Guild Wars 2

I strongly believe that it is impossible to balance every class in the game perfectly, it is just simply impossible. Even Chess, the so called most balanced game, is not balanced since one person will go first.

I think Anet knows this so instead of making every class the same, they give them advantages and disadvantages

For example:

Thief
+ Has a lot of stealth skills
+ Very good mobility
+ Very high single target burst and sustained damage

- Fairly squishy
- Very weak against CCs
- Fairly hard to play effectively
- Bad AoE damage and group support

or

Guardian
+ Very tanky, hard to bring down
+ Very good group support
+ Easy access to some of the best boons in the game

- Mediocre damage
- Rely on good teammates to be effective
- Mediocre CCs
- Conditions damage are nightmare

or

Elementalist
+ Great AoE damage
+ Great CCs
+ The only class with reliable Water Field
+ Very good in group play

- Squishy, very squishy
- Easy target to Thief and Mesmer and such
- Mediocre single target damage

As you see, most classes are strong at a certain field while having weakness in order to provide counter play. But right now I don’t think Warriors have any weakness. Right now I believe, and most of us too, that Warriors are like this:

Warriors
+ Great CCs
+ Very tanky
+ Great damage
+ Good conditions removal
+ Stability on demand
+ Good mobility

- ???

I think that Warriors being strong is fine, as I said it is very hard to balance all the classes in the game perfectly. But I think that Warriors need to have weaknesses, if they have good CC and damage and tanky they shouldnt have good mobility and stability. If they have great mobility and stability and damage they shouldnt have great CC.

My point is, give Warriors some weaknesses in order to create counter play while preserving their strong ability.

Yes because all warriors run 30/30/30/30/30 and our skills never have a cool down so that we can keep stability up 100%.

How about you ask for other classes to have a wide range of builds instead of asking for a nerf because warriors do not have all that you listed all the time. They can be built for a wide variety of things but we are not all of them all the time.

Warriors in PvE are for sure the class to go.
You could argue that they lack clones or stealth or pets maybe to put some “-” in there. ^^

Butter.3024:

+ Very tanky

They are not very tanky. They got so much hp because they have no stealth or pets.
They have a few strong defensive traits but the healing is minimal.
If you are using shout heals you sacrifice pretty much everything for healing power.

In PvE, stealth is overrated by a mile.
Standing in the frontline, dishing out damage and being capable to take twice as much damage as a thief (AoE and that kind, where your stealth is useless as kitten) is not.

tom.7468:

Butter.3024:

+ Very tanky

They are not very tanky. They got so much hp because they have no stealth or pets.
They have a few strong defensive traits but the healing is minimal.
If you are using shout heals you sacrifice pretty much everything for healing power.

so elementalist dont have stealth or pets, they dont even deal as much dmg as warriors but they still have 1/3 hp + even less toughness than a warrior.
explain..?

Vissarion.6509:

tom.7468:

Butter.3024:

+ Very tanky

They are not very tanky. They got so much hp because they have no stealth or pets.
They have a few strong defensive traits but the healing is minimal.
If you are using shout heals you sacrifice pretty much everything for healing power.

so elementalist dont have stealth or pets, they dont even deal as much dmg as warriors but they still have 1/3 hp + even less toughness than a warrior.
explain..?

Water attunement. /s

Or to be serious, the professions are balanced for 5v5 SPVP. Not PVE, not WVW, 5v5 SPVP.

What makes PVE a balancing mess is that mobs do not play by character rules. By this i mean that they rarely boon, they virtually never heal, and they hit like backstab thiefs by default. They are in essence bags of health with big guns.

We really should be focusing on ways to improve the other classes vs nerfing warriors.

Let me see;

Elementalists;

lowest hp in the game, lowest armor in the game, doesnt have stealth, doesnt have clones, doesnt have endless blocks and blinds, doesnt have a passive heal ticking 500 every second on top of highest hp pool in the game, doesnt have condition or damage immunity,

BUT damage does not match a warrior/thief/mesmer (and no, FGS agaisnt a wall is not valid here, thats a bug, and even if it wasnt, it is still niche and only for certain bosses), AoE sure is nice, but with the implementation of ZoE taking into account dodges and blocks all you see when you throw said skill is; “block block dodge block dodge miss, 400, dodge block miss dodge 700”.

