Guild Wars 2

So instead of posting in the thread about this exact topic in the dungeon forum section you had to come here to talk about it?

Things like that make the endless whining of dungeon farmers a lot harder to take seriously.

Sizer.3987:

So instead of posting in the thread about this exact topic in the dungeon forum section you had to come here to talk about it?

Things like that make the endless whining of dungeon farmers a lot harder to take seriously.

Using the example of dungeons to illustrate a point does not make the thread about dungeons. Perhaps you should invest in some reading lessons if you are not able to understand the OP.

It is not a disaster just because you are too cheap to afford an expansion. The fact of the matter is, Arena net seems genereous when you compared to other companies.

Also, if you are not going to buy the expansion why bother run dungeons? Those things are never going to be improved and it makes everything pointless.

PlatinumMember.5274:

It is not a disaster just because you are too cheap to afford an expansion. The fact of the matter is, Arena net seems genereous when you compared to other companies.

Also, if you are not going to buy the expansion why bother run dungeons? Those things are never going to be improved and it makes everything pointless.

hes talking about fractals, not dungeons. Do you even read bro?

phys.7689:

PlatinumMember.5274:

It is not a disaster just because you are too cheap to afford an expansion. The fact of the matter is, Arena net seems genereous when you compared to other companies.

Also, if you are not going to buy the expansion why bother run dungeons? Those things are never going to be improved and it makes everything pointless.

hes talking about fractals, not dungeons. Do you even read bro?

He/she, like far too many of the Guild Wars 2 fanbase, is in too big a hurry to victim-blame to bother reading – let alone actually consider – any criticism or concern being addressed by those who haven’t waterlogged themselves with Kool-Aid.

vespers.1759:

Sizer.3987:

So instead of posting in the thread about this exact topic in the dungeon forum section you had to come here to talk about it?

Things like that make the endless whining of dungeon farmers a lot harder to take seriously.

Using the example of dungeons to illustrate a point does not make the thread about dungeons. Perhaps you should invest in some reading lessons if you are not able to understand the OP.

Then what is this thread about? Fractals are HOT content. So you need to buy HOT to get access to the full experience. The main non-HOT content that was heavily nerfed was dungeons.

So either he is complaining about dungeons, which there are other threads about, or he is complaining about fractals, which makes zero sense, as you SHOULD need to buy the expansion to get access to content related to it.

Maybe you get some of these reading lessons you mentioned.

Sizer.3987:

Fractals are HOT content.

I find them to be lukewarm at best. And they were there long before Heart of Thorns.

Sizer.3987:

vespers.1759:

Sizer.3987:

So instead of posting in the thread about this exact topic in the dungeon forum section you had to come here to talk about it?

Things like that make the endless whining of dungeon farmers a lot harder to take seriously.

Using the example of dungeons to illustrate a point does not make the thread about dungeons. Perhaps you should invest in some reading lessons if you are not able to understand the OP.

Then what is this thread about? Fractals are HOT content. So you need to buy HOT to get access to the full experience. The only non-HOT content that was heavily nerfed was dungeons.

So either he is complaining about dungeons, which there are other threads about, or he is complaining about fractals, which makes zero sense, as you SHOULD need to buy the expansion to get access to content related to it.

Maybe you get some of these reading lessons you mentioned.

I can’t tell if you seriously just don’t understand or you’re purposefully being dense, so i’ll lay it out very clearly for you.

Fractals are not really HoT content until you get past 50. If they want to lock people out of fractals past 50 they can certainly do so and I wouldn’t mind.

HOWEVER fractals to 50 have been around for years, (expansion literally only added levels not actual fractals) and now suddenly the first 50 have their rewards slashed unless you buy the expansion. Since fractals came with the base game (inb4 some kitten mentions they came out after) one can clearly see that this results in a net loss for those that didn’t buy IE: a punishment for not upgrading.

Not too hard to understand.

So to clarify, existing fractal rewards are now locked behind masteries? That doesn’t sound very cool.

Sizer.3987:

vespers.1759:

Sizer.3987:

So instead of posting in the thread about this exact topic in the dungeon forum section you had to come here to talk about it?

Things like that make the endless whining of dungeon farmers a lot harder to take seriously.

Using the example of dungeons to illustrate a point does not make the thread about dungeons. Perhaps you should invest in some reading lessons if you are not able to understand the OP.

Then what is this thread about? Fractals are HOT content. So you need to buy HOT to get access to the full experience. The main non-HOT content that was heavily nerfed was dungeons.

