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Posted by: mazut.4296

mazut.4296

Why not make easy change and add boons to most foes around Tyria, especially core maps. Maybe from lvl30 and above. This way everything will get a little bit harder and balance the slow but steady power creep.
Start with few buffs and the higher the level area the more buffs and stacks foes can apply to themselves and their allies. Make some foes to be enchanters and buff their surrounding allies.

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

The problem I have with every suggestion about “making the game more difficult to everyone else” is that not all players have played the game for 5 years straight, have the best possible gear and fine-tuned builds. There are still players who use blues or greens in core Tyria, they find those same enemies quite a challenge.

Again, to clarify, the game is easy for YOU, but your solution is to make it more difficult to EVERYONE.

And now, the challenge for you to try. Remove all your legendary gear, and only use white rarity. Fight without weapon like proper hero. Make sure no traits are selected. This way, the enemies you find too easy will be more challenging to YOU while everyone else is not affected.

Also the HoT was so horrible disaster because some bored players kept posting “more difficulty” in the forum. For whatever reason Anet listened, instead of looking at the players who were happily playing the game.

(edited by FogLeg.9354)

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

And now, the challenge for you to try. Remove all your legendary gear, and only use white rarity. Fight without weapon like proper hero. Make sure no traits are selected. This way, the enemies you find too easy will be more challenging to YOU while everyone else is not affected.

Not really, no. The enemies in this game aren’t easy because of your power level, they are easy because you learn their behavior, you know what to expect and how to counter it. Less power will just make them take more time to kill, while posing exactly the same level of threat: none. That’s not a challenge, that’s only grind.

That being said, I don’t mind open world to be the cakewalk it is. There’s enough instanced content for players who seek challenge.

P.S. HoT is still cakewalk, not “horrible disaster”.

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Posted by: Abakk.9176

Abakk.9176

P.S. HoT is still cakewalk, not “horrible disaster”.

I wouldn’t call it a horrible disaster but it isn’t a particular cakewalk either.. to this player anyway.

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Posted by: zengara.8301

zengara.8301

I got the feeling some people did not read the actual suggestion. I would actually like it more, if instead just increase dmg, health etc of each unit, that the unit required more skill to kill. At the very least, hero point bosses, other other bosses that will most likely be done solo or in a very small group (and by that I mean that the opponent stuns, dodges when attacked, heals etc) This way, it becomes more interesting to fight 1v1 and explore-

To the people sugguesting that the game is not hard, I would recommend you to make a lvl 25, you probably have the means to do so, and go LFG for only lvl 25´s. I used to solo Arah with a thief, back in the days of 2 dodges and also fully did path 4 arah alone, and I have dont catacomb……really…really many times, to the point I know the rotation of all the graveling burrows. And with 1 lvl 80´s and 4 lvl 25-ish players, we still managed to not complete it.
Doing it with 2-3 lvl 80´s is simply to easy, the AOE and sustain is to strong, but with 1 or less, the challenge becomes real
You should be able to, you probably have at least like 500+ tomes of knowledge, so making a lvl 25 would be quickly done, and buying gear takes 2 secs from any random shop.

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

Again, to clarify, the game is easy for YOU, but your solution is to make it more difficult to EVERYONE.

To be fair he said to give mobs buffs to counter the power creep. The mobs at release, even with downscaling, were designed for specific amounts of stats, and damage, without elite specs and so on.

What he probably failed to realize is that players still play on low level zones, using low level characters. I know it’s shocking that a level 30 player is playing on a level 30 zone.

That said, I’d rather they buff scaled event mobs significantly to use more interesting abilities because right now when loads of players gather at events the mobs that spawn have a bazillion hit points, deal a bazillion points of damage, but have no actual mechanics. Huge damage sponges that 1-shot everyone are not fun at all, instead those event mobs could be updated to use better and more interesting skills and abilities.

The regular open world, especially the lower levels, are just fine.

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

ANet did revisions to two launch game armies (Krait and Risen) a long time ago. After that, they began focusing on introducing new armies whose mobs are more challenging, at least until players no longer have to think about them. I doubt they’ll return to buff older armies, especially given the initiative to produce ongoing LS content while simultaneously cranking out a new XPac.

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

ANet did revisions to two launch game armies (Krait and Risen) a long time ago.

The first army they revised was the Flame Legion and the Dredge, in their Molten Alliance form. There were some excellent mobs in the Molten Alliance that were more mechanically heavy than core mobs, sadly they all disappeared when the Molten Alliance was defeated.

