Guild Wars 2

That’s actually an awesome idea..

guardian.6489:

You know I wonder if Anet can use a raiding set-up to revive old living story 1 content and make it better.

The Tower of nightmares would make an epic 10-15 man raid especially if the bosses at each floor were polished up with more distinct boss mechanics.

Plus maybe if we come up with a system that allows multiple sizes of raids we could bring back the Marionette and the battle at the breachmaker.

Those two are the perfect examples of raids if they balance out DPS , Control and Support would be amazing amazing fights. I know alot of guildies didn’t get to experience the final battle with scarlet. Another good idea would be hmm……I’ll save it for the Raid CDI.

What’s with all this hatred towards complex and challenging content? Are the people against raids even interested in the core game mechanics?

I for one would love to have raids if they are built properly. New activities, mechanics, and levels of challenge are always something I look forward to.

For those who are talking about Damage/Damage/Damage, follow a guild raid in WvW and you will see that’s not the case at all. Control and Support are equally important, if not more important than Damage, in a PVP setting. Lots of different stats are being used (Berserker is not the dominant stat combo) lots of skills (and weapon sets) are useful and powerful and not just a tiny few that complete the “best” PVE builds.

Mechanics are here, stat combos are here, the trinity (Damage/Control/Support) is here in any form of PVP. I believe before the Raid CDI they should do a Mob CDI, how to redesign every single mob to use more PVP-like abilities that will make PVE better and not just Damage/Damage/Damage.

If they add a gear grind I’m outta here

The Toxic Tower, to me, had great raid atmosphere. It was like instanced raid with no limit players. I liked it a lot. Imagine if at the end was harder boss fight for 5 man groups, or some boss fight like Marionette – 5 man groups divided in different places ( like one group at the Dragon head, other group, at legs, arms, torso, tale… )!

I don’t want raids like in every mmorpg in 15 years. They are all the same. I don’t like it. Watching now Wild Star raid video and was so bored, it looks like WoW.

We need something new, mix of Toxic Tower and final boss like Marionette, Evolved Worm or so.

Bri.8354:

What’s with all this hatred towards complex and challenging content? Are the people against raids even interested in the core game mechanics?

I don’t think it’s hatred toward complex content, rather a mix of :
- what is a raid in GW2 ? Is it a megaboss (teq, wurm) ? a 10 man dungeon ? a 25 player dungeon ? The more I read this thread, the more I think we (including me) are arguing over totally different things.
Personnaly I am a lot in favor of new megabosses (and the return of previous ones) however I am deeply against 10 player dungeons.

- Are there any mechanics in GW2 that prevent group based instanced content to be facerolled using the same tactic over and over again (i.e zerker stacking) without making it obnoxiously hard/long for players that do not optimize their characters at 100% ?

- Remember that no developer has been able to pull out content faster than the players chew through it. I am wondering whether implementing any raid is worth the effort. Why not trying something else (something more sandbox) ?

People that are in favor of this type of content all seem bored to no end by repeating the same dungeons over and over again. For them, it looks like like raids could be at the same time, a step up in difficulty and required coordination as well as new content to try.

maddoctor.2738:

Mechanics are here, stat combos are here, the trinity (Damage/Control/Support) is here in any form of PVP. I believe before the Raid CDI they should do a Mob CDI, how to redesign every single mob to use more PVP-like abilities that will make PVE better and not just Damage/Damage/Damage.

You have me regain faith in humanity. Thanks for summing this up so nicely.

maddoctor.2738:

For those who are talking about Damage/Damage/Damage, follow a guild raid in WvW and you will see that’s not the case at all. Control and Support are equally important, if not more important than Damage, in a PVP setting. Lots of different stats are being used (Berserker is not the dominant stat combo) lots of skills (and weapon sets) are useful and powerful and not just a tiny few that complete the “best” PVE builds.

Mechanics are here, stat combos are here, the trinity (Damage/Control/Support) is here in any form of PVP. I believe before the Raid CDI they should do a Mob CDI, how to redesign every single mob to use more PVP-like abilities that will make PVE better and not just Damage/Damage/Damage.

I’m with you. We have many skills and there should be some kind of importance using one or another, it just feels we only have to burn the most damaging skills and be done with it. PvE became just: DAMAGE.

Valento.9852:

maddoctor.2738:

For those who are talking about Damage/Damage/Damage, follow a guild raid in WvW and you will see that’s not the case at all. Control and Support are equally important, if not more important than Damage, in a PVP setting. Lots of different stats are being used (Berserker is not the dominant stat combo) lots of skills (and weapon sets) are useful and powerful and not just a tiny few that complete the “best” PVE builds.

