Guild Wars 2

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I main a Necromancer as a diremancer, I switch between corruptions and wells depending on the situation; wells are better served in WvW and EotM and I use corruption in Dungeons/fotM.

People whom are saying that Necromancers bring nothing to the table have probably never played one, or played one very poorly. I’d advise every person to try the class effectively before passing judgment on them.

:)

Anyone who has spent over 1 hour on necro, or looked at the necro forum for 30 mins could realize how many problems we have. Unless they’re seriously delusional. You have very rare instances where condi builds can be useful for things like husks, or dark fields to lifesteal through the Jade Maw, etc..but that’s like less than 1% of PvE content. And in PvP even people who hate terrormancers and lich cheese builds can see what sustain issues we have. I also hope by using wells in WvW/EotM you don’t mean you’re using dire gear! Because that’s silly!

But I probably don’t know, I might’ve played necro badly for over 5k hours.

:)

I use Dire gear all round, and I don’t pvP with my necro.

If you have active speed clear teams in your guild and you know how to run with them, Necromancers are probably the most useful class you can have. If you’re pugging kitten as a Necro that just shouts all kinds of badness towards my ears (or rather eyes).

Necromancers have to constantly adapt their builds to be useful in all situations in some way; most won’t make the effort to do that, hence our bad reputation.

Also you can’t really adapt your build to be useful if you’re running dire.

I saw this and didn’t bother reading the rest. It’s a typical response I see all the time – ironically, those are the people that spend half the time dead in FOTM 30+ or TA/Arah/CoE.

Because not everyone is good enough to run zerker? Or some people aren’t using zerker builds therefore inflating the difficulty for them as the fights take longer than they should?

You cannot like it all you want, but you cannot argue with years of experience the dungeon forum community has and has shown in videos.

If what you do works for you then that’s great, but you can’t really claim necros are amazing when you don’t use the most optimal standards that dungeons are run by. You’ll never see a necro in a fastest path record at this point in time. Claiming other people lack knowledge when you’re the one dismissing what basically everyone who has mained the class and run dungeons every day is just not going to help the class get what it needs, or help our Necros are bad reputation.

:)

My points were emphasising that necromancers aren’t AS BAD as everyone makes out to be. I didn’t say they were amazing at anything. I’m well aware of how speed runs work as I do them myself on my necro and have done ever since I started playing one.

Most people think ‘speed runs’ mean joining a group that has ‘speed clear’ in the title, it’s really a lot more than that.

What’s the difference? A fast run is supposed to be a fast run. Why do something in 15-20 mins when you can do it in 5-10?

If that’s the point you’re trying to make then ofc they’re not so god awful they can’t ever do a dungeon, like I said anything is viable. But to be as effective/useful/wanted in a run as the current other 7 profession we need a lot more help because we just do not have anything ‘special’ that we only bring or outshine others in that’s needed with how the current dungeons are made.

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I main a Necromancer as a diremancer, I switch between corruptions and wells depending on the situation; wells are better served in WvW and EotM and I use corruption in Dungeons/fotM.

People whom are saying that Necromancers bring nothing to the table have probably never played one, or played one very poorly. I’d advise every person to try the class effectively before passing judgment on them.

:)

Anyone who has spent over 1 hour on necro, or looked at the necro forum for 30 mins could realize how many problems we have. Unless they’re seriously delusional. You have very rare instances where condi builds can be useful for things like husks, or dark fields to lifesteal through the Jade Maw, etc..but that’s like less than 1% of PvE content. And in PvP even people who hate terrormancers and lich cheese builds can see what sustain issues we have. I also hope by using wells in WvW/EotM you don’t mean you’re using dire gear! Because that’s silly!

But I probably don’t know, I might’ve played necro badly for over 5k hours.

:)

I use Dire gear all round, and I don’t pvP with my necro.

If you have active speed clear teams in your guild and you know how to run with them, Necromancers are probably the most useful class you can have. If you’re pugging kitten as a Necro that just shouts all kinds of badness towards my ears (or rather eyes).

Necromancers have to constantly adapt their builds to be useful in all situations in some way; most won’t make the effort to do that, hence our bad reputation.

