Guild Wars 2

Ceno.1763:

There are, however, four problems with this change, all of which I’ll go into in detail as best I can. They are as follows:

• A massive hit to Economic Action (or Economic Movement, if you prefer that term)

Blah-blah; a statement that can neither be proven nor disproved. Farm elsewhere and get loot just the same.

• A not-inconsiderable hit to getting new players/alts to higher levels quickly and easily (no one wants to stay in the starter zones for an eternity, and the trains were a fine way of getting you up to level 30 fast)

There are tomes to get characters to level 20. I have them in surplus….

• A detrimental effect on the game’s presentation to new players (difficulty, opportunity, necessity of teamwork, etc.)

Nonsense, there was no train when I explored Queensdale with my main, when she was level 10 and the absence of the train was definitely not detrimental. I think it is, or was, the other way around.

• A clear and fundamental shift from what Guild Wars 2 prided itself on offering apart from other MMORPGs: a cross-world experience for all players, young and old, that would be made available and enjoyable to players regardless of their in-game level.

Removing end-game content from a starter zone is hardly a ‘fundamental shift’.

Champ trains do not belong in starter zones, where people are trying to get familiar with their characters, the game mechanics, where they experience the stories and the lore.

In my eyes, this isn’t the Queensdale’s death. It’s a rebirth.

With the nerf to all the mobs from the 4/15 update high level characters could no longer accompany their low level friends in the low levels. That was one of the things I used to like about GW2. Downgrading the camps in low levels also discourages high level and any level character really from visiting these areas after they have 100% completion of that map. It does seem that Arenanet is trying to push everyone, high and low, to the higher levels. The new trait system is certainly trying to do that.

Nothing is stopping you from going to Queensdale on a level 80. That’s silly. This was brought about because some people just want to press-1 for easy loot in a starter zone for hours on end. Now its time to put on the big boy pants, and maybe let the actual new players discover something more than ‘boar-oak-troll-bandit, or /report’

People arguing about the death of QD-train(not implying OP did) was a bad thing seems to see past what else the game has to offer.

First of all, the QD-train is dead. But not champ trains overall. There’s still plenty of zones with champions in it to be found. I’ve been playing since day-1 release and I’m still not fully familiar with zones such as Iron Marches or Timberline Falls. Who knows how many champions are hiding there?

Sure economy will be affected by this but even if the train is dead. I don’t believe all those people just quit the game and our supplies of mats to TP is disappearing.

Face the fact that every single MMO is boring in the low levels, that’s what keeps you motivated to level up. To experience more epic stuff and feel a development in your own skills. The train didn’t provide anything of that to a new player.

1. press number 1
2. loot
3. wp
4. run
5. repeat

That’s the train and in such a low level zone as QD there’s no teamwork or difficulty since everything in that zone is killed so easy. It’s a braindead farm. I’m all in for champ trains but it doesn’t belong in the starter zones.

Great change, came way to late though.

Complaining about the economy because the Queensdale train is no more is a little silly as the economy is pretty much controlled by the Trading Post manipulators and Gold Sellers.

Complaining that leveling is slow without the train shows you have obviously been killing the same 4 mobs over and over for far too long as the trains were probably the least efficient way of leveling.

Complaining the loss of the Queensdale train affects players ability to function in a team work orientated environment is quite right. Means you’ll just have to move to the WvW to learn how to follow a little blue tag with the rest of the zerg.

In the end it means players will migrate to higher level zones or WvW like it was intended, the economy will remain in the hands of manipulators and gold sellers , WvW will still be a total zergfest, necro melee minions will STILL be broken and the starter area will be ghost towns inhabited by copper ore salvage kit users and the tiny influx of new players.

