What I and many others are asking for is this:
1. Large scaled grouped content (Instanced environment)
2. Aesthetic items exclusive to the raid. (Avenues for Ascended items)
3. Challenging encounters.
4. Guild rewards (Like Guild missions)
5. For it to be Elite content like Urgoz Warren or The Deep.
On these points Martin I wish to comment.
First off remember GW2 is suppose to be a community centric game. Admittedly I am not seeing the community. The formula I have placed out there; I believe; is the formula Anet had/has in mind for this game.
Instanced encounters; which most guilds now do and cater to; in my eyes is not community centric.
To me this is a form of elitism which Anet felt needed to go, but could only carry this desire so far since their main goal was to cater to as many playing styles as possible. So for the elitist we have the instances we now have in the game.
I myself am a more community minded person. My goals are lofty and maybe even unattainable. Still they points need to raised.
You even stated that my idea was “Good” even though in quotation marks. It was good because it was community centric. It placed guilds in command with the zerg as tool to be taken advantage of.
Can we get rid of zergs in an open world game like this? No, should we take advantage of it when we can? Most definitely.
Change of subject:
Some have stated that have been to the DEs beyond the temples. My question to that is how many people were involved and has anyone started documenting the webs and where can we find this documentation?
Although I agree that community is a main goal for the developers, I also think that building on interpersonal relationships with Guildmates,Friends etc is a fundamental aspect of that. Now I do not contend that it can only be done in “Instanced” content, but I do however believe that it would be the “Best” arrangement for those types of things. Having challenging and story driven content that can be done by a multitude of your friends in a closed environment emphasizes players to work together and have fun.
Playing instanced content doesn’t make you an elitist as you seem to stating here. You get the same rewards and benefits as people who play “only” do open world events. Arenanet is not trying to split the community between instanced and open content; The game is supposed to be centered around all types of players, not just the casual or the hardcore.
“My question to that is how many people were involved and has anyone started documenting the webs and where can we find this documentation?” How would I know that?
P.S – I always quote thing’s that are “can” be subjective or the topic of discussion.
If they didn’t want to copy other MMOs why add dungeons in the first place gw factions and nightfall had 0 dungeons they came in the awful eotn xpac, gw2 should just focus on de and open world loot and forget dungeons, add the challenge games from factions and night fall but If I wanted a dungeon farming game I know a few games that do them better.
I’m not sure what message you are trying to convey here, Are you opposed to “Instanced” content? Anyway, Factions and Nightfall both had dungeons. Factions had – The Deep and Urgoz Warren (Raid type) and Nightfall had the “Quest/Dungeon” – The Ebony Citadel of Mallyx (Raid type). Just because Eotn named them dungeons doesn’t mean that the previous instanced content were not dungeons. Also don’t forget about FoW,SF and The Underworld (Raid type).
Although I agree that community is a main goal for the developers, I also think that building on interpersonal relationships with Guildmates,Friends etc is a fundamental aspect of that. Now I do not contend that it can only be done in “Instanced” content, but I do however believe that it would be the “Best” arrangement for those types of things. Having challenging and story driven content that can be done by a multitude of your friends in a closed environment emphasizes players to work together and have fun.
Playing instanced content doesn’t make you an elitist as you seem to stating here. You get the same rewards and benefits as people who play “only” do open world events. Arenanet is not trying to split the community between instanced and open content; The game is supposed to be centered around all types of players, not just the casual or the hardcore.
“My question to that is how many people were involved and has anyone started documenting the webs and where can we find this documentation?” How would I know that?
P.S – I always quote thing’s that are “can” be subjective or the topic of discussion.
To answer your question. The change of subject was more of a generalist question not one aimed specifically toward you. I don’t know either that is why I was asking.
As to the guts of your reply:
I believe that the interpersonal relations and team work are something that is very obtainable in open world events. One of these is through the guilds forming DE raid groups. They go through the 26 zones and do every single DE in that zone seeing which are chains and which are single events.
This is done through a chat software and with someone the lead taking the group through these events. This can be done in Orr even better I believe. This keeps guilds active.