So either he is complaining about dungeons, which there are other threads about, or he is complaining about fractals, which makes zero sense, as you SHOULD need to buy the expansion to get access to content related to it.

Maybe you get some of these reading lessons you mentioned.

hes talking about fractals, which they added nothing to, besides loot nerfs, and possibly the ability to un-nerf your loot.

His point is that taking away from the core fractal experience and putting it behind Hot only is dirty.

ArchonWing.9480:

So to clarify, existing fractal rewards are now locked behind masteries? That doesn’t sound very cool.

Is that what the fractal mastery line is? If so, I agree. Very cheap move.

How has this not been obvious already?

Anet doesn’t generate revenue with subs. It has to have other means of income.

This is where it comes in… it makes logical sense to entise players to BUY the xpac….

At the end of the day, Anet is a business, and they need income to operate it.

They will do whats best for them, its a business decision.

They don’t give a crap that core game players are HILARIOUSLY left behind in terms of making progress in GW2….

All the good money making strategies are now tied behind HoT…(raids and fractals, SW will be chump change compared to the new HoT Map rewards)

Want a more diverse and potentially BETTER spec to PvP/WvW with? pay up and buy HoT for elite specs… otherwise, you will get roflstomped in PvP/WvW by better specs.

its a cheap move, no doubt, but at the end of the day, anet is a business. They value THE PAYING CUSTOMER. NOT THE FREE.

SkiTz.4590:

How has this not been obvious already?

Anet doesn’t generate revenue with subs. It has to have other means of income.

This is where it comes in… it makes logical sense to entise players to BUY the xpac….

At the end of the day, Anet is a business, and they need income to operate it.

They will do whats best for them, its a business decision.

They don’t give a crap that core game players are HILARIOUSLY left behind in terms of making progress in GW2….

All the good money making strategies are now tied behind HoT…(raids and fractals, SW will be chump change compared to the new HoT Map rewards)

Want a more diverse and potentially BETTER spec to PvP/WvW with? pay up and buy HoT for elite specs… otherwise, you will get roflstomped in PvP/WvW by better specs.

its a cheap move, no doubt, but at the end of the day, anet is a business. They value THE PAYING CUSTOMER. NOT THE FREE.

Call me crazy, but I’ve always felt more inclined to purchase a product when I’m enticed to do so by a carrot rather than a stick.

PlatinumMember.5274:

The fact of the matter is, Arena net seems genereous when you compared to other companies.

Got an example?

It has other means of income. That was the entire point of the gem store, and now having a paid expansion.

I knew F2P would bite us in the kitten , just for the wrong reasons. sigh

Nerfing old content to discourage people playing it and make the new content more viable isn’t good game design and is shady business practice.

This is the first MMO I have played in 15 years that has pulled this stunt and no one should be happy about it. The excuse that GW2 needs to nerf old content because it’s free 2 play holds no water when there are plenty of free 2 play MMO’s that haven’t nerfed old content when they bring out a expansion.

The nerfing of old content just as the expansion hits is so blatant as to be insulting to the inteligence of all Guild Wars 2 players. How anyone can defend that practice I don’t know.

Its completely dishonest to say they rebalanced this content because its rewarding too much 2 years into release when they just happen to release a expansion to fill that void. They should be HONEST about it. Players want honesty from a MMO developer without game content being nerfed to try make new content look more shiny ir rewarding.

Do we really want Guild Wars 2 to have a cycle of old content being nerfed to the point no one plays it every time Anet brings a expansion out? Does anyone really think that will help Guild Wars 2 retain players?

What happens when the next big expansion hits? Will they Nerf Heart Of Thorns content to get people to buy the next one?

MMO gamers are not stupid and do move onto other games as soon as they get treated like they are. Why do you think there are so many failed MMO’s out there?

Guild Wars 2 and it’s content developers are awesome and deserve massive amounts of respect BUT whoever thought it was a good idea to go back a nerf/lock old content has made a mistake. It’s hard to retain players in MMO’s these days and decisions like that cause player retention to drop.

Umm, f2p mmo’s don’t have expansions.

And I have plenty of money I just don’t use credit cards or fake store bought credit cards.

Drow.2081:

Umm, f2p mmo’s don’t have expansions.

And I have plenty of money I just don’t use credit cards or fake store bought credit cards.

Really? Last time I checked f2p MMO’s got 3 times the expansions that GW2 has.