I’m sure players will find somewhere else to farm those coloured 4-slot bags

Maxite.6102:

Nothing is stopping you from going to Queensdale on a level 80. That’s silly. This was brought about because some people just want to press-1 for easy loot in a starter zone for hours on end. Now its time to put on the big boy pants, and maybe let the actual new players discover something more than ‘boar-oak-troll-bandit, or /report’

I’ll probably go to Queensdale, when I start logging in again, to farm veterans, events and mentored events for dailies/monthlies. I probably wont take any of my 80s but one of my 50 somethings for a little more challenge. Even so any newby who is trying to participate probably won’t get much of a chance to get any credit for taking a veteran down.

If they really wanted to stop the Queensdale train they would have broken the synergetic timing too/instead.

The next thing they need to do to clear out most high levels in Queensdale is to downgrade the shadow behemoth and/or nerf its rewards. Talk about a boring fight. Done it twice and that was enough. You spend all your long, long time cycling through your skills hoping your are actually targeting the thing and rezzing people. Occasionally you have to take out some spawned lower mobs.

Ceno.1763:

• A massive hit to Economic Action (or Economic Movement, if you prefer that term)
• A not-inconsiderable hit to getting new players/alts to higher levels quickly and easily (no one wants to stay in the starter zones for an eternity, and the trains were a fine way of getting you up to level 30 fast)
• A detrimental effect on the game’s presentation to new players (difficulty, opportunity, necessity of teamwork, etc.)
• A clear and fundamental shift from what Guild Wars 2 prided itself on offering apart from other MMORPGs: a cross-world experience for all players, young and old, that would be made available and enjoyable to players regardless of their in-game level.

Sorry, but I stopped reading here.

• It was a horrible, horrible way to make money. Sure, everything pales in comparison to TP flipping (which is a separate issue for a separate thread); but anyone farming Queensdale was just fooling themselves.
• Exploring and personal story was far, far faster xp than the train. Levelling up is no hardship in this game. Besides, what’s the point of levelling up in the train, instead of exploring; when you’ll explore the rest of the map at some point or another.
• The game will look a lot better to new players now. No being yelled at by level 80s wanting to farm their zone, not being taught bad gameplay (that 1 is all you need), not being given horrible build/farming/how to play the game advice.
• High level players can still go to Queensdale, and other sub-80 zones, to play with and help their friends. This feature was not removed.

I’m fine with a champion train for poor farm, but take it out of starter zones and lose the hostility towards interruptions.

You realize the the QD train nerf isn’t the first train nerf. FGS’s changes now result in a lot of standing around waiting for champs because they grouped what’s now called ‘The Trio’. It’s not about new player experience. It’s about nerfing, pure and simple. Taking a 50,000 ft view of what’s been nerfed and what hasn’t, there’s only a few play styles that haven’t been significantly nerfed, if you disregard the constant build nerfs. Wow, I just wrote ‘nerf’ six, now seven times. Anyway, each patch brings about a player base that logs in and looks around at what remains for them to do in a game that once was wide open and free. Apparently, the current player base likes to be told, quite often, how to play the game, what’s approved play styles, and how much loot they should take in a day. Wow, I play the game to get AWAY from reality.

The Queensdale train was literally the worst thing that happened to this game.

People who start playing in Queensdale see everyone just doing the train and are led to believe thats how the game is supposed to be played. Then they do it for 20 or something levels, say to themselves “this game is kittening boring” and quit.

I don’t understand how people are complaining about it being removed.

No champs, except world bosses, in starter areas anymore was a great decision, imo. Especially the annoying Krait in Caledon surrounding the underwater skill point challenge and the giant ooze in Metrica, as there nearly never were trains in these zones, they easily could frustrate (new) players encountering them and getting no help.

There are so many champs in the other areas, that most of the time simply were ignored. I leveled a few different toons in higher zones in the past few weeks and even in Gendarran Fields, crowded with players, it was a challenge on its own to find just one other helping hand for killing champs. I had to do many of them alone (or was killed by them, eg. the Hylek Queen in Brisban Wilderness). These times are gone now, hopefully.

I’m pretty sure the former QD train now will transfer to a 15-25 or higher area.

