Prove that you can finish *something*, Anet.
1 2
Anet has yet to prove that it’s capable of finishing ANYTHING they start working on. These are issues that are dragging on since release. So before moving on to another thing I suggest you turn around and take good look at what you terrible lack of consistency and discipline left in its wake. These are too big to be left in a state they are in right now!
1. Ascended crafting.
- No 500 jewelcrafting
- No jewel socketing on ascended, of course
- No 500 cook.
Ok a few things.
- There is no need to make 500 Jewel Crafting when All Ascended Trinkets can be Bought or Drop.
- Ascended Rings have the stats of an Exotic Ring + Upgrade, and a little bit more.
- Ascended Food? Really? Do we need to go there?
3. Everything related to underwater left in shambles
I have to agree with you, Underwater Comabt in this game is really cool, and they seem to be totally neglecting it, you can’t even dye your breather for pity’s sake.
5. LS season 1 still missing
Huh? I thought it already came and went?
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
You make me wish I could craft a Legendary donut.
You make me wish I could craft a Legendary donut.
Ok that was some serious funny.. I laughed!
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
Ok a few things.
- There is no need to make 500 Jewel Crafting when All Ascended Trinkets can be Bought or Drop.
- Ascended Rings have the stats of an Exotic Ring + Upgrade, and a little bit more.
- Ascended Food? Really? Do we need to go there?
Jewel Crafting 500 can make the ascended trinkets that are harder to get (HoT and future expansions), upgrade old jewels to new ones that are hard to come by or simply don’t exist outside of creating them, or create something entirely different. Remember the Halloween necklaces that have a jewel in them that turns you a different color? There’s an example of what 500 jewel crafting could do. Or how about a set of rare skins? Gemmed weapons and armor, perhaps?
The same goes with 500 skill in cooking. Forget just bigger stats, what about longer duration? Or some cosmetic effect? There’s in-game precedent for food that changes your size, why not some that lasts for 30 minutes and can be used in combat? Or brewing? Imagine a raid/dungeon/fractal where some bad guys can be heard complaining about the lack of good ale before the fight starts. Then, someone finds out that getting a big and difficult to make keg of 500 cooking skill ale and setting it out before the fight causes the NPCs to turn friendly, and unlock a hidden door to a different fight. We don’t have to stick to just the old uses.
Sarcasm, delivered with a
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
delicate, brick-like subtlety.
Being able to craft a Legendary consumable that has endless charges would be pretty cool.
It would wreck the lucrative consumable market that we all use to make mone….oh wait….
(For realism, it would have to be Legendary SPAM or Legendary Blue Cheese, since that kitten never goes bad)
Rehabilitated Elementalist. Now, trolling the Thief forums with my math.
You forgot about the biggest fail so far, namely the the personality trait system.
I wonder how much time and money was spent (wasted) on that while the game was in development?
Sadly, it does seem to sum up the way many things are developed at Anet. Someone has this ‘good’ idea, so they develop it a bit, implement it into the game and then realise they’re not quite sure what they were trying to achieve in the first place and it gets dropped or forgotten about.
don’t forget the atlas.
I guess Anet never finished EoTM or the personal wardrobe, or Living Story Season 2. Anet has finished many things, and they’ve abandoned others, pretty much like every MMO I’ve ever played.
For example, Anet never actually claimed LS Season 1 was coming back. They made it and finished it.
They said they’d like to bring it back eventually but it was never something they actually worked on, because they’re doing other stuff. Saying they haven’t completed something that was completed doesn’t really add anything to your point.
In fact, in MMOs most things aren’t really supposed to be finished. They’re always moving on.
I mean Guild Halls are finished, but they’re going to add more Guild Halls I’m sure.
Bringing Jewelry to 500 or cooking would be cool, but they’ve always been the odd man out in crafting anyway. Weapons and armor are all finished. Ascended jewelry we do have other ways to get.
I guess Anet never finished EoTM or the personal wardrobe, or Living Story Season 2. Anet has finished many things, and they’ve abandoned others, pretty much like every MMO I’ve ever played.
In fact, in MMOs most things aren’t really supposed to be finished. They’re always moving on.
I mean Guild Halls are finished, but they’re going to add more Guild Halls I’m sure.
Guild Halls aren’t finished, several people reported they’ve done all the upgrades and are stuck in the 60s. Unless there is another way to level.
I guess Anet never finished EoTM or the personal wardrobe, or Living Story Season 2. Anet has finished many things, and they’ve abandoned others, pretty much like every MMO I’ve ever played.
In fact, in MMOs most things aren’t really supposed to be finished. They’re always moving on.
I mean Guild Halls are finished, but they’re going to add more Guild Halls I’m sure.
Guild Halls aren’t finished, several people reported they’ve done all the upgrades and are stuck in the 60s. Unless there is another way to level.
wouldent say wardrobe is finished either since we still dont have all the spvp skins able to be unlocked.
I guess Anet never finished EoTM or the personal wardrobe, or Living Story Season 2. Anet has finished many things, and they’ve abandoned others, pretty much like every MMO I’ve ever played.
In fact, in MMOs most things aren’t really supposed to be finished. They’re always moving on.
I mean Guild Halls are finished, but they’re going to add more Guild Halls I’m sure.
Guild Halls aren’t finished, several people reported they’ve done all the upgrades and are stuck in the 60s. Unless there is another way to level.
wouldent say wardrobe is finished either since we still dont have all the spvp skins able to be unlocked.
The wardrobe is finished. That it doesn’t contain all the skins, well it’s NEVER going to contain all the skins, simply because new skins come out all the time. How many skins or which skins doesn’t mean as a feature the wardrobe isn’t finished.
Jewel Crafting 500 can make the ascended trinkets that are harder to get (HoT and future expansions), upgrade old jewels to new ones that are hard to come by or simply don’t exist outside of creating them, or create something entirely different. Remember the Halloween necklaces that have a jewel in them that turns you a different color? There’s an example of what 500 jewel crafting could do. Or how about a set of rare skins? Gemmed weapons and armor, perhaps?
The same goes with 500 skill in cooking. Forget just bigger stats, what about longer duration? Or some cosmetic effect? There’s in-game precedent for food that changes your size, why not some that lasts for 30 minutes and can be used in combat? Or brewing? Imagine a raid/dungeon/fractal where some bad guys can be heard complaining about the lack of good ale before the fight starts. Then, someone finds out that getting a big and difficult to make keg of 500 cooking skill ale and setting it out before the fight causes the NPCs to turn friendly, and unlock a hidden door to a different fight. We don’t have to stick to just the old uses.
Nice ideas, but I think trying to make stuff like that happen, would be a lot more work then it sounds like, which might be why nothing is happening on their end.
There are two kinds of gamers, salty, and extra salty
I guess Anet never finished EoTM or the personal wardrobe, or Living Story Season 2. Anet has finished many things, and they’ve abandoned others, pretty much like every MMO I’ve ever played.
In fact, in MMOs most things aren’t really supposed to be finished. They’re always moving on.
I mean Guild Halls are finished, but they’re going to add more Guild Halls I’m sure.
Guild Halls aren’t finished, several people reported they’ve done all the upgrades and are stuck in the 60s. Unless there is another way to level.
I’m not sure that there’s supposed to be a specific top level of tier. I’m sure more will be added, but as a feature the Guild Halls are finished.
Obviously anything ongoing needs to leave room for expansion. As an example, Living World Season 2 is finished, but the Living story goes on.
The Guild Hall is finished because you can max it out. Why does saying you got to the mid 60s matter at all. Are we saying it was supposed to go to level 80 or something, because I never saw that claim.
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
2) I never heard of any of these “promises”, just ideas bandied about.
3) While I myself enjoy underwater combat, I fear the vast majority of the players don’t which is why it’s sort of being abandoned. And I don’t have an issue that some utility skills don’t work underwater.
4) New Legendary Weapons dropped … for now. We did get our craftable pre-cursors for existing Legendary Weapons. Lets get the game back up on it’s feet first.
5) They have said numerous times that coming up with a way to make at least portions of LS 1 replayable will require a lot of work. They’ve never said when it would ever be released, just looked at.