The fact that they have to go 30 arcane/ 30 water despite the fact that they might want to play damage is another bummer, just to make up for the innate lack of survavility. One uncouterable gap closer followed by the always nice 13-15 Backstab and there goes your health, if somehow you survived then comes the 7-9k HS and bam you are dead.

Yep, seems pretty balanced to me, after all, isnt our purpose to give free bags?

Ele’s should get some hp of warriors

The major problem I think is occurring is that Anet seems to obsessively stay away from having a trinity-esque system. They seem to want every class to be able to do everything and not have say, Guardians to be the best defensive/healing support class in the game period.

A lot of balancing issues would be solved if each class just massively differs from others and has its own role in a party which no other class can come close to offering. It doesn’t need to be a trinity.

If they want to get away from the trinity, why did they give warriors the highest HP and armor class? This is making that class the most tanky class by base stats.

And yeah, they dish out damage like berserkers, which would fit too.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

If they want to get away from the trinity, why did they give warriors the highest HP and armor class? This is making that class the most tanky class by base stats.

And yeah, they dish out damage like berserkers, which would fit too.

I has the highest HP but Guardians still excell them in terms of pure defensive abilities.

If I recall right, Warriors started as basically a pretty one sided class focusing purely on DPS, then they went and balanced the class do that it can hold its own in PvP, eventually making it into the OP monster it is today.

Vissarion.6509:

tom.7468:

Butter.3024:

+ Very tanky

They are not very tanky. They got so much hp because they have no stealth or pets.
They have a few strong defensive traits but the healing is minimal.
If you are using shout heals you sacrifice pretty much everything for healing power.

so elementalist dont have stealth or pets, they dont even deal as much dmg as warriors but they still have 1/3 hp + even less toughness than a warrior.
explain..?

They deal MORE damage than warriors. You have no idea.

Warriors and guardians and mesmers IMO are the only classes in the game that are balanced – eg. working as intended.
The rest of the classes should be buffed accordingly – but why ruin the ones that are fine?

Nice post Op.

I completely agree with you including the part about warrior class having no weakness. Not too long ago, i also posted the same exact words as well in another forum.

Most certainly this class must be balance without a doubt..

My case is this, since when did a ‘god’ was ever permitted to be a member amoung the other classes in guild wars 2?

seriously,

i want to know?

Burnfall.9573:

Nice post Op.

I completely agree with you including the part about warrior class having no weakness. Not too long ago, i also posted the same exact words as well in another forum.

Most certainly this class must be balance without a doubt..

My case is this, since when did a ‘god’ was ever permitted to be a member amoung the other classes in guild wars 2?

seriously,

i want to know?

Just to spare you future pain – you do realize Anet has stated that the only class that is in a good place right now ( balanced and where they want it to be ) is warrior.
I foresee buffs coming for other classes – but a warrior nerf? no.
Get used to the idea.

Fortus.6175:

Elementalists;

doesnt have a passive heal ticking 500 every second

Signet of Restoration is a passive heal and ticks for 202+0.1*Healing Power each spell cast.

Fortus.6175:

doesnt have condition or damage immunity,

Never heard of mistform eh?

sinzer.4018:

Fortus.6175:

Elementalists;

doesnt have a passive heal ticking 500 every second

Signet of Restoration is a passive heal and ticks for 202+0.1*Healing Power each spell cast.

Fortus.6175:

doesnt have condition or damage immunity,

Never heard of mistform eh?

For your information (which you seem to be quite ignorant about it), the signet of restoration is on ability cast, most of eles skills (staff) are on 3/4 to 1 1/2 seconds cast. The reason why warrior’s signet is so effective is because of their large hp pool and base armor. Lets assume this is a warror in Pvp with zerker amulet, which base hp is 18000 + 3200 from zerker amulet thats 21200, 500 with adrenal healing and signet no healing power. 1000 in 2 seconds.

