Guild Wars 2

Dalanor.5387:

Criminon.8432:

The largest thing I feel is missing ABOVE EVERYTHING ELSE from what I have seen in Guild Wars 2 is AI. Boss AI as well as overall enemy AI in this game is very lacking. I really don’t know if this is just due to game design but I feel like certain systems would have to be specifically crafted / redesigned for raiding to be truly effective.

I keep hearing that without any proper feedback what the AI really lacks. Care to elaborate?

Target of target is another important one here. I feel like I missed / wanted this the most while doing dungeons and I really hope we see it during raiding. Being able to tell what an enemy is looking at and being able to act accordingly is amazing.

Watch the environment not the UI. That was the goal of GW2 combat since the beginning.

I would say the one thing to take from other MMOs is to make raid bosses large enough to know where they are at all times; even if they are humans etc. This is kind of the part where gameplay > aesthetics.

While bigger bosses would be generaly a better idea the main issue with the visibility of animations is the massive amount of particle effects (guardian F1 for example is totally overdone and pointless).

I feel like most of the dungeons use one shot mechanics with dodging etc and I wonder if this is really the path you guys are wanting to take with raiding. While having the res downed people feature is nice I don’t think we should be getting tastes of it every 5 seconds while raiding.

I keep hearing that without proper examples all the time. Care to elaborate? Of course if you are on a squishy ele it’s more of a problem than on a warrior.

While I completely support the idea of having people able to choose their role in dungeons its obvious that current content focuses on just dps[…]

And there goes your credibility. False statements and logical fallacies as always.

We see with bosses like Tequatl that we still have the need for roles, we have just masked what a role is by putting people on turrets, bumping up the total to 2, but still leaving out the tank. What we have next is a boss that doesn’t move or target anyone and just stands in place so the dps can attack it.

Defending teams. Just sayin’. Tanks are for removing the threat from the dps players so they can safely damage the enemy (omg it’s all about dps too, who would expect that?!)

I really think it would be nice if we had people wanting to spec mostly heals or mostly defense for these raids. Of course they would still dps and make use of their 1-5s, they would be full support and we would actually have a use for the healing sigils etc.

That can be done in whatever gear you have with proper gameplay. Combo fields and finishers are there for a reason as well other weapons too like guardian hammers for perma protection. But yeah, ignore everything again.

I could probably go on all day about specific ideas for raid encounters but I think I’ll hold back.

Thanks, you lack proper knowledge about the game anyway and you are emotionally biased as well.

Don’t attack me just because you disagree with me. I’m not looking to argue about my statements. Take your maliciousness elsewhere.

Thelgar.7214:

Ouimette.5902:

daimasei.4091:

Because the last game to focus on raids is doing great… oh wait!

Well at least the big guilds are going strong… oh wait!

OK, nvm.

Anyhow, if they introduce raids I will leave this game. I can’t event do teq or the wurm because people are beyond stupid so more “sorry, you can do this unless you find 100 players with an IQ above 0” is a total nope for me.

You shouldn’t feel forced to do either Teq or Wurm and if so. Maybe you should take a break from the game. Raids will not affect you at all if you do not make them do so. Just stay away from them when they arrive to the game and do what you’ve always done.

And open world raid is relying too much on individual skill while instanced raids in this game will most likely be better organized and eaiser to coordinate.

I wouldn’t put down my boot in the ground just yet. Wait and see what the future CDI has to offer before making the decision

ArenaNet has shown they are more than willing to “encourage” people to play content they don’t want to play by making it the only way, or a much more efficient way, of obtaining something. And they seem to take pleasure in doing it in regard to content over which there is a strong split between those that want/like something and those that don’t want/dislike something. If raids are implemented, it is almost certain that something desirable to someone who dislikes raids will require raiding to get.

That’s my biggest fear. Always seems like it’s about making Little America and not content for content sake. Starbelly Sneetches. Guess we’ll see.

With my luck, they’ll offer the old running animation, old shorts and a swimming dog exclusively in the raid.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi All,

Just wanted to let you know that we will be discussing raiding in the next phase of the Guild CDI. Feel free to carry on discussing here, and just wanted to let you know that i am reading this thread.

Chris

That is fantastic news. It’s great to know you guys are up for considering raid content! Thank you!

Raids in GW2… I might actually come back to the game if they are well done.

A couple things need to happen though:

1. PvP and PvE balance will need to be separated
2. Condition specs will need to be fixed
3. Raids must be instanced and challenging
4. Raids must be no larger than 15 people

If those 4 things are done then I think raids could be a big boon for GW2.

Criminon.8432:

Don’t attack me just because you disagree with me. I’m not looking to argue about my statements. Take your maliciousness elsewhere.

