Guild Wars 2

I’ve only played warrior and guardian at high level and it seems to me that they bring far more to the table than other groups. I’m not talking about damage, I’m talking about group support and buffs.

Warrior: 2 banners which bring 180 power, 180 precision, and 15% crit damage. 150 power to group in combat. Permanent 3 stacks might. 50% group fury uptime. AE revive with warbanner.
Guardian: Multiple reflects on short cooldown, group stability, protection, huge heals with elite skill, group aegis
Mesmer: Reflects and group quickness, portals for exploiting
Ranger: 150 precision
Thief: Group stealth
Elementalist: ?
Necromancer: ?
Engineer: ???

It seems like the top 3 can bring huge amounts of damage and utility (ie, reflects are OP in PvE) without giving up good damage, while the rest are just there are filler spots when you already have your warrior and guardian and mesmer. Doesn’t this seem like a gigantic disparity?

This isn’t even going into how Warrior/Guardian are based on melee, which is superior to ranged for PvE content, while some other classes have to use awkward and unoptimized weapon sets to fit into that playstyle (look at ranger sword autoattack chain, for example).

It is a huge problem we’ve posted about it at length in the class forums and as posted in the Collaboration thread we’ve talked about the need for more communication in class forums about these issues. the last three classes are the worst for boons of any significance, have way too much RNG for their boons, and conditions are nominal at best but they are forced to use conditions because they are hybrid classes. Also, let me correct 1 thing. Ele has AOE healing and can create items that give boons when they are used, that makes them better then the engineer by far so you were right to place them at the bottom. Also the stealing functions of thieves as well as a couple of well placed stealthbombs can make a difference in extra condi removal and some regen. Id say that the last three should read Ranger, Necro, Engi.

Outside the top 3 I wasn’t really ranking them, just put them in order that they came to mind.

Here’s a few of the rangers support abilities, just off the top of my head:

• AoE healing, regen, condition removal and a water field (Healing Spring)
• Give everyone 5 stacks of might ever 30 seconds (Stalkers F2 ability)
• AoE protection, swiftness, chance to apply burning or extra damage from spirits
• Removal all conditions from nearby allies (Signet of Renewal)
• Give everyone protection (Blue Moa F2)
• Give everyone regen (Fern Hound F2)

Eles can also bring lots of boons, Engis can might stack and they have stealth too.
Necros bring more “utility” than suport, they spread conditions, can aoe blind and chill at the same time and can turn conditions into boons.
But yea some classes bring more to the table than others.

Engineers will get more reliable party boons on Tuesday, if the leaked patch notes holds up. This by eliminating the RNG on certain thrown elixirs.

And the necro transfusion trait (for Death Shroud #4 Life Transfer) will supposedly scale with healing power at that point as well.

Still, in a PVE group situation necromancers are hampered by mob design above all else. Because necromancers rely on conversion rather than dispensing. They convert boons to conditions, and conditions to boons. So they are very reliant on how the mob operates in what they can bring to the fight.

I think a bigger issue is not so much who can bring what, but how little builds affect the effectiveness of what they bring. there is just a single stat line for boons, how long they last.

I started to write a post from a perspective of S/D Ele, but figured, it’s gonna be too long and too many details, so i’ll write a short version. I’ve been running new TA path recently on a Warrior, Guardian, Ele and a Thief. On Ele i had smoothiest runs so far. It matters less if my party members can kite and dodge properly when i’am on Ele, because of aoe kncokdown, blinds, knockback, condi removals, aoe heals and boon applying. Add to this might stacking and strong aoe dps. All at the same time, all coming along naturally from just playing your class properly. On trash packs it feels like going like a knife through butter. On Warrior and especially Guardian, not so much. And banners… no, thank you. Too slow, too long cd and frankly buffs are neglectable. Nuke>cc>nuke, thats how GW2’s PvE work in my experience.

Warrior and guardian can cleave, where’s the problem?

Banners are amazing as well, 180+ precision, 180+ power and 10%+ crit damage is nothing to sneeze at.

That’s not to say it’s worth stacking warriors, just that while most people exaggerate about them, I’d say you’re downplaying them too much.

