Guild Wars 2

hello everyone!

today debate topic is:

“PvE players are demanding and impossible to satisfy”

i think this is true, just look at the PvE forums!

every day, there will always be various players complaining about lack of PvE content, keeps on asking for more content, and when free new content is delivered, they quickly gobble it up, complains again, and then continues to ask for more!

they are not being appreciative of what we have, and keeps on asking for more.

personally, i think ANet is burning out their precious employees by attempting to satisfy the PvE mob that can never be satisfied.

their precious human resources ought to be better spent else where, not just on the PvE mob.

so what do you think?

i’m a pve player, and i only demand 1 thing: fixing the PS. sure, there’s alot of pve players who demand alot (raids, more dungeons, new classes, expansion, blahblah), but just because some are, doesn’t mean we all are. my 2 cents

JusticarArkiel.1564:

i’m a pve player, and i only demand 1 thing: fixing the PS. sure, there’s alot of pve players who demand alot (raids, more dungeons, new classes, expansion, blahblah), but just because some are, doesn’t mean we all are. my 2 cents

that’s a good point!

fixing the personal story, that’s a fair demand actually.

as a casual pve / spvp / wvw player myself, i too would want the personal story to be fixed as well.

thanks for the feedback!

I’m not sure if this is a bait post, but assuming you’re asking seriously…

The reason why it seems like the PvE crowd is non-stop complaining is because every time there’s a change or new content introduced, it’s a different group of people complaining every time. (Just like how over in sPvP, for example, you get people complaining that Engineers or Warriors are OP. ANet tweaks the classes, and then the Engineers or Warriors start complaining. To someone who isn’t familiar with the Profession or PvP forums, it would also seem like the PvP crowd is a pack of ungrateful malcontents.)

The trick is learning how to sift through the comments to garner actual, worthwhile feedback, while ignoring those who are simply venting or who don’t understand the reasons why certain changes have been made the way they have.

Zaxares.5419:

I’m not sure if this is a bait post, but assuming you’re asking seriously…

The reason why it seems like the PvE crowd is non-stop complaining is because every time there’s a change or new content introduced, it’s a different group of people complaining every time. (Just like how over in sPvP, for example, you get people complaining that Engineers or Warriors are OP. ANet tweaks the classes, and then the Engineers or Warriors start complaining. To someone who isn’t familiar with the Profession or PvP forums, it would also seem like the PvP crowd is a pack of ungrateful malcontents.)

The trick is learning how to sift through the comments to garner actual, worthwhile feedback, while ignoring those who are simply venting or who don’t understand the reasons why certain changes have been made the way they have.

o hai there Zaxares!
thanks for your feedback!

well, the original post is both bait and serious.
imma bait serious responses outta people, hence, the baiting tone of it.

hmmm regarding what you wrote, i can agree with that, but, sometimes, there are people who just wants to demand, because they can?

for example, those who demands
- for higher level cap
- for more gear grind
- for harder content
- for mounts!

those who complain nothing to do after level 80 etc

As a PvE player, I feel pretty bad for PvPers and WvWer’s. I think they really got the short end of the stick. I may not love everything that comes down the pike, but at least I have stuff to do. New zones are fun to explore. New achievements are fun for me.

My only real complaint is that due to the changes in the trait system, I don’t really level alts like I used to, which I really enjoyed. However I like to play those alts at max level and it’s too expensive to buy traits for tons of alts, and it’s too much repetitive work to get the traits unlocked the free way on every alt.

So that part of my game has been taken away. That used to fill a lot of time while I was waiting for new content. Now it doesn’t.

Vayne.8563:

As a PvE player, I feel pretty bad for PvPers and WvWer’s. I think they really got the short end of the stick. I may not love everything that comes down the pike, but at least I have stuff to do. New zones are fun to explore. New achievements are fun for me.

My only real complaint is that due to the changes in the trait system, I don’t really level alts like I used to, which I really enjoyed. However I like to play those alts at max level and it’s too expensive to buy traits for tons of alts, and it’s too much repetitive work to get the traits unlocked the free way on every alt.

So that part of my game has been taken away. That used to fill a lot of time while I was waiting for new content. Now it doesn’t.

hi vayne! thanks for sharing your feedback!

yes, the thing regarding traits overhaul is a valid complaint, since they removed the original functionality of it to become more grindy then before.

unfortunately for us, the traits system will not be changed back, since they need to synchronize it with gw2 china.

