Guild Wars 2

Jerus.4350:

Zalavaaris.5329:

Jerus.4350:

Zalavaaris.5329:

Jerus.4350:

Zalavaaris.5329:

StrangerDanger.3496:

I really don’t see how 10 man (raids? seems a bit small for a"raid") dungeon is going to scratch anyones itch for Raids.

Raids typically are the pinnacle of coordinated group efforts where everyone has an exact role to play, and needs to play that role near perfect for the instance to go well.

This game specializes in everyone running around DPS’ing stuff. There are no set healers or agro tanks really…those some can occasionally fill that roll slightly, for a short time.

Really I get why they are doing this, just I don’t think its going to be executed in a manner that will satisfy anyone who takes a break from this game to raid in another game.

They should be piling on content that is coordinated with how this game plays. Make more epic, insane, difficult, world events, designed for masses of people to complete…make some of those even more coordinated ect.

You cant have a proper raid when you lack the trinity. Skyforge did this (little know game that came out recently) and lacks a trinity system (less so than this game) and it was just coordinated DPS targeting…as you cant really do much more than that.

UNLESS…they have special items in the raid that actually allow someone to become a tank and healer (like a healing staff on the ground and a tank shield, that bestow unique skills for whoever equips them) which would be cheesy imo

This is exactly what I’m worried about. This game has proven to be a dps only free for all where the only coordination involves stacking for buffs and stunning the mobs or timing reflects/stealth timing. When I think raiding I think of a mechanic that introduces a debuff that when cleansed takes 50% health from you but if let to expire will one shot you. It’s those kind of mechanics that if not dealt with via coordination and assigned debuff removal that will transcend what gw2 pvers think about when they think pve. That’s just one example of a true raid mechanic and there needs to be multiple of those per fight (some more harsh than others) to make this a real raiding experience.

No reason we can’t get those types of things. But as Colin said I think they want to focus less on UI watching and more on the on screen stuff. So you get an Aura (with a debuff icon just in case) that if not treated will down you on the spot (or kill?) to cleanse you need to go into an area with a caustic fog that damages you while in, make it a decent amount of damage(probably % based honestly) such that your trip in will leave you having to expend your personal heal and still come out low health, this promotes team healing, either through coordination with Ele/Engi’s standing nearby to rotate water fields for people to blast as they come out or maybe just a healing focused guardian or revenent.

The system is much broader and better than what we’ve seen with our current set of content.

Imagine this. Same debuff I suggested. In this scenario someone needs to cleanse the condition. Everyone has their own condition removal but personal skill comes into play when deciding when to cleanse it. If you are bad and cleanse your own condition when you’re at 30% health because you panic…. Guess what… you’re dead. The best way to do this (and in my dreams 2 people get the debuff at the same time) would to be to make sure the two affected players heal up as much as they can, at the same time have an ele drop water, have a necro cleanse both people of their debuffs at once and immediately stack and blast water to heal everyone up. There’s a lot of coordination in that scenario and it will shake up the dps all the time mentality. But you totally get the idea. I see more group synergy in wvw than pve. They coordinate their burst, their healing, their position (it’s not stationary), among other things. For some reason I think wvw players will excel at raids better than meta pvers at least at the start.

Only problem I see with that is how many things have innate cleansing mechanics. Especially healing effects. I mean it sounds fun, but I just worry that would require certain professions not just certain roles as certain professions.

I have my money on one of the European dungeon speed run guilds, like SC, rT, or vC or one of those to get the first win.

You are EXACTLY right. Those innate cleanse mechanics need to be thought about. It will switch up what skills and traits are good for certain boss fights. And the cleanses will still be good but the timing needs to match. That’s where the skill comes into play
Too much of this game is innate like you just said and in order for this raid to feel like a Raid it needs to be taken into consideration.

I hear ya, I’m with you, my worry was that your example might leave certain professions incapable of contributing. That’s something ANet stressed and I agree with, allowing different professions to fill the different roles such as to not need an Ele or need a Warrior or whatever. Certainly though having to have the forethought to not use Healing Turret because of the innate cleanse is the type of intricacy a raid should have.

I agree, sadly the balance of these raids and how professions can contribute is their burden to bare.

Protip: Use a mechanic that randomly separate players into two to three teams. Limit job classes to 3 per team. No more easy mode for you.

MikaHR.1978:

I didnt hear more about more zones coming, more story coming, more PvP goodies coming nope.

I just heard that living story will move to raids. Which means SERIOUS money investment for miniscule part of population.

They said that the living world would of course continue. You can expect to see what you would normally see out of the living world. Creating a living world has always been their goal, so don’t expect it to go anywhere.

Raids will simply see new bosses as the living world continues. They’ll probably only add 1 every few months however. It’ll probably just end up being a single boss in a box to reduce the cost (think Tequatl in an instance). I don’t expect it to last long however due to a lack of participation.

How does Anet Justify Raids? We need group content that isn’t just Fractals or Dungeons (which have just turned into Zerker speed farms), that’s how.

We have tons of different stat sets to play with—let’s hope we get PvE content that actually rewards gear diversity.