So no discussion and brainstorming? Than i’m right, great! =]

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Raids in GW2… I might actually come back to the game if they are well done.

A couple things need to happen though:

1. PvP and PvE balance will need to be separated
2. Condition specs will need to be fixed
3. Raids must be instanced and challenging
4. Raids must be no larger than 15 people

If those 4 things are done then I think raids could be a big boon for GW2.

I’m sorry I don’t post much here but.

Raids in a game with no tank or healers, what do you expect ? instead of 4 warriors and a mes, it will be 8 warriors and 2 mes if 10 man. Will be a total Zerg fest what else can it be ?

Removing the tank and healer removed a lot when it comes to mechanics to gameplay.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Raids in GW2… I might actually come back to the game if they are well done.

A couple things need to happen though:

1. PvP and PvE balance will need to be separated
2. Condition specs will need to be fixed
3. Raids must be instanced and challenging
4. Raids must be no larger than 15 people

If those 4 things are done then I think raids could be a big boon for GW2.

I don’t see the point in limiting it to 15 people. Kind of a ridiculous notion to me. Scaling would be more appropriate.

I would hope that they’d use some of the coding time on a raid system to refine the squad system into a proper raid group system with some party management options for the commander.

raiden.9024:

Raids in a game with no tank or healers, what do you expect ? instead of 4 warriors and a mes, it will be 8 warriors and 2 mes if 10 man. Will be a total Zerg fest what else can it be ?

That was true in 2012 however the year is currently 2014, sorry. And please don’t spout such false statements if you …
1. Never stepped out from CoF.
2. Never played dungeons in the past 2 years.
3. Both.

Removing the tank and healer removed a lot when it comes to mechanics to gameplay.

Now you rely on yourself and not exclusively on 2 other dudes to keep your rear bottom safe.

Imagine a full raid of Mesmers and all their clones. o.o

I would like to see GvG radis

Also Dueling option, which is “left out” since beginning.

Kulvar.1239:

If they make “raids”, I suggest to Arena.net to don’t make them with a fixed number of people. While doing them with friends or guild, it would be sad to let someone behind because “we can’t take more people”.

I really hope Anet understands this. Guild Wars 2 has always been about scaling events and allowing as many people as possible to participate in a boss fight. I know raids won’t be open content like the rest of the bosses, but most guilds can have hundreds of players or numbers in the double digits.

If Anet learns anything about raiding then don’t make raids for a specific number of players. You have guilds with hundreds of members, and even more with smaller numbers. Raids need to be able to scale to accommodate having either 100+ players or 10+ players. Anything less would be cutting off so many people who would want to step into the Raid scene and help bolster the number of players in the game.

My last paragraph would be the most ideal solution, but Anet will have a massive uphill battle with the game lacking a trinity system. When you have a true trinity you can make a boss fight truly engrossing and unique. With our current system you can’t really get that. The best fights in the game to ever come close to a real raid boss has been Marionette and Triple Trouble. The amount of coordination and relying on your teammates to defeat the boss is really spot on for a boss fight. So lets hope if Anet does add raids( I hope you do!) they go for the big picture and not the fast and short term.

Imbued Flame Shaman and twice as mobile as Liadri and Mai Trin and 12 player party, now that would be fun. AoE everywhere and no stacking.
I don’t want another Static dragon or Wurm.

Dalanor.5387:

Criminon.8432:

The largest thing I feel is missing ABOVE EVERYTHING ELSE from what I have seen in Guild Wars 2 is AI. Boss AI as well as overall enemy AI in this game is very lacking. I really don’t know if this is just due to game design but I feel like certain systems would have to be specifically crafted / redesigned for raiding to be truly effective.

I keep hearing that without any proper feedback what the AI really lacks. Care to elaborate?

Target of target is another important one here. I feel like I missed / wanted this the most while doing dungeons and I really hope we see it during raiding. Being able to tell what an enemy is looking at and being able to act accordingly is amazing.

Watch the environment not the UI. That was the goal of GW2 combat since the beginning.

I would say the one thing to take from other MMOs is to make raid bosses large enough to know where they are at all times; even if they are humans etc. This is kind of the part where gameplay > aesthetics.

While bigger bosses would be generaly a better idea the main issue with the visibility of animations is the massive amount of particle effects (guardian F1 for example is totally overdone and pointless).

I feel like most of the dungeons use one shot mechanics with dodging etc and I wonder if this is really the path you guys are wanting to take with raiding. While having the res downed people feature is nice I don’t think we should be getting tastes of it every 5 seconds while raiding.

I keep hearing that without proper examples all the time. Care to elaborate? Of course if you are on a squishy ele it’s more of a problem than on a warrior.

