Guild Wars 2

It’s no secret that when it comes to getting items through RNG, most players have varying degrees of negative feelings towards the idea.

I wanted to put out a “small” post detailing what I think is the solution that works for everyone, ANet and the players.

First, we have to recognize what type of players there are. After some thought, I think these are the most likely.

1. Players who want new skins, but can’t / won’t spend real money for Gem Store items.
2. Players who want skins, and will pay varying degrees of real money for thier chances.
3. Players who don’t want new items.

Now, lets look at the Dragon Bash for example.

ANet has allowed players the chance to find items from dropped coffers, or from purchased coffers (supposedly giving a better chance). This seems like a great solution, but as we have seen, after opening thousands of coffers (purchased or dropped), some players have yet to see anything of value.

What this does is create resentment and guilt among players. It makes players angry and they start to distrust ANet for future purchases.

So what can ANet do?

1. Recognize that not everyone will spend money.

It’s a simple fact that not everyone can, or wants to spend money to buy RNG boxes. No matter how badly they want the new stuff. There is no way to force, persuade, or trick them into spending cash. They simply won’t.

Solution: Offer open world drops from various sources. (Holo, SAB, etc)

This allows these players to participate and have some chance of getting an item. Perfect.

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2. Recognize that some players want to spend money, but have a budget.

There are players out there that have gaming budgets. They will spend this money on games where they feel they will get the biggest return on investment. This can be in the form of a DLC, new game, RNG items, etc.

Solution: Gem Store RNG boxes

If RNG boxes where in the gem store, but the drop rate was such that spending their say, $10 budget would guarantee them at least one ticket, these players would probably take the chance.

They would likely buy them one at a time, hoping to get a drop by spending as little of their monthy budget as possible, but up to and perhaps slightly over the budget if they knew the drop rate was decent.

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3. Recognize that some players have large disposable incomes.

Here is where ANet fails. There are some players out there that just want the items. They don’t want to waste money or time, they just want them. RNG frustrates them because they can spend hundreds of dollars and not get anything.

Solution: Gem Store Items

Putting the items on the gem store, and allowing these people to buy as many versions they want will allow them to avoid the frustration and disappointment from wasting money on RNG.

So, in a nutshell. ANet needs to stop being super greedy. Offer solutions that allow every type of player the opportunity to choose the path that works for them. ANet also needs to start being reasonable with the perceived value of these items and just price them, and set the drop rate accordingly.

In the end they’re just skins. The artificial value ANet puts on them by making them rare only goes so far. Most players will develop negative feelings towards the game if they feel that every month they are spending money and time, and receiving little to nothing in return.

In my opinion, a item skin should be worth about $2-10. The drop rate, and purchase price should reflect this. Any player that spends up to this amount on RNG boxes should receive at least one ticket. Those who outright spend the money to purchase multiple items should just be able to pay the set cost.

Anyway, I hope this changes. I’m so tired of every month being presented with these RNG items and walking away feeling suckered and disappointed. I play games for pleasure, and walking away each month asking myself why I bother, is not a very good for a long term business model.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

ANet needs to stop trying to be super greedy.

i believe you are barking at the wrong tree.

anet does not decides how the gem store works.
ncsoft does.

and no, the RNG boxes system is working just fine as intended.

ncsoft realized that RNG boxes is the best monetization for gw2 PvE and thus ordered anet to focus on that.

if their RNG boxes gem store sales are bad, they would have stopped so after south sun crates.

they will not fix what is not broken in the first place.

and you have no idea how many people are buying the RNG boxes from the gem store.

When the fused weapon stuff came out they must have made a ton selling BL keys comparing to the fixed price tag wintersday skins. I hate RNG boxes and we can hate all we want. Whoever makes these gem item decision will not stop selling them until people stop buying them. There isn’t much more to say to it really.

somewhat related: if people ask me if I still like this game I will say this "Yes, but mostly because I have no gambling problems "

unfortunately I remind the entire gaming community that the original creators of the game no longer own the game. They started the game with a beautiful idea, an idea i didnt mind supporting with money, they even made a manifesto about it, something to behold, something that made me quit many games because I knew the revolution was here.

At some point along the path they felt low in budget, and had to sell the game to the chinese (or some other asian country company, tbh i cant remember), which are characterized for milking their costumers and recycling them once they are done with them, all based on psychological needs that they create, which, tend to work given how weak the average human mind is.

