Guild Wars 2

Kal Spiro.9745:

So after three years I can’t complain when they’re trying to incentivise new players, especially when there business model is based around people buying boxes and never having to pay anything again. They need a revenue stream, not the Gem Store..

Exactly.

Everyone benefits from new people buying the game.

More revenue generally means more development.
More players generally means less time waiting for a group, etc.

Guys $50 is the price of the expansion only those who pre-purchase get the the core game from free. Those who pre-order aren’t paying for the the core gw2 game.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged
New players getting the core game for free is a good thing for the game overall. Wouldn’t it be great for this game to get new players and grow?
WoodenPotatoes Review of the HoT per-purchase sums up things well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtMGS3ezLI

Now if there is something to discuss if would be $50 price tag, though it is a bit high its kinda standard price for a lot of expansions. How much do most of us spend fast food, alcohol and other for of entertainment?

vincecontix.1264:

Guys $50 is the price of the expansion only those who pre-purchase get the the core game from free. Those who pre-order aren’t paying for the the core gw2 game.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged
New players getting the core game for free is a good thing for the game overall. Wouldn’t it be great for this game to get new players and grow?
WoodenPotatoes Review of the HoT per-purchase sums up things well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtMGS3ezLI

Now if there is something to discuss if would be $50 price tag, though it is a bit high its kinda standard price for a lot of expansions. How much do most of us spend fast food, alcohol and other for of entertainment?

“The issue is that new players spend 50$ and get vanilla and HoT. Existing players spend 50$ and get HoT. There is a clear difference in what the money gets different people. "

Quoting myself as it was a reply to your copy/pasted comment in another thread. The price is not the important issue.

Palindrome.8904:

vincecontix.1264:

Guys $50 is the price of the expansion only those who pre-purchase get the the core game from free. Those who pre-order aren’t paying for the the core gw2 game.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged
New players getting the core game for free is a good thing for the game overall. Wouldn’t it be great for this game to get new players and grow?
WoodenPotatoes Review of the HoT per-purchase sums up things well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtMGS3ezLI

Now if there is something to discuss if would be $50 price tag, though it is a bit high its kinda standard price for a lot of expansions. How much do most of us spend fast food, alcohol and other for of entertainment?

“The issue is that new players spend 50$ and get vanilla and HoT. Existing players spend 50$ and get HoT. There is a clear difference in what the money gets different people. "

Quoting myself as it was a reply to your copy/pasted comment in another thread. The price is not the important issue.

If thats what you are on about then there is no issue. If someone else gets a better deal good for them. New players coming to the game is great for the community.

The real issue to discuss is the $50 dollar price tag, I think an extra character slot would make most people happy.

vincecontix.1264:

Palindrome.8904:

vincecontix.1264:

Guys $50 is the price of the expansion only those who pre-purchase get the the core game from free. Those who pre-order aren’t paying for the the core gw2 game.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged
New players getting the core game for free is a good thing for the game overall. Wouldn’t it be great for this game to get new players and grow?
WoodenPotatoes Review of the HoT per-purchase sums up things well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtMGS3ezLI

Now if there is something to discuss if would be $50 price tag, though it is a bit high its kinda standard price for a lot of expansions. How much do most of us spend fast food, alcohol and other for of entertainment?

“The issue is that new players spend 50$ and get vanilla and HoT. Existing players spend 50$ and get HoT. There is a clear difference in what the money gets different people. "

Quoting myself as it was a reply to your copy/pasted comment in another thread. The price is not the important issue.

If thats what you are on about then there is no issue. If someone else gets a better deal good for them. New players coming to the game is great for the community.

The real issue to discuss is the $50 dollar price tag, I think an extra character slot would make most people happy.

Again, the price is not an issue. It’s not about a better deal. A sale is a better deal. This is about two people paying the same amount of money and getting to vastly different things that are marketed as equal.

Palindrome.8904:

vincecontix.1264:

Palindrome.8904:

vincecontix.1264:

Guys $50 is the price of the expansion only those who pre-purchase get the the core game from free. Those who pre-order aren’t paying for the the core gw2 game.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged
New players getting the core game for free is a good thing for the game overall. Wouldn’t it be great for this game to get new players and grow?
WoodenPotatoes Review of the HoT per-purchase sums up things well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtMGS3ezLI

Now if there is something to discuss if would be $50 price tag, though it is a bit high its kinda standard price for a lot of expansions. How much do most of us spend fast food, alcohol and other for of entertainment?

“The issue is that new players spend 50$ and get vanilla and HoT. Existing players spend 50$ and get HoT. There is a clear difference in what the money gets different people. "

Quoting myself as it was a reply to your copy/pasted comment in another thread. The price is not the important issue.

If thats what you are on about then there is no issue. If someone else gets a better deal good for them. New players coming to the game is great for the community.

The real issue to discuss is the $50 dollar price tag, I think an extra character slot would make most people happy.

Again, the price is not an issue. It’s not about a better deal. A sale is a better deal. This is about two people paying the same amount of money and getting to vastly different things that are marketed as equal.

The only difference between what those two people get is that a veteran gets more than a new player.

At one point I paid $10 for a character slot. At a later point another player paid $10 for the game which came with five character slots. We paid the same amount of money but I got fewer character slots. Unfair ?

Ashen.2907:

Palindrome.8904:

vincecontix.1264:

Palindrome.8904:

vincecontix.1264:

Guys $50 is the price of the expansion only those who pre-purchase get the the core game from free. Those who pre-order aren’t paying for the the core gw2 game.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged
New players getting the core game for free is a good thing for the game overall. Wouldn’t it be great for this game to get new players and grow?
WoodenPotatoes Review of the HoT per-purchase sums up things well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtMGS3ezLI

Now if there is something to discuss if would be $50 price tag, though it is a bit high its kinda standard price for a lot of expansions. How much do most of us spend fast food, alcohol and other for of entertainment?

“The issue is that new players spend 50$ and get vanilla and HoT. Existing players spend 50$ and get HoT. There is a clear difference in what the money gets different people. "

Quoting myself as it was a reply to your copy/pasted comment in another thread. The price is not the important issue.

If thats what you are on about then there is no issue. If someone else gets a better deal good for them. New players coming to the game is great for the community.

The real issue to discuss is the $50 dollar price tag, I think an extra character slot would make most people happy.

Again, the price is not an issue. It’s not about a better deal. A sale is a better deal. This is about two people paying the same amount of money and getting to vastly different things that are marketed as equal.

The only difference between what those two people get is that a veteran gets more than a new player.

At one point I paid $10 for a character slot. At a later point another player paid $10 for the game which came with five character slots. We paid the same amount of money but I got fewer character slots. Unfair ?

