Guild Wars 2

I’ve been seeing some rangers camped on a mob spawn letting their pet kill enemies for them, is this considered a form of botting? I know the players are AFK cause they have been there for a couple of hours.

Sounds like the mobs need abit of updating, if a pet set to defend is enough to kill them…

Where exactly does it happen?

This is not botting. Just a “clever use of game mechanics”.

Thanks, I won’t report them then, maybe I’ll do it myself lol

What would they even gain from doing that?

I thought I read somewhere that pet-only kills give nothing in return…

Thanks for the clarification!

Michael Henninger.7451:

This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.

are u sure about this? when I was doing this I got GM showing up everyday checking me out to see if I was botting they even teleport me around for no reason, I know eng get banned for using their turrets.

This is new then. I’ve seen posts from people who were sanctioned for afk farming on a ranger and a Red post comment a long time ago, that afk farming wasn’t allowed.

kurfu.5623:

What would they even gain from doing that?

I thought I read somewhere that pet-only kills give nothing in return…

One possibility is that they simply went afk and were relying on the pet to keep them alive, rather than trying to get anything from it. I main a ranger and I have to admit I have a bad habit of doing that. As long as you don’t get more than 1 or 2 enemies attacking at once (they have to attack you for the pet to start attacking them) and you have time to heal in between it can work.

But if I remember correctly there have been times when I’ve come back and found loot from enemies my pet killed. I’m not sure if it requires any more than them killing something for that to happen though.

But even so it would be a very inefficient way to obtain anything. As mentioned above the pet can only handle a couple of enemies at a time and takes a while to kill them (and this is using cats, which have reasonable DPS). So you’d have to be sure there was going to be a steady stream of enemies but never more than a couple at a time. Which in turn means you have to be there for a long time to get anything from it, and loot will disappear if you don’t pick it up quickly enough so you can’t just go away for hours and come back to get it. (And as soon as you add anything like a macro to push F periodically to collect it that’s botting and you can be banned for it.)

Here is the red post I remember. They were talking about general automated playing where you set the char up in some way and leave the game running, and it was 3 years ago.

Has there ever been an official response on what is considered botting

Michael Henninger.7451:

This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.

This seems like an ArenaNet policy U-Turn to me, as I also remember what Just a flesh wound says:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

This is new then. I’ve seen posts from people who were sanctioned for afk farming on a ranger and a Red post comment a long time ago, that afk farming wasn’t allowed.

Also, I take it if ranger AFK farming is allowed, that the necromancers in Dredgehaunt Cliffs using minions to farm for them whilst the players are asleep (like, 03:30 am UK time) that I have been reporting are allowed too?

Edit: Please re-consider this position!

Michael Henninger.7451:

This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.

Leaving your character afk for extended periods of time and letting the AI rack up kills for you is allowed? Good to know.

Huh. I would have thought that was not acceptable game play — just look at all the issues with rangers at SW forts. At one point I found a necromancer surrounded by minions in a Jotun camp, clearly afk, and safe even from the veteran Jotun spawn. At another I saw a less efficient reaper afk amongst Nightmare Court autofiring Gravedigger. That one died pretty easily but people kept rezzing her as they didn’t know she was afk. Both left a sour taste in my mouth.

As to the loot disappearing — not any more. Not if you have Pact Commander.

penelopehannibal.8947:

Also, I take it if ranger AFK farming is allowed, that the necromancers in Dredgehaunt Cliffs using minions to farm for them whilst the players are asleep (like, 03:30 am UK time) that I have been reporting are allowed too?

That could be different. Time of day doesn’t really matter because they could be living in a different part of the world, and it could be the next day or earlier than it is where you are. But if they’re standing still for hours with the permanent minions out, then yeah, I’d call that odd behavior.

pet only kills don’t net you any loot or xp, so what’s the benefit to the player? I agree with others, they were probably AFK.

kurfu.5623:

What would they even gain from doing that?

I thought I read somewhere that pet-only kills give nothing in return…

You initially will get some coin/trash drops back, but DR kicks you in a matter of minutes if you kill the exact same 5 mobs over and over again.