While I completely support the idea of having people able to choose their role in dungeons its obvious that current content focuses on just dps[…]

And there goes your credibility. False statements and logical fallacies as always.

We see with bosses like Tequatl that we still have the need for roles, we have just masked what a role is by putting people on turrets, bumping up the total to 2, but still leaving out the tank. What we have next is a boss that doesn’t move or target anyone and just stands in place so the dps can attack it.

Defending teams. Just sayin’. Tanks are for removing the threat from the dps players so they can safely damage the enemy (omg it’s all about dps too, who would expect that?!)

I really think it would be nice if we had people wanting to spec mostly heals or mostly defense for these raids. Of course they would still dps and make use of their 1-5s, they would be full support and we would actually have a use for the healing sigils etc.

That can be done in whatever gear you have with proper gameplay. Combo fields and finishers are there for a reason as well other weapons too like guardian hammers for perma protection. But yeah, ignore everything again.

I could probably go on all day about specific ideas for raid encounters but I think I’ll hold back.

Thanks, you lack proper knowledge about the game anyway and you are emotionally biased as well.

Woah dude take a chill pill.

Great news.

My one suggestion regarding PvE is the lack of meaningful crowd control. Dreaming away, adding a ‘elite PvE control’ that is class-specific to be used when the Defiant armor is down would at least diversify the classes without destroying the current class balance. Its added on top of the current game. I think Wildstar got a more meaningful crowdcontrol mechanic with interrupt armor. Putting it in bullet-format:

1. In dungeons/raids the player can access a new PvE Control Elite slot.
2. This does not share slot with current Elite skills.
3. These skills can only be used when the enemy has no Defiant armor on them.
4. The strength of the skill can be tuned to be greatly exaggerated to regular skills in the game, allowing players to control more difficult foes for longer periods of time (10-30 seconds or so).
5. Once ability is used, Defiant is reapplied.

This is because I believe that if GW2 is at fault for not making classes desirable in PvE.
No one brings anything unique to a group that could make or break a run. I also believe thats the reason why I in WoW got MANY more requests to join a group for doing dungeons/raids – simply because they wanted my class there. Maybe even NEEDED me to be there to proceed. Urgency is the greatest conversation starter!
They could simply look on the guild roster and see a Druid on there, and ask on that merit alone. That then lead on to great adventures later on with them, allowing me to be exposed to new players.

Because I don’t think the motto of ‘bring the player, not the class’ has really worked out on a social level. So please, make my class unique! Make every class more niche and desirable at some point during these coming raids!

Personally I hope it is all open world content OR has the ability to solo/shortman it (scales to your party size). I have just enough friends for dungeons, having to find 20 more people that I could stand/trust to play with would be difficult.

Ouimette.5902:

Woah dude take a chill pill.

Care to elaborate or it is just another pointless non-constructive off topic comment that should be removed?

Raids should be about skills. So here’s how I would design the raid. Let’s say the raid starts with 15 players. Once they enter the instance, the players have to split up individually to destroy 15 gates. These gates are all guarded by Giganticus Lupicus. So each member will have to solo Lupi and destroy the gates. Members who fail will not make it to the next round therefore reduce overall team dps. The next round will be the hardest jumping puzzles with moving steps. Flying imps will be attacking you while u try to get up to the top floor. One wrong jump and u are dead or if u take too long to jump the imps will kill u. Whatever players remain will have to fight the bosses at the top floor. The remaining group will have to take on 15 legendary bosses at the same time. Hence why it’s essential that all members survive or else u face an outnumbered situation. If the team miraculously defeats the legendary bosses, then they are warped into Spvp Skyhammer map where they face a map full of necromancers that will fear u every 5 seconds. Hope the team brings enough stability. Good luck.

Doon.2364:

So each member will have to solo Lupi and destroy the gates. Members who fail will not make it to the next round therefore reduce overall team dps.

Raid leaders should also have the power to give those slacker that fail a 3 day temp ban from the game .. or perma-death would also be a good option

Joke aside .. heck even Wildstar Devs now state it :
http://wildstarreport.com/2014/09/03/wildstar-omni-core/

In the true sense of their motto; “The Devs are Listening” Frost discussed how Carbine is regularly looking at and analyzing gameplay analytics. These analytics are focused on playtime, content and reward loop feedback, all of which have shifted their focus from high end content to solo gameplay. Statistics are showing the majority of Wildstar players enjoy solo play instead of larger raids which really caught Carbine developers off guard

beldin everyone knows by now that you hate everything that could be just a little bit of a challenge. everyone knows you prefer to afk all day in lions arch instead of playing together with other people (well actually you play together with other people, but only when there is the option to let them carry you). maybe you are lacking social skills or you are still living together with your mom at the age of 50. i dont know whats wrong with you. but no matter what you do and no matter how much nonsense you write, its a fact that people have wishes for challenging group content. like it or dont.
but stop being so egoistic and posting nonsense in every thread.

