Guild Wars 2

fellyn.5083:

You do realize that your argument doesn’t make any sense given how much ap the average player has right? The average (read: majority of) gw2 players have less than 5000 ap.

Actually, it’s not just a majority, it’s over 90% of the players that are below 5000 AP. Those “scrubs” Lighthammer is refering to, that are at barely 18-19k AP? That’s top 1%.

Of course the average is pretty low. A lot of people dont have any interest in collecting achievements. They only play whats fun to them or little effort.
If you want high up you have to do all the demanding ones such as having 2 of the same legendaries. The average wont ever do that.
Its only interesting to see the average of people who actively try to hunt achievements. And considering how little competition there is in the top 20 (I am ranked 15 despite 3 months of break), I doubt the number of AP collectors is very large.

I really feel this deserves to be looked at. Unless there is a flood of AP soon from an expansion’s worth of content, getting a set is incredibly unreasonable.

Interesting thoughts Nutjob.9021. Someone earlier in the thread said that the chest piece and legs were able to be dyed? Would that change your mind about the pieces?

I want a full set of Radiant armor…I don’t really care for the Hellfire. Anet, can you please, please change the reward system so it’s not impossible to obtain these skins? I don’t mind gathering loads of AP before finally getting the pieces. But why get multiple options for the gloves/boots/etc before we can even complete one set? I can appreciate a reward system that sets long term goals, (regardless if I would have the patience to get them or not) But as a lot have pointed out, it’s a tedious and difficult task to get that far.

Right now, I’m gonna have to settle for this outfit for my Norn. at least celestial dye makes a nice alternative.

I dont find the requirements insane. They are just impossible for the next 1-3 years depending if Anet brings an expansion or not.

Malediktus.9250:

I dont find the requirements insane. They are just impossible for the next 1-3 years depending if Anet brings an expansion or not.

My apologies, I only skimmed the majority of the posts. I’ll edit mine.

Rambodacious.7495:

Interesting thoughts Nutjob.9021. Someone earlier in the thread said that the chest piece and legs were able to be dyed? Would that change your mind about the pieces?

That was me. I checked and the Radiant can be, the Hellfire cannot. The Radiant still has areas of white glow — that part won’t change — but the skirt area and chest framing will dye. I checked by previewing with a Green dye previewed in every dye slot.

Sorry I don’t have screenies, I’m not in game to take them just now.

Malediktus.9250:

I dont find the requirements insane. They are just impossible for the next 1-3 years depending if Anet brings an expansion or not.

You mean like 3-6 years, right? 1-2 years is possible only if that expansion you are waiting for (which currently seems unlikely to arrive anytime soon, if ever) would be really massive.
And that’s only for you and few other top leaderboard players.

I agree with the OP – The reward structure needs to be changed as it doesn’t really make sense at all.

I’d count me to the “above average players”, currently sitting below 13,5k AP. So far I was forced to get the Hellfire helm, the shoulders and the radiant gloves. Next up will be the radiant gloves. As I said I literally was forced to get them – I never wanted them or intended to use them as I find them to be ugly.

If I’d had a choice-system like with the weapons I’d gotten Top, Bottom, Gloves and next up Shoes. With that my Charr would be finished armorwise – But I won’t reach that point within the next few years and that sucks. It’s one of the reasons I never continued leveling my Charr – I leveled the other chars I had because I already had a armor in mind that I could actually get.

Mind you, this is not an argument about prestige of an armor set. To get a full one you still need to invest a huge amount of time. It is, however an argument about how discouraging this system is for someone who’s excitet about the skin. If you know you can’t reach something for 6 years+ while it’s dangling in-front of you all the time I can see why people get upset and leave.

Akuni.8604:

I agree with the OP – The reward structure needs to be changed as it doesn’t really make sense at all.

I’d count me to the “above average players”, currently sitting below 13,5k AP. So far I was forced to get the Hellfire helm, the shoulders and the radiant gloves. Next up will be the radiant gloves. As I said I literally was forced to get them – I never wanted them or intended to use them as I find them to be ugly.

