Guild Wars 2

So, I like to run dungeons, I just started doing Fractals, and I occasionally do some World Boss Farming. I’m a PvE player and these seem to be the best ways to get loot and have some fun group challenging content.

However… DPS, DPS, DPS. I get not having the holy trinity (feels like I’m swearing by saying “holy trinity” here) but seriously, everyone is just DPS, that’s it. It feels like there is zero versatility in PvE that can be taken seriously. Yes, you CAN do support builds, and yup, “control” builds too, I just wish that other builds besides “ZERKER ONLY” could be as rewarding as DPS. When I say rewarding I also mean having equal and/or reliable impact.

I can’t even blame all LFG descriptions saying “zerker only” because that is IN FACT the best and fastest way to get through a dungeon and get your reward.

I was just curious about the community’s opinion on this. Thanks

I think the problem came from the lack of trinity. Everyone is practically self-sufficient. Support and control are not really a necessity but DPS is.

Well put, with everyone being self-sufficient I don’t ever feel like anyone relies on anyone for anything except “hit that thing.”

xKole.9175:

Well put, with everyone being self-sufficient I don’t ever feel like anyone relies on anyone for anything except “hit that thing.”

your groups arent using:

Reflection
Blind
Protection
Cleanse
Might
Fury
Etc?

Playing Thief im a taxi.
On Guard im a buff machine.
Ele is arms dealer.
And my Necro is forced to only care about himself Q.Q

Overall there is way more to it then just DPS even if everyone is wearing zerker gear.

Ashen.2907:

xKole.9175:

Well put, with everyone being self-sufficient I don’t ever feel like anyone relies on anyone for anything except “hit that thing.”

your groups arent using:

Reflection
Blind
Protection
Cleanse
Might
Fury
Etc?

Of course, but that doesn’t change the fact that EVERYONE ONLY specializes in damage. That doesn’t add versatility in my opinion. It’s just (necessary) filler between DAMAGES. lol

I don’t think you understand what you are asking for. At least not fully. You complain that there is lack of diversity (zerker – an armor stat), and yet want control builds. What armor stat in this game boosts control builds? There isn’t one. Control builds come from your traits and weapons, not your armor stat. The meta for mesmer is assassins/zerker gear, but a lot of the times the traits aren’t set up for full DPS. The reflect line is often used to boost their support/control (I’m unsure whether to consider more reflects support or control – though I’d more consider it control by stopping the enemy). The same thing goes for meta guardian in fotm. A lot of times hammer is ran for it’s autoattack protection symbol. Phalanx build on warrior is ran to boost team at the sacrifice of itself. Thief will run offhand pistol for blind fields instead of dagger, which has higher DPS and shortbow for blast fields. You can very much be a control oriented class, while still using zerker gear. That’s something this community has yet to grasp. As for support, in terms of direct healing, yes, there isn’t much use of either traiting or gear speccing for it.

xKole.9175:

Ashen.2907:

xKole.9175:

Well put, with everyone being self-sufficient I don’t ever feel like anyone relies on anyone for anything except “hit that thing.”

your groups arent using:

Reflection
Blind
Protection
Cleanse
Might
Fury
Etc?

Of course, but that doesn’t change the fact that EVERYONE ONLY specializes in damage. That doesn’t add versatility in my opinion. It’s just (necessary) filler between DAMAGES. lol

Then they are things that you rely on eachother for beyond just hit that thing.

The group is comprised of healer, buffer, debuffer, protector, CCer, and DPSer. Its just that each character is providing some of several (or of each).

Well, weapons and equipments are part of the build, as is traits and utilities. Just misunderstood semantics I suppose. It begs the question tho, why do we so many stat distribution when 90% of the players only use the top 3 (very rough estimates).

Sorin.4310:

I don’t think you understand what you are asking for. At least not fully. You complain that there is lack of diversity (zerker – an armor stat), and yet want control builds. What armor stat in this game boosts control builds? There isn’t one. Control builds come from your traits and weapons, not your armor stat. The meta for mesmer is assassins/zerker gear, but a lot of the times the traits aren’t set up for full DPS. The reflect line is often used to boost their support/control (I’m unsure whether to consider more reflects support or control – though I’d more consider it control by stopping the enemy). The same thing goes for meta guardian in fotm. A lot of times hammer is ran for it’s autoattack protection symbol. Phalanx build on warrior is ran to boost team at the sacrifice of itself. Thief will run offhand pistol for blind fields instead of dagger, which has higher DPS and shortbow for blast fields. You can very much be a control oriented class, while still using zerker gear. That’s something this community has yet to grasp. As for support, in terms of direct healing, yes, there isn’t much use of either traiting or gear speccing for it.

I think you’re right about me not fully understanding as I just got back into the game, haha. But, in dungeons, who WANTS a Mesmer? lol I’m not saying it’s not viable, what I’m saying is that it’s not wanted, OR as effective as Warriors, Elems, Guards, or Thiefs. As for the weapon builds, I again agree with you on the support of using the blind fields with your pistol as a Thief for example, but again that’s just necessary filler between DPS. There is no other SPECIALIZATION as effective as damage. Not “specialization” as in traits, I mean as a character as a whole.

Being self sufficient is awesome. No more hours of waiting on that tank that will kitten up the fight for another hour straight. Not to mention how much passive play this is compared to the fast paced combat of gw2.

cranos.5913:

Being self sufficient is awesome. No more hours of waiting on that tank that will kitten up the fight for another hour straight. Not to mention how much passive play this is compared to the fast paced combat of gw2.

I guess as simply put as I can, I never feel like I have to try or think in a dungeon. I just hit enemies, then hit my support/control abilities depending on the enemy. “Oh a melee enemy! Auto, auto, blind, auto, blind, auto.” lol

Also, yes… To an extent being self sufficient is awesome :P

xKole.9175:

I think you’re right about me not fully understanding as I just got back into the game, haha. But, in dungeons, who WANTS a Mesmer? lol I’m not saying it’s not viable, what I’m saying is that it’s not wanted, OR as effective as Warriors, Elems, Guards, or Thiefs. As for the weapon builds, I again agree with you on the support of using the blind fields with your pistol as a Thief for example, but again that’s just necessary filler between DPS. There is no other SPECIALIZATION as effective as damage. Not “specialization” as in traits, I mean as a character as a whole.

There isn’t a specialization as effective as damage, but I’m not sure there can be. Without the original trinity, most of the focus has to be DPS. How could a control build compete with DPS? And I don’t mean within the possible control in the game. I mean how could you change control to be as effective as DPS? You’d have to both redesign classes to be able to fully be dedicated to control, and also have encounters require that control. But that moves in the direction of required builds. And despite what some people will say on these forums, zerker is not required to play this game. Required to join some groups? Sure. Optimal? Sure. But not actually required. And that’s one of the huge selling points Anet tried to get across. You don’t need healers. You don’t need tanks. You can bring the build you want. It may be extremely suboptimal. But you can get through content with it.