Eles can bring in conjured weapons. Nothing beats destroying structures with an ice bow, meaning that for dungeons like for example AC they’re very useful.
Necromancers can bring wells.
engineer buffs are sort of random, however you can still find ways of supporting your party. For example CoF P3, where you need to run trough a path of bombs. If you have no thieves in your party engineers can drop a shorter version of invisibility if they equip their invulnerably ability and use the F1, F2, F3, etc buttons.

Wells are terrible.

Literally every single one of them is useless in PvE.

Engineer- Constant 25 stacks of vulnerability and lots of bleeding. ~90% uptime on net turret for bosses such as Mossman.
Ele – Lots of fire fields and if spec’ed for it, lots of might stacking.
Necro – Nothing at all. I deleted mines at lvl ~30.

colesy.8490:

Wells are terrible.

Literally every single one of them is useless in PvE.

your personal opinion bro.

Well of blood – the heal isn’t needed on allies
Well of corruption – most enemies aren’t boon-centric, and if they are then the conversion is irrelevant unless you’re hitting protection. Even then, boon stripping can be done by a mesmer or thief, and on shorter cooldown.
Well of darkness – Pretty decent, but other classes can stack CC and guardians are amazing blind spammers with four of them built in to a GS + Sw/F build (+ virtue).
Well of power – PvE isn’t condition-centric either, plus you can just have a guardian with PoV
Well of suffering – ….meh. Other classes can stack vuln and … deal damage.

Guardians single-handedly can cover the effects of four of those wells, plus offer reliable aegis, group stability, projectile reflection, permanent protection and more relevant combo fields.

Danikat.8537:

Here’s a few of the rangers support abilities, just off the top of my head:

• AoE healing, regen, condition removal and a water field (Healing Spring)
• Give everyone 5 stacks of might ever 30 seconds (Stalkers F2 ability)
• AoE protection, swiftness, chance to apply burning or extra damage from spirits
• Removal all conditions from nearby allies (Signet of Renewal)
• Give everyone protection (Blue Moa F2)
• Give everyone regen (Fern Hound F2)

Pets and spirits tend to get nuked fast. If they aren’t then you don’t really need any support and are likely afk-spamming ‘1’ anyway. Healing spring is nice, but for it to be really useful you will likely need to go melee. And have someone else trigger it with their own blast finishers.
Lack of viable party support is one of the current ranger problems.

colesy.8490:

Well of blood – the heal isn’t needed on allies

That’s why people run healing guardians and warriors. Because heals ain’t needed. Like I said, your opinion.

Warrior - Highest armor, highest hp, 2nd highest damage, best mobility, best cc, 2nd best support

Elementalist - Lowest armor, lowest hp, low damage, low mobility, 2nd best cc, high upport

ANet believes these 2 classes to be equal. I believe I have no faith in the devs to properly balance the game.

@colesy.8490
I didn’t make myself clear then. I didn’t mean to downplay Warriors, they’re, in my opinion, the most powerful class in PvE, and in a good group a Warrior would be preferable over Ele, just because he can unload so much so fast. I guess what i meant to say is, it seems, that in your everyday LFG Tool group having a good Ele can be something like a foolproof for your party, as he/she can provide your group with a safe window during each fight, through cc’s, blinds, condi removal and protection, and during that window your group is free to unload all they want, and that kinda makes things easier for everybody. On War and Grd i often see my party members struggle to survive and dying to confusion stacks and cc, while when i’am on Ele it’s usually just a nuke fest.

As of banners, Warbanner aside, i still don’t like them. To get those 160,160,15% you’ll need 2 banners, that’s 2 utility slots, that’s double the casting time, 90 secs duration rarely needed, except during boss fights and 120 sec. cd is harsh. They might be worth it during stationary boss fights, maybe. It’s just there are better skills you can pick, in my opinion, and maybe it’s just not my thing.

Peetee.9406:

Warrior – Highest armor, highest hp, 2nd highest damage, best mobility, best cc, 2nd best support

Elementalist – Lowest armor, lowest hp, low damage, low mobility, 2nd best cc, high upport

ANet believes these 2 classes to be equal. I believe I have no faith in the devs to properly balance the game.

wtkittend of game are you playing? warrior isnt even close to second highest damag, if anything it ties for 4th