold in order to purchase those high priced items on a sustained basis and at a rate that would cause the prices of those items to increase as of a result?

Psientist.6437:

The currency exchange increases the supply and preserves the availability of gold, helps players maintain a demand potential, makes gem shop exclusive items available through play, decreases the impact of black market RMT……

The currency exchange doesn’t increase supply no more than me taking money out of my personal guild bank increases supply. Preserves the availability of gold? You mean one of the things the currency exchange does is preserve the availability of the gold that enters it? You know, my personal guild bank does that well too and without the fee. I’m not sure where you’re going with demand potential.

Psientist.6437:

Why do white knights freak out when the princess takes off their makeup? That is a rhetorical question.

Now. Now. No need to resort to insults.

All the same old arguments being rehashed. The fact is that there are now 4 ways to obtain a precursor and people STILL see fit to complain about it. The best part is going to be when people that wanted to craft precursors start complaining it’s harder to craft than it is to just buy it ouutright … just like many of us told them it would be years ago if they ever became craftable.

Kind of relevant and also because I don’t want to go searching for it again:

All pre-HoT precursors crafted from the mastery collections will be sellable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3mi5y2/twitchcon_day_2_panel_2_legendary_journey_notes/cvfpdys

Setz.9675:

Ayrilana.1396:

Setz.9675:

Ayrilana.1396:

Setz.9675:

Ayrilana.1396:

You’re not doing the same thing which is the difference. They’re having you do activities across Tyria. Much different than sitting in SW and farming gold.

You just don’t get how farming X amount of gold to buy a precursor is the same thing as farming X amount of gold to buy crafting materials to make the same precursor. Too caught up in the collection to see the cost of the recipe and where the equilibrium of prices will be.

What you don’t get is that you’re not doing the same exact same thing the entire time.

Because precursor crafting isn’t exactly the same as outright buying it on tp makes it better or acceptable? just no.

It’s less of a grind because you’re not doing the same thing over and over again.

Can’t image how many mental gymnastics you went through to get to that conclusion but the discussion between you and me ends here. Neither of us will back down on our stance.

Edit:
Do collection one, spend 250g in materials.
Do collection two, spend 250g in materials.
Do collection three, spend 250g in materials.

Wauw you are right, this is so much better than spending 750g in 1 go on the tp.

Wauw, you soo didnt get the point of precursor crafting.

Ayrilana.1396:

Kind of relevant and also because I don’t want to go searching for it again:

All pre-HoT precursors crafted from the mastery collections will be sellable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3mi5y2/twitchcon_day_2_panel_2_legendary_journey_notes/cvfpdys

So what will happen is players making the most expensive precursors to sell them on the tp, then use the gold to buy the precursors they want (assuming they don’t want the most expensive ones)

maddoctor.2738:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kind of relevant and also because I don’t want to go searching for it again:

All pre-HoT precursors crafted from the mastery collections will be sellable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3mi5y2/twitchcon_day_2_panel_2_legendary_journey_notes/cvfpdys

So what will happen is players making the most expensive precursors to sell them on the tp, then use the gold to buy the precursors they want (assuming they don’t want the most expensive ones)

Yes. This will lead to a closer price spread between precursors, i guess, assuming all collections need the same amount of mats to finish. However, if finishing the collections will probably take a couple of months, its not guaranteed that the most expensive precursors will still be the most expensive ones, once someone finishes his collection.

Wanze.8410:

I never bought a single gem with real money but purchased around 100k gems with gold to buy stuff from the store. If i wasnt able to convert my gold to gems and could only spend it on in game items, i would probably have bought more precursors or legendaries.

Just a little sidebar here:

100,000 Gems = ~21,000 Gold. 21,000 Gold has a real world value of $1,890.00. If you spent that amount on Gem purchases, Anet could hire another Dev for a month.

Back on the topic of Precursors. Since all new Precursors going forward will be Account Bound, will the value of the original ones go down due to an assumed decrease in Demand?

Wanze.8410:

maddoctor.2738:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kind of relevant and also because I don’t want to go searching for it again:

All pre-HoT precursors crafted from the mastery collections will be sellable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3mi5y2/twitchcon_day_2_panel_2_legendary_journey_notes/cvfpdys

So what will happen is players making the most expensive precursors to sell them on the tp, then use the gold to buy the precursors they want (assuming they don’t want the most expensive ones)

Yes. This will lead to a closer price spread between precursors, i guess, assuming all collections need the same amount of mats to finish. However, if finishing the collections will probably take a couple of months, its not guaranteed that the most expensive precursors will still be the most expensive ones, once someone finishes his collection.