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Posted by: PookieDaWombat.6209

PookieDaWombat.6209

Honestly, adding more/proper boons to enemies aren’t going to make them “zomg the insta death” to lower level players. In fact it might make them consider their choice of skills a little more, or traits, etc that allow for boon strip and condi cleanse, etc. OP does have a point that once you reach a certain level, the mobs do become a little easy to faceroll without much thought to gear or even personal skill. Sure it could take a while but most times when doing a map open or something, or even a HP in core tyria I find myself literally running in a circle around an enemy with my 1 set to auto while I drink my coffee. I only ever use the other skills if I want to practice a combo or something like that, but usually its just a kiting game.

[OTR] – Greck Howlbane – Guardian
Soraya Mayhew – Thief
Melissa Koris – Engie – SF for Life!

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

The only reason I’d support OP’s idea is that having more boons out in open world enemies would give more weight to boon strip and corruption. It could be a teaching moment for newer players when they see enemy boons more often.

And with Spellbreaker coming up, I actually hope enemy boonshare is a thing with PoF. Right now, the elite just seems so PvP-oriented that it might have limited utility in open world content.

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

Honestly, adding more/proper boons to enemies aren’t going to make them “zomg the insta death” to lower level players. In fact it might make them consider their choice of skills a little more, or traits, etc that allow for boon strip and condi cleanse, etc. OP does have a point that once you reach a certain level, the mobs do become a little easy to faceroll without much thought to gear or even personal skill. Sure it could take a while but most times when doing a map open or something, or even a HP in core tyria I find myself literally running in a circle around an enemy with my 1 set to auto while I drink my coffee. I only ever use the other skills if I want to practice a combo or something like that, but usually its just a kiting game.

There’s a problem with that. The game already has places where you need to think about your build. Instanced content, pvp modes, specific achievements. Open world serves as a kind of sandbox, which allows you to “play your way”. This is even true for HoT zones. All they require you to do is step away from the red circles or lines. Sometimes it might help you if you can break out of immob, but even without it you can generally play with anything you want. I don’t think that should change, tbh.

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Posted by: PookieDaWombat.6209

PookieDaWombat.6209

Honestly, adding more/proper boons to enemies aren’t going to make them “zomg the insta death” to lower level players. In fact it might make them consider their choice of skills a little more, or traits, etc that allow for boon strip and condi cleanse, etc. OP does have a point that once you reach a certain level, the mobs do become a little easy to faceroll without much thought to gear or even personal skill. Sure it could take a while but most times when doing a map open or something, or even a HP in core tyria I find myself literally running in a circle around an enemy with my 1 set to auto while I drink my coffee. I only ever use the other skills if I want to practice a combo or something like that, but usually its just a kiting game.

There’s a problem with that. The game already has places where you need to think about your build. Instanced content, pvp modes, specific achievements. Open world serves as a kind of sandbox, which allows you to “play your way”. This is even true for HoT zones. All they require you to do is step away from the red circles or lines. Sometimes it might help you if you can break out of immob, but even without it you can generally play with anything you want. I don’t think that should change, tbh.

See, and there lies the rub. I’ve seen no shortage of DPS meter threads lately where someone inevitably brings up player skill levels. I’m all for play your way, but i should not be able to run a literal circle around a mob in a level 70-80 zone with letting my auto attack kill them. Sure I can kill them faster, but the point here is I don’t HAVE to. Might hit my heal on occasion if they manage to land a hit. Might hit a daze on them or a knockback if they get too close, but that does nothing for me as a player. I’m sorry, but what you simply say as “get out of the red circle” is over simplifying the fights in HoT maps. You have to do way more than that to survive there and there are a lot of players coming from core Tyria maps that have developed very bad habits, don’t do many instanced things because their skill level is too low and they get kicked by meter users and then go to a HoT map and get wrecked by pocket raptors and a few mordrem guards.

I’m not saying ramp up the enemies in QD, but if you’re in frostgorge or fireheart or even blazeridge, you should be more concerned about knowing your skills and build options and not just rolling over anything with some hodge podge of gear that makes no sense together while smashing 1 on your keyboard. It might even make trying to get level appropriate gear more more rewarding for the players as they level as opposed to “oh, this one has numbers that are a little bigger than what i’m wearing right now so sure I’ll wear it because ultimately it doesn’t matter”.

[OTR] – Greck Howlbane – Guardian
Soraya Mayhew – Thief
Melissa Koris – Engie – SF for Life!

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

Honestly, adding more/proper boons to enemies aren’t going to make them “zomg the insta death” to lower level players. In fact it might make them consider their choice of skills a little more, or traits, etc that allow for boon strip and condi cleanse, etc. OP does have a point that once you reach a certain level, the mobs do become a little easy to faceroll without much thought to gear or even personal skill. Sure it could take a while but most times when doing a map open or something, or even a HP in core tyria I find myself literally running in a circle around an enemy with my 1 set to auto while I drink my coffee. I only ever use the other skills if I want to practice a combo or something like that, but usually its just a kiting game.

