Guild Wars 2

I just think that this game would be a lot more enjoyable for a lot more people if each profession was as good as Warriors are in general in all aspects of the game.

Warriors have the most hps, the most armor and do close to the most damage. They have access great passive health regeneration as well.

The have some of the better utilities, and all their utilities have much shorter cooldowns than other comparable classes.

My main is an elementalist but I had enough extra tokens and materials to make full ascended gear for my warrior, so I did, and the game is night and day different. It feels like I’ve been playing half a class this entire time. Within a mere 15 minutes of play, I could tell that the Warrior was more powerful and better suited to every aspect of the game.

This is exactly why I won’t play a heavy class. I really love my ele and have decided out of my ranger, necro, ele, and mesmer, the ele is the one I will fully deck out in ascended first. It’s the character I log in with 85% of the time. I don’t want to play warrior because it would ruin my feeling about my other characters. See no, hear no, speak no…

Hey Red, you’re preaching to the choir.

And Rhapsody, I proudly don’t have a Warrior toon either.

1750/1900 hours on my warrior, have 6 other 80’s but my warrior love is still there.
playing the other classes is fun and all, and I do so when they are better suited for whatever niche task I need them for but… playing them in any other situation except for the niche situations instead of my warrior feels sub optimal and slow going.

For dungeoning, you really don’t need more than 2 Warriors in my opinion. Ele’s can do incredible damage with the Lightning Hammer build, the Lava Font build, and if you got 2 eles, knocking a boss into a wall and having 4 people obliterate him with Fiery Rush is always awesome

Someone on the forums mentioned an idea I found interesting:
Warriors are in fact a balanced class, they can fill in most and certainly the most important roles the game has to offer (although too many at the same time IMO) and can function in practically all situations.

This is how all classes should be, full of variety that is available through specialisation. Instead what we get is a Warrior jack of all trades master of all with the other classes being pigeon holed into very very limited roles and functioning. In some cases “cough” Ranger “cough” even none at all.

I finally, after a year, got my warrior to 80. Why so long? It is boring as all heck to me. Yes, it is obvious to me that it is more powerful than any other class I’ve tried (thief, necro, ele, and guardian, not yet engineer) and I hardly have to switch up my skills all that much. But it is not fun for me because it is rather easy and frankly I don’t want to contribute to the over abundance of greatsword-wielding warriors you see running around everywhere (my war dual axes, the true weapons of a Norn warrior ). Anyway, I’ll stick with my necro and thief.

Same here, pal. I rolled an ele as main since release until 2 months ago. Fully decked it on ascended, almost finished Bifrost and had more than 1500 only on the ele. Then I created a guardian, now I realize how underpowered teles are, as compared to guardian. My guardian is fully decked now and almost done with Sunrise, but I decided to test warrior to see what all the fuzz is about and….my goodness, even with crappy gear they do better than my ele and guard together could ever hope to!

Either everyone else needs to be brought up to warrior’s place or they need to drag warriors back with all 7 classes, it is too unfair

Sadface, hope Anet will fix warrior

I have a level 80 in each profession but my Warrior is my main which runs dual axes and a rifle, recently I’m been running him with a sword/shield/rifle which I like, regardless he’s a tank but does go down, like any profession the toon is only as good as the person behind the keyboard. I’m old and slow and get myself in problems at times and it’s nice to see folks come to the aid of a downed warrior maybe it’s because of the DPS or maybe just being nice but I get more res’s playing my warrior than any of my other toons.

I don’t want warriors nerfed. I would like to see the rest of the classes be as capable as warriors in all aspects of the game.

I think it’s just Crit + power + precision that scales too well together.
It scales way better than Toughness + vitality, I believe Anet needs to do some serious retweaking there.

I think the main problem is the base HP of other classes, added to the fact that warrior wear heavy armor.

In terms of DPS, warrior isn’t even on top 3, according to someone who did the math. So that’s not why warrior is so good. It’s just that other classes have to put it some survivability in order to catch up with warrior’s survivability.

In optimal groups, ele’s usually outdamage the warriors.

Warriors need a nerf really, the amount of heals you can pump out just isn’t right.

Yenn.9185:

I think the main problem is the base HP of other classes, added to the fact that warrior wear heavy armor.

