Guild Wars 2

Xenon.4537:

Wooden Potatoes version of this idea remains the best one: Racial masteries. Any one from any race and train to learn all racial skills from every other race.

Boom, no worry about a charr being more powerful than a sylvari. Sylvari can simply learn the charr skills and fight on equal footing.

And that defeats the purpose of the OP that want race to matter, we should just delete the 4 other races and go back to only human then.
Less hassle for anet and same result.

What would be cool is if the game allowed you to use racial skills on all skill slots very early (like level 5 or 10) so that you can have the fantasy of playing a character of your selected race. And then, as you level up, you gradually replace those racials with your profession’s actual skills.

At end-game though, races should be cosmetic only. The last thing I want is my warrior becoming subpar because Arenanet tuned norns and charrs in a way that makes them better warriors than other races. What’s the point of making a human or asura warrior if norns and charrs are straight up better? There isn’t. It’s only interesting (maybe…) if you can class change your character because then you can sacrifice roles you like less to empower roles you like more.

But even then, a game like Guild Wars 2 that puts emphasis on cosmetic rewards should never ask you to choose between power and looks. This is against one of the game’s core design philosophy.

I’m not sure what is wrong with race being part of the meta as class is part of the meta. Nothing should be so unequal that people don’t want to, or are shunned if they play a certain class. So the same should be true if race mattered to your build.

Djinn.9245:

I’m not sure what is wrong with race being part of the meta as class is part of the meta. Nothing should be so unequal that people don’t want to, or are shunned if they play a certain class. So the same should be true if race mattered to your build.

So you would be happy you leveled up a human warrior when all the meta groups say to you sorry charr is better race you cant join us.

As said above, maybe racial skills could have a place in low level play? I think it should be accessed from the getgo, or close to, because those locked skill abilities aren’t fun! This would allow newbies access to racial flavour skills from the getgo, while they are actually doing stuff that relates to their race. It also fits in-lore, as when you enter the orders, you begin to receive better class-orientated training.

No. Not unless there is a way of learning other race’s skills or disabling them completely in everything but open world pve. I don’t want to feel pressured to reroll my class because some other race’s elite is better.

I hate this idea. Adding an additional racial skill slot especially. If there is a slot purely for racial skills, then 1 skill will be better than the others and lead to pressure to play that specific race. Unless they are perfectly balanced, racial specific skills shouldn’t be used in combat at ALL, unless for RP purposes.

Storytelling I could maybe get behind but making each step unique per race means the steps are shorter and have less depth which imo is not a good trade off.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

What if racial skills were the same between races, except for aesthetics? Like the HoM pet skins.

Give every race the same number of racial skills, that do the same thing, but with different names and animations. Thus, for example, the sylvari Summon Sylvan Hound, human Hounds of Balthazar, asuran Summon 7-Series Golem, charr Warband Support, and a new norn racial skill (since they have no elite summon racial skill) all summon an NPC that has the same exact stats and skills, but different names and appearance.

Thus there’d be no balance difference between races and at the same time the skills can be improved to matter/be effective in PvE/WvW.

good suggestion, and I can see it work for most cases..
but what about the Norn spirits. You can make golem suits, or maybe elemental bodies.. but.. I can’t think of enough to make it work for all races, maybe sylvari can have plantoid exoskeletons

signed!
races should matter,
in other great games like WoW you’d see plenty of gnome mages because gnomes had higher intelligence, nightelf rogues were amazing because of their racial ability to stealth at will (with a cooldown ofcourse)
orcs made great warriors because of their higher strength, and humans were sort of the jack-of-all-trades race doing everything pretty well (as is a common theme in games with races)

i’d love if lumbering norn warriors had a huge advantage over a midget (asura) with a greatsword, and by contrast an asura elementalist would be very practical with their grand intelligence.

it’d be nice to see people playing a race other than asura for pvp…

Linken.6345:

Djinn.9245:

I’m not sure what is wrong with race being part of the meta as class is part of the meta. Nothing should be so unequal that people don’t want to, or are shunned if they play a certain class. So the same should be true if race mattered to your build.

So you would be happy you leveled up a human warrior when all the meta groups say to you sorry charr is better race you cant join us.