I also participated the QD train from time to time, but not for leveling or achievement purpose, just for the loot. If I want the bags now, I’ve to go to another area, I don’t see a problem.

Meh. QD train was never that great for karma or gold, still was a good way to do events for dailies/monthly while chilling out in the best map of gw2 (most starter zones are more beatiful and well designed then endgame ones ). Sure, sometimes there was some cursing and badmouthing in map, but that in my experience was pretty rare and is a common thing on all open world MMOs, easily solved by reporting, or the threat of doing so…

I can understand anet not wanting new players to perceive the game as a mindless zerg train, but the nerf only delays that realization by a few levels really.

A better way to fix the champ train problem without removing champs would have been to put them on random timers. Like that you never know when and in which order they will pop. Every time you kill one a random repawn timer, which varies from several minutes to several hours, is selected. No more stupid mindless zerg train, champs are still there for those who might stumble upon them.

Zergs are a mindless press #1 activity. Having them in starter zones is a great way of training players (both new and old) to stop thinking and go on auto-pilot. If the majority of GW2 players are acclimated to brain-dead gameplay, Anet is very limited in the kind of new things they can ever add to the game.

It is also unhealthy for the overall game to consolidate the majority of the population into one area. It is better to try to spread people out.

Turin.1024:

The Queensdale train was literally the worst thing that happened to this game.

Exaggerate much?

A few days ago, someone said in map chat that they are going to report someone for breaking the train.

This is also why it had to go.

Wait… all starter zones champions were nerfed or just Queensdale’s?

Hermes.7014:

Wait… all starter zones champions were nerfed or just Queensdale’s?

All starter zone champs- say goodbye to the Transformed Krait witch too.
I loved beating on her simply because she horri-murdered me back in the day

Until they do something about the shadow behemoth the zerg mentality is still present in Queensdale. Downscale it, reduce rewards and put it on a random timer. Then the scourge of the zerg will be purged from Queensdale.

Lazuli.2098:

Until they do something about the shadow behemoth the zerg mentality is still present in Queensdale. Downscale it, reduce rewards and put it on a random timer. Then scourge of the zerg will be purged from Queensdale.

good grief!
one of my favorite memories in the game is the first time I saw Shadow behemoth spawn back at launch
Leave my favorite boss alone
It is bad enough that SB is already so weak- just before the mega server I killed it with 3 other people- and you want it reduced?

BTW Shadow Behemoth was camped long long before the champs even had loot. Remember the Final Rest hunt? when no one knew he dropped it? i and a bunch of people killed him every day.

oh and while you are “purging”- you realize that new players are not some pure as driven snow special little flowers that they need to be protected form the rest of the game at all costs?
There are zergs in the game you know?

we are already so kitten limited in what we can do when and where-
way to go at this rate we will all be standing in LA TP flipping because we can do that as much as we want with no consequences

And frankly I am tired of hearing Queensdale this and Queensdale that- it is not a sacred space- it is one starter zone.
Guess what because of people crying about Queensdale as if it is the lost continent- all starter zone champs are gone.

A new player will never again see a champ in any of the other zones and think ooooo and even get to try their luck- die and bring some friends next time- or come back for revenge at a higher level and kick that champ’s behind.

It was fun, it was how I learned when the game just came out, back then we could play how we wanted

“Meh. QD train was never that great for karma or gold, still was a good way to do events for dailies/monthly while chilling out in the best map of gw2 (most starter zones are more beatiful and well designed then endgame ones ).”

People can still do that. All the people who enjoyed Queensdale because it was scenic, social, friendly, relaxed, can still go there. Nothing is stopping them. I’m guessing the trains will disappear though and I’m guessing it will be due to the loot, regardless of the pleasantries.

The only people that seem happy about the QD train nerf are people that didn’t run the train in the first place.

It makes me wonder about the state of the community when the vocal majority is celebrating the misfortune of others.

Scrambles.2604:

The only people that seem happy about the QD train nerf are people that didn’t run the train in the first place.

