Guild Wars 2

Krestfallen.8025:

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Finally, factor in the that the game is currently designed around bursts of massive spike damage (that don’t give two kittens about how much Toughness you have), while most Healing Traits and Utilities (barring the #6 Healing Skills) are based around gradual regeneration (which more often than not is woefully ineffective at keeping up with an enemy’s attack rotations).

This makes it easy to see how we end up in a situation where player’s who build for damage can easily Support as well as anyone who builds for Support, but player’s who build for Support cannot hope to keep up with those who build for damage, and it’s obvious why the meta is shaped the way it is.

Interesting write-up. Curious to see the counter argument if there happens to be one (although there’s really no need as this was mainly just amassing facts). As far as the implications of what you mention, I agree with the conclusion but disagree.

You point out the fact that the game focuses a lot on enemies doing spikes (PvE) and special skills and timing/placement and all that jazz. This is true and (for bosses at least) I think it should mostly stay that way. Regarding the defense and offense builds level of gathered effect, I do think that is a problem. It probably IS waaaay too easy to build up a high amount of damage modifiers with little more than some equipment and a couple traits…if we were attempting to balance this, you could go one of two ways:

1. Reduce that, making you rely more on gearing in berzerker/assassin’s gear to up your damage.

2. Or increase the levels of defensive attributes one can obtain to be more on equal level to offense.

The 1st is just an outright nerf and would lead to slowing everything down (don’t have a huge problem with that myself) but nobody likes a nerf. The other, however, leads to…well, boring fights. Basically, if I could amass -80% reduction of damage and I could somehow manage to live through boss attacks with relative grace, then it just becomes a game of whacking the boss until it’s dead.

No, if I were actually forming a solution, perhaps a blend of both solutions plus a bit more of an examination of the active combat as well…

Thaddeus.4891:

No. Because Altair made a mistake. He say : ‘’non-dps build offers the same support and control as a dps build does’’ and that’s not true.

The reality is that non-dps ’’GEAR’’ offers the same support and control as a dps ’’GEAR’’ does.

I wants a dps only build on my guardian? I’ll go 6/6/2/0/0 with GS + Sw/Torch with Signet of bane, Smite Condition and Sword of Justice.

If I want a support build on my guardian? I’ll go 3/5/0/4/2 with Hammer + Mace/Focus with Wall of Reflect, Purging Flames and Retreat.

See the difference. Same gear, but not the same build. And btw, nobody is using a full dps build on a guardian, most ppl are using support build.

Curious. Not experienced with guardian myself, but how effective would the 1st build be using Nomad’s gear?

If I had to wager, I bet it wouldn’t deal as much damage or provide as much utility or be as survivable. This, I find, is a flaw. Not something that requires the game to be changed, mind you, but I just don’t think it’s right and the game could have been much more interesting if these builds were somehow even.

xKole.9175:

So, I like to run dungeons, I just started doing Fractals, and I occasionally do some World Boss Farming. I’m a PvE player and these seem to be the best ways to get loot and have some fun group challenging content.

However… DPS, DPS, DPS. I get not having the holy trinity (feels like I’m swearing by saying “holy trinity” here) but seriously, everyone is just DPS, that’s it. It feels like there is zero versatility in PvE that can be taken seriously. Yes, you CAN do support builds, and yup, “control” builds too, I just wish that other builds besides “ZERKER ONLY” could be as rewarding as DPS. When I say rewarding I also mean having equal and/or reliable impact.

I can’t even blame all LFG descriptions saying “zerker only” because that is IN FACT the best and fastest way to get through a dungeon and get your reward.

I was just curious about the community’s opinion on this. Thanks

first, zerker is not a build, just a set of stats.

second, zerker’s efficiency is given taking into account that anything fractal beyond 40 oneshots you no matter what stat set you run. I honestly think this encourages more play than a tank sitting idling in the face of a boss.

and third, besides damage each class contributes something specia. Buffs, protection, aegis, reflects, invisibility, stability, and so on. Playing a guardian is not nearly similar as playing an elementalist.

Yes, with all of them you have to do damage, but so what? i used to play wow and the most fun class for me was the priest that needed to dps in order to get his healing rotation going (don’t remember the build’s name now). Doing just one thing is boring.

First off, Leo G, you’re a breath of fresh air. Someone who actually reads what I write and processes it, rather than immediately jumping to conclusions about what I do or don’t want to do to the game? Is this, like, an early April Fool’s joke or something? xD

As for the rest of this thread… yeah, this is pretty much what I expected when I saw this thread pop up this morning.
/sigh.

I’ll exit this conversation by stating that I did not suggest any alterations to the game in any way shape or form. I merely made some observations and then posed a question. A rhetorical question mind you, the entire point of which is to get people to… you know, think.

