Guild Wars 2

I’ve played GW2 since the beginning, I was unlucky enough to level 5 characters to 80 before the major changes arrived requiring skill points to unlock traits with skill points.

I didn’t realize how great this system was, until I leveled 2 new characters within the past month to 80. You have two choices when it comes to unlocking your traits, either you can continue grinding “mini quests”, these include quick and simple things such as:

1. Find the grand chest near Scholar Fryxx (bring 3+ mesmer friends with you)
2. Defeat the Risen Priest of Grenth
3. Complete Crucible of Eternity in Story Mode
4. Defeat the Karka Queen
5. Complete the Ruined City of Arah in Story Mode
etc.

OR…you can spend your gold + skill points at the vendor. Luckily though, it only costs 72 skill points to get all the traits in one trait line, or 360 skill points to get all the traits on one character. Not too bad.

As of present, my two “new” level 80’s have probably about 50% of their traits unlocked (remember, skill points are sunk into utilities, heals, elites, ect as well). The lack of having all my traits unlocked means I need to carefully craft builds around what I do have unlocked. I look forward to earning an additional 200+ skill points or grinding out “mini quests” & dungeons for each character to maximize their potential.

But why is this not implemented anywhere else at level 80? Wouldn’t it be fun to require health/stamina pools to requiring grinding as well? Better yet, think of the other possibilities across the different classes:

Mesmers – Make it so that at level 80 you only have 1 of the 3 illusion slots unlocked. For the other two, make it so that they have to grind out dungeons or commit X amount of hours into playing the character.

Warriors – Make it so that adrenaline bar segments/burst skills are earned through completion of the personal story. That would be so exciting!

Rangers – Make it so that before they can charm a pet on a particular map, they have to have that map 100% completed. Bam wham! Instant fun!

I would love to see the system continue to develop down this path, I’m sure new players appreciate it as well.

Why don’t they just add new things, instead of nerfing people so they feel rewarding.

No one complained that you have to do additional quest to get your new 13th trait unlock.

Now when everyone got accustomed to the old system, and you nerf them so you get rewarded, the results is the exploded complaint on the NPE.

You forgot the /s tag

Sunreva.8714:

Mesmers – Make it so that at level 80 you only have 1 of the 3 illusion slots unlocked. For the other two, make it so that they have to grind out dungeons or commit X amount of hours into playing the character.

RIP Mesmer
It takes nightmarish time and effort to kill anything on mesmer as is.

Vorch.2985:

You forgot the /s tag

Maybe OP should apply to work at Anet?

Gimli.9461:

Sunreva.8714:

Mesmers – Make it so that at level 80 you only have 1 of the 3 illusion slots unlocked. For the other two, make it so that they have to grind out dungeons or commit X amount of hours into playing the character.

RIP Mesmer
It takes nightmarish time and effort to kill anything on mesmer as is.

not really – just need to play different – too many people depended on shatter as their main damage output.

Gimli.9461:

Sunreva.8714:

Mesmers – Make it so that at level 80 you only have 1 of the 3 illusion slots unlocked. For the other two, make it so that they have to grind out dungeons or commit X amount of hours into playing the character.

RIP Mesmer
It takes nightmarish time and effort to kill anything on mesmer as is.

But wouldn’t that be so awesome? Make it so that mesmers need to complete dungeons on explorer mode and collect dungeon tokens to unlock their illusion slots. You know, nothing too bad, like 250 tokens to unlock each one. Sweet!

Elementalists – make is to that they need to buy “Attunement Crystals” for 10 laurels each at the vendor. At character creation, they start off with 1 randomized attunement. Then, to unlock the other 3, they need to visit the laurel vendor to buy the “Fire Crystal”, “Water Crystal”, etc. Awesome!

These unique character progression grinds would nicely compliment the skill point / trait grind that is already required post level 80.

Well no it wouldn’t be awesome because what’s ‘free’ now would be locked.

Adding new character traits/skills that can be unlocked via doing dungeons/challenges etc – that’d be awesome.

And the reason is – you see what player’s reaction is when existing content is deemed not working well and changed. People want new content not changes.

Sunreva.8714:

Gimli.9461:

Sunreva.8714:

Mesmers – Make it so that at level 80 you only have 1 of the 3 illusion slots unlocked. For the other two, make it so that they have to grind out dungeons or commit X amount of hours into playing the character.

RIP Mesmer
It takes nightmarish time and effort to kill anything on mesmer as is.

