Guild Wars 2

Totally bringing up something based on a thread that was near on insta-closed.

Begins egg shell avoidance.

Is racism in Tyria the same as it is in reality? I mean it’s not like we are dealing with different colored humans or something.

Like a Human hating on the Charr. (lel)

The Charr are a completely different species after all and we have pretty much killed loads of each other throughout history. What if there was very little resources left due to some cataclysmic event? What do you think would happen then? Not to mention we can’t exactly make babies together.

Unless we wish to breed some kind of abomination. O_o

Considering the history it wouldn’t exactly be unwarranted to hate on each other. When it comes down to it do you really think either species would let their own die for the sake of the other? For every bit of ground they take or resource they consume humanity in turn loses it.

Charr are intelligent beasts. We have hands and they have claws.

I mean it’s not really the same as a Human hating on a Human for their ethnicity is it? What would be wrong with being pro-Human? If the Charr were gone we could further expand and prosper.

There is the obvious reason which would be to avoid bloodshed but forget that for a second. What other reasons do we have not to slaughter the other?

Someone enlighten me or link me some reading.

Of course this could be said about every race vs every other race but yeah…Humans.

This totally sounds like propaganda.

This’ll probably get deleted. >_>

Edit: Just to clarify I’m not trying to incite some kind of conflict here.
Edit2: Why can’t/shouldn’t I be “racist” against the Charr? Why shouldn’t I want to see them all gone so humanity can move further forward?
Edit3: Err I was also trying to point out that the racism in Tyria is not really the same as it is here in reality, on Earth.
Edit4: Sure we are all united by the threat of the Elder Dragons. This is an alliance of self preservation though. When the threat is gone old problems will resurface and it’ll be as it was. Us vs them. The things I mentioned will only be amplified by the lack of a distraction which was the destruction of everyone.

Also. I’m not role playing. I was merely thinking about it.

What?

i still dont get it why it got insta deleted ..
but on topic .. Exactly wha tiam thinking .. why me as a human dont have a choice ..

Lol this sounds exactly like the Cerberus kinda of argument for Mass effect pro humans/humans first. Racism in this game is actually seen first with the charr vs. human war and with the inquest in their treatment of, well, everything really. Then you have the slyvari hatred/paranoia. It’s not like it doesn’t exist in Tyria just like in real life, but most people(and I’m sure the developers as well) think that co-existing and working together is a much more preferred ideal. Tyria doesn’t appear to have a lack of resources, in addition there’s this whole giant dragons who are hell bent on destroying life thing everyone’s worried about.

Pistol Joe.3741:

i still dont get it why it got insta deleted ..
but on topic .. Exactly wha tiam thinking .. why me as a human dont have a choice ..

It most likely got instantly deleted because of the title and the fact you never clearly stated it was a bit of RP silliness. Anet’s mods tend to be a bit over zealous, which I would prefer to the alternative.

The Searing was Apocalyptic as any Elder dragon stuff ..
destruction of Ascalon ? The Sinking of orr .. all because of the Charr .

Embrace The Bold.7619:

Lol this sounds exactly like the Cerberus kinda of argument for Mass effect pro humans/humans first. Racism in this game is actually seen first with the charr vs. human war and with the inquest in their treatment of, well, everything really. Then you have the slyvari hatred/paranoia. It’s not like it doesn’t exist in Tyria just like in real life, but most people(and I’m sure the developers as well) think that co-existing and working together is a much more preferred ideal. Tyria doesn’t appear to have a lack of resources, in addition there’s this whole giant dragons who are hell bent on destroying life thing everyone’s worried about.

What about when this imminent threat to all life is gone?

“Racism: the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.”

So human racism against Charr would be a human declaring that all Charr are inferior because they all possess or lack certain characteristic(s).

This would be a both yes and no situation. Since, unlike humans they are a different species and species do possess “group characteristics” (deer are flighty, lions are aggressive) then as a group Charr will be different than humans. But just as not all deer are equally flighty and not all lions are equally aggressive, not all Charr would be equally “Charr like.” So yes, humans could be both accurate about Charr (they are all warlike) and racist (that Charr is warlike, even though s/he isn’t).

As to what happens when push comes to shove and it’s your species or mine, I think we all know enough history to say it will be my species, not yours. Both sides would fight when resources start to pinch. The higher the stakes, the fewer the resources, the worse the fighting. Genocide of one or the other will be the answer if neither side can or will back down.

niea.7504:

What?

^ This. What exactly is your point? You’re free to role play the game in any way you please as long as you don’t ruin someone else’s enjoyment.

The Charr Didnt Win Any war against the Humans ..
The Charr Where ushed north of the Wall by humans
Adelbern Ended it at Ascalon With the FoeFire ..
Orr was Sunken Before they could get in
and in Kryta the Char got thier kitten kicked my the humans .

Michael.8562:

niea.7504:

What?

