Guild Wars 2

I think if you were to ask ANY class, they’d provide you with a long laundry list of things that need to change.

And while I think speed clears are a TERRIBLE way to determine the overall value of a class, I can play that game. If ranger is so awful, why would they even have ONE in the group? There’s eight classes after all, and only five slots. I mean, why would any group willingly take a “bottom” tier class?

The answer? They wouldn’t.

Atherakhia.4086:

chemiclord.3978:

Galtrix.7369:

Compare the dps and survivability to other classes yourself. Fanboys will tell you that the Ranger is fine as is, and people that have played the Ranger class since GW1 will tell you that it sucks. I can tell you from personal experience, because I’ve played GW1, that the Ranger class has sucked and will continue to suck for the rest of GW2’s career.

But you don’t have to take other people’s opinion on it. Just compare for yourself.

Funny, because I’ve played Ranger since GW1 and think it’s… I dunno if I’d say “fine”, as there are many mechanics that at least need some attention (like Pet AI), but I hang in there with the big damage dealers just fine, thank you very much.

tl;dr version: Your claim is incorrect, because Ranger certainly doesn’t suck.

Is it the Ranger doesn’t suck or everyone you grouped with sucked which made you have a inflated opinion of your own abilities?

Fact of the matter is that a Ranger was in the group for the CoF speed clear which currently holds the top time. It’s a really simple question. If the Ranger was so good, why didn’t the group drop one of their Thieves in favor of a second Ranger? It’s not like the Thief brought any utility to the group. The Thief is the only class in the game to provide less utility than a Ranger.

The class is bottom tier. If the class lived up to your opinion of it, more people would have taken notice of it. Rangers would be called out in WvW to provide something useful. Berserker Warriors wouldn’t be the only class wanted in triplicate in groups. The class would have had another option than always the Bunker/Regen build with condis in sPvP.

This is still an MMO and word travels quick. If the Ranger was good it would have a better reputation in this game than it does. There’s just so very much wrong with the class and so very little effort has been done to improve it I’m honestly curious if they removed the class tomorrow if anyone but the actual Ranger players would notice.

My mistake. When I talk about Rangers sucking, I’m talking specifically about longbow rangers. Their dps is lacking a ton in that area. Dps with traps/Shortbow/greatsword are fine at the very least. Please, if you don’t believe me, compare the dps to other classes and see how suckish the ranger class really is.

Galtrix.7369:

My mistake. When I talk about Rangers sucking, I’m talking specifically about longbow rangers. Their dps is lacking a ton in that area. Dps with traps/Shortbow/greatsword are fine at the very least. Please, if you don’t believe me, compare the dps to other classes and see how suckish the ranger class really is.

Well, I agree with that to an extent.

The big problem with longbows and how they work in regards to the ranger class, is I’ve noted before, ranger is really by game mechanics a melee class, and longbow’s maximum effectiveness is at long ranges beyond what you can reasonably reach to and from melee range. On top of that, and especially in dungeons, the fighting areas really aren’t conductive to GETTING that range in the first place.

Longbow is at least serviceable in the open world PvE content, I suppose… and that’s pretty much the only place I’d recommend using it; and even then it’s just a personal choice. I could crank out more damage in melee, but I really don’t like getting lost in large scale zerg situations.

There are ranger builds that can really crank out damage (sword/axe/warhorn trapper is one that I ran with quite effectively), but lately I’ve been playing around with a sword/torch (shortbow secondary) condition and spirit build which has honestly worked better than I would have expected in a dungeon setting. I lose some damage out of the deal, but my groups tend to like Spirit of Frost and Earth. Still haven’t quite settled on the third utility skill yet though.

It doesn’t matter if you melee or not. A rangers damage is offset by his pet no matter what so even if you melee and think you are some god of dps, you are still gonna be doing around 60% of the dps of a dps class. Now if they let rangers stow their pet and “absorb” that pet dps into their own, then that would be great.