Right now the game is going down the path of the Korean MMOs like Rohan, 2moon, the now difunt Aion and the soon to follow WoW. All those games (among others) which were played by me, and I can tell you this, they milked me enough already, I dont have the biggest budget out there, but right now im not expending another cent in this game. People say; “vote with your wallet” but the thing is, you are screaming into a dark void, while some players like me might stop, the vast mayority doesnt even care, they have too much money in their hands, and only a small part of the community visits the forums.

Right now Im at the same stage I was before this game came out; waiting for the next game. RNG ( precursors, T6 mats, weapon skins) and game balance (tPvP & sPvP) are the death of all games, and Anet is digging their own tomb.

Well, this was going to be a short response, but once again i managed to do a thesis, now back to finishing those work reports due tomorrow or my boss will kill me.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i believe you are barking at the wrong tree.

anet does not decides how the gem store works.
ncsoft does.

From what I know this is not the case and it hardly matters anyway. Whatever happens in the game reflects on arenanet.

As for the OP I agree entirely, I think the skins should be on sale in the gem shop.

Failing that they should have a design philosophy in place that every event should follow that for every RNG reward there should be a way to get it in game via another means eg. using zhaitaffies to buy the skins in the current event.

It is almost beyond a joke that after all the unrest here about RNG that they still go ahead and have events like this where you can only get the reward via RNG.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

First, we have to recognize what type of players there are. After some thought, I think these are the most likely.

1. Players who want new skins, but can’t / won’t spend real money for Gem Store items.
2. Players who want skins, and will pay varying degrees of real money for thier chances.
3. Players who don’t want new items.

You have missed one important group: Players who want skins, and will pay varying degrees of real money for them, but will not pay for a “chance”
And that’s actually quite a big group.

Astralporing.1957:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

First, we have to recognize what type of players there are. After some thought, I think these are the most likely.

1. Players who want new skins, but can’t / won’t spend real money for Gem Store items.
2. Players who want skins, and will pay varying degrees of real money for thier chances.
3. Players who don’t want new items.

You have missed one important group: Players who want skins, and will pay varying degrees of real money for them, but will not pay for a “chance”
And that’s actually quite a big group.

You’re absolutely correct. I was kinda hoping number two covered that, but you’re right.

I’m just going to be that guy and say if you want to solve RNG – remove it

@Crazylegsmurphy nice constructive post.

@Fortus unfortunately that is so true.

GW2 largest reward content is mostly cosmetic and should be available via a variety of methods and not only via RL cash gamble boxes.

Regardless of whether it’s Anet or NCSOFT calling the shots, I heartily agree with the OP. More options for players, while still keeping the money-milking around for the company… Seems like a win/win.

RNG boxes aren’t going anywhere folks, all of the nonsub games are doing those now and yes they will improve slightly the drops from the ones you can get in the game but they will never go away because all of the nonsub games are doing it and it’s a proven method of making money.

the real concern comes from whether they’ll pour that money back into this game instead of the others under NCsoft’s belt.

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

It’s no secret that when it comes to getting items through RNG, most players have varying degrees of negative feelings towards the idea.

This is actually not the case. I have no negative feelings at all about getting items through RNG. In fact, I like it this way. I know quite a few friends who feel the same way. And if I know several, there are many, many more who feel the same as I do. Human nature is that those who are unhappy (like those that do not like RNG) are vocal about what they don’t like. People who don’t care or are happy with things, generally don’t say anything. So I would say that most players do not have varying degrees of negative feelings about RNG skin acquisitions, but there are those who are indeed very vocal about their dislike. I wouldn’t say they are a majority however.

Which also brings me to this:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

Astralporing.1957:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

First, we have to recognize what type of players there are. After some thought, I think these are the most likely.

1. Players who want new skins, but can’t / won’t spend real money for Gem Store items.
2. Players who want skins, and will pay varying degrees of real money for thier chances.
3. Players who don’t want new items.

You have missed one important group: Players who want skins, and will pay varying degrees of real money for them, but will not pay for a “chance”
And that’s actually quite a big group.

You’re absolutely correct. I was kinda hoping number two covered that, but you’re right.

There are the two other categories I listed above.

1. Players who do not care one way or another that they have to acquire these skins through RNG means.
2. Players who like taking chances trying to get skins, etc. through RNG means.

Greed wins out…….always……all they care about is your money…Remember business is business.

Honestly, it’s this type of thing that causes me to dislike F2P models. I would MUCH prefer a straight forward subscription based model where gimmicks like this aren’t necessary.