Well if u look at how GW2 is built, they we don’t have a dedicated healers or tanks. If the fight are done right then i think it would be a really good and necessary addition to the game.
The fight should just be so hard and made such a way that its extreme difficult to zerk it and even if you do then people should take supportive utilities or traits. It would be easier if the group had some AOE healing, some condition removals and reflects etc. Most of the professions in GW2 can do most of them, so you wouldn’t even need to take a certain profession for a certain job. For example let say the boss does some crazy projectile damage in a phase: people could hide behind pillars, a thief could stealth them so the boss would shoot the projectile randomly, a guardian or a mesmer could make a reflect field or even people could just hide behind a reflecting warrior, ranger or elementalist and so on.
The boss should be beatable in zerker gear and traits but it should be really difficult and people should be encouraged to take “supportive” utilities or weapons.
If you look at the weapon skills, utilities and traits we have in GW2 then almost every profession can do anything, just some professions are better at some things. Bigger raids would be a really good thing for people who are a little left out in the meta dungeon groups ( tanky builds, supportive builds etc.). The bosses should be so difficult that they need good coordination and understanding of the fight, for example people need to stand on pressure plates at a certain time. All the boss fights shouldn’t be about dps, GW2 has more then enough mechanics to make fights interesting and hard in different ways.

raiden.9024:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Raids in GW2… I might actually come back to the game if they are well done.

A couple things need to happen though:

1. PvP and PvE balance will need to be separated
2. Condition specs will need to be fixed
3. Raids must be instanced and challenging
4. Raids must be no larger than 15 people

If those 4 things are done then I think raids could be a big boon for GW2.

I’m sorry I don’t post much here but.

Raids in a game with no tank or healers, what do you expect ? instead of 4 warriors and a mes, it will be 8 warriors and 2 mes if 10 man. Will be a total Zerg fest what else can it be ?

Removing the tank and healer removed a lot when it comes to mechanics to gameplay.

NoTrigger.8396:

beldin everyone knows by now that you hate everything that could be just a little bit of a challenge. everyone knows you prefer to afk all day in lions arch instead of playing together with other people

Good that you know things about me that even i don’t know.

The time i was in LA in the last 6 months is maybe less than 10 minutes in total.

NoTrigger.8396:

beldin everyone knows by now that you hate everything that could be just a little bit of a challenge…

I’m poring through his post history and that’s not what I’m seeing.

The link the OP posted is useless. I need to know more information on the subject. What will set it different from dungeons? What will warrant it’s existence?

@Raiden: You can always “fake” a tank if devs really want one for the fight. Boss detects the one with highest toughness (something like that,) gives him or her the aggro boon, and now the boss has someone to follow. It can even shave off damage from the one with the boon. Melee dps to the rear. It’s artificial, but possible.

I agree, though. There are majestic things that go inside that ball of zerker. It really isn’t just stack and win all the time. But I think avoiding that in a raid (at least mostly) is a good idea. I also think avoiding too much emphasis on crazy twitch gameplay is a decent idea.

NoTrigger.8396:

as if it would change anything. he believes he is the most important person on planet earth and only his opinion counts.
and again he only sees what he wants to see. he doesnt even know that wildstar is already working on another 20 man and 40 man raid.

And, if I may be so bold, are you telling me now your opinion of him is the only one which counts and therefore must be correct?

I rather agree with his sentiments, though if tougher content gets added I’ll just resign myself to never seeing it since rangers aren’t hardcore enough to take part.

NoTrigger.8396:

as if it would change anything. he believes he is the most important person on planet earth and only his opinion counts.

Hearing this from someone who wants exclusive content/rewards that only maybe 1% of all players can beat .. sounds a little funny.

Beldin.5498:

NoTrigger.8396:

as if it would change anything. he believes he is the most important person on planet earth and only his opinion counts.

Hearing this from someone who wants exclusive content/rewards that only maybe 1% of all players can beat .. sounds a little funny.

I don’t even care about that – we have that already with the 1% of people who have certain weapon skins and/or Legendaries.

I’m more entertained by how there’s little to the line of posts other than “he’s an idiot” and not much other substance.

Beldin.5498:

NoTrigger.8396:

as if it would change anything. he believes he is the most important person on planet earth and only his opinion counts.