As for traiting spirits and stuff to raise the groups dps, it still wont make up for the rangers lost 40% dps. Again I wouldn’t kick one from the group but there is just so much more another class can do better in dungeons. And to play a ranger well you need to micromanage and basically play twice as hard as pretty much any other class to get somewhat close to the effectiveness of another class. I use mine to farm open world stuff cause with the 1500 range on LB, it makes tagging stuff easier but for dungeons, hands down my anchor guard does WAY better and feels like im actually helping my group. And to rub salt in the wound, if I go dps spec on my guard with zerker gear, I do more dps than my ranger in zerker as well……and bring more utility…..

So bottom line from me is if you enjoy the ranger, play it but if you are looking for a class that isn’t completely broken(the whole pet system) and good in dungeons, then search elsewhere.

Let’s hope the lfg tool lets you choose what class you can allow to hotjoin

Let’s say you’re making a lfg, and you got a necro already, so you cross necro of the lfg option so another necro can’t join (dot over-stacking, less dmg)

In that case, ranger would be permanently disabled, everyone’s happy.

Like I said, I use a spider and not a bear. SB is far better because I can get in range of group buffs. The only reason to pull out a LB is to build quick stacks or solo like most rangers seem to do, or use the LB to grief other players. There are far better classes that deal the sword, and that I don’t need to keep reviving.

So you’re actually choosing to be a bad player by saying other classes can deal with sword. Why don’t you just learn it and actually be useful to your party?

Compare the dps and survivability to other classes yourself. Fanboys will tell you that the Ranger is fine as is, and people that have played the Ranger class since GW1 will tell you that it sucks. I can tell you from personal experience, because I’ve played GW1, that the Ranger class has sucked and will continue to suck for the rest of GW2’s career.

But you don’t have to take other people’s opinion on it. Just compare for yourself.

Except I’m not a ranger fanboy at all, I actually looked down on them until experienced players demonstrated that a ranger is actually a good class to take in a dungeon. Even now though, I don’t like running with one unless I know them because they’re most likely a wrongbow/bear camping bad.

It’s a really simple question. If the Ranger was so good, why didn’t the group drop one of their Thieves in favor of a second Ranger?

They didn’t bring a second because you onlyn eed one for utility. You only need one warrior for utility. You only need one mesmer for utility. The two thieves are literally just there for DPS. Does this mean warriors, mesmers and rangers are bad? Not at all, it means rather that stacking them gives you diminishing returns and it’s not worth running more which is perfectly fine.

As for traiting spirits and stuff to raise the groups dps, it still wont make up for the rangers lost 40% dps.

Except spirit and spotter buffs the entire group’s DPS by something like 15% (too lazy to find the actual figure). It’s the same reason a mesmer is taken, their own DPS might be lacking, but the group DPS increase you get from time warp would make it worth it.

And to play a ranger well you need to micromanage and basically play twice as hard as pretty much any other class to get somewhat close to the effectiveness of another class

Oh no, you have to actually use your brain! What a shame. “This class makes me think, therefore it is bad” – and that is why you get people crying for Twilight Arbor Fw/Up nerfs, because they can’t be bothered to use their heads.

hands down my anchor guard does WAY better and feels like im actually helping my group

Well it’s a shame anchors aren’t needed then, your “feeling” is wrong.

That’s right make a warrior instead.

I just want to add that I run a ranger and guardian for much the same reasons others have posted.

Also, I am one those odd-ball berserker rangers using sword/dagger and axe/axe in the pavilion and invasion events. I have Spotter up all the time and can trait in the spirit buff if needed. I also run these events with a stalker on passive mode for the F2 AoE might boon.

I can stack a lot of might with sigils of strength in both main-hand weapons (sigils of accuracy on all off-hand weapons) that I share with my cats. Even if both cats go down, I can still do some damage without them.

I have not taken this build into dungeons, as I stopped running dungeons on my ranger back in Feb after leveling a guardian. However, in open world PvE, this seems to work ok and I can provide some support.