Also you can’t really adapt your build to be useful if you’re running dire.

I saw this and didn’t bother reading the rest. It’s a typical response I see all the time – ironically, those are the people that spend half the time dead in FOTM 30+ or TA/Arah/CoE.

Because not everyone is good enough to run zerker? Or some people aren’t using zerker builds therefore inflating the difficulty for them as the fights take longer than they should?

You cannot like it all you want, but you cannot argue with years of experience the dungeon forum community has and has shown in videos.

If what you do works for you then that’s great, but you can’t really claim necros are amazing when you don’t use the most optimal standards that dungeons are run by. You’ll never see a necro in a fastest path record at this point in time. Claiming other people lack knowledge when you’re the one dismissing what basically everyone who has mained the class and run dungeons every day is just not going to help the class get what it needs, or help our Necros are bad reputation.

:)

My points were emphasising that necromancers aren’t AS BAD as everyone makes out to be. I didn’t say they were amazing at anything. I’m well aware of how speed runs work as I do them myself on my necro and have done ever since I started playing one.

Most people think ‘speed runs’ mean joining a group that has ‘speed clear’ in the title, it’s really a lot more than that.

What’s the difference? A fast run is supposed to be a fast run. Why do something in 15-20 mins when you can do it in 5-10?

Because I simply think that expecting ‘speed/fast’ runs from pug lfgers is absolutely silly.

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DakotaCoty.5721:

I main a Necromancer as a diremancer, I switch between corruptions and wells depending on the situation; wells are better served in WvW and EotM and I use corruption in Dungeons/fotM.

People whom are saying that Necromancers bring nothing to the table have probably never played one, or played one very poorly. I’d advise every person to try the class effectively before passing judgment on them.

:)

Anyone who has spent over 1 hour on necro, or looked at the necro forum for 30 mins could realize how many problems we have. Unless they’re seriously delusional. You have very rare instances where condi builds can be useful for things like husks, or dark fields to lifesteal through the Jade Maw, etc..but that’s like less than 1% of PvE content. And in PvP even people who hate terrormancers and lich cheese builds can see what sustain issues we have. I also hope by using wells in WvW/EotM you don’t mean you’re using dire gear! Because that’s silly!

But I probably don’t know, I might’ve played necro badly for over 5k hours.

:)

I use Dire gear all round, and I don’t pvP with my necro.

If you have active speed clear teams in your guild and you know how to run with them, Necromancers are probably the most useful class you can have. If you’re pugging kitten as a Necro that just shouts all kinds of badness towards my ears (or rather eyes).

Necromancers have to constantly adapt their builds to be useful in all situations in some way; most won’t make the effort to do that, hence our bad reputation.

Also you can’t really adapt your build to be useful if you’re running dire.

I saw this and didn’t bother reading the rest. It’s a typical response I see all the time – ironically, those are the people that spend half the time dead in FOTM 30+ or TA/Arah/CoE.

Because not everyone is good enough to run zerker? Or some people aren’t using zerker builds therefore inflating the difficulty for them as the fights take longer than they should?

You cannot like it all you want, but you cannot argue with years of experience the dungeon forum community has and has shown in videos.

If what you do works for you then that’s great, but you can’t really claim necros are amazing when you don’t use the most optimal standards that dungeons are run by. You’ll never see a necro in a fastest path record at this point in time. Claiming other people lack knowledge when you’re the one dismissing what basically everyone who has mained the class and run dungeons every day is just not going to help the class get what it needs, or help our Necros are bad reputation.

:)

My points were emphasising that necromancers aren’t AS BAD as everyone makes out to be. I didn’t say they were amazing at anything. I’m well aware of how speed runs work as I do them myself on my necro and have done ever since I started playing one.

Most people think ‘speed runs’ mean joining a group that has ‘speed clear’ in the title, it’s really a lot more than that.

What’s the difference? A fast run is supposed to be a fast run. Why do something in 15-20 mins when you can do it in 5-10?

Because I simply think that expecting ‘speed/fast’ runs from pug lfgers is absolutely silly.

But it wouldn’t be if people ran the proper armor/professions/traits/utilities to make it faster.