Are you “happy” if you level up that Warrior and all the meta groups don’t want Warriors? What’s the difference?

Djinn.9245:

Linken.6345:

Djinn.9245:

I’m not sure what is wrong with race being part of the meta as class is part of the meta. Nothing should be so unequal that people don’t want to, or are shunned if they play a certain class. So the same should be true if race mattered to your build.

So you would be happy you leveled up a human warrior when all the meta groups say to you sorry charr is better race you cant join us.

Are you “happy” if you level up that Warrior and all the meta groups don’t want Warriors? What’s the difference?

The diffrence is that its not a 1/5 chance that even if I had the right class desiried for group then I wouldent get into the group anyway since it was the wrong race.

Its like raid groups would suddenly need 300 li but oh wait you have to also have atleast 1 legendary armor unlock bud but no you also have to have the map completion star at name.
Edit
This could work, if people could race change if not you would have to level up 45 characters to have 1 of each race and class combo to always stay relevant is that what you want?

Compared to now you can level up 9 of what ever race you want and always have a class that can go into a meta group

Djinn.9245:

Linken.6345:

Djinn.9245:

I’m not sure what is wrong with race being part of the meta as class is part of the meta. Nothing should be so unequal that people don’t want to, or are shunned if they play a certain class. So the same should be true if race mattered to your build.

So you would be happy you leveled up a human warrior when all the meta groups say to you sorry charr is better race you cant join us.

Are you “happy” if you level up that Warrior and all the meta groups don’t want Warriors? What’s the difference?

The difference is you can relatively easily have one of each class at max rank. If racial skills are kept weak and race is just cosmetic that’s just 9 characters that cover all the bases. If racial skills are buffed and race is not just cosmetic then you need 5*9=45 characters to cover all the bases. Having to reroll a warrior because the latest patch buffed Asura and nerfed Charr so that Charr are no longer the “meta” would be a PITA, IMHO.

Also what would we actually get from them buffing racial skills (which were deliberately left weaker in order to avoid the scenario where any race was required for any profession)? Some people would get a feeling that they’re… somehow… special now? ArenaNet would get another set of variables to keep in mind while balancing skills.

Give us the ability to by a pass or w/e in the genstore that unlocks a small questline to unlock x’s race’s skills on your current toon (sylvari skills on my human). That way making a sylvari you have their skills to select from and if you dont want to make a toon you can simply buy a pass to acess their skills.

Xenon.4537:

I don’t even care that much about the racial skills after 5 years… I just want to see racial tensions in the story. I want the humans and charr to fight. I want Dragon’s Watch to be caught in the middle trying to choose a side. I want to uncover an Asuran conspiracy to manipulate the other races with politics and eugenics. The story is just boring as hell when everyone is always holding hands like carebears. We are supposed to be fighting a war, not singing kumbaya.

The war is not against each other but the larger forces.

zealex.9410:

Give us the ability to by a pass or w/e in the genstore that unlocks a small questline to unlock x’s race’s skills on your current toon (sylvari skills on my human). That way making a sylvari you have their skills to select from and if you dont want to make a toon you can simply buy a pass to acess their skills.

Yes that would work if it dident go against exactly what the OP wants for races to matter.
If everyone could buy a pass races again dont matter so its meaningless work that gets us back to the same spot.

Djinn.9245

I’m not sure what is wrong with race being part of the meta as class is part of the meta. Nothing should be so unequal that people don’t want to, or are shunned if they play a certain class. So the same should be true if race mattered to your build.

I vote a big NO. I dislike playing the huge norn and the running animation of charr actually make me “seasick,” so the one charr I created is doomed to be parked at a JP chest the rest of his life.

Why would it be a good thing to force a race if that race had any advantage over any other race, stats/skills-wise?

Eh, no worries, Anet will never change the way it is now.

Perhaps some new cosmetic racial skills could be developed. For fun and racial flavor as it were.

For example:

Norn – Favor of one’s chosen animal spirit. Whichever one you choose at creation becomes an unlimited transformation ability with costume brawl capabilities. NPCs in various areas could sell artifacts that allow for alternative transformations by anyone.