There’s a problem with that. The game already has places where you need to think about your build. Instanced content, pvp modes, specific achievements. Open world serves as a kind of sandbox, which allows you to “play your way”. This is even true for HoT zones. All they require you to do is step away from the red circles or lines. Sometimes it might help you if you can break out of immob, but even without it you can generally play with anything you want. I don’t think that should change, tbh.

See, and there lies the rub. I’ve seen no shortage of DPS meter threads lately where someone inevitably brings up player skill levels. I’m all for play your way, but i should not be able to run a literal circle around a mob in a level 70-80 zone with letting my auto attack kill them. Sure I can kill them faster, but the point here is I don’t HAVE to. Might hit my heal on occasion if they manage to land a hit. Might hit a daze on them or a knockback if they get too close, but that does nothing for me as a player. I’m sorry, but what you simply say as “get out of the red circle” is over simplifying the fights in HoT maps. You have to do way more than that to survive there and there are a lot of players coming from core Tyria maps that have developed very bad habits, don’t do many instanced things because their skill level is too low and they get kicked by meter users and then go to a HoT map and get wrecked by pocket raptors and a few mordrem guards.

I’m not saying ramp up the enemies in QD, but if you’re in frostgorge or fireheart or even blazeridge, you should be more concerned about knowing your skills and build options and not just rolling over anything with some hodge podge of gear that makes no sense together while smashing 1 on your keyboard. It might even make trying to get level appropriate gear more more rewarding for the players as they level as opposed to “oh, this one has numbers that are a little bigger than what i’m wearing right now so sure I’ll wear it because ultimately it doesn’t matter”.

I’ve bolded the places where you went wrong.

First, these players got kicked long before dps meters became a thing. The truth is, it takes patience to teach new players stuff and more often than not veteran players don’t want to bother doing it, they just want a quick run. You just need to be persistent and to actually learn things. You had to be persistent back before dps meters, you have to be persistent now.

Second, amping up the mobs in high-level zones won’t make casual players care about their builds. It will scare them off the high-level zones. It won’t be healthy for the game.

By the way if you’re dying to pocket raptors in the jungle, I’m willing to bet you’re also dying in Cursed Shore.

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Posted by: Osby.5390

Osby.5390

would be cool if enemies had boons would give the boon stripper classes actually something to strip in PVE.

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Posted by: Hyrai.8720

Hyrai.8720

Just leave core-tyria as some kind of sandbox for new/unexperienced players.
Of course maybe they will develop some form of bad habits.
But they will learn to optimize their gear, build and strategy as soon as they want to play more challenging, instanced content. Or to finish the easy content faster. Just like we all did.

If you want to make vanilla tyria more challenging “to stop newbies from developing bad habits”, why not remove T1 and T2 fracs while you’re at it?

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Posted by: Hesacon.8735

Hesacon.8735

Boons could be offset by changes in base stats. Pulse 10 stacks of might every 10 seconds, but reduce power and condition damage by 300. The effective stats would be the same, but stripping the boons would have a very real effect.

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Posted by: AncientYs.8613

AncientYs.8613

Why not make easy change and add boons to most foes around Tyria, especially core maps. Maybe from lvl30 and above. This way everything will get a little bit harder and balance the slow but steady power creep.
Start with few buffs and the higher the level area the more buffs and stacks foes can apply to themselves and their allies. Make some foes to be enchanters and buff their surrounding allies.

what about we don’t?

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

Boons could be offset by changes in base stats. Pulse 10 stacks of might every 10 seconds, but reduce power and condition damage by 300. The effective stats would be the same, but stripping the boons would have a very real effect.

What is with people trying to ruin the game everyone else enjoys? Does it actually makes you feel bad when other are having fun?

There is no need to make open world PvE more difficult because it is not suppose to be. If you just want to challenge yourself, go crazy with fractals or raids or whatever those things are I never bother with. Or go solo champs in the HoT region, the expansion that was made for those who find core Tyria too easy already.

Just leave the other parts of the game alone.

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Posted by: Makai.3429

Makai.3429

Doing this would make me quit the game. It’s already become a ridiculous APM fest since HoT.

And now, the challenge for you to try. Remove all your legendary gear, and only use white rarity. Fight without weapon like proper hero. Make sure no traits are selected. This way, the enemies you find too easy will be more challenging to YOU while everyone else is not affected.