I’m honestly just unsure if you can both set up a game that offers a “play how you want” and also require classes other than DPS to be extremely effective. They seem contradictory. I think what the game needs is a sort of hard mode. Where groups who are willing to fit into more specific roles can have that higher level, required build content. And normal mode can still just be done with whatever. But I honestly don’t see that happening. The attention dungeons have gotten in over a year have been extremely minimal.

Sorin.4310:

xKole.9175:

I think you’re right about me not fully understanding as I just got back into the game, haha. But, in dungeons, who WANTS a Mesmer? lol I’m not saying it’s not viable, what I’m saying is that it’s not wanted, OR as effective as Warriors, Elems, Guards, or Thiefs. As for the weapon builds, I again agree with you on the support of using the blind fields with your pistol as a Thief for example, but again that’s just necessary filler between DPS. There is no other SPECIALIZATION as effective as damage. Not “specialization” as in traits, I mean as a character as a whole.

There isn’t a specialization as effective as damage, but I’m not sure there can be. Without the original trinity, most of the focus has to be DPS. How could a control build compete with DPS? And I don’t mean within the possible control in the game. I mean how could you change control to be as effective as DPS? You’d have to both redesign classes to be able to fully be dedicated to control, and also have encounters require that control. But that moves in the direction of required builds. And despite what some people will say on these forums, zerker is not required to play this game. Required to join some groups? Sure. Optimal? Sure. But not actually required. And that’s one of the huge selling points Anet tried to get across. You don’t need healers. You don’t need tanks. You can bring the build you want. It may be extremely suboptimal. But you can get through content with it.

I’m honestly just unsure if you can both set up a game that offers a “play how you want” and also require classes other than DPS to be extremely effective. They seem contradictory. I think what the game needs is a sort of hard mode. Where groups who are willing to fit into more specific roles can have that higher level, required build content. And normal mode can still just be done with whatever. But I honestly don’t see that happening. The attention dungeons have gotten in over a year have been extremely minimal.

The way to make control build and support builds as effective as DPS is actually pretty simple in my opinion.

For control:
Skale Venom for example, have the duration last longer the more X stat you have. Same with blind, or any conditions. Conditions are a joke (so I hear) so why not have those scaling abilities? (Besides “condition DAMAGE”)

Support:
More/longer stacks of might with X stat, longer stability with X stat, etc.

This way there’s a much greater reason for a Guardian to put points into “Healing power” which would increase the intensity and duration of his boons for example.

I’m not being rude, but it is a pretty simple idea lol :P

xKole.9175:

Ashen.2907:

xKole.9175:

Well put, with everyone being self-sufficient I don’t ever feel like anyone relies on anyone for anything except “hit that thing.”

your groups arent using:

Reflection
Blind
Protection
Cleanse
Might
Fury
Etc?

Of course, but that doesn’t change the fact that EVERYONE ONLY specializes in damage. That doesn’t add versatility in my opinion. It’s just (necessary) filler between DAMAGES. lol

Actually no they are not specializing only in damage. Simply because you don’t understand it doesn’t make it so. All those above mentioned by Ashen (and there are even more) are essential for an optimal run and none are actually dealing damage.

What would NOT add versatility, is having one character control, one character support, and three dps, where exactly is the versatility there? By allowing everyone to fill multiple roles at the same time you have more versatility overall, not less.

The only thing that is missing, and there is slight problem there, is gear stats. The fact that you can control/support equally well in Berserker gear and with any other type of gear. Gear != Build, your skills and traits define your build, a Warrior using Phalanx Strength plays differently to a Warrior using pure Damage spec, yet they both use Berserker Gear. An Elementalist using Staff plays a lot differently to a D/F Elementalist, although, once again, they both use Berserker gear.

But even then, let’s ask ourselves, do we really want to LIMIT roles to specific gear stats? Do you really want to force someone to change their stats in order to Support or Control properly? Wouldn’t that actually LIMIT versatility and build choice instead of increasing it?

xKole.9175:

Sorin.4310:

xKole.9175:

I think you’re right about me not fully understanding as I just got back into the game, haha. But, in dungeons, who WANTS a Mesmer? lol I’m not saying it’s not viable, what I’m saying is that it’s not wanted, OR as effective as Warriors, Elems, Guards, or Thiefs. As for the weapon builds, I again agree with you on the support of using the blind fields with your pistol as a Thief for example, but again that’s just necessary filler between DPS. There is no other SPECIALIZATION as effective as damage. Not “specialization” as in traits, I mean as a character as a whole.

There isn’t a specialization as effective as damage, but I’m not sure there can be. Without the original trinity, most of the focus has to be DPS. How could a control build compete with DPS? And I don’t mean within the possible control in the game. I mean how could you change control to be as effective as DPS? You’d have to both redesign classes to be able to fully be dedicated to control, and also have encounters require that control. But that moves in the direction of required builds. And despite what some people will say on these forums, zerker is not required to play this game. Required to join some groups? Sure. Optimal? Sure. But not actually required. And that’s one of the huge selling points Anet tried to get across. You don’t need healers. You don’t need tanks. You can bring the build you want. It may be extremely suboptimal. But you can get through content with it.

I’m honestly just unsure if you can both set up a game that offers a “play how you want” and also require classes other than DPS to be extremely effective. They seem contradictory. I think what the game needs is a sort of hard mode. Where groups who are willing to fit into more specific roles can have that higher level, required build content. And normal mode can still just be done with whatever. But I honestly don’t see that happening. The attention dungeons have gotten in over a year have been extremely minimal.

The way to make control build and support builds as effective as DPS is actually pretty simple in my opinion.

For control:
Skale Venom for example, have the duration last longer the more X stat you have. Same with blind, or any conditions. Conditions are a joke (so I hear) so why not have those scaling abilities? (Besides “condition DAMAGE”)

Support:
More/longer stacks of might with X stat, longer stability with X stat, etc.

This way there’s a much greater reason for a Guardian to put points into “Healing power” which would increase the intensity and duration of his boons for example.

I’m not being rude, but it is a pretty simple idea lol :P

It’s simple but it’s not (more) balanced. Coordinated groups can already CC bosses a good chunk of the time. To allow them to do it even further would make already fairly easy dungeons an even bigger joke. Boon duration being tied into healing power is an interesting concept. I’m not sure how I feel about it. Though I think with metas being focused around 2 eles + 1 warrior, you’d have to nerf boon duration into the absolute ground to have them not be able to reliably stack might. And at the moment both ideas are unclear to me what all the reaching implications would be out of dungeons, which Anet has a far bigger focus on.

maddoctor.2738:

xKole.9175:

Ashen.2907:

xKole.9175:

Well put, with everyone being self-sufficient I don’t ever feel like anyone relies on anyone for anything except “hit that thing.”

your groups arent using:

Reflection
Blind
Protection
Cleanse
Might
Fury
Etc?

Of course, but that doesn’t change the fact that EVERYONE ONLY specializes in damage. That doesn’t add versatility in my opinion. It’s just (necessary) filler between DAMAGES. lol

Actually no they are not specializing only in damage. Simply because you don’t understand it doesn’t make it so. All those above mentioned by Ashen (and there are even more) are essential for an optimal run and none are actually dealing damage.