Hearing this from someone who wants exclusive content/rewards that only maybe 1% of all players can beat .. sounds a little funny.

i want content. i dont care at all about rewards. i dont have a single legendary because you dont get them for skillful play, i spend most of my time soloing dungeons and investing more gold than i earn. seriously i couldnt care less about rewards.
but other people do care about it.

and this post is again egoistic. 100% of the content in this game is made so even the worst person can play through it. but there is NOTHING for the people who want challenge.
its insulting when you talk bad about your “1%” (where do you even get that number from?) when there is literally nothing for people who are not satisfied with content that can be completed by pressing 1.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

if tougher content gets added I’ll just resign myself to never seeing it since rangers aren’t hardcore enough to take part.

this is false. rangers are just as good as other professions. only necro is lacking.

Make raids like on WOW.Put massive amount of people and give some really challenging content ( DONT MAKE IT EASY).Even though im happy about raids i just want to say…. DO NOT put Open World raiding aside.I love Open World raiding as GW2 have now lot more then traditional raiding.

Aint played in months but raids really interest me. I think for raids to be successful in the game like gw2, you have to take the lessons learnt from current mmos, what sucks and what is awesome. Pros and cons are numerous and contentious and i dont want to derail the thread.

AI in this game is about as standard as most games, it appears to be a finite state machine with seek, attack, avoid flee etc. commands, the more commands the ‘smarter’ the AI seems. This is great for fodder but not really for big raids, and i really do not enjoy some of the bigger world bosses in this game, move here, dodge this omg red circle u noob.. its boring now and everyone does it. This is a wish but for real challenging content id like to see some basic genetic algorithms; an example would be, several enemy archetypes, they have different strengths and weaknesses but have to be downed several times before being killed, after each down 2 combine to counter the strengths of the team, evolving the battle and making it harder for the players while reducing the number of enemies. There’s a lot more you can do, that is just an easy idea. What i’m trying to say is, make the fights interesting by making the AI more interesting

I think raiding should be rare skins, pref crafted skins that take awhile to unlock/make and maybe some rare named items like in GW1, i don’t think we need any more gear creep or levels and to fit the game. Make the rewards rare and hard to get, it is something this game lacks. It has to be scalable, but i don’t think this is a worry, the tech is there, its refined and it works, why change/not use it.

NoTrigger.8396:

Beldin.5498:

NoTrigger.8396:

as if it would change anything. he believes he is the most important person on planet earth and only his opinion counts.

Hearing this from someone who wants exclusive content/rewards that only maybe 1% of all players can beat .. sounds a little funny.

i want content. i dont care at all about rewards. i dont have a single legendary because you dont get them for skillful play, i spend most of my time soloing dungeons and investing more gold than i earn. seriously i couldnt care less about rewards.
but other people do care about it.

As long as that is true i have no problem with that.

I only have a problem with people that want exclusive / much better rewards locked
behind content that only a small fraction will ever be able to beat.

For example .. you solo Lupi with ease .. now for 5 of you you can do 5 Lupis at once
and still are bored .. so you may need 10 to be a little challenged.

So now all exciting skins are locked behind 5 man doing 10 Lupis .. or even weapons
that do 50 percent more damage so that you can beat 20 Lupis in the next harder encounter.

NoTrigger.8396:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

if tougher content gets added I’ll just resign myself to never seeing it since rangers aren’t hardcore enough to take part.

this is false. rangers are just as good as other professions. only necro is lacking.

. . . yeah, can you please copy and forward to everyone who still thinks rangers only exist in “bearbow” format? Thanks. I’ve stopped doing PUG work mostly due to the aforementioned attitude.

And I’d bet you a shiny gold doubloon if we had raids added, rangers would be less welcome to come along than warriors unless there was a specific need for something they have.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

NoTrigger.8396:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

if tougher content gets added I’ll just resign myself to never seeing it since rangers aren’t hardcore enough to take part.

this is false. rangers are just as good as other professions. only necro is lacking.

. . . yeah, can you please copy and forward to everyone who still thinks rangers only exist in “bearbow” format? Thanks. I’ve stopped doing PUG work mostly due to the aforementioned attitude.

And I’d bet you a shiny gold doubloon if we had raids added, rangers would be less welcome to come along than warriors unless there was a specific need for something they have.

dont PUG…. PUGs arent very smart.
and rangers will be needed. for raids you want every possible buff. spotter and frostspirit!

NoTrigger.8396:

as if it would change anything. he believes he is the most important person on planet earth and only his opinion counts.

Are you sure you are not speaking about yourself ? Because then it would fit.

It is you, who has problem to understand that there is significant portion of playerbase who don’t want WoW style raiding not because of difficulty, but because of time commitment it brings. For you it might be win, for others end. Win – win for ANet ? Definetly not !

I don’t know how or why anet is planning on adding raid if they have already given up on improving dungeons / fractals. I loved the large scale content that marionette added, but I have only seen good raid content come from games using the trinity class system. If all we have to do is stack here, range there and WoR/Feedback the big guy while knowing where to dodge then how would it be different than our current fractals content (that already doesn’t get love).