Colin said something for altoholics is in the works, so I’m cautiously optimistic. I play a bit less than I used to, but not significantly less. After all, the guild is still pretty busy for a good portion of the day.

Vayne.8563:

Colin said something for altoholics is in the works, so I’m cautiously optimistic. I play a bit less than I used to, but not significantly less. After all, the guild is still pretty busy for a good portion of the day.

Maybe just more crap like the ineffable (?) stuff that you could craft for totally
overprized amounts of money, and that even take masses of bankspace ..

I also really hate the new trait system .. all the alts i leveled after that are in the end
nur carbon copies of my other character of the same profession, where i just copied
the most used build from them and bought those traits.

But since we still haven’t got any comment about all the complaints after 7-8 months
i don’t see that they ever will change it back.

My problem with PvE is simple, there’s none.

Sorry if it sounds weird to someone, but I don’t consider this skip/glitch/stackfest to deserve to be named PvE. It’s more like PvGame – without any rules.

For those which are about to force me their opinion about making my own groups etc., this is irrelevant to me. The result of succesful run is based on those who can do it the fastest way (rewards mainly), so there’s no motivation to do it “regularly” at all.

Just my 2c

well, it is rather human, isn´t it? Of cause people always want more of things they enjoy, thing is, you rarely have the opportunity to post in your friendly neighbourhood grocery store´s forum. The gaming industry offers this opportunity, so, I guess it is natural forums are flooded with these requests/complaints.

Like everything else, people’s needs will never be fulfilled. It’s human nature. If we got everything we want, we would eventually get bored. There’s nothing wrong with complaints from the players because it just shows they love the game so much that they desire improvement. What I have no tolerance for are those who cynically whine about what they were given saying that it’s not what they asked for.

My problem lies with fixing the Personal Story because that element of the game is what got me to buying this in the first place and I’ll be kitten ed to see that tarnished. If they wanted to modify it, it’s fine so long as they just do it right.

Welcome to the modern world of short attention spans and spoon fed entertainment.

Players are demanding. Not just those that play pve. Check out the wvw and pvp players once in a while. They are just as demanding.

As for satisfaction… can only please some of the people part of the time. Just how it is.

In the end everything is wrong for a portion of the players.

When leveling took longer in MMOs years ago everyone was complaining about the grind.

Then leveling got faster and faster and now everyone already complains after a few weeks about the missing endgame.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

hello everyone!

today debate topic is:

“PvE players are demanding and impossible to satisfy”

i think this is true, just look at the PvE forums!

every day, there will always be various players complaining about lack of PvE content, keeps on asking for more content, and when free new content is delivered, they quickly gobble it up, complains again, and then continues to ask for more!

they are not being appreciative of what we have, and keeps on asking for more.

personally, i think ANet is burning out their precious employees by attempting to satisfy the PvE mob that can never be satisfied.

their precious human resources ought to be better spent else where, not just on the PvE mob.

so what do you think?

Release a full expansion and you will satisfy a HUGE percentage of the player base.

But you can never satisfy 100% of consumers.

There is without a doubt most focus on PVE. But if the focus was mostly on PVP/WVW those groups of people would complain at least as much.

Doesn’t make any sense to think that a certain group of people in the game is more demanding than the others.

Prophet.6257:

Release a full expansion and you will satisfy a HUGE percentage of the player base.

But you can never satisfy 100% of consumers.

For how long ? I bet some of the content locusts will consume it in maybe 2 weeks
and then start again to cry about missing “endgame” ^^

Prophet.6257:

Release a full expansion and you will satisfy a HUGE percentage of the player base.

For two weeks. =P
A month, tops, if they ever release an actual expansion. The content locusts will never be happy.

I think what would help is a dynamically created dungeon with scaling difficulty. No attempt at story, like Fractals, just an old-fashioned dungeon crawl with enemies that have varying abilities.
Of course, even that would only last for as long as it would be rewarding.

How it normally goes

Player “We demand new content NOW!”
Anet “Look we added new content.”
Player “Should have already been in the game, doesn’t count. We demand NEW content”
Anet “We just thought of it last month.”
Player “Doesn’t count, should have been in the game 2 years ago.”
Anet"……….."

As with everything it will only hold players attention as long as it is entertaining. GW2 offered a good year of replayability before too many people started complaining about no new content. GW1 had similar results and as they started to release the expansions players were satisfied. It also gave players hope knowing that in the near future a new chunk of Tyria would become available.