In terms of DPS, warrior isn’t even on top 3, according to someone who did the math. So that’s not why warrior is so good. It’s just that other classes have to put it some survivability in order to catch up with warrior’s survivability.

Thieves can get higher dps against targets with less than 50% hp, Ele can get higher dps against targets stuck in a wall and if there is only one mob they can get similar dps with lightning hammer.
Bomb engineer could probably out dps warrior too. But Im not 100% sure about that.
So warrior dps is in no way OP. If anything its a little too low.

tom.7468:

Yenn.9185:

I think the main problem is the base HP of other classes, added to the fact that warrior wear heavy armor.

In terms of DPS, warrior isn’t even on top 3, according to someone who did the math. So that’s not why warrior is so good. It’s just that other classes have to put it some survivability in order to catch up with warrior’s survivability.

Thieves can get higher dps against targets with less than 50% hp, Ele can get higher dps against targets stuck in a wall and if there is only one mob they can get similar dps with lightning hammer.
Bomb engineer could probably out dps warrior too. But Im not 100% sure about that.
So warrior dps is in no way OP. If anything its a little too low.

you must be a bad warrior

Khallis.5708:

tom.7468:

Yenn.9185:

I think the main problem is the base HP of other classes, added to the fact that warrior wear heavy armor.

In terms of DPS, warrior isn’t even on top 3, according to someone who did the math. So that’s not why warrior is so good. It’s just that other classes have to put it some survivability in order to catch up with warrior’s survivability.

Thieves can get higher dps against targets with less than 50% hp, Ele can get higher dps against targets stuck in a wall and if there is only one mob they can get similar dps with lightning hammer.
Bomb engineer could probably out dps warrior too. But Im not 100% sure about that.
So warrior dps is in no way OP. If anything its a little too low.

you must be a bad warrior

What do you mean? He is absolutely correct. Bomb engineer, afaik, has lower dps. But thieves and ele both have higher dps than warrior.

Yenn.9185:

Khallis.5708:

tom.7468:

Yenn.9185:

I think the main problem is the base HP of other classes, added to the fact that warrior wear heavy armor.

In terms of DPS, warrior isn’t even on top 3, according to someone who did the math. So that’s not why warrior is so good. It’s just that other classes have to put it some survivability in order to catch up with warrior’s survivability.

Thieves can get higher dps against targets with less than 50% hp, Ele can get higher dps against targets stuck in a wall and if there is only one mob they can get similar dps with lightning hammer.
Bomb engineer could probably out dps warrior too. But Im not 100% sure about that.
So warrior dps is in no way OP. If anything its a little too low.

you must be a bad warrior

What do you mean? He is absolutely correct. Bomb engineer, afaik, has lower dps. But thieves and ele both have higher dps than warrior.

this is what i dont get, people still think warrior has high damage when in reality its lower-mid tier damage, basically tied with ranger

Clumsy.6257:

Yenn.9185:

Khallis.5708:

tom.7468:

Yenn.9185:

I think the main problem is the base HP of other classes, added to the fact that warrior wear heavy armor.

In terms of DPS, warrior isn’t even on top 3, according to someone who did the math. So that’s not why warrior is so good. It’s just that other classes have to put it some survivability in order to catch up with warrior’s survivability.

Thieves can get higher dps against targets with less than 50% hp, Ele can get higher dps against targets stuck in a wall and if there is only one mob they can get similar dps with lightning hammer.
Bomb engineer could probably out dps warrior too. But Im not 100% sure about that.
So warrior dps is in no way OP. If anything its a little too low.

you must be a bad warrior

What do you mean? He is absolutely correct. Bomb engineer, afaik, has lower dps. But thieves and ele both have higher dps than warrior.

this is what i dont get, people still think warrior has high damage when in reality its lower-mid tier damage, basically tied with ranger

It’s a PuG thing. Warrior can easily go full zerker because of HP and armor. Ele and thieves not so much, and if they don’t go full zerker or close to it, a zerker warrior still has higher dps.

I mained a warrior in hopes that they wouldn’t be extremely irrelevant to the game like they were in GW1 after the Dervish came out. I refuse to change simply because, whoops, we ended up going from the bottom of the totem pole to the top in a very short amount of time after launch.