Drow.2081:

Umm, f2p mmo’s don’t have expansions.

And I have plenty of money I just don’t use credit cards or fake store bought credit cards.

what? LOTRO has had expansions.

SWTOR , Rift, ESO, etc etc

plenty of f2p MMORPGs release xpacs dude……

[quote=5643010;Liisjak.4509:]

Drow.2081:

Umm, f2p mmo’s don’t have expansions.

And I have plenty of money I just don’t use credit cards or fake store bought credit cards.

Just to jump on the band wagon, DDO has them and all the others have them that the other guys above just mentioned.

So SomeThingForU until you know WeTalkFast you are talking about.

Even Bloodborne expansion looks more appealing than HoT, no joke, and it’s an A-RPG.

Yeah, this and the fact that that there is no gear grind but the new ascended items are better – ANet at least got some humor.

Because this is all just a big joke.

I find this a cowardly cash grab ploy if true… and if so, Shame on you Anet… if it isnt then nothing to be said.

Victuswolf.5286:

Nerfing old content to discourage people playing it and make the new content more viable isn’t good game design and is shady business practice.

This is the first MMO I have played in 15 years that has pulled this stunt and no one should be happy about it. The excuse that GW2 needs to nerf old content because it’s free 2 play holds no water when there are plenty of free 2 play MMO’s that haven’t nerfed old content when they bring out a expansion.

The nerfing of old content just as the expansion hits is so blatant as to be insulting to the inteligence of all Guild Wars 2 players. How anyone can defend that practice I don’t know.

Its completely dishonest to say they rebalanced this content because its rewarding too much 2 years into release when they just happen to release a expansion to fill that void. They should be HONEST about it. Players want honesty from a MMO developer without game content being nerfed to try make new content look more shiny ir rewarding.

Do we really want Guild Wars 2 to have a cycle of old content being nerfed to the point no one plays it every time Anet brings a expansion out? Does anyone really think that will help Guild Wars 2 retain players?

What happens when the next big expansion hits? Will they Nerf Heart Of Thorns content to get people to buy the next one?

MMO gamers are not stupid and do move onto other games as soon as they get treated like they are. Why do you think there are so many failed MMO’s out there?

Guild Wars 2 and it’s content developers are awesome and deserve massive amounts of respect BUT whoever thought it was a good idea to go back a nerf/lock old content has made a mistake. It’s hard to retain players in MMO’s these days and decisions like that cause player retention to drop.

I agree with you 100% and can only understand some one not agreeing with you because they are being paid. Its completely bad form. I had come back to the game after not playing for almost 2 years because of anets shady crap. I had finally accepted that its a subscription game. Put in $20/month and it puts the grind at the same level as other MMOs. I guess its my fault though. Ya know that whole full me once, fool me twice. I should have known better. Hopefully some of those 3rd party sites will speak out about this nonsense and get things fixed again.

The nerffed the loot because you only have to do 1 instead of 3 and a boss. Honestly why is everyone so bend on getting gold in this game, you can still enjoy the fractals and much of the game without much gold.

Back in 2005, Arena was the best Game Studio, with the best game manifesto and economic model ever seen, but right now, they are one the worst…
I bought every Arenanet products in Collector Edition until HoT, and I’m so glad I didn’t buy this expac, I really don’t want to give my money to people who shifted their minds like that.

Pink Ninja Man.4375:

The nerffed the loot because you only have to do 1 instead of 3 and a boss. Honestly why is everyone so bend on getting gold in this game, you can still enjoy the fractals and much of the game without much gold.

No , the problem is the REAL fractal loot is LOCKED behind the Fractal Mastery (which requires HoT)…..

this is a the scenario – “haha I have HoT, I have access to the best fractal rewards , take that core game f2per scrub”…..

Ppl aren’t bent on getting gold, its the fact they TOOK AWAY from the core game….and LOCKED it behind HoT…..

also, you do realize gold is pretty much the only way to get anythign in this game right???? Outside of accountboud/soulbound drops, gold is the ideal way to get something like a new gemstore skin…..

Also, on a side note, how pathetic is it that anet couldn’t even AT LEAST add NEW fractal instances….. I mean my godness, years of the same crap. You think players should be happy with all this and just say “eh its ok anet, you guys are awesome, we don’t care how you treat us!!”

Yup. Usually I am in WvW, and didn’t buy HoT. Hate the new map. So pretty, but so messed up. Like EoTM on steroids.