It makes me wonder about the state of the community when the vocal majority is celebrating the misfortune of others.

Or fortune of others. The issue wasn’t at all one sided.

Ceno.1763:

• A not-inconsiderable hit to getting new players/alts to higher levels quickly and easily (no one wants to stay in the starter zones for an eternity, and the trains were a fine way of getting you up to level 30 fast)

At least since the feature patch changes this is inconsiderable. All Professions without utility skill based movement speed increase but traits only, and especially Mesmers without focus (even when used, the speed buff didn’t last long enough) and Engineers (moving speed trait slot available at lvl 60) were easily overtaken by the majority of downscaled lvl 80 rune-of-traveller players, without the chance to land even one hit on eg. the Bandit. That’s why many of them skipped the Bandit or the Wasp and those who didn’t, didn’t do the train for leveling from 1 to 30 purpose.

zoejo.2317:

Scrambles.2604:

The only people that seem happy about the QD train nerf are people that didn’t run the train in the first place.

It makes me wonder about the state of the community when the vocal majority is celebrating the misfortune of others.

Or fortune of others. The issue wasn’t at all one sided.

I guess i don’t see what you have gained from the loss of the QD zerg if you didn’t run it.

I stick to WvW so nothing has changed for me, except the occasional champ bag since i logged in and out at a champ spot. I just hate to see a player generated activity in the open world get killed.

There is Frostgorge Sound and Cursed Shore, both of which have plenty of champs that can be farmed in a train, over and over and with better rewards than the one that was in QD. I never quite got why people wasted time on the QD train anyways. There are more than enough events that go on, on all the low level maps and above that can easily be farmed.

I say this because the only reason I can see anyone investing time into the QD train would have been to level up because the rewards otherwise are not on par with the level 80 spots with champs to farm. So I say there are plenty of events and chain events that can be farmed for reasonable loot, karma and more exp than would be obtained from champ farming.

Crikey, so many self righteous kittens preening over the removal of champs from Queensdale. Who gave you lot the right to tell people to play the game your way and only your way?

I can understand if champ trains are not to someone’s liking as a play style, but so what if others like doing this for whatever reasons? Champ trains, no matter where they are running, have absolutely nothing to do with you. unless you are in one.

“Who gave you lot the right to tell people to play the game your way and only your way?”

This isn’t about the way people play the game though. You can go there are play in exactly the same way you did last week. And the week before. And the week before that. So can everyone else. The only thing that has changed is the loot reward. The enjoyment is still there …. assuming that you were not just enjoying the loot.

Can someone please insert the animated gif of a guy beating a dead horse? I can’t find it anywhere…

I did a few QD, FGS and Orr trains and like many who have posted before me found them mindnumbingly stupid. I rolled a human necro and completely ignored the train. While doing the map completion, if I saw a champion and there were a few players nearby I called them over and we’d take down the champ. Train or no train. If people complained about their sequence being broken, well stiff biccies.

The trains are quite literally the dumbest things that I have ever seen in a game.

Players learning “teamwork” and how to actually PLAY GW2 from the Zerg in Queensdale were taught everything wrong and are in for a rude wakening when NOT in a ZERG…….If anything the existence of the Zerg was highly detrimental to new players (and in more ways that just BAD HABIT training….no pun intended).

If you WANT to Champ train, there are other zones in the game that have the capability to run one…..some already do. Go run them.

I just have to shake my head at anyone that used QD Champ train as a main way to level a new character (and a borderline exploit in my opinion).

One point that everyone complaining about this change (and WHY Anet did it) is being ignored. Anet did not target Queensdale, but removed Champs from ALL starter zones. That makes it pretty obvious to me this s not a “Dont’ farm Champs” move, but a “You will NOT farm Champs in starter zones”, one.

Scrambles.2604:

zoejo.2317:

Scrambles.2604:

The only people that seem happy about the QD train nerf are people that didn’t run the train in the first place.