Mechanics are here, stat combos are here, the trinity (Damage/Control/Support) is here in any form of PVP. I believe before the Raid CDI they should do a Mob CDI, how to redesign every single mob to use more PVP-like abilities that will make PVE better and not just Damage/Damage/Damage.

I’m with you. We have many skills and there should be some kind of importance using one or another, it just feels we only have to burn the most damaging skills and be done with it. PvE became just: DAMAGE.

To quote myself from a few pages back, “1. The combat system in this game is amazing. It is the sign of an extremely uncreative person if he believes that challenging boss fights for 10+ players is impossible to design with the current system. A trinity system is not required whatsoever to have bosses with complex mechanics. If you think it is not possible to design such encounters, kindly excuse yourself from the conversation.”

Yeah, trinity was never required, but everything must work together: combat, counters, specific skills for specific situations, surprise elements, passive effects required (traits), tension (!!!), multiple tasks that could shift priority based on diverse criteria (random or pre-selected), random rearranging groups (like Marionette!), phasing (a TA boss that turns you into sylvan hounds for example), “disabling” players (like Archdiviner in Colossus fractal), etc.

They got so MANY elements already in-game that could be blended together to create awesome (and very difficult) experiences.

I’m eager to see a video by these “dungonz r abot just domoge domoge n domoge!44!!!44!” people what they actually do, because either it must be another game they play or i missed something in the past 2 years how dungeons works.

I’m so happy to see all these raid threads popping up recently!

It wasn’t long ago when I, and a few others were starting raid threads only to be shot down summarily over and over… Interesting how the community does a 180 on these things.

Anyway, I hope that everyone (especially Chris and anet) remember that raids in GW2 do not have to be exclusive or elitist like they are in WoW. Don’t require ascended gear or some arbitrary stat (like agony) to gate players. There’s no reason to do so. GW2 is not a subscription game, and such systems only benefit subscription (by artificially extending the amount of time spent grinding). Raids could be just as accessible as dungeons or guild missions. There’s no need for exclusivity or elitism.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Asmodeus.5782:

Then I’ll just buy some with real cash. Much more preferable than cheesing mechanics and grinding until my eyes bleed.

And this unfortunately is why we don’t get any real content. Why spend time, development, and money on engaging difficult content if all your revenue comes from people sitting in LA buying endless gemstore items and gold while not actually playing the game?

Gamers have ruined the era of video games, and it is sad.

Those that believe gaming is about running dungeons over and over to farm for gold are the ones that are ruining the era of video games, not the other way around…..

Do you believe speedrunning dungeons for highest gold/hr rate is what constitutes “actually playing the game”? If so, that’s what’s sad.

I’ve been trying to figure out some way of bringing the healing role into a gw2 “raid” setup so I tried to draw inspiration from a few places in gw1 that I loved. Importantly, I didn’t want to have a dedicated cleric guard or something required for this.

So FoW and UW were great dungeons that people were able to farm for years and love because of the different paths/open nature. As people got better (and stuff like shadow form were introduced) speed clears were about splitting up into different areas to solo/duo clear parts. With the exception of AC story (and the occasional mesmer portal), gw2 lacks any of these kinds of splits. I think it’s important for a raid to have this feel as it gives first timers the ability to walk in and explore as a group but it gives the hardcore crowd the challenge of optimizing splits and tactics.

So why splits and healing in the same post? Thinking back to DoA HM or even snowblind in fotm, there are areas in the game that cause environmental DoTs. Different paths could have different aspects that cause DoTs. If you kill these aspects “in order” it won’t get that bad but if you delve in further while skipping them, then DoTs really start to hurt and group healing would be required.

I’m specifically not saying a cleric dedicated healer although that could cover the role. On my engineer I still have water fields and blasts in a full zerker set up. A zerker warrior can drop banner of tactics and let the whole party use #2. Healing springs, well of blood, mantras…. basically every class has some form of aoe heal that can be used on the run. A full dps group should be able to stick together and coordinate their team heals so that their team could survive the run to the final boss. The final boss should have some painful attacks that shouldn’t necessarily kill someone outright but when you are constantly losing health, taking a hit could be death. Death of one person with aoe heals —> eventually the rest of the team can succumb. This kind of skip should be REALLY hard but as people learn, it should become doable. Maybe optimal is considered as 1 keepers guy for a bit more heals, kill 1 aspect, skip the others etc. Or maybe a 2/2/1 split to kill 3 aspects then the boss… importantly, something like this would add replay value for the truely hardcore without excluding less experienced players. Shaman, apostate and apothecary condi builds could also work as they only require condi dmg (and duration) to go near max dps while also having healing power.