..what? You bought an extra character slot for the price of a character slot and a new player buys the game but does not buy a character slot and… what?

You:
Game (5) + Gem store (1) = 6

Other player:
Game(5) = 5

I have no idea what your post is saying or how it is relevant.

Palindrome.8904:

Ashen.2907:

Palindrome.8904:

vincecontix.1264:

Palindrome.8904:

vincecontix.1264:

Guys $50 is the price of the expansion only those who pre-purchase get the the core game from free. Those who pre-order aren’t paying for the the core gw2 game.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/HoT-Price-Feedback-Base-game-included-merged
New players getting the core game for free is a good thing for the game overall. Wouldn’t it be great for this game to get new players and grow?
WoodenPotatoes Review of the HoT per-purchase sums up things well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUtMGS3ezLI

Now if there is something to discuss if would be $50 price tag, though it is a bit high its kinda standard price for a lot of expansions. How much do most of us spend fast food, alcohol and other for of entertainment?

“The issue is that new players spend 50$ and get vanilla and HoT. Existing players spend 50$ and get HoT. There is a clear difference in what the money gets different people. "

Quoting myself as it was a reply to your copy/pasted comment in another thread. The price is not the important issue.

If thats what you are on about then there is no issue. If someone else gets a better deal good for them. New players coming to the game is great for the community.

The real issue to discuss is the $50 dollar price tag, I think an extra character slot would make most people happy.

Again, the price is not an issue. It’s not about a better deal. A sale is a better deal. This is about two people paying the same amount of money and getting to vastly different things that are marketed as equal.

The only difference between what those two people get is that a veteran gets more than a new player.

At one point I paid $10 for a character slot. At a later point another player paid $10 for the game which came with five character slots. We paid the same amount of money but I got fewer character slots. Unfair ?

..what? You bought an extra character slot for the price of a character slot and a new player buys the game but does not buy a character slot and… what?

You:
Game (5) + Gem store (1) = 6

Other player:
Game(5) = 5

I have no idea what your post is saying or how it is relevant.

I spent the same amount of money as the other guy but got 1/5th as much for that expenditure. Fair ? $10 = $10.

scerevisiae.1972:

Spaceman.4027:

Bought the game on release. Don’t mind the $50 price tag. Would like it if veteran accounts got a bonus character slot with xpack.

Yep, this would be the fair thing to do.

As to whether there’s enough content to justify $50 is another thing, IMO it’s a pretty kitten lightweight expac for $50… 1 new class and 1 new zone for $50? Doesn’t seem like good value to me.

And in all honesty, something like this would’ve preventive the fiasco in the first place (other than PR not wording correctly either).

People use the business model of attracting new people with giving away free stuff. Guess what can happen? What if that free stuff still doesn’t make them a constant customer? You just threw away money. That’s a loss. Not to mention, if you don’t have a program in to reward constant customer’s, you just ticked them off too, in which case there goes MORE money. This is why places have store cards or something to get them points towards “free” stuff. People will then stop there and shop more because the items they want are there, and shopping there can get them discounts. Working in a pharmacy grocery store, I can’t tell you how many times I laughed when a promotion for “bring a new script, get a $25 gift card” came about. We see that person once for the card, then never again. Loss money.

Heck, I get it. Once so many xpacs come out, its too expensive. That’s when its up to the company to bundle it together in one package for a set price. Get to four expansions? Bundle the first three for $30 total. Or $25, or whatever. I’m not against Anet making money. I’m just not liking how its treating its community.

This is what blows my mind is that they DID THIS ALREADY. Why not do it again for people who played from launch? What am I talking about? About the Hall of Monuments stuff! That is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of rewarding veteran players!

“Hey, you stuck with us during our first game, played it, did achieves, etc. Here’s some free stuff when you buy GW2”. New players didn’t throw a fit over that did they (at least i don’t remember any)? A GW1 vets loved it! Not to mention, guess what happened with some of the new players? “Oh, i get cool stuff for playing gw1? I’ll check it out!” Boom. Sales. Not alot, but still sales.

I mean, my god. Now thinking about this, you would probably see NO complaints if something like that was extended into gw2. “A new section of the hall of monuments has opened up for those who purchased the Original game, allowing more free stuff for completing certain achievements”. Sure, the new players may not get all the acheives necessary because of missed content, but they got a free game. Vets get free cosmetic gear, pets, etc for their time.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Harper.4173:

Kal Spiro.9745:

It’s a prepurchase bonus. When the game is released it will just be the expansion. Pre-purchase isn’t about being fair. It’s about giving bonuses. If you don’t like it then wait until the game is released and everything will be “fair” again.

The problem is this. I’ve been with this game for 3 years. I’ve spent thousands ( over 3k) hours in it. I’ve spent hundreds of dollars on the gem store. I love the game.

I feel pretty bad when I see Anet’s recent focus has been almost exclusively oriented towards new players. New players get this, new players get that. Old players? Not a lot.

I don’t mind that HoT comes with a free copy of the core game if you’re a new player. It’s a viable and useful strategy to sell more.
I mind that new players once again take the center stage while veterans that have been with this game through thick and thin, through content drought and bad balance issues are left staring at the sun.
Why couldn’t they have added some nice bonus for veteran players? Maybe give the character slot for free. Maybe give us a unique skin, armor piece, title, trinket or shout. Anything.

I’m upset because for a long time veterans have been getting nothing, no recognition for their love and support for the game.

I was part of early access. I only get annoyed when new players get things I can’t personally acquire. Special bonuses that I have no access to at all bug me. As far as I can tell, though, that’s not actually a thing.

So after three years I can’t complain when they’re trying to incentivise new players, especially when there business model is based around people buying boxes and never having to pay anything again. They need a revenue stream, not the Gem Store.

After 3 years I have three years of the game. Living World that won’t ever return, like the Karka invasion. The Mad King’s invasion. The original flight of Tixx to all the cities. The events from Season 1 that may or may not ever become playable. Even if they are ever broken down into some kind of instanced bite sized mode, they’ll never be as cool as the Marionette in all her glory, or a full scale Scarlet invasion. There were a lot of invasions in three years, and new players, incentivised or not, will never share those experiences.

Protip: the “revenue stream” they need flows more from the gem store than it does from boxed copy sales.
Players that buy the game and leave are not where you want to be. You want players that buy the game and stay and keep buying. Veteran players ARE that market. We bought the game, we’re buying the expansion. We’re buying gems and items in between. That’s where their money comes from.

The fact that the core game doesn’t get them that much cash can be seen in the discounts that went as low as 10$ – their entire strategy is to have a lot of players playing so that a good portion of them will use the gem store. That’s fair.

