Guild Wars 2

In order to show my point I’ve screened LFG tool with World events and fractal department

1. Is 1 gold that much for 15 20 30 minutes run ?

2. How about tokens getting skins now is barely possible …..OH charge me 40 euro more !!!! to be able to buy skins from cash shop …. Yes HOT I’m looking at ya ….

3.Why not add same daily system for dungeons and return to old 1 gold per path reward?

4. This will force people into doing dungeons exploring them especially if the will be daily for example doing arch with extra 1 gold reward extra 50 or 100 tokens and chance to get skin box …

Leave you constructive POV (Point of view) down bellow …

I personally think Dungeons reward should be increased so that community will get involved in it, this will also diversify content ……because doing Fractal all day is incredible dumb and boring also will be great to see similar daily for dungeons as we have for fractals now ..

Dungeons are dead. Deal with it. :/

Etien.4601:

Dungeons are dead. Deal with it. :/

No my dear Arena should deal with it they messed it up !!! are you happy with it? I doubt that …also during the dumb boredom of fractal started to to talk about this in map chat same point of view I received from numerous players …

Did I buy HOT so that DUNGEONS THAT where part of game for so many years to simply become void space in game ? I doubt that man ….

Anet wanted to decrease the amount of liquid gold flowing into the economy, and wanted to shift player focus to aspects that they plan on expanding in the future. I’m certainly not happy about it, but it is what it is.

Tristan.5678:

Etien.4601:

Dungeons are dead. Deal with it. :/

Did I buy HOT so that DUNGEONS THAT where part of game for so many years to simply become void space in game ? I doubt that man ….

Yes they are dead, anet killed them, ITS OFFICIAL, for real! get over it.
“Dungeon Rewards
[…]As the game progressed, we shifted focus from dungeons to fractals and raids, and we firmly believe that fractals and raids are the content that we want to continue to support. "

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-economy/

Tristan.5678:

1. Is 1 gold that much for 15 20 30 minutes run ?

This would be OK but the runs doesn‘t take that much time.

Before the nerf I had many rather casual daily Ascalon full (P1-3) with 1-2 guildies and 2-3 randoms. That took us about 30 min. So 3×1,55g=4,65g for 30 min which was quite nice.

Good teams can do that in much less time.
http://gw2dungeons.net/Records

I’d actually be for adding a daily for dungeons. There’s been a large influx of new players with HoT and F2P who have found it hard to set foot inside a dungeon since the changes came in seeing kitten few people do them now. It’d also be a small something for those who used to run them who no longer do so. Or people can sell dungeon runs on the day they’re a daily and make some cash that way. If activities get a daily slot, I don’t see why dungeons should be excluded from the same sort of rotation. Replace the ‘daily fractal’ with daily dungeon – daily fractals have their own category so it seems a bit superfluous to me.

Actually dungeons provide a decent income even these days. The liquid gold at the end of the dungeon is less (but still generous for several of the dungeon paths that you can easily finish in less than 15 minutes), but the dungeon-specific loot has actually gone up a lot on the trading post. Just the other day, I joined some guildies for AC and noticed that the masterwork quality back item that drops in there frequently has gone up from barely above vendor price to around 40 silver since I was in there last.

Just open up an lfg post yourself if you want to run a dungeon. They don’t really take much longer to fill these days than they did before the expansion, and the amount of coin you gather between the end reward and the drops is still in a very good place.

Actually dungeons provide a decent income even these days. The liquid gold at the end of the dungeon is less (but still generous for several of the dungeon paths that you can easily finish in less than 15 minutes), but the dungeon-specific loot has actually gone up a lot on the trading post. Just the other day, I joined some guildies for AC and noticed that the masterwork quality back item that drops in there frequently has gone up from barely above vendor price to around 40 silver since I was in there last.

Just open up an lfg post yourself if you want to run a dungeon. They don’t really take much longer to fill these days than they did before the expansion, and the amount of coin you gather between the end reward and the drops is still in a very good place.

If the ones we have get any good loot people will just speed farm them again and RIP economy.

If they want to save them we need a HC version of them with new unique skins.

I think what Arenanet should do is:

introduce new rewards that can only be bought at the dungeon merchants for tokens

stuff like:
Endless Slaying Potions (1500 tokens?)
Endless Tonics (1500 tokens?)
Dungeon specific back item skins (1200 tokens?)
etc.