Not to mention F2P props up poor games that simply failed to grab a real market…in other words, it artificially makes bad games financially viable.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

ANet needs to stop trying to be super greedy.

i believe you are barking at the wrong tree.

anet does not decides how the gem store works.
ncsoft does.

and no, the RNG boxes system is working just fine as intended.

ncsoft realized that RNG boxes is the best monetization for gw2 PvE and thus ordered anet to focus on that.

if their RNG boxes gem store sales are bad, they would have stopped so after south sun crates.

they will not fix what is not broken in the first place.

and you have no idea how many people are buying the RNG boxes from the gem store.

Well put and to add, the f2p/b2p crowd that are anti sub models need to wake up. You guys have a few choices in this non sub fotm mmos – f2p+sub perks (ie: rift/swtor), Rental items, RNG, and P2win…..make your choice.

One player can spend $100 at a click of a button, this is equal to almost seven other players paying a sub for one month.

Phaedryn.3698:

Honestly, it’s this type of thing that causes me to dislike F2P models. I would MUCH prefer a straight forward subscription based model where gimmicks like this aren’t necessary.

Not to mention F2P props up poor games that simply failed to grab a real market…in other words, it artificially makes bad games financially viable.

That’s just it, I would expect this kind of game-play with the gem-store items and the RNG drops from a F2P game but not GW2 which is B2P. When it starts being a P2W game that’s when I most likely will bid ANET adieu and say it’s been a fun 7+ years..

Im Mudbone.1437:

Phaedryn.3698:

Honestly, it’s this type of thing that causes me to dislike F2P models. I would MUCH prefer a straight forward subscription based model where gimmicks like this aren’t necessary.

Not to mention F2P props up poor games that simply failed to grab a real market…in other words, it artificially makes bad games financially viable.

That’s just it, I would expect this kind of game-play with the gem-store items and the RNG drops from a F2P game but not GW2 which is B2P. When it starts being a P2W game that’s when I most likely will bid ANET adieu and say it’s been a fun 7+ years..

No real difference between b2p & f2p, the only difference is if the company believes they have the IP/marketing to charge an initial $60 or not.

Astralporing.1957:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

First, we have to recognize what type of players there are. After some thought, I think these are the most likely.

1. Players who want new skins, but can’t / won’t spend real money for Gem Store items.
2. Players who want skins, and will pay varying degrees of real money for thier chances.
3. Players who don’t want new items.

You have missed one important group: Players who want skins, and will pay varying degrees of real money for them, but will not pay for a “chance”
And that’s actually quite a big group.

This

I agree with the Op- win win and at this point it will help with the negativity created by rng frustrated players.

It will boil over at some point.

I don’t think there is a solution to RNG. I dont think its fair that a player can do a fractals lvl 48 and only receive one rare. Yup, that’s RNG for yah. It can be awesome 1/1,000,000 times but most of the time it isn’t that great. I do think Anet is working on something that helps players receive guaranteed items.

Huh, is this the same Smurphy from City of Heroes?

If it is, then Anet really needs to listen to this guy b/c he knows his stuff…

With regard to Gem prices… I actually don’t think they’ve kept up WELL ENOUGH with the inflation caused by COF that the devs seem to keep neglecting… Yes you heard me, I think Gem exchange rates should be EVEN HIGHER, like 5g per 100 if they’re to truly match COF & Flipping income rates for ‘top earners’ in those niches. :p

ilr.9675:

Huh, is this the same Smurphy from City of Heroes?

If it is, then Anet really needs to listen to this guy b/c he knows his stuff…

With regard to Gem prices… I actually don’t think they’ve kept up WELL ENOUGH with the inflation caused by COF that the devs seem to keep neglecting… Yes you heard me, I think Gem exchange rates should be EVEN HIGHER, like 5g per 100 if they’re to truly match COF & Flipping income rates for ‘top earners’ in those niches. :p

It’s 132 per 5g last I checked (over the weekend).

What’s the issue at hand people? Can somebody explain the story behind the original problem?

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

3. Recognize that some players have large disposable incomes.

Here is where ANet fails. There are some players out there that just want the items. They don’t want to waste money or time, they just want them. RNG frustrates them because they can spend hundreds of dollars and not get anything.

Solution: Gem Store Items

Putting the items on the gem store, and allowing these people to buy as many versions they want will allow them to avoid the frustration and disappointment from wasting money on RNG.

Are you kidding? this is Anet’s bread & butter. Hell, this is the bread & butter of most online games now. it’s how they are funded, whales. if you remove the random element, they lose huge amounts of income. Anet hit a home run with this. if someone is dumb enough to spend hundreds of dollars on something that is not guaranteed, then they should be accepting the consequences.