Not really, no. The enemies in this game aren’t easy because of your power level, they are easy because you learn their behavior, you know what to expect and how to counter it. Less power will just make them take more time to kill, while posing exactly the same level of threat: none. That’s not a challenge, that’s only grind.

That being said, I don’t mind open world to be the cakewalk it is. There’s enough instanced content for players who seek challenge.

P.S. In my opinion, HoT is still cakewalk, not “horrible disaster”.

Fixed that.

Proud disabled gamer. Not everyone has the capacity to git gud.

(edited by Makai.3429)

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Posted by: IndigoSundown.5419

IndigoSundown.5419

ANet did revisions to two launch game armies (Krait and Risen) a long time ago.

The first army they revised was the Flame Legion and the Dredge, in their Molten Alliance form. There were some excellent mobs in the Molten Alliance that were more mechanically heavy than core mobs, sadly they all disappeared when the Molten Alliance was defeated.

It is sad. They were more fun to fight than either of their parent mob types.

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Posted by: Healix.5819

Healix.5819

There is no need to make open world PvE more difficult because it is not suppose to be.

It actually is. Unlike other MMOs that try to appeal to the majority by making solo content trivial, ArenaNet has always been for the gamers.

The core game was actually heavily nerfed during the first beta in fear of losing players, as people were standing still and getting facerolled. HoT’s difficulty is actually a return to how the game once was, back when a level 2 Moa right out of the gate in Queensdale could kill you within its channeled flurry of pecks. An ettin for example could 1 shot you with its charged club attack. The obvious problem in trying to appeal to this audience however is that they will end up losing the average player, and without vertical progression, there is no alternative except for grouping up, which most people won’t want to bother with.

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Posted by: starlinvf.1358

starlinvf.1358

Honestly, adding more/proper boons to enemies aren’t going to make them “zomg the insta death” to lower level players. In fact it might make them consider their choice of skills a little more, or traits, etc that allow for boon strip and condi cleanse, etc. OP does have a point that once you reach a certain level, the mobs do become a little easy to faceroll without much thought to gear or even personal skill. Sure it could take a while but most times when doing a map open or something, or even a HP in core tyria I find myself literally running in a circle around an enemy with my 1 set to auto while I drink my coffee. I only ever use the other skills if I want to practice a combo or something like that, but usually its just a kiting game.

In reality, it actually makes a huge difference. Below level lvl 60, boons are disproportionately stronger because of how they scale compared to stats. However, mobs are scaled on the assumption power compounding from Traits… and its not until lvl 60 that players had access to Grandmaster traits (and points to use them) under the old 5 Trait system. For a LOT of builds, almost 1/3 of the damage potential comes from trait synergy, while another 1/3 comes from skill combinations.

As a result, high level players in low level areas are substantially stronger then low level players in matching levels, despite the fact that high levels are also underscaled to compensate for this. In fact…. they’re underscaled on all 3 vectors for raw statistics (base stats, item tier, and passive bonuses)… but the compounding power of % based traits, and baseline values of conditions and boons, they are still way stronger then level matched players.

This disparity means any bonus thats large enough to be noticeable by high level players is downright devastating to matched level. Consider Espec builds can reasonably solo Champs, while a player still leveling Core its a major struggle to not die from the collateral damage champs produce. Even standard mobs with access to boons make them twice as hard to deal with….. just look at the dredge, or other groups that boon share.

The real problem isn’t the scaling….. its the entire encounter design that lends to scaling being the only vector for difficulty. The evidence of this becomes apparent once you start looking at Mordrem. Silverwaste introduced a whole new vector of combat by giving every single one them access to CCs…. with the most dangerous being the ones that can stack it (ie Teragriffs). They actually don’t do that much more damage then other lvl 80 tyrian enemies…… but its the way they can layer an area with damage fields, and then trap players in them, that make them night and day more dangerous then anything the Risen had ever thrown at players. And Risen were considered borderline OP for a while, with their higher avg attack rate.

Looking at HOT further, Chak are the perfect example of the very primitive AI behavior being given the damage output scales of players. Aside from Chak Goop, they’re basically berskerer geared, dishing out 4-9k worth of damage per hit. They also can’t take hits either… with many falling to a single burst of damage. Thats effectively what giving boons to mobs is like, when the player doesn’t have ample access to skills that counter it. Boon strip is rare in Core…. with only Necro, Mesmer, and Rev having ready access to it at lower levels.