6) SAB not being finished … I agree that finishing the last two SAB worlds, as SAB is limited time annual content, wouldn’t be a good use of dev time with the game in it’s current state.
We are heroes. This is what we do!
RIP City of Heroes
RIP City of Heroes
Ok a few things.
- There is no need to make 500 Jewel Crafting when All Ascended Trinkets can be Bought or Drop.
- Ascended Rings have the stats of an Exotic Ring + Upgrade, and a little bit more.
- Ascended Food? Really? Do we need to go there?
I’m sorry but that logic is completely unacceptable to me, because by that line of reasoning we didn’t need all the other crafts raised to 500 because Anet could have simply put all the gear into laurel vendors/fractals/guild rewards.
It was initially put into the game that way to “ease us in” into ascended stuff, but judging by the amount of unfinished stuff that came after, I suspect that this could well be the case here too.
If you look into your material tab (if they haven’t removed them by now lol) there are still ascended material that cannot be seen, found or crafted anywhere in the game. Take a wild guess what they were for.
Design wise exotic jewelery is superior. It offers players flexibility and allows freedom to tweak their builds through jewels and above all it was open to market. Instead, now we are dealing with account bound inflexible stat combos. They could have put ascended jewelery with ascended jewels that make up sum total of current ascended stats, but that’s work.
As for ascended food I believe Palador illustrated potential benefits better than I ever could.
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
2) I never heard of any of these “promises”, just ideas bandied about.
3) While I myself enjoy underwater combat, I fear the vast majority of the players don’t which is why it’s sort of being abandoned. And I don’t have an issue that some utility skills don’t work underwater.
4) New Legendary Weapons dropped … for now. We did get our craftable pre-cursors for existing Legendary Weapons. Lets get the game back up on it’s feet first.
5) They have said numerous times that coming up with a way to make at least portions of LS 1 replayable will require a lot of work. They’ve never said when it would ever be released, just looked at.
6) SAB not being finished … I agree that finishing the last two SAB worlds, as SAB is limited time annual content, wouldn’t be a good use of dev time with the game in it’s current state.
This ^
Member of Alpha Swedish Gaming Community – http://www.alphas.se/
Guild Leader of Alpha Sgc [ASGC]
Guild Leader of Alpha Sgc [ASGC]
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)
There’s also the Xunlai Ingot
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)
There’s also the Xunlai Ingot
Do you wonder why anet are so silent now days?
Member of Alpha Swedish Gaming Community – http://www.alphas.se/
Guild Leader of Alpha Sgc [ASGC]
Guild Leader of Alpha Sgc [ASGC]
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)
There’s also the Xunlai Ingot
From the same article:
“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”
Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.
They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.
I agree fully with the post, I have been playing since BETA and I am very worried for any promises that ANET might make in the future because as the author points out, nothing gets completed. And its a feeling I feel the entire community having. I just love how they always say how much SAB is loved and enjoyed by the the community, how its the most anticipated event. And then they don’t finish it and don’t bring it out for 2 years. I think once they finish it, it could actually become part of the game and can contain one of the most enjoyable precursor hunts ever. Please ANET FINISH SOMETHING.
I remember when the game was released, sure they didn’t have raids (why not stop raid development if anything since its only a tiny portion of the community that is doing them) and living world to do, but they made interesting events i.e halloween, christmas, SAB ect, without any one asking. But now its just a falling out of broken promises and unfinished content.
Please fix the SAB aura’s to actually make them look like something I want to show people i spent 70+ hours farming.
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)
There’s also the Xunlai Ingot
From the same article:
“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”
Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.
They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.
When someone says “We are raising crafts to 500 but as we iterate they are subject to change” the reasonable assumption is that said systems already exist and are being modified and iterated upon, not that they are completely gutted (if there was anything to gut in the first place) and removed from the game.
Since we are comparing stuff.
Customer commissioned me to make a four legged table and I deliver them table with only two legs and I also brought bunch of books to be put in place of missing legs. Naturally customer is kittened. But then another guy who also bought it starts defending me and my two legged table telling my latest customer how he/she should be grateful for having any legs at all and that books are perfectly good substitute.
This is what’s happening right now.
Interpreting such vague statements in a way you’re doing is a basically a blank check for never finishing anything and freedom from responsibility for not delivering listed stuff. The future posts like “Looking ahead” should, by that logic, probably contain only one sentence:
“Do not expect anything.”
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)
There’s also the Xunlai Ingot
From the same article:
“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”
Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.
They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.
You should sit down and have a one on one with your marketing team if the same article states “We are going to do this very exact thing!” and “We might not do that very exact thing if we test and decide it’s not a good idea to do it”
In my profession, I just usually wait until after I do the testing part before doing the telling part.
But, hey, why bother with that when you have a squadron of fanboy posters ready to prove, via their own unique interpretation of marketing material, that Anet has never promised nor failed to deliver anything ever, even the things they promised and never delivered?
Rehabilitated Elementalist. Now, trolling the Thief forums with my math.
I guess Anet never finished EoTM or the personal wardrobe, or Living Story Season 2. Anet has finished many things, and they’ve abandoned others, pretty much like every MMO I’ve ever played.
In fact, in MMOs most things aren’t really supposed to be finished. They’re always moving on.
I mean Guild Halls are finished, but they’re going to add more Guild Halls I’m sure.
Anet said, several times, in live streams the max level for the guild hall is 80.
Guild Halls aren’t finished, several people reported they’ve done all the upgrades and are stuck in the 60s. Unless there is another way to level.
I’m not sure that there’s supposed to be a specific top level of tier. I’m sure more will be added, but as a feature the Guild Halls are finished.
Obviously anything ongoing needs to leave room for expansion. As an example, Living World Season 2 is finished, but the Living story goes on.
The Guild Hall is finished because you can max it out. Why does saying you got to the mid 60s matter at all. Are we saying it was supposed to go to level 80 or something, because I never saw that claim.
Anet said, several times, that the guild hall max level is 80. Also, several guild hall upgrades are disabled. When those upgrades are re-enable, we should be able to reach level 80.
I don’t agree with everything in this topic, not all the examples are a good fit, however… the sentiment certainly rings true. HoT was supposed to be a solution, not a source of new problems. They were supposed to have finally nailed the direction of the game down. Yet, there haven’t been that many positive things happening after HoT.
The lack of live content that appeals to the majority of the player base keeps going on… before HoT it was understandable and most people were okay with it, but now as the same drought continues mixed with a dose of less than good news I doubt we can say the same.
Also, people are expecting the moon from this April update. Too bad there will likely be no actual content in it. While they have said as much to be fair even then people will have unreasonable expectations. I feel especially sorry for the WvW folks. Sure they will get their Alpine borderlands back, at some point, but they have also subsequently lost one of the biggest features HoT was advertised to them with (whether they ended up liking it or not).
We seem to be loosing more things than we are gaining by this expansion pack. I know the developers are trying, but that is just how I honestly feel in retrospect. They said that the expansion was to lay the groundwork for future, however, the two arguably successful systems that we got have remained stagnant and the third was iced with the recent announcement about legendaries.
People like you need to stop going on about LW S1, you missed it, deal with it. Go read about it on wiki.
There was too much going on in open world that its simply too hard to even put it as a story, and after all, if they drop only 6 people who were working on legendaries, why in the world would they put 10-15 people to work on something that passed 2 years ago, it wouldnt bring any money and it would slow future content.
You cant just get in a game after few years and DEMAND you get what you missed.
Mesmerizing
I am very worried for any promises that ANET might make in the future
I think once they finish it, it could actually become part of the game and can contain one of the most enjoyable precursor hunts ever.
Well you’d better just hope they don’t promise that then, right?
Blame Abaddon, he loves your tears.
pve, raid, pvp, fractal, dungeon, world clearing, legendary questing.. Zapped!
pve, raid, pvp, fractal, dungeon, world clearing, legendary questing.. Zapped!
Honestly, I love that SAB came back, but at the same time…it did just remind me that its still in the same spot even after all this time.
No new levels.
No new upgrades.
No progress on the whole story mystery even going on with the thing! Gah! What did that genie mean?!
Also, I really wish I could have nun-chuck swords…
You cant just get in a game after few years and DEMAND you get what you missed.