DPS is only relevant if you can deliver it. And warriors have the best tools to get the job done. Yes, thiefs and eles do have high DPS, too. And as others have said even higher than warriors. But compared to warriors they’re fragile and more tricky to play. Make one mistake and your done. It’s like having a sports car with tons of horsepower on a weak chassis.

The warrior profession, on the other hand, is a super solid well-rounded package. Everything else is just patchwork

Henri Blanche.8276:

Hey Red, you’re preaching to the choir.

And Rhapsody, I proudly don’t have a Warrior toon either.

I’ve leveled an Engineer and an Elementalist just so I could make a Warrior without feeling bad about it.

The problem with the class balancing in this game has and apparently always will be that they have ZERO balancing formulas. There are similar attacks that do no where near the same damage. There are similar traits where one is adept and does way more than another classes grandmaster. What’s worse is they continue to balance things on the failed SPvP meta and think tooltip changes will heavily impact the game. There is no rhyme or reason to which classes got the most health/armor other than lore…which is terrible balancing to begin with. The game was built on unbalanced mechanics like how direct damage scales vs survivability and condition damage. The entire condition system, especially in PvE, needs an overhaul.

Until ArenaNet actually acknowledges the problem things will never get fixed. They need to just bite the bullet, make big changes, and put more manpower into getting things balanced out. Balancing classes is a huge part of making an MMO and clearly they underestimated it.

The problem with Warriors is that they can do pretty much everything without sacrificing much.

Guardians sacrificed power for defence and supports (it’s arguable that warriors for reasons beyond me can heal better than guardians though)

Thieves sacrificed defence and HP for high attack

And so on

…. warriors basically have next to no weaknesses or drawbacks.

Grok Krog.9581:

For dungeoning, you really don’t need more than 2 Warriors in my opinion.

(cough shifting baseline syndrome cough)

Just to reiterate; if this was true for every class we would have 16-man dungeon runs. Might give an idea of just how balanced warriors are :>

Clumsy.6257:

Yenn.9185:

Khallis.5708:

tom.7468:

Yenn.9185:

I think the main problem is the base HP of other classes, added to the fact that warrior wear heavy armor.

In terms of DPS, warrior isn’t even on top 3, according to someone who did the math. So that’s not why warrior is so good. It’s just that other classes have to put it some survivability in order to catch up with warrior’s survivability.

Thieves can get higher dps against targets with less than 50% hp, Ele can get higher dps against targets stuck in a wall and if there is only one mob they can get similar dps with lightning hammer.
Bomb engineer could probably out dps warrior too. But Im not 100% sure about that.
So warrior dps is in no way OP. If anything its a little too low.

you must be a bad warrior

What do you mean? He is absolutely correct. Bomb engineer, afaik, has lower dps. But thieves and ele both have higher dps than warrior.

this is what i dont get, people still think warrior has high damage when in reality its lower-mid tier damage, basically tied with ranger

I was gonna make a strawman argument. But then I realized I could never 1-up your post on a bullkitten-scale, so I didn’t bother.

Warriors start off with such large amounts of survivability for free, where other classes have to gear, trait and utility for it. So while other classes might be able to reach higher DPS levels at a maximum, Warriors can achieve very high damage without having to worry as much about surviving.

All professions should ideally have the same baseline survivability as a warrior, so that it is based on how one specs and traits rather than one’s innate class choice.

The other choice is that professions with lower baseline survivability than warriors should start off with higher amounts of damage. Then they can choose to gear and spec for more damage or they can gear for the survivability that warriors start off with.

Uhm, warrior have higher armor and hp than most classes because warriors make up for it through superior mobility and active damage mitigation. Wait what?!

Bawi.9541:

Uhm, warrior have higher armor and hp than most classes because warriors make up for it through superior mobility and active damage mitigation. Wait what?!

Balance.

Bawi.9541:

Uhm, warrior have higher armor and hp than most classes because warriors make up for it through superior mobility and active damage mitigation. Wait what?!

http://i.imgur.com/SGrDH95.gif

red.2387:

I just think that this game would be a lot more enjoyable for a lot more people if each profession was as good as Warriors are in general in all aspects of the game.

Warriors have the most hps, the most armor and do close to the most damage. They have access great passive health regeneration as well.