The irony here is that the only reason this is a problem, is the fact that Side kicking exists at all. Most games don’t even bother normalizing player stats, so that lower level content still poses a risk. And for good reason…. the encounter designs in these games are beyond basic. Even with an ounce of experience with the combat system, a vet player with just weapon skills and dodging can severely outclass a new player with access to a full range of skills. Thats why the difficulty spike of even the east most side of Verdant Brink sends players into mental shock, despite most of them being easily defeated with knowledge of simple counter tactics….. nothing in Tyria that isn’t a unique champ comes even the least bit close to behaving that way. Pocket raptors are the bane of most people’s existence….. but any moderately powerful AOE neutralizes them in short order. Stone heads are easy to manage if you time your dodges, or deploy hard CCs. But both of them together, and most player can’t handle the split in attention. Beating Mordrem is an exercise in selective targeting and field avoidance.

For this reason, HOT’s encounter design with the damage scales toned down would be the only way get a real challenge in Core Tyria. Because it exercises and rewards knowledge of mechanics, and can be relevant regardless of the stat scaling used. The closest we get to this in the current design, is the realization of how stupidly powerful dodge rolls are… to the point where we do it all the time without thinking.

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Posted by: Makai.3429

Makai.3429

There is no need to make open world PvE more difficult because it is not suppose to be.

It actually is. Unlike other MMOs that try to appeal to the majority by making solo content trivial, ArenaNet has always been for the gamers.

The core game was actually heavily nerfed during the first beta in fear of losing players, as people were standing still and getting facerolled. HoT’s difficulty is actually a return to how the game once was, back when a level 2 Moa right out of the gate in Queensdale could kill you within its channeled flurry of pecks. An ettin for example could 1 shot you with its charged club attack. The obvious problem in trying to appeal to this audience however is that they will end up losing the average player, and without vertical progression, there is no alternative except for grouping up, which most people won’t want to bother with.

I’ll never understand this fascination people have with OHKO enemies that take forever to kill. When I bought this game I expected a sequel to Guild Wars (a game that valued strategy and thinking), not Metal Slug Tyria (pure reflexes, and screw you if you’re colorblind).

Proud disabled gamer. Not everyone has the capacity to git gud.

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

It is sad. They were more fun to fight than either of their parent mob types.

The molten brawlers were my favorite. All that jumping and stomping, similar to the molten berserker boss in fractals. Or the molten defenders with their shields that made their allies immune to damage.

An often overlooked problem of the Season 1 system of delivery (temporary content) is how it affected the difficulty of the game. Anyone who remembers the Molten Alliance mobs, the powerful Watchknight mobs, the Toxic Alliance mobs (you can still find some in the open world) and others were all excellent additions to the game and honestly they served as a nice “bridge” with the expansion.

And then we got the LS2 bad boys. The Mordrem Wolves and the Mordrem Vile Thrashers were really powerful and both got nerfed badly with the release of Heart of Thorns.

All these “please don’t make core tyria harder” posts make zero sense. Every single LS1 episode made core tyria harder, so what’s the problem with future releases making core tyria harder too?

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Posted by: Hesacon.8735

Hesacon.8735

Boons could be offset by changes in base stats. Pulse 10 stacks of might every 10 seconds, but reduce power and condition damage by 300. The effective stats would be the same, but stripping the boons would have a very real effect.

What is with people trying to ruin the game everyone else enjoys? Does it actually makes you feel bad when other are having fun?

There is no need to make open world PvE more difficult because it is not suppose to be. If you just want to challenge yourself, go crazy with fractals or raids or whatever those things are I never bother with. Or go solo champs in the HoT region, the expansion that was made for those who find core Tyria too easy already.

Just leave the other parts of the game alone.

How does giving mobs exactly the same stats make the game harder?

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Posted by: Wondrouswall.7169

Wondrouswall.7169

I just want another pass on inanimate objects so old ones are updated to take damage from conditions and be susceptible to critical strikes.

PET PRECISION & DPS TESTS -OUTDATED-
Will update once Path of Fire releases.

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Posted by: AncientYs.8613

AncientYs.8613

don’t update pvE enemies!!! HoT enemies are hard enough as it is!!

PoF enemies are similar to core tyria enemy and that’s fine!

we don’t need more of HoT enemies that one shot us!!

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Posted by: Makai.3429

Makai.3429

don’t update pvE enemies!!! HoT enemies are hard enough as it is!!

PoF enemies are similar to core tyria enemy and that’s fine!

we don’t need more of HoT enemies that one shot us!!

How did you like Season 3’s enemies? I found them to be a good balance between the two.

Proud disabled gamer. Not everyone has the capacity to git gud.

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Posted by: TheOrlyFactor.8341

TheOrlyFactor.8341

Just turn the open world into one giant raid. That’ll be a huge success and a money maker for Anet.

Playing GW2 for the story is like expecting plot in a porno. You’ll be left disappointed.