I’ve been around since release and I’ve played through Season 1. I know this may sound strange to you, but it was actually selfless suggestion and call for more consistent and more polished experience for ALL.
So maybe people like YOU should stop demanding me to do this or that, from a perspective of baseless assumptions.
Anet has yet to prove that it’s capable of finishing ANYTHING they start working on. These are issues that are dragging on since release. So before moving on to another thing I suggest you turn around and take good look at what you terrible lack of consistency and discipline left in its wake. These are too big to be left in a state they are in right now!
1. Ascended crafting.
- No 500 jewelcrafting
- No jewel socketing on ascended, of course
- No 500 cook.
2. Still no sign of full core skill sets that were promised eons ago.
- Elementalist (conjure heal, arcane elite, signet elite)
- Warrior (banner heal, physical heal, Mending undefined, elite stance, elite shout)
- Ranger (signet heal, elite trap, elite signet)
- Necromancer (spectral heal, elite signet, elite well)
- Guardian (spirit weapon heal, consecration heal, Shelter undefined, elite spirit weapon, elite consecration)
- Thief (trap heal, elite signet, elite trap)
- Engineer (gadget heal, elite gadget)
- Mesmer (glamour heal, Ether Feast undefined, clone/phantasm heal, elite mantra, elite clone/phantasm)
3. Everything related to underwater left in shambles
- No second Revenant underwater weapon.
- Ton of skills not working underwater across all classes
- discontinued production of underwater skins
4. Legendary weapons dropped
5. LS season 1 still missing
6. SAB never going to get finished
Probably I’m missing more stuff that’s just dropped unfinished into the game, but to me these are the biggest, most glaring issues that need to be addressed.
As a GW lore buff, I could make a list of unfinished and abandoned story lines. However, I think I’ll hit the character limit. I think I’ll just make a short list of the most obvious ones.
- Eir took Magdaer from the catacombs of ascalon, then Eir dies, and nothing is done with Magdaer.
- In GW1 the Scepter of Orr was picked up by Livia, aaaaaaaannnnd nothing.
- The personal stories at the start of the game, the ones that are unique to each story line have loose endings, almost none of those have been explored; including but not limited to: The Sylvari from the Maguuma jungle, the feud between the human throne and the ministry, any of the asura inventions, the list goes on.
- Anything with the captains council the lion guard was surprisingly absent after they rebuilt lions arch during the mordremonth attack. I didn’t even see them, with their new ships, providing any relief. It’s as if the lionguard was totally forgotten.
- Orr being purified, it’s been a few years and there has been 0 progression on that front.
- pretty much ANY of the dungeon stories, story mode or explorable stories. Crucible of Eternity, Arah, Citadel of flame, ect.
- We still have no idea what Fractals of the Mist actually is or is about. We had one short story when the Thumanova Reactor was released then nothing.
- Anything about the human gods. Seriously we have no idea what happened after the exodus or why the hell they stopped talking to us.
I think I’ll cut it there. The list would go on for a while.
(edited by Maximillian Greil.1965)
As a GW lore buff, I could make a list of unfinished and abandoned story lines. However, I think I’ll hit the character limit. I think I’ll just make a short list of the most obvious ones.
- Eir took Magdaer from the catacombs of ascalon, then Eir dies, and nothing is done with Magdaer.
- In GW1 the Scepter of Orr was picked up by Livia, aaaaaaaannnnd nothing.
- The personal stories at the start of the game, the ones that are unique to each story line have loose endings, almost none of those have been explored; including but not limited to: The Sylvari from the Maguuma jungle, the feud between the human throne and the ministry, any of the asura inventions, the list goes on.
- Anything with the captains council the lion guard was surprisingly absent after they rebuilt lions arch during the mordremonth attack. I didn’t even see them, with their new ships, providing any relief. It’s as if the lionguard was totally forgotten.
- Orr being purified, it’s been a few years and there has been 0 progression on that front.
- pretty much ANY of the dungeon stories, story mode or explorable stories. Crucible of Eternity, Arah, Citadel of flame, ect.
- We still have no idea what Fractals of the Mist actually is or is about. We had one short story when the Thumanova Reactor was released then nothing.
- Anything about the human gods. Seriously we have no idea what happened after the exodus or why the hell they stopped talking to us.
I think I’ll cut it there. The list would go on for a while.
This is actually excellent list. Each race has some sort of antagonist through which we are familiarized with the struggles of that race, but they aren’t leading anywhere. There’s enough potential story material there to last for years.
As a GW lore buff, I could make a list of unfinished and abandoned story lines. However, I think I’ll hit the character limit. I think I’ll just make a short list of the most obvious ones.
- Eir took Magdaer from the catacombs of ascalon, then Eir dies, and nothing is done with Magdaer.
- In GW1 the Scepter of Orr was picked up by Livia, aaaaaaaannnnd nothing.
- The personal stories at the start of the game, the ones that are unique to each story line have loose endings, almost none of those have been explored; including but not limited to: The Sylvari from the Maguuma jungle, the feud between the human throne and the ministry, any of the asura inventions, the list goes on.
- Anything with the captains council the lion guard was surprisingly absent after they rebuilt lions arch during the mordremonth attack. I didn’t even see them, with their new ships, providing any relief. It’s as if the lionguard was totally forgotten.
- Orr being purified, it’s been a few years and there has been 0 progression on that front.
- pretty much ANY of the dungeon stories, story mode or explorable stories. Crucible of Eternity, Arah, Citadel of flame, ect.
- We still have no idea what Fractals of the Mist actually is or is about. We had one short story when the Thumanova Reactor was released then nothing.
- Anything about the human gods. Seriously we have no idea what happened after the exodus or why the hell they stopped talking to us.
I think I’ll cut it there. The list would go on for a while.
This is actually excellent list. Each race has some sort of antagonist through which we are familiarized with the struggles of that race, but they aren’t leading anywhere. There’s enough potential story material there to last for years.
I wouldn’t even mind a small update. Just… anything. Some lines of text off an npc, a blog post like they used to do, even a small graphical change or some npc chatter somewhere. ANYTHING, doesn’t have to be huge, but just something that reminds us that they still think about the loose ends in their story.
It is like they have a low attention span, they work on a great idea for a bit but then get distracted by the next great idea.
Underwater combat is in essence a great idea, but instead of fleshing it out for the expansion they completely change direction and created gliding, which is only half-heartedly implemented. Lots of areas still lack gliding and none of the HoT gliding features have been implemented into the base game, updrafts, ley line, etc.
I am not bitter or angry, but each year that passed we are left with more content that needs finished or fleshed out. Instead of fixing WvW and expanding on Fractals they work on new ideas like PvP Tournaments and Raids.
Even my personal favourite SAB, has not progressed towards completion in years. I hope Arena Net can focus more on completing and fleshing out features in the near future as this list is starting to get very long indeed.
Edit – They left personal instance’s unfinished to work on guild halls, plus decorating was never retroactively added to personal instance.
“I am Evon Gnashblade and this message is acceptable to me.”
(edited by Aedelric.1287)
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)
There’s also the Xunlai Ingot
From the same article:
“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”
Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.
They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.
You’re making a completely different argument than that quote was meant to express. Context matters. If you read it, Behellagh said that the players made the presumption that the two crafts would be expanded to 500. The quote shows that it was not an assumption made by the players, but it was based on actual information given by ANET.
Also, anyone who is using the “And you wonder why ANET doesn’t communicate with players” argument: Yeah, it’s super unreasonable to expect that people mean what they say. Why is it that in this format, it’s suddenly inappropriate to use official communication as a fact of intention? This is on the same level as politicians who make stupid statements and then say, “That was not intended to be a factual statement.”
You say things like that, and then you turn around and act like anyone who questions the various development plans that are currently “on the table” are people who just want to complain about everything and if ANET says they’re doing something, then they’re doing it and that’s that.
How do you even live with that kind of cognitive dissonance going on? It boggles the mind.
“Be angry about legendary weapons, sure, but what about the recent drought of content?”
-Mike O’Brien
Because we can’t be angry about both?
-Mike O’Brien
Because we can’t be angry about both?