Player retention probably, harder content that takes longer to get through, keep pushing out said content over the space of months so people don’t walk away. Like bringing the raid out 2 weeks later than the actual expansion, no one will blow through it Day 1.

MattyP.6954:

How does Anet Justify Raids? We need group content that isn’t just Fractals or Dungeons (which have just turned into Zerker speed farms), that’s how.

We have tons of different stat sets to play with—let’s hope we get PvE content that actually rewards gear diversity.

Who is “we”?

You mean 95% of people that never/once in a blue moon come to the forums and dont give a rats kitten about raids?

Nope.

Sicarius.4639:

Player retention probably, harder content that takes longer to get through, keep pushing out said content over the space of months so people don’t walk away. Like bringing the raid out 2 weeks later than the actual expansion, no one will blow through it Day 1.

So why are all games that used to bet on raids to retain players moving away form them?

Or as TSW and AoC, almost closing shop and desperately trying to sell whatever little of developer studio is left?

Wldstar?

SWTOR?

LOTRO?

Even WoW? THE raiding game?

MikaHR.1978:

MattyP.6954:

How does Anet Justify Raids? We need group content that isn’t just Fractals or Dungeons (which have just turned into Zerker speed farms), that’s how.

We have tons of different stat sets to play with—let’s hope we get PvE content that actually rewards gear diversity.

Who is “we”?

…all of the OPs and others on the forum who have been asking for “Challenging Group Content”? You’re a Forum QQ Warrior, I’ve sure you’ve seen the posts.

Dinks.2478:

I think people who join speedruns and lie about their gear should be banned for abusing the LFG. Nicest community my kitten , this sort of behavior is something expected of children. And encouraging it on the forums should be a suspension. It is encouraging toxic behavior towards others in the community. Lying and ruining other peoples runs because you can’t be bothered to join a group that isn’t speed running. You want the benefit of all the people wearing zerker and running meta builds but you don’t want to put in the effort to do those things yourself so you piggy back off of others who do and then slow them down out of spite and laziness.

Lol, that is both elitist and brash all at once. With the same justification, I could demand the banning of people that join come as you are groups in zerker and constantly berate people there why this is superior to that. After all, they provide services and benefits to you too, that you deem these inferior is not their problem but yours then.

MikaHR.1978:

Sicarius.4639:

Player retention probably, harder content that takes longer to get through, keep pushing out said content over the space of months so people don’t walk away. Like bringing the raid out 2 weeks later than the actual expansion, no one will blow through it Day 1.

So why are all games that used to bet on raids to retain players moving away form them?

What is this metric? Where are the statistics? What about games that don’t have raids? How many people have moved from them? Given raiding is a rather small part of 90% of all games, I’d say people moved away from more games without raids than those with.

MikaHR.1978:

Seera.5916:

MikaHR.1978:

Kaiden Valor.7163:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/cdi/CDI-Guilds-Raiding

What other MMOs are doing doesn’t really matter, GW2 players (not all, but enough for it to be worth it) wanted raiding or something similar. It also helps them market to players from other MMOs who like raiding.

I don’t really see what needs justifying here…

Ooooh, ill just point you to Wildstars “players” that insisted on hardcore raiding.

Guess where Wildstar is now.

Sure, if you want to make less people play, you can just make raids.

I didnt hear more about more zones coming, more story coming, more PvP goodies coming nope.

I just heard that living story will move to raids. Which means SERIOUS money investment for miniscule part of population.

And who says the raids will be hardcore raids? It’s a little too early to really tell if raids will be something a majority do or if they will fade into the background like dungeons currently do once a majority of players have the rewards from it.

They boasted “challenging PvE content”. You think they didnt mean raids when they said that?

What do you think, that raiders from WoW will mass quit and come play GW2?

I said they may not be hardcore raids. And we don’t really know what ANet means by raids. So complaining that they are sinking money into something only a small portion will ever do is premature at this point.

Having Legendary gear that can transform stats at will is a major advantage, and anyone who doesn’t think so is fooling themselves. The fact of the matter is once you have the set you are covered for gear in any possible scenario so having this will be an advantage over other players who don’t raid, simple as that.

I agree traditional dungeons are a big piece glitchy exploity hell.

Yet they are not designed bad at all. All of the encounters are fun and challenging if you omit using glitches, exploits or just any of them barn-sized insta-gib loopholes in the present mechanics.
It sometimes actually is super fun to just play a dungeon no-skip/no-exploit/fullclear.
And some other time you just want that gold and just say wtf this group is competent enough so lets just gogogo quick this.
Yet I think it was the right decision of ANet to not fix the old dungeons so that they can no longer be played the fast way if you choose so.
Other vendors have always tried to “fix” their products after release whenever a play style arose that “we did not intend you to play it this way”. But what for ? If people like speedrunning/glitching/exploiting/making lupi explode let them, for they find amusement in it. This does not invalidate the entertainment you can get by just playing it without these methods if you choose so.