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Posted by: AncientYs.8613

AncientYs.8613

don’t update pvE enemies!!! HoT enemies are hard enough as it is!!

PoF enemies are similar to core tyria enemy and that’s fine!

we don’t need more of HoT enemies that one shot us!!

How did you like Season 3’s enemies? I found them to be a good balance between the two.

yeah those were good :> (but the ones in lake doric were a bit difficult to solo, the white mantle enemies felt more like veterans with their big aoe attacks) enemies in sirens landing were just fine ^^

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

What I find interesting is that when someone mentions buffs to enemies, even some state specific buffs, there are comments that don’t want any buffs because they don’t like “raid difficulty” mobs or something like that. Well there is a huge difference between a Moa in Queensdale and a Mordrem Sniper, lots of difficulty tiers in between.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Generally speaking, as any game evolves, older content becomes easier, more so for veterans. Some people love that …and some get bored by it.

The problem with doing anything about it is… however much time that takes could be devoted to working on new content and everyone loves new stuff.

There’s a ton of stuff in the game that I wish ANet would reevaluate and update, but… there’s also a ton of stuff I want them to add. If left up to me, I’d prefer they focus on the new rather than worry too much about the old — it still works, even if it’s clunky sometimes for some of us.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Makai.3429

Makai.3429

don’t update pvE enemies!!! HoT enemies are hard enough as it is!!

PoF enemies are similar to core tyria enemy and that’s fine!

we don’t need more of HoT enemies that one shot us!!

How did you like Season 3’s enemies? I found them to be a good balance between the two.

yeah those were good :> (but the ones in lake doric were a bit difficult to solo, the white mantle enemies felt more like veterans with their big aoe attacks) enemies in sirens landing were just fine ^^

Hopefully PoF stays about the same. Season 3 enemies could be punishing if you slipped up, but not like HoT where you die instantly because your foot is off by a pixel.

Proud disabled gamer. Not everyone has the capacity to git gud.

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

The problem with doing anything about it is… however much time that takes could be devoted to working on new content and everyone loves new stuff.

Well they solved this problem with LS1. Since the new mobs of LS1 appeared on old zones, it was both new content AND updated old content. Two birds with one stone.

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Posted by: AncientYs.8613

AncientYs.8613

don’t update pvE enemies!!! HoT enemies are hard enough as it is!!

PoF enemies are similar to core tyria enemy and that’s fine!

we don’t need more of HoT enemies that one shot us!!

How did you like Season 3’s enemies? I found them to be a good balance between the two.

yeah those were good :> (but the ones in lake doric were a bit difficult to solo, the white mantle enemies felt more like veterans with their big aoe attacks) enemies in sirens landing were just fine ^^

Hopefully PoF stays about the same. Season 3 enemies could be punishing if you slipped up, but not like HoT where you die instantly because your foot is off by a pixel.

i agree :>

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Posted by: joneirikb.7506

joneirikb.7506

Thank you starlinvf.1358 for a great post, I learned a few new things. +1 and wish I could give more.

Regarding the topic, I do wish for some more difficult enemies in the open world. But I also think the world would be boring if populated with nothing but difficult enemies.

What I would like to see, is more variety. Have some easy enemies, some medium, and some hard enemies. On all maps. So players have to test and find out which enemies they can fight or not, which ones they need numbers for, or have as challenges to solo etc. Basically something for everyone.

I especially would like to see “Hard Enemy Patrols”, moving groups/bands of various harder enemies. Since they’d be moving about players that doesn’t want to fight them could wait until they moved out to do map completion behind them etc. While at the same time learn some map awareness.

It would also be good small group content, for 2-5 people to group together to take out some hard targets. Something I generally miss nowadays, as there isn’t much reason to actually group up with people in open world.

Elrik Noj (Norn Guardian, Kaineng [SIN][Owls])
“Understanding is a three edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth.”
“The objective is to win. The goal is to have fun.”

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Posted by: Irreverent.3594

Irreverent.3594

#HandsOffCoreTyria

World bosses, champs, Toxic Alliance, ley-lines etc are perfectly enough of a challenge.
Just go to Kessex and watch map pop downed markers at Toxic Alliance spots.

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Posted by: Hannelore.8153

Hannelore.8153

People act like low level players face a challenge in this game. When Revenant first came out, I was—for the first time, on a class that no player had any experience with, and yet I was still able to faceroll all Central Tyria content just by making sure that my gear was kept up-to-date instead of using random drops.

Sorry..but Central Tyria is not about skill, even on low level players. Just make sure you’re wearing the latest equipment available from your level and you will not find a challenge from anything even if you stand still, except maybe a few particularly overtuned hero challenges and events.