Asura – Mind Control: This race of superior master minds has learned how to use mind control on critters. This allows critters to be used in a remote costume brawl against other controlled critters. Like the Norn, various Asuran NPCs would sell devices to let anyone control a critter’s mind. Perhaps figure in a way to specialize based on a character creation factor.

Panda.1967:

1) Improving racial skills and making a racial skill slot makes your choice of race feel more impactful and meaningful in general content as you can actually make use of your racial skills without sacrificing build performance.

The problem with doing this is race then becomes part of the meta, breaking what is, at least to me, an important part of ‘play your way’. The OP suggestion that race should affect stats and build has the same result. Instead of sacrificing performance by choosing a flavor skill over a class skill you sacrifice performance by picking the wrong race for the class and content. That’s the ‘impactful and meaningful’ choice that this will create- pick the meta race for the class and content rather than the one that appeals to you the most.

And let’s face it, if you’re in a situation where you’re chafing because you can’t pick the flavor skill because you’ll sacrifice performance you’re probably in a situation where you’ll chafe because playing the race you want sacrifices performance.

Also, imagine the drama over, “I got kicked from my (content) group because I wouldn’t make a (race) to play (niche) (class)! Fix it ANET!”

DeanBB.4268:

GW2 launched in 2012, almost five years ago. You want the personal story to be updated now, after all that time passed, and after all those millions of characters went through it? Why would Anet do that?

to quote half the game’s Reddit frontpage at any given time “Hi, I’m new to the game!”

Pifil.5193:

Djinn.9245:

Linken.6345:

Djinn.9245:

I’m not sure what is wrong with race being part of the meta as class is part of the meta. Nothing should be so unequal that people don’t want to, or are shunned if they play a certain class. So the same should be true if race mattered to your build.

So you would be happy you leveled up a human warrior when all the meta groups say to you sorry charr is better race you cant join us.

Are you “happy” if you level up that Warrior and all the meta groups don’t want Warriors? What’s the difference?

The difference is you can relatively easily have one of each class at max rank. If racial skills are kept weak and race is just cosmetic that’s just 9 characters that cover all the bases. If racial skills are buffed and race is not just cosmetic then you need 5*9=45 characters to cover all the bases. Having to reroll a warrior because the latest patch buffed Asura and nerfed Charr so that Charr are no longer the “meta” would be a PITA, IMHO.

OR, Anet could keep all the races and classes balanced so that no 1 is the winner and none are “losers”. I don’t want to have 1 of each as it is and I don’t like the idea that whichever I want to play at the time I can’t because it is considered a loser.

Djinn.9245:

Linken.6345:

Djinn.9245:

I’m not sure what is wrong with race being part of the meta as class is part of the meta. Nothing should be so unequal that people don’t want to, or are shunned if they play a certain class. So the same should be true if race mattered to your build.

So you would be happy you leveled up a human warrior when all the meta groups say to you sorry charr is better race you cant join us.

Are you “happy” if you level up that Warrior and all the meta groups don’t want Warriors? What’s the difference?

The difference, to me at least, is that a Warrior, guardian, or Revenant all look the same in terms of base aesthetics. They wear the same armor, etc.

Having a performance variable based on race would be comparable to saying that hair color choice, or body size choice, eye color, or skin tone should determine performance. Should gender play a role in character performance?

By deciding that race, gender, and other character appearance decisions should not affect character performance Anet have reduced the likelihood that playing a character whose appearance appeals to you will result in under or overpowered combinations.

Djinn.9245:

Pifil.5193:

Djinn.9245:

Linken.6345:

Djinn.9245:

I’m not sure what is wrong with race being part of the meta as class is part of the meta. Nothing should be so unequal that people don’t want to, or are shunned if they play a certain class. So the same should be true if race mattered to your build.

So you would be happy you leveled up a human warrior when all the meta groups say to you sorry charr is better race you cant join us.

Are you “happy” if you level up that Warrior and all the meta groups don’t want Warriors? What’s the difference?

The difference is you can relatively easily have one of each class at max rank. If racial skills are kept weak and race is just cosmetic that’s just 9 characters that cover all the bases. If racial skills are buffed and race is not just cosmetic then you need 5*9=45 characters to cover all the bases. Having to reroll a warrior because the latest patch buffed Asura and nerfed Charr so that Charr are no longer the “meta” would be a PITA, IMHO.