And you just said you used a condi necro in speed runs so I really don’t get what you’re saying now.

Either way this is off topic, I think if you want to know why Necros have such a bad reputation you should try posting in the Necro or Dungeon forums so they can give better solid tangible evidence. I support people playing whatever they want though, I’d love to play my necro in dungeons, but I just feel too guilty too. Just for future reference I wouldn’t try to discredit people ‘not knowing how to play’ just because you have a different opinion than the mass population, it was very hurtful to me!

Have fun!

My favorite classes are Necro (minion master) and Ranger. Both are great. I let my pets do most of my killing in both classes. My Ranger dies way less than my Necro. But both are great fun to play.

Never could warm up to Guardian. My son says it is good – maybe it is just not for me.

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I main a Necromancer as a diremancer, I switch between corruptions and wells depending on the situation; wells are better served in WvW and EotM and I use corruption in Dungeons/fotM.

People whom are saying that Necromancers bring nothing to the table have probably never played one, or played one very poorly. I’d advise every person to try the class effectively before passing judgment on them.

:)

Anyone who has spent over 1 hour on necro, or looked at the necro forum for 30 mins could realize how many problems we have. Unless they’re seriously delusional. You have very rare instances where condi builds can be useful for things like husks, or dark fields to lifesteal through the Jade Maw, etc..but that’s like less than 1% of PvE content. And in PvP even people who hate terrormancers and lich cheese builds can see what sustain issues we have. I also hope by using wells in WvW/EotM you don’t mean you’re using dire gear! Because that’s silly!

But I probably don’t know, I might’ve played necro badly for over 5k hours.

:)

I use Dire gear all round, and I don’t pvP with my necro.

If you have active speed clear teams in your guild and you know how to run with them, Necromancers are probably the most useful class you can have. If you’re pugging kitten as a Necro that just shouts all kinds of badness towards my ears (or rather eyes).

Necromancers have to constantly adapt their builds to be useful in all situations in some way; most won’t make the effort to do that, hence our bad reputation.

Also you can’t really adapt your build to be useful if you’re running dire.

I saw this and didn’t bother reading the rest. It’s a typical response I see all the time – ironically, those are the people that spend half the time dead in FOTM 30+ or TA/Arah/CoE.

Because not everyone is good enough to run zerker? Or some people aren’t using zerker builds therefore inflating the difficulty for them as the fights take longer than they should?

You cannot like it all you want, but you cannot argue with years of experience the dungeon forum community has and has shown in videos.

If what you do works for you then that’s great, but you can’t really claim necros are amazing when you don’t use the most optimal standards that dungeons are run by. You’ll never see a necro in a fastest path record at this point in time. Claiming other people lack knowledge when you’re the one dismissing what basically everyone who has mained the class and run dungeons every day is just not going to help the class get what it needs, or help our Necros are bad reputation.

:)

My points were emphasising that necromancers aren’t AS BAD as everyone makes out to be. I didn’t say they were amazing at anything. I’m well aware of how speed runs work as I do them myself on my necro and have done ever since I started playing one.

Most people think ‘speed runs’ mean joining a group that has ‘speed clear’ in the title, it’s really a lot more than that.

What’s the difference? A fast run is supposed to be a fast run. Why do something in 15-20 mins when you can do it in 5-10?

Because I simply think that expecting ‘speed/fast’ runs from pug lfgers is absolutely silly.

I have never understood what the hurry is. It is a game. Relax, play the game, and have fun. If it takes 10 minutes or an hour – who cares – as long as it is fun. Is it a race?

Purecura.1795:

My vote goes to Necromancer.

It needs improvements like no other class. In PvE no one wants a necro in their dungeon runs. This saddens me because besides Mesmer, Necro is my second favorite class. I only main Necro now, and I should be able to enjoy the game without being rejected from playing with others during dungeon runs due to being a Necromancer.

All players, no matter their profession, should be able to enjoy all forms of gameplay, ( PvE, WvW, PvP ) not just certain ones.