Dungeons are dead. They’ve been slowly dying for a long time,

I’m okay with the focus on fractals and raids, but I hate to see all that wasted content, so I’d like them converted to open world accessible event chains and for the story dungeons to be converted to personal story missions like Arah.

Rewards were problematic because its liquid gold and ruins the econemy.

Dungeon Rewards got nerfed more than they should have been. It’s fun doing Dungeons and teaching people but i don’t always have time for that, and currently it is extremely hard to find a group and almost impossible to find an experienced group.

The only way is to flow with the balance patches, currently the best dungeon is just do your fractal dailies, 21, 27 , 40 in 20 minutes..etc..etc

/__________\

kitten Shame Dungeons are Dead

Tristan did you look at your reward from dungeon post HoT? I mean other than just look at the patch note that nerfed the gold reward??

Because I did and we get more reward than before HoT. How is that possible you ask?

1) Power Creep. We have such more powerful profession, dps and offensive support now that we are exploding dungeon like we never did before. Making them faster.

2) But more importantly, dungeon drop low tier material that you can sell for super high price these day. Because precursor crafting need to much ascended material, the price of tier 2 to 5 went up.

So far I only calculated the gold/hours for TA and CM (since they give the most expensive low tier material). And it’s around 15-20 golds/hour compare to the 5-12 golds/hour pre-hot.

The reason why people don’t do dungeon anymore is because how badly Anet implemented the nerf to dungeons’ gold. People are upset and have an expansion to pass time so they just say screw up dungeons, they are dead anyway. I also think that dungeon that we used to play a lot for gold like CoE, CoF and Arah just drop higher tier of material in the range of tier 5-6, the they don’t really saw an increase the total reward since those two tier didn’t really improve in value with HoT.

Fine I got it they wanted to cut off gold coming from dungeons …but how about :

1. NEW PLAYERS? FIRST Veterans will never be willing to run with them also there is barely any one in dungeon queue wonder dear devs. what new players think when they see empty dungeons …..

2. You reduced gold income and popularity of dungeons by 95 …… nerf then price for dungeon armor too by 75 will be fair enough ….. and make them unsalvageable if you are afraid ppl will make gold on it …..

I miss a lot Dungeon in PvE. They said that they had plan for moving players from dungeon to raid but raid arent a casual gamer content, like dungeon..

If gold from dungeons is really an issue, they could at least increase the token rewards…

Deio.4182:

I miss a lot Dungeon in PvE. They said that they had plan for moving players from dungeon to raid but raid arent a casual gamer content, like dungeon..

So true

Latorn.4209:

If gold from dungeons is really an issue, they could at least increase the token rewards…

LOL good solution to a problem is always a simple, one that no one can see …totally agree !!
but now they are killed for community in order to get people back they will need to add something new and stimulating and daily would work great I think
Increase Token and daily like fractal hmm cool

I loved Dungeons…. Dungeons were nerfed hard however with the introduction of Heart of Thorns to a point where people prefer doing personal PvP-arena farms over doing actual dungeons.

I have found I seem to be playing at the wrong time for most HoT content (which is mostly “been there, done that” after the 3 months it’s live now) and I find myself longing for dungeons to a point where I run some and then just log out due to the uselessness of playing for no reward.

In the end the nerf reduced my actual playing from a dungeon run and a fractal run (2-3 hours/day) to a fractal adept/main run lasting 30 minutes and a run for dailies lasting about an hour., only logging in to chat with some guildies and losing interest more and more each day.

As I view it: In all it’s wisdom ArenaNet’s balancing dept. seems to think doing:

• Fractals: 2-10-x (15-20min total) ,
• Fractals 21-x-40(15-20 min total) and
• (Fractals 50+ well 20-50 minutes)
  for 10-20 LIQUID Gold Return for 30min-1 hour , so for me ~15 gold in 30-60 minutes (limited by keys and encryptions) (doing swamp, swamp,( swamp, swamp, swamp,) molten boss, molten boss and 2 random= BORING)

is so much less problematic, then people doing

• AC ful(35-40min)
• Cof 1+2 (15-20 ) ( p3: 15 min)
• SE 1+3 (15-20),
• TA (up+fw) (20-25min) and
• CoE Full (30-40 min)
  for formerly 16 gold 61s, now nerfed to 6 gold 6 silver per 2-2,5 hours, (thus doing most different (night) dungeon paths in 5 different dungeons around tyria capped by demishing rewards on rerun) paying ~3 gold/hour, which is lower then World bosses, Event(-chains/maps), and even mat farming runs effctively making the trip into dungeons as rewarding as farming junk items….