The only downside that I can find is that we have lots of vocal voices around that tend to try to push on their understanding of “how you must play X” onto others.
And the for example the LFG tools isn’t yet sophisticated enough to let players make their interests clear and give them proper info to make a good decision which group to join.
Just make the LFG tool more sophisticated, pop it out of that Social-Window, give it its own top menu button and a good big graphical UI that will have premade tag selections and multiple target queuing, so you can sing up for dungeon A,B and C at the same time and just see for which one a group of your liking can be made the fastest.
In order to keep the premade tag selection always up to date use the community process so that player can suggest new tags for popular interest flavors.
Also put explanations for those tags into that window so new players are now longer confused when being kicked from a group they just joined because they didn’t really know what make of that cryptic “Px W/E/T/Meta Asc/Ping” hieroglyphs in party announce.

Draknar.5748:

Seera.5916:

I fully agree that the gear one uses doesn’t determine if one can speed clear or not. It’s why the true speed clear groups who intend to PUG don’t always kick players who they see aren’t doing max DPS. Because they know that it’s not the gear that makes the speed clear.

And he doesn’t prove anything to the players that matter: the ones he lies to. Because he lied to them. They think he’s wearing zerk gear.

Well, he proves it to himself I guess lol. Maybe after the run he dramatically unveils he’s been wearing Cleric’s gear all along!

And the final reveal? “Oh, we thought you were just bad, but now we know your gear is bad instead. No wonder that was 10 minutes slower than usual.”

And yes, people who join anybody welcome groups and then harass people about running a specific thing should be banned. It is downright rude and a blatant disrespect for the LFG system. So get over yourself and stop ruining runs for people.

Torolan.5816:

Dinks.2478:

I think people who join speedruns and lie about their gear should be banned for abusing the LFG. Nicest community my kitten , this sort of behavior is something expected of children. And encouraging it on the forums should be a suspension. It is encouraging toxic behavior towards others in the community. Lying and ruining other peoples runs because you can’t be bothered to join a group that isn’t speed running. You want the benefit of all the people wearing zerker and running meta builds but you don’t want to put in the effort to do those things yourself so you piggy back off of others who do and then slow them down out of spite and laziness.

Lol, that is both elitist and brash all at once. With the same justification, I could demand the banning of people that join come as you are groups in zerker and constantly berate people there why this is superior to that. After all, they provide services and benefits to you too, that you deem these inferior is not their problem but yours then.

And did he say that those players shouldn’t be punished? Don’t assume because he doesn’t if say one group should or should not be punished the same way as another group that he thinks they shouldn’t be punished.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Having Legendary gear that can transform stats at will is a major advantage, and anyone who doesn’t think so is fooling themselves. The fact of the matter is once you have the set you are covered for gear in any possible scenario so having this will be an advantage over other players who don’t raid, simple as that.

Once we hit this point, where do we go from there? I’m very curious to see what incentive a player has once they have everything.

MikaHR.1978:

Vesuvius.9874:

MikaHR.1978:

So, content that pretty much all other MMOs are slowly but surely dropping, content that only 5% of the playerbase does….

How does one justify spending ANY money on that.

5%? Do you have a source for that number? You may want to justify your claim first.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/

And LOTRO was all about raiding.

They abandoned raids and dont make them AT ALL any more.

Situation isnt different in other games, based on available data.

The do make most noise on forums though.

Since when the hell did GW2 turn their selling point to “RAID FOCUSED GAME”

Newsflash kitten,. theres only 1 raid confirmed with maybe 2 more in the future through LS ? So MAYBE, MAYBE we might see 2-3 different raids in an ENTIRE YEAR

This ain’t a flipping raiding game and it won’t be unless tons of ppl are doing it and enjoying it, but according to your statistics pulled out of your rear, only 5% can do it.

GW2’s endgame is NOT raiding. You think ppl will just farm a raid daily? do you even know how the heck raids work? You think they will be open every day, every second for it to become farmable as the endgame go to place like silverwastes is?

Next time you have a thought, let it go.

PvP, WvW and open world PvE is going to remain the main attractions in this game. THAT is where everyone is spending their time. Raids aren’t going to become some 24/7 farmable spot where 5% of the population will be spending their time and getting rich and better looking stuff than the rest of the playerbase… Thats ridiculous.

Raids just add a different attraction to the theme park. Instanced content hasn’t been strong in this game since anet killed dungs and only worked on fractals. This at least adds one more piece so players can do more instanced stuff every now and then. They would not add it if they felt it wasn’t needed.

If you had an ounce of logic, you could easily tell what the justification is for adding raids.

If you don’t want to to do it, thats fine, but you seem to have a serious problem with anet spending resources on something YOU personally didn’t want but others seem fine with it.

Guess what buddy, anet is not required to 100% satisfy your needs. They want to do whats best for the overall game, not “what does Mika want, lets just add what he wants!”

Well, the game doesn’t really have many things you can do together as a guild, and in addition people have been asking for harder content so that you don’t just go “stack here, exploit this mechanic/attack/horrible AI”. The world bosses could be looked at as raids I guess but those are just on farm status now since the Megaserver update and most of them hardly ever fail since they weren’t designed to have so many players congregated at once. Example mega destroyer. i just hope Anet learned from their mistakes in Vanilla GW2, which judging from what little I played of the first BWE, seems like they did.