What would NOT add versatility, is having one character control, one character support, and three dps, where exactly is the versatility there? By allowing everyone to fill multiple roles at the same time you have more versatility overall, not less.

The only thing that is missing, and there is slight problem there, is gear stats. The fact that you can control/support equally well in Berserker gear and with any other type of gear. Gear != Build, your skills and traits define your build, a Warrior using Phalanx Strength plays differently to a Warrior using pure Damage spec, yet they both use Berserker Gear. An Elementalist using Staff plays a lot differently to a D/F Elementalist, although, once again, they both use Berserker gear.

But even then, let’s ask ourselves, do we really want to LIMIT roles to specific gear stats? Do you really want to force someone to change their stats in order to Support or Control properly? Wouldn’t that actually LIMIT versatility and build choice instead of increasing it?

Like I said, though… They are NECESSARY filler between damage. No one is specializing in these things. They just have them in their builds and use them between dealing damage (at opportune times of course). There is a MASSIVE lack in creativity (versatility) in effective builds because they HAVE to include damage, damage, and some damage. Regardless of the damage you deal, those buffs will come with your build. Why not have these DPS players NOT have access to buffs AS MUCH as players who want to play a support role? Everyone is literally doing the same thing, dealing damage, and throwing down your boons and conditions. Everyone has everything ALL THE TIME. That’s what I mean by specialization. Not one build TRULY stands out like doing DPS, and throwing in your conditions and boons when applicable.

xKole.9175:

So, I like to run dungeons, I just started doing Fractals, and I occasionally do some World Boss Farming. I’m a PvE player and these seem to be the best ways to get loot and have some fun group challenging content.

However… DPS, DPS, DPS. I get not having the holy trinity (feels like I’m swearing by saying “holy trinity” here) but seriously, everyone is just DPS, that’s it. It feels like there is zero versatility in PvE that can be taken seriously. Yes, you CAN do support builds, and yup, “control” builds too, I just wish that other builds besides “ZERKER ONLY” could be as rewarding as DPS. When I say rewarding I also mean having equal and/or reliable impact.

I can’t even blame all LFG descriptions saying “zerker only” because that is IN FACT the best and fastest way to get through a dungeon and get your reward.

I was just curious about the community’s opinion on this. Thanks

Well, when I run dungeons on my hammer guardian, everyone seems to love me as I give constant protection, wall, constant heals, might, and heal myself, along with having knight armor and zerker trinkets so my dps isn’t hit too hard, since I have no dmg increase traits.

haven’t been kicked yet.

xKole.9175:

maddoctor.2738:

xKole.9175:

Ashen.2907:

xKole.9175:

Well put, with everyone being self-sufficient I don’t ever feel like anyone relies on anyone for anything except “hit that thing.”

your groups arent using:

Reflection
Blind
Protection
Cleanse
Might
Fury
Etc?

Of course, but that doesn’t change the fact that EVERYONE ONLY specializes in damage. That doesn’t add versatility in my opinion. It’s just (necessary) filler between DAMAGES. lol

Actually no they are not specializing only in damage. Simply because you don’t understand it doesn’t make it so. All those above mentioned by Ashen (and there are even more) are essential for an optimal run and none are actually dealing damage.

What would NOT add versatility, is having one character control, one character support, and three dps, where exactly is the versatility there? By allowing everyone to fill multiple roles at the same time you have more versatility overall, not less.

The only thing that is missing, and there is slight problem there, is gear stats. The fact that you can control/support equally well in Berserker gear and with any other type of gear. Gear != Build, your skills and traits define your build, a Warrior using Phalanx Strength plays differently to a Warrior using pure Damage spec, yet they both use Berserker Gear. An Elementalist using Staff plays a lot differently to a D/F Elementalist, although, once again, they both use Berserker gear.

But even then, let’s ask ourselves, do we really want to LIMIT roles to specific gear stats? Do you really want to force someone to change their stats in order to Support or Control properly? Wouldn’t that actually LIMIT versatility and build choice instead of increasing it?

Like I said, though… They are NECESSARY filler between damage. No one is specializing in these things. They just have them in their builds and use them between dealing damage (at opportune times of course). There is a MASSIVE lack in creativity (versatility) in effective builds because they HAVE to include damage, damage, and some damage. Regardless of the damage you deal, those buffs will come with your build. Why not have these DPS players NOT have access to buffs AS MUCH as players who want to play a support role? Everyone is literally doing the same thing, dealing damage, and throwing down your boons and conditions. Everyone has everything ALL THE TIME. That’s what I mean by specialization. Not one build TRULY stands out like doing DPS, and throwing in your conditions and boons when applicable.

But that’s exactly why there is versatility and options for players. A player can utilize a variety of skills to help their team and adapt on the fly, you can change your build for free when out of combat, you are not limited to a specific build/role. And now you want to limit players by their gear choice?

Why limit player creativity and versatility by adding arbitaty stat barriers?

Sorin.4310:

xKole.9175:

Sorin.4310:

xKole.9175:

I think you’re right about me not fully understanding as I just got back into the game, haha. But, in dungeons, who WANTS a Mesmer? lol I’m not saying it’s not viable, what I’m saying is that it’s not wanted, OR as effective as Warriors, Elems, Guards, or Thiefs. As for the weapon builds, I again agree with you on the support of using the blind fields with your pistol as a Thief for example, but again that’s just necessary filler between DPS. There is no other SPECIALIZATION as effective as damage. Not “specialization” as in traits, I mean as a character as a whole.

There isn’t a specialization as effective as damage, but I’m not sure there can be. Without the original trinity, most of the focus has to be DPS. How could a control build compete with DPS? And I don’t mean within the possible control in the game. I mean how could you change control to be as effective as DPS? You’d have to both redesign classes to be able to fully be dedicated to control, and also have encounters require that control. But that moves in the direction of required builds. And despite what some people will say on these forums, zerker is not required to play this game. Required to join some groups? Sure. Optimal? Sure. But not actually required. And that’s one of the huge selling points Anet tried to get across. You don’t need healers. You don’t need tanks. You can bring the build you want. It may be extremely suboptimal. But you can get through content with it.

I’m honestly just unsure if you can both set up a game that offers a “play how you want” and also require classes other than DPS to be extremely effective. They seem contradictory. I think what the game needs is a sort of hard mode. Where groups who are willing to fit into more specific roles can have that higher level, required build content. And normal mode can still just be done with whatever. But I honestly don’t see that happening. The attention dungeons have gotten in over a year have been extremely minimal.

The way to make control build and support builds as effective as DPS is actually pretty simple in my opinion.

For control:
Skale Venom for example, have the duration last longer the more X stat you have. Same with blind, or any conditions. Conditions are a joke (so I hear) so why not have those scaling abilities? (Besides “condition DAMAGE”)

Support:
More/longer stacks of might with X stat, longer stability with X stat, etc.