Right now they have guild missions which is the tip of the iceberg now they need to go the next step
Warriors are those who choose to stand between their enemy and all that he loves or hold sacred
Although I agree that community is a main goal for the developers, I also think that building on interpersonal relationships with Guildmates,Friends etc is a fundamental aspect of that. Now I do not contend that it can only be done in “Instanced” content, but I do however believe that it would be the “Best” arrangement for those types of things. Having challenging and story driven content that can be done by a multitude of your friends in a closed environment emphasizes players to work together and have fun.
Playing instanced content doesn’t make you an elitist as you seem to stating here. You get the same rewards and benefits as people who play “only” do open world events. Arenanet is not trying to split the community between instanced and open content; The game is supposed to be centered around all types of players, not just the casual or the hardcore.
“My question to that is how many people were involved and has anyone started documenting the webs and where can we find this documentation?” How would I know that?
P.S – I always quote thing’s that are “can” be subjective or the topic of discussion.
To answer your question. The change of subject was more of a generalist question not one aimed specifically toward you. I don’t know either that is why I was asking.
As to the guts of your reply:
I believe that the interpersonal relations and team work are something that is very obtainable in open world events. One of these is through the guilds forming DE raid groups. They go through the 26 zones and do every single DE in that zone seeing which are chains and which are single events.
This is done through a chat software and with someone the lead taking the group through these events. This can be done in Orr even better I believe. This keeps guilds active.
Right now they have guild missions which is the tip of the iceberg now they need to go the next step
Are you a Guildwars 1 player? If so what did you think of the “Raiding” content in that game? Did you think that it was a bad thing for Arenanet too do? Personally I loved it, and that why me and other veteran’s want to see “Raiding” content in GW2. “Everything you loved about Guildwars 1” This include’s the “Raiding” and Elite content we had in GW1. We simply want to reclaim an important facet of this great franchise.
Orr could be considered raids if the events required a strategy.
At the moment the more bodies you have to sacrifice, the better your chances of the event succeeding.
mindless zerging =/= raiding
This is exactly how I feel, no matter how you put it once an event start the masses will come. Which will ruin the experience for those who actually want a challenge.
These events in orr are very boring, which is why nobody does them.
Almost every raid in almost every other MMO is very boring too, the only thing that makes them interesting is Teamspeak.
Especially if the entire guild has been drinking margaritas. I remember doing Ouryu/BahamutV2 raids in FFXI at midnight on Saturdays with 30 guildmates and every man/woman involved was wasted. It was great. And we always won!
Onyx: Norn Guardian 80. Queen in Tatters: Asura Mesmer 80.
[The Flameseeker Prophecies] 4/11/13
Itinerant, no guild.
I’ve never done raids or anything, but I just want to say that Orr has a LOT of cool dynamic events that nobody does.
They are cool, but the rewards are just not good enough. Most of us need some kind of reward for time spent, a fundamental part of this type of game. Even the “For Fun” stuff like SAB had rewards worth getting.
If they didn’t want to copy other MMOs why add dungeons in the first place gw factions and nightfall had 0 dungeons they came in the awful eotn xpac, gw2 should just focus on de and open world loot and forget dungeons, add the challenge games from factions and night fall but If I wanted a dungeon farming game I know a few games that do them better.
You obviously didn’t play GW1 or you had blinders on. They did have dungeons.. They were called missions. Then you had Fissures of Woe, The Underworld… etc…
Are you a Guildwars 1 player? If so what did you think of the “Raiding” content in that game? Did you think that it was a bad thing for Arenanet too do? Personally I loved it, and that why me and other veteran’s want to see “Raiding” content in GW2. “Everything you loved about Guildwars 1” This include’s the “Raiding” and Elite content we had in GW1. We simply want to reclaim an important facet of this great franchise.
never got passed two weeks of playing GW the UI drove me nuts. So to answer your question no I didn’t
Warriors are those who choose to stand between their enemy and all that he loves or hold sacred
I’ve never done raids or anything, but I just want to say that Orr has a LOT of cool dynamic events that nobody does.
