Guild Wars 2

Well I understand the 875 power and condition are a bit much.
When Might has been stacked once the proposed might nerf comes in some changes will occur in DPS and condition damage I’ll try to list and show it.

But when reviewing this I noticed a few things:

Might is being stacked more efficiently nowadays, Phalanx strength being one of the things and efficient use of fire and blast combo’s have rendered the 0 might dungeon party all but extinct. In effect raising the damage a bit.

The extreme focus on zerker gear makes this happen. This change further enhances the use of zerker armor to maintain DPS… I am not against the zerker meta, but I do find this a shame in view of other stats.

Now for a few concrete questions AFTER these examples:

Might affects both power and condition damage. While some people are ranting this is a 15% nerf, well it is a below 6% nerf in power cases, low power and or conditions will however be hit worse. ( as are ranger pets) In fact all stats combos using power or condition damage as major stat will be hit relatively light. All combo’s using power and condition as MINOR stat will be hit worse.

Some examples, traits are used, but not food, actual use of food and utilities will further decrease the loss of the -buffed- stat with respect to might

Exotic ranger (sinister 0/6/4/0/4) focus on condi runes (trapper sb/ a&t):
1600 power + 875 = 2475 will be 1600 + 750 = 2350 power= 5 % reduction
1430 condi + 875 = 2305 wil be 1430 + 750 = 2180 condition= 5.5% reduction
Pet of ranger (example: reef drake) (traited for 350 condition dmg in combat)
1918 power + 875 = 2793 will be 1918 + 750= 2668 power = 4.5% reduction
350 condi + 875 =1225 will be 350 + 750 =1100 condition dmg = 10.3% reduction

Pug carrier zerk (4/4/0/6/0) mark up includes empower allies and banner(, no food/utilities)
2479 power + 1195 = 3674 will be 2479 + 1070 = 3549 power = 3.5% nerf
(200 condi + 1045 = 1245 will be 200 + 920 =1120 condition = 10% nerf)

Condi mesmer (0/5/5/0/4) (while it cannot stack it’s own might it’s just for comparison
1843 condi + 875 = 2718 will be 1843 + 750 = 2593 = 4.6% nerf
(926 power + 875 = 1801 will be 926 + 750 = 1676 = 7% nerf)

Warrior S/S sinister Hybrid (2/6/0/4/2) mark up includes empower allies and banner(, no food/utilities)
2047 power + 1195 = 3242 will be 2047 + 1070 = 3127 power = 3.6% nerf
(1312 condi + 1045 =2357 will be 1312 + 920 =2232 condition = 5.4% nerf)

Showing POWER builds when having power as main stat Zerk/Soldiers wil be less affected by this nerf then other builds (with power and condition damage as minor stats or using both ), while condition damage will be nerfed more percentage wise as their base stats -even as major stat- due to scaling from 0

The mesmer I showed has a quite high (wel could have been higher if I’d taken runes of the undead) condition damage which is higher then most condition builds WILL run! Making the effect on conditions due to the might nerf more extreme in many or all cases comparted to the example listed above.

The lower the actual damage base stat was the higher this nerf will be, forcing people to go ZERK
The hybrid ranger with pet will be doubly hit as it also depends on condition damage from itself and it’s Pet and both have been reduced by up to 10%

Actual questions

Low power (knights, clerics,rampager) builds and low condition (Rampager again?) build will be hit harder by this change then high power (full zerk or soldier ) or high condition (sinister/rabid/dire) builds are? Now seeing this reduction is 3% for high end power but 5+% for lower power builds AND 5% condition damage for hign condition builds and up to 8% for low condtion builds. Isn’t it wise to reconsider the nerf to might ?

How are you going to compensate for the bigger the average reduction In condition dmg, as condition dmg will be hit harder then power?? Especially in PvE? Even though some conditions are buffed a bit?

Will you improve base condition damage (or at least the trait?) for pets?
Condition using builds which are dependant on might would be very thankfull, also seeing pets hit about as much as enemies in PvE, so not very often… and the pet traits are weak as is.

Will conditions scaling formula’s be improved for use in PvE? IF so this would compensate for both the additional reduction and it would allow for more use of conditions in PvE.

The example of confusion being buffed is a great start to be honest.

This happened before – they’re not going to compensate for it.