This way there’s a much greater reason for a Guardian to put points into “Healing power” which would increase the intensity and duration of his boons for example.

I’m not being rude, but it is a pretty simple idea lol :P

It’s simple but it’s not (more) balanced. Coordinated groups can already CC bosses a good chunk of the time. To allow them to do it even further would make already fairly easy dungeons an even bigger joke. Boon duration being tied into healing power is an interesting concept. I’m not sure how I feel about it. Though I think with metas being focused around 2 eles + 1 warrior, you’d have to nerf boon duration into the absolute ground to have them not be able to reliably stack might. And at the moment both ideas are unclear to me what all the reaching implications would be out of dungeons, which Anet has a far bigger focus on.

Agreed, however with the scaling of boons and such, the coordinated CC on bosses would be more dependent on the support/control classes. So the DPS players who spec fully into damage all around wouldn’t have any CC worthwhile with extremely weak CC scaling

ex: .2 second stun with 0 spec into X trait/stat.
2 second stun with 200 spec into X trait/stat.

Therefore the support/control roles would FINALLY be WANTED lol

xKole.9175:

Support:
More/longer stacks of might with X stat, longer stability with X stat, etc.

This way there’s a much greater reason for a Guardian to put points into “Healing power” which would increase the intensity and duration of his boons for example.

I’m not being rude, but it is a pretty simple idea lol :P

Hmmm….maybe something like a stat on armor called “boon Duration” could work?

xKole.9175:

Sorin.4310:

xKole.9175:

Sorin.4310:

xKole.9175:

I think you’re right about me not fully understanding as I just got back into the game, haha. But, in dungeons, who WANTS a Mesmer? lol I’m not saying it’s not viable, what I’m saying is that it’s not wanted, OR as effective as Warriors, Elems, Guards, or Thiefs. As for the weapon builds, I again agree with you on the support of using the blind fields with your pistol as a Thief for example, but again that’s just necessary filler between DPS. There is no other SPECIALIZATION as effective as damage. Not “specialization” as in traits, I mean as a character as a whole.

There isn’t a specialization as effective as damage, but I’m not sure there can be. Without the original trinity, most of the focus has to be DPS. How could a control build compete with DPS? And I don’t mean within the possible control in the game. I mean how could you change control to be as effective as DPS? You’d have to both redesign classes to be able to fully be dedicated to control, and also have encounters require that control. But that moves in the direction of required builds. And despite what some people will say on these forums, zerker is not required to play this game. Required to join some groups? Sure. Optimal? Sure. But not actually required. And that’s one of the huge selling points Anet tried to get across. You don’t need healers. You don’t need tanks. You can bring the build you want. It may be extremely suboptimal. But you can get through content with it.

I’m honestly just unsure if you can both set up a game that offers a “play how you want” and also require classes other than DPS to be extremely effective. They seem contradictory. I think what the game needs is a sort of hard mode. Where groups who are willing to fit into more specific roles can have that higher level, required build content. And normal mode can still just be done with whatever. But I honestly don’t see that happening. The attention dungeons have gotten in over a year have been extremely minimal.

The way to make control build and support builds as effective as DPS is actually pretty simple in my opinion.

For control:
Skale Venom for example, have the duration last longer the more X stat you have. Same with blind, or any conditions. Conditions are a joke (so I hear) so why not have those scaling abilities? (Besides “condition DAMAGE”)

Support:
More/longer stacks of might with X stat, longer stability with X stat, etc.

This way there’s a much greater reason for a Guardian to put points into “Healing power” which would increase the intensity and duration of his boons for example.

I’m not being rude, but it is a pretty simple idea lol :P

It’s simple but it’s not (more) balanced. Coordinated groups can already CC bosses a good chunk of the time. To allow them to do it even further would make already fairly easy dungeons an even bigger joke. Boon duration being tied into healing power is an interesting concept. I’m not sure how I feel about it. Though I think with metas being focused around 2 eles + 1 warrior, you’d have to nerf boon duration into the absolute ground to have them not be able to reliably stack might. And at the moment both ideas are unclear to me what all the reaching implications would be out of dungeons, which Anet has a far bigger focus on.

Agreed, however with the scaling of boons and such, the coordinated CC on bosses would be more dependent on the support/control classes. So the DPS players who spec fully into damage all around wouldn’t have any CC worthwhile with extremely weak CC scaling

ex: .2 second stun with 0 spec into X trait/stat.
2 second stun with 200 spec into X trait/stat.

Therefore the support/control roles would FINALLY be WANTED lol

A change like that won’t have the effect you think it will have. If you make everything dependant on stats the only thing you will change is requiring players to have loads and loads of different gear sets to change their builds on the fly as the situation requires.

In this encounter, use Control gear set to provide more CC, in this encounter use DPS gear to do full damage, in this encounter use Support gear to offer more healing and boons. See how terrible this idea is going to be? Instead of allowing players to change their build to adapt to any encounter easily, you want them to have multiple gear sets to do it, ruining their versatility completely.

xKole.9175:

Sorin.4310:

xKole.9175:

Sorin.4310:

xKole.9175:

I think you’re right about me not fully understanding as I just got back into the game, haha. But, in dungeons, who WANTS a Mesmer? lol I’m not saying it’s not viable, what I’m saying is that it’s not wanted, OR as effective as Warriors, Elems, Guards, or Thiefs. As for the weapon builds, I again agree with you on the support of using the blind fields with your pistol as a Thief for example, but again that’s just necessary filler between DPS. There is no other SPECIALIZATION as effective as damage. Not “specialization” as in traits, I mean as a character as a whole.

There isn’t a specialization as effective as damage, but I’m not sure there can be. Without the original trinity, most of the focus has to be DPS. How could a control build compete with DPS? And I don’t mean within the possible control in the game. I mean how could you change control to be as effective as DPS? You’d have to both redesign classes to be able to fully be dedicated to control, and also have encounters require that control. But that moves in the direction of required builds. And despite what some people will say on these forums, zerker is not required to play this game. Required to join some groups? Sure. Optimal? Sure. But not actually required. And that’s one of the huge selling points Anet tried to get across. You don’t need healers. You don’t need tanks. You can bring the build you want. It may be extremely suboptimal. But you can get through content with it.

I’m honestly just unsure if you can both set up a game that offers a “play how you want” and also require classes other than DPS to be extremely effective. They seem contradictory. I think what the game needs is a sort of hard mode. Where groups who are willing to fit into more specific roles can have that higher level, required build content. And normal mode can still just be done with whatever. But I honestly don’t see that happening. The attention dungeons have gotten in over a year have been extremely minimal.

The way to make control build and support builds as effective as DPS is actually pretty simple in my opinion.

For control:
Skale Venom for example, have the duration last longer the more X stat you have. Same with blind, or any conditions. Conditions are a joke (so I hear) so why not have those scaling abilities? (Besides “condition DAMAGE”)

Support:
More/longer stacks of might with X stat, longer stability with X stat, etc.