Tbh, they should make the first weapon buyable per account, then the rest RNG. that was rich people can still fund the game, but others can get that guaranteed one.

Phaedryn.3698:

It’s 132 per 5g last I checked (over the weekend).

Huh??? … http://www.gw2spidy.com/gem

:0

DarksunG.9537:

Are you kidding? this is Anet’s bread & butter. Hell, this is the bread & butter of most online games now. it’s how they are funded, whales. if you remove the random element, they lose huge amounts of income. Anet hit a home run with this. if someone is dumb enough to spend hundreds of dollars on something that is not guaranteed, then they should be accepting the consequences.

Tbh, they should make the first weapon buyable per account, then the rest RNG. that was rich people can still fund the game, but others can get that guaranteed one.

Amen brother! I don’t know why people cannot understand that there is nothing wrong with RNG. It is how the company makes money. And they are in this to make money not to “just do cool stuff and make everyone happy.” ANet has no obligation to anyone as far as what they provide through their Gem Shop. These are the things that you can buy. And you can also buy them by swapping gold you make in the game for gems.

The only thing I don’t agree with you on is letting the players even buy one and then no more.

I’m a good example. There is only one item I wanted to buy with a Jade ticket. I want the staff. There weren’t any others I wanted. I have been grinding for dragon coffers like crazy. I was lucky enough to get a ticket finally. Now that I have my staff, I’m done. So a lot of people spending money for just one ticket, wouldn’t spend all that money if they could get even one of them. So I doubt that will happen.

ilr.9675:

Phaedryn.3698:

It’s 132 per 5g last I checked (over the weekend).

Huh??? … http://www.gw2spidy.com/gem

:0

Doh…165 (somehow hit one row lower on the key pad…lol)

If I may add my solution, I will also talk about your 3 groups:

Stop the focus on the gem-store. Put skins in it but do not try to get people to buy it. Like OP says, some people will not buy it anyway, other want but don’t have the money and so on, and so on. This is a B2P game do a gem-store should be optional not something the company focus on. In stead focus on expansions.

What would this mean in the game. Make skins and mini’s availible from drops like we know that from many MMO’s but also from MF or SAB. Also keep all that content availible. Stop adding temporary content. In addition to that also put such items in the gem-store.. not the same not a better looking (what I like better you may dislike) but just some other skins and another mini’s in the gem-store and again, not temporary. And stop with the gold-driver stuff. Let people farm mats, skins, mini’s or gold. Whatever they want / need.

Get rid of the RNG boxes and mats with an extreme low drap-change (mats should be hard because you need a lot of them but if you can’t farm them and you need a lot of them, then the only way to get them is to buy them.. gold-driven). Some skins or mini’s can have an extreme low drop-change but then the mobs that drop them should be farmable in a way they they spawn a lot in a area so people can run around there farming them.

1. People that don’t spend money.
You do not want people who do not spend money at all, they will go to F2P games but the people who don’t spend money on gems will usually spend money on expansions. You focus on expansion, they pay for them.
And if there is something in the gem-store they want they can save up gold to buy it anyway. That is not possible with temporary stuff (but you guys know that, thats the whole reason there is all that temporary stuff, hoping people will buy gems with money)

2 People with a budget
They might be willing to buy gems once in a while and if they can’t wont, something is to expansive they will save up gold to buy it. In addition they will pay for the expansion.

3 people who want to spend money on everything.
They will buy what they want.. gems and expansions.. but more likely is that they go to subscription based games. And as we see that most of those games fail it shows that the number of these people is not enough to support the game.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Crazylegsmurphy.6430:

ANet needs to stop trying to be super greedy.

i believe you are barking at the wrong tree.

anet does not decides how the gem store works.
ncsoft does.

and no, the RNG boxes system is working just fine as intended.

ncsoft realized that RNG boxes is the best monetization for gw2 PvE and thus ordered anet to focus on that.

if their RNG boxes gem store sales are bad, they would have stopped so after south sun crates.

they will not fix what is not broken in the first place.

and you have no idea how many people are buying the RNG boxes from the gem store.

Correction, they think RNG boxes is the best monetization for gw2. (may I make that, gem-store focus).

And in the short run that focus will be the best monetization but at the same time decisions in the game are based on that and not on what they should be “makes it the game better”. So it is bad for the game.. That will scare people away and people that are gone are not spending any money at all. So unless you are only focusing on making some fast money on the short run (that is mostly not what MMO’s are about, they are supposed to make money over a longer period) it is just bad management.