Hybrid builds were hit the hardest when the Ferocity changes came. Their overall goal seems to be making it harder and harder to kill things fast across the board.

Harper.4173:

This happened before – they’re not going to compensate for it.

Hybrid builds were hit the hardest when the Ferocity changes came. Their overall goal seems to be making it harder and harder to kill things fast across the board.

*But why make it harder for builds using power and/or condition as a MINOR stat, and not nearly as much for builds who use pwr/cnd dmg as a Major stat???

You will not change much for optimized DPS/Condition builds???
Only for support and tanky builds it will be a big(ger) nerf… Focussing everybody to use extreme DPS (and(/or) DOT) builds….

My thoughts? Because builds that use power and condition as a minor stat get another benefit.

Using Knight’s? You’ve got a lot of toughness – so the trade-off between a zerker and knight’s wearer will be bigger.

You’ll get less damage for the added defense.

Yes – it forces people to optimize even further. Those who want to and feel like it will. Those who don’t won’t.

Harper.4173:

My thoughts? Because builds that use power and condition as a minor stat get another benefit. Please tell me more about the benefits for rampager…

Using Knight’s? You’ve got a lot of toughness – so the trade-off between a zerker and knight’s wearer will be bigger. There was already a big difference, this will only get out of proportion

You’ll get EVEN less damage for the added defense. Just remember though damage scales with power, precision, ferocity, traits, sigils, food and utilities up to 4 times, while armor scales to a maximum of 1.2 times. Speccing in armor is an illusion, at least in PvE.
On the positive, lesser damage will make toughness a bit more important, but mostly in people’s head

Yes – it forces people to optimize even further. Those who want to and feel like it will. Those who don’t won’t.

I’ll correct ^

That’s a big comfort for ascended knights, clerics, rampager, sentinel running people, who are shown again and again: in the end the zerk meta will again reign triomfantly, showing again A-Net should just remove everything not being zerk -meta- in the first place…

Harper.4173:

. Their overall goal seems to be making it harder and harder to kill things fast across the board.

This in a nut shell.

Reinforces zerker meta, and means pugs will be even more kick-happy with non zerks. Its gonna hit the “average player” hardest.

But hey, the general reinforcement of learn-2-play or gtfo is fine with me, game too casual friendly.

Of course it means dungeons/fractals are even less profitable due to taking longer ( in like for like teams), making them even more out of wack compared to afk zerg spam2win loot fests. But it seems only a minority of active players still care anything other than these afk loot baths.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Harper.4173:

My thoughts? Because builds that use power and condition as a minor stat get another benefit. Please tell me more about the benefits for rampager…

Using Knight’s? You’ve got a lot of toughness – so the trade-off between a zerker and knight’s wearer will be bigger. There was already a big difference, this will only get out of proportion

You’ll get EVEN less damage for the added defense. Just remember though damage scales with power, precision, ferocity, traits, sigils, food and utilities up to 4 times, while armor scales to a maximum of 1.2 times. Speccing in armor is an illusion, at least in PvE.

Yes – it forces people to optimize even further. Those who want to and feel like it will. Those who don’t won’t.

I’ll correct ^

That’s a big comfort for ascended knights, clerics, rampager, sentinel running people, who are shown again and again: in the end the zerk meta will again reign triomfantly, showing again A-Net should just remove everything not being zerk -meta- in the first place…

Rampager gets more precision. More crits – more procs for on-crit effects.

They’re making the gap between specs that choose power as their main and specs that use something else bigger.
The trade-off is now more of a thing. I don’t know how else to explain this.

The “out of proportion” you mention is just your opinion. I don’t feel it would be out of proportion and a lot of others agree.

Speccing in armor in a game that wants you to avoid, block, dodge and position yourself in order to not eat damage is at most a crutch.
Speccing for armor was never designed to be viable in GW2’s PVE because the whole concept of the game revolves around organic combat where you move and avoid and time your defenses instead of standing still – being hit – and just not caring.

Armor in this game is designed to give you more wiggle room – to be able to eat 2-3-4 extra hits instead of dying on the first.
This is done to compensate for not all players having the same skill level, physical capacity or reflexes.