The have some of the better utilities, and all their utilities have much shorter cooldowns than other comparable classes.

My main is an elementalist but I had enough extra tokens and materials to make full ascended gear for my warrior, so I did, and the game is night and day different. It feels like I’ve been playing half a class this entire time. Within a mere 15 minutes of play, I could tell that the Warrior was more powerful and better suited to every aspect of the game.

I went into WvW yesterday, ran into about 5-8 Warrior 1v1 fights. I still hold to what I have called that class since WvW came into my eyes: Warriors = Forest Gump. “Run Forest, Run!” Greatswords on Warriors, but no box of chocolates. Only 1 got away because he ran to his Zerg.

Crawford.4135:

red.2387:

I just think that this game would be a lot more enjoyable for a lot more people if each profession was as good as Warriors are in general in all aspects of the game.

Warriors have the most hps, the most armor and do close to the most damage. They have access great passive health regeneration as well.

The have some of the better utilities, and all their utilities have much shorter cooldowns than other comparable classes.

My main is an elementalist but I had enough extra tokens and materials to make full ascended gear for my warrior, so I did, and the game is night and day different. It feels like I’ve been playing half a class this entire time. Within a mere 15 minutes of play, I could tell that the Warrior was more powerful and better suited to every aspect of the game.

I went into WvW yesterday, ran into about 5-8 Warrior 1v1 fights. I still hold to what I have called that class since WvW came into my eyes: Warriors = Forest Gump. “Run Forest, Run!” Greatswords on Warriors, but no box of chocolates. Only 1 got away because he ran to his Zerg.

That’s the really bad Warriors who show up to WvW in their PvE zerker gear. Or they’re just bad at the game.

Every class should be brought to the level of the warrior, just with different flavours. Warriors are the absolute kings of survival, if you want to build them that way. They have the second highest DPS available in-game, if that’s the route you want to take. They can be built to support a party with better offensive buffs than any other class can provide, if that’s your flavour. They even do far better ranged damage than the ranger can.

Somewhere, there has to be one Anet dev who plays a class other than warrior (or thief. The 5 people I’ve seen repping Anet on IoJ only play warrior or thief. Tells you something, doesn’t it?)

Current setup:

Warrior: Lords of all they survey. Little risk, vast reward. Only things they’re lacking is stealth and teleports. (wait for next patch though…)

Guardian: A bit below warrior, since you have to have your eyes open to play them. Far more fun (to me)

Mesmer: Probably the best utility class in the game, decent damage, but requires fair skill to play.

Necromancer: Condition AoE kings, and I think are terribly under-rated in game.

Engineer: No clue, other than they seem to be immune to condition deaths. Flamethrower effect has caused seizures in my wife, so I won’t play/group with engineers.

Thief: Broken. Everything revolves around stealth, which has no place at all in a multiplayer game. Without stealth, they’re fun, but not exactly viable. With stealth, they just scream “kittenol” all the way to the bank. When even the devs admit “making a thief retreat IS the victory” there’s something wrong.

Elementalist: Broken, but differently from the thief. Traits/HP/armour level are so messed up that there’s only been 1 viable, powerful build, and it got nerfed repeatedly because people on the whole are too stupid to bring stun removal. Right now counts as the highest risk with the lowest reward, and highest skill ceiling with zero payout.

Ranger: Bottom of the barrel. Pets don’t work. 51 of their 75 traits are directly tied to the pet. 8 of their 20 utility skills are directly tied to the pet. To get any one type of utility to be functional requires a 30pt investment in a traitline. One of their weapons has been broken since release, and many players have resigned themselves to viewing it as a feature, not a bug. The class needs serious attention. However, it does make an excellent bunker in 5v5 pvp. Spirit build was FotM, but is being toned down, because it’s terribly passive play, and somehow there’s a sense that one should never lose to the ranger.

Heavy professions are simply too easy to play. You achieve much better results with miniscule effort.

stale.9785:

Every class should be brought to the level of the warrior, just with different flavours. Warriors are the absolute kings of survival, if you want to build them that way. They have the second highest DPS available in-game, if that’s the route you want to take. They can be built to support a party with better offensive buffs than any other class can provide, if that’s your flavour. They even do far better ranged damage than the ranger can.