The other reason I think the DoTs are important is that it would prevent changing weapons, skills and traits on the run. This would give a gw1 feel of entering and sticking with what you have. However, killing an aspect could give an area of OOC to change up which adds further depth to planning.

The DoTs don’t even need to all be perma degen. Something as simple as giving all enemies retaliation every 10-15 seconds. Necros and mesmer would be welcome to strip those and slower harder hitting weapons might be chosen.

I think raids should stick to a group of 5 people. Going up to 10 makes vulnerability and spamming reflects way easier than it already is. Condi stack caps become even more of a problem. The utility of 5 or more people would also be much harder to balance for. With that in mind, maybe a 5 person instance would be considered hard mode with better rewards. A instance open to more people wouldn’t need to change that much. AoE heals affect 5 people and the DoTs would affect everyone. Just make sure the boss cleaves have a bigger target limit than 5 and a bit more health.

Rewards: Tokens for ascended armor/weapons or exotic unique skins. No gear treadmill please. Killing aspects could give a minor amount of tokens each while finishing the raid gives more. This would also incentive people to do the “legit” way while skipping to the final boss would be more for the challenge.

Of course obligatory better AI!
Edit: 1 more thing, add more random events like the AC cave troll but not actually a copy paste of him.

Draknar.5748:

Those that believe gaming is about running dungeons over and over to farm for gold are the ones that are ruining the era of video games, not the other way around…..

Do you believe speedrunning dungeons for highest gold/hr rate is what constitutes “actually playing the game”? If so, that’s what’s sad.

For you and to whoever agree with you. [VIDEO HERE]

Dalanor.5387:

Draknar.5748:

Those that believe gaming is about running dungeons over and over to farm for gold are the ones that are ruining the era of video games, not the other way around…..

Do you believe speedrunning dungeons for highest gold/hr rate is what constitutes “actually playing the game”? If so, that’s what’s sad.

For you and to whoever agree with you. [VIDEO HERE]

That video is great i love it.

Welcome back to…

LFG 5k DPS fury warrior must have achievement

We dont want that thank you…
Raid in itself however isnt the issue but the fact some people like it easy and want to pick up only the best to run them. Results? Well all the baddies get grouped togueter because no decent player left and or you get grouped up with baddies because you have no connection to an elitism guild and no one get things done save for a select few lucky shot who had friends in high place.

A good 3/4 of the so called good raiders in world of warcraft only happened to have friend in high place who carried them in the raids regardless of subpar skill level. Skills in raid? That doesnt exist its all about behing at the right place at the right time with the right people and is prety much dumbed down to pure luck.

Then people start asking to show achievement for stuff you could have never done anyway in a pug team and you end up behing refused everywhere with door locked because you just werent the lucky one to find a team that can actualy run the place.
How can you actualy have the achievement for a place you actualy trying to run for the first time to begin with, if your in there its because you want to gear up not so to do a walk in the park.

LOTRO raid is the best MMO raid for PvE i played so far.

Dalanor.5387:

Draknar.5748:

Those that believe gaming is about running dungeons over and over to farm for gold are the ones that are ruining the era of video games, not the other way around…..

Do you believe speedrunning dungeons for highest gold/hr rate is what constitutes “actually playing the game”? If so, that’s what’s sad.

For you and to whoever agree with you. [VIDEO HERE]

Not sure what category I fall into on this video…or what farming dungeons has to do with good players vs bad players.

Funny video though, I definitely agree with it.

kyubi.3620:

Welcome back to…

LFG 5k DPS fury warrior must have achievement

We dont want that thank you…
Raid in itself however isnt the issue but the fact some people like it easy and want to pick up only the best to run them. Results? Well all the baddies get grouped togueter because no decent player left and or you get grouped up with baddies because you have no connection to an elitism guild and no one get things done save for a select few lucky shot who had friends in high place.

A good 3/4 of the so called good raiders in world of warcraft only happened to have friend in high place who carried them in the raids regardless of subpar skill level. Skills in raid? That doesnt exist its all about behing at the right place at the right time with the right people and is prety much dumbed down to pure luck.

Then people start asking to show achievement for stuff you could have never done anyway in a pug team and you end up behing refused everywhere with door locked because you just werent the lucky one to find a team that can actualy run the place.
How can you actualy have the achievement for a place you actualy trying to run for the first time to begin with, if your in there its because you want to gear up not so to do a walk in the park.