The problem is in order to build up large numbers you can’t just keep selling forever to new players – you also need people to stay – player retention – and for that you’ve got to make them happy.

I as a veteran feel in a sense that Anet has done very little for me and doesn’t really care about the veteran player demographic – which is upsetting.

When the NPE was launched veterans weren’t a concern.
When FOTM was reset veterans weren’t a concern.

I’m wondering – will long time veteran players of this franchise ever be a concern?

Also – the one time events and festivities aren’t really a thing – the “new players” could easily have bought the game back when we veterans did.
Equal opportunity. The fact that they chose not to is entirely their choice and the consequences that follow are what they are.

They had a choice. Sadly veterans don’t have one since we can’t choose for Anet to care more about us.

Fortunately I’ve noticed enough fundamental UNFAIRNESS woven into every aspect of civilization that a discrepancy of $10 is just NOT EVEN REMOTELY enough bother me. The new kids get a $10 perk. Meh, whatever.

Harper.4173:

Protip: the “revenue stream” they need flows more from the gem store than it does from boxed copy sales.
Players that buy the game and leave are not where you want to be. You want players that buy the game and stay and keep buying. Veteran players ARE that market. We bought the game, we’re buying the expansion. We’re buying gems and items in between. That’s where their money comes from.

The fact that the core game doesn’t get them that much cash can be seen in the discounts that went as low as 10$ – their entire strategy is to have a lot of players playing so that a good portion of them will use the gem store. That’s fair.

The problem is in order to build up large numbers you can’t just keep selling forever to new players – you also need people to stay – player retention – and for that you’ve got to make them happy.

I as a veteran feel in a sense that Anet has done very little for me and doesn’t really care about the veteran player demographic – which is upsetting.

When the NPE was launched veterans weren’t a concern.
When FOTM was reset veterans weren’t a concern.

I’m wondering – will long time veteran players of this franchise ever be a concern?

Also – the one time events and festivities aren’t really a thing – the “new players” could easily have bought the game back when we veterans did.
Equal opportunity. The fact that they chose not to is entirely their choice and the consequences that follow are what they are.

They had a choice. Sadly veterans don’t have one since we can’t choose for Anet to care more about us.

Protip – In the first four months of GW2’s existence it had income of $150 million. In the next 27 months it had a total income of $210 million. That’s the difference between primarily box sales Vs primarily gem sales. That’s why they are putting out another full price box release, that spike of income to keep development wheels turning for the “next” game, whether it’s GW3 or the next box expansion.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Well darwinism says we are most likely very closely related to apes and monkeys and the humans here have been acting a bit like the monkeys in this test […]

Biology. And the main theory in biology is the theory of evolution of the species ( read up what a theory is and what a hypothesis is, kitten in advance) There is no Darwinism. Unless you are a brainless biblebelter… ;-)

By the way: we ARE apes. and monkeys.
Jut one special species.

I personally think HoT is way overpriced. i just will wait for the price to drop because i do not want to get scammed. I am not whining, i am not complaining.
I think it unfairly priced and though won’t buy at this price.
Like the Black Lion Merchant.

Arena Net can make prices, that we cannot change.
We can say yes and buy or say and buy not, and arena net cannot change this.

I am ok playing the basic game.
I have not invested into game development of the addon.
i need not sell it for profit.

Have a nice day
And the experiment shows that even in species less bright regarding their cortical properties know the basics of fairness.

Edit: typos

i do understand that it is fair due to new and old players alike get access to beta hot etc..

the core game is just a bonus for new players..

buti think anet should really give some other sort of bonus to old players as well
the character slot seems to be a nice idea
or give us like 800gems (to not have the case that a few players already are at character slot cap get another slot)
just give us anything if new players get so much for free

i dont know if im going to preorder hot or wait like 6months until ill get it for 20cents….

with the little informations we currently have about gw2 hot exclusive content this seems like a nice idea to me

In my opinion it is unfair. A simple apology, with marketing and development reasoning, could solve this in my opinion. But as long as I see not apology, I can’t feel as a valued customer.

To OP: great video; it illustrates exactly the problem in question, as some customers get cucumber and some customers get grapes, with no apologies.

evoRobot.4019:

This deal is fair. The Expansion costs 50 dollars (simple as that, exclusive offer or not it would cost 50$). The core is an exclusive offer to new players so they are all set up without confusion.

Exclusive offers are perfectly normal under specific conditions.

The real problem is that people are jealous their don’t qualify for the core game.

Its like when you go to the bank. If you’re an existing customer great… but for our new customers we have a contest when you sign up you get a tablet for free. TD Bank does this all the time. But I guess people feel empowered over the internet to take charge and disrespect the game and developers without realizing these are people with families and careers, dedicating all their time to this project.

What they did in terms of the bundle is a common practice. An exclusive offer, strategy used to bring new customers. This matter needs to be viewed in a business standpoint. The real world outside your 4 little walls.

Your weekly flyers have sales: From specific dates. if you buy the item before or after those dates you maybe out of luck.. and for those 3 years early… you got the game 3 years early. It’s so simple to understand.

And that’s why my bank is one that offers the same deals to all there customers, regardless of when you became one.

people are annoyed about different things, some are annoyed that they do not qualify for the “free” copy even thought they are paying the same price, others feel that given that one of the core selling points of HoT is a new class, a slot to play that class should be included regardless. Some think ANet have not given enough information as to what we are paying for to warrant the price, an I can see peoples points on all 3.

Personally I feel is you are going to offer something “free” then it should be “free” for all, but it’s not a deal breaker for me.

I agree with the fact one of HoT selling points is the new class, and to enjoy all of what you are paying for you should be able to play said class with out having to pay more, or sacrifice your time/money/effort by deleting a character you might have had for awhile. For me this is a non issue as I have a spare slot, with a character that I was just using to keep a name I like.

Lastly the issue that affects me the most. So far I do not see content Vs price. I don’t order things on faith anymore. last time I pre-ordered a game with out seeing game play it turned out to be a one of the biggest disappointment’s I’d ever paid for, if you are wondering it was Aliens: Colonial Marines. Though I did enjoy it, it was nothing like Gear Box had said it would be. Now I’m not saying ANet will do the same thing. BUt if it turns out that I’m getting the same amount of Content as the Core game, then I’ll buy the Xpac right then and there. But until I’m satisfied that the Xpac is worth the price I’ll hold on to my money. I’m not fussed on the title, the only one’s I use are the ones I got from playing GW1 anyway.

evoRobot.4019:

It’s an exclusive offer and a common practice in business.

The bank has periods of time where you can open a certain account for free, like a waterhouse account, or high savings account. Someone might have opened one a few years ago and missed that offer, but still has the same services as the person who will receive it for free today.