I don’t mind rangers using pets while afk. I just wish they’d stop using LB4 when melee classes are fighting the same enemy.

Mouse.3608:

kurfu.5623:

What would they even gain from doing that?

I thought I read somewhere that pet-only kills give nothing in return…

You initially will get some coin/trash drops back, but DR kicks you in a matter of minutes if you kill the exact same 5 mobs over and over again.

That’s not correct. Pet only kills don’t give anything. I’ve routinely had a pet agro something I didn’t walk by or get agro – it’ll kill it and run back, with no xp for me.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Here is the red post I remember. They were talking about general automated playing where you set the char up in some way and leave the game running, and it was 3 years ago.

Has there ever been an official response on what is considered botting

She probably meant third party software because in this case game automates itself without any external help thanks to the way classes are designed. Which basically means that afking on a class with AI pets or passive traits that can kill mobs(ranger, ele, guardian, necro, engi) is considered a breach of the User Agreement.

One of the few things our pets do correctly.

Danikat.8537:

kurfu.5623:

What would they even gain from doing that?

I thought I read somewhere that pet-only kills give nothing in return…

One possibility is that they simply went afk and were relying on the pet to keep them alive, rather than trying to get anything from it. I main a ranger and I have to admit I have a bad habit of doing that.

Me too.

I don’t do it to get anything (I don’t have auto-loot, yet), I just have to go AFK sometimes without much warning.

Thing is, the player should not really be getting loot/xp/karma/event credit while doing that, and despite in the past it being said they wouldn’t, last I knew they actually still can, provided the mob hits the ranger (may also require having a skill on autocast, I forget exactly what made it work, and don’t really want to load it up to test it specifically again. I just know it’s really frustrating to see people with skills on autocast, regardless of profession, getting credit for kills/events while everyone else is actually playing the game).

DragOneve.2359:

I’ve been seeing some rangers camped on a mob spawn letting their pet kill enemies for them, is this considered a form of botting? I know the players are AFK cause they have been there for a couple of hours.

I see it all the time and have sent in screenshots and reports of it, where the person clearly has an bot program set up for their Ranger or Necro to use a certain skill to tag said mob, then have their pet/minion auto attack.

Saw one Necro in the same spot for days just north of Pact Encampment in Verdant Brink where the veteran tiger and his few little pals spawn on the cliff edge. I stood there, spoke to him… walked around him.. watched the series of bot movements exactly timed out, no matter if mobs were near him or not.

Yeah. See this all the time. After the blatantly botting necro and his minions went ignored, I stopped bothering.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

This is new then. I’ve seen posts from people who were sanctioned for afk farming on a ranger and a Red post comment a long time ago, that afk farming wasn’t allowed.

What was actually sanctioned was using methods that circumvented natural timeout forced logout (like putting heal on auto) when afk pet farming.
Also, pet only kills now don’t give you drops or xp.
Now, if you use some sort of script (or similar) to afk tag mobs so you can get xp/drops from them, that most likely is botting.

orenwolf.1953:

Mouse.3608:

kurfu.5623:

What would they even gain from doing that?

I thought I read somewhere that pet-only kills give nothing in return…

You initially will get some coin/trash drops back, but DR kicks you in a matter of minutes if you kill the exact same 5 mobs over and over again.

That’s not correct. Pet only kills don’t give anything. I’ve routinely had a pet agro something I didn’t walk by or get agro – it’ll kill it and run back, with no xp for me.

i know a druid with a bristleback pet and he/she farm separatist in Blazeridge steppes. I play on average between 3 or 4 hours per days … when i log in he is there .. when i log out he is still there …

The separatist spawns always at the same place and the pet kills everything .. and yes the druid is getting loot as you can clearly see the golden particles(autoloot) flying from the separatist corpses to the druid …. probably farming the bags from the separatist for the linen …. and this is going on since weeks .. i presume the druid is getting something out of it otherwise i don’t see any other reasons for doing it .