But wouldn’t that be so awesome? Make it so that mesmers need to complete dungeons on explorer mode and collect dungeon tokens to unlock their illusion slots. You know, nothing too bad, like 250 tokens to unlock each one. Sweet!

Elementalists – make is to that they need to buy “Attunement Crystals” for 10 laurels each at the vendor. At character creation, they start off with 1 randomized attunement. Then, to unlock the other 3, they need to visit the laurel vendor to buy the “Fire Crystal”, “Water Crystal”, etc. Awesome!

These unique character progression grinds would nicely compliment the skill point / trait grind that is already required post level 80.

I understand your point. That is probably why Anet did the change to NPE.

But look at it another way. People can’t play the game to it’s full capacities because every skills is locked.

I dont’ even play after I reach lvl80(map completion). And now you are locking every abilities that I can use to have fun before level80.

I can honestly say, I have much less fun doing my map completion because most of my skills/traits is locked.

I’m not saying what you said is wrong, what I’m saying is if Anet want to change it they should do it 2 years ago

Sunreva.8714:

I’ve played GW2 since the beginning, I was unlucky enough to level 5 characters to 80 before the major changes arrived requiring skill points to unlock traits with skill points.

I didn’t realize how great this system was, until I leveled 2 new characters within the past month to 80. You have two choices when it comes to unlocking your traits, either you can continue grinding “mini quests”, these include quick and simple things such as:

1. Find the grand chest near Scholar Fryxx (bring 3+ mesmer friends with you)
2. Defeat the Risen Priest of Grenth
3. Complete Crucible of Eternity in Story Mode
4. Defeat the Karka Queen
5. Complete the Ruined City of Arah in Story Mode
etc.

OR…you can spend your gold + skill points at the vendor. Luckily though, it only costs 72 skill points to get all the traits in one trait line, or 360 skill points to get all the traits on one character. Not too bad.

As of present, my two “new” level 80’s have probably about 50% of their traits unlocked (remember, skill points are sunk into utilities, heals, elites, ect as well). The lack of having all my traits unlocked means I need to carefully craft builds around what I do have unlocked. I look forward to earning an additional 200+ skill points or grinding out “mini quests” & dungeons for each character to maximize their potential.

But why is this not implemented anywhere else at level 80? Wouldn’t it be fun to require health/stamina pools to requiring grinding as well? Better yet, think of the other possibilities across the different classes:

Mesmers – Make it so that at level 80 you only have 1 of the 3 illusion slots unlocked. For the other two, make it so that they have to grind out dungeons or commit X amount of hours into playing the character.

Warriors – Make it so that adrenaline bar segments/burst skills are earned through completion of the personal story. That would be so exciting!

Rangers – Make it so that before they can charm a pet on a particular map, they have to have that map 100% completed. Bam wham! Instant fun!

I would love to see the system continue to develop down this path, I’m sure new players appreciate it as well.

I think it would have been easier to have a traditional starter area tutorial set of quests than to have to try and have a tutorial without having a tutorial so that it is a confusing, no this isn’t a tutorial (pay no attention to the tutorial hiding behind the gates) type thing.

laokoko.7403:

I dont’ even play after I reach lvl80(map completion). And now you are locking every abilities that I can use to have fun before level80.

I can honestly say, I have much less fun doing my map completion because most of my skills/traits is locked.

That’s precisely my point. Clearly the intent as it is now is to make it so that reaching level 80 is not sufficient to get 100% of out your character (in terms of having all traits/utilities unlocked upon reaching level 80).

So the question is, why stop there? Why not lock other aspects of class development health/stamina bars, adrenaline for warriors, attunements for eles, illusion slots for mesmers, etc? All of these should be reexamined and locked in some way, shape, or form. No seriously, seriously now, imagine having to first receive 100% zone completion as a ranger before you can charm a particular animal on that map. Wouldn’t that be just awesome?

Think of how much more you’ll appreciate your character after all your hard work and everything is unlocked. Lets do this!

Sunreva.8714:

laokoko.7403:

I dont’ even play after I reach lvl80(map completion). And now you are locking every abilities that I can use to have fun before level80.

I can honestly say, I have much less fun doing my map completion because most of my skills/traits is locked.

That’s precisely my point. Clearly the intent as it is now is to make it so that reaching level 80 is not sufficient to get 100% of out your character (in terms of having all traits/utilities unlocked upon reaching level 80).

So the question is, why stop there? Why not lock other aspects of class development health/stamina bars, adrenaline for warriors, attunements for eles, illusion slots for mesmers, etc? All of these should be reexamined and locked in some way, shape, or form. No seriously, seriously now, imagine having to first receive 100% zone completion as a ranger before you can charm a particular animal on that map. Wouldn’t that be just awesome?