Between those years the person who missed the offer got to build their credit, receive interest and save their money. But the new person must start from the ground up.

This is the exact same situation here.

So tell me where the difference is.

I’m surprised people cannot understand the difference, to be honest. But, allow me to use an analogy that might put it as best as I can think of in an attempt to make it clearer for some people.

Imagine you go to a fast food restaurant. You buy a meal that is going for 10 dollars that comes with fries and a burger. The next day you go into the same fast food restaurant and you notice that they’re having a special on that same meal. This time instead of just fries and a burger, you also get a soda as well.

The person next to you is also looking at the same deal, but they are a first time customer. You don’t begrudge them that they’re getting the soda extra for the same price, because the same deal is available to you now as well, so it’s all fair right?

But then when you go to order your meal, the clerk tells you that you won’t get the fries and the burger with your meal, because you’re already an existing customer and you got fries and a burger yesterday. You have to pay the same price as the person next to you just for the soda. You argue that the new client gets all three for the same price, but then the clerk says “but that’s because they’re new and have yet to eat our fries or our burgers.” When you argue the price discrepancy between your soda vs their fries, burger and soda, the clerk says “Well, actually they’re getting the fries and the burger free. 10 dollars is just for the Soda.”

You see, that’s the issue here. If two people are paying for the same thing at the same time, and they are purchasing it from the same producer, they expect to get the same result. If I buy a meal with only a burger and fries one day and the next day I see someone buy it on special, I don’t mind. But if I’m also buying it on special, I would mind if I got less than the person next to me paying for the same thing, just because I was a repeat customer.

So players are saying this. If new players are getting a game and an expansion for one price, why aren’t existing players getting the same deal? Why do we only get the expansion? Should we not be benefiting from the same special as everyone else, if we are paying for it on the same day, at the same time? Why not give us an extra free account code? Or, if you’re not going to give us that, why not give us the option to buy the soda without the fries and the burger at a lower price, especially if you refuse to give us the fries and burger again just because we ordered it yesterday?

If people cannot understand this issue, then I’m honestly not sure what else to say.

Behellagh.1468:

Harper.4173:

Protip: the “revenue stream” they need flows more from the gem store than it does from boxed copy sales.
Players that buy the game and leave are not where you want to be. You want players that buy the game and stay and keep buying. Veteran players ARE that market. We bought the game, we’re buying the expansion. We’re buying gems and items in between. That’s where their money comes from.

The fact that the core game doesn’t get them that much cash can be seen in the discounts that went as low as 10$ – their entire strategy is to have a lot of players playing so that a good portion of them will use the gem store. That’s fair.

The problem is in order to build up large numbers you can’t just keep selling forever to new players – you also need people to stay – player retention – and for that you’ve got to make them happy.

I as a veteran feel in a sense that Anet has done very little for me and doesn’t really care about the veteran player demographic – which is upsetting.

When the NPE was launched veterans weren’t a concern.
When FOTM was reset veterans weren’t a concern.

I’m wondering – will long time veteran players of this franchise ever be a concern?

Also – the one time events and festivities aren’t really a thing – the “new players” could easily have bought the game back when we veterans did.
Equal opportunity. The fact that they chose not to is entirely their choice and the consequences that follow are what they are.

They had a choice. Sadly veterans don’t have one since we can’t choose for Anet to care more about us.

Protip – In the first four months of GW2’s existence it had income of $150 million. In the next 27 months it had a total income of $210 million. That’s the difference between primarily box sales Vs primarily gem sales. That’s why they are putting out another full price box release, that spike of income to keep development wheels turning for the “next” game, whether it’s GW3 or the next box expansion.

The problem here is that a new game is aimed primarily at a very broad audience. An expansion aims mostly at existing players.
Another thing i would like to point out is that no matter how high your box sales are you can’t really expect them to carry you throughout the entire period between expansions. Without a stable source of income the game would be labeled a financial failure by the publisher and wouldn’t be in such a great spot.

I’m really curious what the numbers will look like but I’m pretty sure the majority of HoT buyers will be players that already have the core game.

New players are relevant to any MMO but do not constitute the core demographic of any MMO. You can’t build a successful game ( or franchise) on new players alone.
You need people in the game to stay in the game, keep the game’s economy going, keep the materials in stock, keep teaching and building communities. That’s what veteran players do. They keep the game going – otherwise the game dies off.

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

I’m surprised people cannot understand the difference, to be honest. But, allow me to use an analogy that might put it as best as I can think of in an attempt to make it clearer for some people.

Imagine you go to a fast food restaurant.

Software is different from food. With food, you buy the product. With software, you buy access and a right to use the product. Why? Because it’s a business. Comparing software with food might actually the worst analogy I can imagine, so think of buying a new desk. The desk you want to buy is the same you currently have, but with an extra draw. You can’t go and demand they give you the desk at the price of the draw because you already bought the same desk from them before they released a new one with an additional draw.

Software is the same. You pay for the elements that were present in the previous version too.
"But those core elements are the same I already bought! It’s not like wood, it’s digital!"
Yes, but it’s not the same you bought is it? Just like it’s new wood, it is new software. It is as fair as buying a new desk. The company maintains and updates the software from the time of release until some years after the next version is released, and if those updates where applied to the version you bought instead of only to the new version, and you choose not to buy the next version, it’s the company that gets the worse-end of the deal because then they DID give you software and services for free. Their maintenance is necessary due to the nature of the product - it may have defects/bugs/faults - so you did pay for this. You did not, however, pay for any improvement and quality of life updates. What these updates are, really, are features that they are working on as part of their next big release, and some companies offer to apply them to current and sometimes previous versions in part or in full, and it is an investment in you as a customer - to provide an appreciated service so you’ll return and buy their new product when it is released, and in doing so, pay them for their work. It is a risk vs. reward scheme, because they risk not getting paid by you for their work and the produce they distributed to you. If a company does this, and you don’t buy the new version then you got them for free. If you do buy the new version, you are not being ripped off - you are paying for what they gave you.

This is not new. When any company releases a new version of software - be it Adobe, Microsoft, or Apple - to get the new version you have to pay for it entirely - which is always more than the previous version cost even factoring in inflation. It contains most of the code from the previous version, and the version before that, and before that. Algorithms might have been modified here and there for improved efficiency or in response to other changes, but you’re not paying for "just the new parts," you’re paying for the old as well, which is at the core of the software, because they have changed and grown since then. To you, as a user, they may appear the same, but under the bonnet they are improved. Guild Wars 2 is no different. It is a piece of software, and as it is now, it is far from the software you got when you bought it.