Lets assume the ele is using scepter, 11k hp base plus 3200 zerker amulet, total of 14200 hp, and 260 less toughness (armor rating, thats 260 toughness less for eles). Also for argument’s sake lets say that said ele used a rotation of 6 spells; phoenix, dragon tooth, blinding flash, switching to air, lighting, RtL, updraft, all that took around 2 seconds rounded, 1200 total.

Sure ele won in that healing, but now lets look at the bigger picture. Before that both were hit by an ability that hit for 3000 damage followed by 2 autoattacks both 1000 each. Total damage 5000 in 2 seconds.

Ele lost nearly 40% of their hp in that, his skills are now in CD, he wont be able to heal all that unless he now blows 2 attunements for another 1200 healing, thats a LOT of CDs, now you are sitting out of attunements for 12-16 seconds. Thats 12-16 seconds you wont be healing much if at all, since you will most likely have to blow the active.

Now lets see the warrior, 5000 damage is actually less than 25% of their hp, not even counting the base armor. in 2 seconds they heal 1000 of that. In the same 12-16 seconds the ele wasnt healing anything the warrior healed a total of 6000-8000.

If you fail to see the flaw in that then you might want to revisit your math classes. Raw damage mean nothing if the percentage they come with are low. A person with a lot of money will not feel the same way about a college tuition of 1000 per credit when they have millions and their income is above 1000 a day, than say a poor student who barely makes it through the month and its income barely gets above 800 a week.

Also, mist form actually benefices the enemy more than you; you cant heal while in it, conditions still tick, enemy can use that time to cast long casting spells such as mantra, or cast healing skills without being interrupted, re-position themselves, put circles on the floor, meanwhile, you cant do anything at all, nada.

Thief ends up having very poor sustained damage because it cannot stay in the fight. It can’t handle melee range vs any other class (played well). It simply doesn’t have enough damage output to compensate for its ubersquishiness.

For that matter, warrior has better sustained mobility than thief. Warrior can and does outrun thief over distances. Thief can cover 3k+ range in a second, but then it has to wait for all the CDs to reset…so thief can “burst” distance, but it can’t sustain that.

Guardian doesn’t really have mediocre damage, and it can win fights solo just fine. You can basically construct a guardian build to counter ANY class effectively. They can also purge conditions very well if built for that.

Ele does NOT always have mediocre single-target damage. It has capacity for extremely high, HIGH damage. However it is very squishy without protection builds.

Warrior presently has no weaknesses, I agree.

I see what the OP is getting at and I kind of agree.

Warriors aren’t ridiculously overpowered in the way that they one-shot everyone, all the time. It’s just that they don’t make the same sacrifices most other classes have to.

If a Thief wants to deal serious damage, he/she will be very squish…..and I mean very.

A Guardian that wants to be a bunker will sacrifice a lot of offensive pressure in the process.

Warriors in that regard, do not make comparable trade-offs. They can have immense offensive pressure while still retaining a lot of survivability. When they do go all out bunker their damage and CC is still respectable.

To give a more tangible example:

Say all classes had 10 points to distribute between offense and defense.

A Dagger/Dagger Thief might be – 2 Defense, 8 Offense.
A Pistol/Dagger Thief in contrast might be – 8 Defense, 2 Offense

An Elementalist that goes full damage is a serious glass-cannon.

Warriors on the other hand seem to have 12 or 14 points do distribute, as opposed to the 10 most classes have.

Not every single aspect of them is OP, just the entire package combined.

Dee Jay.2460:

I see what the OP is getting at and I kind of agree.

Warriors aren’t ridiculously overpowered in the way that they one-shot everyone, all the time. It’s just that they don’t make the same sacrifices most other classes have to.

If a Thief wants to deal serious damage, he/she will be very squish…..and I mean very.

A Guardian that wants to be a bunker will sacrifice a lot of offensive pressure in the process.

Warriors in that regard, do not make comparable trade-offs. They can have immense offensive pressure while still retaining a lot of survivability. When they do go all out bunker their damage and CC is still respectable.