Jerus.4350:

Aye, I feel they’re a bit disingenuous with the whole “no treadmill” thing. Sure we’re not dropping off our old armor every few weeks but we do have our AR progression system and we’re getting masteries which some already sound like “you must be this tall” barriers to entry. I don’t know, maybe I just misinterpreted the “no treadmill” thing initially but not a big fan of barriers to content that aren’t purely skill based.

I think part of that has to do with how Arena.net defines the terms they use, which sometimes are oddly different than how the gamer community has come to define them (an example; how Arena.net defines “grind” in their famed manifesto in relation to how gamers would normally define “grind”).

In this case, Arena.net is using “treadmill” to refer to a very specific form of progression, while at the same time using different systems to pretty much the exact same effect.

This sort of pedantry is hardly new for them, as they used that sort of nitpicking in Guild Wars 1 as well (talking proudly about their lack of vertical progression while at the exact same time having players grind reputation for skills that… you guessed it… gave you vertically progressive numbers the more you ground the reputation).

SkiTz.4590:

MikaHR.1978:

Vesuvius.9874:

MikaHR.1978:

So, content that pretty much all other MMOs are slowly but surely dropping, content that only 5% of the playerbase does….

How does one justify spending ANY money on that.

5%? Do you have a source for that number? You may want to justify your claim first.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/

And LOTRO was all about raiding.

They abandoned raids and dont make them AT ALL any more.

Situation isnt different in other games, based on available data.

The do make most noise on forums though.

Since when the hell did GW2 turn their selling point to “RAID FOCUSED GAME”

Newsflash kitten,. theres only 1 raid confirmed with maybe 2 more in the future through LS ? So MAYBE, MAYBE we might see 2-3 different raids in an ENTIRE YEAR

This ain’t a flipping raiding game and it won’t be unless tons of ppl are doing it and enjoying it, but according to your statistics pulled out of your rear, only 5% can do it.

GW2’s endgame is NOT raiding. You think ppl will just farm a raid daily? do you even know how the heck raids work? You think they will be open every day, every second for it to become farmable as the endgame go to place like silverwastes is?

Next time you have a thought, let it go.

PvP, WvW and open world PvE is going to remain the main attractions in this game. THAT is where everyone is spending their time. Raids aren’t going to become some 24/7 farmable spot where 5% of the population will be spending their time and getting rich and better looking stuff than the rest of the playerbase… Thats ridiculous.

Raids just add a different attraction to the theme park. Instanced content hasn’t been strong in this game since anet killed dungs and only worked on fractals. This at least adds one more piece so players can do more instanced stuff every now and then. They would not add it if they felt it wasn’t needed.

If you had an ounce of logic, you could easily tell what the justification is for adding raids.

If you don’t want to to do it, thats fine, but you seem to have a serious problem with anet spending resources on something YOU personally didn’t want but others seem fine with it.

Guess what buddy, anet is not required to 100% satisfy your needs. They want to do whats best for the overall game, not “what does Mika want, lets just add what he wants!”

Best for overall game is not to spend resources on raids.

Sicarius.4639:

Once we hit this point, where do we go from there? I’m very curious to see what incentive a player has once they have everything.

For the content. I have always said this special snowflake syndrome is just pandering to elitism simple as that. It makes no sense to pigeon hold any advantage to one style of content because it just creates divides in your player base and compounds elitist behavior. There is no reason to do this, if you want raids you got them why do you need to have any advantage to complete them? Make the gear available everywhere and those who prefer to do this content get them that way and those who don’t get them the way they like…hence “play the way you want”.

Dinks.2478:

Draknar.5748:

Seera.5916:

I fully agree that the gear one uses doesn’t determine if one can speed clear or not. It’s why the true speed clear groups who intend to PUG don’t always kick players who they see aren’t doing max DPS. Because they know that it’s not the gear that makes the speed clear.

And he doesn’t prove anything to the players that matter: the ones he lies to. Because he lied to them. They think he’s wearing zerk gear.

Well, he proves it to himself I guess lol. Maybe after the run he dramatically unveils he’s been wearing Cleric’s gear all along!

And the final reveal? “Oh, we thought you were just bad, but now we know your gear is bad instead. No wonder that was 10 minutes slower than usual.”

And yes, people who join anybody welcome groups and then harass people about running a specific thing should be banned. It is downright rude and a blatant disrespect for the LFG system. So get over yourself and stop ruining runs for people.

If they were 10min behind on a speedrun, they would have figured something was up long before the end of the run. Someone would have likely started watching skill rotations of each player to see who the weak link was (unless they are the weak link, dun dun duuunnnnn). It’s very easy to tell who isn’t pulling their weight if you watch each player. Which should only be done in the strictest of speedruns, when clear expectations were established in the LFG.

I don’t think anyone was suggesting that people should be harassed in “anybody welcome” groups. I’ve never heard of people doing that in general. That’s a quick way to get booted, that’s for sure. My rule is, if I say “all welcome, meta not required, relaxed run”, then you can do whatever the heck you want. Usually it attracts experienced, skilled players who are like-minded in our dislike of elitists, but sometimes it attracts some BAD players. Worst case scenario after a ton of wipes, I will gracefully bow out and move on. I’d rather kick myself out than someone else in an all welcome group.