If I’d had a choice-system like with the weapons I’d gotten Top, Bottom, Gloves and next up Shoes. With that my Charr would be finished armorwise – But I won’t reach that point within the next few years and that sucks. It’s one of the reasons I never continued leveling my Charr – I leveled the other chars I had because I already had a armor in mind that I could actually get.

Mind you, this is not an argument about prestige of an armor set. To get a full one you still need to invest a huge amount of time. It is, however an argument about how discouraging this system is for someone who’s excitet about the skin. If you know you can’t reach something for 6 years+ while it’s dangling in-front of you all the time I can see why people get upset and leave.

But….they are free….

Saying you were “forced” to get them is a bit dramatic. They gave you a free gift that you choose to equip or simply forget about. That’s like saying a kid who doesn’t care about the happy meal toy is being forced to take the toy in his happy meal. It’s included for free: if he doesn’t want the toy, then he doesn’t have to use it.

I remember one year (in the 90s) you got a comb in the happy meal. No joke a comb. It was like a flip comb or something. I didn’t want it so I tossed it. At no point was I upset that they dared force that comb upon me.

Basically they are not free as you have to invest your time. And let me tell you time is the most expensive thing out in the world. You don’t get AP by doing nothing. You have to invest time for dailies, exploratores, jumping puzzles and what not.

Saying they are free also doesn’t justify that reward structure. Look at the weapons, those are choosable – There was no reason at all why the armor needed to be fixed besides the fact that they didn’t have it finished by then.

That’s what grinds my gears there – and please, I’m not trying to rant at you.

Malediktus.9250:

I dont find the requirements insane. They are just impossible for the next 1-3 years depending if Anet brings an expansion or not.

Says the guy who has 24k ap and was able to play through an entire year of living story that is no longer accessible.

fellyn.5083:

Malediktus.9250:

I dont find the requirements insane. They are just impossible for the next 1-3 years depending if Anet brings an expansion or not.

Says the guy who has 24k ap and was able to play through an entire year of living story that is no longer accessible.

Its not my fault for playing since headstart.

Malediktus.9250:

fellyn.5083:

Malediktus.9250:

I dont find the requirements insane. They are just impossible for the next 1-3 years depending if Anet brings an expansion or not.

Says the guy who has 24k ap and was able to play through an entire year of living story that is no longer accessible.

Its not my fault for playing since headstart.

I didn’t say it was your fault. What I meant was that you think it’s fine because you’ve managed to get 24k ap after a year of living story that gave out AP like candy. AP that can’t be gotten anymore.

Then there is also the fact that you have more than 5 times as much ap as the average player. And yet you claim it will only take you another year or two, if an expansion is released.

The argument literally doesn’t make any sense and couldn’t be further from okay. Why should we have to wait that long to get these sets of armor?

Malediktus, if a new player approached you, who you knew without a shadow of a doubt to be a future hardcore AP hunter and asked you if it was fair for him to have to grind a full year longer than you did for the same armor set would you tell him tough luck?

Parts of the game that gave out large amounts of AP are gone, new players are at a disadvantage. This is one of several arguments posed in this thread to have this looked at. It’s a decent thread really, I’d hate to see it brushed aside.

fellyn.5083:

The argument literally doesn’t make any sense and couldn’t be further from okay. Why should we have to wait that long to get these sets of armor?

Also, why did they even create these armor skins if nobody currently can get them? It seems like wasted development time, that could’ve been spent creating more BLTC weapon skins

Isn’t there like an exploit like a year ago where people could earn tons of AP by salvaging alone? Yep, found it:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Is-there-an-Achievement-Points-Exploit

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/73890-achievement-points-over-5000-bugged-or/

Basically, people were getting past 10k AP since 2012. Pretty sure not all exploiters were caught and had their AP removed. I played since the headstart, but quitted for a year+, only came back to this game like 2 weeks ago, standing with 6.1k AP.

FateZero.8536:

Isn’t there like an exploit like a year ago where people could earn tons of AP by salvaging alone?

No, the salvage Ap got capped long ago (retroactively, so no, noone has any more AP from it that you can currently get).