So yes, you can argue for paying the difference for an upgrade, and some companies do offer "upgrades" for a discount price, although it is close to the full price, thus really just a "loyalty discount." However, when you buy software, it’s not like buying a burger. You don’t "own" the product, you have only bought access to and a right to use it until the owners - the company that developed it - discontinue it or change the terms. This is done so that the company can be justified in charging for updates they have applied between the release and the release of a new version - so they can get paid for their work. The wood is new. Getting paid for your work is what is fair.

If GW2 was a subscription game like WOW, then they would be getting paid for the work in the form of those monthly subscriptions, resulting in expansions being cheaper because they contain less "new and unpaid for" content. Of course, then ANet would be ripping players off because they don’t provide as much new content or frequent enough balance patches; so they don’t charge a subscription, because they are a good and fair company. Although, if they did charge a subscription they might have the income from GW2 to invest in more content and balance updates, but the existence of a subscription might make players feel the need to rush through content to get their money’s worth, which might promote "grindful" play, which ANet is not about.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Old experiment with capucin monkeys, both get the same task, they have to return a stone. When both get a cucumber nothing is wrong, BUT wwhen 1 gets a grape and the other gets a cucumber all hell breaks loose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg

If you have 2 ppl do they same they expecty the same reward, This goes for a huge amount of species on this planet.

PPL have bought seocnd vanilla accounts before , to give away or to farm laurels and pay for their legendaries/ armors and so on.

When you give half the people the basic version and HoT they are happy
When you give veterans only HoT they feel like they get the cucumber.

SO give all ppl who buy this an added serial for the vanilla account. Problem solved.

You commerce ppl made this happen, you deal with it.

And some people grow up, mature, realize that life is not always 110% always and absolutely uniform (or “fair”, but that is highly subjective and people take it to mean whatever the heck they want) and stop throwing the same tantrums that children do.

Look at the situation from the perspective of a gamer looking to pick up Guild Wars 2. Would you be willing to buy kitten game that’s major selling point is new content if you knew you would immediately have to spend another $50 for the expansion to access that new content? ArenaNet can’t realistically sell vanilla GW2 once they start selling GW2:HoT, and nobody is going to pay the $50 for GW2 and the $50 for HoT for one game.

Likewise, the 2nd account for existing players is also a nonstarter, because that adds another account that can’t access the new content, and ArenaNet’s assumption is that that account will eventually have to upgrade to HoT, and if you’re annoyed at having to pay $50 now, you’re going to be kittened to pay $50 later to upgrade your second account to HoT.

That’s not to say ArenaNet handled this well; they are in a situation where there was no option that would make everyone happy. Still, they should have had something concrete (not a title or skin) to offer the veteran players, perhaps a free character slot or gems.

thehipone.6812:

And some people grow up, mature, realize that life is not always 110% always and absolutely uniform (or “fair”, but that is highly subjective) and stop throwing the same tantrums that children do.

If that makes you feel better about yourself and your investments, then by all means go ahead continue basing your life on that philosophy of yours, but please do not try to belittle others by calling them manchildren just because they’re fighting against something that they perceive as wrong. Immediately resorting to ad hominem only puts question over your own maturity.

As for my own opinion, I haven’t been bought by what I have seen to this moment. The content that they have displayed hasn’t had enough appeal to me to warrant a 50 dollar expense. Need more reveals.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

thehipone.6812:

And some people grow up, mature, realize that life is not always 110% always and absolutely uniform (or “fair”, but that is highly subjective) and stop throwing the same tantrums that children do.

Immediately resorting to ad hominem only puts question over your own maturity.

Ah, the old “I know you are but what am I” defense. Well played.

I’m also not the first to note the striking parallels that I referenced. http://www.killtenrats.com/2015/06/17/gw2-parenting-and-the-heart-of-thorns-pre-purchase/
Sure, it may not have been precisely the right marketing move, but the rage and salt both here and in game has been appallingly bad.

Impact.2780:

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

I’m surprised people cannot understand the difference, to be honest. But, allow me to use an analogy that might put it as best as I can think of in an attempt to make it clearer for some people.

Imagine you go to a fast food restaurant.

Software is different from food. With food, you buy the product. With software, you buy access and a right to use the product. Why? Because it’s a business. Comparing software with food might actually the worst analogy I can imagine, so think of buying a new desk. The desk you want to buy is the same you currently have, but with an extra draw. You can’t go and demand they give you the desk at the price of the draw because you already bought the same desk from them before they released a new one with an additional draw…. continued…

I’m very well that software is different from food, thank you. I was simply using an analogy to try help people understand the situation as seen from the consumer’s point of view.

However, that still doesn’t change the fact that new clients are getting more for what they pay than existing clients, so in that respect my analogy is correct. I could use 100 different analogies to point to the same result, but I simply used one I felt people would understand best. You can go on about ownership rights and all that jazz if you want, but ultimately, one fact remains. We are essentially the client/consumer and ANet/NCSOFT is the service provider. Keep us happy and we continue to pay for your services. Make us feel like we’re being screwed over, even if it’s well within your right to do so, and you’ll run the risk that we’ll stop using your product.

thehipone.6812:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

thehipone.6812:

And some people grow up, mature, realize that life is not always 110% always and absolutely uniform (or “fair”, but that is highly subjective) and stop throwing the same tantrums that children do.

Immediately resorting to ad hominem only puts question over your own maturity.

Ah, the old “I know you are but what am I” defense. Well played.

I’m also not the first to note the striking parallels that I referenced. http://www.killtenrats.com/2015/06/17/gw2-parenting-and-the-heart-of-thorns-pre-purchase/
Sure, it may not have been precisely the right marketing move, but the rage and salt both here and in game has been appallingly bad.

Well, I don’t really care about new players getting things. I’m just trying to say that everybody should be able to express their opinion, without being targets of personal attacks. While trying to change their perception of things by showing them your own might help them see things from a different angle, targeting them personally will only make them angry and a lot less likely to listen to you, or anyone that shares your point of view, helping no one and heating things further..

I like when people resort to name calling and personal attacks.
It means I’ve won the argument.

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

evoRobot.4019:

It’s an exclusive offer and a common practice in business.

The bank has periods of time where you can open a certain account for free, like a waterhouse account, or high savings account. Someone might have opened one a few years ago and missed that offer, but still has the same services as the person who will receive it for free today.

Between those years the person who missed the offer got to build their credit, receive interest and save their money. But the new person must start from the ground up.

This is the exact same situation here.

So tell me where the difference is.

If two people are paying for the same thing at the same time, and they are purchasing it from the same producer, they expect to get the same result.

Actually both players are getting the same result here. Both get the ability to create an account that includes the core game and HoT.

Technically a veteran gets something not available to a first time buyer, the option to link to an existing account instead.

So if you are in fact being offered the same result as the first tme buyer, even a bit more, what is your real complaint?