Many players do not expect to see a ranger using sword/xxx. I cannot recall seeing any other rangers using this set-up.

Personally I like the feel and flow of the ranger abilities. That’s about where it stops though.

Pet AI sucks and so does their survivability… and dps… and they don’t like using their f2s… and.. uh lets just forget the pets…

It’s a fun class, but if you are worried about doing really well instead of just kind of okay; then you might want a different class. If you are playing a ranger in part because you like longbows; don’t get your hopes up. The ranger longbow in GW2 is designed to be good at max range (about 1200-1500, you can squeeze out a bit more range by attacking manually), but with how battles end up playing out you usually fight at about a max of melee-600 or so range. This means your longbow can be a great secondary weapon in many cases, but lacks the potency to really be anything else due to its range penalty.

Don’t get the wrong idea though; rangers can do alright with the right player in general. They are kind of just stuck in limbo compared to other classes.

I am just going to chime in here and don’t stone me :P
Any class is a good class because it largely depends on the player playing the class.

I suck at guardian and warrior for example- I just cannot keep them alive.
I am good at Engi, Mesmer and Ranger.

Some classes just either gell with you or not.
Ranger is what you make it

Its pure easy mode. With the right build its as tanky as a guardian, has mobility, and is ranged. Who could ask for anything more?

Meglobob.8620:

That’s true but how often is your target at max range? Hardly ever? 20% of the time and I am being generous, at the other ranges Warriors win.

- You’re at maximum range by default in WvW. Just don’t get close to your enemies.

Ranger is actually the second most played class in the game.

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/news/guild-wars-2-first-year-infographic

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Ranger is actually the second most played class in the game.

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/news/guild-wars-2-first-year-infographic

Because they’re popular botting classes. Don’t throw stupid numbers like that.

Morrigan.2809:

I am just going to chime in here and don’t stone me :P
Any class is a good class because it largely depends on the player playing the class.

I suck at guardian and warrior for example- I just cannot keep them alive.
I am good at Engi, Mesmer and Ranger.

Some classes just either gell with you or not.
Ranger is what you make it

No.

Just because someone claims to suck comparatively less with a certain class, design flaws don’t just go away.

Charak.9761:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Ranger is actually the second most played class in the game.

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/news/guild-wars-2-first-year-infographic

Because they’re popular botting classes. Don’t throw stupid numbers like that.

I find they are quite popular in SPVP Hotjoin and in open world pve there are heaps, maybe 20% of players or more.

In WvW its a different story, the big servers love their mele trains.

Charak.9761:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Ranger is actually the second most played class in the game.

http://www.guildwars2hub.com/news/guild-wars-2-first-year-infographic

Because they’re popular botting classes. Don’t throw stupid numbers like that.

The numbers aren’t stupid at all. I just said they are the second most played class, and they are. You are talking about motives.

wintermute.4096:

Morrigan.2809:

I am just going to chime in here and don’t stone me :P
Any class is a good class because it largely depends on the player playing the class.

I suck at guardian and warrior for example- I just cannot keep them alive.
I am good at Engi, Mesmer and Ranger.

Some classes just either gell with you or not.
Ranger is what you make it

No.

Just because someone claims to suck comparatively less with a certain class, design flaws don’t just go away.

I never said I sucked,
I said I sucked at Guardian and Warrior

Ranger is a fun class and it is great for what I use it for which is soloing champs, open PvE and the gauntlet.
Hey I even manage to keep my pets alive most of the time- whoo hoo.

Ranger is a fun class to play for me, so is Engi and so is Mesmer.
I don’t care if people think that 2 of those are broken classes, I’ll play them any day because I enjoy them
That was why I suggested OP makes up his own mind.

I’ve played a Ranger for almost a year now, and I think they’re very good. If you learn to control your pet right, you can lure enemies into traps, or shift aggro from yourself to your pet. As for bows, Longbows are very much a long-range weapon – using them up close will do very low damage, but at a range, they have great damage potential. Shortbows can put on alot of conditions and stun opponents, which is quite helpful in dungeons, and can make you very evasive and difficult to kill.