Elitists are already existing even without raids.That won’t be anything new even if raids are added.People can avoid such groups the same way they currently do.Also you can’t link achievement.Also if you want to do something make your own group,become the RL and make your own rules.

Just because they’re discussing it in a CDI doesn’t mean you’ll ever get it.

Don’t get your hopes up. I’m interested to see their take on it, but if it’s super elitist BS, then I don’t want it. If it’s just a step above dungeons, that could be fun.

I don’t want 1-shot mechanics or other crap that makes things artificially “hard”. Making a boss go invulnerable or untargetable is stupid and should be avoided.

moiraine.2753:

kyubi.3620:

Welcome back to…

LFG 5k DPS fury warrior must have achievement

We dont want that thank you…
Raid in itself however isnt the issue but the fact some people like it easy and want to pick up only the best to run them. Results? Well all the baddies get grouped togueter because no decent player left and or you get grouped up with baddies because you have no connection to an elitism guild and no one get things done save for a select few lucky shot who had friends in high place.

A good 3/4 of the so called good raiders in world of warcraft only happened to have friend in high place who carried them in the raids regardless of subpar skill level. Skills in raid? That doesnt exist its all about behing at the right place at the right time with the right people and is prety much dumbed down to pure luck.

Then people start asking to show achievement for stuff you could have never done anyway in a pug team and you end up behing refused everywhere with door locked because you just werent the lucky one to find a team that can actualy run the place.
How can you actualy have the achievement for a place you actualy trying to run for the first time to begin with, if your in there its because you want to gear up not so to do a walk in the park.

Elitists are already existing even without raids.That won’t be anything new even if raids are added.People can avoid such groups the same way they currently do.Also you can’t link achievement.Also if you want to do something make your own group,become the RL and make your own rules.

To add on this we already have at least 2 communities (one for NA and one for EU) that are completely open for raiding the 2 main mega-bosses in the game (Teq and Wurm), I doubt they’d suddenly change their policies if Anet adds instanced raiding. They’d probably just be a open community you could join if you wanted to join raiding but don’t want to leave your small guild.

guardian.6489:

They’d probably just be a open community you could join if you wanted to join raiding but don’t want to leave your small guild.

Well, here’s hoping.

Keep in mind that the main subject is about an ADDITION called “raids”, not wiping current dungeons or instances. So if YOU are satisfied with what we have now, by all means keep playing those, but aside from pathetical rage all these hatred posts contribute to nothing.

moiraine.2753:

kyubi.3620:

Welcome back to…

LFG 5k DPS fury warrior must have achievement

We dont want that thank you…
Raid in itself however isnt the issue but the fact some people like it easy and want to pick up only the best to run them. Results? Well all the baddies get grouped togueter because no decent player left and or you get grouped up with baddies because you have no connection to an elitism guild and no one get things done save for a select few lucky shot who had friends in high place.

A good 3/4 of the so called good raiders in world of warcraft only happened to have friend in high place who carried them in the raids regardless of subpar skill level. Skills in raid? That doesnt exist its all about behing at the right place at the right time with the right people and is prety much dumbed down to pure luck.

Then people start asking to show achievement for stuff you could have never done anyway in a pug team and you end up behing refused everywhere with door locked because you just werent the lucky one to find a team that can actualy run the place.
How can you actualy have the achievement for a place you actualy trying to run for the first time to begin with, if your in there its because you want to gear up not so to do a walk in the park.

Elitists are already existing even without raids.That won’t be anything new even if raids are added.People can avoid such groups the same way they currently do.Also you can’t link achievement.Also if you want to do something make your own group,become the RL and make your own rules.

With the end of dungeon owner ill just remind you that in theory your own group can kick you witheout any consequence all it require is two guy in zerk who don’t want to do it your way and that’s it they likely got you out of your own party. Stuff such as ‘’making your own rules’’ no longuer exist in dungeon runs save when your teamed up with reasonable people. If we consider them adding raids we likely will see a lot of that.

Valento.9852:

Keep in mind that the main subject is about an ADDITION called “raids”, not wiping current dungeons or instances. So if YOU are satisfied with what we have now, by all means keep playing those, but aside from pathetical rage all these hatred posts contribute to nothing.

The unnerfed and actually somewhat difficult dungeon content, after the trait-related rescaling, has been limited to 2 dungeons + fractals. So yeah.

I’d love to see something that adds content for me, instead of demolishing it (hi, megaserver and NPE!), so I really hope that small guilds will be included without the need to search for alliances and switching the representation all the time.

Wanderer.3248:

If they add a gear grind I’m outta here

Bye, have fun playing League of Legends.