Ashen.2907:

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

evoRobot.4019:

It’s an exclusive offer and a common practice in business.

The bank has periods of time where you can open a certain account for free, like a waterhouse account, or high savings account. Someone might have opened one a few years ago and missed that offer, but still has the same services as the person who will receive it for free today.

Between those years the person who missed the offer got to build their credit, receive interest and save their money. But the new person must start from the ground up.

This is the exact same situation here.

So tell me where the difference is.

If two people are paying for the same thing at the same time, and they are purchasing it from the same producer, they expect to get the same result.

Actually both players are getting the same result here. Both get the ability to create an account that includes the core game and HoT.

Technically a veteran gets something not available to a first time buyer, the option to link to an existing account instead.

So if you are in fact being offered the same result as the first tme buyer, even a bit more, what is your real complaint?

People actually “think” like this?

MMOGamer.6175:

Ashen.2907:

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

evoRobot.4019:

It’s an exclusive offer and a common practice in business.

The bank has periods of time where you can open a certain account for free, like a waterhouse account, or high savings account. Someone might have opened one a few years ago and missed that offer, but still has the same services as the person who will receive it for free today.

Between those years the person who missed the offer got to build their credit, receive interest and save their money. But the new person must start from the ground up.

This is the exact same situation here.

So tell me where the difference is.

If two people are paying for the same thing at the same time, and they are purchasing it from the same producer, they expect to get the same result.

Actually both players are getting the same result here. Both get the ability to create an account that includes the core game and HoT.

Technically a veteran gets something not available to a first time buyer, the option to link to an existing account instead.

So if you are in fact being offered the same result as the first tme buyer, even a bit more, what is your real complaint?

People actually “think” like this?

It is accurate.

I am not claiming that not linking accounts would be desirable for a veteran, but if he is going to argue the comparison between what first time buyers get and what veterans get then the facts dont support him.

If one claims that he doesnt feel that the value of HoT is in line with his expectations or desires then I would say kudos for being a discriminating consumer. If he is going to argue facts he should probably be factual.

Ashen.2907:

MMOGamer.6175:

Ashen.2907:

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

evoRobot.4019:

It’s an exclusive offer and a common practice in business.

The bank has periods of time where you can open a certain account for free, like a waterhouse account, or high savings account. Someone might have opened one a few years ago and missed that offer, but still has the same services as the person who will receive it for free today.

Between those years the person who missed the offer got to build their credit, receive interest and save their money. But the new person must start from the ground up.

This is the exact same situation here.

So tell me where the difference is.

If two people are paying for the same thing at the same time, and they are purchasing it from the same producer, they expect to get the same result.

Actually both players are getting the same result here. Both get the ability to create an account that includes the core game and HoT.

Technically a veteran gets something not available to a first time buyer, the option to link to an existing account instead.

So if you are in fact being offered the same result as the first tme buyer, even a bit more, what is your real complaint?

People actually “think” like this?

It is accurate.

I am not claiming that not linking accounts would be desirable for a veteran, but if he is going to argue the comparison between what first time buyers get and what veterans get then the facts dont support him.

If one claims that he doesnt feel that the value of HoT is in line with his expectations or desires then I would say kudos for being a discriminating consumer. If he is going to argue facts he should probably be factual.

No it’s not, the “old” player loses one copy of GW2 base game with zero compensation under the disguise of FREE and having no value. The GW2 base game has so little value it is actually being marketed to “new” players as a value in the HoT expansion.

[quote=5173396;Ashen.2907:]

Jornophelanthas.1475:

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP’s argument.

The anger voiced by many is not inspired by greed, but by moral outrage. This is illustrated by:

- Strong emotional reaction – morality is very much based in emotion.
(Greed is more calculating, and any outrage inspired by greed is merely staged.)

- Various accusations aimed at ArenaNet that paint them as immoral or evil – very moral terms.
(Greedy players would rather paint ArenaNet as cheap or selfish – very economical terms.)

- None of the angry players says anything negative about the new players who would receive a better deal.
(If they were greedy, they would be more envious of the new players.)

- Angry players demand an apology and rectification from ArenaNet.
(Greedy players would just settle for more stuff and not bother with apologies.)

My impression is that the sales managers at ArenaNet have vastly underestimated the perception of inequality that their pricing scheme evoked. ArenaNet needs to address this adequately, or their long-term reputation may suffer.

---

Oh, and the counterargument claiming that “veteran players are greedy because they don’t realize what they got over the past three years” is sadly mistaken. The thing is that all these players have already paid for that by purchasing the game in the first place.

Finally, why does the occasional price reduction in the base game not bother existing players as much as this deal? Because it is very typical of any product to decrease in value over time. A used car is less valuable than a new one. A three-year-old game is worth less than the upcoming next-big-thing-with-super-graphics.

Don’t bother trying explaining to them. i tried I got tired.
i will vote with my wallet.
No more gems purchase for me & I will wait the absolute lower price for HoT (if I ever feel like relaunching GW2 which I’m not even sure).

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Ashen.2907:

Actually both players are getting the same result here. Both get the ability to create an account that includes the core game and HoT.

Technically a veteran gets something not available to a first time buyer, the option to link to an existing account instead.

So if you are in fact being offered the same result as the first tme buyer, even a bit more, what is your real complaint?

You’re technically in the wrong there, though.

Mind you, I couldn’t care less about new players and their perks, but I do care about fallacious logic.

An older player must’ve paid anywhere between $10-$60 for their account, and will need to pay an additional charge $-50 to upgrade it to GW2: HoT, so, that’s a $60-$110 expense to keep up with the changes, whereas a new player will only need $~50 for both, the standalone account and the upgrade. It would be equivalent if the older player could acquire an extra GW2 key to gift a friend or to use themselves, but that’s not the case.

Now, according to ANET, that standalone GW2 account for newcomers is just a bonus, but combined with the whole FAQ scandal, it really affects their credibility

That said, I’d like to reiterate that I don’t support either side, but that I understand from where the rage is coming from.

For the $50 price tag of HoT everyone gets an account with both core content and expansion content included. Players with existing accounts are allowed, but not required, to forgo the newly purchased account, if they so choose, in order to link to the existing account.

The price someone paid for an existing account as much as (close to) three years ago is irrelevant to what is provided in the HoT bundle. The bundle provides exactly the same for everyone, for the same $50, with the previously mentioned exception that a veteran has an option not available to a first time buyer.

I think it is worth noting that a new account does not include something inherent to the mentioned veteran account: three years of play, past content, and accumulated rewards.

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

I’m very well that software is different from food, thank you. I was simply using an analogy to try help people understand the situation as seen from the consumer’s point of view.