I am sitting here wondering if, like WoW and Rift before, I have had enough of the game. I usually quit cold turkey, so this might be the time. It’s been fun, usually.

vespers.1759:

It doesn’t take more than kindergarten logic to understand that a good expansion should leave the base game alone and instead offer new things to encourage players to buy.

Anet has apparently completely failed to understand this, as they have gone the route of kittening over players in a sad attempt to force them to buy.

Because Anet is a company that needs money in order to provide their employees with salaries. It is kindergarten logic that you are a consumer and consumers spend money to enjoy products/services.

Welcome to the world, if you are 16, go get a job. If you are younger than 16 and perfer to live under a rock, go play some other game. Complaining about having to spend money as a consumer is below kindergarten logic.

This expansion will provide entertainment for the next two years for $50. That is a laughable amount of bang for buck.

kittenatiel.2874:

This expansion will provide entertainment for the next two years for $50. That is a laughable amount of bang for buck.

I think he is talking about things that were part of the original game that are now locked behind a HoT purchase. It would be like, you cannot go into Orr unless you get HoT, even if you were able to before.

SkiTz.4590:

Anet doesn’t generate revenue with subs. It has to have other means of income.

This is where it comes in… it makes logical sense to entise players to BUY the xpac….

At the end of the day, Anet is a business, and they need income to operate it.

They will do whats best for them, its a business decision.

They don’t give a crap that core game players are HILARIOUSLY left behind in terms of making progress in GW2….

All the good money making strategies are now tied behind HoT…(raids and fractals, SW will be chump change compared to the new HoT Map rewards)

Want a more diverse and potentially BETTER spec to PvP/WvW with? pay up and buy HoT for elite specs… otherwise, you will get roflstomped in PvP/WvW by better specs.

its a cheap move, no doubt, but at the end of the day, anet is a business. They value THE PAYING CUSTOMER. NOT THE FREE.

I believe you are forgetting something:

• what about those that bought the base game (before HoT was on sale and/or before the ftp move)? They are paying customers, yet anet “rewards” them with… removing content and putting it behind an EP? How would you feel if they announce another new expansion, when it comes out they remove all raids and you cnly play them again if you buy that new EP? That’s what happend with fractals.
• besides (as mentioned) they already have other means of income: the gem store AND people buying the living world (season 2).

Maybe I’m just “old fashioned” but I believe people would be happier to pay for an EP if it adds new cool stuff (like add more fractals, more levels update, more dungeons, etc…) and not because what they have is removed and/or nerfed into crap unless you buy the latest EP… Doing this (removing/nerfing stuff) only tells me that anet has NO confidence in their own product

kittenatiel.2874:

vespers.1759:

It doesn’t take more than kindergarten logic to understand that a good expansion should leave the base game alone and instead offer new things to encourage players to buy.

Anet has apparently completely failed to understand this, as they have gone the route of kittening over players in a sad attempt to force them to buy.

Because Anet is a company that needs money in order to provide their employees with salaries. It is kindergarten logic that you are a consumer and consumers spend money to enjoy products/services.

Welcome to the world, if you are 16, go get a job. If you are younger than 16 and perfer to live under a rock, go play some other game. Complaining about having to spend money as a consumer is below kindergarten logic.

This expansion will provide entertainment for the next two years for $50. That is a laughable amount of bang for buck.

As someone who is going to buy HoT I also find this move by Anet very cheap. I mean the rewards were always there why lock it behind the expac? Even after I buy HoT I would still want people to play with, people who I could’ve played with but quit because they couldn’t play fotm without the expac. Fotm is so fun now too bad the system sucks.

I dunno, while I really want to try the new HoT stuff, I am actually happy, that I didn’t buy the expansion early on.

The voice of reason in the back of my head has proven to be right. This expansion is a stunt pulled off by ANet and is pretty much against all my personal standards in every single way.

I have bought over 50 MMO expansions in my life, good ones and bad ones, but there has always been one expansion of a game that made me stop playing that MMO.

Too bad that it looks like for GW2 it is already the first one.

NathanH.1465:

SkiTz.4590:

Anet doesn’t generate revenue with subs. It has to have other means of income.

This is where it comes in… it makes logical sense to entise players to BUY the xpac….

At the end of the day, Anet is a business, and they need income to operate it.

They will do whats best for them, its a business decision.

They don’t give a crap that core game players are HILARIOUSLY left behind in terms of making progress in GW2….