Astralporing.1957:

FateZero.8536:

Isn’t there like an exploit like a year ago where people could earn tons of AP by salvaging alone?

No, the salvage Ap got capped long ago (retroactively, so no, noone has any more AP from it that you can currently get).

Oh, that’s good to know. At least ANet made sure nobody had unfair advantage.

Well, as a player with almost 25k AP, I agree to saying that the system is insane.
Considering that almost the whole playerbase won’t reach the goal to get a whole set of armor (33k AP), they should redesign the whole reward system.

Kinda over threads like this asking for rewards to be cheapened, even gargantuan ones like this.

Who knows what lies ahead? Maybe they expect this to be a reward for a mere handful of people still playing in 6-7+ years that played from day zero? Maybe they will offer up content, events or goals to lessen the requirements for such rewards in the future, like they did in GW1?

Maybe it’s only designed to be drooled over as one of the few rewards that will take a few years to attain and is truly for the devoted?

This thread just reeks of impatience over the fact something in this game is actually largely unattainable, even amongst the minority of hardcore players, with little thought to the fact it’s more than likely intended as a loooooonnnnngggg term reward.

I’ll never ever ever ever ever ever get it but I’m totally cool with that and games like this need such lofty heights and rewards imho.

Anyone else weighing in on the thread? I feel like another summary wouldn’t change much just yet, so I’ll bump this and see if people are still passionate about it.

This isn’t even on my radar. There are so many things that need to be fixed before this does that it’s not even top 50, seriously.

Granted, I remember when dailies were worth quite a lot more than they are now. And, as others have mentioned, living story APs seem to be drying up left and right. I wonder how people would feel if they’d pulled a “fractals” with APs and reset everyone to 0 when the reward system was introduced, just so there’d be a level playing field. Food for thought.

Oh, and people who say that hellfire and radiant are the only two non-gemstore armor sets added to the game since launch are also forgetting about all three ascended sets.

fireflyry.7023:

Kinda over threads like this asking for rewards to be cheapened, even gargantuan ones like this.

Who knows what lies ahead? Maybe they expect this to be a reward for a mere handful of people still playing in 6-7+ years that played from day zero? Maybe they will offer up content, events or goals to lessen the requirements for such rewards in the future, like they did in GW1?

Maybe it’s only designed to be drooled over as one of the few rewards that will take a few years to attain and is truly for the devoted?

This thread just reeks of impatience over the fact something in this game is actually largely unattainable, even amongst the minority of hardcore players, with little thought to the fact it’s more than likely intended as a loooooonnnnngggg term reward.

I’ll never ever ever ever ever ever get it but I’m totally cool with that and games like this need such lofty heights and rewards imho.

Argument doesn’t make any sense for lots of reasons that have been repeated several times in this thread.

Also no one has said these sets are supposed to be long term rewards. Just people like you. The only reason they are ordered the way they are is because that’s how they were added to the game.

Could any dev be kind enough to give us any kind of update? It would be nice to hear if you guys have any plans in changing the order those skins are handled to players. The way it is right now it is just a long road without an ending.

Agreeing with the OP, someone who really wants the entire set of which ever should be able to reach it; and 36k AP? People can’t sacrifice their day to day lives just to reach an insane amount of AP for a set, it’s just not gonna happen.

I’ve been playing since launch and nearing 10k AP, I personally would like the radiant chest, but 33k-36k would be asking me to quit my job (which I save $ occasionally to get things from the gemstore) and live off of hotpockets – No thanks. It needs to be a more realistic achievable number.

While I see the merit of getting a full set of Radiant or Hellfire before even starting a second set, I think it’s important to note that by the time you have enough AP to get the chest piece, you’ll have both the Radiant and Hellfire version of all of the other pieces, since it’s a choice. At 3k AP, you choose either Radiant or Hellfire gloves, and at 9k AP, you choose the one you don’t have (no sense in picking 2 Radiant gloves).

The method you propose allows a player to get only the Radiant armor first, and then start working on the Hellfire armor. I guess this is the more focused approach if a player wants only one of the sets and not both. For someone who wants both, the current method works well as it allows the player to get almost both full sets by the time they complete the first set at 33k AP.