Anet has yet to prove that it’s capable of finishing ANYTHING they start working on. These are issues that are dragging on since release. So before moving on to another thing I suggest you turn around and take good look at what you terrible lack of consistency and discipline left in its wake. These are too big to be left in a state they are in right now!
1. Ascended crafting.
- No 500 jewelcrafting maybe introduce legendary trinkets…. the mats are already available in the storage, I’d see something costing vision crystal(s), amalgemated gemstones and xunlai electrum (likely a fusion of silver, gold, platinum and a basic mat made from a bronze and orichalcum and a gift made from a salvaged gift of exploration (gives 5 pieces to use in a jewel set) with 100 ecto, a +12 agony infusion and a gift of battle.
- No jewel socketing on ascended, of course (ascended Trinkets used to come with double stats 1 for the trinket 1 for the respective jewel)
- No 500 cook. Legendary food, chef of the stars?, I can see uses for this BUT food as is is already incredibly powerfull.. Should we add another stat (3 stat food) or should we add more of the 2 stats???
2. Still no sign of full core skill sets that were promised eons ago.
- Elementalist (conjure heal, arcane elite, signet elite)
- Warrior (banner heal, physical heal, Mending undefined, elite stance, elite shout)
- Ranger (signet heal, elite trap, elite signet)
- Necromancer (spectral heal, elite signet, elite well)
- Guardian (spirit weapon heal, consecration heal, Shelter undefined, elite spirit weapon, elite consecration)
- Thief (trap heal, elite signet, elite trap)
- Engineer (gadget heal, elite gadget)
- Mesmer (glamour heal, Ether Feast undefined, clone/phantasm heal, elite mantra, elite clone/phantasm)
well… agreeing on this fully, but we did get new skill sets, we’re justy lacking the -complete- basic sets…3. Everything related to underwater left in shambles
- No second Revenant underwater weapon.
- Ton of skills not working underwater across all classes
- discontinued production of underwater skins
well as targetting AOE fields underwater was difficuylt it was largely skipped, maybe they should have considered an orb-area of effect around the target for underwater spells… though traps would be a problem as the area of trigger would need to be an orb as well and no longer a point. Even though traps underwater exist (see mines in fractals, the quaggan paddle guild mission in frostgorge, mines in Orr (see waters near temple of Melandru)
As underwater seems less interesting obviously underwater legendaries and BL skins were discontinued…. there are legendary skins AND BL skins, thoug their value is often less then 1/5th of other skins! As such it’s evident underater fighting is less intersting, also the lack of builds and synergies for underwater fighting seem a problem and are asking for a rework… to have only a crippled build to use underwater is no fun. (now try and find builds which synergize both above and below the water…
4. Legendary weapons dropped
yes… A shame, but I prefer content over skins. simply said I prefer content over everything. and whenever there appear new skins:
- preferably skins available through content (LS/events),
- preferably no reskins for content not related to previous content,
- then skins with attached collections,
- then content locked skins ( precursors/legendaries, boss drops, preferably also buyable with tokens (or collections) so content will guarantee drops after say 25-50 tries)
- then basic skins not through content
- and last skins behind pay walls (BLTP and Outfits) even though they are nice I’ll never finish a BL collection, just because I will never get keys (well make that rarely)
5. LS season 1 still missing
well liviung story 12 isn’t missing, I played it, It’s not replayable, I would love to see some of this content reinstated. even if it was only temporary (return of the toxic tower and the dungeon path, which was split in pieces or the return of the Zephyrites, or the aetherblades, the Marionette. and of course a reinstatement of the Queen’s Pavillion.6. SAB never going to get finished
It returned… I have no bond with SAB other then the players who like it. I’m glad ppl can replay the content. I’d prefer new Living story and maps over SAB world 3Probably I’m missing more stuff that’s just dropped unfinished into the game, but to me these are the biggest, most glaring issues that need to be addressed.
23 lvl 80’s, 9 times map, 4ele, 4ncr, 3war, 3grd, 3rgr, 2thf, 2msm, 1eng, 1 rev.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.
Been There, Done That & Will do it again…except maybe world completion.
(edited by PaxTheGreatOne.9472)
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)
There’s also the Xunlai Ingot
From the same article:
“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”
Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.
They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.
This goes back to communication and managing customer’s expectations. It should not be the customer’s responsibility to guess whether they “did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it”.
If you state an intention and then later change your mind, it is your responsibility to communicate your new intention. It is not unreasonable for customers to expect you to follow through with your original intention if you have not communicated that you have “changed your mind.”
There will doubtless be someone who rushes to point out that ANet doesn’t want to communicate that kind of thing because people on the forums respond angrily. To which I will respond: Of course they respond angrily. That’s often how people respond when you back out of commitments.
The concept of “Things are subject to change” is not some kind of magical “Get out of jail free” card that absolves them from any level of responsibility to honor their commitments.
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)
There’s also the Xunlai Ingot
From the same article:
“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”
Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.
They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.
When someone says “We are raising crafts to 500 but as we iterate they are subject to change” the reasonable assumption is that said systems already exist and are being modified and iterated upon, not that they are completely gutted (if there was anything to gut in the first place) and removed from the game.
Since we are comparing stuff.
Customer commissioned me to make a four legged table and I deliver them table with only two legs and I also brought bunch of books to be put in place of missing legs. Naturally customer is kittened. But then another guy who also bought it starts defending me and my two legged table telling my latest customer how he/she should be grateful for having any legs at all and that books are perfectly good substitute.
This is what’s happening right now.Interpreting such vague statements in a way you’re doing is a basically a blank check for never finishing anything and freedom from responsibility for not delivering listed stuff. The future posts like “Looking ahead” should, by that logic, probably contain only one sentence:
“Do not expect anything.”
Sorry but saying that I’m going to deliver something that later changes to the game make not useful isn’t the same thing as what you’re saying.
They simply didn’t see how adding jewelry would improve the game in my opinion. I don’t think it would improve my game.
The ascended armor and weapons were mat sinks. There’s just no reason to believe most people would be interested in upping their jewelry crafting.
In Anet’s blog post about iteration they did say they sometimes scrap entire systems if they don’t end up being what they want to be.
And it’s not like tons of people love ascended crafting anyway.
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)
There’s also the Xunlai Ingot
From the same article:
“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”
Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.
They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.
You’re making a completely different argument than that quote was meant to express. Context matters. If you read it, Behellagh said that the players made the presumption that the two crafts would be expanded to 500. The quote shows that it was not an assumption made by the players, but it was based on actual information given by ANET.
Also, anyone who is using the “And you wonder why ANET doesn’t communicate with players” argument: Yeah, it’s super unreasonable to expect that people mean what they say. Why is it that in this format, it’s suddenly inappropriate to use official communication as a fact of intention? This is on the same level as politicians who make stupid statements and then say, “That was not intended to be a factual statement.”
You say things like that, and then you turn around and act like anyone who questions the various development plans that are currently “on the table” are people who just want to complain about everything and if ANET says they’re doing something, then they’re doing it and that’s that.
How do you even live with that kind of cognitive dissonance going on? It boggles the mind.
I live with it quite easily because I know the company is doing stuff that I like. I was told straight out we wouldn’t have gliding in core Tyria, but we do.
I find that adds to my game a lot more than more raids being out, or even more legendary weapons. It’s something I use frequently.
That’s how I live with it. I don’t get everything I want, and sometimes I don’t even get everything mentioned, but I get other stuff I didn’t expect to get.
As a GW lore buff, I could make a list of unfinished and abandoned story lines. However, I think I’ll hit the character limit. I think I’ll just make a short list of the most obvious ones.
- Eir took Magdaer from the catacombs of ascalon, then Eir dies, and nothing is done with Magdaer.
- In GW1 the Scepter of Orr was picked up by Livia, aaaaaaaannnnd nothing.
- The personal stories at the start of the game, the ones that are unique to each story line have loose endings, almost none of those have been explored; including but not limited to: The Sylvari from the Maguuma jungle, the feud between the human throne and the ministry, any of the asura inventions, the list goes on.
- Anything with the captains council the lion guard was surprisingly absent after they rebuilt lions arch during the mordremonth attack. I didn’t even see them, with their new ships, providing any relief. It’s as if the lionguard was totally forgotten.