Gear treadmill is a feature of MMOs and will persist till the whole genre dies or changes. Either like it, or quit.

You know full well legendary tier is eventually to make it into the game or maybe an increase in level cap. So you might as well quit while u are ahead

Asmodeus.5782:

Valento.9852:

Keep in mind that the main subject is about an ADDITION called “raids”, not wiping current dungeons or instances. So if YOU are satisfied with what we have now, by all means keep playing those, but aside from pathetical rage all these hatred posts contribute to nothing.

The unnerfed and actually somewhat difficult dungeon content, after the trait-related rescaling, has been limited to 2 dungeons + fractals. So yeah.

I’d love to see something that adds content for me, instead of demolishing it (hi, megaserver and NPE!), so I really hope that small guilds will be included without the need to search for alliances and switching the representation all the time.

Thankfully no one HAS to do ANY content in the game, it’s really all optional. If I don’t like fractals then I don’t do it, if I don’t like zerged events such as Tequatl then I don’t do it, just as simple.

@Edit
And for the love of God: raids don’t imply gear treadmill, it’s simply an originally instanced content for a medium amount of people (usually 24). ANet stepped away from gear treadmill, and I’m glad they did, what I’m looking forward to is skin-based raids.

kyubi.3620:

moiraine.2753:

kyubi.3620:

Welcome back to…

LFG 5k DPS fury warrior must have achievement

We dont want that thank you…
Raid in itself however isnt the issue but the fact some people like it easy and want to pick up only the best to run them. Results? Well all the baddies get grouped togueter because no decent player left and or you get grouped up with baddies because you have no connection to an elitism guild and no one get things done save for a select few lucky shot who had friends in high place.

A good 3/4 of the so called good raiders in world of warcraft only happened to have friend in high place who carried them in the raids regardless of subpar skill level. Skills in raid? That doesnt exist its all about behing at the right place at the right time with the right people and is prety much dumbed down to pure luck.

Then people start asking to show achievement for stuff you could have never done anyway in a pug team and you end up behing refused everywhere with door locked because you just werent the lucky one to find a team that can actualy run the place.
How can you actualy have the achievement for a place you actualy trying to run for the first time to begin with, if your in there its because you want to gear up not so to do a walk in the park.

Elitists are already existing even without raids.That won’t be anything new even if raids are added.People can avoid such groups the same way they currently do.Also you can’t link achievement.Also if you want to do something make your own group,become the RL and make your own rules.

With the end of dungeon owner ill just remind you that in theory your own group can kick you witheout any consequence all it require is two guy in zerk who don’t want to do it your way and that’s it they likely got you out of your own party. Stuff such as ‘’making your own rules’’ no longuer exist in dungeon runs save when your teamed up with reasonable people. If we consider them adding raids we likely will see a lot of that.

1st dungeon owner was a bad thing that had to go
2nd other MMOs doesn’t have a problem with their Rraid leaders.No one is kicking them.Anet just have to make a system for Party leader that is not a crappy one.They don’t have to reinvent the wheel.Why not use something that is already working in other MMOs?

Asmodeus.5782:

Valento.9852:

Keep in mind that the main subject is about an ADDITION called “raids”, not wiping current dungeons or instances. So if YOU are satisfied with what we have now, by all means keep playing those, but aside from pathetical rage all these hatred posts contribute to nothing.

The unnerfed and actually somewhat difficult dungeon content, after the trait-related rescaling, has been limited to 2 dungeons + fractals. So yeah.

I’d love to see something that adds content for me, instead of demolishing it (hi, megaserver and NPE!), so I really hope that small guilds will be included without the need to search for alliances and switching the representation all the time.

Really, considering most people pug dungeons and fractals nowadays it shoudln’t be much harder to find 9 other people compared to 4.

And you have guilds like TTS with thousands of players. You also have 5 guild slots for a reason. Just a large guild on the side and afk them for assistance when u need to. Easy enough.

Usually people like you who complain about larger scale raid/organized content do so because they are unable to be successful or perform adequately (read: get kicked for failing hard) so they want to just be able to solo it at their own pace. Unfortunately MMOs are not single player/3 player dungeon running extravaganza. Its about time people understood that.

VodCom.6924:

Is it a megaboss (teq, wurm) ? a 10 man dungeon ? a 25 player dungeon ? The more I read this thread, the more I think we (including me) are arguing over totally different things.
Personnaly I am a lot in favor of new megabosses (and the return of previous ones) however I am deeply against 10 player dungeons.