I always see rangers inside of Not So Secret JP afking with like a trap or bonfire on auto attack. I assume they are doing it because of the blade shards.

If Ranger pet-only kills aren’t supposed to give loot/coin, then my client must be bugged.
Many a time, I will be at a Heart NPC, or other NPC, with the window open, a mob will come to attack, my pet will kill it all by itself, and I get loot.

Unless it has changed in the last day or so….

Found a merged thread on the issue from about a month ago. There is another post within that thread that links to another post by Chris Cleary on the issue of bots and autoheals/pets/autodefend.

The threads have the topics of botting/simple afk for a little bit, discussed at great length, but it seems to me, there is an intent to not play in the spirit of the game when it goes on.. and on and on.

Ah well. Their game.

orenwolf.1953:

Mouse.3608:

kurfu.5623:

What would they even gain from doing that?

I thought I read somewhere that pet-only kills give nothing in return…

You initially will get some coin/trash drops back, but DR kicks you in a matter of minutes if you kill the exact same 5 mobs over and over again.

That’s not correct. Pet only kills don’t give anything. I’ve routinely had a pet agro something I didn’t walk by or get agro – it’ll kill it and run back, with no xp for me.

Just tested this in the place I spoke of above, with my Ranger. I never used any skill of mine. Just stood there and the tigers attacked and my pet auto-defended.

Yeah, it works just fine on Rangers. I’ll test this with my Necro next, but I don’t think my results are going to differ

• Edit- 4th screenshot added-It works with my Necro, too

so you get loot and XP …..

Astralporing.1957:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

This is new then. I’ve seen posts from people who were sanctioned for afk farming on a ranger and a Red post comment a long time ago, that afk farming wasn’t allowed.

What was actually sanctioned was using methods that circumvented natural timeout forced logout (like putting heal on auto) when afk pet farming.
Also, pet only kills now don’t give you drops or xp.
Now, if you use some sort of script (or similar) to afk tag mobs so you can get xp/drops from them, that most likely is botting.

Not true. I just checked. Pet only kills give you both drops and XP.

Endless Soul.5178:

I don’t mind rangers using pets while afk. I just wish they’d stop using LB4 when melee classes are fighting the same enemy.

LOL, as if the other professions always use knockbacks properly. —It is not a ranger only problem.

Michael Henninger.7451:

This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.

I’m spending/wasting my time for running, killing and assisting others while people who just parked and left game idle with one class and probably class build/feature that keeps them without being kicked out are rewarded for my and other’s time aren’t considering as botting and abusing but as game feature? What the hell?!

If this is a “game feature” then release official api that will allow people to build bots.

This is the weirdest and unfair statement I ever encountered in GW2.

RoseofGilead.8907:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Also, I take it if ranger AFK farming is allowed, that the necromancers in Dredgehaunt Cliffs using minions to farm for them whilst the players are asleep (like, 03:30 am UK time) that I have been reporting are allowed too?

That could be different. Time of day doesn’t really matter because they could be living in a different part of the world, and it could be the next day or earlier than it is where you are. But if they’re standing still for hours with the permanent minions out, then yeah, I’d call that odd behavior.

Of course a different timezone can be the case for anyone, but these particular ones are stood still for hours on end. In fact, earlier today I spotted two of the necromancers actually constantly using Staff Skill 1 repeatedly whilst stood still and were using the skill whether there were any enemies present or not!

This doesn’t sound like botting because it is using in-game systems but it definitely sounds like an exploit. They are using a system in a way that is certainly not intended – to gain XP and loot while AFK for very extended periods of time. That can’t be healthy for the game to leave these zombies all over the place slurping up loot from the efforts of others or from the automation of their pets. Perhaps the timeout needs to be tweaked to detect and ignore auto-attacks, especially in the absence of movement?

Somehow I think Michael needs to re-read the OP, because this has always been discouraged in past.
Regarding XP and diminishing returns – what I’ve been seeing is rangers sitting on regularly recurring events with their pet doing all the work. In that situation they’re always getting some level of reward regardless of whether they’re hit by DR.