I am also concerned that the raids will simply be a bigger party size for content that is already seen as “difficult” by casual players. If anet is truly after casual players, how are they going to make and maintain difficult content that requires knowledge and practice to do it well.

Anet would also have to provide proper rewards for the challenge, which they also currently do not do with their fractal content.

TL;DR Raiding is about more than upping the party size, it is a true team effort that requires organization and effort from everyone to gain the rewards deserving of that time and effort. I don’t know if anet would actually want to implement this if their true target is casual players.

Bunnikk.2146:

TL;DR Raiding is about more than upping the party size, it is a true team effort that requires organization and effort from everyone to gain the rewards deserving of that time and effort. I don’t know if anet would actually want to implement this if their true target is casual players.

I also simply don’t see it working here without trinity .. at least not that it would either
still be just a zerg-fest .. or they just add so unfair mechanisms to it that it would
only be beatable by a really small amount of players.

Don’t know .. for me something like 2-Mult is maybe the most they can do in Open World encounters .. that still can be done but are not so easy like the normal FGS Champs for example.

And instanced .. as somebody coming from EQ2 i simply can’t see anything than what
i consider as raiding here.

Malevil.2104:

NoTrigger.8396:

as if it would change anything. he believes he is the most important person on planet earth and only his opinion counts.

Are you sure you are not speaking about yourself ? Because then it would fit.

It is you, who has problem to understand that there is significant portion of playerbase who don’t want WoW style raiding not because of difficulty, but because of time commitment it brings. For you it might be win, for others end. Win – win for ANet ? Definetly not !

where did i say i want WoW style raiding?

and your post can be easily turned around.
its you who has a problem to understand that a significant portion of the player base wants challenging content.

look, if its optional content with optional rewards and without a gear treadmill you wont be forced to play it, you wont be forced to rush it for better gear. so where exactly is your problem?

when 100% of the game is easy and little bit of content could be made for those who want challenge, why are you complaining? where is the time commitment?
why is it right when you are complaining and why is it wrong when people are complaining because the game is lacking challenge?

Beldin.5498:

So now all exciting skins are locked behind 5 man doing 10 Lupis .. or even weapons
that do 50 percent more damage so that you can beat 20 Lupis in the next harder encounter.

nobody was talking about a gear treadmill.
and how could “all” exiting skins be locked behind a raid?

one thing i dont understand is why you have such a big problem with raids but on the other hand you dont complain about legendary weapon prizes for PvP tournaments.

Beldin.5498:

Bunnikk.2146:

TL;DR Raiding is about more than upping the party size, it is a true team effort that requires organization and effort from everyone to gain the rewards deserving of that time and effort. I don’t know if anet would actually want to implement this if their true target is casual players.

I also simply don’t see it working here without trinity .. at least not that it would either
still be just a zerg-fest .. or they just add so unfair mechanisms to it that it would
only be beatable by a really small amount of players.

decrease the autoattack damage of bosses and give them more abilities/focus on the mechanics behind the boss fight = no need for a trinity.

and what exactly is “unfair”? is unfair something that is too difficult for you?

why cant there be content for every type of player?

look i made something for you guys.
the first picture shows gw2 at the moment.
the second picture shows gw2 with the addition of raids.
where is the problem now?

Holy kitten casuals overwhelmed the topic, it’s time to go before i go full potato …
NoTrigger just stop, you can convenience them. GW2 has the most toxic, envy and ignorant community amongst casuals, just stop, don’t hurt yourself.

i just dont understand this kind of behavior and egoism.
i hate wvw more than anything else in this game. do i start to cry when they get a new map or eotm? NO. i grant wvw players their content.

but why cant players who dont like raiding grant the people who like it raid content?
i just dont get it. the entitlement needs to go.

I am not a fan of raids myself, but I’d welcome it. Variety is the spice of life, after all. What I am concerned about is how this will play out. In an MMO with a trinity, there is co-dependency. In this game, it’s all about synergy. My wager the only way they could compensate for this would boil down to level design itself.

NoTrigger.8396:

i want content. i dont care at all about rewards. i dont have a single legendary because you dont get them for skillful play, i spend most of my time soloing dungeons and investing more gold than i earn. seriously i couldnt care less about rewards.
but other people do care about it.

and this post is again egoistic.

You might want to hold off on referring to others as egoistic if you use the word, “I,” half a dozen times in your first paragraph.

NoTrigger.8396:

100% of the content in this game is made so even the worst person can play through it.

This is incorrect.

NoTrigger.8396:

but there is NOTHING for the people who want challenge.

This is also incorrect.

how is it incorrect? tell me one thing in PvE that is challenging for a group.
with challenging i mean challenging.

