Guild Wars 2

First, let me tell you I definitely do NOT want a refund, I’m very happy with the game and intend to play it a long, long time.

But I see more and more people, on various fan sites I won’t name here, “bragging” that they got a refund after hundreds of hours of playing. Lately, there’s a guy who plays since pre-order (beta events) who pretends he got full refund of the game after 3 months playing like 5+ hours a day on average.

If that is true, then I don’t understand your logic. On one side, you charge for stuff in your cash shop to your LOYAL player base, but on the other side, you give money (55+ Euros, 60+ dollars, aka approximatively 4800 gems) back to what I would call “scammers”, dishonest people, who got hundreds of hours of play time out of your game and then ask their money back so they basically got 3 months of free entertainment.

Please enlighten me about this, and tell me if this is true or not. I for sure hope it’s not true and those people are just bragging and looking for attention.

Well, from your past posts you don’t sound like you’re really really happy about the game and that you don’t want a refund. That’s just a cheap attempt to make your post “legit”, just come out and say it.

That aside, yeah that’s exactly how it works. The BWEs count in the 6 month period. If you followed the game and pre-purchased on day one, even though there was no game yet, no refunds for you. But if you’re a scammer that actually played the game and got bored, you get a refund.

I bought on day one and tried for a refund and couldn’t get it. Coulnd’t feel more stupid than I am right now. Pre purchasing this game was my biggest regret as far games and $$ go.

Assumptions will get you nowhere, harbard. I definitely don’t want a refund (why would I? I have 500 hours invested in my characters and I intend to play for years), but if people with 3+ months of gameplay can get some, then I think it’s time to stop that. I bought a digital deluxe and for 80+ Euros of gems, and people can get hundreds of hours out of the game without paying a cent, by being dishonest and asking for a refund after 3 months? Sorry, then I’m worried, and I think my question is a legit one.

The people from ArenaNET can check my account and see that I’m regularly buying gems in the shop.

Note I don’t mind a person who played a week or two and just realizes the game is not for him. But a person who got 1+ months out of it with hundreds of hours played getting a refund is outrageous for those like me who actually pay to keep this game alive and kicking, and if this is true, the intend of my post is to ask for this to STOP.

It’s OK, only the loyal fans of Arena.net and GW1 were really affected. And considering the amount of fun that game offed us, i for one do not regret my pre-purchase in the least, even if I am never going to play this game again because they added vertical progression.

As far as the logic of the refund, here in the EU, you have 6 months after purchase to evaluate a product and see if it meets your needs, if not you can ask for a refund, no questions asked.

Amonde Daneren.2380:

It’s OK, only the loyal fans of Arena.net and GW1 were really affected. And considering the amount of fun that game offed us, i for one do not regret my pre-purchase in the least, even if I am never going to play this game again because they added vertical progression.

As far as the logic of the refund, here in the EU, you have 6 months after purchase to evaluate a product and see if it meets your needs, if not you can ask for a refund, no questions asked.

Wow…no wonder there are less options and companies. You have immeasurably more loopholes for consumers than we do.

Amonde Daneren.2380:

As far as the logic of the refund, here in the EU, you have 6 months after purchase to evaluate a product and see if it meets your needs, if not you can ask for a refund, no questions asked.

This is actually wrong, and I live in the EU too. Otherwise, the video game industry as well as the DVD/Blu-Ray industries would be bankrupt long ago, since everybody would take games/movies home for a couple of weeks and then bring them back for refund.

The real EU law is actually 14 days of refund rights. 2 weeks. That’s already a lot for most video games, but that’s the law. It’s definitely NOT 6 months. Use some basic logic, if that was true, nobody would pay for games anymore.

I don’t understand why you are upset. That was the refund policy.

The game also made major changes that many people were not happy about. Some people were able to get a refund. I don’t know how many people got a refund just because they “got free playing time” out of it. Perhaps, some people are saying they did to justify spending a lot of time into a game that ultimately threw them away.

Honestly, this has been discussed to the ground. Let’s let sleeping dogs lie.

smug.3895:

I don’t understand why you are upset. That was the refund policy.