Join a guild and do guild runs of those dungeons? Just a thought. I’m not saying the class shouldn’t be improved if it truly needs it (I don’t know, as I don’t play a Necro), but while waiting for those improvements, at least doing guild runs would let you get content done without being rejected by random scrubs.

Least Played: probably mesmer or engineer

Most broken: necro hands down. They offer very little support, 0 mobility, broken conditions, and 3rd tier power based dps.

Sure you can play them just fine, you probably will stay alive longer than everyone else too… but that is because you don’t do any damage or offer anything to the group so enemies just ignore you. I will say, they are pretty great for taking down slingers in SW solo, but if someone else comes and uses up all the condition slots then you are back to being useless.

Purecura.1795:

My vote goes to Necromancer.

It needs improvements like no other class. In PvE no one wants a necro in their dungeon runs.

Your statement tells me two things :

• You have an excellent knowledge of the dungeon meta and dungeons in general.
• You have no clue about the habits of the majority of the community

The large majority of dungeon runs are done with pugs. 90% of pug groups do not bother to stack might, get their targets to 25 stacks of vuln and do not give a kitten about perma fury. And of course, nobody uses consumables.

The necromancer is a slefish class but it’s also an autonomous one, meaning that in these types of group, the necromancer outdamages almost everyone in the party (self buff to 25 might, applies vuln and no need for fury since 100% crit chances in DS) while being tougher than most.

When I see a necromancer in my pug party I assumes that :

• This guy will bring nothing to me in terms of buffs
• This guy will not need babysitting (they are usually the last ones standing)
• This guy will be efficient no matter what I do

So I’m not going to votekick necro in dungeons. I use necromancers often when pugging and I never had problems. People that do not pack at the right place or people that die too often are much more of a problem to me than a well played necromancer.

Purecura.1795:

All players, no matter their profession, should be able to enjoy all forms of gameplay, ( PvE, WvW, PvP ) not just certain ones.

On this we agree.

Back on topic: least played profession ? I’d say mesmers and engineers. They are the two classes that do not have a corresponding archetype in other fantasy games and thus, hardly attract audience at first sight, despite being awesone. The engineer is more than awesome, it’s kinda broken in WvW/PvP whith their unblockable CCs.

My main is a necro and there are good builds for us, but most of the time we are … (as a class) useless. The necro’s problem is a combination of

• the overall very crappy AI this game has. With Minions that don’t attack, attack the wrong target, run into AoE (just like pve bosses) , stand still in AoE (just like pve bosses), etc… once could easily say that there isn’t any intelligence in this game)
  And somehow the Flesh golem can be even worse then the other minions and bosses, despite him being an elite skill…

• conditions are worthless in pve. A normal enemy melts under any attack, while bosses are either immune to conditions, or other classes (not necessarily condition builds) have already put a stack of 25 bleed and 25 vulnerability on the boss. And since the stacks don’t go higher your extra bleed/etc… just doesn’t do anything especially since it gets replaced by a bleed from a different class…
  For example: each time I’m doing Teq. (with my ele) he has a stack of 25 bleed and 25 vulnerability. Meaning that if I’m bringing a condition necro, I would be completely useless and could just as well sit in a corner until it’s over… Just because that’s how conditions work

• horrible trait design, worthless traits, traits that are seemingly in the wrong tree. Add to that the fact that necro has almost no defense (their defense is attacking), yet we don’t have any good stability (or mobility) access.

But despite all that I’m loved in my WvW-guild as long as not too many necros show up, because a zerg doesn’t need too many necros…. If too many necros show up, some of us have to get on our guardian to give the necros more stability :/

And as far as dungeons go… we can replace a thief but only if no stealth is needed AND we run with a dagger in our main hand. And since speed running is all about stealthing everyone and skipping as many mobs as possible… we don’t have much of a spot in (most) speed runs.

The only problem necro-specific problem is the traits/no defense part. The other problems (non existing AI, how conditions work, stale dungeons, etc…) are game problems that make a necro feel like badly designed and thought out class put in at the very last second without considering how the game actually worked….

Mesmer suffers from the bad pet ai more than rangers. In matters of broken (bugs and more ai bugs) mesmers win hands down.