Think of how much more you’ll appreciate your character after all your hard work and everything is unlocked. Lets do this!

consider I’m on my 24th lvl80. I reject. At least they should make the system easier for people with multiple alt.

I dont’ mind the system. But it should be account based, not character based.

The reason people have so much problem with this patch(80% of people dont’ like the change to new player experience) is because we are not new players.

and I’m sorry if you didn’t notice, GW2 is one of those games many players make a bunch of alt. I even see people make fun of it on youtube saying when people reach max level, what you do is making new alt.

and dude, dont’ tell me I have to finish the map before I can have fun. I finished the same maps 24 times already.

I don’t think OP is serious about changing the game in this way. I think he is making a point.

Either that or I misread his intentions.

laokoko.7403:

and dude, dont’ tell me I have to finish the map before I can have fun. I finished the same maps 24 times already.

Ya but this is irrelevant. After all, completing dungeons on story mode with character X does not unlock a Grandmaster Trait ( that requires it to be completed) on new character Y. If you made 3 new characters and wanted to unlock the grandmaster trait on each character that requires completing Arah Story Mode, you already have to complete that Arah Story Mode three times (ones for each character).

If you finished Arah Story 24 times already, it doesn’t matter. If you make a 25th character, you already have to finish Arah Story Mode a 25th time (or plunk down the gold/skill points for that particular trait at the vendor). So this logically should be applied to all other means of locked-character progression post level 80.

Sunreva.8714:

Warriors – Make it so that adrenaline bar segments/burst skills are earned through completion of the personal story. That would be so exciting!

Rangers – Make it so that before they can charm a pet on a particular map, they have to have that map 100% completed. Bam wham! Instant fun!

I would love to see the system continue to develop down this path, I’m sure new players appreciate it as well.

I can tell you that would make players actually have to complete the map which now is a choice. And I think that would benefit the normal way of working towards a legendary for example, where you need the gift of exploration.
So I would say it’s a good thing, but then they could also make it a bit easier to charm the pets for rangers by having a pet farm in those maps where you do 1 quest to befriend the NPC and be granted the privilege to charm the pets from the NPC. So players don’t have to run through the whole map again to charm the pets. Or maybe where you could pay maybe x amount between 1 – 10 silver for 1 pet at the NPC. Would compensate you having to put extra effort in to be allowed to even charm the pets by making it a bit easier to get your hands on them.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Vorch.2985:

You forgot the /s tag

Maybe OP should apply to work at Anet?

That’s what I was thinking, they are looking for plenty of people who’ve obviously never played mmo games before otherwise he would have know the sheer staggering number of examples of what to do in place of the grind we’re seeing in GW2. I also find it funny that he conveniently left out the cost of gold for these traits, something that one should never do in an MMO that’s supposedly F2P/Buy once and play for free is tie something you get directly from the shop, like gold for example, into progression. It’s bad enough that you have to buy gold to get the sigils runes you need to play simply because there are no karma vendors with those materials to even craft them yourself. And farming HA I guess we’re playing two different games. Farming died long ago with the use of DR.

Oh and I’ve played since BWE2 back when Engineer could actually do more damage than greatswords because we had explosives in our kitten nal. Sure we might be able to do more DPS in a non-open world environment, but definitely not burst. Anybody who claims that hasn’t played one.

I personally am about to level an artificer once I reach max, just for the backpacks. I’d like to be able to make potions that matter honestly I would. I’ve love temporary use health or stamina potions.

Sunreva.8714:

laokoko.7403:

and dude, dont’ tell me I have to finish the map before I can have fun. I finished the same maps 24 times already.

Ya but this is irrelevant. After all, completing dungeons on story mode with character X does not unlock a Grandmaster Trait ( that requires it to be completed) on new character Y. If you made 3 new characters and wanted to unlock the grandmaster trait on each character that requires completing Arah Story Mode, you already have to complete that Arah Story Mode three times (ones for each character).

If you finished Arah Story 24 times already, it doesn’t matter. If you make a 25th character, you already have to finish Arah Story Mode a 25th time (or plunk down the gold/skill points for that particular trait at the vendor). So this logically should be applied to all other means of locked-character progression post level 80.

The developer implies they are considering making a change to that. I’ll quote it

Finally, I want to add that a few things (hello traits!) are things that can be improved for players who make multiple alts, we’re aware of this, and though company policy prevents us from discussing what’s in development: I can say we know Gw2 can be an even better game for people who love making alts in the long run, more info: when it’s ready™.