Somewhere, there has to be one Anet dev who plays a class other than warrior (or thief. The 5 people I’ve seen repping Anet on IoJ only play warrior or thief. Tells you something, doesn’t it?)

[snip snip. I agree with the rest btw, I just try not to quote the entirety of long posts.]

Ranger: Bottom of the barrel. Pets don’t work. 51 of their 75 traits are directly tied to the pet. 8 of their 20 utility skills are directly tied to the pet. To get any one type of utility to be functional requires a 30pt investment in a traitline. One of their weapons has been broken since release, and many players have resigned themselves to viewing it as a feature, not a bug. The class needs serious attention. However, it does make an excellent bunker in 5v5 pvp. Spirit build was FotM, but is being toned down, because it’s terribly passive play, and somehow there’s a sense that one should never lose to the ranger.

If I could give you all the +1s in the world right now, I would do just that. Alas, I am only limited to one, but know that that one is given with all the love one could possibly give it.

According to wiki, light armor “make up for lack of defense with versatility and adaptability”. I don’t know what that means since all classes can go melee, range, support, control, damage, and defense. Clearly versatility and adaptability is not something you would feel unique about.

Hopeful setup:

Warrior: Leave as-is. It’s actually in a fairly good spot.

Guardian: Do something to make spirit weapons viable. Revert PoV (pure of voice trait) to it’s previous functionality, (removing 2 conditions, vs it’s current 1) and you’ve got a wonderful support/DPS class. Doing anything to up guardian’s damage would make them stupidly OP. Upping their HP would make them insanely hard to kill. Making them better group supporters? Just perfect.

Mesmer: Someone else would have to tackle this – my mesmer is only lvl 32, and I’m not sure where I’d take them to bring them up to warrior viability. I like mesmers, and the good mesmer players (which I’m not) are frighteningly good. I’m a bad mesmer. Very bad.

Necromancer: Something seems off with the staff auto attack. Buff that. (Remove the sound, too. I’ll pay another $60 for them to just remove the bloody staff 1 sound.) Haven’t seen a viable full spectral build yet. Vampirism traits desperately need a buff. Need a reliable source of vigor.

Engineer: don’t care. See above re: flamethrower effect.

Thief: Stealth can’t be balanced the way it’s currently implemented. An entire traitline depends on lots and lots and lots of stealth, and reward you in the extreme for using it. Buff HP to ranger level, increase ALL stealth cooldown immensely, keep current rewards for it. Electrocute anyone who previously/currently abused HS/BS spam. Seriously, reduce the trolliness of the class, and leave the position/bursting skill.

Elementalist: This would be terribly easy to fix, were they willing. Buff HP to ranger level, make it so that across all weapons, fire was the AoE set, Air the single target set, Water the healing (duh) and Earth the survival. Put a stun break back on purge conditions, remove it from lightning flash (duh). Reduce recharge of staff weapon skills by a good chunk. Made attunement swap 10 seconds base, and investing in arcana able to reduce it to 5 seconds. Increase damage of weapon skills overall.

Ranger: Make the pet optional. Give up already. Make it tied to beastmastery (you don’t put points in beastmastery? No pet for you.) Pet works like minions, where it’s additional damage, not part of the whole. Reduce their overall damage to the level of the utility minions on necro. Increase the weapon coefficients to increase the damage lost from pet. Make preparations the profession mechanic F1 for the next X seconds, arrows fly 50% faster. F2 Your next X attacks inflict Ys poison on your target. F3 Your next X attacks interrupt your target. F4 Your next X attacks inflict immobilize on your target. Remove current pet-centric traits outside of beastmastery and change them to effect the preparations.

EDIT: for spelling and grammar – need sleep, but like thinking about fixing the ranger.

Babychoochoo.5690:

stale.9785:

Every class should be brought to the level of the warrior, just with different flavours. Warriors are the absolute kings of survival, if you want to build them that way. They have the second highest DPS available in-game, if that’s the route you want to take. They can be built to support a party with better offensive buffs than any other class can provide, if that’s your flavour. They even do far better ranged damage than the ranger can.

Somewhere, there has to be one Anet dev who plays a class other than warrior (or thief. The 5 people I’ve seen repping Anet on IoJ only play warrior or thief. Tells you something, doesn’t it?)