^ This. What exactly is your point? You’re free to role play the game in any way you please as long as you don’t ruin someone else’s enjoyment.

His question is coming from a thread which was locked with in I want to say 30 minutes, that was a little Role Playing type of post. It was a racist human being racist towards charr. He’s asking why is this a bad thing/frowned upon in Tyria from a purely logical point of view.

my post got locked in 15 mins .. for no obvious reason .

There’s a lot of readings in social psychology that could detail some of the motivation. A lot of it comes from in-group/out-group tendencies.

When it comes to racism, one’s race becomes a gigantic clique, of sorts. Your in-group will more readily apply positive traits it itself and negative traits of the out-group. These are faulty heuristics (quick paths of thinking, think stereotypes) that don’t detail any actual experience with that out-group.

The treatment of the out-group as a non-entity means that it is emotionally easier to exclude them. Or justify killing them. You see it in real world bigots all the time. The Charr (or RL minority) aren’t “people” to them, they’re ‘evil’ or ‘sinners’ or ‘at fault for atrocity,’ even if the are none left alive to be responsible for it (ie, slavery, or Adelbern being a crazy chicken and magic-nuking his kingdom).

What the in-group doesn’t do is identify positive or ‘human’ characteristics to the out-group, because including them may upset the in-group’s dynamic/comfort, or it forces them to confront long-held beliefs. People aren’t good at challenging those, and it makes them upset.

Not quite the reference-heavy wiki entry it should be, but you might be able to look up some other items online or at a college library.

kitten we talkin bout RL issues in a game designed to keep us entertained and away from RL…. you people are nuts!

Racism seems kind of petty and pointless when you have dragons trying to destroy the entire world. The mere fact that all sentient races are under threat binds them together in a way that transcends any such concerns.

Besides, the game tackles the mistrust and unease between humans and charr plenty.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

kitten we talkin bout RL issues in a game designed to keep us entertained and away from RL…. you people are nuts!

Media for entertainment often has IRL issues in it whether its addressed and tackled is completely different. It’s not unreasonable for people to talk about this stuff and personally I find it interesting.

Pistol Joe.3741:

The Searing was Apocalyptic as any Elder dragon stuff ..
destruction of Ascalon ? The Sinking of orr .. all because of the Charr .

…who sorta got kicked of their turf by humans and got a bit.. angry about that for obvios reasons. What would you do if i just kick you out of your apartment and claim it as mine? I bet you wouldnt be pleased either. Also orrs and ascalons destruction was the fault of lunatic human kings who prefered self destruction over defeat or surrender.

Edit: also there is that thing with the titans.. ya know the guys who charr worshipped back then as gods. They provided them with the cauldron of cataclysm and told em to invade the 3 human kingdoms. Now make a guess who told the titans to command the charr to do that? Abbadon… so yea.. technically its the gods fault

Pistol Joe.3741:

i still dont get it why it got insta deleted ..
but on topic .. Exactly wha tiam thinking .. why me as a human dont have a choice ..

Suck it up human. Charrs stomped you good and proper. Humans lost everything. But hey they can always pray to the mighty god Logan. The god of chicken runners.

Iron legion 4life.

Aetrion.8295:

Racism seems kind of petty and pointless when you have dragons trying to destroy the entire world. The mere fact that all sentient races are under threat binds them together in a way that transcends any such concerns.

It’s petty and pointless no matter the context.

And as much as we like to think people are enlightened enough to transcend racism when faced with a threat, history says otherwise. It’s when people are under a big threat that they lash out at others who are different. Scapegoats are useful.

Pistol Joe.3741:

i still dont get it why it got insta deleted ..
but on topic .. Exactly wha tiam thinking .. why me as a human dont have a choice ..

I am not sure if you were the OP of the deleted thread but I reported it.

My reasons were that it was a racist post and the way it was written wasnt very inviting to a constructive discussion.

Wether racism in tyria between the 5 races is the same racism between different races and ethnical groups on earth and therefore punishable on the forums and in game, is debatable.

Especially because its written into tyrian lore past, present and quite possibly future.
I have nothing against some banter between the tyrian races on the forums or in map chat or roleplaying those conflicts.

But the other thread was full of racial slurs and was in my opinion just created to iniate a hateful trollfest.

Roleplayed or not, I dont think it should be conducted on a public forum, thats why i reported it.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

kitten we talkin bout RL issues in a game designed to keep us entertained and away from RL…. you people are nuts!

It’s more trying to become immersed in the world and lore that has been created than debating real life issues and the like.

You know. What kind of world am I playing in? Which characters or events are significant? Who are the guys I’m fighting? What place does my character have in all of this etc etc.

For some, like me, these things are vital to the enjoyment of the game.

Pistol Joe.3741:

The Searing was Apocalyptic as any Elder dragon stuff ..
destruction of Ascalon ? The Sinking of orr .. all because of the Charr .

Maybe. Or perhaps the one responsible was the being behind it all – Abaddon. A human god.
And that’s without even going into what the Charr have been doing north of the wall… and north of their ancestral lands.