MangoMonkey.7582:

I can tell you that would make players actually have to complete the map which now is a choice.

Yes, you’re right. A choice needs to be offered, similar to the trait unlocks. Either you complete a dungeon on story mode OR you purchase from a vendor. So it’ll look like this:

Mesmers – Make it so that at level 80 you only have 1 of the 3 illusion slots unlocked. For the other two, make it so that they have to grind out 250 dungeon tokens for each one. OR… each illusion slot can be purchased at a vendor for 10 gold + 15 skill points.

Warriors – Make it so that adrenaline bar segments/burst skills are earned through completion of the personal story. OR… each adrenaline bar segment can be purchased at a vendor for 10 gold + 15 skill points.

Rangers – Make it so that before they can charm a pet on a particular map, they have to have that map 100% completed. OR… pet packages (containing multiple animals, but not all) from a vendor for 10 gold + 15 skill points.

Elementalists – make is to that they need to buy “Attunement Crystals” for 10 laurels each at the vendor. At character creation, they start off with 1 randomized attunement. Then, to unlock the other 3, they need to visit the laurel vendor to buy the “Fire Crystal”, “Water Crystal”, etc. OR… attunements can be purchased from a vendor for 10 gold + 15 skill points.

etc, etc, etc.

Now players have a choice, so those who don’t want to grind are satisfied. It costs 360 skill points to unlock all the traits on any given character, oh and 43 gold. With the additional character grinds mentioned above, this would add only a marginal increase in gold + skill point costs. But hey, players have a choice!

laokoko.7403:

Sunreva.8714:

laokoko.7403:

and dude, dont’ tell me I have to finish the map before I can have fun. I finished the same maps 24 times already.

Ya but this is irrelevant. After all, completing dungeons on story mode with character X does not unlock a Grandmaster Trait ( that requires it to be completed) on new character Y. If you made 3 new characters and wanted to unlock the grandmaster trait on each character that requires completing Arah Story Mode, you already have to complete that Arah Story Mode three times (ones for each character).

If you finished Arah Story 24 times already, it doesn’t matter. If you make a 25th character, you already have to finish Arah Story Mode a 25th time (or plunk down the gold/skill points for that particular trait at the vendor). So this logically should be applied to all other means of locked-character progression post level 80.

The developer implies they are considering making a change to that. I’ll quote it

Finally, I want to add that a few things (hello traits!) are things that can be improved for players who make multiple alts, we’re aware of this, and though company policy prevents us from discussing what’s in development: I can say we know Gw2 can be an even better game for people who love making alts in the long run, more info: when it’s ready™.

I for one am hoping they remove the gold cost on it, it’s one thing to farm scrolls for points it’s entirely another to try to farm gold it’s really a terrible idea especially considering the problems surrounding getting materials to make sigils and runes some of which require such rare materials you might as well be a whale. /crosses finger

Karma + Skill points would be a good replacement because it would ensure that people would have actually played the game imo.

Sunreva.8714:

MangoMonkey.7582:

I can tell you that would make players actually have to complete the map which now is a choice.

Yes, you’re right. A choice needs to be offered, similar to the trait unlocks. Either you complete a dungeon on story mode OR you purchase from a vendor. So it’ll look like this:

Mesmers – Make it so that at level 80 you only have 1 of the 3 illusion slots unlocked. For the other two, make it so that they have to grind out 250 dungeon tokens for each one. OR… each illusion slot can be purchased at a vendor for 10 gold + 15 skill points.

Warriors – Make it so that adrenaline bar segments/burst skills are earned through completion of the personal story. OR… each adrenaline bar segment can be purchased at a vendor for 10 gold + 15 skill points.

Rangers – Make it so that before they can charm a pet on a particular map, they have to have that map 100% completed. OR… pet packages (containing multiple animals, but not all) from a vendor for 10 gold + 15 skill points.

Elementalists – make is to that they need to buy “Attunement Crystals” for 10 laurels each at the vendor. At character creation, they start off with 1 randomized attunement. Then, to unlock the other 3, they need to visit the laurel vendor to buy the “Fire Crystal”, “Water Crystal”, etc. OR… attunements can be purchased from a vendor for 10 gold + 15 skill points.

etc, etc, etc.

Now players have a choice, so those who don’t want to grind are satisfied. It costs 360 skill points to unlock all the traits on any given character, oh and 43 gold. With the additional character grinds mentioned above, this would add only a marginal increase in gold + skill point costs. But hey, players have a choice!