NoTrigger.8396:

how is it incorrect? tell me one thing in PvE that is challenging for a group

That is called moving the goalpost.

Even so there are options for challenge for groups in PvE. I think we need more, and a greater variety though.

Ashen.2907:

NoTrigger.8396:

how is it incorrect? tell me one thing in PvE that is challenging for a group

That is called moving the goalpost.

why? its exactly what raids are for and what i was talking about.

Ashen.2907:

Even so there are options for challenge for groups in PvE.

tell me where the options are please.

NoTrigger.8396:

Ashen.2907:

NoTrigger.8396:

how is it incorrect? tell me one thing in PvE that is challenging for a group

That is called moving the goalpost.

why? its exactly what raids are for and what i was talking about.

Ashen.2907:

Even so there are options for challenge for groups in PvE.

tell me where the options are please.

You said 100% of the content in this game. Raids do not, currently, exist in this game. As you were speaking in the present tense you could not have been, accurately, speaking of raids. If you were intending to speak of raids then you are correct in that there are not currently any (traditional MMO) raids in GW2.

To be honest I am not sure why you would have felt the need to say so as it is common knowledge. I, for example, would not make a point of stating that there are no interstellar space ship mounts in GW2. To each their own I suppose.

To be clear, you said, “nothing,” not one thing, exists in GW2 for people who enjoy a challenge. Now its no PvE group based content for those who want a challenge. That is the goal post move I referred to.

Still, some dungeons have options that are challenging, or were until people had played them to the point that they knew them like the back of their hands. Personally I have always found PvE content to lose its challenge within a few weeks/months of its introduction. Once you learn the mobs’ builds, behavior, etc the challenge becomes centered around paying attention or staying awake while following a script.

People requesting more challenging content, and I include myself in this, are asking the devs to spend resources on content that many (perhaps even the majority) of players will not enjoy and that those for whom it is developed will render incapable of fulfilling its design purpose by the very act of using it.

I am not a fan of self imposed handicaps to substitute for inherent encounter challenge but has your group done every dungeon path naked, without traits, no utility skills, etc ? If all you are looking for is a challenging experience, with rewards being irrelevant, then these options might very well provide it. It wouldn’t work for me as I want something that is challenging for me/my character at my/his best, but who knows maybe you will like it.

NoTrigger.8396:

Ashen.2907:

NoTrigger.8396:

how is it incorrect? tell me one thing in PvE that is challenging for a group

That is called moving the goalpost.

why? its exactly what raids are for and what i was talking about.

Ashen.2907:

Even so there are options for challenge for groups in PvE.

tell me where the options are please.

Well technically Triple Wurm used to be difficult for “groups”… but that was because of Bugs, RNG and pre ferocity being mostly the same in lower level zones as on 80…

Personally id love to see a Tower Knight, a Kalameet, a Smough and Ornstein/real Twin Emperors not the kittenty trainers in AC, Razorscale (or Deconstructor since most people didnt like the cute drake) or Vezax (or plain a copy paste of Ulduar as a whole), id even take the bombs from Geddon, BUT in a setup which properly allows for different setups (e.g. you could just murder a ice boss with zerker but end up having to deal with chill and ice block phases, or you could use a block/sustain tank kiting said boss trough fields of lava which you summon by healing iron furances or reflecting said bosses ice shard attacks into a gong which drops rocks on said boss making him take 50% more condi damage for 5 seconds).

Tho (again personally) a bigger part of the “lacking” challenge in pve seems to just be with sustain, heal and tank builds being plain unviable and/or worthless.

Ashen.2907:

I am not a fan of self imposed handicaps to substitute for inherent encounter challenge but has your group done every dungeon path naked, without traits, no utility skills, etc ? If all you are looking for is a challenging experience, with rewards being irrelevant, then these options might very well provide it. It wouldn’t work for me as I want something that is challenging for me/my character at my/his best, but who knows maybe you will like it.

if i have to use self imposed handicaps to make stuff challenging then there is something wrong to begin with.
and soloing arah naked is just as easy as soloing it with full gear. it only takes longer.
it doesnt make the content more interesting nor complex.

if i have to solo stuff to make the content interesting (even doing stuff solo doesnt make it better) why do i play a MMO?
gw2 always talks about how they want to make people play together and find guilds etc…
gw2 feels more like a single player game.

there is currently nothing challenging for organized group play. nothing. you can run dungeons naked all you want. people have done off-hand only dungeons. it doesnt change anything, no, it even feels completely kittened.
and raids could be a good way to introduce content specifically for organized groups to give them something to strive for and a fun experience.

if the content is tuned right and challenging, it will have a high replayability.
if i can just rush through it, clear it first try or within a few days, then i will simply lose interest very fast.

also, i would like to see your statistics which show that the majority in this game is satisfied with the difficulty of lets say cursed shore champ farming, or in other words, run like headless chickens in circles and spam 1.

and captain genius im not a native english speaker. just saying. but im pretty sure you understand exactly what i mean. so it would be nice if you could put your grammar talk aside and stay on topic. thx

The supposedly hard GW2 content that is already in game makes less than 1% of the whole GW2 content.
Yet again, here I ask the same question.
How come “casuals” are against giving “hardcore” crowd 1% of the game?
Are they simply too entitled and want everything for themselves and 99% wouldn’t be enough?