Harper.4173:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Harper.4173:

My thoughts? Because builds that use power and condition as a minor stat get another benefit. Please tell me more about the benefits for rampager…

Using Knight’s? You’ve got a lot of toughness – so the trade-off between a zerker and knight’s wearer will be bigger. There was already a big difference, this will only get out of proportion

You’ll get EVEN less damage for the added defense. Just remember though damage scales with power, precision, ferocity, traits, sigils, food and utilities up to 4 times, while armor scales to a maximum of 1.2 times. Speccing in armor is an illusion, at least in PvE.

Yes – it forces people to optimize even further. Those who want to and feel like it will. Those who don’t won’t.

I’ll correct ^

That’s a big comfort for ascended knights, clerics, rampager, sentinel running people, who are shown again and again: in the end the zerk meta will again reign triomfantly, showing again A-Net should just remove everything not being zerk -meta- in the first place…

Rampager gets more precision. More crits – more procs for on-crit effects.

They’re making the gap between specs that choose power as their main and specs that use something else bigger.
The trade-off is now more of a thing. I don’t know how else to explain this.

The “out of proportion” you mention is just your opinion. I don’t feel it would be out of proportion and a lot of others agree.

Speccing in armor in a game that wants you to avoid, block, dodge and position yourself in order to not eat damage is at most a crutch.
Speccing for armor was never designed to be viable in GW2’s PVE because the whole concept of the game revolves around organic combat where you move and avoid and time your defenses instead of standing still – being hit – and just not caring.

Armor in this game is designed to give you more wiggle room – to be able to eat 2-3-4 extra hits instead of dying on the first.
This is done to compensate for not all players having the same skill level, physical capacity or reflexes.

Well IMHO precision doesn’t change in this instance due to might balancing,
The effects on armor are there due to less damage in the damage calculation formula. It will be buffed even a bit further due to the fact condition dmg gets a small nerf, and as condi dmg is fullly armor ignoring this will aid generally everybody in a defensive sense.

I’m afraid this will only encourage more and more the “Zerker War or kick” meta. Now days if you have like 3 wars and 1 of them is phalax you can easily fill rest of the party
with what ever classes, just so you can start the dungeon alrdy… Coz you know you have high enough DPS to run it with no problem.

“Speccing for armor was never designed to be viable in GW2’s PVE because the whole concept of the game revolves around organic combat where you move and avoid and time your defenses instead of standing still – being hit – and just not caring”

Duno about that coz some skills especially Symbols, Wells or even Shouts etc… Force you to group in one spot. And because of that and the fact that in heavy armor you can benefit from those while not dying in 1 hit Stacking Warriors is the way 2 go.
Only TimeWarp has a decent range that allows you 2 doge easily and not move out from it.

Alvagon.8710:

I’m afraid this will only encourage more and more the “Zerker War or kick” meta. Now days if you have like 3 wars and 1 of them is phalax you can easily fill rest of the party
with what ever classes, just so you can start the dungeon alrdy… Coz you know you have high enough DPS to run it with no problem.

“Speccing for armor was never designed to be viable in GW2’s PVE because the whole concept of the game revolves around organic combat where you move and avoid and time your defenses instead of standing still – being hit – and just not caring”

Duno about that coz some skills especially Symbols, Wells or even Shouts etc… Force you to group in one spot. And because of that and the fact that in heavy armor you can benefit from those while not dying in 1 hit Stacking Warriors is the way 2 go.
Only TimeWarp has a decent range that allows you 2 doge easily and not move out from it.

Having more than 1 warrior is actually not very productive. Warriors in dps specs self might stack. Adding a PS war would then result in overlap.

Better to take 2 eles/thieves and 1 ps war usually. Especially since they have much needed utility (multiple banners is also pointless overlap for example) like blinds, or frost bows, or water fields. Not to mention they out dps warriors if played correctly.

Team composition is important because of things like this.

Edit:
Symbols – meh.
Wells – lol.

Staying in friendly aoe while avoiding enemy aoe is about learning to place aoes and understanding tactical positioning better. L2P issue.

Alvagon.8710:

I’m afraid this will only encourage more and more the “Zerker War or kick” meta. Now days if you have like 3 wars and 1 of them is phalax you can easily fill rest of the party
with what ever classes, just so you can start the dungeon alrdy… Coz you know you have high enough DPS to run it with no problem.