Pets are quite possibly the most diversified class-specific skill in the game. You can have high-damage glass cannons, tanks, pets that give teammates boons, pets that debuff the enemy, pets that attack from a range…the list goes on. They CAN be vunerable to AoE skills though, so skills like Signet of Stone are useful. (To make best use of your pet, I suggest putting 20 points in the Beastmaster trait line – this ensures that they are tanky enough to take hits, but also have enough damage to contribute to a team).

As for direct damage, any class will do alot of damage if you build them right, Rangers included. I went for a full-attack build, and I think my damage is on-par with a good thief in dungeons. I’d reccomend a precision-power-condition damage build if you’re using shortbows/swords/daggers, and a power-precision-crit damage build if you prefer longbows and greatswords. Quickening Zephyr and Rampage as One give Rangers alot of damage if used at the right time, and can be devastating burst damage in PvE or WvW.

Overall, Rangers are a class you’ll have to practice with and build right to get the most out of them. But once you get used to them, they’re definitely just as useful as any other class, and can offer dungeon teams an awful lot with their sheer versatility.

Zenith.6403:

Meglobob.8620:

That’s true but how often is your target at max range? Hardly ever? 20% of the time and I am being generous, at the other ranges Warriors win.

- You’re at maximum range by default in WvW. Just don’t get close to your enemies.

So, you can keep enemies at 1200-1500 range all the time, no matter what? Are you a Viz who hugs there tower/keep all day long?

You should make a vid, showing us all how to keep all enemies at 1200-1500…

I’ve always had a hard time choosing a class, but in the end I find you’ll go blind trying to get an answer because really most of them are opinion based. So, in the end, play what role sounds most fun: Pally like class or woodsman?

Seriously though that is what I have to do sometimes. I think in terms of actually role playing….who do I want to be? To hell with the number crunching and theory crafting. Simply who to you want to be? Then save the nit picky research for how to maximize your build.

The Ranger class is meant to be the “Jack of all Trades”, so of course if you build it right, then it definitely does have potential. But if I want to play a longbow Ranger, I shouldn’t be punished for it by having almost non-existent damage. I played a longbow Ranger in GW1, and I wanted to play it in GW2, but apparently this game is optimized for berserker gear and the best weapons, which the Longbow isn’t.

Heck, I even resorted to playing a trap-based Ranger, and the DPS was pretty decent, but it was so boring to play that I couldn’t do it for more than a week.

Shortbows can put on alot of conditions and stun opponents, which is quite helpful in dungeons, and can make you very evasive and difficult to kill.

No, shortbow is not helpful in dungeons.

I went for a full-attack build, and I think my damage is on-par with a good thief in dungeons. I’d reccomend a precision-power-condition damage build if you’re using shortbows/swords/daggers, and a power-precision-crit damage build if you prefer longbows and greatswords.

And any decent ranger will be using berserker no matter what weapon they have equipped.

Direct damage > condition damage.

Again, the ranger boils down entirely to how competent the player is. Any player which camps their bow and doesn’t bother melee is basically forever condemned to being bad on their ranger.

It’s probably because they are weak and a popular profession, but I usually avoid rangers because they are jerks. They either spam their push skill or use it deliberately to push your target away. In another thread, I mentioned an instance where one rescued an opponent in WvW doing this. When on my ele, I have to be careful to not drop the flame greatsword near a ranger. On several occasions, I’ve seen a one pick it up and drop it immediately so no one else can use it. No other profession does this. Sadly, there have been few occasions where a good ranger has helped to improve their profession’s reputation. I’ve noticed that they rarely rez, but it seems fewer people do that as well now.

colesy.8490:

And any decent ranger will be using berserker no matter what weapon they have equipped.

Direct damage > condition damage.

Again, the ranger boils down entirely to how competent the player is. Any player which camps their bow and doesn’t bother melee is basically forever condemned to being bad on their ranger.