- Orr being purified, it’s been a few years and there has been 0 progression on that front.
- pretty much ANY of the dungeon stories, story mode or explorable stories. Crucible of Eternity, Arah, Citadel of flame, ect.
- We still have no idea what Fractals of the Mist actually is or is about. We had one short story when the Thumanova Reactor was released then nothing.
- Anything about the human gods. Seriously we have no idea what happened after the exodus or why the hell they stopped talking to us.
I think I’ll cut it there. The list would go on for a while.
but. but. they don’t have our favorite flat stus Destiny’s edge 2.0
you forgot HoT story, rushed to hell, too many loose ends, rytlock is an example of chekov’s gun and malyck is missing and forgotten. and somehow they forgot about our role as commander of the pact during season 1, HoT was an exception and the last few episodes of season 2 but it was kitten terrible on how they handled it.
You cant just get in a game after few years and DEMAND you get what you missed.
I’ve been around since release and I’ve played through Season 1. I know this may sound strange to you, but it was actually selfless suggestion and call for more consistent and more polished experience for ALL.
So maybe people like YOU should stop demanding me to do this or that, from a perspective of baseless assumptions.
Just want to chime in here… I am also someone who was around for practically the entire of season 1. I have played varying degrees of every single update put into this game.
I would still jump at the chance to replay that content, maybe a bit of it is due to rose-colored spectacles at this point, but while the idea of one time things happening in the game world is cool ultimately removal of any content is a disservice to the game.
Thinking back to LS1 model, the updates kept coming thick and fast, and that was cool then, however, the situation was literally devs trying to keep up a breakneck pace for their 15 minutes of fame in the limelight (well it was two weeks, but you get the point).
ArenaNet has a problem though, and that is setting expectations far beyond for what they have actually been able to deliver. I mean, they set an expectation for some players that “there will always be something to do” and now that they have transitioned to a model where this is not as true of a sentiment as it used to be the lack of content hurts people with those kinds of expectations even more.
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)
There’s also the Xunlai Ingot
From the same article:
“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”
Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.
They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.
When someone says “We are raising crafts to 500 but as we iterate they are subject to change” the reasonable assumption is that said systems already exist and are being modified and iterated upon, not that they are completely gutted (if there was anything to gut in the first place) and removed from the game.
Since we are comparing stuff.
Customer commissioned me to make a four legged table and I deliver them table with only two legs and I also brought bunch of books to be put in place of missing legs. Naturally customer is kittened. But then another guy who also bought it starts defending me and my two legged table telling my latest customer how he/she should be grateful for having any legs at all and that books are perfectly good substitute.
This is what’s happening right now.Interpreting such vague statements in a way you’re doing is a basically a blank check for never finishing anything and freedom from responsibility for not delivering listed stuff. The future posts like “Looking ahead” should, by that logic, probably contain only one sentence:
“Do not expect anything.”Sorry but saying that I’m going to deliver something that later changes to the game make not useful isn’t the same thing as what you’re saying.
They simply didn’t see how adding jewelry would improve the game in my opinion. I don’t think it would improve my game.
The ascended armor and weapons were mat sinks. There’s just no reason to believe most people would be interested in upping their jewelry crafting.
In Anet’s blog post about iteration they did say they sometimes scrap entire systems if they don’t end up being what they want to be.
And it’s not like tons of people love ascended crafting anyway.
You wot mate? What you said is completely ridiculous! I’ve read some of your posts and I know you’re smart guy, so I refuse to believe that your rhetoric is unintentional apologetics!
By that… “logic” you could easily ask: why should anything be added ever?
There’s no reason to believe people would be interested? Again such vague statements you can apply to pretty much anything. If they made it people would do it. If nothing else then to get achievements for 500 crafting.
- Why do we have karma exotics when we can craft them?
- Why do we have crafting when we have karma gear?
- Why do we have jewelery at all when we can cram all those stats into armor?
- Why do we have all those items when we can wear only one amulet like in pvp
etc etc etc
I mean who would be interested in all that stuff, there’s just not enough reason to believe that. How about doing it for the sake of consistency and comprehensibility of your game, for providing alternative venues of acquisition and because it’s a logical progression path?
Ascended crafting is kitten because you have to brute force it and then sink insane amounts of resources to get a full set. Now if Anet had spread that material load across more crafting professions like.. jewelcrafting for example, individual pieces would be easier to obtain and you would make it more bearable and maybe less people would hate it, myself included.
Now, I know you latched onto ascended because its easy to defend it with same tired phrases I’ve seen parroted countless times, but this is not just about ascended and I am done responding to you because I don’t think you’ve entered this thread with your mind open enough to have your mind changed. Regardless of what you say, the facts stays. Crafting. Is. Not. Complete. The table is two legged. And that’s what this thread is about among other things.
(edited by Zergs.9715)
Anet has demonstrated that they can finish, “something,” just not that they can finish, “everything.”
As a GW lore buff, I could make a list of unfinished and abandoned story lines. However, I think I’ll hit the character limit. I think I’ll just make a short list of the most obvious ones.
- Eir took Magdaer from the catacombs of ascalon, then Eir dies, and nothing is done with Magdaer.
- In GW1 the Scepter of Orr was picked up by Livia, aaaaaaaannnnd nothing.
- The personal stories at the start of the game, the ones that are unique to each story line have loose endings, almost none of those have been explored; including but not limited to: The Sylvari from the Maguuma jungle, the feud between the human throne and the ministry, any of the asura inventions, the list goes on.
- Anything with the captains council the lion guard was surprisingly absent after they rebuilt lions arch during the mordremonth attack. I didn’t even see them, with their new ships, providing any relief. It’s as if the lionguard was totally forgotten.
- Orr being purified, it’s been a few years and there has been 0 progression on that front.
- pretty much ANY of the dungeon stories, story mode or explorable stories. Crucible of Eternity, Arah, Citadel of flame, ect.
- We still have no idea what Fractals of the Mist actually is or is about. We had one short story when the Thumanova Reactor was released then nothing.
- Anything about the human gods. Seriously we have no idea what happened after the exodus or why the hell they stopped talking to us.
I think I’ll cut it there. The list would go on for a while.
but. but. they don’t have our favorite flat stus Destiny’s edge 2.0
you forgot HoT story, rushed to hell, too many loose ends, rytlock is an example of chekov’s gun and malyck is missing and forgotten. and somehow they forgot about our role as commander of the pact during season 1, HoT was an exception and the last few episodes of season 2 but it was kitten terrible on how they handled it.
I said it wasn’t an exhaustive list =P It’s just sooooooooo many things that haven’t even been touched, and not that they haven’t been touched for a few months, or even a year….. they haven’t been touched for YEARS.
People like you need to stop going on about LW S1, you missed it, deal with it. Go read about it on wiki.
There was too much going on in open world that its simply too hard to even put it as a story, and after all, if they drop only 6 people who were working on legendaries, why in the world would they put 10-15 people to work on something that passed 2 years ago, it wouldnt bring any money and it would slow future content.
You cant just get in a game after few years and DEMAND you get what you missed.
Because it’s content that didn’t have to be removed in the first in a game with the fractal system that lets us relive events in the past, content is what this game badly needs and this already finished content hasn’t been played by a lot of the current player base?
Rehabilitated Elementalist. Now, trolling the Thief forums with my math.
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)
There’s also the Xunlai Ingot
From the same article:
“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”
Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.
They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.
When someone says “We are raising crafts to 500 but as we iterate they are subject to change” the reasonable assumption is that said systems already exist and are being modified and iterated upon, not that they are completely gutted (if there was anything to gut in the first place) and removed from the game.
Since we are comparing stuff.
Customer commissioned me to make a four legged table and I deliver them table with only two legs and I also brought bunch of books to be put in place of missing legs. Naturally customer is kittened. But then another guy who also bought it starts defending me and my two legged table telling my latest customer how he/she should be grateful for having any legs at all and that books are perfectly good substitute.