“Speccing for armor was never designed to be viable in GW2’s PVE because the whole concept of the game revolves around organic combat where you move and avoid and time your defenses instead of standing still – being hit – and just not caring”

Duno about that coz some skills especially Symbols, Wells or even Shouts etc… Force you to group in one spot. And because of that and the fact that in heavy armor you can benefit from those while not dying in 1 hit Stacking Warriors is the way 2 go.
Only TimeWarp has a decent range that allows you 2 doge easily and not move out from it.

The whole " group in one spot" thing is relative – the range on a lot of these is big.
GW2 was never intended for players to stand still. Even in a small area you can still dodge around and run in circles and remain on the move while still in that same small area.

Stacking Warriors is the way to go only if your party is terribly bad. There’s no excuse for needing a warrior to stay alive in GW2 right now given that the game has been out so long there’s an abundance of guides to make you improve your game and learn the encounters to the point where you don’t need to be a warrior to survive.

Your general post makes me feel you don’t have such a great understanding of the game.

So at risk of drifting this further off topic:

https://whyigame.wordpress.com/the-beginners-guide-to-movement-in-combat-guild-wars-2/

One such guide to help you stay alive regardless of class.

I all comes down too efficiency ,and type of the encounter yes you can doge and runn all day long but at the same time your DPS is going down hard coz your not attacking. Staying inside a symbol is not a easy task and those are Combo Fields witch grant you additional benefits. And yes Party composition is important with 1 guard and 1 phalax war you can pull the max DPS that warriors can do and maintain it.

Alvagon.8710:

I all comes down too efficiency ,and type of the encounter yes you can doge and runn all day long but at the same time your DPS is going down hard coz your not attacking. Staying inside a symbol is not a easy task and those are Combo Fields witch grant you additional benefits. And yes Party composition is important with 1 guard and 1 phalax war you can pull the max DPS that warriors can do and maintain it.

Moving around =/= not attacking. If this is the case for you, rethink the way in which you move in combat.

A guard is not required for dps. Guards are there for survivability – and to compensate for others making mistakes – which can, and will happen even amongst the best of players.
Also a PS war does not achieve max personal dps. far from it.

Staying inside of helpful aoe fields may not be easy for you, but that is a learn to play problem.

“Moving around =/= not attacking. If this is the case for you, rethink the way in which you move in combat.”

“I all comes down too efficiency ,and type of the encounter”
Wariors do not max dps with bow or rifle and some bosses drop aoe direct under them.

“A guard is not required for dps. Guards are there for survivability – and to compensate for others making mistakes – which can, and will happen even amongst the best of players.”

Guard is there for Condi removal, block projectals if needed, Timewarps, Boons
Wars have trait that gives 1% dmg for boon and guards max it out… while keep them making dps… +150 Toughnes etc….

“Also a PS war does not achieve max personal dps. far from it.”
They are there for maxing might and Vulnerability.

I highly doubt PvE was even remotely considered with the changes coming to might, I basically stemmed from the need to tone down the might-stacking celestial built spvp elementalist and engineers which came to dominate that mode of play. For the sake of transparency between the mode the change got considered.

Then they decide to up the damage on confusion with sounds like a buff, but in fact is going to just favor creatures that use confusion over players as they still do no swing fast (nor stop attack for the desire to avoid the damage) enough to really make confusion more that an ’if it happens ok, but nothing to count on/build around for the player side of PvE.

Bran.7425:

I highly doubt PvE was even remotely considered with the changes coming to might, I basically stemmed from the need to tone down the might-stacking celestial built spvp elementalist and engineers

This. If you think this change has anything to do with PvE, then i have a bridge to sell you.

Because, like, you know, e-Sports!

Alvagon.8710:

Guard is there for snip. +150 Toughnes etc….

I highly suggest you go away and learn the meta before commenting further.

Heres something to help you get started:
http://dulfy.net/2014/08/25/gw2-guardian-pve-class-guide-by-bordy/#Builds

@PaxTheGreatOne you forgot that each condition has it’s own base damage that is not affected by stats.

You could translate those stats to base ‘condition damage’ just by dividing that damage through the modifier. This results in: bleeding 850, burning 1312, confusion 867, poison 840, torment 850 all at level 80. Most conditions have base stat around 850 (with the exception of burning which is funny since in most celestial specs burning is the main condition).

So it might be enough to boost every base condition damage to 926.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Will conditions scaling formula’s be improved for use in PvE?