There is now also a reddit post about this, and the word is spreading as if it really is ok – which if it really is ok then fair enough, but if it’s a mistake (everyone’s only human, so let’s not get out our pitchforks to the devs!) then it needs extinguishing quickly before more AFK Rangers and/or Necromancers come out of the woodwork!

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ds2c1/afk_farming_with_minions_are_allowed_behavior/

A similar situation was brought up in another thread a couple weeks ago, and the conclusion that people seemed to come to there was hanging out afk for geodes is an exploit. Admittedly no dev stepped in to say something either way….

I don’t yet see the difference between that previous thread’s version of afk exploitation and what’s been brought up in this thread other than the lewt…. o.O

~EW

edit: and personally I’d love to know if that means it’s not an exploit if I afk while waiting for Pristine Spore Samples to respawn… please, oh please let that be the case….

Siobhan.5273:

orenwolf.1953:

Mouse.3608:

kurfu.5623:

What would they even gain from doing that?

I thought I read somewhere that pet-only kills give nothing in return…

You initially will get some coin/trash drops back, but DR kicks you in a matter of minutes if you kill the exact same 5 mobs over and over again.

That’s not correct. Pet only kills don’t give anything. I’ve routinely had a pet agro something I didn’t walk by or get agro – it’ll kill it and run back, with no xp for me.

Just tested this in the place I spoke of above, with my Ranger. I never used any skill of mine. Just stood there and the tigers attacked and my pet auto-defended.

Yeah, it works just fine on Rangers. I’ll test this with my Necro next, but I don’t think my results are going to differ

• Edit- 4th screenshot added-It works with my Necro, too

Well I’m glad you took the time to do it, as it shows what we’ve always seen in the past, despite what we were told. I’ve never liked people sitting there afk farming events/mobs. Only reason I’d remotely want a pk mechanic… It’s one thing to go afk for a bit to answer a phone/door/get food/make food/walk dog/whatever, it’s another to set it and go to work while it farms for you. It is effectively no different than a bot, only the implementation of not using a 3rd party.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Siobhan.5273:

orenwolf.1953:

Mouse.3608:

kurfu.5623:

What would they even gain from doing that?

I thought I read somewhere that pet-only kills give nothing in return…

You initially will get some coin/trash drops back, but DR kicks you in a matter of minutes if you kill the exact same 5 mobs over and over again.

That’s not correct. Pet only kills don’t give anything. I’ve routinely had a pet agro something I didn’t walk by or get agro – it’ll kill it and run back, with no xp for me.

Just tested this in the place I spoke of above, with my Ranger. I never used any skill of mine. Just stood there and the tigers attacked and my pet auto-defended.

Yeah, it works just fine on Rangers. I’ll test this with my Necro next, but I don’t think my results are going to differ

• Edit- 4th screenshot added-It works with my Necro, too

Well I’m glad you took the time to do it, as it shows what we’ve always seen in the past, despite what we were told. I’ve never liked people sitting there afk farming events/mobs. Only reason I’d remotely want a pk mechanic… It’s one thing to go afk for a bit to answer a phone/door/get food/make food/walk dog/whatever, it’s another to set it and go to work while it farms for you. It is effectively no different than a bot, only the implementation of not using a 3rd party.

Thanks and no problem

I agree with you. I see it all over the place and as you, and many others have stated, it’s one thing to go for a drink, move the cat, tend the child, empty your bladder, but we’ve all likely seen this kind of thing go on for hours, even days at a time. I’ve gone to this tiger spot after reporting the person, and saw him every time I went there afterwards, for days on end, day or night.

SW, DT, wherever, whenever. Macro/bot/auto-heal/signet/clever use of game mechanics, etc. it’s all phooey IMO and it goes against what I feel is the intended spirit and mechanics of the game. However, if that’s how they want the game populated, good to know not to send in tickets on the issue at least.

I noticed my pet dealing quite a bit of dmg months ago and let it just kill some ogres for like 10 min. While it works, I just don’t see the point.