This is what’s happening right now.Interpreting such vague statements in a way you’re doing is a basically a blank check for never finishing anything and freedom from responsibility for not delivering listed stuff. The future posts like “Looking ahead” should, by that logic, probably contain only one sentence:
“Do not expect anything.”Sorry but saying that I’m going to deliver something that later changes to the game make not useful isn’t the same thing as what you’re saying.
They simply didn’t see how adding jewelry would improve the game in my opinion. I don’t think it would improve my game.
The ascended armor and weapons were mat sinks. There’s just no reason to believe most people would be interested in upping their jewelry crafting.
In Anet’s blog post about iteration they did say they sometimes scrap entire systems if they don’t end up being what they want to be.
And it’s not like tons of people love ascended crafting anyway.
They didn’t add the entire system and then remove it.
What value you place on the ascended crafting has nothing to do with this discussion.
They said they were going to do something and they didn’t do it. There is a special phrase to communicate that. It’s called breaking a promise.
Taking another sentence out of context in the same article doesn’t absolve them of the responsibility they put on themselves by their own words.
Here is what balanced expectations look like.
“We are looking into expanding all the crafting professions to 500, but a final decision has not been made yet. We may choose to drop some professions based on testing and user feedback.”
That is not this:
“We are going to expand all crafting professions to 500!”
That is always:
“We are going to expand all crafting professions to 500!”
It doesn’t matter if they said in another section that things are subject to change via testing. If that was contextually relevant to the above statement, then they should not have said…
“We are going to expand all crafting professions to 500!”
Rehabilitated Elementalist. Now, trolling the Thief forums with my math.
You make me wish I could craft a Legendary donut.
This was the best post on here.
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)
There’s also the Xunlai Ingot
From the same article:
“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”
Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.
They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.
You’re making a completely different argument than that quote was meant to express. Context matters. If you read it, Behellagh said that the players made the presumption that the two crafts would be expanded to 500. The quote shows that it was not an assumption made by the players, but it was based on actual information given by ANET.
Also, anyone who is using the “And you wonder why ANET doesn’t communicate with players” argument: Yeah, it’s super unreasonable to expect that people mean what they say. Why is it that in this format, it’s suddenly inappropriate to use official communication as a fact of intention? This is on the same level as politicians who make stupid statements and then say, “That was not intended to be a factual statement.”
You say things like that, and then you turn around and act like anyone who questions the various development plans that are currently “on the table” are people who just want to complain about everything and if ANET says they’re doing something, then they’re doing it and that’s that.
How do you even live with that kind of cognitive dissonance going on? It boggles the mind.
I live with it quite easily because I know the company is doing stuff that I like. I was told straight out we wouldn’t have gliding in core Tyria, but we do.
I find that adds to my game a lot more than more raids being out, or even more legendary weapons. It’s something I use frequently.
That’s how I live with it. I don’t get everything I want, and sometimes I don’t even get everything mentioned, but I get other stuff I didn’t expect to get.
Thing is, while I personally agree with you that gliding in Central Tyria is a far more fun and useful addition than more Legendaries I won’t make, I have to recognise that; a) that is a totally subjective opinion, on my behalf and b) they did, specifically, promise people the legendaries, in their marketing materials.
So, while we may be happy, in this instance, that doesn’t make it an OK thing for companies to do, in general.
…and in fact, if other types of companies did something like it, they would be in big trouble.
For example, if you bought a vacuum cleaner and they (intentionally) delivered a lawn mower, while you might be happy, as you happened to need a lawn mower even more than you did a vacuum cleaner (and felt it was worth more), that wouldn’t make it OK, if other people who bought the vacuum cleaner didn’t happen to agree with you.
…and OK, you could say that they are only changing a part of the vacuum cleaner, but even that isn’t really OK.
For example, if you ordered a vacuum cleaner that used bags and they sent you a bagless one instead, you would be under no obligation to accept that change, even if they (and some other people) viewed it as an improvement.
You are supposed to get exactly what you ordered; not a different thing, even if it could be viewed as better.
That’s kind of how trade works.
“Turns out when people play the game, they don’t admire your feet at all.” sephiroth
(edited by Tigaseye.2047)
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)
There’s also the Xunlai Ingot
From the same article:
“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”
Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.
They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.
You’re making a completely different argument than that quote was meant to express. Context matters. If you read it, Behellagh said that the players made the presumption that the two crafts would be expanded to 500. The quote shows that it was not an assumption made by the players, but it was based on actual information given by ANET.
Also, anyone who is using the “And you wonder why ANET doesn’t communicate with players” argument: Yeah, it’s super unreasonable to expect that people mean what they say. Why is it that in this format, it’s suddenly inappropriate to use official communication as a fact of intention? This is on the same level as politicians who make stupid statements and then say, “That was not intended to be a factual statement.”
You say things like that, and then you turn around and act like anyone who questions the various development plans that are currently “on the table” are people who just want to complain about everything and if ANET says they’re doing something, then they’re doing it and that’s that.
How do you even live with that kind of cognitive dissonance going on? It boggles the mind.
I live with it quite easily because I know the company is doing stuff that I like. I was told straight out we wouldn’t have gliding in core Tyria, but we do.
I find that adds to my game a lot more than more raids being out, or even more legendary weapons. It’s something I use frequently.
That’s how I live with it. I don’t get everything I want, and sometimes I don’t even get everything mentioned, but I get other stuff I didn’t expect to get.
Thing is, while I personally agree with you that gliding in Central Tyria is a far more fun and useful addition than more Legendaries I won’t make, I have to recognise that; a) that is a totally subjective opinion, on my behalf and b) they did, specifically, promise people the legendaries, in their marketing materials.
So, while we may be happy, in this instance, that doesn’t make it an OK thing for companies to do, in general.
…and in fact, if other types of companies did something like it, they would be in big trouble.
For example, if you bought a vacuum cleaner and they (intentionally) delivered a lawn mower, while you might be happy, as you happened to need a lawn mower even more than you did a vacuum cleaner (and felt it was worth more), that wouldn’t make it OK, if other people who bought the vacuum cleaner didn’t happen to agree with you.
…and OK, you could say that they are only changing a part of the vacuum cleaner, but even that isn’t really OK.
For example, if you ordered a vacuum cleaner that used bags and they sent you a bagless one instead, you would be under no obligation to accept that change, even if they (and some other people) viewed it as an improvement.
You are supposed to get exactly what you ordered; not a different thing, even if it could be viewed as better.
That’s kind of how trade works.
These analogies, everyone single one of them is pointless for a lot of reasons. Guild Wars 2 isn’t a vacuum cleaner. A court would have to determine if it’s a product or a service and both products and services come under different laws.
The whole false advertising commentary, at least in the states, presupposes intention to deceive by the company who creates the advertisement. That has to be proven in court and so far, no one can prove that intention to deceive exists. Laws exist to protect consumers, but laws also exist to protect companies.
If Anet had every intention of doing something and they say they’re going to do it and they don’t, then we have to actually prove they knew before they said they were going to do it that they couldn’t do it at that time. If no one has proven that, then it’s not false advertising. Nor is it a vacuum.
What you’re paying for when you purchase an MMO is access to an account and a world. That’s what you pay for. The specific nature of what you get in that work is determined by a lot of different factors, including fan pressure.
Simple example, HOT was advertised with a new WvW zone. That zone WAS delivered and many people, I’m sure most people, didn’t like the zone. So if Anet brings back the old zone due to player pressure, and that zone isn’t here anymore, they’re not actually false advertising, or breaking a promise. They made the zone and players asked for the old zone back.
In effect, the new “promised” zone won’t be here, but it’s still not false advertising.
All this comparing HoT to a vacuum cleaner is pointless. One thing is a service and one thing is a product. They follow different laws.
What you’re really paying for is a game key.
A better analogy would be buying a season ticket to a theme park based on the idea that one ride would be available and then finding out they weren’t going to finish it due to reasons.
In the mean time though, you’ve gone to the park and ridden other rides and seen other shows. That’s the best analogy for an MMO, particularly a theme park MMO.
You may not like this, but this is by far the best anology. A theme park isn’t a vacuum cleaner and sometimes planned things don’t happen. You could try to sue the theme park, and you could even ask for a refund. The problem is you’ve already used part of the product.