Without a doubt though it would be met with more positivity than the current model. Not saying LW doesn’t have its place in GW2 just not as the main engine for content.

Only thing I have against LS is it’s always to short. Take the last one. Had it done in an hour.

New map nope, just a new part of the last one where you die in a second…….. No joke.

Hopefully LS Season 3 can be a once a month thing to make the updates bigger.

Prophet.6257:

As with everything it will only hold players attention as long as it is entertaining. GW2 offered a good year of replayability before too many people started complaining about no new content. GW1 had similar results and as they started to release the expansions players were satisfied. It also gave players hope knowing that in the near future a new chunk of Tyria would become available.

Without a doubt though it would be met with more positivity than the current model. Not saying LW doesn’t have its place in GW2 just not as the main engine for content.

Certainly a reasonable assessment. Even with WoW, they learned very early not to give their entire expansion in one go. (lol Burning Crusade) Instead, they eke it out in various patches over 18 or so, roughly 3 or 4 major content patches.
It’s a reasonable parallel to the way Living Story has been released, and I think that’s a good thing.
As a it is, Season 2 has given us Dry Top and Silverwastes, which isn’t bad. Comparatively, the 2-year wait for Warlords gave WoW 6-7 new zones, and a few of them don’t feel optimally used. Dynamic events give GW2 more density in each zone, so I can see that working.
For GW2, a new zone every four or five months could put the game on par with expansion-based games.

If anything, my complaints are more on the subpar writing and having to endure it to get the challenge achievements. :\

But, otherwise …did I just compliment GW2? I do believe I did.

Your arguments about ‘content locusts’ blazing through a new expansion in two weeks as a reason not to release an expansion at all really sounds so incredibly stupid and irrelevant to me…

Why would the play style of that small group of players be of any influence to whether they should release an expansion or not?
It doesn’t represent how the vast majority of the current players play this game in any way whatsoever.

Of course there will be players that will rush through said expansion in a matter of days/weeks and be done with it. They will always be there, and they always have been.

I’m sure that there were players who completed the story of Factions or Nightfall in a couple of weeks, or even days, back in the days of GW1.
So because of that, would you rather not have wanted those expansions at all?

I strongly believe that if they would bring out an expansion with a similar range of new content as what Factions and Nightfall brought to GW1, that this content would be played, alongside the original content, by the vast majority of the current players for the rest of the game’s lifespan.
Not to mention the amount of players that would return to the game because of it.

Honestly though, and maybe it’s me, maybe I’m missing something, I don’t know, but the fact that you would even come up with arguments like that truly baffles me.

It’s been 2 years, we really need more than 3 TINY maps and fractals [talking about pve].

Scrivs, problem is, you are wrong. The minority of people who are rushing through content is actually the majority of player base. This is the main problem of GW2.
I think here it couples well with the point what Deimos makes.

You cannot satisfy the players. They need to satisfy themselves. There is ENOUGH content out there. But the Gold Farming players do nothing than CoF runs or looking for new exploits and best ways for Gold/Minute contents.

As long as this mindset is existing and dominating the player base in GW2 ( And believe me it is) Anet cannot satisfy the majority.

For an example, One can make a character of every class/race and play though the Story again. This is enough content to play thorugh for years. But nobody does it. Why? Its not “worth” it. Gold/Minute doesnt sum up. Anet cannot solve this idiotic behaviour.

The last update was a joke, it was done it 15 minutes, and now what are we left with…a kittening pac-man game. Silverwaste was a good one, Dry Top is boring. Learn from these mistakes and stop releasing BS updates.

Revilrad.1962:

For an example, One can make a character of every class/race and play though the Story again. This is enough content to play thorugh for years. But nobody does it. Why? Its not “worth” it. Gold/Minute doesnt sum up. Anet cannot solve this idiotic behaviour.

Um.. what? Sorry, i would like to play mmo, not single player game.

Shen Slayer.3058:

The last update was a joke, it was done it 15 minutes, and now what are we left with…a kittening pac-man game. Silverwaste was a good one, Dry Top is boring. Learn from these mistakes and stop releasing BS updates.

More like 40 minutes for the average player on their first try. It’s about the same length as the previous update. Of course, I’m pretty sure they could’ve just added lore books, eye candy, and GW1 nostalgia and everyone would praise this release too.

Revilrad,

You haven’t changed my opinion on the matter, but I do admit that those are good points you made.