Rashy.4165:

While I see the merit of getting a full set of Radiant or Hellfire before even starting a second set, I think it’s important to note that by the time you have enough AP to get the chest piece, you’ll have both the Radiant and Hellfire version of all of the other pieces, since it’s a choice. At 3k AP, you choose either Radiant or Hellfire gloves, and at 9k AP, you choose the one you don’t have (no sense in picking 2 Radiant gloves).

The method you propose allows a player to get only the Radiant armor first, and then start working on the Hellfire armor. I guess this is the more focused approach if a player wants only one of the sets and not both. For someone who wants both, the current method works well as it allows the player to get almost both full sets by the time they complete the first set at 33k AP.

Except that the last two pieces (legs and chest) are the pieces that are the most central (no pun intended) to any armor set.

It’s really a pity they didn’t offer it like they did the zenith weapons. You get shown the full sets for both and you pick and choose which one you want for that chest reward. It still is a major grind to get both sets but being able to get exactly what you want first is better.

Support!

I agree. The skins are way to hard for a game aimed at casual players. If anything, the track to get those skins is aimed at Korean/Japanese style grinding. I am also in the camp of picked Radiant arms because only partial set was out and at this point I would much rather have the Hellfire set. I wonder if I can file a ticket to get that unlock changed….

I would say make a full set available every 10k AP or so, much more obtainable for a casual player.

Not everything must be available to the casual player.

You still are a bit obsessed with the AP’s and your exclusivity, Malediktus.

I also played since headstart, and am at 17kAP now. never had much with PvP,
My AP’s come from PvE and some casual WvW (Roaming and PPT in BL’s)

I’m not an AP hunter though…

If HoT is released I Expect to earn another 8-10k AP in a year maybe 2, in Pve, and this should be enough for 1 Full set of armor.

If not who cares?… It’s not like it’s the only 2 armor sets available..

Oh and yes I got most if not all AP for all LS1 and missed some on some events. I have some problems ingame due to the fact I have epilepsy and cannot stay fully focussed at all times. (Making the aetherblade JP generally a 1 hour nightmare, and sometimes I finish it in 5, maybe 7 minutes), all timed content is a pain. I tried liadri 102 times the first time before I killed her, second Time I gave up after 87 tickets.

Not all people play with ease. Some seem somewhat more obsessed: AP is not a score it’s a checkoff list.

“Who cares? I’ll get there eventually!” said the turtle PaxTheGreatOne to the hare Malediktus.

Considering that the Medium Radiant looks like it adds large supple lady breast to males I lost interest in the set so isn’t much of a concern to me how hard it is to obtain. =o

To be honest, I lost interest in these sets ages ago. They look interesting and all, but not interesting enough to warrant the sheer amount of time and effort it would take to acquire them. If I have to play a few years just to get one set of armor, I’d expect that set to be exceptional, and I just don’t feel that the Radiant and Hellfire sets are that exceptional relative to other good looking armor sets we already get in the game, which all don’t take a few years to acquire.

And I’m sure by the time people have gotten to a point where they can acquire them, there will already be other, possibly even better armor sets that have come out, possibly even legendary armor sets. It really just doesn’t make sense to me. But, no biggie. I lose no sleep over it. XD

The only pieces of the sets that don’t look awful are the chest pieces. I’m getting close to my 17.5k chest, but I honestly don’t care about getting the armor skins. When I eventually get to the chests, that’ll be cool. But I prefer the gold, gems, account bonuses, and titles I get to the skins.

So how Many AP in the Expansion?

If the expansion is full priced, you would expect about 6k total available AP in the expansion plus expansion related living story.

APs for mastery grinding, new collections, new minipet collection, Specialization related Pvp (“Champion Druid”), redone WvW achievements, new map completion, new personal story…

& out of that 6k, probably a third wil be easy and a third super grindy.

So does an extra 2-4k AP from the expansion change the calculus of this thread?

At this rate we will never have those skins. Can we have an achievement reward rebalance like the suggested on this thread or at least more content/obtainable achievement points?