- Are there any mechanics in GW2 that prevent group based instanced content to be facerolled using the same tactic over and over again (i.e zerker stacking) without making it obnoxiously hard/long for players that do not optimize their characters at 100% ?

One of the big issues with GW2 is that its combat style and mechanics isn’t well suited to 25-dudes-kill-a-dragon battles. Conditions are a mess, treating a boss like an object forces a PVT gear set because of crit immunity, CC is nearly worthless against Defiance (and even more pointless against their new godkitten version of it that prevents cripple/chill/etc)…

The best way to handle raid design in GW2 is to, oddly enough, emulate PvP to some degree. Multiple, synergistic threats that are allow CC and each becomes a puzzle of how to deal with each one.

I still remember the lovers fight in Catacombs. After so much Defiance frustration, do you realize how GOOD it felt to hammer those suckers away from each other? That position mattered? …The fight’s not hard, but at least its exemplary.

Or Twilight Arbor and faux Destiny’s Edge. A lot going on in that fight, but a knowledgeable team can wreck it without too much hassle.

I do want to be optimistic for raids, but it needs to be handled very carefully, from fight design to rewards. Not to mention, setting a static number like 10 or 25 is far too outdated a concept.

Hunter, guilds with thousands of players, like TTS, are soulless behemoths and participating in them brings me no pleasure whatsoever. And most normal large guilds won’t stand for a non-representing leech.

Usually people like you love to generalize without the slightest idea about the person with whom they’re talking. I really have no desire to explain my love for truly difficult content and hatred for megaguilds and/or zergs.

I just hope that my small guild will be able to use the lfg system to find some other, smaller groups, without need to socialize with hundreds in order to play raids. Why the hell does that irk you so?

I felt like the Triple Trouble wurm handled multiple specs and roles in a fight quite well.

Aside from the main zerg, you need 1 reflect team and one condition damage team. The Reflect teams makes sure eggs don’t spawn using reflects at the right time and the condition team slowly kills the husks with condition damage (they take next to no direct damage) while controlling their movement with control skills (one pull and lots of chill/cripple/immobilize).

If future raids were designed, I feel like each encounter should have a number of “specialist” teams to add complexity to the fight and maybe even some build diversity.

Asmodeus.5782:

Valento.9852:

Keep in mind that the main subject is about an ADDITION called “raids”, not wiping current dungeons or instances. So if YOU are satisfied with what we have now, by all means keep playing those, but aside from pathetical rage all these hatred posts contribute to nothing.

The unnerfed and actually somewhat difficult dungeon content, after the trait-related rescaling, has been limited to 2 dungeons + fractals. So yeah.

I’d love to see something that adds content for me, instead of demolishing it (hi, megaserver and NPE!), so I really hope that small guilds will be included without the need to search for alliances and switching the representation all the time.

How small of a guild are you talking? Unfortunately “raiding” implies large groups (around 10 or more) so if your guild is smaller than that, you will be limited to regular dungeons, etc. I mean think of it in terms of brackets. If you are not even in a guild (solo bracket), you might look at a dungeon (5 man bracket) and feel excluded because it requires more people than you have (1). Well, the obvious course of action is to find more people. If your guild is too small for a 10-man raid, then you should maybe find more people?

Xenon.4537:

. Well, the obvious course of action is to find more people. If your guild is too small for a 10-man raid, then you should maybe find more people?

Well, we really do not want to. We like our own company and the general quality of our guild chat. Most people we happen to recruit are either too young or too bent on loot to stay with us, anyway. But if the system just allowed us to press Y and temporarily join other people for a raid, that would be just dandy. Doing everything ‘by the book’ and in the cookie-cutting manner is boring anyway. In PUGs at least you have to improvise, sometimes.

We can muster 5 people. Enough for a dungeon. Most of the dungeons in the game have been nerfed into oblivion and made dreadfully easy. As I mentioned before.

I’ll make a more formal post when the CDI actually goes up but I think expanding the LFG tool to help fill up raids (of any size) would be a good idea. Especially since people use it currently to organize Teq and sometimes Dry Top.

azizul.8469:

LOTRO raid is the best MMO raid for PvE i played so far.

100% agreed, although I wasn’t in a guild that killed all the T2s at the time it was really fun! And if a PvE-skill split were to happen there is also alot of good things that could be picked up. Every class in lotro had a distinctive feel and all (most) of them were really fun to play.

The only way i can see raids working in GW2 is to be a lot like a horde mode in some fps / 3dps games where you have a places to def or some place to get to but you must go though waves of mobs to get there.