If all the precursors from the collections take the same amount of mats to finish, the next question is will these mats be the equal price of the most expensive precursor, the least expensive precursor, average price of precursor or what else?

maddoctor.2738:

Wanze.8410:

maddoctor.2738:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kind of relevant and also because I don’t want to go searching for it again:

All pre-HoT precursors crafted from the mastery collections will be sellable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3mi5y2/twitchcon_day_2_panel_2_legendary_journey_notes/cvfpdys

So what will happen is players making the most expensive precursors to sell them on the tp, then use the gold to buy the precursors they want (assuming they don’t want the most expensive ones)

Yes. This will lead to a closer price spread between precursors, i guess, assuming all collections need the same amount of mats to finish. However, if finishing the collections will probably take a couple of months, its not guaranteed that the most expensive precursors will still be the most expensive ones, once someone finishes his collection.

If all the precursors from the collections take the same amount of mats to finish, the next question is will these mats be the equal price of the most expensive precursor, the least expensive precursor, average price of precursor or what else?

From the stream, it would appear that a majority of the required mats can’t be purchased from the TP. That ones that can will probably see a bump in price, but that would be only short term, as the rest will take a tremendous amount of time to complete.

Falling for 10 seconds without touching ground, kneeling before the Collosus in FotM, etc. Once the player population realizes that Precursor crafting ain’t no cake-walk, demand will slowly drop.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

maddoctor.2738:

Wanze.8410:

maddoctor.2738:

Ayrilana.1396:

Kind of relevant and also because I don’t want to go searching for it again:

All pre-HoT precursors crafted from the mastery collections will be sellable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3mi5y2/twitchcon_day_2_panel_2_legendary_journey_notes/cvfpdys

So what will happen is players making the most expensive precursors to sell them on the tp, then use the gold to buy the precursors they want (assuming they don’t want the most expensive ones)

Yes. This will lead to a closer price spread between precursors, i guess, assuming all collections need the same amount of mats to finish. However, if finishing the collections will probably take a couple of months, its not guaranteed that the most expensive precursors will still be the most expensive ones, once someone finishes his collection.

If all the precursors from the collections take the same amount of mats to finish, the next question is will these mats be the equal price of the most expensive precursor, the least expensive precursor, average price of precursor or what else?

From the stream, it would appear that a majority of the required mats can’t be purchased from the TP. That ones that can will probably see a bump in price, but that would be only short term, as the rest will take a tremendous amount of time to complete.

Falling for 10 seconds without touching ground, kneeling before the Collosus in FotM, etc. Once the player population realizes that Precursor crafting ain’t no cake-walk, demand will slowly drop.

Yes I understand that. However there are mats that have a price on the TP and are required to complete the precursor. For example, the volume 1 recipe requires 5g, let’s say that all of them need 5g for a total of 15g for the recipe alone.

Then we have this:
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/gw2-legendary-precursor-collection-4.jpg

The Experimental hammer haft requires 10 Spiritwood Planks. That’s 50g there (5g per Plank)

The Legendary Inscription requires:
10 Globs of Ectoplasm (at 39s each, 3g 90s)
5 Piles of Crystalline Dust (at 23s each, 1g 15s)
Orichalcum Plated Dowel (60s)
10 Elonian Leather Squares (at 3g 50s each, 35g total)

For a total of 90g 60s per tier of the precursor.

You might need those 3 times (3 tiers), because you will need to craft three tiers total, for a price of 271g 80s

This excludes the second component, the Legendary Hammer Head in the case of Colossus, because we don’t know what kind of materials we will need for that. I’d assume it will require 10 Deldrimor Ingots (to be in line with the 10 Spiritwood Planks for the Haft) so there is a good chance the price will be +121g 50s = 393g 30s + 15g for the volume recipes = 408g 30s in materials alone.

I apologize if I made math mistakes above, and we don’t know if we will need to craft all three tiers and not just one. I’m also assuming each tier of the precursor requires the same materials (haft/head/inscription is the same each tier)

The Colossus is ~800-900g and with precursor crafting you can make it with 410g, is the rest of going around and doing the other collections “worth” 400g? That’s up to the individual player to decide.

But what happens with precursors that are valued below 400g? That’s the big question.