Most players I invite to the game leave after realising they can just auto hit everything all the way to level 80 if they have half a brain. They ask me “is the end-game content like this?” and I tell them no, and try to show them YouTube videos of LS3, etc., but they just say “this is just too boring”.

And then they regret that they paid $50 for it after I “lured” them in. At least that part went away after the core game became F2P.

The only people who get hooked on Central Tyria gameplay (which has been heavily nerfed at least twice since release BTW), is super-casuals who log in an hour a day after getting home from work.

Daisuki [SUKI] LGBT-Friendly Guild Leader | NA – Jade Quarry
I’m usually really sweet… but this an internet forum and you know how it has to be.
/i’m a lesbiab… lesbiam… less bien… GIRLS/

(edited by Hannelore.8153)

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

The conversion rate of free to play players into paid players is low and that’s confirmed by NCsoft and Arenanet.

Here is a question:
Can it be that one of the reasons is because Core Tyria is boring? How big would that reason actually be?
Food for thought.

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Posted by: Feanor.2358

Feanor.2358

Doing this would make me quit the game. It’s already become a ridiculous APM fest since HoT.

And now, the challenge for you to try. Remove all your legendary gear, and only use white rarity. Fight without weapon like proper hero. Make sure no traits are selected. This way, the enemies you find too easy will be more challenging to YOU while everyone else is not affected.

Not really, no. The enemies in this game aren’t easy because of your power level, they are easy because you learn their behavior, you know what to expect and how to counter it. Less power will just make them take more time to kill, while posing exactly the same level of threat: none. That’s not a challenge, that’s only grind.

That being said, I don’t mind open world to be the cakewalk it is. There’s enough instanced content for players who seek challenge.

P.S. In my opinion, HoT is still cakewalk, not “horrible disaster”.

Fixed that.

You forgot to fix in the same way the original claim which labelled it a horrible disaster.

The conversion rate of free to play players into paid players is low and that’s confirmed by NCsoft and Arenanet.

Here is a question:
Can it be that one of the reasons is because Core Tyria is boring? How big would that reason actually be?
Food for thought.

Technically it can, but I highly doubt it. Conversion rates like this are always low in the game business.

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Posted by: Hyrai.8720

Hyrai.8720

People act like low level players face a challenge in this game. When Revenant first came out, I was—for the first time, on a class that no player had any experience with, and yet I was still able to faceroll all Central Tyria content just by making sure that my gear was kept up-to-date instead of using random drops.

Did you consider that you, as a long-time player, have a lot more resources to collect the right gear for your new char, while new players do indeed have to play with basically “random” gear?
Also, it doesn’t matter if you play a new class for the first time, while having another character with maxed out masteries etc., because the core-mechanics stay the same.
A new player doesn’t even know those core-mechanics.

The only people who get hooked on Central Tyria gameplay (which has been heavily nerfed at least twice since release BTW), is super-casuals who log in an hour a day after getting home from work.

So… because I’m a “super-casual” I’m not allowed to enjoy the game anymore?
Do I hear a subtext that it’s a bad thing I got a job and not as much time to play as you?
You already got high-tier fractals, raids and – in terms of open-world-content – HoT, while I’ve got core-tyria and maybe low-tier-fractals.
And now you want to make core-tyria harder so you can enjoy it, while I don’t.
I hope you realize how selfish that is…

(edited by Hyrai.8720)

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

Technically it can, but I highly doubt it. Conversion rates like this are always low in the game business.

That doesn’t mean that the gameplay isn’t a prime factor for not converting. Or for players leaving the game, remember all those massive sales the game had? It managed to keep only a tiny fraction as players.

I did some searching around on various gaming websites and the word “boring” is usually part of any discussion on Guild Wars 2 and why people stopped playing it. Granted it wasn’t a very high sample, nor I did actual statistical research of any sorts, however the argument that the game is “boring” appears way too often, and it means something.

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Posted by: Rauderi.8706

Rauderi.8706

Technically it can, but I highly doubt it. Conversion rates like this are always low in the game business.

That doesn’t mean that the gameplay isn’t a prime factor for not converting. Or for players leaving the game, remember all those massive sales the game had? It managed to keep only a tiny fraction as players.

I did some searching around on various gaming websites and the word “boring” is usually part of any discussion on Guild Wars 2 and why people stopped playing it. Granted it wasn’t a very high sample, nor I did actual statistical research of any sorts, however the argument that the game is “boring” appears way too often, and it means something.

Because people don’t leave a game that’s fun?

Granted, I would be very interested in a post-mortum from people who decided to put the game down. What kind of “boredom” did they experience? Open world in the base game? Dungeons? The material grind? The post-80 experience? The limited raid experience? PvP class imbalance? Stepping foot into WvW?
It’s a huge list of possibilities.