This way there’s a much greater reason for a Guardian to put points into “Healing power” which would increase the intensity and duration of his boons for example.

I’m not being rude, but it is a pretty simple idea lol :P

It’s simple but it’s not (more) balanced. Coordinated groups can already CC bosses a good chunk of the time. To allow them to do it even further would make already fairly easy dungeons an even bigger joke. Boon duration being tied into healing power is an interesting concept. I’m not sure how I feel about it. Though I think with metas being focused around 2 eles + 1 warrior, you’d have to nerf boon duration into the absolute ground to have them not be able to reliably stack might. And at the moment both ideas are unclear to me what all the reaching implications would be out of dungeons, which Anet has a far bigger focus on.

Agreed, however with the scaling of boons and such, the coordinated CC on bosses would be more dependent on the support/control classes. So the DPS players who spec fully into damage all around wouldn’t have any CC worthwhile with extremely weak CC scaling

ex: .2 second stun with 0 spec into X trait/stat.
2 second stun with 200 spec into X trait/stat.

Therefore the support/control roles would FINALLY be WANTED lol

No, they would be REQUIRED, which isn’t what anet is looking for. They don’t want people sitting in lfg saying “lf Control mesmer gtg” for an hour. [shudder] oh god the BC memories in shattarath just came back…

Certain things require more coordination. You’ll often find that organized guilds will run things quite different rather than DPS-this-and-that. I like to coin the term “one-dimensional thinking” and that’s what I think of the meta of this game. It’s true that it exists for a reason but there are other ways of doing things that can be faster and more efficient. You just have to find the right guild(s) and group(s) that do that.

I should also point out:

haven’t been kicked yet.

I’m glad you are thinking outside of the box a little. I’m one that is disappointed in hearing this phrase used constantly in the “pug community”. If you’re not running X, you’re instantly labelled as “crap” and get booted. It’s unfortunate that it is so and without derailing this topic, I think it’s about time something be done about this.

To the OP, versatility is awesome… when you find the people willing to do so!
:)

It literally sounds like most players want to do EVERYTHING, AT ALL TIMES, with ANYTHING. What is the purpose of classes in this game? lol Such little diversity in the BIG picture….

weskay.9217:

Certain things require more coordination. You’ll often find that organized guilds will run things quite different rather than DPS-this-and-that. I like to coin the term “one-dimensional thinking” and that’s what I think of the meta of this game. It’s true that it exists for a reason but there are other ways of doing things that can be faster and more efficient. You just have to find the right guild(s) and group(s) that do that.

Well said. I would love to find a guild like this, though. Also, thanks weskay!

Serophous.9085:

xKole.9175:

Sorin.4310:

xKole.9175:

Sorin.4310:

xKole.9175:

I think you’re right about me not fully understanding as I just got back into the game, haha. But, in dungeons, who WANTS a Mesmer? lol I’m not saying it’s not viable, what I’m saying is that it’s not wanted, OR as effective as Warriors, Elems, Guards, or Thiefs. As for the weapon builds, I again agree with you on the support of using the blind fields with your pistol as a Thief for example, but again that’s just necessary filler between DPS. There is no other SPECIALIZATION as effective as damage. Not “specialization” as in traits, I mean as a character as a whole.

There isn’t a specialization as effective as damage, but I’m not sure there can be. Without the original trinity, most of the focus has to be DPS. How could a control build compete with DPS? And I don’t mean within the possible control in the game. I mean how could you change control to be as effective as DPS? You’d have to both redesign classes to be able to fully be dedicated to control, and also have encounters require that control. But that moves in the direction of required builds. And despite what some people will say on these forums, zerker is not required to play this game. Required to join some groups? Sure. Optimal? Sure. But not actually required. And that’s one of the huge selling points Anet tried to get across. You don’t need healers. You don’t need tanks. You can bring the build you want. It may be extremely suboptimal. But you can get through content with it.

I’m honestly just unsure if you can both set up a game that offers a “play how you want” and also require classes other than DPS to be extremely effective. They seem contradictory. I think what the game needs is a sort of hard mode. Where groups who are willing to fit into more specific roles can have that higher level, required build content. And normal mode can still just be done with whatever. But I honestly don’t see that happening. The attention dungeons have gotten in over a year have been extremely minimal.

The way to make control build and support builds as effective as DPS is actually pretty simple in my opinion.

For control:
Skale Venom for example, have the duration last longer the more X stat you have. Same with blind, or any conditions. Conditions are a joke (so I hear) so why not have those scaling abilities? (Besides “condition DAMAGE”)

Support:
More/longer stacks of might with X stat, longer stability with X stat, etc.

This way there’s a much greater reason for a Guardian to put points into “Healing power” which would increase the intensity and duration of his boons for example.

I’m not being rude, but it is a pretty simple idea lol :P

It’s simple but it’s not (more) balanced. Coordinated groups can already CC bosses a good chunk of the time. To allow them to do it even further would make already fairly easy dungeons an even bigger joke. Boon duration being tied into healing power is an interesting concept. I’m not sure how I feel about it. Though I think with metas being focused around 2 eles + 1 warrior, you’d have to nerf boon duration into the absolute ground to have them not be able to reliably stack might. And at the moment both ideas are unclear to me what all the reaching implications would be out of dungeons, which Anet has a far bigger focus on.

Agreed, however with the scaling of boons and such, the coordinated CC on bosses would be more dependent on the support/control classes. So the DPS players who spec fully into damage all around wouldn’t have any CC worthwhile with extremely weak CC scaling

ex: .2 second stun with 0 spec into X trait/stat.
2 second stun with 200 spec into X trait/stat.

Therefore the support/control roles would FINALLY be WANTED lol

No, they would be REQUIRED, which isn’t what anet is looking for. They don’t want people sitting in lfg saying “lf Control mesmer gtg” for an hour. [shudder] oh god the BC memories in shattarath just came back…

Hahaha, very good point. However, look at all the dungeon LFGs. “Zerker only” which fixes your problem because that means 95% just have zerker gear so 95% can always play. It’s a fix to the problem… that creates the same problem in an extremely simple dull reverse way.

xKole.9175:

weskay.9217:

Certain things require more coordination. You’ll often find that organized guilds will run things quite different rather than DPS-this-and-that. I like to coin the term “one-dimensional thinking” and that’s what I think of the meta of this game. It’s true that it exists for a reason but there are other ways of doing things that can be faster and more efficient. You just have to find the right guild(s) and group(s) that do that.

Well said. I would love to find a guild like this, though. Also, thanks weskay!

I won’t turn this into a looking for guild/guild recruitment thread but Vanquish is like that. I’m the GL.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/lookingfor/TC-Tarnished-Coast-PvX-Vanquish/first#post4130269

I am in. Hahah that is what I needed for me to remain a GW2 player. Thank you!