and thus most GOLD farmers go SilverWastes farming
Netting 12-40 gold/hour depending on efficiency and experience running the same events over and over again, and opening stuff on dedicated charaters for maximum gains, playing only silverwastes, and ignoring any farmcodes due to refreshing maps and map travelling via LFG thus skipping around servers avoiding farm code, draining from HOT event maps, making personal resets occur within seconds, labyrinths are skipped, only focussing on champions and crests go buy shovels so after a week you can run a couple of Silverwastes ChestFarm (SW CF) runs for a spike in income.

We have people in our guild pulling over 150 gold each day from silverwastes, buying legendaries from the TP every 3 weeks…. I know this requires some serious no-lifing, but it invalidates all other parts of the game. they do not care for HoT events, for dungeons, PvP, WvW, not for events, or celebrations. They just have their character(s) in silverwastes, farming, farming, farming.

I think if you can see this the dungeoneers and dungeonmasters were not that bad. it used to be a community. A vibrant part of Guild Wars.
———-
Showing A-Net has no valid point whatever in reducing rewards for dungeons other than the fact they gave -GOLD- instead of mats and item containers…., and thus:

A possible solution to respark a little interest in dungeons:

1st: A daily dungeon option as an ADDED option to dailies
2nd: Introducing a container with 1 piece of dungeon armor, 1 dungeon weapon and some relevant crafting materials would have been a way better change it and maintaining a viable environment for doing dungeons, without flooding the game with LIQUID REWARDS, e.g. GOLD!

Suggestion: (reward/path)
Always, anytime, no more deminishing returns
25s + 20 dungeon tokens for path (any)
Daily, once a day/path
AC: 1 exotic AC Armorpiece+1 Exotic AC Weapon, 75s + 20 dungeon tokens
, some t2/t3 20pcs (REFINED cloth/leather/wood/metal/dust),
CM: 1 exotic CM Armorpiece+1 Exotic CM Weapon, 50s + 20 dungeon tokens
, some t2/t3 20pcs (REFINED cloth/leather/wood/metal/dust)
TA: 1 exotic TA Armorpiece+1 Exotic TA Weapon, 50s + 20 dungeon tokens
, some t3/t4 20pcs (REFINED cloth/leather/wood/metal/dust)
SE: 1 exotic SE Armorpiece+1 Exotic SE Weapon , 50s + 20 dungeon tokens
, some t3/t4 20pcs (REFINED cloth/leather/wood/metal/dust)
COF: 1 exotic COF Armorpiece+1 Exotic COF Weapon , 50s + 20 dungeon tokens
, some t4/t5 20pcs (REFINED cloth/leather/wood/metal/dust)
COE: 1 exotic COE Armorpiece+1 Exotic COE Weapon, 50s + 20 dungeon tokens
, some t4/t5 20pcs from (REFINED cloth/leather/wood/metal/dust)
HOTW 1 exotic HOTW Armorpiece+1 Exotic HOTW Weapon , 50s + 20 dungeon tokens
, some t5/t6 20pcs from (REFINED cloth/leather/wood/metal/dust)
ARAH: 1 exotic ARAH Armorpiece+1 Exotic ARAH Weapon, 75s-1,5g + 20 dng. tokens
, some t6 20pcs from (REFINED cloth/leather/wood/metal/dust)

I hope A-Net can think about something like this, and refresh interest fora large area of the game now abandoned. It would fill a gap for those not interested in RAID elitism with some emotional bonds to dungeons.

TL;DR:
Writer misses running dungeon, finds A-Net should have introduced containers (with a dungeon armor,a dungeon weapon and some (level relevant) mats instead of just nerfing gold, this could allow for dungeon track completion and might respark interest for said dungeons…

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

• AC ful(35-40min)
• Cof 1+2 (15-20 ) ( p3: 15 min)
• SE 1+3 (15-20),
• TA (up+fw) (20-25min) and
• CoE Full (30-40 min)
  for formerly 16 gold 61s, now nerfed to 6 gold 6 silver per 2-2,5 hours, (thus doing most different (night) dungeon paths in 5 different dungeons around tyria capped by demishing rewards on rerun) paying ~3 gold/hour, which is lower then World bosses, Event(-chains/maps), and even mat farming runs effctively making the trip into dungeons as rewarding as farming junk items….