I switched to ranger as my main as preparation for HoT (as I want to be a druid) and it feels way less buggy than the mesmer.

Least played? Probably mesmer too. The class is a mess for unexperienced players and still tough if you have a fair share of experience. Leveling the old fashioned way is a pain, so I guess many mesmers die on their way to 80.

Let’s wait and see how the chronomance will work out, maybe there is a ray of light at the end of the tunnel…

Necro are getting GS. We’re ready for a come back! They’re gonna be reworking the classes, so everyone chill out on the necros. We can always run dungeons with guildies.

My guild runs dugeons with necros. And those are good necros. If someone is a bad player trying to spoil fun for entire party, it’s not the profession to be blamed.

So is your only argument that Necros are underpowered because speedrun guilds don’t use them in their runs? That’s a stupid argument – 99% of the players aren’t capable of doing what the real speedrunners do, so necros are fine in 99% of all dungeon runs – and they are. You just need to step away from the idea that the usual PvE player is a speed dungeon runner.

Mea.5491:

Snow.2048:

IMO:
Most broken: Trait-wise+class mechanic, Ranger (no need for buffs just rework, the trait lines just don’t make sense and the synergy is limited)

I disagree. Ranger is the only profession where I actually get the traits I want AND the extra stats from traits fit my Knight gear perfectly. I would be disappointed if they changed something.

So traps, great sword and power gear… You do know your traps are only about half as effective as a real trapper? If you didn’t want to take conditions in this full crit line, which traits would you choose that would be worth taking?

That is what I mean about trait issues.

Agreed with necro. As much as I like the overall style of necro, I just can’t get myself to play mine.

I just always get that “Anything you can do, I can do better!” feeling when I play my other characters.

Jana.6831:

So is your only argument that Necros are underpowered because speedrun guilds don’t use them in their runs? That’s a stupid argument – 99% of the players aren’t capable of doing what the real speedrunners do, so necros are fine in 99% of all dungeon runs – and they are. You just need to step away from the idea that the usual PvE player is a speed dungeon runner.

No the argument is that anything necros do others can do better, well except maybe supply dark fields.

Necros are far from useless, but the thing is they’re also just as far from being optimal in almost any niche case.

They really need some help to get up to the level of Engi/Ranger where even though they generally aren’t used by speed runners they at least have niches and aren’t so blatantly behind other professions. Giving them some sort of projectile defense, boosting their vuln output, perhaps a little damage boost, maybe some other forms of group support. Lots of possibilities to make them more suited for PVE would go a long way to making them more than just an additional 5th and let them actually fill a role in the group. And yes, there are roles in PVE groups, there’s a reason why people take guard/mes or thief/engi and not just load up the Eles and DPS things down. That’s where Necros need a little bit of something.

Again, they’re viable, it’s just that they aren’t as good as other professions because they lack the ability to really aid the group.

Jerus.4350:

No the argument is that anything necros do others can do better, well except maybe supply dark fields.

Not really, their Lich form hits for something about 6k with auto attack (if zerker), they can attack more than 5 players/mobs – they do a ton of damage. And in theory every class should be equally strong – and they are. The difference is the utility they bring.

Jerus.4350:

They really need some help to get up to the level of Engi/Ranger

My opinion: Rangers are overpowered and will be nerfed a few months from now as they are ridiculous to play against. Engis are overpowered as well but only because of one thing: their supply crate, so if this were nerfed they were likely underpowered – I’m curious what will happen.

I think necro is slightly overpowered actually and like I said, you can do any dungeon with them.

Edit: But yes, we agree that they could use some group utility although no one ever uses them in pugs.

Jana.6831:

Jerus.4350:

No the argument is that anything necros do others can do better, well except maybe supply dark fields.

Not really, their Lich form hits for something about 6k with auto attack (if zerker), they can attack more than 5 players/mobs – they do a ton of damage. And in theory every class should be equally strong – and they are. The difference is the utility they bring.

Jerus.4350:

They really need some help to get up to the level of Engi/Ranger

My opinion: Rangers are overpowered and will be nerfed a few months from now as they are ridiculous to play against. Engis are overpowered as well but only because of one thing: their supply crate, so if this were nerfed they were likely underpowered – I’m curious what will happen.