Ferocity was a big change. The dust has settled. This Might change is a tweak. Significant, but a tweak. What should have coincided with this Might nerf is a proper fix to the Condition cap in PvE in order to foster diversity and potentially offset the, uh, weakcreep (usually it’s powercreep designers need to keep in check) we’re seeing.

That would be something to hang this Balance updates cap on. But hey, it’s only been almost two and a half years that ANet have been working on that issue without a single ingame thing to show for it.

“Guard is there for snip. +150 Toughnes etc….”

Its not a quote its manipulation of my post.

“The whole " group in one spot" thing is relative – the range on a lot of these is big.
GW2 was never intended for players to stand still. Even in a small area you can still dodge around and run in circles and remain on the move while still in that same small area.
Stacking Warriors is the way to go only if your party is terribly bad. There’s no excuse for needing a warrior to stay alive in GW2 right now given that the game has been out so long there’s an abundance of guides to make you improve your game and learn the encounters to the point where you don’t need to be a warrior to survive."

My posts are about maximizing DPS and efficiency of dungeon clearing and why Zerker Warriors are the best choice for that in a scenario of 3 Zerk wars 1 Phalax war and 1 Guard, the Guard fills the role of Buffer, Healer, Protector, (Mesmer as he provides quickness to all nearby allies). In witch case Stacking is a tool just too do it even faster…

“A guard is not required for dps. Guards are there for survivability – and to compensate for others making mistakes – which can, and will happen even amongst the best of players.”

Exactly that i just wrote it detail what his job is…

“Guard is there for Condi removal, block projectals if needed, Timewarps, Boons
Wars have trait that gives 1% dmg for boon and guards max it out… while keep them making dps… +150 Toughnes etc….”

So i do not understand ?
“I highly suggest you go away and learn the meta before commenting further.”

cafard.8953:

Bran.7425:

I highly doubt PvE was even remotely considered with the changes coming to might, I basically stemmed from the need to tone down the might-stacking celestial built spvp elementalist and engineers

This. If you think this change has anything to do with PvE, then i have a bridge to sell you.

Because, like, you know, e-Sports!

Yea and we drifted out of the topic of might xD

As for e-Sports and PvP in this game i hope it DIES so they maybe start treating the game as One, instead of 3 different mods.

Alvagon.8710:

Exactly that i just wrote it detail what his job is…

“Guard is there for Condi removal, block projectals if needed, Timewarps, Boons
Wars have trait that gives 1% dmg for boon and guards max it out… while keep them making dps… +150 Toughnes etc….”

You are saying guardians are taking the 150 toughness trait. Please go away and learn guardian meta. You do not know it.

Alvagon.8710:

“Guard is there for snip. +150 Toughnes etc….”

My posts are about maximizing DPS and efficiency of dungeon clearing and why Zerker Warriors are the best choice for that in a scenario of 3 Zerk wars 1 Phalax war and 1 Guard, the Guard fills the role of Buffer, Healer, Protector, (Mesmer as he provides quickness to all nearby allies). In witch case Stacking is a tool just too do it even faster…

You are talking about “maximizing DPS and efficiency”
Yet talk about multiple warriors.

You do not know the meta at all. Please go away and learn it before commenting on it.

You talk about guardians having the “healer role”
In fact you don’t really understand how the combat system works.
I’m bored of trying to explain things to you, because evidently you are unwilling to learn.
Have fun trying to play gw2 like wow.

Don’t need so many zerkwars. Optimised groups run 1x zerkwar 1x S/F ele 1x zerkthief 1x zerkguard 1x zerkbombengi/assassin-zerkmes.

While it’s less suboptimal than 5x necros, 4x wars 1x guard is nowhere near optimal.

Whether or not it’s ‘meta’, defining ‘meta’ as ‘most popular party composition’, that would depend greatly on your timezone, chosen content and/or your guild’s preferences, but popularity does not necessarily make things optimal.

Hayashi.3416:

Don’t need so many zerkwars. Optimised groups run 1x zerkwar 1x S/F ele 1x zerkthief 1x zerkguard 1x zerkbombengi/assassin-zerkmes.

While it’s less suboptimal than 5x necros, 4x wars 1x guard is nowhere near optimal.