I am going to tell a story which i know many will be like “noob” although at the start arenanet made it seem like i could make my toon how i wanted although many players think not,I know i know this build is stupid but i liked it up to a point,I run a cleric power/toughness/healing,Beastmaster ranger,Longbow,sword,dagger,It was supposed to be me tanking/healing me my pet and any one near me while i do a part of the dps and my pet does most of my dps ya know “beastmaster”,But in the end i lasted no longer than a glass cannon ranger sitting next to me or atleast anything noticeable although i have soloed some “elites” im sure some have in full dps, And in pvp i actually get 2-4 shot while having all that toughness/healing on i thought there would be more than one way to play like there SHOULD be or atleast how arenanet made it seem,But it really is not that way its dps or go home! lol,
Why bring some one built for healing when you could take a zerker and complete it much faster and just take the deaths you get lol
At first when people were new they liked my heals,But now its more like “why even have one”Why even have any armor sets if there is only 1-2 true sets that rule them all?

Any way thanks for reading and have a good one.

Most of the time I’ve done PvE dungeons I’ve been profoundly disappointing by the community:

They stacks in corners, dodge against walls, abuse the poor AI, use cheap tricks, skip dungeon sections, etc.

Then when you talk to them about the benefit of open world PvP they act all shocked, as if it could be worse for the game than what they are doing, probably because after 3 years of dodging against wall they probably forgot how to play their class and are worried everyone will realize how bad at playing their class they are.

My point is: who cares about build diversity in PvE when people stack in corners and dodge against walls? In PvP or WvW build diversity at least means something.

The problem has never been the lack of Trinity.

The problem are:

• The mechanics of a fight aren’t enforced strongly enough in the core dungeons. Look at AC the Lovers; they’re supposed to get stronger the closer they are together. However, they attempt this only once during the fight. The Effigy in CoF is supposed to get regen from the crystals – making destroying the crystals a role into itself – but this is easily ignored with a full damage group and helped along with poison. Because a lot of these mechanics can be ignored, there’s no reason to bring things like heavy CC builds, or heavy support builds.

• How the mob is ‘specced’ – for lack of a better word – is vastly inferior to players. Trash mobs come with one or two skills and there’s a pause between their attacks, meaning they die before they can really make an impact. Bosses come with 4 – 5 special skills, but compared to the total tools available to players – minimum of 50 skills at any one time, traits to boost their effectiveness, runes, sigils, weaponswap etc – they are woefully inequipped.

xKole.9175:

It literally sounds like most players want to do EVERYTHING, AT ALL TIMES, with ANYTHING. What is the purpose of classes in this game? lol Such little diversity in the BIG picture….

That’s what having versatility means. You have the ability to do nearly everything, however in this game you have a limited amount of skills to work with (and traits), so although you have the potential to fill all roles, it’s how you change your build before each encounter that makes a character truly versatile.

As an example, if I fight a big boss that allows me to get behind them for backstabs, I will use Dagger / Dagger on the Thief. Do I need to stealth my group to skip some dungeon parts? I will use a full Stealth build, traits, skills and weapons, to do so. Do I need to provide blind fields to more easily fight trash mobs? I can get an offhand weapon and/or smoke screen and do so very well. Does the boss have constant condition pressure? I’ll get condi removal on stealth.

I can switch my whole playstyle and overall my ability in a short time (when they implement build save/load it will only take a couple of seconds) and guess what, I never have to change gear stats for any of it. If I had to change my whole gear to fill the different roles then chances are I wouldn’t even change my build, ever. I would stay with the same boring build doing the same thing on all encounters, like in Trinity games, instead of changing playstyles on almost every single encounter.

Different classes provide different types of support and control. Different amounts of projectile reflects, might stacking, blind fields, fury uptime, protection, aegis, fear, immobilize etc Almost every class has something they do better than the others, that’s why it’s all about team composition

While I haven’t tinkered around with Ranger healing builds, you could make a Guardian or Elementalist healing build work wonderfully and you will definitely outlast someone that wears the glass cannon gear. Above I posted a reply about how certain guilds and groups do things differently than most people. I find myself running in full Cleric’s gear on my Guardian for more challenging content such as higher level Fractals, Aetherpath, etc. I can take several hits without needing to use my healing skill. Without sounding snobby by any means, I would say you are completely mistaken in saying that 1-2 true sets rule them all. Once again, I will coin my term of “one-dimensional thinking” and anyone that thinks there is only 1-2 viable sets in this game follow that term. There are many viable sets in this game that people are simply unaware of or are too set on the meta to bother changing. Of course, this is just my general opinion.

It kinda feels like some of the stats are broken or actually not working,again i know im not an actual tank profession being a ranger but still toughness should help and it does not,And i think this is why they did not add the monk because the monk was a good healer and they dont wanna ruin it by making it a full dps lol.

and many are right you should NOT have to worry about holy trinity BUT shouldnt the people that WANT to heal and tank be able to??? I think this is why so many are returning to GW1

PS. ranger heals are good but in like pvp it does not make a difference you usually die in 2 hits,and in dungeons there are some mechanics that kill the group faster than your heals go off lol or are exploited by " group in this corner" < stuff like that im just saying if people WANT to tank,heal they should beable to.

In pvp i have power/toughness/healing yet i die faster than the cannons or raw dps builds,And the pet seems off there were atleast 5 times where my snow leopard used icy pounce and jumped PASS the target missing lt glad that does NOT happen in pve lol,Again i do not see other builds other than that i have been this cleric ranger from the start and im going to stick with it but it does not compare at all to the raw dps builds in actually being useful I am going to keep doing tests though.

Not too sure what might be causing you to think that toughness is not helping you. You do need to have a generous amount to notice changes. The difference from say 2000 to say 2200 will be quite insignificant but if you scale it up even higher, you’ll notice a great difference. I have many characters; duplicates of classes. One warrior of mine wears a fairly glassy set while my other wears knights (a much more resilient set). I notice a huge difference between the two. I can survive only a couple of hits on my glassier warrior while my knights warrior can survive many (easily 5+). Both examples are direct hits, no dodging/blocking involved. Try going back to change a few things and see if it helps you, Trexobc. Assuming you agree with the OP about versatility.

maddoctor.2738:

xKole.9175:

It literally sounds like most players want to do EVERYTHING, AT ALL TIMES, with ANYTHING. What is the purpose of classes in this game? lol Such little diversity in the BIG picture….

That’s what having versatility means. You have the ability to do nearly everything, however in this game you have a limited amount of skills to work with (and traits), so although you have the potential to fill all roles, it’s how you change your build before each encounter that makes a character truly versatile.

As an example, if I fight a big boss that allows me to get behind them for backstabs, I will use Dagger / Dagger on the Thief. Do I need to stealth my group to skip some dungeon parts? I will use a full Stealth build, traits, skills and weapons, to do so. Do I need to provide blind fields to more easily fight trash mobs? I can get an offhand weapon and/or smoke screen and do so very well. Does the boss have constant condition pressure? I’ll get condi removal on stealth.

I can switch my whole playstyle and overall my ability in a short time (when they implement build save/load it will only take a couple of seconds) and guess what, I never have to change gear stats for any of it. If I had to change my whole gear to fill the different roles then chances are I wouldn’t even change my build, ever. I would stay with the same boring build doing the same thing on all encounters, like in Trinity games, instead of changing playstyles on almost every single encounter.