It makes me wonder about the state of the community when the vocal majority is celebrating the misfortune of others.

Or fortune of others. The issue wasn’t at all one sided.

I guess i don’t see what you have gained from the loss of the QD zerg if you didn’t run it.

I personally don’t gain anything from these nerfs, because I actually ran with the zerg from time to time to level alts + get a bit of loot, but I can see why they did what they did.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Scrambles.2604:

zoejo.2317:

Scrambles.2604:

The only people that seem happy about the QD train nerf are people that didn’t run the train in the first place.

It makes me wonder about the state of the community when the vocal majority is celebrating the misfortune of others.

Or fortune of others. The issue wasn’t at all one sided.

I guess i don’t see what you have gained from the loss of the QD zerg if you didn’t run it.

I personally don’t gain anything from these nerfs, because I actually ran with the zerg from time to time to level alts + get a bit of loot, but I can see why they did what they did.

That’s cool and all, but i was addressing the large faction of the forum community that is celebrating the loss of the train that they also didn’t run. I guess i don’t understand the perspective of someone who finds joy in someone else’s misery.

It’s as if some players themselves have turned into the toxic players they claim ruined the queensdale zerg.

Scrambles.2604:

I guess i don’t understand the perspective of someone who finds joy in someone else’s misery.

I guess people are finding joy in the misery of those that made Queensdale miserable for the new players.

Scrambles.2604:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Scrambles.2604:

zoejo.2317:

Scrambles.2604:

The only people that seem happy about the QD train nerf are people that didn’t run the train in the first place.

It makes me wonder about the state of the community when the vocal majority is celebrating the misfortune of others.

Or fortune of others. The issue wasn’t at all one sided.

I guess i don’t see what you have gained from the loss of the QD zerg if you didn’t run it.

I personally don’t gain anything from these nerfs, because I actually ran with the zerg from time to time to level alts + get a bit of loot, but I can see why they did what they did.

That’s cool and all, but i was addressing the large faction of the forum community that is celebrating the loss of the train that they also didn’t run. I guess i don’t understand the perspective of someone who finds joy in someone else’s misery.

It’s as if some players themselves have turned into the toxic players they claim ruined the queensdale zerg.

Whether they celebrate it or not doesn’t change anything, so there’s no reason to care about what they find good, funny and/or enjoyable. If there’s anyone who genuinely takes pleasure in the misfortune of a particular group of people, rather than in the fortune of another, it is for the best to avoid sinking down to their level.
Be the greater man.

I have literally met lvl 80s with <4% Map Completion…

Vesuvius.9874:

Scrambles.2604:

I guess i don’t understand the perspective of someone who finds joy in someone else’s misery.

I guess people are finding joy in the misery of those that made Queensdale miserable for the new players.

See, and i don’t understand that perspective. If you believe that, then you also have to believe that ALL the players running QD train were miserable towards new players.

Even the few times i did see volatility in map chat, it was only like 1 person.

Given that, you are celebrating the loss of those who were a majority of QD train runners, who were just regular players, and justifying it because a small percentage of the QD train runners were rude.

I guess it’s a very narrow perspective which is why i fail to grasp it myself.

Scrambles.2604:

Vesuvius.9874:

Scrambles.2604:

I guess i don’t understand the perspective of someone who finds joy in someone else’s misery.

I guess people are finding joy in the misery of those that made Queensdale miserable for the new players.

See, and i don’t understand that perspective. If you believe that, then you also have to believe that ALL the players running QD train were miserable towards new players.

Even the few times i did see volatility in map chat, it was only like 1 person.

Given that, you are celebrating the loss of those who were a majority of QD train runners, who were just regular players, and justifying it because a small percentage of the QD train runners were rude.

I guess it’s a very narrow perspective which is why i fail to see it myself.

Just because you fail to see something doesn’t mean it’s not there, and valid.
You saw it happen once, others saw it repeatedly. For every person that speaks in map chat, tons more have seen it. Some, if not most, new players. Even if they don’t say anything, they’re still exposed to toxicity between players (both sides) and that’s their first impression of the game’s community.