OR, Anet could keep all the races and classes balanced so that no 1 is the winner and none are “losers”. I don’t want to have 1 of each as it is and I don’t like the idea that whichever I want to play at the time I can’t because it is considered a loser.

And your arguing about making it 5 times harder to be considered winner is the right thing?
Since you want to mix in race choice and not just class now.

They have a hard time just balancing classes do you want them to balance race aswell well hello balance patches evey 6 months.

Race should matter more in the context of story and player character interaction. But I can see how this could increase the development time.
Race skills should be usable just in open world pve. We are in an already weird situation where the some racial skill are meta for certain classes in PvE.

The idea of “giving all races all racial skills” is rather silly to me. It would mean giving charr, etc. a norn wereform, after all.

Amaimon.7823:

good suggestion, and I can see it work for most cases..
but what about the Norn spirits. You can make golem suits, or maybe elemental bodies.. but.. I can’t think of enough to make it work for all races, maybe sylvari can have plantoid exoskeletons

Norn would definitely be the hardest to fit. My best idea would be to merge the three “Become the <spirit>” skills into one that is determined by your biography option, with the skills being the same across all four forms just the appearance being different. I think that’s the best method, there are alternatives (like making more elites for the other races so every race has 4 transformation elites, or turning some of the norn elites into aura skills like the Grenth human racial skill).

Then add a couple more elites to norn to replace the removed ones (1 pet summon and 1 AoE). Move Battle Roar for charr and Pain Inverter for asura to heal skill, make all heals, utilities, and elites function the same, then boost the skills to be on par to profession skills.

Bonus work would be to add a specialization line that boosts the racial skills, but not sure if such is really needed after the above work.

Alternatively, just give a general boost to racial skills’ numbers so that they’re more viable, don’t worry about them being better options than each other, disable them in PvP, fractals, and raids and be done with it. Those are the only game formats where it would matter to the point of “needing to be x race with y profession to be good”.

Race does matter. They should start will compensating the races with penalties.
If you’ve ever done jumping puzzle with a Norn, you know they should get twice the rewards because they’ve earned it.

As much fun as it might seem to have the races matter more in build, I have to agree with the folks who’ve said that it’s better game design that the races don’t matter that way. Min-maxing would ultimately lead to certain race/classes being optimum. It would ruin race choices for folks.

However – I am totally on board with the OP that race should matter a whole lot more in game story. Even in how characters interact with you in text. There were nods to it here and there in Season 2 (giving Rytlock the crown, for instance), or how charr talk to Rytlock in HoT. But often it is irritatingly overlooked. My charr should NOT act like a human. And a couple of story instances where things go differently depending on your race (i.e. different tactics or tasks leading toward similar conclusions) would not be that incredibly time consuming.

azureai.9764:

As much fun as it might seem to have the races matter more in build, I have to agree with the folks who’ve said that it’s better game design that the races don’t matter that way. Min-maxing would ultimately lead to certain race/classes being optimum. It would ruin race choices for folks.

However – I am totally on board with the OP that race should matter a whole lot more in game story. Even in how characters interact with you in text. There were nods to it here and there in Season 2 (giving Rytlock the crown, for instance), or how charr talk to Rytlock in HoT. But often it is irritatingly overlooked. My charr should NOT act like a human. And a couple of story instances where things go differently depending on your race (i.e. different tactics or tasks leading toward similar conclusions) would not be that incredibly time consuming.

it would mate its 5 times nor time consuming then making it one story fits all.

Djinn.9245:

Pifil.5193:

Djinn.9245:

Linken.6345:

Djinn.9245:

I’m not sure what is wrong with race being part of the meta as class is part of the meta. Nothing should be so unequal that people don’t want to, or are shunned if they play a certain class. So the same should be true if race mattered to your build.

So you would be happy you leveled up a human warrior when all the meta groups say to you sorry charr is better race you cant join us.

Are you “happy” if you level up that Warrior and all the meta groups don’t want Warriors? What’s the difference?