I’ve had plenty of friends leave GW2 for other games, with most leaving during LS S2; some went so far as to sell their accounts with no intention of ever returning, which I do not recommend.

I really do hope HoT goes beyond our current expectations and lives up to all the hype, because unfortunately I personally don’t think the current general impression of HoT is enough to bring back the majority of veterans who quit for other games.

It might be too little too late for a good percentage of players who already gave up on GW2, but I’m sticking with GW2 no matter what since it’s a fantastic game that deserves my attention.

MikaHR.1978:

SkiTz.4590:

MikaHR.1978:

Vesuvius.9874:

MikaHR.1978:

So, content that pretty much all other MMOs are slowly but surely dropping, content that only 5% of the playerbase does….

How does one justify spending ANY money on that.

5%? Do you have a source for that number? You may want to justify your claim first.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/03/turbine-raiders-make-up-the-smallest-player-group-in-lotro/

And LOTRO was all about raiding.

They abandoned raids and dont make them AT ALL any more.

Situation isnt different in other games, based on available data.

The do make most noise on forums though.

Since when the hell did GW2 turn their selling point to “RAID FOCUSED GAME”

Newsflash kitten,. theres only 1 raid confirmed with maybe 2 more in the future through LS ? So MAYBE, MAYBE we might see 2-3 different raids in an ENTIRE YEAR

This ain’t a flipping raiding game and it won’t be unless tons of ppl are doing it and enjoying it, but according to your statistics pulled out of your rear, only 5% can do it.

GW2’s endgame is NOT raiding. You think ppl will just farm a raid daily? do you even know how the heck raids work? You think they will be open every day, every second for it to become farmable as the endgame go to place like silverwastes is?

Next time you have a thought, let it go.

PvP, WvW and open world PvE is going to remain the main attractions in this game. THAT is where everyone is spending their time. Raids aren’t going to become some 24/7 farmable spot where 5% of the population will be spending their time and getting rich and better looking stuff than the rest of the playerbase… Thats ridiculous.

Raids just add a different attraction to the theme park. Instanced content hasn’t been strong in this game since anet killed dungs and only worked on fractals. This at least adds one more piece so players can do more instanced stuff every now and then. They would not add it if they felt it wasn’t needed.

If you had an ounce of logic, you could easily tell what the justification is for adding raids.

If you don’t want to to do it, thats fine, but you seem to have a serious problem with anet spending resources on something YOU personally didn’t want but others seem fine with it.

Guess what buddy, anet is not required to 100% satisfy your needs. They want to do whats best for the overall game, not “what does Mika want, lets just add what he wants!”

Best for overall game is not to spend resources on raids.

That’s about the rebuttal I expected from someone like you. I see you put as much thought in that as you did your main post.

When did you become a knowledgeable game director that knows what to do with resources?? I didn’t realize you had such experiences, guiding a game and knowing whats best for it!

get off your high horse.

It maybe best for YOUR version of the game for anet to not spend resources on raids….

Luckily this isn’t your game. If you don’t like it, bye.

TexZero.7910:

They’ve already stated like 5000 times….

No gear treadmill or invalidation.

Yes a new shiny is coming, but it is just that a shiny. Not a stat stick.

Having Legendary gear that can transform stats at will is a major advantage, and anyone who doesn’t think so is fooling themselves. The fact of the matter is once you have the set you are covered for gear in any possible scenario so having this will be an advantage over other players who don’t raid, simple as that.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Sicarius.4639:

Once we hit this point, where do we go from there? I’m very curious to see what incentive a player has once they have everything.

For the content. I have always said this special snowflake syndrome is just pandering to elitism simple as that. It makes no sense to pigeon hold any advantage to one style of content because it just creates divides in your player base and compounds elitist behavior. There is no reason to do this, if you want raids you got them why do you need to have any advantage to complete them? Make the gear available everywhere and those who prefer to do this content get them that way and those who don’t get them the way they like…hence “play the way you want”.

This has nothing to do with my question, so I’ll clarify. Once we have Legendary gear and we can change stats at will and need nothing else, what do we then reward a player with in any part of the game? I feel like you’re “complete” is it just skins after that? I guess it could be seeing as that is currently the end-game / source of income for Anet via the store.

But as for what you’re saying, if you can get Legendary gear doing whatever you like (which I have no problem with) then ascended will become void (particularly with crafting) why go through all those hoops when you can go get Legendary instead?

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Having Legendary gear that can transform stats at will is a major advantage, and anyone who doesn’t think so is fooling themselves. The fact of the matter is once you have the set you are covered for gear in any possible scenario so having this will be an advantage over other players who don’t raid, simple as that.

And that advantage goes away when you realize that stat swapping usually requires a rune change…

Raids are dungeons, or instanced content, we already have that in the game, do we not like having this?

Allow 5 more people in, increase health of mobs, bang I’ve made a Raid.