The game also made major changes that many people were not happy about. Some people were able to get a refund. I don’t know how many people got a refund just because they “got free playing time” out of it. Perhaps, some people are saying they did to justify spending a lot of time into a game that ultimately threw them away.

Honestly, this has been discussed to the ground. Let’s let sleeping dogs lie.

To the opposite, I’d like an official answer about this…

Even the (arguable) “major” changes are no excuse to ignore 3+ months of actually playing the game, aka consuming the media. That money they give back to people who got 100, 200, 300 or more hours out of the game reflects on those of us who keep playing and use the gem shop. So you need 250 gems to change your hairdo, but some guy who played 100, 200, or even 300+ hours over 3 months gets the real money equivalent of 4800 gems back, no question asked? Sorry if I feel there’s something wrong with that logic.

That’s why I’d like an official answer to this. I suspect that those guys just brag, but I want confirmation.

I see this alot also, and really don’t understand it.
I have finished games in a few days time, getting a refund after I have finished them would be stealing for me.
I not only pre-ordered, but I got the collectors edition and spent over $100 additional in the gem store, so thats over $250.00 for me. I am not very happy with the game right now, but I am hoping it will get better. I also “finished” the game by completing my story and killing the dragon, so why would I ever dream of asking for a refund? I have already gotten much more out of this game then I have out of many other games.

Korrigan, if a webdeveloper sells a client a custom webshop software and it changes into a blog in 3 months, client has right for refund and argument “But he had a web-shop for 3 months!” doesn’t hold. I, for one, did not buy this game to play for 3 months.

Also, NCSoft issues refunds up to 6 months after purchase, which means that a lot of people who pre-purchased can’t even get them any more while they played as much as everyone else.

Buy a car, drive the kitten out of it for months, then return it and wanting full refund?

What dream world are you guys living in?

Korrigan.4837:

Assumptions will get you nowhere, harbard. I definitely don’t want a refund.

Wow I totally missed the point of your post. I got it all wrong. I’m very sorry! =/
I’m so used to people pretending they’re not invested in the discussions they are starting that I was too quick to jump into conclusions, especially since most of your recent posts are about money.

I can see why you’re upset at people scamming the refund policy and I agree with you. I’m not so sure how that makes you feel undervalued as a paying customer, though.

Still, while there are certainly some very cheap people scamming the refund, I’m not so sure most of the people would really want to play an mmo for only 6 months if they felt it was really good. If it’s good to them, they know the good stuff would keep coming and they wouldn’t ask for a refund.

Your analogy doesn’t make sense, cherrie. The game was a MMORPG and still is a MMORPG, it’s not a webshop changing into a blog.
And even if the recent changes are a reason for you to stop playing, it’s NOT a reason to get the money back from your previous playing time. You consumed something, you can’t get it back, it’s past, it’s done. Or it’s totally unfair for those who actually pay to support the product.

And thanks shiningsquirrel for understanding what I was saying.

Point is, I have to pay 250 gems just to change my hairdo in the game… why do people who got hundreds of hours of entertainment out of the game get the equivalent 4800+ gems refunded to them with no questions asked, if this is true. Try to justify this as hard as you want, with analogies with web applications or whatever else, you will fail, because there is something wrong with that.

@Harbard: thanks for revisiting your post, no hard feelings here, I know how web forums are Cheers!

This makes my top ten saddest threads list. Who cares if Mr.X got a refund or not? How does that affect your game?

I have multiple friends who have gotten refunds, sadly I pre-purchased and was unable to.

I guess it’s kind of a grey area. You have played it for a while, but it’s an mmo. It’s a bit different from a single player style game. You buy it for the long run. You expect to be playing for a while. I think it does deserve a longer refund time but 6 months is a bit silly. Again though, if it changes from what you thought where do you draw the line? I mean what if these changes occurred 2 years down the line?

Seriously?!? It’s a sixty dollar game. It’s not like anyone had to mortgage their home to buy it. Suck it up and move on if it’s not for you.

Mepariah.1930:

This makes my top ten saddest threads list. Who cares if Mr.X got a refund or not? How does that affect your game?