I wouldn’t go QUITE that far. The problem with condition damage isn’t so much the damage itself, but that there are “caps” to it that are shared among the group. In the group I normally run with for dungeon content, they really don’t focus on condition damage all that much, and leaves me with plenty of space to do my thing.

Now, in any other group setting… yeah, you’re right.

Condition damage HAS it’s place, in the right group and situation.

Condition damage has its place in PvP or WvW roaming.

PvE, it’s a waste of time because of bosses with between 500k and 1.5 million HP which direct damage can melt through but condi-damage won’t. Also, vulnerability doesn’t increase condition damage.

If you think I’m going too far, look at basically every strong dungeon build for any class – the base is berserker gear with scholar runes and then sigil of X slaying and night/force.

colesy.8490:

Like I said, I use a spider and not a bear. SB is far better because I can get in range of group buffs. The only reason to pull out a LB is to build quick stacks or solo like most rangers seem to do, or use the LB to grief other players. There are far better classes that deal the sword, and that I don’t need to keep reviving.

So you’re actually choosing to be a bad player by saying other classes can deal with sword. Why don’t you just learn it and actually be useful to your party?

Uh-huh riiiiiiight. Here is the part where Coley busts out a 2H and SMITES down the risen priest of grenth. hahahahaha uh-huh hehehe

colesy.8490:

Condition damage has its place in PvP or WvW roaming.

PvE, it’s a waste of time because of bosses with between 500k and 1.5 million HP which direct damage can melt through but condi-damage won’t. Also, vulnerability doesn’t increase condition damage.

If you think I’m going too far, look at basically every strong dungeon build for any class – the base is berserker gear with scholar runes and then sigil of X slaying and night/force.

Well, as I mentioned to someone else on the other side of the ledger earlier, I find speed runs to be a TERRIBLE gauge of a class’s effectiveness. They rely on perfect compositions with perfect run-throughs honed over months of practice and muscle memory. It’s a sophisticated form of min-maxing, really.

For us more (dare I say) “casual” rangers (like me), a bit of toughness that synergizes well with condition damage is handy. That it lends itself to a condition build that is effective enough to get through any content available works for me just fine.

I am personally willing to sacrifice some damage for survivability… even if that means the “cool kids” don’t want anything to do with me.

chemiclord.3978:

Well, as I mentioned to someone else on the other side of the ledger earlier, I find speed runs to be a TERRIBLE gauge of a class’s effectiveness. They rely on perfect compositions with perfect run-throughs honed over months of practice and muscle memory. It’s a sophisticated form of min-maxing, really.

And even that has dropped out of favor with recent patches. I have 8-80’s and all of them are fairly balanced… apart form maybe my fire ele that is a bit stronger on the DPS side but have been tweaking him down some to fit what I do with him. But this pretty much opens up a good selection of classes for 99% of available content apart form those cool kid dungeon speed runs… which as I mentioned are not so attractive after the patch. Really, once a ranger has gone down three times in the matter of a minute… I think I can guess his build, and he should probably just use the WP rather than risking others to wipe on his revive.

In fact, just remembered had that happen on a world boss last night. I ran my ranger right past the boss to the other side to revive a fallen ranger, then crossed back to rejoin the groups, returning at about half health and poison still ticking. Looked back to see the guy downed again. What can you do, ya know?

Uh-huh riiiiiiight. Here is the part where Coley busts out a 2H and SMITES down the risen priest of grenth. hahahahaha uh-huh hehehe

Or maybe you could stop being a drain on people you play with and actually learn your class. It’s people like you who give rangers the terrible stigma they have.

Well, as I mentioned to someone else on the other side of the ledger earlier, I find speed runs to be a TERRIBLE gauge of a class’s effectiveness. They rely on perfect compositions with perfect run-throughs honed over months of practice and muscle memory. It’s a sophisticated form of min-maxing, really.