However, that still doesn’t change the fact that new clients are getting more for what they pay than existing clients, so in that respect my analogy is correct. I could use 100 different analogies to point to the same result, but I simply used one I felt people would understand best. You can go on about ownership rights and all that jazz if you want, but ultimately, one fact remains. We are essentially the client/consumer and ANet/NCSOFT is the service provider. Keep us happy and we continue to pay for your services. Make us feel like we’re being screwed over, even if it’s well within your right to do so, and you’ll run the risk that we’ll stop using your product.

Good job completely navigating around the actual point that directly counters what you say. Just pick out the bits around it and use your same argument without actually addressing the counter.

The updates were an investment scheme. They intend to be paid for it – the developers certainly get paid for it by the company – the risk is that they might not if current players choose not to buy the new version, and that a lot of players will perceive it as not merely free, but that they are entitled to it, and not consider that when it is included in a new release. The game you bought is different from the one being packaged with HoT; the functionality is the same, but the code that makes it work has undergone significant changes, and not all to fix bugs, but to improve the architecture, efficiency, present-ability, changeability, and extendability. Again, this is not new; all software companies do it.

The ownership jargon just enables this so that they can be paid their due. I should have known better to mention it, as it is a common tactic to single out and dismiss one small aspect of an argument in an attempt to undermine it and make yours seem stronger, when the reality is you got rekt.

But you don’t need to be able to think in those terms to see that nothing is wrong here. You can even look at it in simpler terms, and still find they are being fair. Observe:

Despite being referred to as a “buy to play game” in order to distinguish it from games requiring a subscription, you have in fact payed to play. Furthermore, in this particular case, ANet has been really good to its players, providing free updates, maintenance and customer support instead of requiring a subscription. It hasn’t been money-grabby like companies such as Sony and Blizzard. You can complain the updates are bad and not frequent enough, but they are still free, and produce more maintenance work, and customer support requirements on the developers and support staff.

Just like GW2 was released without requiring a regular fee to play and receive content updates, GW2 HoT is being released as a new version of the game. This means that it includes the product as it was in its last update before the new version, but with some modifications to features – just like mentioned previously regarding any new software product. Only, it is better. Instead of having to pay more for the newer, larger version, you get to pay the same price the previous version was, and those who do not have an account to play what they have purchased will be fairly given one so that they can use what they purchased. You’re still going to be getting free updates, maintenance, and support. Existing players don’t even have to buy the new version if they don’t want to, because unlike other organizations, ANet has said you may continue to play the original game for free without the expansion and continue to receive maintenance and customer support for it, and due to the nature of the product, still receive free content updates affecting the core game. Many other companies would discontinue promised free services the moment they have a reason to.

At the end of the day, potential new players didn’t pay that one-time purchase fee to play for the last 1-3 years like you. Thus, they didn’t get the game for that period, like you, because they did not pay to play it, like you. If the last 1-3 years you played didn’t matter to you, and you regretted it, then tough luck, you made a purchase you didn’t like. Complain if you will, but it really is tough luck. If you don’t regret it, then you got what you paid for, and enjoyed it, so why complain? What it comes down to is you perceive new players getting a better deal than you, and you don’t like it, when really they are just joining the party a version later than you. You see an opportunity to demand free stuff or product for less money, and have jumped on it.

Ashen.2907:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Ashen.2907:

Actually both players are getting the same result here. Both get the ability to create an account that includes the core game and HoT.

Technically a veteran gets something not available to a first time buyer, the option to link to an existing account instead.

So if you are in fact being offered the same result as the first tme buyer, even a bit more, what is your real complaint?

You’re technically in the wrong there, though.

Mind you, I couldn’t care less about new players and their perks, but I do care about fallacious logic.

An older player must’ve paid anywhere between $10-$60 for their account, and will need to pay an additional charge $-50 to upgrade it to GW2: HoT, so, that’s a $60-$110 expense to keep up with the changes, whereas a new player will only need $~50 for both, the standalone account and the upgrade. It would be equivalent if the older player could acquire an extra GW2 key to gift a friend or to use themselves, but that’s not the case.

Now, according to ANET, that standalone GW2 account for newcomers is just a bonus, but combined with the whole FAQ scandal, it really affects their credibility

That said, I’d like to reiterate that I don’t support either side, but that I understand from where the rage is coming from.

For the $50 price tag of HoT everyone gets an account with both core content and expansion content included. Players with existing accounts are allowed, but not required, to forgo the newly purchased account, if they so choose, in order to link to the existing account.

The price someone paid for an existing account as much as (close to) three years ago is irrelevant to what is provided in the HoT bundle. The bundle provides exactly the same for everyone, with the pfeviously mentioned exception that a veteran has an option not available to a first time buyer.

I think it is worth noting that a new account does not include something inherent to the mentioned veteran account: three years of play, past content, and accumulated rewards.

Still not buying your failed backwards thinking in which you simply fail to account for players ALREADY owning the core.

MMOGamer.6175:

Ashen.2907:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Ashen.2907:

Actually both players are getting the same result here. Both get the ability to create an account that includes the core game and HoT.

Technically a veteran gets something not available to a first time buyer, the option to link to an existing account instead.

So if you are in fact being offered the same result as the first tme buyer, even a bit more, what is your real complaint?

You’re technically in the wrong there, though.

Mind you, I couldn’t care less about new players and their perks, but I do care about fallacious logic.

An older player must’ve paid anywhere between $10-$60 for their account, and will need to pay an additional charge $-50 to upgrade it to GW2: HoT, so, that’s a $60-$110 expense to keep up with the changes, whereas a new player will only need $~50 for both, the standalone account and the upgrade. It would be equivalent if the older player could acquire an extra GW2 key to gift a friend or to use themselves, but that’s not the case.

Now, according to ANET, that standalone GW2 account for newcomers is just a bonus, but combined with the whole FAQ scandal, it really affects their credibility

That said, I’d like to reiterate that I don’t support either side, but that I understand from where the rage is coming from.

For the $50 price tag of HoT everyone gets an account with both core content and expansion content included. Players with existing accounts are allowed, but not required, to forgo the newly purchased account, if they so choose, in order to link to the existing account.

The price someone paid for an existing account as much as (close to) three years ago is irrelevant to what is provided in the HoT bundle. The bundle provides exactly the same for everyone, with the pfeviously mentioned exception that a veteran has an option not available to a first time buyer.

I think it is worth noting that a new account does not include something inherent to the mentioned veteran account: three years of play, past content, and accumulated rewards.

Still not buying your failed backwards thinking.

If I were to go to the website and use my credit card to purchase a copy of HoT would I or would I not get an account with both the core game and HoT included?

If a first time buyer goes to the website and purchases a copy of HoT would they or would they not get an account with both the core game and HoT included?