Justine.6351:

While it works, I just don’t see the point.

Free loot while you clean your dishes.

Michael Henninger.7451:

This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.

Despite the fact it probably falls under “unattended gameplay”?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Justine.6351:

While it works, I just don’t see the point.

Free loot while you clean your dishes.

Oh yeah all 10 of those greens and blues for 5hrs of afk. I get that in 20min of playing the game casually.

Michael Henninger.7451:

This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.

Unless your policies have changed recently, that is incorrect.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-an-engineer-going-AFK-with-turrets-up-considered-an-exploit/first#post337232 CC Dalmarus

Anything that enables a person to play the game without actually playing the game is a problem, such as using third party programs to automate game play.

Going AFK with turrets running isn’t technically an exploit, but players should be playing the game in good faith.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/After-reading-these-forums-slightly-worried/first#post277742 Gaile Gray

We do not consider “not answering a whisper” as an indictment. Please do not worry about this; as long as you legitimately are playing, or are not gaining undeserved rewards when not playing, you’re just fine.

This one was very clear https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/Has-there-ever-been-an-official-response-on-what-is-considered-botting/first#post204144 Regina Buenaobra

Anything that automates game play to the point where you are able to not actually play the game as-intended (example: you can walk away from it) is considered a breach of the User Agreement.

Using ranger pets or necro minions to kill stuff while not actively playing the game is considered “Extended Unattended Play” and players have been suspended/banned for it in the past.

I don’t know about now, but it was a major problem in the past in Dry Top and Silverwastes. Often times these AFK players with pets/minions are using macros and/or bot programs to prevent the AFK timer from kicking in and logging them out of the game.

Charrbeque.8729:

Michael Henninger.7451:

This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.

Unless your policies have changed recently, that is incorrect.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Is-an-engineer-going-AFK-with-turrets-up-considered-an-exploit/first#post337232 CC Dalmarus

Anything that enables a person to play the game without actually playing the game is a problem, such as using third party programs to automate game play.

Going AFK with turrets running isn’t technically an exploit, but players should be playing the game in good faith.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/support/After-reading-these-forums-slightly-worried/first#post277742 Gaile Gray

We do not consider “not answering a whisper” as an indictment. Please do not worry about this; as long as you legitimately are playing, or are not gaining undeserved rewards when not playing, you’re just fine.

This one was very clear https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/players/Has-there-ever-been-an-official-response-on-what-is-considered-botting/first#post204144 Regina Buenaobra

Anything that automates game play to the point where you are able to not actually play the game as-intended (example: you can walk away from it) is considered a breach of the User Agreement.

I don’t know about now, but it was a major problem in the past in Dry Top and Silverwastes. Often times these AFK players with pets/minions are using macros and/or bot programs to prevent the AFK timer from kicking in and logging them out of the game.

Rangers afk botting in SW was a major problem. Players eventually learned to leave the player for dead because they unfairly got rewards from the forts.

Wait, what?
I did this “farm” aswell, beofre that I asked the CS, they told me it’s okay, so I started farming this way when I was not on the PC. A couple of months later I got banned for a cocuple of hours, so I contacted the CS again and they still told me that this is okay but if I plan to be afk for a longer period of time I have to either close the game or park my character in lions arch. And now the Game Support lead says something else again…. That’s weird.

Michael Henninger.7451:

This is allowed behavior; as it was designed to function that way.

Then Why were engineer turrets nerfed for this very same reason ?
heck those took utility slots at least and never scaled with player stats

Justine.6351:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Justine.6351:

While it works, I just don’t see the point.

Free loot while you clean your dishes.

Oh yeah all 10 of those greens and blues for 5hrs of afk. I get that in 20min of playing the game casually.

lol .. no iv seen AFK Ranger pet & Necro minions killing Separatists in blazeridge steppe or the nightmare court in Mount Maelstrom for the bags.. in a couple hours you can get a decent amount of linen and leather .. so yes you can let your client run like this for days and occasionally play your 20 mins. this is unfair and should be not allowed