If you can PROVE that you bought this only because of one feature, and you never entered the park and did other stuff, or you can prove the theme park never had any intention of adding the attraction, you’d be right.
In this case those, with Anet furnishing 25% of the content listed, you’d have a very hard time proving in court that they didn’t intend to go further.
All they’d have to say is we did start providing this content and it proved unpopular with the percentage of the playerbase, so to give people more content they did want, we changed tracks.
And that would be enough to quash anything you could prove in court.
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)
There’s also the Xunlai Ingot
From the same article:
“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”
Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.
They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.
You’re making a completely different argument than that quote was meant to express. Context matters. If you read it, Behellagh said that the players made the presumption that the two crafts would be expanded to 500. The quote shows that it was not an assumption made by the players, but it was based on actual information given by ANET.
Also, anyone who is using the “And you wonder why ANET doesn’t communicate with players” argument: Yeah, it’s super unreasonable to expect that people mean what they say. Why is it that in this format, it’s suddenly inappropriate to use official communication as a fact of intention? This is on the same level as politicians who make stupid statements and then say, “That was not intended to be a factual statement.”
You say things like that, and then you turn around and act like anyone who questions the various development plans that are currently “on the table” are people who just want to complain about everything and if ANET says they’re doing something, then they’re doing it and that’s that.
How do you even live with that kind of cognitive dissonance going on? It boggles the mind.
I live with it quite easily because I know the company is doing stuff that I like. I was told straight out we wouldn’t have gliding in core Tyria, but we do.
I find that adds to my game a lot more than more raids being out, or even more legendary weapons. It’s something I use frequently.
That’s how I live with it. I don’t get everything I want, and sometimes I don’t even get everything mentioned, but I get other stuff I didn’t expect to get.
Thing is, while I personally agree with you that gliding in Central Tyria is a far more fun and useful addition than more Legendaries I won’t make, I have to recognise that; a) that is a totally subjective opinion, on my behalf and b) they did, specifically, promise people the legendaries, in their marketing materials.
So, while we may be happy, in this instance, that doesn’t make it an OK thing for companies to do, in general.
…and in fact, if other types of companies did something like it, they would be in big trouble.
For example, if you bought a vacuum cleaner and they (intentionally) delivered a lawn mower, while you might be happy, as you happened to need a lawn mower even more than you did a vacuum cleaner (and felt it was worth more), that wouldn’t make it OK, if other people who bought the vacuum cleaner didn’t happen to agree with you.
…and OK, you could say that they are only changing a part of the vacuum cleaner, but even that isn’t really OK.
For example, if you ordered a vacuum cleaner that used bags and they sent you a bagless one instead, you would be under no obligation to accept that change, even if they (and some other people) viewed it as an improvement.
You are supposed to get exactly what you ordered; not a different thing, even if it could be viewed as better.
That’s kind of how trade works.
These analogies, everyone single one of them is pointless for a lot of reasons. Guild Wars 2 isn’t a vacuum cleaner. A court would have to determine if it’s a product or a service and both products and services come under different laws.
The whole false advertising commentary, at least in the states, presupposes intention to deceive by the company who creates the advertisement. That has to be proven in court and so far, no one can prove that intention to deceive exists. Laws exist to protect consumers, but laws also exist to protect companies.
If Anet had every intention of doing something and they say they’re going to do it and they don’t, then we have to actually prove they knew before they said they were going to do it that they couldn’t do it at that time. If no one has proven that, then it’s not false advertising. Nor is it a vacuum.
What you’re paying for when you purchase an MMO is access to an account and a world. That’s what you pay for. The specific nature of what you get in that work is determined by a lot of different factors, including fan pressure.
Simple example, HOT was advertised with a new WvW zone. That zone WAS delivered and many people, I’m sure most people, didn’t like the zone. So if Anet brings back the old zone due to player pressure, and that zone isn’t here anymore, they’re not actually false advertising, or breaking a promise. They made the zone and players asked for the old zone back.
In effect, the new “promised” zone won’t be here, but it’s still not false advertising.
All this comparing HoT to a vacuum cleaner is pointless. One thing is a service and one thing is a product. They follow different laws.
What you’re really paying for is a game key.
A better analogy would be buying a season ticket to a theme park based on the idea that one ride would be available and then finding out they weren’t going to finish it due to reasons.
In the mean time though, you’ve gone to the park and ridden other rides and seen other shows. That’s the best analogy for an MMO, particularly a theme park MMO.
You may not like this, but this is by far the best anology. A theme park isn’t a vacuum cleaner and sometimes planned things don’t happen. You could try to sue the theme park, and you could even ask for a refund. The problem is you’ve already used part of the product.
If you can PROVE that you bought this only because of one feature, and you never entered the park and did other stuff, or you can prove the theme park never had any intention of adding the attraction, you’d be right.
In this case those, with Anet furnishing 25% of the content listed, you’d have a very hard time proving in court that they didn’t intend to go further.
All they’d have to say is we did start providing this content and it proved unpopular with the percentage of the playerbase, so to give people more content they did want, we changed tracks.
And that would be enough to quash anything you could prove in court.
Well, while that may, or may not, be true legally speaking*, that is almost certainly not how most customers will view the situation.
…and how people view the situation is almost as important as whether they do, or do not, currently have a legal claim to compensation.
The more people lose faith and trust in the games industry, the fewer customers it will retain.
That is the point I was trying to make.
Not whether someone (in some undisclosed location) could, or could not, successfully sue Anet over this, at the current time, or not.
But sure, let’s go with the theme park analogy.
Let’s say someone bought a season ticket, for a theme park, on the advertised promise of a new ride, which was due to be opened at some point during the season.
Then, when they had got the ticket and had visited the park a few times, on the offchance the ride had opened (because, for some reason, the park simply refused to provide a specific opening date, or time) and had, perhaps, had to hang around the park waiting, they had then finally found out there was, in fact, going to be no new ride.
Or, not the specific ride advertised, anyway.
It wouldn’t really matter if they had tried to fill their time while waiting and/or had tried to console themselves, after they had found out there would be no new ride after all, by using some of the other attractions, would it?
Almost anyone would, after all – I certainly think it’s fair to say the “reasonable man” would.
They would still have been severely misled by an advertising flyer and would have made that purchase, mainly for a specific thing, which then wasn’t delivered.
Therefore, I think they would almost certainly be entitled to a refund (in the UK, at least).
I don’t really think the intention to add the ride, or not, would matter either.
If you promise a specific thing, to customers (or potential customers), you are supposed to deliver it; not just intend to deliver it and then change your mind (even if it’s for good reason).
…and this applies to services, too.
I provide services, with my business and I can’t just decide that I won’t provide the ordered service, for whatever reason, or that I will give the client some other service, instead.
If I can’t, or don’t want to, provide the specific service, I have to refund them.
…and OK, they are paying for a specific service, as opposed to a “theme park” of services, with me, but still.
Yes, things can change in games and adjustments may need to be made, but if that is the type of industry you find yourself in, you should either try to promise less (or sound far less definite, in your advertising), or be prepared to refund disappointed customers, from time to time.
Not that I’m saying, for one moment, I think everyone should ask for a refund, if they have used and enjoyed other aspects of the xpac.
I hope most people will be fair about the situation.
My point is, that I think they (reasonably) could, in the UK at least, if they wanted to and that is not a situation a company should put itself in.
*As you say, a lot of that probably depends on the customer’s location.
For example, I live in the UK and the British government were talking about making video games viewed (legally) like any other product and subject to the same consumer laws.
Not sure if that has been implemented yet(?), these things often take a while and I haven’t been following it avidly enough, but still.
“Turns out when people play the game, they don’t admire your feet at all.” sephiroth
(edited by Tigaseye.2047)
1) There was simply no reason for Level 500 Food and Jewelry. It was the presumption of the players that these crafts would go to 500.
“We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!” (2013)
There’s also the Xunlai Ingot
From the same article:
“As always, the content above is subject to change as we test and iterate on these systems.”
Changing your mind on doing something isn’t quite the same as not finishing it. For example we were going to put a shed in our back yard, but we decided on a gazebo instead.
They probably did some tests, and figured the time, energy and expense to level it wouldn’t be worth it, so they changed their minds about doing it.