The difference is you can relatively easily have one of each class at max rank. If racial skills are kept weak and race is just cosmetic that’s just 9 characters that cover all the bases. If racial skills are buffed and race is not just cosmetic then you need 5*9=45 characters to cover all the bases. Having to reroll a warrior because the latest patch buffed Asura and nerfed Charr so that Charr are no longer the “meta” would be a PITA, IMHO.

OR, Anet could keep all the races and classes balanced so that no 1 is the winner and none are “losers”. I don’t want to have 1 of each as it is and I don’t like the idea that whichever I want to play at the time I can’t because it is considered a loser.

We do not live in a utopia with unlimited funds and resources. Expecting a game to be balanced along a bunch of different dimensions is unrealistic.

Ashen.2907:

Ashantara.8731:

How would it “increase the cost”, if the devs were working on the several story path options instead of “more story content”? Logic?

More story paths would cost more than fewer story paths. Seems pretty logical to me that X * 5 > X (where x is tbe cost of one story path).

Okay, now think for a second. If you cut the overall content in order to produce more variety in the existent content, that evens it out. How hard is it to understand that? I’m really beginning to wonder here…

Ashantara.8731:

Ashen.2907:

Ashantara.8731:

How would it “increase the cost”, if the devs were working on the several story path options instead of “more story content”? Logic?

More story paths would cost more than fewer story paths. Seems pretty logical to me that X * 5 > X (where x is tbe cost of one story path).

Okay, now think for a second. If you cut the overall content in order to produce more variety in the existent content, that evens it out. How hard is it to understand that? I’m really beginning to wonder here…

Except that creating branching content is inherently more complex and time consuming than creating one story path. How hard is it to understand that? I’m really beginning to wonder here…

Tumult.2578:

Race does matter. They should start will compensating the races with penalties.
If you’ve ever done jumping puzzle with a Norn, you know they should get twice the rewards because they’ve earned it.

You must be kidding, right? greed is all you’ve shown with that last part of your post.

Ashantara.8731:

Okay, now think for a second. If you cut the overall content in order to produce more variety in the existent content, that evens it out.

Not even close.

1) differing branches of story for each race has a less than zero positive impact on players not interested in certain races. Literally less than zero because resources were removed from content appropriate to the race or races they do find interesting in order to add elements to races of no interest to them. A net loss.

2) racially branching story lines impact the ability for multiple players, in a massively multiplayer game, to progress story together. Great for a single player game perhaps though.

3) Time and resources spent on developing racial specific elements is not being spent on developing the overall story.

In a genre financially driven by quantity of multiplayer content, deciding, announcing to the press and the public, that you as a developer have decided to produce less content for the player base as a whole in order to provide a deeper, but much much shorter, single player experience FOR A PORTION OF THE PLAYER BASE, while ignoring the remainder, would be a misstep (at best).

Konig Des Todes.2086:

don’t worry about them being better options than each other, disable them in PvP, fractals, and raids and be done with it. Those are the only game formats where it would matter to the point of “needing to be x race with y profession to be good”.

This is the obvious answer.

Mea.5491:

Ashantara.8731:

special abilities that modify stats to add some spice to profession choice.

NO!!! I hate other MMOs in which I must pick a certain race for the class I like because of the racials! I want to play the race I enjoy aesthetically and I don’t want to worry about racial skills / passives! GW2 is doing it RIGHT.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I’d prefer not to have to create and play a Charr (or any other race) because that race has the option for the best build.

^ This 100%.

Agreed. I like how in GW2 you can chose any race and have equal chance at being competitive with any class.

Ugh! So racist!!
But really, I can see why this idea would look good on paper, but in practice, it kind of starts to fall apart. The game would have to be designed with racial traits/abilities in mind and would leave a lot of people at a disadvantage in a lot of odd situations and force people into “roles” they might not want to play.

Like, say, for example, there’s an instance or area in the game that is designed to need a tank. The level designers have to consider that some races will be inherently more durable and must consider them when making the area. So, in order to make the area challenging enough that say, a Norn, can’t just stand there and use his inherent durability to soak up damage and not use a lot of effort, they’re going to have to make that area pump out a lot of damage. Even his big buff, probably hairy form will need to really work as hard as he can.