I think necro is slightly overpowered actually and like I said, you can do any dungeon with them.

Edit: But yes, we agree that they could use some group utility although no one ever uses them in pugs.

Are we talking PVP here now? Thought the discussion was based on their PVE role, PVP sure, things are much different, I honestly wouldn’t call any profession broken or least played. DPS wise, necros are fine, could use a small increase but they aren’t terrible or anything, it’s just as you say the utility lacking, something every other profession has something to contribute.

I was coming from strictly a PVE standpoint (thought I stated as such but maybe not clear enough).

And I get and use support in PUGs all the time. Your typical bad player doesn’t realize the use of Smoke Fields or Reflects, but it seems like pretty good odds that people will use their skills to help. Especially on say a fractal 50 where you kind of had to have played for a while and done fractals enough to know how to use them.

I started the game with a ranger and got incredibly bored at level 55 and I currently think the best use of my ranger is as a bank. I consider the ranger to be lacking a lot just in enjoying the play style.
So I made a new toon as a necro because I thought it would be fun. It is a ton more fun. I main my necro when I’m farming and for dungeons and have him built as a zerker dagger deathshroud that does good damage and has high survivability. For pvp necro is pretty terrible. My mes and ele and warrior and thief are all better. For wvw ele and warrior are of course better but necro works. That said I think necro is broken because conditions are terrible. I think one of the main aspects of being a necro is toying with your opponents via conditions. Yes I can leave someone with 2 minutes of one stack of bleed but come on. Condo necros don’t have enough differing types of conditions. Signet of spite if it didn’t have a 60 tick cool down. Epidemic is one the most powerful condi spells in the game with a short cd. But there is a problem when my condi thief can down an ele in 5 seconds while my condi necro can’t.

Jerus.4350:

Are we talking PVP here now? Thought the discussion was based on their PVE role, PVP sure, things are much different, I honestly wouldn’t call any profession broken or least played. DPS wise, necros are fine, could use a small increase but they aren’t terrible or anything, it’s just as you say the utility lacking, something every other profession has something to contribute.

I was coming from strictly a PVE standpoint (thought I stated as such but maybe not clear enough).

And I get and use support in PUGs all the time. Your typical bad player doesn’t realize the use of Smoke Fields or Reflects, but it seems like pretty good odds that people will use their skills to help. Especially on say a fractal 50 where you kind of had to have played for a while and done fractals enough to know how to use them.

PvE isn’t separated from the rest, so every change will affect every other aspect, a lot of classes could use some rework on their overall “class balance”, like my example with engi. I’m not that good with necro, but I ran a few dungeons and the thing I missed (usual dungeons, no high level fractals) was to be able to deal single target damage, but I could do that in death shroud with dhuumfire and in lichform (which I didn’t use at that time).
Maybe I should use Necro in dungeon runs again to try out all their skills, some of them look useful and the wells are. Problem might be to make a build that makes sense.
But maybe I have got a different approach to PvE anyway – although my main is a thief (And I use smokescreen, shadow refuge, blinding powder, but rarely smoke field) I try to hit/kill as many mobs as possible and there’s no class better in doing that than necro.

I take it you aren’t aware of the tagging power of guardian staff autoattack.

—

And yeah, CM speed run records are like 3 minutes, your “speed run” pug will take like 20. so no, pugs aren’t speed runners, stop pretending they are, whoever is.

I’m not sure why necros are defending how bad they are… you are only hurting yourself. I’m sorry if you think you are doing real damage, you aren’t. Roll an ele, learn to play it well and then compare it to your necro. at best necro does 60-70% the dmg an ele does, and brings none of the utility.

If you really want necro to be better you should discuss how to make it better, not defend that it can “get by” with what it currently has. I can “get by” dungeon runs naked with a level 1 sword on a warrior, that doesn’t mean I should have to.

I wonder if ANET will address the minion AI issues Necros have. As far as defending this profession its really about bringing light to certain aspects of gameplay where the Necro does not shine compared to other classes. This is FACT and I hope that something positive is done to change that FACT.