I already own the core. At the end of the transaction I would own a new copy of the core, linked to a new copy of HoT (exactly the same as a first time buyer) and I would also own a second copy of the core.

thehipone.6812:

And some people grow up, mature, realize that life is not always 110% always and absolutely uniform (or “fair”, but that is highly subjective and people take it to mean whatever the heck they want) and stop throwing the same tantrums that children do.

And just like that you end up with unfair business practice. Makes sense.

Ashen.2907:

For the $50 price tag of HoT everyone gets an account with both core content and expansion content included. Players with existing accounts are allowed, but not required, to forgo the newly purchased account, if they so choose, in order to link to the existing account.

Thus veteran players either lose out on the new purchased account or on the existing one, while buying the same (new) product for the same price of another new player, during the same timeframe, from the same place.
Clearly the veteran player should get the exact same things, that is an expansion (that will be likely used on the existing account, but he could still choose to use it on the new one if he wants to do so) and the new core game code.
And unlike now, it would be fair.

The deal makes complete sense. It costs $50 for everyone, and everyone gets a base game. I’ve spent thousands of hours in game and hundreds buying things, but I don’t deserve anything more than anyone else. Anet won’t change the deal after people have already purchased, so take your storage account and your expansion and quit complaining.

I’m still having trouble understanding why offering the core game for free, when the LS and other future events are going to depend on people having HOT, Is a big issue.

I mean.. so? Newbies get the old content so they can prep for the new content. and the core game standalone isn’t available anymore. Feeling slighted is difficult for me to comprehend.

MMOGamer.6175:

Ashen.2907:

Tenrai Senshi.2017:

evoRobot.4019:

It’s an exclusive offer and a common practice in business.

The bank has periods of time where you can open a certain account for free, like a waterhouse account, or high savings account. Someone might have opened one a few years ago and missed that offer, but still has the same services as the person who will receive it for free today.

Between those years the person who missed the offer got to build their credit, receive interest and save their money. But the new person must start from the ground up.

This is the exact same situation here.

So tell me where the difference is.

If two people are paying for the same thing at the same time, and they are purchasing it from the same producer, they expect to get the same result.

Actually both players are getting the same result here. Both get the ability to create an account that includes the core game and HoT.

Technically a veteran gets something not available to a first time buyer, the option to link to an existing account instead.

So if you are in fact being offered the same result as the first tme buyer, even a bit more, what is your real complaint?

People actually “think” like this?

No they just lies to themselve.

Ashen.2907:

I think it is worth noting that a new account does not include something inherent to the mentioned veteran account: three years of play, past content, and accumulated rewards.

That’s inherent to me investing my playing time to get it.
Or are you saying that I also bought my playing time to Anet with money?

Kal Spiro.9745:

It’s a prepurchase bonus. When the game is released it will just be the expansion. Pre-purchase isn’t about being fair. It’s about giving bonuses. If you don’t like it then wait until the game is released and everything will be “fair” again.

a prepurchase bonus which only applies to new player? much market such wow

Ashen.2907:

For the $50 price tag of HoT everyone gets an account with both core content and expansion content included. Players with existing accounts are allowed, but not required, to forgo the newly purchased account, if they so choose, in order to link to the existing account.

The price someone paid for an existing account as much as (close to) three years ago is irrelevant to what is provided in the HoT bundle. The bundle provides exactly the same for everyone, for the same $50, with the previously mentioned exception that a veteran has an option not available to a first time buyer.

I think it is worth noting that a new account does not include something inherent to the mentioned veteran account: three years of play, past content, and accumulated rewards.

I don’t follow. Is there any other MMO that goes by this logic out there? Like, is it common practice to charge money, on top of the actual purchase, to keep your progress? Because, in almost two decades of gaming, I haven’t seen such an example elsewhere.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Ashen.2907:

For the $50 price tag of HoT everyone gets an account with both core content and expansion content included. Players with existing accounts are allowed, but not required, to forgo the newly purchased account, if they so choose, in order to link to the existing account.

The price someone paid for an existing account as much as (close to) three years ago is irrelevant to what is provided in the HoT bundle. The bundle provides exactly the same for everyone, for the same $50, with the previously mentioned exception that a veteran has an option not available to a first time buyer.

I think it is worth noting that a new account does not include something inherent to the mentioned veteran account: three years of play, past content, and accumulated rewards.

I don’t follow. Is there any other MMO that goes by this logic out there? Like, is it common practice to charge money, on top of the actual purchase, to keep your progress? Because, in almost two decades of gaming, I haven’t seen such an example elsewhere.

He’s cornered.
So to answer; He comes with fallacies after fallacies to try to jusify anet behavior.

papry.8096:

Ashen.2907:

I think it is worth noting that a new account does not include something inherent to the mentioned veteran account: three years of play, past content, and accumulated rewards.

That’s inherent to me investing my playing time to get it.
Or are you saying that I also bought my playing time to Anet with money?

You bought access to play the game for that time, and are not forced to buy the new version in order to continue to do so. Just like you don’t have to buy Microsoft Word 2014 to continue using the 2010 version.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

I don’t follow. Is there any other MMO that goes by this logic out there? Like, is it common practice to charge money, on top of the actual purchase, to keep your progress? Because, in almost two decades of gaming, I haven’t seen such an example elsewhere.

Just like GW2 was the first MMO to go B2P. ANet introduced the buy-to-play model with GW2, and since then many other MMOs have been released, and some even changed post-release, adopting the buy-to-play model.

lighter.2708:

Kal Spiro.9745:

It’s a prepurchase bonus. When the game is released it will just be the expansion. Pre-purchase isn’t about being fair. It’s about giving bonuses. If you don’t like it then wait until the game is released and everything will be “fair” again.

a prepurchase bonus which only applies to new player? much market such wow

ISPS do it all the time with their service bundles.

New players don’t get more for the same price. Old player got years of playing this game for it. New players will NEVER have that.

Impact.2780:

papry.8096:

Ashen.2907:

I think it is worth noting that a new account does not include something inherent to the mentioned veteran account: three years of play, past content, and accumulated rewards.

That’s inherent to me investing my playing time to get it.
Or are you saying that I also bought my playing time to Anet with money?

You bought access to play the game for that time, and are not forced to buy the new version in order to continue to do so. Just like you don’t have to buy Microsoft Word 2014 to continue using the 2010 version.

That’s not the point. FALLACY AGAIN.

I paid my account. I played with it for 3 years. I earned what on it.
How the hell does this account in me getting a lesser deal when I buy something as the same time than a new player ?

let’s see how things will be in 1 year from now:
old player paid 160$ = played 4 years of the game.
new player paid 100$ = played 1 year of the game.
sounds fair to me.