But please, by all means continue to jump to conclusions, make assumptions, and generally take “being obtuse,” to olympian levels of artistry.

I on the other hand will depart and go play one of the 8 different fully ascended Berzerker equipped proffessions that I’ve spent the past nine hundred and forty eight days playing (so much for the “people who complain about diversity are only the people who don’t play meta builds” theory, huh?)

Hurray…..

April Fools has made this thread die I’m sure. However I thought of something earlier today to help see things from a different perspective. What if all the enemies hit so hard, and much quicker that EVERYONE should have pure toughness/healing power on their armor. Now, in this case let’s say that a group COULD use zerker gear, however they died more often and the general dungeon run would take longer because they were constantly spread out and dodging everywhere and trying to get resurrections off. The concept is the same, but reversed. I feel like if it was this way, everyone might be singing a different tune EXCEPT the players who enjoyed playing more tanky and supportive roles. Also this way would include your support skills as does the DPS builds/gear of course. Maybe it doesn’t sound as fun this way to some people because the BEST way to do dungeons/fractals is having pure tanky gear and the thieves and elems can’t do the DPS they want because they don;t want to get one shot by almost every hit.

Just some food for thought I guess.

Krestfallen.8025:

First off, Leo G, you’re a breath of fresh air. Someone who actually reads what I write and processes it, rather than immediately jumping to conclusions about what I do or don’t want to do to the game? Is this, like, an early April Fool’s joke or something? xD

As for the rest of this thread… yeah, this is pretty much what I expected when I saw this thread pop up this morning.
/sigh.

I’ll exit this conversation by stating that I did not suggest any alterations to the game in any way shape or form. I merely made some observations and then posed a question. A rhetorical question mind you, the entire point of which is to get people to… you know, think.

But please, by all means continue to jump to conclusions, make assumptions, and generally take “being obtuse,” to olympian levels of artistry.

I on the other hand will depart and go play one of the 8 different fully ascended Berzerker equipped proffessions that I’ve spent the past nine hundred and forty eight days playing (so much for the “people who complain about diversity are only the people who don’t play meta builds” theory, huh?)

Hurray…..

This. Leo G, I appreciate your well thought post more than you know! Haha

Also, Krestfallen, same goes to you. These were the replies I was most hoping for; ideas, thoughts, and well said general input.

This most likely will be my last post as well, but I will say that it kind of leaves me bewildered that all the people who said I can do everything in my zerker gear believe that that is not a design flaw. Just makes me curious what the purpose is (and what I hope will be) of the gear stats that are used by less than 2% of the games population.

xKole.9175:

April Fools has made this thread die I’m sure. However I thought of something earlier today to help see things from a different perspective. What if all the enemies hit so hard, and much quicker that EVERYONE should have pure toughness/healing power on their armor. Now, in this case let’s say that a group COULD use zerker gear, however they died more often and the general dungeon run would take longer because they were constantly spread out and dodging everywhere and trying to get resurrections off. The concept is the same, but reversed. I feel like if it was this way, everyone might be singing a different tune EXCEPT the players who enjoyed playing more tanky and supportive roles. Also this way would include your support skills as does the DPS builds/gear of course. Maybe it doesn’t sound as fun this way to some people because the BEST way to do dungeons/fractals is having pure tanky gear and the thieves and elems can’t do the DPS they want because they don;t want to get one shot by almost every hit.

Just some food for thought I guess.

The thing is, dungeons were that way at one point. It’s just that people learned the dungeons and the mob moves, and a lot of parties run past the trash groups, which in many cases are more dangerous than bosses.

Gearing for damage is inherently superior to gearing for defense in every MMO I’ve ever seen, except for those that require tanks and/or healers for most group content, and then gearing for heals/survival is only better for those two roles, and only because the game requires those roles. Ask anyone who leveled a tank or healer (prior to dual spec) will tell you that leveling in that gear/spec was a pita. I’ve yet to see a game where the speed-of-killing advantage was given to survival gear over damage gear. It does not make sense.

I personally liked the idea of stats adding benefits to boons or other skill effects. I don’t much care for the idea for boon duration on gear as even if it was something that was a viable option for supports you have all of these other gear sets still seeing no use.

I was thinking what if healing power had a complete rework to modify outgoing healing. This way the balance of self sustain can be maintained by the base value while the numbers you output is based on the stat? Just a suggestion. I feel like it would hurt those whom use the stat for self sustain to much.

Perhaps protection giving those whom you apply it to a portion of your armor? Skills in which you can give allies a portion of your health pool as a shield.

Fighting bots is for furballs.