My problem isn’t with the gold, or grind. My problem is you would be like 100 hours in to the game before you can fully control your characters by getting the abilities unlocked.

So it took 100 hours before you can play the way you want?

It is one thing to lock gear behind grind, but I think locking “abilities” behind grind is too much. Abilities is the basic of how you control your characters.

OP is master level troll. I approve.

laokoko.7403:

My problem isn’t with the gold, or grind. My problem is you would be like 100 hours in to the game before you can fully control your characters by getting the abilities unlocked.

So it took 100 hours before you can play the way you want?

It is one thing to lock gear behind grind, but I think locking “abilities” behind grind is too much. Abilities is the basic of how you control your characters.

Ya but traits are basic character abilities as well. And to be fair, the skillpoint/mini-quest grind that is already required to unlock ALL the traits on a new character, is more than than what this thread pertains to.

I mean, it already takes 360 skill points to unlock all the traits (unless you want to complete dungeons on story mode and do a bunch of quests), you can’t honestly believe that adding another 45 onto that figure would be game breaking?

In my opinion, 360 is actually too little. It should probably doubled, 720 seems about right. Its not difficult to earn levels and scrolls of knowledge are abundant. Character development should be enveloping and time consuming.

Sunreva.8714:

laokoko.7403:

My problem isn’t with the gold, or grind. My problem is you would be like 100 hours in to the game before you can fully control your characters by getting the abilities unlocked.

So it took 100 hours before you can play the way you want?

It is one thing to lock gear behind grind, but I think locking “abilities” behind grind is too much. Abilities is the basic of how you control your characters.

Ya but traits are basic character abilities as well. And to be fair, the skillpoint/mini-quest grind that is already required to unlock ALL the traits on a new character, is more than than what this thread pertains to.

I mean, it already takes 360 skill points to unlock all the traits (unless you want to complete dungeons on story mode and do a bunch of quests), you can’t honestly believe that adding another 45 onto that figure would be game breaking?

In my opinion, 360 is actually too little. It should probable doubled.

I honestly dont’ care about the trait thing, because I got it all unlocked by creating a character before the traits patch. I think most people cared already did it. Maybe that’s why there isn’t that many complaint about the traits patch.

So you are saying Anet should start taking out abilities people already unlocked so they felt rewarding for doing tasks?

No. N. O.

I do not want to have to complete the map to have full access to my character. Or give up skill points or karma or whatever to do so. It’s already BAD enough that when I have to level up alts, that the attuments and other such profession skills are locked behind levels. Now you’re telling me that I may have to suffer with getting water as my attunement as an Ele alt?

Please, go play Ele up to the level where you get water and then proceed to ONLY use the water attunement. For 10 days. because it would take 10 days to get the laurels to buy fire. Please tell me how effective you are at killing things. At getting credit in events.

Did you know that several water skills do no damage but are support and cc? And that those types of skills don’t grant credit for doing events?

No. Your suggestion is bad. There should be no forced grind to get full access to your characters’ skills. That’s why they added in the gold option for the skills to give another way to unlock the traits.

It’s why they’ve realized that the Utility and Elite skills now unlock too late in the game and will fixing that. Because they made it a grind to get full access.

I think the OP’s suggestion is great. Please Anet do that for the expansion. Add in new abilities that is required to unlock.

But stop tweaking or taking out abilities people already have now. The game is out for 2 years already. China have already experienced with the game. Stop nerfing people so they can felt rewarded later on.

The problem is not with OP’s suggestion. The problem is with nerf. And no one like nerf. If you added new traits and put it behind unlocks, people wont’ complain about it as much.

You take away abilities that is previously easy to obtain and put it behind unlock is what make people complaining.

Don’t give them any ideas…

I like this. And after a mesmer created the clone and shattered it, he has to rerun the dungeon in exploration mode to get another clone.

More fun for everyone!

Take away things we’ve had for 2 years and force us to grind them out. Sound like a terrible idea – and I can’t stress the terrible enough.

People didn’t come to this game for vertical grind. At best you can hope for some horizontal grind for item skins.

Mandatory grind is a bad thing that should have nothing to do with this game!

Sunreva.8714:

Sarcastic OP

If you think completing a mission just once is grind, then you have no idea of what it is.

Let me use an example to explain: if you have to throw 4-1000 exotics in the mystic toilet to get a precursor, that’s grind. If you only had to throw 4, then it is just crafting.

Same with the traits. And no, i don’t think unlocking 48 traits one by one is cool or anything, but it’s not a grind either.