Whether or not it’s ‘meta’, defining ‘meta’ as ‘most popular party composition’, that would depend greatly on your timezone, chosen content and/or your guild’s preferences, but popularity does not necessarily make things optimal.

Thats why there called optimized not maximized

Hayashi.3416:

Don’t need so many zerkwars. Optimised groups run 1x zerkwar 1x S/F ele 1x zerkthief 1x zerkguard 1x zerkbombengi/assassin-zerkmes.

While it’s less suboptimal than 5x necros, 4x wars 1x guard is nowhere near optimal.

Whether or not it’s ‘meta’, defining ‘meta’ as ‘most popular party composition’, that would depend greatly on your timezone, chosen content and/or your guild’s preferences, but popularity does not necessarily make things optimal.

orly?
These guys don’t. They seem pretty “optimized” in this here run.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/iV-The-Ruined-City-of-Arah-Path-4-18-55/first#post4685592

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Hayashi.3416:

Don’t need so many zerkwars. Optimised groups run 1x zerkwar 1x S/F ele 1x zerkthief 1x zerkguard 1x zerkbombengi/assassin-zerkmes.

While it’s less suboptimal than 5x necros, 4x wars 1x guard is nowhere near optimal.

Whether or not it’s ‘meta’, defining ‘meta’ as ‘most popular party composition’, that would depend greatly on your timezone, chosen content and/or your guild’s preferences, but popularity does not necessarily make things optimal.

orly?
These guys don’t. They seem pretty “optimized” in this here run.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/iV-The-Ruined-City-of-Arah-Path-4-18-55/first#post4685592

hahahahah the dps on that war is so low that its funny you don’t even hold 25 stack of Vul… on normal mobs…

That’s kind of the point of the changes OP…

Currently you can wear full defense gear, with full defensive traits and still do a crap ton of dmg since might is so OP… it is supposed to be a tradeoff. If you spec for full defense then you are supposed to do next to no damage. This is fixing that to bring the risk/reward structure back in line.

Alvagon.8710:

Yea and we drifted out of the topic of might xD

As for e-Sports and PvP in this game i hope it DIES so they maybe start treating the game as One, instead of 3 different mods.

Unfortunately they feel they are treating the game as one game, even though the majority of balance concerns/design elements are directed toward spvp.

If you look at the game as whole it is like they and one group that was very story driven and world building, but then they handed the entirety of the work on the engine of the game to the pvp team and then the PvE/WvW designers are stuck trying to apply workarounds to get the game functioning.

Alvagon.8710:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Hayashi.3416:

Don’t need so many zerkwars. Optimised groups run 1x zerkwar 1x S/F ele 1x zerkthief 1x zerkguard 1x zerkbombengi/assassin-zerkmes.

While it’s less suboptimal than 5x necros, 4x wars 1x guard is nowhere near optimal.

Whether or not it’s ‘meta’, defining ‘meta’ as ‘most popular party composition’, that would depend greatly on your timezone, chosen content and/or your guild’s preferences, but popularity does not necessarily make things optimal.

orly?
These guys don’t. They seem pretty “optimized” in this here run.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/iV-The-Ruined-City-of-Arah-Path-4-18-55/first#post4685592

hahahahah the dps on that war is so low that its funny you don’t even hold 25 stack of Vul… on normal mobs…

trolololol lololol

Ok, lets see your sub 19 minute arah p4 then

But yeah. Might nerf just expands the divide between phiw and meta type builds.

Thank you for bringing the topic back on track.

Whatever your party setup is doesn’t really matter to me. The fact 2 warriors is too much isn’t a problem in this thread, As we are only talking about might and the effects of reducing might from 35 points to 30 points a stack.

Even though the effects are relatively minor compared to the change from critical damage to ferocity (well in effect it was a 15% nerf in most cases) there is an effect nevertheless.

PROBLEM WITH THIS CHANGE IS THE FOLLOWING FACT:
BUILDS WITH A LOWER BASE POWER OR CONDITION DAMAGE WILL BE HIT HARDER COMPARED TO HIGH POWER/HIGH CONDITION BUILDS.

Might was intended to raise power and condition damage for builds which were less powerfull. In fact Might does add the same power for low and high power/condition damage builds, BUT percentage wise a low power/condition build will benefit more.
and thus will be hit harder.