Maybe I just remember those days of GW1 all too well.
I, too, got bored with the content of Prophecies after some time even though I hadn’t fully explored all of it yet, like FoW and UW for example. But Factions, and after that Nightfall, both revamped my interest and enthusiasm for the game in such a great way that it made me want to keep playing for many more years.

I think there has been an upswing in the number of complaints from PvE players because other MMO’s have recently launched very large content updates and expansions that dwarf what we have seen in GW2. Obviously Anet can not fully keep up, but currently a small update every 2-3 months is not very sustaining, which is why the expansion model has been used in other MMO’s.

The idea was supposed to be small updates to keep players interested until the bulk of your devs finished the expansion which introduced a huge amount of content… Anet somewhere decided that players would be happy with ONLY the small content updates… and well the response hasn’t been very positive from what i’ve seen.

story = singleplayer, open world pve = zerg, wvw = zerg, eotm = zerg, dungeon 5 man or some singleplayer. PvP = Beyond repetitive. An expansion would really bring back a lot of people that have quit the game. I just hope they break their own mold with all the open world zerg fest stuff and make it more like they did with the breach or marionette where the map was divided and all have to fight separately to achieve the goal.

Personally i was quite happy with LS1 .. it gave me something new to do every 2 weeks and when i got bored of that part it mostly took not to long for the next update.

However after the end of LS1 we got a total of 6 new LS parts .. and in the end i played maybe in the new zones as much as i did in Battle of Lionarch at that time.

I honestly can’t speak to the new labyrinth they have in the LS as i was in there for a hot second and got one shot before i could even figure out what was going on and haven’t been back since. I do know that the stuff going on IN the main map has been pretty good for vet players as both a farm and over all non-stop activity with decent rewards for the time put into it.

That being said, as someone who was playing WvW fairly regularly until life and a server implosion occurred and as an alt-aholic, the trait changes have royally hurt my desire to play the game at all. For me its a major game changer, and while i am somewhat hopeful along with Vayne, I cannot say I am AS hopeful. i just don’t trust what Anet says with regard to that particular issue and to that end it completely sullies everything else they do. Also, although I know the LS is supposed to be bite sized chunks, these last two felt more like mere morsels and were completed way too fast. They would have been better served merging the 2 as one update.

Just also wanted to point out that the reason so many people have been begging for a “real expansion” is because in the same amount of time GW1 was out they delivered 2 additional campaigns. The LS content doesn’t come close to that.

Xiem.4719:

Revilrad.1962:

For an example, One can make a character of every class/race and play though the Story again. This is enough content to play thorugh for years. But nobody does it. Why? Its not “worth” it. Gold/Minute doesnt sum up. Anet cannot solve this idiotic behaviour.

Um.. what? Sorry, i would like to play mmo, not single player game.

And yet you are probably the ones who just LFG for members who has over 5k AP and are zerkers to burn through content. If you want to play an MMO, please go make a guild. Help new players. Coordinate Teq and Wurm runs. Too boring? Sorry thats what being a community means.

Playing the story for each class/race would not take “years” even if you play for 30 minutes a day.

Revilrad.1962:

You cannot satisfy the players. They need to satisfy themselves. There is ENOUGH content out there. But the Gold Farming players do nothing than CoF runs or looking for new exploits and best ways for Gold/Minute contents.

You do know they nerfed the CoF runs a LONG time ago right? Do you even play this game anymore?

But playing mixed does. What about you play your new Charr Necro and go through PS a little, maybe explore Ascalon to 100 %. Actually follow a Map Meta Event which does not end with a Boss. Go thorugh all the events and speak to NPCs? Get some Story? What about you level your weaponsmith to 500 without looking up to a levelling table from dulfy? Maybe with only harvested materials without using TP? What about you finish all the story dungeons and all the paths? What about you level some in Fractals and do some PvP /WvW?
Now change to your other character and do the same ? Except different class so it fells like a new game?

Can you get my point or are you going to whine? There IS enough content there go and play if you like.

Revilrad.1962:

Xiem.4719:

Revilrad.1962:

For an example, One can make a character of every class/race and play though the Story again. This is enough content to play thorugh for years. But nobody does it. Why? Its not “worth” it. Gold/Minute doesnt sum up. Anet cannot solve this idiotic behaviour.

Um.. what? Sorry, i would like to play mmo, not single player game.

And yet you are probably the ones who just LFG for members who has over 5k AP and are zerkers to burn through content. If you want to play an MMO, please go make a guild. Help new players. Coordinate Teq and Wurm runs. Too boring? Sorry thats what being a community means.