Now, say, you like Sylvari. They’re pretty. But on top of that, their racial traits make them really agile and their inherent curiosity makes them great elementalists, necromancers, and engineers. But they’re small frail plants. They’d be terrible guardians or warriors. (I imagine that’s how it’d go at least.) But you need to get past this aforementioned “tanky” area. The area is designed to be barely beatable to a tanky Norn that is FAR beyond your ability. You can spec all you want as a Sylvari guardian, but your max durability won’t be close to a Norn guardian’s max durability. So the area might be impossible for your little Sylvari to handle, because if a squishy frail plant can pass the area, even with difficulty, it would be a breeze for any Norn.

As the game is now, I don’t need to be so picky about race. If I want to be a great necromancer, I don’t have to be a Sylvari or human. If I want to be a great warrior, I don’t have to be a Norn or Charr. I can be durable and still look like a pretty plant. I can be a fierce and intimidating Charr, but not suck at magic. The benefits of racial equality outweigh the negative effects of unique racial traits.

From the title I was so sure this was going to be an asura height bashing thread

Race should add flavor but not advantage. A little more flavor would be nice though.

Ashantara.8731:

None of you has made any argument that makes it more equitable to not have race matter (at least in the story!). On the contrary, it’s like you are defending having less variety, “because”.

If the race mattered, we would have less variety. All warriors would be Charr or Norn, all Rangers would be sylvari, all engis would be Asuras. That’s an example of course, we might have ended with a different race/class pairings, but we would end up with those. That is exactly why race doesn’t matter buildwise.

Still, more emphasis on player character race should be made in LS and personal story,

While I agree that race of the character should have an impact on the playstyle (or at least should have the possibillity to impact the playstyle) there is an even bigger personal choice that deserve that spot ….. the order (whisperers, durmand, vigil) you joined ……..
The coolest thing that happend to me in the whole time I played GW2 was when I went with my second char (a lightbringer) through a map my first char (crusader) already have cleared and found all the agents and little hideouts the order of whispers had installed. The world of GW really felt alive at that time. Unfortunately, with the forming of the pact these kinds of discoveries became quite ratre…. until the point where I barely remember which char I put into which order …..

So to improve that (in the gameplay area, the story telling stuff is something different) I suggest the implementation of 8 new (elite?) specializations. One for each playable race and one for each order. Putting all the racial (and order?) skills into a specialization will make them come with their own trait line and allow Anet to redesign that dam stuff to actually synergize which each other …. because currently the racial skills are just a bunch of random skills thrown together with some loreful package put around.

If put into a whole specialization – specially if its an elite one – will hopefully put the racial lore into a meaningful gameplay element. Some that synergizes with the rest of your build and is not just a copy of other skills in a new color.

To make sure that you do not have to create a specific race/class combi for raids etc and therefore level up 5 different warrior chars, then can do two things:

a) make this race/ order specializations elite specilisations and slightly weaker then the others. So basically similiar to how the racial works just updated that their is actually a concept behind them

b) make all those elite specs temporally available to all characters ( my favourite). You can also wasily find a lore explanation for this. The change of order could be explained that you were requested by that order to do something special for them (like e.g. lightbringers go undercover to find a traitor in the vigil, crusader temporally join the priory because they have developed new weapons you shall test for them etc etc) and for the race change you use the trinkets ( like the one that makes you a kodan). If these changes can be made in all PvP and high end PvE areas (like fractal lobby or raid lobby) then there should be no reason to level 5 different characters for each class just to fit into the meta.

Pax.3548:

Tumult.2578:

Race does matter. They should start will compensating the races with penalties.
If you’ve ever done jumping puzzle with a Norn, you know they should get twice the rewards because they’ve earned it.

You must be kidding, right? greed is all you’ve shown with that last part of your post.

Yes, that was a tongue in cheek post. Most of the JP’s are not more difficult due to Norn’s size but 3 or 4 of them are very difficult and I actually would support a modestly increased reward.

However I see no reason to be insulting. Some just are more difficult. Personally I hate JP’s. Just the though of doing them for money is absurd. Claiming greed though, is just a lazy response.

Linken.6345:

it would mate its 5 times nor time consuming then making it one story fits all.