This all seems to me to be an attempt at prolonging game play. I recently just crafted a full set of knights ascended gear. Took me 25 days. Sure I could have spent the 16 gold to buy some of the mats but wtf? Why reduce might? What sort of consequences has it created? It hasnt been game breaking by any means. Although the base might stats of my knights gear isnt getting a nerf, overall anything with a might stat attached to it is getting a nerf. People will adapt but overall this seems like a rather sad attempt and increasing game play duration by 15% rather than a might nerf. Seriously, you want me to run the same dungeon ive done over a 100 times over for fun? Get real. I do it for the easy gold. Not to mention fractals! basically saying kitten you.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

PROBLEM WITH THIS CHANGE IS THE FOLLOWING FACT:
BUILDS WITH A LOWER BASE POWER OR CONDITION DAMAGE WILL BE HIT HARDER COMPARED TO HIGH POWER/HIGH CONDITION BUILDS.

Which is exactly what they’re looking for.
The change is completely focused on sPvP and tries to nerf bunkerish builds that achieve quite decent damage potential through might stacking, spècially celestial ones that use both direct and condition damage.

Why does the change hit PvE too? Because outside of some unexpected mechanics that had shown to be extremely powerful, they’ve never cared about PvE balance at all. When the content is designed for almost any build / team composition to easily succeed, it’s not like some minor changes are going to bring any serious problem.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Thank you for bringing the topic back on track.

Whatever your party setup is doesn’t really matter to me. The fact 2 warriors is too much isn’t a problem in this thread, As we are only talking about might and the effects of reducing might from 35 points to 30 points a stack.

Even though the effects are relatively minor compared to the change from critical damage to ferocity (well in effect it was a 15% nerf in most cases) there is an effect nevertheless.

PROBLEM WITH THIS CHANGE IS THE FOLLOWING FACT:
BUILDS WITH A LOWER BASE POWER OR CONDITION DAMAGE WILL BE HIT HARDER COMPARED TO HIGH POWER/HIGH CONDITION BUILDS.

Might was intended to raise power and condition damage for builds which were less powerfull. In fact Might does add the same power for low and high power/condition damage builds, BUT percentage wise a low power/condition build will benefit more.
and thus will be hit harder.

And how do you know that this effect of hitting some builds harder isn’t intended? Why do you presume the devs didn’t actually want to do this? Builds that specialize should have more than builds who want to do it all.

Also that last part about might – you just made it up.I never remember the devs telling us anything about what they intended each boon does and how they envision it works in the grand scheme of the game.

I can do it too:

Might was designed so higher power builds benefit more and lower power builds benefit less and the current implementation is buggy. Right off the top of my head.

Basically i can see 2 changes less power more condi-damage next to increased buffs for thieves.

The thief isn’t powerfull enough yet it seems.

I wonder if the devs play any other profession than thieves.

Harper.4173:

I can do it too:

Might was designed so higher power builds benefit more and lower power builds benefit less and the current implementation is buggy. Right off the top of my head.

Higher power builds do NOT benefit more. They can raise the cap the same amount for low power and high power, but the effects fore a high power build are lower due to the fact the amount of difference it makes is lower

Base dmg formula

skill dmg = base dmg + ((skill multiplier*power*weapon dmg)/armor)

1000 power: 100 + (.5*1000*1000)/1000 = 600
1875 power: 100 + (.5*1875*1000)/1000 = 1037

2000 power: 100 + (.5*2000*1000)/1000 =1100
2875 power: 100 + (.5*2875*1000)/1000 = 1537

3000 power: 100 + (.5*3000*1000)/1000 =1600
3875 power: 100 + (.5*3875*1000)/1000 = 2037

In this case though all buffs make the damage scale 437 points
the percentile increase due to might on the base damage is quite different

1000 power 1037/600 * 100 =172.8% raise of dmg by might
2000 power1537/1100 * 100 =139.7% raise of dmg by might
3000 power 2037/1600 * 100 = 127.2% raise of dmg by might

Showing might is more beneficial for low power builds. (though this is a somewhat extreme example.)

now lets see what happens if we nerf might

1000 power: 100 + (.5*1000*1000)/1000 = 600
1875 power: 100 + (.5*1875*1000)/1000 = 975

2000 power: 100 + (.5*2000*1000)/1000 =1100
2750 power: 100 + (.5*2750*1000)/1000 = 1475