So the “tanks” would be more on the lines of putting down impassable lines the dps would be just that dmg and the support would be more on the lines of helping the tanks hold the mobs from coming after the dps. In a game like GW2 you cant let ppl pull only 2-3 mobs at a time you need to be on the lines of pulling 10 to 20 mobs even more for groups bigger then 10.

Asmodeus.5782:

Xenon.4537:

. Well, the obvious course of action is to find more people. If your guild is too small for a 10-man raid, then you should maybe find more people?

Well, we really do not want to. We like our own company and the general quality of our guild chat. Most people we happen to recruit are either too young or too bent on loot to stay with us, anyway. But if the system just allowed us to press Y and temporarily join other people for a raid, that would be just dandy. Doing everything ‘by the book’ and in the cookie-cutting manner is boring anyway. In PUGs at least you have to improvise, sometimes.

We can muster 5 people. Enough for a dungeon. Most of the dungeons in the game have been nerfed into oblivion and made dreadfully easy. As I mentioned before.

It’s perfectly fine to have a small, close-knit guild. I fully understand. However that’s your choice. The way you conduct your guild does not override the rest of the game. If a large guild wants raiding, that does not negatively affect your small guild, it simply gives the large guild something extra to do.

What I’m saying is the size and composition of one group of people should not be justification to infringe on another group of people. This issue reminds me of gay marriage. A gay couple getting married doesn’t affect anyone but them. A large guild raiding should not affect anyone but them.

And before you scream “elitism” let me repeat that GW2 raiding doesn’t need to have gearscore or any kind of gating. It can be as simple as the dungeon system is now, just with larger party sizes. The notion that raiding in GW2 will create disparity and divide the community is a phobia leftover from old, archaic MMOs.

You still avoid the crucial question, Xenon. Why shouldn’t the LFG system let us join this content together with several other tiny groups? What harm would it do? Because I have no idea what are you defending, exactly. Looks like arguing for the sake of arguing itself.

i had an interesting idea for raid content and I am interested to hear what you guys thought about it: World Boss Rush.

ideally it would be guild specific. the idea behind it would be that guilds could collect and go into an instance that would match them against each of the world bosses one by one, except they would be massively scaled up in difficulty (maybe just slight for teq or wurm). Each guild would have 1 week to take down these bosses, each would give heightened rewards (compared to open world) and you would get a bonus reward for taking them all down in the week. I think it would be cool if u got tokens for completing all or some of them that you could buy profession or class specific armors with!

i really enjoy the world boss fights, but unfortunately they are all way too easy. i think this would allow people to properly appreciate the current content in a new and exciting way. By making this a separate instance i don’t think it would affect the world boss trains either. These bosses would need to actually strategies and coordinate to defeat them.

some other ideas i had are that it could be scale-able like fractals, so that as guilds or pugs get better at doing them, they can make it harder and increase their loot. the top difficulties could be among the hardest content in the game and give rewards that people would be envious of. the bosses could even apply agony in higher difficulties, thus giving another incentive to grind fractals.

what do you guys think about this?

Dalanor.5387:

Draknar.5748:

Those that believe gaming is about running dungeons over and over to farm for gold are the ones that are ruining the era of video games, not the other way around…..

Do you believe speedrunning dungeons for highest gold/hr rate is what constitutes “actually playing the game”? If so, that’s what’s sad.

For you and to whoever agree with you. [VIDEO HERE]

I don’t agree with the video but GW2 has almost no mechanics you have to care about, not even a C-movie story and only a few challenges worth mentioning (such as lupicus solo or lvl50 fractals).

kitten , I really wished ANet updated mobs, since 99% of trash mobs that melt in 1-3 seconds when under berserker DPS “Stand-spam-DPS” is not very Support or Control build friendly…

Well, hopefully the mobs in these raids are not gonna be “99% 1-3 second dead mobs vs berserker DPS”…

FrostSpectre.4198:

kitten I really wished ANet updated mobs, since 99% of trash mobs that melt in 1-3 seconds when under berserker DPS “Stand-spam-DPS”…

Well, hopefully the mobs in these raids are not gonna be “99% 1-3 second dead mobs vs berserker DPS”…

That is a big part of the problem with zerker in general. Unless they use other universally annoying tactics for the mobs, Beserker stats just dominate overall. Anet goes for the 1-2 hit K.O. which invalidates the need for toughness or healing mechanics that could be used to support that gameplay. They pretty much wrote themselves into a corner when they decided beserker stats was a good idea.

i think the point has been made that some people don’t liker zerker gear or mindless trash clearing. Lets try to keep this discussion civil and constructive, that’s the only way our input can have a chance to affect the game!