Yeah, no. Tweaking the dialogue or characters in one scenario depending on race is not the same as making 5 separate scenarios. Even making the tasks/approaches different is not the same as “5 times” more work.

Would it be more work? Yeah. Would it make players feel more appreciated and their choices have more weight? Definitely. I’d welcome even small nods to who my character is and the choices he’d made. Heck, I’d love it if my character even behaved a little more in-character instead of like a human all the time.

Race should matter storywise. Although I appreciate anet’s attempt at providing an ascended weapon quest, I refused to do it. #1 I already had plenty enough ascended weapons, and #2, as I run a charr as my main, my toon felt that Treehead was the worst Pact Commander Tyria ever had, so I left the pieces of Caladbolg where it belonged… still lodged in his belly.

azureai.9764:

Linken.6345:

it would mate its 5 times nor time consuming then making it one story fits all.

Yeah, no. Tweaking the dialogue or characters in one scenario depending on race is not the same as making 5 separate scenarios. Even making the tasks/approaches different is not the same as “5 times” more work.

Would it be more work? Yeah. Would it make players feel more appreciated and their choices have more weight? Definitely. I’d welcome even small nods to who my character is and the choices he’d made. Heck, I’d love it if my character even behaved a little more in-character instead of like a human all the time.

So if you write 1 line on a piece of paper or 1 line on 5 pieces of paper, you dont make 5 times the work.

I would like to hire you mate.

Linken.6345:

azureai.9764:

Linken.6345:

it would mate its 5 times nor time consuming then making it one story fits all.

Yeah, no. Tweaking the dialogue or characters in one scenario depending on race is not the same as making 5 separate scenarios. Even making the tasks/approaches different is not the same as “5 times” more work.

Would it be more work? Yeah. Would it make players feel more appreciated and their choices have more weight? Definitely. I’d welcome even small nods to who my character is and the choices he’d made. Heck, I’d love it if my character even behaved a little more in-character instead of like a human all the time.

So if you write 1 line on a piece of paper or 1 line on 5 pieces of paper, you dont make 5 times the work.

I would like to hire you mate.

Do you think that any scenario only consists of those race-specific parts? Or that creating a story requires only writing dialogue?

Edit: corrected an obvious mistake.

Astralporing.1957:

Linken.6345:

azureai.9764:

Linken.6345:

it would mate its 5 times nor time consuming then making it one story fits all.

Yeah, no. Tweaking the dialogue or characters in one scenario depending on race is not the same as making 5 separate scenarios. Even making the tasks/approaches different is not the same as “5 times” more work.

Would it be more work? Yeah. Would it make players feel more appreciated and their choices have more weight? Definitely. I’d welcome even small nods to who my character is and the choices he’d made. Heck, I’d love it if my character even behaved a little more in-character instead of like a human all the time.

So if you write 1 line on a piece of paper or 1 line on 5 pieces of paper, you dont make 5 times the work.

I would like to hire you mate.

Do you think that any scenario only consists of those class-specific parts? Or that creating a story requires only writing dialogue?

oh we want class specific now aswell thats 45 combiations then even more work.

And mostl likely yes to point out class or race it would have to be in text or voice I would imagen.
Both that add as many combination as there is class/race so extra work.

Astralporing.1957:

Ashantara.8731:

None of you has made any argument that makes it more equitable to not have race matter (at least in the story!). On the contrary, it’s like you are defending having less variety, “because”.

If the race mattered, we would have less variety. All warriors would be Charr or Norn, all Rangers would be sylvari, all engis would be Asuras. That’s an example of course, we might have ended with a different race/class pairings, but we would end up with those. That is exactly why race doesn’t matter buildwise.

Still, more emphasis on player character race should be made in LS and personal story,

This is an assumption not based in fact.

Djinn.9245:

Astralporing.1957:

Ashantara.8731:

None of you has made any argument that makes it more equitable to not have race matter (at least in the story!). On the contrary, it’s like you are defending having less variety, “because”.

If the race mattered, we would have less variety. All warriors would be Charr or Norn, all Rangers would be sylvari, all engis would be Asuras. That’s an example of course, we might have ended with a different race/class pairings, but we would end up with those. That is exactly why race doesn’t matter buildwise.