While I wasn’t in favor of just ending the train, I was in favor of doing something about the attitude that has been punished in whisper (insults, etc), so why not in other types of chat? It happened so that the solution chosen was to shutdown the train, but that’s hardly a problem for train runners: there’s plenty of other spots where you can keep this tradition alive. And hopefully they won’t generate so much hate in chat, or won’t be exactly where new players get their first impression of the game.

Scrambles.2604:

Vesuvius.9874:

Scrambles.2604:

I guess i don’t understand the perspective of someone who finds joy in someone else’s misery.

I guess people are finding joy in the misery of those that made Queensdale miserable for the new players.

See, and i don’t understand that perspective. If you believe that, then you also have to believe that ALL the players running QD train were miserable towards new players.

Perhaps you misunderstood what I said. If you read my post again, you will see that I wrote that people are happy in the misery of only those that made Queensdale miserable for new players (not necessarily everyone that was part of the train). I too ran the QD train. By your logic then, I’m berating myself. That is not the case. There were a lot of nice people doing the train. It’s the immature people part of the train who abused new players that screwed this up for everyone else. They were the minority and they messed it up for everyone.

Sounds like a lot of other things going on in the world today…

zoejo.2317:

Just because you fail to see something doesn’t mean it’s not there, and valid.
You saw it happen once, others saw it repeatedly. For every person that speaks in map chat, tons more have seen it. Some, if not most, new players. Even if they don’t say anything, they’re still exposed to toxicity between players (both sides) and that’s their first impression of the game’s community.

While I wasn’t in favor of just ending the train, I was in favor of doing something about the attitude that has been punished in whisper (insults, etc), so why not in other types of chat? It happened so that the solution chosen was to shutdown the train, but that’s hardly a problem for train runners: there’s plenty of other spots where you can keep this tradition alive. And hopefully they won’t generate so much hate in chat, or won’t be exactly where new players get their first impression of the game.

You’re still operating under the assumption that all players on the train are responsible for the actions of the few people that were rude. I think it’s wrong to celebrate the loss of those that are not responsible for the toxicity in chat.

If were cutting features based on map chat toxicity, i would start with the living story haha.

Vesuvius.9874:

snip

then maybe my comments weren’t directed at you. I was referring to players celebrating the fact that others can’t run the QD train anymore.

Lanhelin.3480:

There are so many champs in the other areas, that most of the time simply were ignored.

What if they increased Champion loot AND put in place a one bag per day, per champion cap? Would that be incentive enough for the player base to explore ALL the maps and not just find another hamster wheel map to sit in for hours on end? Or would people just find a way to turn it into another massive “train”?

I think it has potential. I mean there are how many possible champions across all the maps? If people wanted to farm for those increased rewards, they’d be booking it for a long time I think.

Scrambles.2604:

The only people that seem happy about the QD train nerf are people that didn’t run the train in the first place.

It makes me wonder about the state of the community when the vocal majority is celebrating the misfortune of others.

How many people were typically running the QD train?
How many people were playing elsewhere in the game?

The folks doing the QD train are the vocal minority, not the other way around as you seem to think.

Azrael.4960:

I did a few QD, FGS and Orr trains and like many who have posted before me found them mindnumbingly stupid. I rolled a human necro and completely ignored the train. While doing the map completion, if I saw a champion and there were a few players nearby I called them over and we’d take down the champ. Train or no train. If people complained about their sequence being broken, well stiff biccies.

The trains are quite literally the dumbest things that I have ever seen in a game.

That’s the same reaction I got from people who don’t play the game, or used to play the game and quit. Freed from the biases of loot and conditioning from having done it, they nearly all thought it was the stupidest thing ever. Running around just knocking off the bosses for loot, instead of immersing yourself in the environment for a generic champ kill, or having to work through the surrounding minions before you can even reach the boss (Same criticism applies to GW2 dungeons too btw.)