To give a more tangible example:

Say all classes had 10 points to distribute between offense and defense.

A Dagger/Dagger Thief might be – 2 Defense, 8 Offense.
A Pistol/Dagger Thief in contrast might be – 8 Defense, 2 Offense

An Elementalist that goes full damage is a serious glass-cannon.

Warriors on the other hand seem to have 12 or 14 points do distribute, as opposed to the 10 most classes have.

Not every single aspect of them is OP, just the entire package combined.

Pretty much this

Warrior is a jack of all trades, master of all. That’s how that saying goes, right? …

… and all females are equal to males. ha ha ha
Sorry, but I always laugh at the threads about “how to make all the professions be the same and then ask for more professions to be added to the game”

Ronah.2869:

… and all females are equal to males. ha ha ha
Sorry, but I always laugh at the threads about “how to make all the professions be the same and then ask for more professions to be added to the game”

Terrible extrapolation, that does not correlate to the topic at all. Not only do you invalidated your own post by yourself but you made yourself look ridiculous.

It is quite obvious that many classes are suffering from being too uneven in most aspects of the game. The fact that Warr/Mes/Guard are the strongest classes in all aspects of the game shouts imbalance. Sure everything else can work in certain scenarios, but whereas an ele has to setup a ridiculously hard combo that can be easily avoided with the touch of one bottom as oppose to a warrior that can achieve the same [if not better] results with the touch of 2 buttons which are pretty much unavoidable tells a lot.

There is an obvious imbalance in this game, failure to see shows only chosen ignorance.

Mathias.9657:

Warrior is a jack of all trades, master of all. That’s how that saying goes, right? …

Might as well.

Has anyone else read the Warrior profession page? Anyone find the wording a bit weird…or, I guess in this case, hilariously spot on?

“Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.”

Speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor? So, everything you would possibly need in a battle then? I get that they’re supposed to be well-rounded, but something about that description makes me laugh.

But while Mesmers seems strong, they are the least played class in game (10%) and warrior is the most played (16%). Guardian is somewhere in the middle.
Mesmers are not the stronges class in PvE by some extend and need way more button bashing than other classes.

Warriors on the otherhand, you can get good results with just randomly hitting 1,2,3 and 4 and never touching your utility and getting rewarded for it.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-the-first-year/

Fortus.6175:

Ronah.2869:

… and all females are equal to males. ha ha ha
Sorry, but I always laugh at the threads about “how to make all the professions be the same and then ask for more professions to be added to the game”

Terrible extrapolation, that does not correlate to the topic at all. Not only do you invalidated your own post by yourself but you made yourself look ridiculous.

The fact that Warr/Mes/Guard are the strongest classes in all aspects of the game shouts imbalance.
There is an obvious imbalance in this game, failure to see shows only chosen ignorance.

Or you can consider playing certain professions = easy mode while playing other professions = hard mode.
It is just matter of perspective.
You cannot expect a sprinter to keep up with a marathoner or a marathoner to run faster than a sprinter although they are both athletes

Butter.3024:

My point is, give Warriors some weaknesses in order to create counter play while preserving their strong ability.

I think every class has a skill or trait that falls in the OP category. but I have had all professions to 80 since around January, and I do not think you really know what your talking about. I personally feel anyone who has not at least leveled every profession and played at least 20 hours of WvW with each profession at 80, has no business making threads about profession balance. Honestly I feel most of the complaints are made by the inexperienced and ignorant. I do not mean that as a direct insult, I mean it by it true definition. A good amount of posters wanting to discuss what is or is not balanced, does so with an absolute lack of knowledge in various aspects of the game and various professions.

Fortus.6175:

sinzer.4018:

Fortus.6175:

Elementalists;

doesnt have a passive heal ticking 500 every second

Signet of Restoration is a passive heal and ticks for 202+0.1*Healing Power each spell cast.

Fortus.6175:

doesnt have condition or damage immunity,

Never heard of mistform eh?