Except they’re actually a perfect gauge of a class’ effectiveness because you’re only taking the most effective classes, since they contribute the most.

For us more (dare I say) “casual” rangers (like me), a bit of toughness that synergizes well with condition damage is handy. That it lends itself to a condition build that is effective enough to get through any content available works for me just fine.

No, actually using your dodge key, paying attention and not trying to brain afk fights with shortbow spam is “handy”. It honestly stuns me that players can spike up their damage probably double if not triple what they’re currently doing if they’d actually gear properly and pay attention in fights. No, don’t just dodge randomly, actually look at the enemy’s attacks. Ice elemental in dredge fractal is about to stomp the ground with its foot? Stand behind it and melee. Raising its hand to smash the ground with AOE agony? Dodge. Well would you look at that, the player has just paid attention to clear choreographed attacks, hasn’t needed to use any “tanky” gear as a crutch and is maximising their DPS in addition to whatever group utility they’re bringing.

I am personally willing to sacrifice some damage for survivability… even if that means the “cool kids” don’t want anything to do with me.

And I’m willing to sacrifice my sanity on this forum to teach people that you don’t even need tanky gear, you just need to actually not shut off your brain in fights and use your dodge key, but instead I get “I play how I want”.

And even that has dropped out of favor with recent patches. I have 8-80’s and all of them are fairly balanced… apart form maybe my fire ele that is a bit stronger on the DPS side but have been tweaking him down some to fit what I do with him. But this pretty much opens up a good selection of classes for 99% of available content apart form those cool kid dungeon speed runs… which as I mentioned are not so attractive after the patch. Really, once a ranger has gone down three times in the matter of a minute… I think I can guess his build, and he should probably just use the WP rather than risking others to wipe on his revive.

Except “cool kid” speed runners use basically every class besides necros (well this doesn’t include bads who think they’re good, I’m on about semi-competent to actually good speed runners). When we’re feeling lazy, we do the 3 war 1 guard 1 mes since it’s good DPS but safe. But it’s very easy to integrate elementalists with conjured weapons, engineers, rangers or thieves in to dungeon groups and they will actually output more DPS than warriors which is why it’s better to only bring one for banners, whereas stacking lightning hammer elementalists is brutal.

In fact, just remembered had that happen on a world boss last night. I ran my ranger right past the boss to the other side to revive a fallen ranger, then crossed back to rejoin the groups, returning at about half health and poison still ticking. Looked back to see the guy downed again. What can you do, ya know?

That’s called them not using common sense and dodging, not “they died, therefore melee is bad”.

Rangers are a good class. Others are better.

Now that I answered your question, only one way to figure out if you’re going to like the ranger. Play one to 80 and try doing some stuff with it. Play around with the various weapon combos, as they do have a nice amount to work with. Pick out some pets you want to try.

That said, expect to always get a lot of crap heaped on you for playing a ranger, especially if it’s not in line with what people think they should be doing. It’s been that way in every game ever where rangers were a class.

I find my ranger a lot of fun, and usually pretty underestimated. On the other hand? It’ll never be the most awesome thing since toast.

colesy.8490:

Uh-huh riiiiiiight. Here is the part where Coley busts out a 2H and SMITES down the risen priest of grenth. hahahahaha uh-huh hehehe

Or maybe you could stop being a drain on people you play with and actually learn your class. It’s people like you who give rangers the terrible stigma they have.

uh-huh, that’s what the downed ranger said at the foot of grenth’s risen priest I guess. At least the GS looks pirrty there with the corpse.

Terrible stigma from players like me? You don’t know jack. You even claimed I used a bear when I had already mentioned in a previous post I stick to spiders and for a specific reason. It’s not overly conversational when you only read your own posts, bro.

The only use a ranger has at the minute is the spirit ranger build in PvP but that will probably get nerfed soon with the amount of QQ.
Rangers might deal good damage with a sword but other classes can deal much more damage.
Forget WvW with a ranger unless you want to easily solo camps because it is practically useless in large scale fights.