Ashen.2907:

NoTrigger.8396:

Ashen.2907:

NoTrigger.8396:

how is it incorrect? tell me one thing in PvE that is challenging for a group

That is called moving the goalpost.

why? its exactly what raids are for and what i was talking about.

Ashen.2907:

Even so there are options for challenge for groups in PvE.

tell me where the options are please.

You said 100% of the content in this game. Raids do not, currently, exist in this game. As you were speaking in the present tense you could not have been, accurately, speaking of raids. If you were intending to speak of raids then you are correct in that there are not currently any (traditional MMO) raids in GW2.

To be honest I am not sure why you would have felt the need to say so as it is common knowledge. I, for example, would not make a point of stating that there are no interstellar space ship mounts in GW2. To each their own I suppose.

To be clear, you said, “nothing,” not one thing, exists in GW2 for people who enjoy a challenge. Now its no PvE group based content for those who want a challenge. That is the goal post move I referred to.

Still, some dungeons have options that are challenging, or were until people had played them to the point that they knew them like the back of their hands. Personally I have always found PvE content to lose its challenge within a few weeks/months of its introduction. Once you learn the mobs’ builds, behavior, etc the challenge becomes centered around paying attention or staying awake while following a script.

People requesting more challenging content, and I include myself in this, are asking the devs to spend resources on content that many (perhaps even the majority) of players will not enjoy and that those for whom it is developed will render incapable of fulfilling its design purpose by the very act of using it.

I am not a fan of self imposed handicaps to substitute for inherent encounter challenge but has your group done every dungeon path naked, without traits, no utility skills, etc ? If all you are looking for is a challenging experience, with rewards being irrelevant, then these options might very well provide it. It wouldn’t work for me as I want something that is challenging for me/my character at my/his best, but who knows maybe you will like it.

I mean, basically. Yeah.

NoTrigger.8396:

if i have to use self imposed handicaps to make stuff challenging then there is something wrong to begin with.
and soloing arah naked is just as easy as soloing it with full gear. it only takes longer.
it doesnt make the content more interesting nor complex.

For what it is worth I was not speaking of solo play. You updated your intent to specify group play so I followed. If something which has a chance of failure has its duration increased then the chance of failure is also increased. This can be considered an increase in difficulty. For example a player who can execute ten dodges in a row flawlessly might find himself missing an important dodge over the course of a thousand.

Then again we were speaking of challenging not interesting or complex.

NoTrigger.8396:

if i have to solo stuff to make the content interesting (even doing stuff solo doesnt make it better) why do i play a MMO?
gw2 always talks about how they want to make people play together and find guilds etc…
gw2 feels more like a single player game.

I agree completely.

NoTrigger.8396:

there is currently nothing challenging for organized group play. nothing.

If this was correct all organized groups would have 100% success rate at everything they attempt. This is not the case.

NoTrigger.8396:

you can run dungeons naked all you want. people have done off-hand only dungeons. it doesnt change anything, no, it even feels completely kittened.
and raids could be a good way to introduce content specifically for organized groups to give them something to strive for and a fun experience.

I agree. The question is what would be the ROI for Anet ?

NoTrigger.8396:

if the content is tuned right and challenging, it will have a high replayability.
if i can just rush through it, clear it first try or within a few days, then i will simply lose interest very fast.

I have yet to see content that didn’t become rote or easy for those seeking challenge within a matter of weeks or months. I am not saying that content cannot be created to remain difficult over time, but I have not yet seen it. I have had to move into PvP to find sustainable challenge in any game I’ve played (and I do not consider myself to be particularly good at games).

NoTrigger.8396:

also, i would like to see your statistics which show that the majority in this game is satisfied with the difficulty of lets say cursed shore champ farming, or in other words, run like headless chickens in circles and spam 1.

I have never claimed this.

NoTrigger.8396:

and captain genius im not a native english speaker. just saying. but im pretty sure you understand exactly what i mean. so it would be nice if you could put your grammar talk aside and stay on topic. thx

I responded to what you said. Upon learning that you meant other than what you said I altered my subsequent responses accordingly. My posts were direct responses to yours and could only be off topic if yours were.