And GW2 caters much more to “Explorer” gamers than any other type. But once world completion is done, what’s left to hold them? After Been There, Done That and the huge inconvenience that is HoT, most of what’s left is Fashion Wars.

Buuut, lamenting endgame doesn’t matter if players never get to 80. And the current vanilla mobs aren’t really going to hold any attention aside from indulging the occasional power fantasy. I’m not suggesting making them HoT hard/annoying, but nudging them up a bit, or at least giving them enough health/toughness to warrant using a rotation instead of just auto-attacks.

Though, it’d also be nice if the core zones offered a better variety of critter. It didn’t hit me while I was playing, but when my friends joined and quit, they were blase about “more wolves” and other repeated models of enemy that just don’t do much different. The visual and tactical variety just wasn’t there for them.

Many alts; handle it!
“I’m finding companies should sell access to forums,
it seems many like them better than the games they comment on.” -Horrorscope.7632

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Posted by: maddoctor.2738

maddoctor.2738

Granted, I would be very interested in a post-mortum from people who decided to put the game down. What kind of “boredom” did they experience? Open world in the base game? Dungeons? The material grind? The post-80 experience? The limited raid experience? PvP class imbalance? Stepping foot into WvW?
It’s a huge list of possibilities.

True. The word “boring” can mean different things to different players. For example, the introduction of Ascended gear was meant to combat the “boring” part of gearing. A fresh level 80 could easily get exotic gear of the stats they wanted and then asked “what now?”

Buuut, lamenting endgame doesn’t matter if players never get to 80. And the current vanilla mobs aren’t really going to hold any attention aside from indulging the occasional power fantasy. I’m not suggesting making them HoT hard/annoying, but nudging them up a bit, or at least giving them enough health/toughness to warrant using a rotation instead of just auto-attacks.

Yep. Exactly. And it’s not only while leveling, you can fight the Risen in Orr with a random build while equipped with masterwork gear and only using your auto attack. A game with such an active combat system goes to waste when it’s not used by the content. But as we’ve seen in this thread, any idea to buff the mobs to make them more fun and exciting instead of hp sponges is dismissed because to some players there exist two types of mobs: the ultra easy one and the ultra hard one, without anything in between.

Oh my god don’t buff the mobs because I will quit if I can’t fight them pressing only 1 on my keyboard.

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Posted by: mazut.4296

mazut.4296

Interesting discussions and as I expected it splits into 2. Pro and against. At least there are not many trolls, which is great
One thing I don’t really understood tho. Why do people find HoT that much harder? After I entered the 1st story instance and got whacked, i just changed my build and gear for a little bit tankier version and never looked back. Never had any problems in HoT apart from playing the thief, but I’m pretty bad with thief anyway. Either people kept trying to play full zerk, banging their heads in the wall or they never learned their professions, I’m really baffled.

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Posted by: TheRandomGuy.7246

TheRandomGuy.7246

After I entered the 1st story instance and got whacked, i just changed my build and gear for a little bit tankier version and never looked back.

This is pretty advanced stuff for an average player. When you learn your class and traits you are already half way to the “elitist” status.

Not sure if they gonna buff the mobs to make it more difficult and engaging. Few years ago they dumbed down starting maps to the point where you need to dance for cows instead of take hay and feed them, and level locked half the game because “it was confusing for the new players”.

(edited by TheRandomGuy.7246)

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

Boons on npc’s does not makes game harder.. it would be actually fun if mob’s add an a.i with players / classes skills.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: mazut.4296

mazut.4296

After I entered the 1st story instance and got whacked, i just changed my build and gear for a little bit tankier version and never looked back.

This is pretty advanced stuff for an average player. When you learn your class and traits you are already half way to the “elitist” status.

Not sure if they gonna buff the mobs to make it more difficult and engaging. Few years ago they dumbed down starting maps to the point where you need to dance for cows instead of take hay and feed them, and level locked half the game because “it was confusing for the new players”.

HoT is not for new players tho

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Posted by: mazut.4296

mazut.4296

Boons on npc’s does not makes game harder.. it would be actually fun if mob’s add an a.i with players / classes skills.

New AI is way better, but this will never happen, to much work where boons is way easier to implement.

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Posted by: Hyper Cutter.9376

Hyper Cutter.9376

I just want another pass on inanimate objects so old ones are updated to take damage from conditions and be susceptible to critical strikes.

Yeah, that.

Fixing actively buggy attacks with hitboxes that don’t remotely line up with the animations would also help (sharks, charging teragriffs, etc).