They are cool, but the rewards are just not good enough. Most of us need some kind of reward for time spent, a fundamental part of this type of game. Even the “For Fun” stuff like SAB had rewards worth getting.
to respond to this I have to bring in the quotes again:
“players’ focus in Orr will be on huge events”
“Everyone who participates in events gets rewarded at the end, and everyone could earn the best (gold) participation reward if they all helped in the event for most of its duration”
Can’t find the quote atm but know it exist; that the more people that participates the better the reward.
The reasons you may be getting poor rewards from Orr is because you may not have enough people involved to activate the correct link in the web that goes to a great reward.
Orr is a HUGE events venue. If you go in with 5 or even 20 this may not be enough to active the right response from the program.
Now if it sees 30 maybe but 50 I would say for sure you will get a response. Could 50 be called a zerg? Yes; if it has no central command system. But those that have raided know that 50 people under a central command system is not a zerg. That is what guilds and voice chat are for.
Warriors are those who choose to stand between their enemy and all that he loves or hold sacred
Are you a Guildwars 1 player? If so what did you think of the “Raiding” content in that game? Did you think that it was a bad thing for Arenanet too do? Personally I loved it, and that why me and other veteran’s want to see “Raiding” content in GW2. “Everything you loved about Guildwars 1” This include’s the “Raiding” and Elite content we had in GW1. We simply want to reclaim an important facet of this great franchise.
never got passed two weeks of playing GW the UI drove me nuts. So to answer your question no I didn’t
So would you state that you have an unsubstantiated bias about how Arenanet would implement “Raiding” content. Based on the “Raiding” content they’ve done in the past? And that merely working on only open world “Raid” content would be against their goals?(In the sense that they are improving on GW1 aspects)
wtf are post-temple DEs? Never heard of them. As our world holds sporatic temple events to open Bathlazar for example, for no better reason than legendary mats, which is often lightly attended, perhaps myself and others are badly lacking in an incentive to take these temples, which has gotton old to tell you the truth. What are alot of us missing?
@OP are you the same poster who was making similar claims in a previous post about players not “playing the game right”?
When endgame content is designed well, you don’t have to explain to people why they should be playing it, they will stay up for 24 hours+ straight for a chance TO play it and gain what it offers (I’m not saying that’s good or healthy, just that’s the sort of desire good endgame content generates).
If you have to explain where people “should” be playing, there’s a fairly obvious problem with the content. Come on, that’s almost too obvious to have to say.
wtf are post-temple DEs? Never heard of them. As our world holds sporatic temple events to open Bathlazar for example, for no better reason than legendary mats, which is often lightly attended, perhaps myself and others are badly lacking in an incentive to take these temples, which has gotton old to tell you the truth. What are alot of us missing?
Per Anet. more then half of the total Dynamic Events in this game are in Orr. All agree the do not see this many DEs up to the capturing of the temples.
Anet has state that the rest of the DEs are past the temples, thus the term "post-temple DEs.
These are huge DEs that are part of a web giving different ending and rewards.
P.S. Martin I will address your response later tonight. don’t have time at the moment.
Warriors are those who choose to stand between their enemy and all that he loves or hold sacred
I don’t think i’ve ever seen a coordinated raid in GW2… If you mean by Raid everyone zergs the boss till it dies in a lag fest, then yes Raiding exists in GW2..
But as others have said, the rewards, the total lack of anything we do affecting this place (orr) just gets old really fast.. even just getting to the places can be a pain and negates the awesome “porous bones” rewards…
If they didn’t want to copy other MMOs why add dungeons in the first place gw factions and nightfall had 0 dungeons they came in the awful eotn xpac, gw2 should just focus on de and open world loot and forget dungeons, add the challenge games from factions and night fall but If I wanted a dungeon farming game I know a few games that do them better.
You obviously didn’t play GW1 or you had blinders on. They did have dungeons.. They were called missions. Then you had Fissures of Woe, The Underworld… etc…
played it for 6 years yes I forget UW and FoW with warren and the deep, As for missions to even compare them to a dungeon is just meh missions were far more enjoyable than any GW2 dungeons remember Thunderhead Keep before the nerf ?, the joy of beating the crystal desert missons to kicking the lich’s butt indead of pressing 2 2 2 2 2 to kill the so called big bad in this game ? add that to the fact everything thing u did SOLO didn’t lead to party forced content grouping was optional. closes thing GW had to a dungeon before eotn was sorrows which again had a bit more life to it the way the challeges were set out. Sorrows did the multi way through a dungeon before gw2 also :P
but why play a mmo… why take away the need for groups in open world why remove mob tagging why remove node stealing…. forced party needs to end MMO massively multiplayer online < were does that say forced grouping as for the RPG part I play the role of a lone ranger there is your Role Playing Game.