The problem here is that you only count direct gold. If you count token (which can be transform into gold) and all the drops (low tier material exploded in price with HoT).

Dungeon like TA and CM can actually give you around 10-20 gold per hour depending on the path and your speed.

Dungeons need some love. I know ANET wants to move the focus to other content, but some players still love dungeons.

If not liquid gold, then they should at least raise the amount of badges they give us, so we can convert them to ectos and other materials like Linen.

Well I have salvaged dungeon armor (and weapons), mostly for insignia’s and inscriptions and to lesser extend for runes, runes are account bound, so ned to be farmed or gained by flushing…
Ecto’s were an interesting byproduct.

Actual drops from dungeon runs have 2 big problems: 1 when doing runs on a lvl 80 you get lvl 75-80 drops which are relatively valueless, an occasional rare , and a rare exotic (generally I got 1or 2 exotics per dungeon / week counting all paths ran so about 10% chance for an exotic drop and I guess 50-75 for a rare a day… yes you got 10 wool scraps from daily AC and some dust, but it is mostly underwhelming.

i don’t care for gold at all. i’d rather have a huge amount of tokens instead.
anet killed dungeons so people don’t cry for support and are forced to play the new “shiny” content if they want to make gold at all.
however, if they want dungeons to die asap they need to increase the token gain extremely (like 5 fold or more) and make the items unsalvagable so people finish their collections and can move on.
when 95% of the playerbase has done their collection they can continue with deleting dungeons altogether or turning them into fractals.
that will never happen tho since that’d be unprofitable. better use that time for 30 gemshop glider skins or something.
as it is now any player wanting the collections is better off with pvp reward tracks.

there will never be any support for dungeons again. deal with it.

Dungeons were killed for two reasons:

- too much liquid gold (for speedrunners that is)
- no actual dungeon development team anymore

The first one is kind of meh since Fractals (after the buff) actually give decent liquid gold for the little time they require, especially the high level ones. So that’s a weird argument, moreso since doing all Fractal dailies is taking less time than running the profitable dungeons back then (which, by the way, didn’t so much give liquid gold as they gave drops).

Dungeons may still be a decent way to make gold if you got a speedrunning group that knows its way around it. But for new players / pugs it’s even worse now, because many experience players completely stopped doing dungeons to gain gold in other and easier ways. So the decent way to make gold actually becomes worse the longer a group needs and the less experienced it is.

The second point is what I believe the only real problem and the reason why dungeons won’t come back. For years the dungeons were pretty much neglected, full of bugs, skips and exploits nobody bothered fixing (like doing all AC paths at once or skipping huge chunks of Arah). The last real updates I can think of are breaking/“fixing” Lupicus in Arah a few times as a result of other things in the game and copypasting the AC troll into HotW P1 (he even dropped AC tokens the first few weeks).

I think at some point it was also said they moved/merged their dungeon team into the LS team (and later the expansion, I’d presume).

It’s also much easier to design a single Fractal or two than making a new Dungeon.

Etien.4601:

Dungeons are dead. Deal with it. :/

Variety brings in business in a game like this.

To destroy a mode of play is to invite ruin.

It’s like a bakery (Guild Wars2) providing basic bread (main game), perfect chocolate chip cookies cookies (dungeons), croissants (fractals) who says we will no longer sell our perfect sweet cookies anymore and change ’m to crackers, we will however sell dark bread (raids) and double the size of our croissants….

The baker will see the original cookie lovers leave and find a new bakery, even though they might have the feeling they have a more healthy assortment now….. and the baker will wonder where did I go wrong, while he could just have changed the perfect chocolate chip cookies to okay chocolat covered digestives cookies instead of stale dry crackers instead. (I choose dark bread for raids cause it’s just not everyones taste)

/weird comparison.

jbrother.1340:

Etien.4601:

Dungeons are dead. Deal with it. :/

Variety brings in business in a game like this.