No, i’m not one of “them” mr.white knight. So helping new players and doing 2 events over and over is mmo for you?

Xiem.4719:

Revilrad.1962:

Xiem.4719:

Revilrad.1962:

For an example, One can make a character of every class/race and play though the Story again. This is enough content to play thorugh for years. But nobody does it. Why? Its not “worth” it. Gold/Minute doesnt sum up. Anet cannot solve this idiotic behaviour.

Um.. what? Sorry, i would like to play mmo, not single player game.

And yet you are probably the ones who just LFG for members who has over 5k AP and are zerkers to burn through content. If you want to play an MMO, please go make a guild. Help new players. Coordinate Teq and Wurm runs. Too boring? Sorry thats what being a community means.

No, i’m not one of “them” mr.white knight. So helping new players and doing 2 events over and over is mmo for you?

Well OK. For the sake of a normal conv. Tell me what is your proposal of making GW2 to your appealing?

This argument is beyond stupid lol. Revilrad you just suppose we completely disregard the TP or any other aspect of the game to enjoy GW2 to its fullest? lol.

Yes. I’m demanding too much – Fractal bug and drop fixes.

Maybe if they put some love into the game and not just focus on one single thing people would be more happy :P

How about new maps, but like the old ones, with tasks, reward for 100%, etc.
Few new dungeons, with set of weapons and armors. More jumping puzzles, more events like Teq/wurm.
New skills+weapons for existing class.
There is a lot content in this game, true. But 2 years is more than enough to finish all of it.
Playing something again, with a different race/class combo isn’t solution.

What i really want is more GW2.

Rauderi.8706:

Prophet.6257:

Release a full expansion and you will satisfy a HUGE percentage of the player base.

For two weeks. =P
A month, tops, if they ever release an actual expansion. The content locusts will never be happy.

^^ This ^^

There were players complaining about nothing to do inside a month from the launch of GW2. The only way a new area would be as extensive as the original game would be if they opened up all of Elona. Cantha was quite small by comparison with the continent GW2 is set on.

NNYinsanenature.5684:

This argument is beyond stupid lol. Revilrad you just suppose we completely disregard the TP or any other aspect of the game to enjoy GW2 to its fullest? lol.

Absolutely not, that was only an idea how you can set your own goals to add some excitement to your play style you apparently lost.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Rauderi.8706:

Prophet.6257:

Release a full expansion and you will satisfy a HUGE percentage of the player base.

For two weeks. =P
A month, tops, if they ever release an actual expansion. The content locusts will never be happy.

^^ This ^^

There were players complaining about nothing to do inside a month from the launch of GW2. The only way a new area would be as extensive as the original game would be if they opened up all of Elona. Cantha was quite small by comparison with the continent GW2 is set on.

=P I’m trying not to be totally negative about it, at least.

A lot of what people want for content is either story (takes a while to produce) or a sense of progression in their gameplay. Depending on how it’s done, it can feel like an unrewarding grind, which is where GW2 seems to put itself too often.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Rauderi.8706:

Prophet.6257:

Release a full expansion and you will satisfy a HUGE percentage of the player base.

For two weeks. =P
A month, tops, if they ever release an actual expansion. The content locusts will never be happy.

^^ This ^^

There were players complaining about nothing to do inside a month from the launch of GW2. The only way a new area would be as extensive as the original game would be if they opened up all of Elona. Cantha was quite small by comparison with the continent GW2 is set on.

Exactly, as I said before, people need to satisfy themselves. You cant just release fast enough. People burn through content not the way its meant to be played. They skip all the Story, run thorugh everything rush to end and then complain.

Adding more Areas wont change that. What this people crave for is the old hard to get items and old D&D stlye levelling curve.

Guild Wars was always about freedom from classical MMO Problems like, endless vertical progression, Holy Trinity, ever growing endless, collections and not achievable achievements.

If you cant enjoy the GW2 as it is now, you will never enjoy it. Even after 3 expansions.
If you look for ANET to set you a hard getting goal so you have a reason to play the game, I suggest you to play something else.

I’m probably one of those considered demanding since I make proposals for new changes or additions more than I post about current content. I try not to sound demanding and most of the time when I post ideas, I don’t expect it to be added.

And since I don’t really demand, the devs could simply not add the stuff I want. I can just not play if I don’t like what they do add.