3000 power: 100 + (.5*3000*1000)/1000 =1600
3750 power: 100 + (.5*3750*1000)/1000 = 1975

In this case though all buffs make the damage scale 375 points
the percentile increase due to might on the base damage is quite different

1000 power 975/600 * 100 =162.5% raise of dmg by might
2000 power1475/1100 * 100 =134.1% raise of dmg by might
3000 power 1975/1600 * 100 = 123.5% raise of dmg by might

1000 power old 1037/600 * 100 =172.8% raise of dmg by might
1000 power new 975/600 * 100 =162.5% raise of dmg by might
difference: 10.3% effect due to nerf

2000 power old 1537/1100 * 100 =139.7% raise of dmg by might
2000 power new 1475/1100 * 100 =134.1% raise of dmg by might
difference: 5.6% effect due to nerf

3000 power old: 2037/1600 * 100 = 127.2% raise of dmg by might
3000 power new : 1975/1600 * 100 = 123.5% raise of dmg by might
difference: 3.7% effect due to nerf

Of course this will vary a bit due to skill base and skill coefficents, but the trend should be clear.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

1000 power old 1037/600 * 100 =172.8% raise of dmg by might
1000 power new 975/600 * 100 =162.5% raise of dmg by might
difference: 10.3% effect due to nerf

2000 power old 1537/1100 * 100 =139.7% raise of dmg by might
2000 power new 1475/1100 * 100 =134.1% raise of dmg by might
difference: 5.6% effect due to nerf

3000 power old: 2037/1600 * 100 = 127.2% raise of dmg by might
3000 power new : 1975/1600 * 100 = 123.5% raise of dmg by might
difference: 3.7% effect due to nerf

Of course this will vary a bit due to skill base and skill coefficents, but the trend should be clear.

Its sad you actually had to post the math to make it clear for people.

I know they do not benefit more – you didn’t get the point of my post.

I made that part up – just like you did when you said might was designed so that groups that weren’t going full power would be advantaged.

You have no idea what the developers intended – and they never actually said anything about boons being intended to do this or that.

So all we can do is speculate.
I wanted to show you that just like you can make a statement up because you can so can I. So i made that statement up.

I understand your math is sound – I was simply pointing out how easy it is to pull facts out of thin air – like you yourself like to do.

Harper.4173:

I know they do not benefit more – you didn’t get the point of my post.

I made that part up – just like you did when you said might was designed so that groups that weren’t going full power would be advantaged.

You have no idea what the developers intended – and they never actually said anything about boons being intended to do this or that.

So all we can do is speculate.
I wanted to show you that just like you can make a statement up because you can so can I. So i made that statement up.

I understand your math is sound – I was simply pointing out how easy it is to pull facts out of thin air – like you yourself like to do.

Base dmg formula

skill dmg = base dmg + ((skill multiplier*power*weapon dmg)/armor)

1000 power: 100 + (.5*1000*1000)/1000 = 600
1875 power: 100 + (.5*1875*1000)/1000 = 1037

2000 power: 100 + (.5*2000*1000)/1000 =1100
2875 power: 100 + (.5*2875*1000)/1000 = 1537

3000 power: 100 + (.5*3000*1000)/1000 =1600
3875 power: 100 + (.5*3875*1000)/1000 = 2037

In this case though all buffs make the damage scale 437 points
the percentile increase due to might on the base damage is quite different

1000 power 1037/600 * 100 =172.8% raise of dmg by might
2000 power1537/1100 * 100 =139.7% raise of dmg by might
3000 power 2037/1600 * 100 = 127.2% raise of dmg by might

Showing might is more beneficial for low power builds. (though this is a somewhat extreme example.) (Pls check and see a few posts back.)

So I didn’t grab it out of thin air I guess… I do not make things up.

Might was meant to add power to lower power builds, It is where it’s more effective.

Like a sigil of night will outscale a sigil of bloodlust on a high power character. and a sigil of bloodlust will be more superior on a low power character… same reason…

With a low power character the 250 power will be more effective then +10% of the damage
With a high power character the 250 power will be less effective then + 10% of the damage
(generally bloodlust will be not the most ideal thing , but generally low power builds will carry defensive stats, so they can take some punishment and keep the stacks..)