Aetrion.8295:

Racism seems kind of petty and pointless when you have dragons trying to destroy the entire world.

On the other hand, living beings are rarely fully rational.

It’s in fact telling, that at the time of the previous emergence of the dragons, at least two of the races existing at that time (Mursaat and Seers) were engaged in a war. At least, because from what i remember Jotuns weren’t a friendly bunch either.

Templar.3418:

What other reasons do we have not to slaughter the other?

Okay, yeah. I’ll tackle this one.

Let’s start with a little non-GW2 thought game. Let’s say that some mad scientist in the real world has made a mind transfer machine, and uses it on an average human and a cow. The cow now has the mind of a human, and the human now has the mind of a cow.

So… which one is a PERSON?

Yep, it’s the one with the human-level mind, even though they have the body of a cow. The body shape and DNA don’t matter, the important part here is the MIND. It’s not “human” that’s important, it’s “person”.

Now, let’s head back to Tyria. It’s easy to see that all five player races are people. They’re not all human, but they’re mentally on-par with human. Love, hate, regret, sympathy… they feel all these things. They all come to realize that some day they will die, and they all have to find a way to deal with that. Charr, norn, sylvari, asura, and even others such as the tengu and kodan, they’re all people. Not animals. Not beasts. People.

This is why they should not be hated or killed. Human or not has nothing to do with it. Being human isn’t what makes someone important. Being a person is.

This is one of those thoughts that I have frequently. The reason why racism is bad in the real world is because it is incorrect. There’s very little difference between individuals of different physical features.

But in fantasy game settings, we aren’t dealing with the same species but with minor alterations. We’re dealing with entirely different species, which have entirely different biology. Different organs, different hormonal balance, different development pacing and stages, different lifespans and aging, different diets, and a wholly alien ecology. I can kind of understand the animosity when the other “race” is something like an intangible alien who consumes zero point energy for sustenance. The correct term would be specie-ism.

I understand the allegory that is being made, but I can’t help but think it is a bit incongruent when the other “race” is more biologically similar to a fern than a human.

You get games once in a while (just like movies) that touch on issues that what we face in real life or very similar. In GW2’s case I think it is deliberate along with the same gender relationships as well as the recent gender swap thing that happened.

If anything it is a subtle way of pointing to or pointing out things we have not get figured out yet in rl or found solutions to. Also it kind of shows to those who are racist in real life exactly just how stupid it is. If you can get a racist person to see in a game how their actions are silly in real life then I would say that is a win win for everyone.

So to answer the question of this post which I take as:

“should we be allowed to be racist in game or even on the forums?” in the context of RP or just fun/banter. For me it would have to be a “case by case” thing. Example if a player is abusing it to deliberately troll someone or abuse them – reportable. But if it’s just light banter as say calling someone a “bookah” or “2-legs” in fun I would say that’s fine. But take that too far and then it’s borderline abuse.

I’m racist against talking cabbages, what are you going to do about it? :p

Popular word it is these days. People see racism everywhere.

To sadden OP, this isn’t rasism, it’s animosity and hostility due to the past. 100 years ago, when the first world war was declared, was it due to the difference in ethnicity or due to political reasons?

Halan.7931:

Palador.2170:

Now, let’s head back to Tyria. It’s easy to see that all five player races are people. They’re not all human, but they’re mentally on-par with human. Love, hate, regret, sympathy… they feel all these things. They all come to realize that some day they will die, and they all have to find a way to deal with that. Charr, norn, sylvari, asura, and even others such as the tengu and kodan, they’re all people. Not animals. Not beasts. People.

Can you procreate with a cow? NO
Can you feed yourself and your kids with a cow? YES

If times get tough, and you’ll need to select your side, it’ll be your own kind.

You can feed yourself and your kids with a human neighbour too. Having different genetics doesn’t make it any more of a moral problem – remember that cows are mentally a lot further from humans than charr are.

Pistol Joe.3741:

The Charr Didnt Win Any war against the Humans ..
The Charr Where ushed north of the Wall by humans
Adelbern Ended it at Ascalon With the FoeFire ..
Orr was Sunken Before they could get in
and in Kryta the Char got thier kitten kicked my the humans .

I don’t think you know as much about Lore as you think you do. Charr did win the war in Ascalon, even if they didn’t take Ascalon City due to a curse. For one thing, they took Rin which was the capital and built the Black Citadel on it.

There were two human hold outs for a long time…Ascalon City and Ebonhawke. Ebonhawke was under siege and only surviving due to the Asura gate that led to Kryta. Ascalon City is no longer defended by humans, but by their cursed ghosts, which aren’t human at all.

The reason Adelburn destroyed the city was because the Charr were going to take it. Denying someone a city doesn’t exactly mean you didn’t lose the war.

And it wasn’t the humans that stopped the Charr from invading Kryta. That was the Mursaat.