For your information (which you seem to be quite ignorant about it), the signet of restoration is on ability cast, most of eles skills (staff) are on 3/4 to 1 1/2 seconds cast.

I’m so ignorant of the fact that i actually included it in my post. If you re-read you’ll noticed i said “each spell cast”. No one ever said it works well with all weapons, it’d be foolish using it for staff, but pretty good with daggers.

Fortus.6175:

Also, mist form actually benefices the enemy more than you; you cant heal while in it, conditions still tick, enemy can use that time to cast long casting spells such as mantra, or cast healing skills without being interrupted, re-position themselves, put circles on the floor, meanwhile, you cant do anything at all, nada.

iirc Evasive Arcana procs during mistform and you can still swap attunement while in MF. You’re changing the goal posts though considering you started out stating elementalists have no immunity and now you’re saying the immunity isn’t very good.

Elementalists have their problems, most definitely, it’s why mine’s gathering dust but it’s not because of passive heals or immunities.

sinzer.4018:

Elementalists have their problems, most definitely, it’s why mine’s gathering dust but it’s not because of passive heals or immunities.

They actually have problem with their healing. Healing is one of their core mechanics that should help with their low innate armour and hp. But in order to heal an ele needs to stop attacking to cast those water spell which relieves the pressure of the opponent.

Healing signet: 392 + 0.05 x healing power
Signet of restoration: 202 (168 in pvp) + 0.08 x healing power

There’s no comparison here, signet has also lower cooldown.

Butter.3024:

I strongly believe that it is impossible to balance every class in the game perfectly, it is just simply impossible. Even Chess, the so called most balanced game, is not balanced since one person will go first.

I think Anet knows this so instead of making every class the same, they give them advantages and disadvantages

For example:

Thief
+ Has a lot of stealth skills
+ Very good mobility
+ Very high single target burst and sustained damage

- Fairly squishy
- Very weak against CCs
- Fairly hard to play effectively
- Bad AoE damage and group support

or

Guardian
+ Very tanky, hard to bring down
+ Very good group support
+ Easy access to some of the best boons in the game

- Mediocre damage
- Rely on good teammates to be effective
- Mediocre CCs
- Conditions damage are nightmare

or

Elementalist
+ Great AoE damage
+ Great CCs
+ The only class with reliable Water Field
+ Very good in group play

- Squishy, very squishy
- Easy target to Thief and Mesmer and such
- Mediocre single target damage

As you see, most classes are strong at a certain field while having weakness in order to provide counter play. But right now I don’t think Warriors have any weakness. Right now I believe, and most of us too, that Warriors are like this:

Warriors
+ Great CCs
+ Very tanky
+ Great damage
+ Good conditions removal
+ Stability on demand
+ Good mobility

- ???

I think that Warriors being strong is fine, as I said it is very hard to balance all the classes in the game perfectly. But I think that Warriors need to have weaknesses, if they have good CC and damage and tanky they shouldnt have good mobility and stability. If they have great mobility and stability and damage they shouldnt have great CC.

My point is, give Warriors some weaknesses in order to create counter play while preserving their strong ability.

It is difficult, but not impossible. I’ve never seen such chaotic nerfing and buffing to classes in any mmorpg I’ve played before.

-Rangers needed a buff at the beginning of GW2. They received no nerfs, but no buffs that they desperately needed. This has continued for 9ish months. No nerfs, no buffs.

-Elementalists started off pretty decently. The damage was fine and the mobility was easy to control as well. They were nerfed every. single. patch…. and they should’ve been left alone.

-Thieves were overpowered at the beginning. Enough people complained that Anet started looking at the Thieves and Anet pulled out their ultra-large nerf hammer instead of the normal one, and they whacked Thieves a couple times with it until they were nearly useless. Then they were improved a tiny bit, and that’s where Thieves are at today.

-Warriors were decent in the beginning. I really don’t know what started this, but warriors were buffed every single patch without fail, and they really did not need to be buffed at all. This is pretty much the alpha class in the game atm, and I foresee it being the alpha class for the rest of this game’s lifetime.