To destroy a mode of play is to invite ruin.

Variety can often destroy business too. It’s the old argument between specializing and varying your wares.

Specialist businesses make money by finding a core crowd and catering to that crowd. Generalizing makes money by bringing in more people.

The problem with generalizing is that often the more you do, the less good each thing is. It can’t be all things to all people.

Trying to focus on too much often means splitting your resources too thin. My guess is Anet didn’t deem they had enough resources to fix the issues dungeons had. It was easier to deincentivize them.

problem might have been the fact dungeons could be “sped-up” but this was simply a result of giving ppl dungeon food + 10%, dungeon sigils + 10%, night or force sigils and builds building on syergizing buffs (with Zerk PS EA GS War/Zerker as summit, providing 1000+ power, 900+ condition dmg, (2)6+ % precision, +6 % Critical dmg…. and ALL AOE in 1 single player package ….)

This combined with perfect skips, using thieves or mesmers, and Full DPS support builds (perma blinds, perma weakness, perma protection and quickness, and max vulnerability…..) created an environment where dungeon paths could be ran with 33% max of incoming dmg when you failed a dodge and ~150% more dmg outgoing the anticipated.

(stacked dmg + 25% dmg from warrior buffs,+25% from vulnerability, 50% more critical hits, +33% from foods and sigils, and of course and inate knowledge mostly regarding paths, safe spots, mechanics and so on.)

This set of remarks doesn’t even adress exploits and dungeon bugging. cause there have been so many ways of being safe, being outside mechanics/ spawns of alt spawns or just dmg removal…. which have been reported, and sometimes fixed, but sometimes blatantly ignored.

Still a reinstatement of some reards would be welcomed, as it was a big part of the community whcih really enjoyed dungeons. Some of the ppl shifted to fractals, and continue the same methods there.

Chronomancers, PS EA warriors, facetank guardians, AOE Nuking Ele’s, vampiric necro’s will continue to smile at bosses with so much health, it’s no longer a healthpool but just a statistic and kill him for just more statistics.

R?
R!
321 go!
Stack!
DEEPS!
GG
TYVM
BB

Yeah I kinda wish I had done all the dungeon paths in the last 3 years, never going to get them done now, well I might, but it’s going to take a lot of time.

As Captain Smeck said, “That’s a lot of year’s Tony!”

I’d love to see a change back towards how it used to be. However, Anet doesn’t want to encourage people to play dungeons anymore (they said so directly). So, I wouldn’t expect any buff to dungeons, in any way, shape, or form.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Yeah I kinda wish I had done all the dungeon paths in the last 3 years, never going to get them done now, well I might, but it’s going to take a lot of time.

As Captain Smeck said, “That’s a lot of year’s Tony!”

I don’t see why not. People in my guild still run dungeons.

Vayne.8563:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Yeah I kinda wish I had done all the dungeon paths in the last 3 years, never going to get them done now, well I might, but it’s going to take a lot of time.

As Captain Smeck said, “That’s a lot of year’s Tony!”

I don’t see why not. People in my guild still run dungeons.

Yeah but, it’s far quicker to do the dungeon track in PvP than it is to run the paths, sad but true. The only real reason I would want to do them is for the story, as AP is not a driving force for me.

Actually I disagree with bringing the 1 gold reward back.
They wanted to cut out the liquid rewards and it’s fine.
People simply need a better incentive to run dungeons again.

This could happen with the following master plan:

1. A-Net revokes their statement about dungeons.

- Dungeons were great
- can close the gap between normal PvE and Raids
- harder than current Fractals
- teach alot of different class & mob mechanics

2. “Rewards & Reason” Changes.

How you ask?
- remove all gold/silver rewards
- unify dungeons tokens (1 currency for all of them)
- reward skins in endchests of the specific dungeon (see example below)
- bring unique sellable skins per dungeon (like EotN, see below)
- add gimicky things like tonics, minis of endbosses (models exist – not much work)
- introduce dailies for specific paths (maybe even gold rewards!)
- introduce a lvl 90-100 mobs hardmode (see GW1) (double chance on unique skins)
- remove timegates from dungeons (theoretical gold reward from daily achievement is still in place)

3. Active Support

- faster and better exploit fixes (applies for fractals too)
- quick bug resolving/ working npc events