You’re making a completely different argument than that quote was meant to express. Context matters. If you read it, Behellagh said that the players made the presumption that the two crafts would be expanded to 500. The quote shows that it was not an assumption made by the players, but it was based on actual information given by ANET.
Also, anyone who is using the “And you wonder why ANET doesn’t communicate with players” argument: Yeah, it’s super unreasonable to expect that people mean what they say. Why is it that in this format, it’s suddenly inappropriate to use official communication as a fact of intention? This is on the same level as politicians who make stupid statements and then say, “That was not intended to be a factual statement.”
You say things like that, and then you turn around and act like anyone who questions the various development plans that are currently “on the table” are people who just want to complain about everything and if ANET says they’re doing something, then they’re doing it and that’s that.
How do you even live with that kind of cognitive dissonance going on? It boggles the mind.
I live with it quite easily because I know the company is doing stuff that I like. I was told straight out we wouldn’t have gliding in core Tyria, but we do.
I find that adds to my game a lot more than more raids being out, or even more legendary weapons. It’s something I use frequently.
That’s how I live with it. I don’t get everything I want, and sometimes I don’t even get everything mentioned, but I get other stuff I didn’t expect to get.
Thing is, while I personally agree with you that gliding in Central Tyria is a far more fun and useful addition than more Legendaries I won’t make, I have to recognise that; a) that is a totally subjective opinion, on my behalf and b) they did, specifically, promise people the legendaries, in their marketing materials.
So, while we may be happy, in this instance, that doesn’t make it an OK thing for companies to do, in general.
…and in fact, if other types of companies did something like it, they would be in big trouble.
For example, if you bought a vacuum cleaner and they (intentionally) delivered a lawn mower, while you might be happy, as you happened to need a lawn mower even more than you did a vacuum cleaner (and felt it was worth more), that wouldn’t make it OK, if other people who bought the vacuum cleaner didn’t happen to agree with you.
…and OK, you could say that they are only changing a part of the vacuum cleaner, but even that isn’t really OK.
For example, if you ordered a vacuum cleaner that used bags and they sent you a bagless one instead, you would be under no obligation to accept that change, even if they (and some other people) viewed it as an improvement.
You are supposed to get exactly what you ordered; not a different thing, even if it could be viewed as better.
That’s kind of how trade works.
These analogies, everyone single one of them is pointless for a lot of reasons. Guild Wars 2 isn’t a vacuum cleaner. A court would have to determine if it’s a product or a service and both products and services come under different laws.
The whole false advertising commentary, at least in the states, presupposes intention to deceive by the company who creates the advertisement. That has to be proven in court and so far, no one can prove that intention to deceive exists. Laws exist to protect consumers, but laws also exist to protect companies.
If Anet had every intention of doing something and they say they’re going to do it and they don’t, then we have to actually prove they knew before they said they were going to do it that they couldn’t do it at that time. If no one has proven that, then it’s not false advertising. Nor is it a vacuum.
What you’re paying for when you purchase an MMO is access to an account and a world. That’s what you pay for. The specific nature of what you get in that work is determined by a lot of different factors, including fan pressure.
Simple example, HOT was advertised with a new WvW zone. That zone WAS delivered and many people, I’m sure most people, didn’t like the zone. So if Anet brings back the old zone due to player pressure, and that zone isn’t here anymore, they’re not actually false advertising, or breaking a promise. They made the zone and players asked for the old zone back.
In effect, the new “promised” zone won’t be here, but it’s still not false advertising.
All this comparing HoT to a vacuum cleaner is pointless. One thing is a service and one thing is a product. They follow different laws.
What you’re really paying for is a game key.
A better analogy would be buying a season ticket to a theme park based on the idea that one ride would be available and then finding out they weren’t going to finish it due to reasons.
In the mean time though, you’ve gone to the park and ridden other rides and seen other shows. That’s the best analogy for an MMO, particularly a theme park MMO.
You may not like this, but this is by far the best anology. A theme park isn’t a vacuum cleaner and sometimes planned things don’t happen. You could try to sue the theme park, and you could even ask for a refund. The problem is you’ve already used part of the product.
If you can PROVE that you bought this only because of one feature, and you never entered the park and did other stuff, or you can prove the theme park never had any intention of adding the attraction, you’d be right.
In this case those, with Anet furnishing 25% of the content listed, you’d have a very hard time proving in court that they didn’t intend to go further.
All they’d have to say is we did start providing this content and it proved unpopular with the percentage of the playerbase, so to give people more content they did want, we changed tracks.
And that would be enough to quash anything you could prove in court.
Well, while that may, or may not, be true legally speaking*, that is almost certainly not how most customers will view the situation.
…and how people view the situation is almost as important as whether they do, or do not, currently have a legal claim to compensation.
The more people lose faith and trust in the games industry, the fewer customers it will retain.
That is the point I was trying to make.
Not whether someone (in some undisclosed location) could, or could not, successfully sue Anet over this, at the current time, or not.
But sure, let’s go with the theme park analogy.
Let’s say someone bought a season ticket, for a theme park, on the advertised promise of a new ride, which was due to be opened at some point during the season.
Then, when they had got the ticket and had visited the park a few times, on the offchance the ride had opened (because, for some reason, the park simply refused to provide a specific opening date, or time) and had, perhaps, had to hang around the park waiting, they had then finally found out there was, in fact, going to be no new ride.
Or, not the specific ride advertised, anyway.
It wouldn’t really matter if they had tried to fill their time while waiting and/or had tried to console themselves, after they had found out there would be no new ride after all, by using some of the other attractions, would it?
Almost anyone would, after all – I certainly think it’s fair to say the “reasonable man” would.
They would still have been severely misled by an advertising flyer and would have made that purchase, mainly for a specific thing, which then wasn’t delivered.
Therefore, I think they would almost certainly be entitled to a refund (in the UK, at least).
I don’t really think the intention to add the ride, or not, would matter either.
If you promise a specific thing, to customers (or potential customers), you are supposed to deliver it; not just intend to deliver it and then change your mind (even if it’s for good reason).
…and this applies to services, too.
I provide services, with my business and I can’t just decide that I won’t provide the ordered service, for whatever reason, or that I will give the client some other service, instead.
If I can’t, or don’t want to, provide the specific service, I have to refund them.
…and OK, they are paying for a specific service, as opposed to a “theme park” of services, with me, but still.
Yes, things can change in games and adjustments may need to be made, but if that is the type of industry you find yourself in, you should either try to promise less (or sound far less definite, in your advertising), or be prepared to refund disappointed customers, from time to time.
Not that I’m saying, for one moment, I think everyone should ask for a refund, if they have used and enjoyed other aspects of the xpac.
I hope most people will be fair about the situation.
My point is, that I think they (reasonably) could, in the UK at least, if they wanted to and that is not a situation a company should put itself in.
*As you say, a lot of that probably depends on the customer’s location.
For example, I live in the UK and the British government were talking about making video games viewed (legally) like any other product and subject to the same consumer laws.
Not sure if that has been implemented yet(?), these things often take a while and I haven’t been following it avidly enough, but still.
I’m not convinced that taking away legendaries will affect most players and I don’t really believe most players are making a list and checking it twice. I don’t think most players are so vested in that feature that it’s going to tear down people’s confidence.
I do believe people who were already doubting will take this much harder than people who just log in and play the game without doing a lot of research, without following every feature.
There are people in my guild who don’t even know legendaries were cancelled yet. Most players aren’t following the game closely in any kind of detail…in my opinion anyway.
This isn’t like the amusement park guaranteed space mountain and then didn’t build it. To some legendaries are a major major feature and to some it’s a non-feature, that was 25% delivered anyway.
My wife made the staff. She’s not looking forward to making another of the new legendaries anyway, because they’re so costly. So she’s not particularly sad that they’re not bringing out more legendaries.
The question is how big a feature was this, for how many people. I think there’s a very loud minority screaming about this, but I don’t think this is a major percentage of the playerbase.
Will some people see that badly? Sure they will.
And many won’t as well. But I think a whole lot of people see the content drought badly, in comparison anyway. That has to be the main priority.
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