There is no logic with these buffs and nerfs. I’ve looked at the changes from a PvP standpoint, and WvW standpoint, and a PvE standpoint. I literally cannot figure out what type of thinking these changes must’ve taken because they were so chaotic and random.

I can’t defeat warriors in PvP anymore with my Elementalist. I used to destroy almost every class in PvP, including the warrior, but now I can barely get their health to half before they take me down in a couple swipes. (This is not because I suck, It’s because of Anet’s terrible nerfing/buffing). If you play a lower-tier class, be prepared to die in PvP a ton, because if you don’t fight with other lower-tier classes, you will insta-die.

Honestly its a balancing act that Aner has shown they don’t care about or don’t want to put the time into … they fallow the same old if its so good that every one is using it then nerf it …. with vary little to off set it

case point …. how many people have a warrior (I am sure a lot) how many of us have a Physical utility build ? sure there are a few but not nearly as many as there are shout/signet zerker builds. This is prof of what Anet dosn’t care about …balancing the unused or never used abilities

just like the racial abilities … they have no linked profession for synergy they have lower damage and/or higher cool downs in most cases just bad or worse then even the unused utilities

case point charr thief … has option of elite skills( I like my charr thief thank you XP)

Warband Support Not available underwater.png 10 1½ 240 Call in members of your warband to assist you.

Thieves Guild Not available underwater.png 10 1½ 180 Call more thieves to support you in combat.

clearly whats the point of having the Charr be a theif sense the thiefs elite ability is better and thus playing a Sylvari for Take Root Not available underwater.png 10 3 150 Take root at your current location, becoming immobile, but causing several turrets to grow nearby. in every way is a better use of points an optimization

or in the worst possible case no skill at all that is usefull you your build an this grab a utility that is just a “what ever” slot fill

If any one reads this and dosn’t understand what I talking about then either you have not been playing this game vary long or you don’t care and just grabbed a web build

I just hope that this game I like dosnt just get pushed to the back of my box of games simply because the Developers neglected it

P.S. the living story … is just bad I have found nothing interesting about them, an they have NOTHING to do with the fact that elder dragons are destroying Tyria or anything to do with Guild wars aka GUILD WARS ….“voteing in a new person to oversee Lions Arch” don’t care ….. should have been “Vote in a Special person to give our guild buff X to kill guild who has Buff X”

Blame sPvP. Balancing has been based on it since headstart. Warrior isn’t usually used in tournaments couple months back, and Anet saw this so they started buffing warriors even more.

Yenn.9185:

Blame sPvP. Balancing has been based on it since headstart. Warrior isn’t usually used in tournaments couple months back, and Anet saw this so they started buffing warriors even more.

This, basically.
They buffed and nerfed classes due to sPvP without considering the consequences on the other – radically different – game modes.

Also, conditions. Those would need a total rework for PvE, thus classes that have to rely on them are kinda disadvantaged.

Harper.4173:

Just to spare you future pain – you do realize Anet has stated that the only class that is in a good place right now ( balanced and where they want it to be ) is warrior.
I foresee buffs coming for other classes – but a warrior nerf? no.

Yes and No.

Yes, Warrior’s state atm is miles away from any other class in the game. Lots of builds. Very effective on a lot of different things and scenarios. Every weapon has a place. Almost every skill is fine. Traits are very good even at Adept tier.
Warrior’s is in the state that every class should reach. And other classes should be buffed accordingly.

But.

No. Because that would lead to a MASSIVE powercreep.

So, picking a class you consider balanced as reference for future changes to other 7 professions is right.
But Warrior wouldn’t be my choice.

You cannot push all classes to the level of warriors without destroying any challenge in PvE. They are simply that overpowered.
You would have to buff all classes and than raise the difficulty level of all PvE content, which would just be the same as simply nerfing warriors.

On the other hand, I am OK with anet fixing useless skills and traits first for other classes and see how close we get to warriors, than balancing them down to where PvE is more balanced for everyone.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

You cannot push all classes to the level of warriors without destroying any challenge in PvE. They are simply that overpowered.
You would have to buff all classes and than raise the difficulty level of all PvE content, which would just be the same as simply nerfing warriors.