Different classes provide different types of support and control. Different amounts of projectile reflects, might stacking, blind fields, fury uptime, protection, aegis, fear, immobilize etc Almost every class has something they do better than the others, that’s why it’s all about team composition

That last sentence just got me. This game compared to almost every other MMO I have played has had the LEAST by far focus on team composition because of EVERYTHING you said before that. Everyone CAN do EVERYTHING. Yes, some do better than others at certain things, but not quite enough to make it important to care about team composition. I mean… literally every single group I have run a dungeon or fractal with took the first 5 to join and went in. Only one stipulation that I must have said 14 times in this thread “Zerker only” lol. It’s cool that it works this way to an extent, but why level my warrior when I have a thief at 80? I can “switch my whole playstyle” as you said.

you cant be a tank both in gw1 and gw2 because you have no control over mob aggro;

- forcing roles in party is going to limit, not extend players options;
- gear is not a build;
- you are not forced to play with zerk speedrunners, if you do so its your choice;
- make your own lfg;
- there are many trinity games, try them if you want to experience build/group limitations;
- learn to play;

is there anything I forgot? there should be a pin-up on forums for trinity whiners with all the answers in one place so we dont need to answer them all the time

btw you’re talking about dungeons not general pve; go open world, the amount of 111111111 versatility is amazing and you can kill dragons with any gear there

I pretty much got as much toughness i can get…my WHOLE set is power/toughness/healing,I have 6 in beastmaster,4 in survival 4 in skir, I was not going a 100% tank or healing,I am more about my pet doing damage and me staying alive for it to DO that damage while keeping my pet up but since its an aoe heal it keeps any one in it up.And even with that build my pet dies fast as do i,Outside normal mobs in the world.And in pvp its a joke with that play style the pet ai kinda sucks chases more than fights,misses its ability buy leaping over the target as they move (not dodge,run) but in pve we know its mainly a dodge game more than a tank/heal game THATS why the other styles dont really need to be there,if people actually had to fight without the dodge they would beg for a heal or tank etc.

Interesting. I find myself a bit of a “theorycrafter” when it comes to different builds and setups in this game. I feel like something must be off in your build if you’re experiencing this level of frustration/error. I have the same set of armor (on my Guardian mind you but same set nonetheless) as well as a glassier set. Once again, I notice a significant difference. I’m happy to help you with your build in-game at any time if you wish.

segman.3560:

you cant be a tank both in gw1 and gw2 because you have no control over mob aggro;

- forcing roles in party is going to limit, not extend players options;
- gear is not a build;
- you are not forced to play with zerk speedrunners, if you do so its your choice;
- make your own lfg;
- there are many trinity games, try them if you want to experience build/group limitations;
- learn to play;

is there anything I forgot? there should be a pin-up on forums for trinity whiners with all the answers in one place so we dont need to answer them all the time

btw you’re talking about dungeons not general pve; go open world, the amount of 111111111 versatility is amazing and you can kill dragons with any gear there

Thank you for the maturity. Anet actually said that their is 3 roles to play. DPS, support, and control. However DPS is GOD in this game by far as voted by the player base and to be honest for good reason. Not asking to force roles, just wanting control and support builds/specs to be more reasonable and rewarding ways to play. I like doing dungeons, and yes btw there ALREADY is forced roles. I mean role* DPS.

xKole.9175:

That last sentence just got me. This game compared to almost every other MMO I have played has had the LEAST by far focus on team composition because of EVERYTHING you said before that. Everyone CAN do EVERYTHING. Yes, some do better than others at certain things, but not quite enough to make it important to care about team composition. I mean… literally every single group I have run a dungeon or fractal with took the first 5 to join and went in. Only one stipulation that I must have said 14 times in this thread “Zerker only” lol.

One thing Anet said before launch is that they wanted players to ‘bring the player rather than the class’.

Personally I’d rather be able to throw a team together with whatever professions are at hand and whatever professions my mates like to play than having to wait because a specific profession is needed or forcing someone to play a profession they don’t like.

xKole.9175:

It’s cool that it works this way to an extent, but why level my warrior when I have a thief at 80? I can “switch my whole playstyle” as you said.

Because Warriors and Thieves bring different things.

For example, good offensive group support (FGJ, Banners, Phalanx Strength, Empower Allies etc), whereas Thieves bring good evasive group support (stealth for respite).

xKole.9175:

Not asking to force roles, just wanting control and support builds/specs to be more reasonable and rewarding ways to play. I like doing dungeons, and yes btw there ALREADY is forced roles. I mean role* DPS.

Except damage is always going to be a required role in any game with combat.

If you want to play control / support orientated builds, why not start your own dungeon runs and post any build welcome?

And lol gear is part of a build

and actually my drakes can hold aggro for me as well as the bear i seen it hold aggro as well.

It may not be 100 trinity he/she wants it could be that he/she WANTS to be viable for tanking and healing.

And soon you will be forced to play with zerk because every one is going to see how fast/easy it is and all cling to it most want quick and simple.

And there should be tactics in dungeons,not exploits,all hiding ina corner so you take less damage is sad really instead of a normal fight trying to worry about healing dodging etc hide ina corner for it to become easy lol.

Like i said you should NOT have to get a tank or healer BUT players should beable to actually do that role.Which i know (But you can) you may beable to but you are not really rewarded, well with MOST groups.

weskay.9217:

Interesting. I find myself a bit of a “theorycrafter” when it comes to different builds and setups in this game. I feel like something must be off in your build if you’re experiencing this level of frustration/error. I have the same set of armor (on my Guardian mind you but same set nonetheless) as well as a glassier set. Once again, I notice a significant difference. I’m happy to help you with your build in-game at any time if you wish.

Its not that its horrible in pve but its not that great,It can be done but i feel if i went dps i would be WAY more help,Which in the end i would be : D i say you should try the build it is actually fun in the open world taking on so many while your pet mauls em in the back.But in dungeons i notice i do seem to die as fast as the others in dps gear.UNLESS i pop troll unguent and spirit of nature then i heal quite a bit,and can use spirit of nature at the right time to revive the whole team.

Pretty much use every thing to buff pet,Start with ranged ,When they get to close switch to melee and fight away,watch health pop heal when needed and watch the pet go crazy then throw in the “sic em” and rampage as one,signet of the hunt,signet of the wild and watch your pet go well hmm i guess SUUPER crazy lol

TheDaiBish.9735:

If you want to play control / support orientated builds, why not start your own dungeon runs and post any build welcome?

I think this may support the OP’s reply to you: While that suggestion is a solution, I think it’s the general notion that no one should necessarily have to post that any build is welcome; it should be the norm, if that makes sense. It’s just unfortunate that it is not so. I work around that by choosing not to “LFG”. Instead, I just group up with guild mates and friends that share this notion. Once again, you shouldn’t necessarily have to avoid LFG, but that is just how it is as it stands.