ANet seems to know their overall player base and what their activities are pretty well.
So whatever content they make and whatever name is slapped onto it, I am pretty sure they will have made sure that it will be a wise decision from a budget spent vs. amount of player attraction gained point of view.
You know they want to make money by selling them game and they want as many people to enjoy it, so they will not only buy the pack but also have real good feeling by buying some more quaggan back packs.
The business model pretty much makes sure that ANet can only gain from content that will be viable entertainment for most customers, and so far they have been pretty good addressing issues by not repeating old mistakes. For example not “fixing” dungeons to only be played the slow way was a proper strategical decision, you just need to look at it after taking a few steps back looking at the larger picture.

every1 is noob i m pro i solo fotm50 this game is so ez a 3yr old can do it. u think fractals and dungeons are hard omg haha noobs its like no challenge at all whatsoever do u even play this game my grandma can solo lupi i mean omg you guys so ez

^^ That’s how a lot of you guys sound right now.

What i REALLY think needs to happen is that bosses last longer than 40 seconds. These raids should not end up a question of how FAST can we clear it but if we can clear it at all. Bosses should take 6-7 minutes for a perfect run and should NOT be burstable like current “meta” speed clears.

ForeverAway.5948:

we have dungeon and fractals alredy and there too hard and create the zerkermeta

pls no more it will ruin the game for me. More zerkmeta wont be beter

Get out.

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Having Legendary gear that can transform stats at will is a major advantage, and anyone who doesn’t think so is fooling themselves. The fact of the matter is once you have the set you are covered for gear in any possible scenario so having this will be an advantage over other players who don’t raid, simple as that.

Except that runes don’t change with the stats making the stat-swapping pointless. Same reason nobody uses the stat-swapping on their weapons with sigils.

Seera.5916:

Vlad Morbius.1759:

Having Legendary gear that can transform stats at will is a major advantage, and anyone who doesn’t think so is fooling themselves. The fact of the matter is once you have the set you are covered for gear in any possible scenario so having this will be an advantage over other players who don’t raid, simple as that.

And that advantage goes away when you realize that stat swapping usually requires a rune change…

Not to mention you can also change ascended gear stats to fit your new builds now…
also not to mention 100% of this games PvE (minus high lvl frac)is EASILY completeable in exotics, which are dirt cheap anyways….

Stat swap on armor is just a very expensive QOL change that isn’t a serious advantage….

How often would you even stat swap anyways?? your in zerk 90-100% of the time in pve (unless your one of those that like playing different junk like cleric support/condis, but you can still easily just have a cheap set of that gear in exotics with much less hassle than grinding the raid)….

Unless you are hardcore WvW roamer and a constant build tweaker, its not that big of an advantage….

If you honestly believe to be at a disadvantage because you don’t have legendary armor…. than I have no clue what to say…. you do realize its the same stats as ascended right?? There is NO statistical advantage and just a MINOR quality of life benefit….

I’m not seeing the “major” advantage here. Its just a QOL bonus thats reasonably good, but not 100% required to do ANYTHING in this game….

Players who organize a team for raids will judge you if you followed what was written in the meta bible or not.

Again. Use a mechanic that randomly separate players into two to three teams. Limit job classes to 3 per team. No more easy mode for you.

dungeons and fractals didn’t create the zerk meta.

Players created the zerk meta because they realized “hey, this is easier and faster if we just all speed clear”

Hello CoF p1

MikaHR.1978:

Doam.8305:

Dude just likes to spit in other peoples lemonade is all and there are indeed people like that in this world and in Gw2. Raid system benefits those people who like to raid and does absolutely nothing to those who dislike raiding as it’s not needed for anything since this game has multiple methods to unlock items as is and that won’t change for raids.

So because people simply don’t like raids full well knowing they can simply just ignore them they go about spitting in everyone elses glass of lemonade.

Wildstar all over again. SWTOR all over again. Rift all over again. TSW all over again.

Listing games that started with a Sub doesn’t actually prove your point at all. Wildstar, SWTOR, and Rift didn’t provide enough content to deserved there subs and people left and each one eventually had to go free to play. Wildstar is dropping its sub in the fall which is also owned by NCsoft as well which probably played into Gw2 going F2p. Games like WoW/FF14 prove without a doubt that casual/elitePve/elitePvp/Rpcrowd can all get along in an MMO just fine.

This game never started with a sub and with such low expectations adding a feature isn’t going to spell the end for this game at all people as I stated before just love to hate/troll on people when their happy and the people who want raids are happy right now If you don’t like raids then don’t do them. Gear in this game is all baseline to rarity anyway.

HaxTester.9816:

Again. Use a mechanic that randomly separate players into two to three teams. Limit job classes to 3 per team. No more easy mode for you.

Yeah I loved that one in GW1’s ice elite dungeon too.

I swear topics like these are just as bad as the people in FF14 who kittened about there being two versions of the latest raid, an easier story mode and the actual raid mode, because they personally had no interest in the story mode.

MikaHR.1978:

Sicarius.4639:

Player retention probably, harder content that takes longer to get through, keep pushing out said content over the space of months so people don’t walk away. Like bringing the raid out 2 weeks later than the actual expansion, no one will blow through it Day 1.

So why are all games that used to bet on raids to retain players moving away form them?

Or as TSW and AoC, almost closing shop and desperately trying to sell whatever little of developer studio is left?

Wldstar?

SWTOR?