**Theoretical Example:
(Drops from Dungeon Endchests)

Baseline:
2 Rare Dungeon Items (Runes, Sigills, Yellow Gear, …)
10 Tokens
+
30% – 20 Empyrial Fragments
30% – 2 additional Rare Dungeon Items
10% – Dungeon Armor Box ( or 100 Tokens from Vendor)
10% – Dungeon Weapon Box (or 100 Tokens)
4% – Dungeon Boss Minipet (or 500 Tokens)
4% – Dungeon Boss Tonic (or 500 Tokens)
1% – Unique Dungeon Weapon (New Special Weapons – see GW1, 1 per Dungeon)
1% – Big Surprise

• The 1% Items can NOT be bought at the Dungeon Vendor( the guy in LA gets an Update for the other items & new cleaner sorting)
• Boxes behave like the ones from PvP or asc. ones from fractals)

Advantages for A-Net:

- lots of sympathie points
- short developing time (systems already exist, same applies for models)
- Only unique weapons have to be made from scratch
- (keeping this short)

Why did I leave “hardcore” ideas out?

While things like leaderboards or “replay mode” would be good additions dungeons have to remain “casual”.
For exotics things there are still sites like gw2dungeons.net and others.

I also excluded Masteries because they are rather pointless for “longtime content”.
Their sole purpose would be to cut out rewards for non-HoT players, add an easily completed EXP wall, or introduce new mechanics.
So the only positive thing (new mechanics) would require alot of redesigning and coding.

Feel free to add new ideas to this. I’ll try to keep this up-to-date and repost it whenever it makes sense to shine some attention on Dungeons.

Edit1:

Possible Problems & Solutions

- Fastest Path Farming (ways of least resistance) & Endchest hopping/selling

• internal endchest cooldown of ~10-30 minutes

Yes another “soft” timegate; but one you will never notice if you just farm different paths throughout the days.

Aetherpath

- rebalance “normal mode” to Level 55

High amount of design work needed for unique weapons

- could be outsourced to the community in contests (see GW1 again!)

There were alot of awesome designs made!

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Design-a-Weapon_

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Design-a-Weapon_

Safespots & Skip-Exploits

- Instead of the huge amount of effort that has been made in fixing these kinds of things via terrain changes apply ONE fix to the AI & Event scripts.
Not even “wasted” resources since said fixed could be applied everywhere.

The Hammer of Kathandrax is with us —-

Latorn.4209:

If gold from dungeons is really an issue, they could at least increase the token rewards…

Unfortunately, it was not. What really was an issue is that Anet didn’t want to be bothered fixing bugs in dungeons (which was a bit hard for them to do, seeing as the whole original dungeon team was disbanded long ago, and there was noone really knowledgeable about their code anymore). Now they don’t need to fix anything, so all is fine. For them, anyway.

Astralporing.1957:

Latorn.4209:

If gold from dungeons is really an issue, they could at least increase the token rewards…

Unfortunately, it was not. What really was an issue is that Anet didn’t want to be bothered fixing bugs in dungeons (which was a bit hard for them to do, seeing as the whole original dungeon team was disbanded long ago, and there was noone really knowledgeable about their code anymore). Now they don’t need to fix anything, so all is fine. For them, anyway.

Which is just a simple lazy mode solution like most reuse of content and unbalanced fixes and balances seem to be nowadays.

/2 cents

Tristan.5678:

In order to show my point I’ve screened LFG tool with World events and fractal department

1. Is 1 gold that much for 15 20 30 minutes run ?

2. How about tokens getting skins now is barely possible …..OH charge me 40 euro more !!!! to be able to buy skins from cash shop …. Yes HOT I’m looking at ya ….

3.Why not add same daily system for dungeons and return to old 1 gold per path reward?

4. This will force people into doing dungeons exploring them especially if the will be daily for example doing arch with extra 1 gold reward extra 50 or 100 tokens and chance to get skin box …

Leave you constructive POV (Point of view) down bellow …

I personally think Dungeons reward should be increased so that community will get involved in it, this will also diversify content ……because doing Fractal all day is incredible dumb and boring also will be great to see similar daily for dungeons as we have for fractals now ..

If I was selling a MMO game and I would see an empty LFG in it, I would freak out completely. This is really not a good sign for a MMO when nobody is playing the instanced content.