Just a reminder: there will be a CDI on raids very soon, polish your ideas and thoughts for such thread so we can make something useful out of the discussion.

EgonVenkman.1907:

That is a big part of the problem with zerker in general. Unless they use other universally annoying tactics for the mobs, Beserker stats just dominate overall. Anet goes for the 1-2 hit K.O. which invalidates the need for toughness or healing mechanics that could be used to support that gameplay. They pretty much wrote themselves into a corner when they decided beserker stats was a good idea.

I think many people miss the point on the berserker dominance “issue”.

Optimized groups DO have the trinity of damage/control/support. Control come in the form of projectile negation and bump, support comes in the form of aegis, protection and might. Players can perform these roles while wearing zerker/assassin.

Berserker is not bad because it deals the most damage. It is bad because under the current system it allows you to clear most bosses quickly enough to skip their entire fight mechanic.

The most overused example is how optimised groups can clear the spider queen in AC. Most of us PuG AC. In this context, the group usually range the spider and try to dodge its poison areas (you do not stand idle pressing 1 while doing this btw). While repetitive and boring, it does require you to know when to dodge and when to clean immobilize.
An optimised group usually kills the spider under 4 seconds, which prevent the boss to use any of its attacks (including poison area) basically neutering the encounter and making it uninteresting, since you are just repeating your rotation and the might stacking. And the only thing you do during almost every encounter in the kitten ed dungeon is repeat the sequence pre-stack -> rotation. This makes things boring very quickly.

Berzerker gear was intended to be the gear of the top 5% elite players because only these people are skilled enough to be viable with such fragility. Because of loopholes in encounter design, 90% of the people can carry berserker armour and be viable in dungeon. This is the true problem behind the berserker dominance. Berserker stat is not a problem in itself and removing it won’t change anything.

what about raids ?

The major danger of implementing raids especially if its a 2-party-of-five dungeon is to have most of its interesting elements neutralized by the same tactic.
Having giant overpowered monsters like tequatl that are immuned to criticals and render condition builds ineffective because of engine limitations has at least two qualities :
– the optimized gear is not berserker anymore (it’s PVT)
– you have more leeway in what gear you can bring
– no way you can find a strategy that is so efficient that you wreck the megaboss before it can unleash its attacks, making it a challenge just because you have to stay on your toes even though you know the encounter by heart.

Asmodeus.5782:

Hunter, guilds with thousands of players, like TTS, are soulless behemoths and participating in them brings me no pleasure whatsoever. And most normal large guilds won’t stand for a non-representing leech.

Usually people like you love to generalize without the slightest idea about the person with whom they’re talking. I really have no desire to explain my love for truly difficult content and hatred for megaguilds and/or zergs.

I just hope that my small guild will be able to use the lfg system to find some other, smaller groups, without need to socialize with hundreds in order to play raids. Why the hell does that irk you so?

Ah stop being so melodramatic.

Fact of the matter is large organized zergs are part of this game and a ton of players like em, just look at WvW and Teq/wyrm/Temple bosses.

There is a reason why u have 5 guild slots. Learn how to use them. You like to be in a 5 person guild? Thats fine, however there is also a reason why the guild cap is 500 players.

You choose to play the game casually in a small party format ala old school games with an online component and thats great, but at the end you will miss up on some content. That is the nature of MMOs.

If i don’t ever wanna party with anyone the game allows me to hit max cap and finish personal storyline but i cannot in good consciousness for everything to be changed according to my playstyle because its not what MMOs are.

There is nothing stopping you from asking more people to join ur guild and play together.

I still do not understand why are you opposing my LFG plea, which has absolutely no ramifications for your precious raid content whatsoever. Maybe except it being welcome and liked by more people than without this option. ;D

Bri.8354:

What’s with all this hatred towards complex and challenging content? Are the people against raids even interested in the core game mechanics?

I for one would love to have raids if they are built properly. New activities, mechanics, and levels of challenge are always something I look forward to.

I think there is a fallacy here … raids don’t necessarily equate to complex or challenging content. The same argument is for dungeons. That could be challenging content if it’s designed properly as well, but it’s not for many people. Raids are simply more complex and with greater risk of being able to zerg them. Frankly, I don’t even see how a raid is going to be different from guild missions/Teq/worms/Jormag. Really, it’s a large group of people all attacking a mob with some kind of ‘do this at this time’ mechanic to make people pay attention. We don’t even have trinity, so from a roles perspective, raids are just a zerg of people doing damage. I think there are going to be many disappointments if raids are implemented in this game.