LOTRO?

Even WoW? THE raiding game?

Wild Star: Full over over-tuned fights, terrible optimization at launch, warplots turned out to not be what everyone was hoping etc etc. Wild Star suffered from a lot of issues, raiding itself wasn’t the issue. It was the 100% focus on raiding combined with every other issue that killed it. GW2 clearly does not have a 100% focus on raiding so your argument fails here.

SWTOR: Had a ton of money thrown at it for voice acting, cut scenes etc. It was super expensive and they expected the Star Wars brand to rake in the cash. Basically nothing that actually would keep the game afloat. While nice, SWTOR is an example of mismanaged resources during development.

AoC: No experience with is, so can’t say.

TSW: Very niche title, extremely boring combat (terrible animations for example). Here, despite the extremely rich story and world, the actual gameplay is what made it suffer.

LoTR: No experience with this beyond about 10 minutes, stopped playing because tbh I thought it was ugly as sin. So can’t comment on this one.

WoW: Suffering from old age, it was and still is the top dog in the MMO world. If you deny that, then there is really no point in talking about what makes an MMO fail and succeed with you. There’s a reason calling something a “WoW Killer” is never done anymore, people finally understand the only thing that can kill WoW is time itself.

Now, a game you strangely did not mention. Final Fantasy 14. This game has content for all levels of player. Casual, hard core and the people in between and you know what? It’s working, Final Fantasy 14 is growing more and more. It will never be as strong as WoW once was, but it is growing. This content approach is what Anet appears to be trying and that’s the best possible scenario for all styles of play.

MikaHR.1978:

So, content that pretty much all other MMOs are slowly but surely dropping, content that only 5% of the playerbase does….

How does one justify spending ANY money on that.

Of course I don´t know the reason why the introduced them, only Anet knows why they went that way. The scenarios I can imagine are:
a) To finally shut up the raider community, so that they only have to fend of the smaller GvG community
b) Because everyone has raids in the game and Anet could not be any longer the special snowflake
c) Shareholders demanded more money, and that requireds an action to be done, stupid or a stroke of genius does not matter then when people try to save their sorry behind from getting bootet.
d) A convincing chart from some PR or accounting guy showed them that it would bring customers. also known as “we need a band aid, and we need it quick”
e) The President/CEO falling out of favor with shareholders is now trying to bid for forgiveness with them by making the game more mainstreeam
f) ls2 did not sell as intended.

Doam.8305:

MikaHR.1978:

Doam.8305:

Dude just likes to spit in other peoples lemonade is all and there are indeed people like that in this world and in Gw2. Raid system benefits those people who like to raid and does absolutely nothing to those who dislike raiding as it’s not needed for anything since this game has multiple methods to unlock items as is and that won’t change for raids.

So because people simply don’t like raids full well knowing they can simply just ignore them they go about spitting in everyone elses glass of lemonade.

Wildstar all over again. SWTOR all over again. Rift all over again. TSW all over again.

Listing games that started with a Sub doesn’t actually prove your point at all. Wildstar, SWTOR, and Rift didn’t provide enough content to deserved there subs and people left and each one eventually had to go free to play. Wildstar is dropping its sub in the fall which is also owned by NCsoft as well which probably played into Gw2 going F2p. Games like WoW/FF14 prove without a doubt that casual/elitePve/elitePvp/Rpcrowd can all get along in an MMO just fine.

This game never started with a sub and with such low expectations adding a feature isn’t going to spell the end for this game at all people as I stated before just love to hate/troll on people when their happy and the people who want raids are happy right now If you don’t like raids then don’t do them. Gear in this game is all baseline to rarity anyway.

They all boasted raiding as retention mechanism. Just as ANet is doing now.

Anyway, result of this announcement is 2 refund request for HOT.

WoW lost 5 mil subs in 6 months.

FFXIV prooves that if you spend double the money on teh game because you epically screwed first release youll earn some goodwill. And never make your money back. They needed cash shop along sub just to be able to open euro servers.

Anyway you dont have to worry about me asking the right questions much more.

You know what they say, vote with your wallet, words are cheap.

So, I am the only one who checked OP’s post history or why has this obvious troll thread 2 pages of replies?

Serophous.9085:

dungeons and fractals didn’t create the zerk meta.

Players created the zerk meta because they realized “hey, this is easier and faster if we just all speed clear”

Hello CoF p1

Technically Anet created it….
This is the exact type of thing you get when there is no holy trinity and there are no encounters/Mob AI that are difficult and require other forms of build
its a DPS meta, not zerk meta(condi is still DPS, so don’t ask for anet to make condi more viable… that solves NOTHING… its still DPS DPS DPS) . Sinister/assassin gear is also meta depending on what you feel like minmaxing

SkiTz.4590:

Unless you are hardcore WvW roamer and a constant build tweaker, its not that big of an advantage….

So, you’d agree that at least WvW players do have a need of it, and should have their own path to obtaining that gear?

Content is a retention mechanism, those games content wasn’t enough for said leaving players.

Just like how the content is delivered regardless of how or whether it is meaty or “fluffy” as much of GW2s content was referred to.