There are players that are maxing out their Daily and Monthly achievements in less than a month. What then? How many years we will have to wait to see those armors in game?

Since the past 130 days all we got were the Lunar Achievements which gave you 56 achievement points. Plus the Black Lion Weapon Collections that gives you 3AP each.

How bout the pinnacle ones?

Now that is impossible.

You guys do realize they plan on this game going for many more years right?

i winder why people think that anet is gonna keep the stuff they do always exactly the same as day one.
They are aware that AP is harder to get then anything else because of the limit to earn them. You have to come back into the game for something. (albeit a very bad reason to just want this skin)

nekretaal.6485:

So how Many AP in the Expansion?

If the expansion is full priced, you would expect about 6k total available AP in the expansion plus expansion related living story.

APs for mastery grinding, new collections, new minipet collection, Specialization related Pvp (“Champion Druid”), redone WvW achievements, new map completion, new personal story…

& out of that 6k, probably a third wil be easy and a third super grindy.

So does an extra 2-4k AP from the expansion change the calculus of this thread?

Even if you do EVERY achievement in the game, including the super grindy (and nearly impossible) WvW achievements, AND have all temporary APs already, the current maximum amount of APs is ~29k, a bit higher than 29k but lower than 30k. To finish a set you need 33k, to complete at least one of the sets.

So an extra 2-4k AP from the expansion doesn’t change much. Most players won’t reach 33k in their lifetime, even if the expansion adds 2-4k AP. Of course they could increase the daily cap up to 3k with HoT (add another 1.5k) but increasing the daily cap with expansions defeats the purpose of a cap in the first place.

Edit
I just noticed on the wiki page http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Achievement_rewards that you get a complete set at 30k and you don’t have to get both leggings before getting a chest. I’m sure it wasn’t like this when I checked some days ago.

That changes things, because the current cap is ~29k, meaning it’s impossible to get the chest, but even less than 1k APs from HoT will be enough to get full set. Then for every AP above 1k that HoT gives we will be able to bypass the impossible APs (like the WvW ones)

The difficulty here is that there are a lot of achievement points that are no longer obtainable. This presents a problem of its own for new players that they will never be able to catch up.

While the daily system being capped is a good thing, the fact that the monthly has been removed (however joined with the daily cap) means that it will take new players years to catch up just on the dailys alone.

While those currently at the cap for AP (daily) are not gaining anything on holiday dailys/regular dailys. Those that do, still have a very long time to go.

I believe the cap is currently 15k. While a lot of players are reaching this (I think) or getting close to, people like myself who at launch didn’t complete every daily and then took a large break from the game will have to complete dailys every day for the next 3 years to catch up.

1 years worth of break and missing out on nearly 1000 days worth of dailys seems to be a bit broken.(Due to monthly AP being unobtainable now) For new players this is even more of a concern

While I’m not saying new players should be able to instantly get up to 10/20/30k AP, there should be a viable way for them to achieve it in the same timeframe that those already at those numbers did. Currently, the AP gain is significantly slower and since there is no longer a way to complete LS1 achievements the new players are at an even greater disadvantage.

Considering the fact that this game is almost 3years old and not a single player have reached 33k AP proves it is not a viable target. Not even 29k for the Pinnacle weapons as our highest recorded AP player is at 27.8k. Eventually given enough time, a player would obtain the chest/pants piece. Eventually people also begin to care less about the game and move onto other mmorpgs.

uhohhotdog.3598:

You guys do realize they plan on this game going for many more years right?

You do realize, that there are still new players joining the game? Since the ability to gain APs was much bigger in the first year than it is now, and those sources are now gone, not accessible to new players, it will take much more time for them to get to that point. Assuming they ever do – i expect no more than a handful of people to ever get a full set. I also assume that most of them (if not all) will be players that started within first year of the game.

mcwurth.2081:

i winder why people think that anet is gonna keep the stuff they do always exactly the same as day one.