[snip snip. I agree with the rest btw, I just try not to quote the entirety of long posts.]

Ranger: Bottom of the barrel. Pets don’t work. 51 of their 75 traits are directly tied to the pet. 8 of their 20 utility skills are directly tied to the pet. To get any one type of utility to be functional requires a 30pt investment in a traitline. One of their weapons has been broken since release, and many players have resigned themselves to viewing it as a feature, not a bug. The class needs serious attention. However, it does make an excellent bunker in 5v5 pvp. Spirit build was FotM, but is being toned down, because it’s terribly passive play, and somehow there’s a sense that one should never lose to the ranger.

If I could give you all the +1s in the world right now, I would do just that. Alas, I am only limited to one, but know that that one is given with all the love one could possibly give it.

Thanks? Ranger, being my main, is something I’ve given a lot of thought too. Not always cheerful thought, but hey. I want to love my ranger. I want all my alts to be as “Ready-to-own-anything” as my warrior is. Hopefully we can push Anet to that point.

stale.9785:

Babychoochoo.5690:

stale.9785:

Every class should be brought to the level of the warrior, just with different flavours. Warriors are the absolute kings of survival, if you want to build them that way. They have the second highest DPS available in-game, if that’s the route you want to take. They can be built to support a party with better offensive buffs than any other class can provide, if that’s your flavour. They even do far better ranged damage than the ranger can.

Somewhere, there has to be one Anet dev who plays a class other than warrior (or thief. The 5 people I’ve seen repping Anet on IoJ only play warrior or thief. Tells you something, doesn’t it?)

[snip snip. I agree with the rest btw, I just try not to quote the entirety of long posts.]

Ranger: Bottom of the barrel. Pets don’t work. 51 of their 75 traits are directly tied to the pet. 8 of their 20 utility skills are directly tied to the pet. To get any one type of utility to be functional requires a 30pt investment in a traitline. One of their weapons has been broken since release, and many players have resigned themselves to viewing it as a feature, not a bug. The class needs serious attention. However, it does make an excellent bunker in 5v5 pvp. Spirit build was FotM, but is being toned down, because it’s terribly passive play, and somehow there’s a sense that one should never lose to the ranger.

If I could give you all the +1s in the world right now, I would do just that. Alas, I am only limited to one, but know that that one is given with all the love one could possibly give it.

Thanks? Ranger, being my main, is something I’ve given a lot of thought too. Not always cheerful thought, but hey. I want to love my ranger. I want all my alts to be as “Ready-to-own-anything” as my warrior is. Hopefully we can push Anet to that point.

Sorry for my over-excitement I guess lol. It’s just kinda hard for me not to rally behind any well-constructed class balance posts, especially when such posts contain anything in regards to buffing rangers.

My ranger is not only my main, but essentially my only char at all at the moment. I have a lvl 50-60ish mesmer that I haven’t touched in a while and I’ve dabbled in all the other classes quite a fair bit, but none really stuck with me like the ranger did.

But, I digress. I also hope we can push ANet to that point. Lord knows things have gone on this way for far too long.

What exactly should replace pets as a class mechanic for rangers? I was thinking that, given that they are supposed to be masters of various environments, maybe it should be a set of skills that change based on the ranger’s environment, e.g.:

F1: a “camouflage” skill that would be a ranger-specific form of stealth, with a unique graphical effect for each environment. It would last longer, but would break if an enemy came too close to the ranger (sort of tracking with the ranger’s ranged-weapon archeype).

F2: a pet summon that would call a random creature suitable for the area (then would be replaced by a pet F2 skill). There wouldn’t be any other pet control. Pets would remain until death or leaving the environment.

F3: a preparation, suitable to the environment. It would not affect melee, but would affect all ranged attacks whether from a bow or not.

F4: create an improvised weapon suitable to the enviroment, kittenain to use it, similar to steal (but based on location rather than target). It would usually be a melee or short range effect (as an alternative to F1 and F3’s emphasis on range).

Pet emphasis in traits and skills would need to be toned down as well.

One class mechanic that Rangers have right now is the need to actually “unlock” their class mechanic by exploration, and I think that should be preserved. It would be good to have the ranger start with one unlocked set of skills corresponding to his home area, then others would be unlocked by fighting in a new environment, like weapon skills.