All i am tryin to say is

Arenanet said bring the player not the profession(class)
Yet it does not feel like that it feels like bring dps/glass cannons zerker etc etc
I’m actually not one for healing groups or tanking like i said it was more about keeping my pet alive so he can dps with me since he IS my dps,as well as making my self a lil tanky to stay alive to help the pet etc lol< if that makes sense,But the people that WANT to heal really dont got much to work with,or tank.They got some but not enough in my opinion and to top it all off no one REALLY wants em in the group but maybe the nice guild if they find it and a few friends.

And i believe they meant you dont NEED holy trinity not that you shouldnt heal/tank because they gave people abilities to do so,And created armor sets for them jobs.If people want to do raw dps GREAT ! thats perfect BUT the people that want to heal and tank should have a place as well.

xKole.9175:

maddoctor.2738:

xKole.9175:

It literally sounds like most players want to do EVERYTHING, AT ALL TIMES, with ANYTHING. What is the purpose of classes in this game? lol Such little diversity in the BIG picture….

That’s what having versatility means. You have the ability to do nearly everything, however in this game you have a limited amount of skills to work with (and traits), so although you have the potential to fill all roles, it’s how you change your build before each encounter that makes a character truly versatile.

As an example, if I fight a big boss that allows me to get behind them for backstabs, I will use Dagger / Dagger on the Thief. Do I need to stealth my group to skip some dungeon parts? I will use a full Stealth build, traits, skills and weapons, to do so. Do I need to provide blind fields to more easily fight trash mobs? I can get an offhand weapon and/or smoke screen and do so very well. Does the boss have constant condition pressure? I’ll get condi removal on stealth.

I can switch my whole playstyle and overall my ability in a short time (when they implement build save/load it will only take a couple of seconds) and guess what, I never have to change gear stats for any of it. If I had to change my whole gear to fill the different roles then chances are I wouldn’t even change my build, ever. I would stay with the same boring build doing the same thing on all encounters, like in Trinity games, instead of changing playstyles on almost every single encounter.

Different classes provide different types of support and control. Different amounts of projectile reflects, might stacking, blind fields, fury uptime, protection, aegis, fear, immobilize etc Almost every class has something they do better than the others, that’s why it’s all about team composition

That last sentence just got me. This game compared to almost every other MMO I have played has had the LEAST by far focus on team composition because of EVERYTHING you said before that. Everyone CAN do EVERYTHING. Yes, some do better than others at certain things, but not quite enough to make it important to care about team composition. I mean… literally every single group I have run a dungeon or fractal with took the first 5 to join and went in. Only one stipulation that I must have said 14 times in this thread “Zerker only” lol. It’s cool that it works this way to an extent, but why level my warrior when I have a thief at 80? I can “switch my whole playstyle” as you said.

Because Warriors and Thieves bring completely different abilities to the team.

Yes, some do better than others at certain things, but not quite enough to make it important to care about team composition

You can do everything with any team composition, which is one of the great things about this game, however you clearly don’t understand how different classes work. Sure you can take any 5 people and do anything, but there is an “optimal” party set-up in the game.

A D/F Elementalist and a PS Warrior have some of the best might stacking in the game, so the groups aiming for smoother/better runs will need one of those. A Thief can stealth much much better than anyone else, making dungeon runs last a fraction of the time by “skipping” parts. Mesmers can also fill this role, although not as effective as a Thief, they can work very well in skipping content with stealth. Guardians and Mesmers have the best anti-projectile skills in the game, and are both required in many encounters. The DPS of a Staff Elementalist (with full buffs from party members) is unrivaled and can make fights last way less time than without one in the group.

If you want the “best” team composition, it’s something like:
1 D/F Elementalist or PS Warrior
1 Staff Elementalist
1 Thief
1 Guardian

A non-PS Warrior and a Mesmer can fill the last spot easily, depending on encounter, a Mesmer would make some parts a lot easier with their portal.

As for other professions, Rangers provide good Fury uptime, good DPS and special skills not available elsewere (Frost Spirit and Spotter), so if specced correctly a Ranger can really help a team, but probably AFTER they get a might stacker first.

I haven’t done enough runs on engineer / necromancer yet but at least for the Engineer I know their DPS is excellent, they can might stack, provide water fields for healing and condition cleaning and even stealth. Necromancer is probably the sturdiest class, but is considered by many a “selfish” one without enough buffs for the team

So there IS team building and team composition, but it is not enforced, which for me is a very good thing.

This game is not a trinity mmo. Stop thinking with tank/heal/dps cattegories.
Everyone can heal himself. AoE heals are little additions but they are weak and scale bad with healing power. What’s more even if you buff healing power why would I need a healer if I can heal myself with skill 6?

Dps/Support/Control is GW2’s soft trinity. It doesn’t mean you have to spec in any of them to achieve your goal but you can use skills and traits allowing you to execute those roles even with one character.

Control is fulfilled with mob positioning, both with skills and terrain adventages. You deal with a boss interrupting his strongest attack. You avoid his other attacks with dodge. This is how you control your environment.

Support is fulfilled with reflects, cleanses, boons. When boss hits you with one-shot skill your dedicated healer is useless. However aware guardian activating aegis can save whole party. This is supporting in GW2.

DPS is obvious. You can’t defeat a boss outhealing him or tanking his dps only. The main difference to other mmos is that in GW2 you’re supposed to do many other things in addition to dps if you want to success. For me this is much more interesting than hitting boss for 5 mins while healer casts his macroed combos.

What you’re whining about is that ppl use zerker gear. This is a dps gear but it’s also the most punishing gear. In most boss fights there’s no second chance if you fail to dodge. But the zerk meta wasnt there at the beginning. Do you know why ppl play for efficiency now? Because for almost 3 years now we’re replaying the same dungeons over and over again. We LEARNED them. The gear is mostly an indicator of the level of player’s understanding of the game. We know the game better so we play more risky.

You can play in soldier gear or knight gear but for dungeons your traits and skills would be the same. Conditions is another thing, but conditions is dps too. If they remove condi cap with HoT it’s possible we’ll see some condi spec builds in pve. However it’s still dps only in your mindset.

About LFG. I don’t know why some ppl are so entitled to getting spot in every party. When ppl advertise their LFG they’re mostly writing their demands. If you join them without fulfilling their demands it’s your fault, because you’re destroying their fun. It’s their right to play with ppl they are posting for. This is why I said earlier – create your own LFG. If a jerk comes in, kick him. You set the rules of your party when posting LFG message but you’re also expected to fulfill req of other ppl LFGs if you join them.

Conclusion – this game is designed different to standard dps/heal/tank mindset. If you chose to buy it, learn it and play by rules. Find ppl with similar mindset to yours and have fun. When you meet a person goind full zerk and you want to go full trinity team comp just dont play with each other. What’s the problem?

so zerker gear prevents equipping support and cc skills? Interesting. That must be the reason no succesful dungeon runners are using blind, stability, might, reflection, protection etc.