Still, more emphasis on player character race should be made in LS and personal story,

This is an assumption not based in fact.

Its an exaggeration but the basis is true that people will chose to play the race that is objectively stronger and synergies best with their class. Unless all racial skills are perfectly balanced (unlikely) then racial skills cant be worth using in combat at all because race stop being cosmetic.

Cyndercat.5120:

Djinn.9245:

Astralporing.1957:

Ashantara.8731:

None of you has made any argument that makes it more equitable to not have race matter (at least in the story!). On the contrary, it’s like you are defending having less variety, “because”.

If the race mattered, we would have less variety. All warriors would be Charr or Norn, all Rangers would be sylvari, all engis would be Asuras. That’s an example of course, we might have ended with a different race/class pairings, but we would end up with those. That is exactly why race doesn’t matter buildwise.

Still, more emphasis on player character race should be made in LS and personal story,

This is an assumption not based in fact.

Its an exaggeration but the basis is true that people will chose to play the race that is objectively stronger and synergies best with their class. Unless all racial skills are perfectly balanced (unlikely) then racial skills cant be worth using in combat at all because race stop being cosmetic.

Exactly, perfect balance is impossible or near enough to impossible to consider it impossible.

The entire argument that racial skills should be more powerful and it would be fine if they are balanced is stupid. Why risk adding imbalance if the current way dealt with this issue (keeping skills irrelevant) works perfectly fine.

Cyndercat.5120:

Djinn.9245:

Astralporing.1957:

Ashantara.8731:

None of you has made any argument that makes it more equitable to not have race matter (at least in the story!). On the contrary, it’s like you are defending having less variety, “because”.

If the race mattered, we would have less variety. All warriors would be Charr or Norn, all Rangers would be sylvari, all engis would be Asuras. That’s an example of course, we might have ended with a different race/class pairings, but we would end up with those. That is exactly why race doesn’t matter buildwise.

Still, more emphasis on player character race should be made in LS and personal story,

This is an assumption not based in fact.

Its an exaggeration but the basis is true that people will chose to play the race that is objectively stronger and synergies best with their class. Unless all racial skills are perfectly balanced (unlikely) then racial skills cant be worth using in combat at all because race stop being cosmetic.

What he actually said was:

Astralporing.1957:

If the race mattered, we would have less variety. All warriors would be Charr or Norn, all Rangers would be sylvari, all engis would be Asuras. That’s an example of course, we might have ended with a different race/class pairings, but we would end up with those.

And this is what I objected to. We don’t actually know that an improved Race would correspond with only one class. That is the assumption that I am objecting to.

Djinn.9245:

Cyndercat.5120:

Djinn.9245:

Astralporing.1957:

Ashantara.8731:

None of you has made any argument that makes it more equitable to not have race matter (at least in the story!). On the contrary, it’s like you are defending having less variety, “because”.

If the race mattered, we would have less variety. All warriors would be Charr or Norn, all Rangers would be sylvari, all engis would be Asuras. That’s an example of course, we might have ended with a different race/class pairings, but we would end up with those. That is exactly why race doesn’t matter buildwise.

Still, more emphasis on player character race should be made in LS and personal story,

This is an assumption not based in fact.

Its an exaggeration but the basis is true that people will chose to play the race that is objectively stronger and synergies best with their class. Unless all racial skills are perfectly balanced (unlikely) then racial skills cant be worth using in combat at all because race stop being cosmetic.

What he actually said was:

Astralporing.1957:

If the race mattered, we would have less variety. All warriors would be Charr or Norn, all Rangers would be sylvari, all engis would be Asuras. That’s an example of course, we might have ended with a different race/class pairings, but we would end up with those.

And this is what I objected to. We don’t actually know that an improved Race would correspond with only one class. That is the assumption that I am objecting to.

It dont matter if an improved race is best in slot for 1 class or 2 or 8 as long as it is less then the 9 we how now its a down garde in the system.

I believe racial elites should have a shorter cd because none r used in any way due to 180s or 240s cd. Who cares if that race has something better in damage if the other has something better in other things. More diversity and race importance should matter