I did the trains early on because I didn’t even know many of these champs existed, and I wanted to see where they were. But it quickly grew boring and I only did it when there was a champ daily.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Players learning “teamwork” and how to actually PLAY GW2 from the Zerg in Queensdale were taught everything wrong and are in for a rude wakening when NOT in a ZERG…….If anything the existence of the Zerg was highly detrimental to new players (and in more ways that just BAD HABIT training….no pun intended).

I agree, but ultimately the lack of teamwork rests upon the dissolution of the trinity (tank, healer, nuker). I think it was great getting rid of the healer so we didn’t have to stand around town waiting for one to show up, or forcing a party member who didn’t want to play a healer to play one. But without specific roles each player has to take up, there is no need for teamwork.

In that respect, I think the stack-and-melee mentality is just as harmful as the zerg mentality. It’s a strategy meant to minimize teamwork between party members (aside from the occasional call for a water field), by setting things up so you can just do whatever you want without the need to communicate it, while still maximizing benefit to the party.

Along those lines, I think they need to add a new type of combo field which can only be triggered by the next attack, or even a specific chain of attacks. That would give people greater rewards for more coordinated play, instead of just dropping fire and forget combo fields.

Scrambles.2604:

You’re still operating under the assumption that all players on the train are responsible for the actions of the few people that were rude. I think it’s wrong to celebrate the loss of those that are not responsible for the toxicity in chat.

If it was the minority in the QD train who were rude, the majority in the train should’ve told them to shut up. I never saw that happen. Shortly after the champ loot bag patch, I “accidentally” helped kill a champ outside the train before I even know there was a QD train. The berating we got in map chat would’ve easily made me quit the game if I were new.

To be fair, I did see a number of train commanders simply skip a champ without comment if it had been killed by those outside the train, silently accepting that that can happen. But it’s not enough just to ignore the rude train runners. You have to set them straight that the train does not own the champ mobs in the zone – anyone in the zone is free to kill them at any time.

If that had happened naturally, this change would not have been necessary.

Tman.6349:

I have literally met lvl 80s with <4% Map Completion…

THAT is a pathetic (and unfortunately believable) statistic…..

I ran QD Train numerous times (mostly to get Daily Events quickly) and have to say the experience was enjoyable for about the first couple of loops…..then I got over it….every time. If the point of playing this game is making gold…..isn’t that the definition of a JOB in real life and are you still “playing” a game?

Solandri.9640:

snip

i think you got confused on my first point. I was referring to the people celebrating the end of the QD train (the vocal majority on the forums). They are happy the toxic players lost out on their train, while the majority of people that ran the train were normal, friendly players.

To your second point, i don’t think it’s fair to blame regular players for not confronting the rude players, or to even assume to know any frequency at which these attempts to confront rude players did occur.

Calling out a troll in map chat is just adding more fuel to the flames, and people that complain about map chat wont see it as righteous defense of the innocent but just more arguing attributed to the QD train.

In my experience, the best way to deal with trolls is to leave them alone and ignore them. The whole point of a troll is to solicit a response. Usually, confronting a troll in map chat just leads to more of the same chatter that people were complaining about having to read in the first place.

In conclusion, when you are celebrating the loss of the QD train, don’t forget about the majority of the train riders that never did anything wrong, or even went out of their way to help people, who are also effected by the loss of the train.

It’s up to Anet to decide what features to keep and get rid of, but there is no reason why the community should be victimizing people that enjoyed an activity because there is a false perception that the bad apples are the rule rather than the exception.

Cormac.3871:

A while ago I looked at what other areas might work for a champ train. Gendarran Fields turned out to be really good, including two sets of two champs very close to each other. Since I looked at that however three of those four champs have been downgraded (the spider near the rich iron ore node, and two pirates) so I don’t think that a champ train there would work any more.

Really sad. ANet continues to leech fun out of the game.

I still don’t get why the people hate the zerg and the QD train.