I don’t think i’ve ever seen a coordinated raid in GW2… If you mean by Raid everyone zergs the boss till it dies in a lag fest, then yes Raiding exists in GW2..
But as others have said, the rewards, the total lack of anything we do affecting this place (orr) just gets old really fast.. even just getting to the places can be a pain and negates the awesome “porous bones” rewards…
per Anets own wording to get the good rewards from these DEs. You will need to have a coordinated raid, but as you said it has not been done. That is why I have made this this thread.
The programing is there for us do it, but none have.
The keys to Anets statements are “huge” and “coordinated”
Simply an lot of people and uncontrolled zergs will not work. If key parts are taken then lost the web is broken and you have to start over again
Warriors are those who choose to stand between their enemy and all that he loves or hold sacred
So would you state that you have an unsubstantiated bias about how Arenanet would implement “Raiding” content. Based on the “Raiding” content they’ve done in the past? And that merely working on only open world “Raid” content would be against their goals?(In the sense that they are improving on GW1 aspects)
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Since I have no knowledge of how things took place in GW I can’t make a definitive answer to that.
Having been in other MMOs that had both open and instanced raiding I can say that instanced become more elitist centered with major hardcore tendencies. For example if you are not active such and such amount of time and do not go on so many raids you will be removed from the guild.
When I read guilds only stating they do dungeons, fractal, spvp and wvw and include nothing else to the point of not even knowing that “DE” means “Dynamic Events” I see the same type of mentality.
Does this make me bias? I would say, “I guess so.”
Warriors are those who choose to stand between their enemy and all that he loves or hold sacred
So would you state that you have an unsubstantiated bias about how Arenanet would implement “Raiding” content. Based on the “Raiding” content they’ve done in the past? And that merely working on only open world “Raid” content would be against their goals?(In the sense that they are improving on GW1 aspects)
Since I have no knowledge of how things took place in GW I can’t make a definitive answer to that.
Having been in other MMOs that had both open and instanced raiding I can say that instanced become more elitist centered with major hardcore tendencies. For example if you are not active such and such amount of time and do not go on so many raids you will be removed from the guild.
When I read guilds only stating they do dungeons, fractal, spvp and wvw and include nothing else to the point of not even knowing that “DE” means “Dynamic Events” I see the same type of mentality.
Does this make me bias? I would say, “I guess so.”
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Instanced content may or may not lead to an “Elitist” mind set in some players. But that doesn’t seem to be a “Good” reason to not implement “Instanced” raiding. As you’ve stated before the personality is currently present in “Dungeon” goer’s. But does that mean Arenanet should not continue to make Dungeon content? Of course not, and the reason Guild Recruiters put what type of things they do, is not necessarily because they are “Elitist” it because people generally like to do this content. Their not getting an advantage over anyone else so I don’t see the reason or initiative for them to become “Elitist”.
Even if you ran dungeons everyday, and you like raids, and you raided everyday doesn’t make you an “Elitist” it just makes you a “Gamer”.
Well I feel we can both agree that there are varying degrees to the term “Gamer”
I would be considered one due to:
1) I have been in some type of MMO for 20+ years
2) I play daily for a min. of 3 hours (longer on weekends)
Is raiding be it instanced or open what I want to do more then anything else in the game? No. I just want to have that choice open to me.
Would I like to see guilds be more holistic in their game play and recruiting? Yes.
Do I want to be a guild leader or officer? been there done that can’t don’t want to destroy the enjoyment of the game ever again to for an unpaid 2nd job.
Is this a cultural change or the responsibility of the makers of the game? I feel it is more up to the community not the company.
After Colin’s post in the thread below I think there will be experimentation that will take place that may or may not make us all happy. Only time will tell