All the good money making strategies are now tied behind HoT…(raids and fractals, SW will be chump change compared to the new HoT Map rewards)

Want a more diverse and potentially BETTER spec to PvP/WvW with? pay up and buy HoT for elite specs… otherwise, you will get roflstomped in PvP/WvW by better specs.

its a cheap move, no doubt, but at the end of the day, anet is a business. They value THE PAYING CUSTOMER. NOT THE FREE.

I believe you are forgetting something:

• what about those that bought the base game (before HoT was on sale and/or before the ftp move)? They are paying customers, yet anet “rewards” them with… removing content and putting it behind an EP? How would you feel if you announce another new expansion, when it comes out they remove all raids and you cnly play them again if you buy that new EP? That’s what happend with fractals.
• besides (as mentioned) they already have other means of income: the gem store AND people buying the living world (season 2).

Point 1: No doubt, we WERE paying customers… but it was 50-60 bucks… one time… and got to play for what, 3 years? Anet believes we got our value , simple as that.
I hate what they did to fractals/dungs, and they deserve flak for it, but heh, welcome to the business of… well.. doing business lol. They want to make HoT as attractive as possible, unfortunately they decided to do so by flipping off the core gamers.

Point 2: that was NOT enough revenue. Why do you think anet stopped Living Story for the past year almost and decided to work on an xpac? REVENUE.

Gemstore sales aren’t going to keep this game afloat. Anet saw that and this was the reaction. HoT.

Also Living story sales? really? ain’t no one buying that nonsense outside a handful of extremely casual players who are deeply into that stuff…. If I want a single player story mode like progression, I go play a well developed single player game like Witcher 3.

There is one word that can explain this move: GREED.

SkiTz.4590:

welcome to the business of… well.. doing business lol.

What about “goodwill”? At least in gaming industry, this should be a very important asset.

What Anet is doing now for HOT is often done by companies that do not plan to be in business for long and just want to grab as much money as possible for now. This really makes me worry about the future of the Guild Wars franchise.

MyriadStars.5679:

SkiTz.4590:

welcome to the business of… well.. doing business lol.

What about “goodwill”? At least in gaming industry, this should be a very important asset.

What Anet is doing now for HOT is often done by companies that do not plan to be in business for long and just want to grab as much money as possible for now. This really makes me worry about the future of the Guild Wars franchise.

heh, you will find no arguments against what you are saying from us players, customers. but look at the world lol.

Its been a massive change in how ppl are conducting business…. most companies now days, all they see is dollar signs…. its gotten worse and worse and worse.

Anet would just respond by saying “goodwill? really? 3 years of free updates after initial 60 dollar purchase IS good will. Now pay up if you want more!”

SkiTz.4590:

Point 1: No doubt, we WERE paying customers… but it was 50-60 bucks… one time… and got to play for what, 3 years? Anet believes we got our value , simple as that.
I hate what they did to fractals/dungs, and they deserve flak for it, but heh, welcome to the business of… well.. doing business lol. They want to make HoT as attractive as possible, unfortunately they decided to do so by flipping off the core gamers.

Point 2: that was NOT enough revenue. Why do you think anet stopped Living Story for the past year almost and decided to work on an xpac? REVENUE.

Gemstore sales aren’t going to keep this game afloat. Anet saw that and this was the reaction. HoT.

Also Living story sales? really? ain’t no one buying that nonsense outside a handful of extremely casual players who are deeply into that stuff…. If I want a single player story mode like progression, I go play a well developed single player game like Witcher 3.

1) So? You still paid for that stuff. If I buy a tv* and use for 3 years no store is coming to take it back ‘cause they haven’t made enough money from me those 3 years :p
For ANY bussiness there is 1 thing more important then money and that’s your (existing) customers. The better you treat your customers the higher the chance they’ll return for more (and sometimes even get their friends to join). If you don’t they tell their friends not to bother (meaning less customers for anet) resulting in less profit for anet.

2) If it wasn’t enough, then why did it take them so long to to release an EP? The living world begin in oktober/november after the game release (coupled with gem store stuff). And if nobody buys season 2, then why do they still charge money for it? They could have included it in the EP (as some sort of gesture). Besides there is no way to know how money people actually bought it (unless there is a detailed financial report I’m missing)

• Since anet likes to compare their Living stuff to some series, I found it a bit fitting to compare the entire game to a tv. lol

Except that you paid for certain stuff and now anet takes it away from you for no (good) reason at all. You paid for stuff and now anet

SkiTz.4590:

Anet would just respond by saying “goodwill? really? 3 years of free updates after initial 60 dollar purchase IS good will. Now pay up if you want more!”