Was great having people killing the champs all the time. It’s horribly frustating when you’re sitting in front of a champion, asking for help on the map chat and nobody cares.
And that happened to me countless times.
Now I just know that the champs usually don’t worth the effort.

look all your points are pointless really. you know why? because in a game that advertised as not grindy but became a grind heaven, the end less brain less champ farming. i have not seen any triple A mmo offers endless 24/7 grind(limited daily, weekly grind like dungeon, raids etc) . you still have EOTM champ grind pluse frost gorge sound one, people make a lot of gold by farming like 6+ hours a day and level toon to 80 in 3-4 hours using crafting never seen such thing in any one of those triple A mmos this is unique to gw2 and you also got pvp now days to level your toon or alt and make gold at same time. so you are whining on this part.
as for new players, for god sake let them get out there and enjoy the world and get their world completion there is way too many farm fest in this game already.

Tman.6349:

I have literally met lvl 80s with <4% Map Completion…

That’s nothing special. My Mesmer (not my main) was lvld up to 80 ONLY in Queensdale. Without participating in the champ train, just by doing dailies and nothing else. I just wanted to see how long it would take to lvl to 80 only via dailies.

If someone enjoys doing stupid stuff like that – why not? After lvling up several characters the “correct” way, it gets boring :-)

Wow, a lot happens in a few hours of sleep and work. A lot of people responded with similar comments, but I’m going to quote this one in full to hit points off ASAP.

frans.8092:

Ceno.1763:

There are, however, four problems with this change, all of which I’ll go into in detail as best I can. They are as follows:

• A massive hit to Economic Action (or Economic Movement, if you prefer that term)

Blah-blah; a statement that can neither be proven nor disproved. Farm elsewhere and get loot just the same.

• A not-inconsiderable hit to getting new players/alts to higher levels quickly and easily (no one wants to stay in the starter zones for an eternity, and the trains were a fine way of getting you up to level 30 fast)

There are tomes to get characters to level 20. I have them in surplus….

• A detrimental effect on the game’s presentation to new players (difficulty, opportunity, necessity of teamwork, etc.)

Nonsense, there was no train when I explored Queensdale with my main, when she was level 10 and the absence of the train was definitely not detrimental. I think it is, or was, the other way around.

• A clear and fundamental shift from what Guild Wars 2 prided itself on offering apart from other MMORPGs: a cross-world experience for all players, young and old, that would be made available and enjoyable to players regardless of their in-game level.

Removing end-game content from a starter zone is hardly a ‘fundamental shift’.

Champ trains do not belong in starter zones, where people are trying to get familiar with their characters, the game mechanics, where they experience the stories and the lore.

1.) I didn’t make this clear in the OP but I did address the issue in the comments; the primary economic impact will come from the fact that new players (1-20ish) cannot as easily put their hands in the market since they do not have access to the train to sell their greens. For you and me, we experienced folk, no, it won’t have a significant effect on us, but it will change the way new players are “allowed” to play the game.

2.) Tomes are account-bound, I believe, so
Eh, the point I was going to make here was stupid and probably wrong anyways, so not going to bother with it.

3. and 4.) My response here addresses the misconception that most people have about these problems. I am NOT arguing in support of the existence of trains in starting zones (in these arguments). I am, however, arguing that champions in starter zones contributed TREMENDOUSLY to the quality and presentation of the game. Trains = end-game content? Sure, fine, different conversation for a different time. But champions should not be end-game content. They should be a challenge readily available to all players, new and veterans alike.

More specifically, to address the 4th point; the “fundamental shift” was in removing the potential for desire of bringing old, end-game players into starter zones. This was an initial intent of Guild Wars 2. Granted, we still have Shadow Behemoth and Fire Elemental every couple of hours, but that’s far beside the point.

There are still a few champs in the starter zones (Oakheart in Queensdale – should have been troll or boar or centaur – and effigy in Ashford come to mind), and the second zones are filled with champs.