In this case, because yur argument has been repeated for a long time already, and yet nothing has changed. If anything, the rate of introducing new AP’s has significantly slowed down (and that is even without noticing that currently it’s not even slow, but simply stopped completely)

The only thing that could change the situation is if HoT offered some really huge amount of obtainable AP’s – in the range of 10k or better, and with none in the similar style as yakslapper.

Akikaze.1307:

Considering the fact that this game is almost 3years old and not a single player have reached 33k AP proves it is not a viable target. Not even 29k for the Pinnacle weapons as our highest recorded AP player is at 27.8k. Eventually given enough time, a player would obtain the chest/pants piece. Eventually people also begin to care less about the game and move onto other mmorpgs.

As I said above the current absolute maximum if you do EVERYTHING is 29202. So we need another 798 Achievement points from HoT to be able to complete the first set, then any points above the 798 will allow players to “skip” the most annoying APs of the game.

However, to get BOTH sets you will need 36k APs so to be fair I don’t think Anet added them to the game, so they are acquired after a SECOND expansion is released.

I think HoT will add at least 6k APs and with a couple of Living Story Achievements the top players could reach the second set.

Crystallize.8603:

The difficulty here is that there are a lot of achievement points that are no longer obtainable. This presents a problem of its own for new players that they will never be able to catch up.

There are exactly 4707 Historical Achievements, which include the entire LS1, holiday events like wintersday and discontinued achievements that are no longer available like the old miniature achievements. Someone who starts now will have 4707 less achievements for his maximum which means his current maximum is 24495, that’s barely enough to get the second pair of boots if you do nearly everything in the game. (second pair is at 24k) I’d say that’s ridiculous and needs some changing.

While the daily system being capped is a good thing, the fact that the monthly has been removed (however joined with the daily cap) means that it will take new players years to catch up just on the dailys alone.

I don’t think that’s a bad thing, at least new players have the CHANCE to catch up, unlike the situation with the historical achievements. Once the older players reach the daily cap, newer players will slowly catch up, unless Anet extends the cap with HoT, which is something I’m completely against.

While I’m not saying new players should be able to instantly get up to 10/20/30k AP, there should be a viable way for them to achieve it in the same timeframe that those already at those numbers did. Currently, the AP gain is significantly slower and since there is no longer a way to complete LS1 achievements the new players are at an even greater disadvantage.

However they’ve been adding extra dailies regularly allowing players to get 14-15 AP each day instead of 10 which significantly reduces the amount of time needed to reach the cap.

Regularly? 3 months ago is regularly…?

Please also note, even the most die hard WvW’ers don’t have all the WvW achievements maxed, not “that” many have all the PvP titles maxed (infact it’s probably less than 1% of pvp players)
These are players that have been playing since the start of the game too.

Those historical achievement points that were missed, also were during the time Monthly/Dailys gave achievement points (daily gave 12) so without those, the progression of AP right now is at the lowest it has probably ever been.

Also, for a new player, they have to purchase LS2 (invested gold sink) which slows the process down even more.

Saying that new players have a chance is a bit redundant imo.

While there is a daily cap, a new player now will take 5 years to get to the cap, whereas the game having been out less than 3 years people are already at the cap. – This somewhat seems wrong to me. I wouldn’t mind if a new player could catch up in the same time it took others, but now it takes nearly 2 years worth of dailys longer. (Will take probably 1 year longer due to holidays etc)

Crystallize.8603:

Regularly? 3 months ago is regularly…?

When we DID have releases we actually got extra dailies with them too. Last few months didn’t have any releases at all so I wasn’t counting them because without releases you can’t have the extra dailies. The point is, when they finally restart their releases they should add the extra dailies (based on that release) to increase APs to 14/day instead of 10.

That should be a good boost, I don’t think newer players should earn dailies at a faster rate than older players. It’s not like getting 12 AP per day was “normal”, or doing all monthlies each month, that took some significant amount of time every day, not to mention it required to play PVE, PVP AND WvW every day/month. Now you get 10 AP in 10-20 minutes but to get 12 with the old system you needed more than double that time and also invest in all play modes.

What do you expect with how much easier the new dailies are? To give new players the same amount of APs as the old system did, while requiring half the effort? Would that be fair?