Goodwill isn’t worth anything, if they “undo” it after a little while :/

SkiTz.4590:

Its been a massive change in how ppl are conducting business…. most companies now days, all they see is dollar signs…. its gotten worse and worse and worse.

Sure, it’s true for many companies, especially internet/TV/phone/rental/airline companies. However, if GW2 wants to remain an A+ product, reputation and goodwill will play a vital role.

SkiTz.4590:

How has this not been obvious already?

Anet doesn’t generate revenue with subs. It has to have other means of income.

This is where it comes in… it makes logical sense to entise players to BUY the xpac….

At the end of the day, Anet is a business, and they need income to operate it.

They will do whats best for them, its a business decision.

They don’t give a crap that core game players are HILARIOUSLY left behind in terms of making progress in GW2….

All the good money making strategies are now tied behind HoT…(raids and fractals, SW will be chump change compared to the new HoT Map rewards)

Want a more diverse and potentially BETTER spec to PvP/WvW with? pay up and buy HoT for elite specs… otherwise, you will get roflstomped in PvP/WvW by better specs.

its a cheap move, no doubt, but at the end of the day, anet is a business. They value THE PAYING CUSTOMER. NOT THE FREE.

The paying customer has the core game unlocked genius, or did you forget a lot of us paid over $60 for the original and another $50 for HoT…

I don’t even fractal, but fractals are apart of the base game and have been for 3 years, it is not HoT content.

From what I can see… Nothing was taken away. At all… The rewards unlocked through the masteries seem to be pertaining to an increase from the base rewards, in addition to adding the stuff required for the Legendary back piece to the drop tables.

Last time I checked, legendary fractal back piece is technically HoT content.

New wvw map = Edge of the mist 2 ,a pve map… tnx anet…

i want back the old Borders!!!!

This Thread is full with absurd opinions, really hillarious. Have you ever played any game which made an expension at all? What did you expect? The Dungeon nerf was btw reasonable because it was way to rewarding compared to other things when it just takes you around 10min to get all the stuff by skipping 80% of the content. This is really weak from everyone of you who compains here.

Punished for not buying? You should count yourself lucky you didn’t part with any cash for that mess!!

I’ll add that if you have a guild without HoT, it is now far less then what it was a day ago, with 0 chance of building it back up.

Amaya.1483:

This Thread is full with absurd opinions, really hillarious. Have you ever played any game which made an expension at all? What did you expect? The Dungeon nerf was btw reasonable because it was way to rewarding compared to other things when it just takes you around 10min to get all the stuff by skipping 80% of the content. This is really weak from everyone of you who compains here.

Dunno. I’ve bought more expansions from Everquest2 alone than Anet have produced in the life of the company.

I’ve never seen a company purposefully destroy core content to leverage an expansion purchase. Until now. Yeah, “innovation”.

The model always used was “Buy this to get these cool additions” not “Buy this to get back what we took away”.

It is a very poor way to do business.

Let me give you a quick example in addition to my other Post. Have you all played any other MMO like for example WoW? Not bying exp? OK, so no new Gear, no new Talents, way less Gold, literally everything is worse without buying the expension, GW2 is for that part still amazing without HoT, you may wanna look over your table once.

Amaya.1483:

Let me give you a quick example in addition to my other Post. Have you all played any other MMO like for example WoW? Not bying exp? OK, so no new Gear, no new Talents, way less Gold, literally everything is worse without buying the expension, GW2 is for that part still amazing without HoT, you may wanna look over your table once.

Any other MMO? EnB, Everquest, SWG, WoW, Everquest2, Vanguard, LoTRo, AoC, SWToR, that enough?

Expansions in those games did NOT make older expansions or content “worse”. That content largely stayed the same, and the expansions added new content and features “stacked” on that older content. I’ve often been a year behind on EQ2 expansions, because the expansion I was playing did not change. I could play it until I was ready and needed the new one. The point being.. I did not NEED the features in the new expansion until I decided to buy it and play it.

That isn’t the case with HoT. The older content has been altered to leverage purchase of HoT. Fact is, GW2 core is now “less amazing” by design. Example.. Guilds. No point to have a Guild without HoT, you can’t upgrade one now without it. Terrible precedent.