The same reason there is 1 raid now, not even on release. The same reason we get these new pieces each week. It’s so it’s not dumped in front of us we consume it and move on. It’s all about trying to keep you as long as possible, regardless of how good and how much. We can bullet point most of the announcements over the years, yet it would go over weeks tiny tiny nothing articles, all trying to fluff up and keep us going regardless of how good it was.

They want players to pop in every so often so often, not to blow through it and leave. They have a store they want people to potentially buy from each week as well.

plz, it’s enough about gear check…it’s a bit OT.
Lie or not about your gear, my post is about something else.

#SkiTz: maybe legendaries are not much more than a QoL improvement…but ascended-s are…AR.
Masteries too are not QoL.

Someone in this 3d stated that a mmo(rpg) is about vertical progression…and yes, it is true…for now. – I still think that a game with pure horizontal progression is possible, time will tell. -
But I bought the game exactly because i thought that gw2 could be different (because Anet stated it. did i misinterpret it? did they “lie” or changed idea after a while? who knows)
…and it is, different in some way, but not enough.
And so, as I realised it, I dropped it.
Of course you’re right wher say Devs won’t change the game for me alone, as many players enjoy it as it is now…and I’m sure that the game will continue in the direction it has already taken.

But it doesn’t mean I’m the only player who thinks that vertical progression/grind is not the only way to play mmo’s.

MikaHR.1978:

Doam.8305:

MikaHR.1978:

Doam.8305:

Dude just likes to spit in other peoples lemonade is all and there are indeed people like that in this world and in Gw2. Raid system benefits those people who like to raid and does absolutely nothing to those who dislike raiding as it’s not needed for anything since this game has multiple methods to unlock items as is and that won’t change for raids.

So because people simply don’t like raids full well knowing they can simply just ignore them they go about spitting in everyone elses glass of lemonade.

Wildstar all over again. SWTOR all over again. Rift all over again. TSW all over again.

Listing games that started with a Sub doesn’t actually prove your point at all. Wildstar, SWTOR, and Rift didn’t provide enough content to deserved there subs and people left and each one eventually had to go free to play. Wildstar is dropping its sub in the fall which is also owned by NCsoft as well which probably played into Gw2 going F2p. Games like WoW/FF14 prove without a doubt that casual/elitePve/elitePvp/Rpcrowd can all get along in an MMO just fine.

This game never started with a sub and with such low expectations adding a feature isn’t going to spell the end for this game at all people as I stated before just love to hate/troll on people when their happy and the people who want raids are happy right now If you don’t like raids then don’t do them. Gear in this game is all baseline to rarity anyway.

They all boasted raiding as retention mechanism. Just as ANet is doing now.

Anyway, result of this announcement is 2 refund request for HOT.

WoW lost 5 mil subs in 6 months.

FFXIV prooves that if you spend double the money on teh game because you epically screwed first release youll earn some goodwill. And never make your money back. They needed cash shop along sub just to be able to open euro servers.

Anyway you dont have to worry about me asking the right questions much more.

You know what they say, vote with your wallet, words are cheap.

See, funny thing you mention the cash shop in ff14.

The cash shop has jack kitten, like seriously, jack kitten. There’s a few barely noticed accessories, some outfits that were available years ago for a limit time and only like three of then. Four dyes that look bad on most gear…..and a mount which I’ve seen four times ingame in 8 months. Oh and a few minions that again no one really uses.

FF14’s profit is coming from subs, the cash shop is just a nice little extra thing for them.

Astralporing.1957:

SkiTz.4590:

Unless you are hardcore WvW roamer and a constant build tweaker, its not that big of an advantage….

So, you’d agree that at least WvW players do have a need of it, and should have their own path to obtaining that gear?

They have a path to obtaining it, its called raiding. Do raids or don’t get the gear. They don’t “need” anything.

Gear checks are a cop-out to decent content, and are utterly meaningless in terms of “challenging” or “interesting”.

Oh look, we added a zero, go grind 400 hours to get that zero so you can do the new content which is exactly the same as the old content but with more zeros!!!!11oneone1one

That’s what gear checks are used to cover up. They don’t make it more fun, they don’t make it more interesting, they don’t make it more challenging.

Don’t chase the zeros!
Instead, push the devs to actually make interesting content. More complicated events, more interesting fight mechanics beyond “dodge this dudes massive one shot AoE every 5 seconds or wipe, got it? Good, now do that for 30 minutes”.

The VW champs are basic examples. South and North at least involve more than just zerg the boss. There are complications to the fight. Sure with a zerg it can only be so complicated before it just wont work. But in a controlled setting there could be all kinds of interesting things to have to do.

Raids are not necessarily going to be as they are in other MMOs. Take a look at the elite missions from Guild Wars: Factions and you’ll probably get an idea of what they’re like—longer dungeons with larger group sizes and that’s about it. I see nothing at all to get worked up about, and there’s no indication they’re going to take away from anything else in the game. They won’t even have a gear treadmill, and Colin reiterated the commitment to making sure you can do them with any profession combination.

As for the thing about raids being part of the living story, remember that they call their whole story the living story. I’m willing to bet that what they mean is “the raids will have stories,” not “to do the main story you have to raid.”