On the other hand, I am OK with anet fixing useless skills and traits first for other classes and see how close we get to warriors, than balancing them down to where PvE is more balanced for everyone.

I really hope you meant guardians and mesmers instead of warriors. Reflections are that overpowered.

the only way to balance classes is to remove the AOE cap.
then PVE and WWW will be balanced.
(SPVP should be removed from GW2, they should open separate game called SPVPW2 -as there are no guilds in SPVP and balance it independently )

next stage, after the above is done is to make support and condition builds worth something…

Lalangamena.3694:

the only way to balance classes is to remove the AOE cap.
then PVE and WWW will be balanced.
(SPVP should be removed from GW2, they should open separate game called SPVPW2 -as there are no guilds in SPVP and balance it independently )

next stage, after the above is done is to make support and condition builds worth something…

Yes and no, I think the gear in sPVP should be rebalanced to the same level we have in PvE or the other way around, nerf the PvE gear, doesnt matter.

With the upcoming Ascended gear the gap will be even greater.

PvE, WvW and PVP can be balanced, but not with this ~30% Stat difference in gear.

@Topic: the fact that rangers arent touched since release is the one build they are good at in PvP and played in alot of teams. The condition bunker spirit build, that has a huge support (perma burn + protection), high survivability (no crit procs needed) and high direct damage (pet isnt effected by ranger stats). This build makes the ranger appear strong, while alot of things needs to be fixed.

In the beta weekends, rangers greatsword dealed alot more damage and he could be played like a 100B- warrior with quickness and every skill on CD. This was a L2P issue, but on release, 100B was untouched, ranger greatsword damage was reduced….. Thats the point a ranger is today, we get some buffs/changes on maul, while the auto atack damage is the bigger problem for example.

Bad reasoning by OP

While I agree that it is impossible to have perfect balance, that is no reason to not call for better balance. What we currently have is VERY BAD balance and we can certainly demand that ANet do a lot better than what we currently have.

It doesn’t help that balance is assumed by what the profession should do, but bad mechanics and bugs prevent that balance.

Sandpit.3467:

It doesn’t help that balance is assumed by what the profession should do, but bad mechanics and bugs prevent that balance.

It also doesn’t help that some people view these broken mechanics and bugs as “working as intended” then decide to label everyone else as lazy and/or unskilled.

Galtrix.7369:

-Warriors were decent in the beginning. I really don’t know what started this, but warriors were buffed every single patch without fail, and they really did not need to be buffed at all. This is pretty much the alpha class in the game atm, and I foresee it being the alpha class for the rest of this game’s lifetime.

You have no idea how warrior was before the sustain buff.
We were literally the laughing stock of any pvp game. Just shows how poorly informed and biased you are.

The buffs/nerfs done were not random – they’ve been doing a decent job and I believe other classes will be buffed to be on par with more solid choices ( warrior, mesmer, guardian).

Harper.4173:

Galtrix.7369:

-Warriors were decent in the beginning. I really don’t know what started this, but warriors were buffed every single patch without fail, and they really did not need to be buffed at all. This is pretty much the alpha class in the game atm, and I foresee it being the alpha class for the rest of this game’s lifetime.

You have no idea how warrior was before the sustain buff.
We were literally the laughing stock of any pvp game. Just shows how poorly informed and biased you are.

The buffs/nerfs done were not random – they’ve been doing a decent job and I believe other classes will be buffed to be on par with more solid choices ( warrior, mesmer, guardian).

In my opinion the warrior was designed different than he is today.
He was strong against direct damage, with high armor, hp, high damage output, … but on the other hand his weak spot was condition damage.

He is the only class, where invulnerability doesn’t prevent new conditions. He needed some fixes to properly apply his damage and bug fixes like any other class, too.

With all this new “balancing changes” his weak spot was greatly reduced until it is gone now. Speaking of cleansing ire, berserker stance, … While there was nothing the warrior had to sacrifice to balance this. Of course some of this changes were needed to compensate the upcoming condition meta, but right now it is like an overdose.