What goes around comes around… and considering ANet isn’t a non-profit organization, those refunds will reflect on the real customers, those who actually pay for the game. So yes, it affects my game. If people can play for 3 months for free, while I have to pay just to change my hairdo or get a new bank slot, then yes, it affects my game.
Sorry, but I forgot how to be naive 20 years ago when I was running my first company. The money had to come from somewhere. If they give it back in some place, they need to get it back at some other place.

Ohh, that stings. You really got me there. Lol!

Panda Shepard.1248:

I mean what if these changes occurred 2 years down the line?

The MMORPG motto is: “Game experience may change during online play.”. Want me to list the MMORPGs who changed their world, rules and/or gameplay WAY more drastically than this? I can start with Ultima Online 17+ years ago, and there would NOT be enough place in a single post to list them all I think. Even the “mighty” World of Warcraft completely changed the way the game is played several times, last being the recent Pandaria, where most classes where completely revamped once more.

What if the changes happened 2 years down the line? It’s just a game. You got your time of fun. No difference with changes happening 3 months down the line. Don’t like it to the point of not playing anymore? Don’t play anymore. But asking your money back when you got 3 months worth of entertainment, or 2 years, or 10 years, is just dishonest, and also leaves those who keep on paying for the product with a very bad taste in their mouth.

“Here Bill, you played 3 months, for about 300 hours, please get your money worth of 4800 gems back please, but you, Paul, who keeps on playing and supporting the game, you have to pay 250 gems if you want to change your hairdo”. If nobody sees what’s wrong with that picture…

Yes that shocks me too. People but a game, play it for hours, they don’t like it and then they consider themselves as having a right to a refund for reasons as dumb as “QQ, Gear Trendmill” ?!

Incoming end of the video games industry if that’s considered as normal. Why would anyone buy a game then, if you can just play it for 30 hours and get a full refund because “you don’t like it”.

“you give money (55+ Euros, 60+ dollars, aka approximatively 4800 gems) back to what I would call “scammers”, dishonest people, who got hundreds of hours of play time out of your game and then ask their money back so they basically got 3 months of free entertainment.”

This isn’t helpful to bringing the community back together and is a mischaracterization of why some people may be seeking refunds. Many people bought the game (which is a service not a good) on the premise that it would not have grind, based upon promotional materials that were used to induce purchase. Now the developer has stated that there will be a grind, which is the opposite of what those people wanted in their service. As such they are requesting a refund because they would never have signed up for a service with grind had the same been advertised as such. I think that’s an entirely legitimate and rational decision for those individuals. That being said, I think ArenaNet has learned from this mistake and can even turn the new grind into a feature provided that it finds ways to adopt it to multiple playstyles in game (i.e. the service will still be different than advertised but it might be improved.) That is why I am not seeking a refund (a rational decision based upon my own self interest, not a belief that those asking for a refund are “scammers.”) Let’s leave the vitriol behind and see if we can’t help ArenaNet in this task by making helpful suggestions and engaging the developers in a more positive manner.

You are missing the point here a bit. The recent changes are in no way insignificant. I for one will no longer play this game, do you think the $60 or whatever are in any way compensation for the hours I now consider to have WASTED on this game?

If you’re in your 30s and start out a relationship by clearly stating that you want to have children, and the other person says that’s amazing that they love children so much, and that hearing this makes them happy; only to ultimately let you know 3 months down the line that they will not have children because they don’t want any… the $60 you spent on dinner are insignificant to the three months of wasted relationship that was never going to go anywhere.

Well obviously the returns are not near as much as many want them to be or NCsoft would be out of business by now.

@Amonde: I hope for your own sake that you realize how silly it is to compare playing a video game with a real world relation with a person you love and want to have children with, Amonde. I won’t go any further on this, because it’s a “slippery slope” subject which I feel doesn’t fit on this forum, but your post at best doesn’t make any sense at all.

Lexicaholic.4718:

This isn’t helpful to bringing the community back together and is a mischaracterization of why some people may be seeking refunds.

This doesn’t really affect the community, since those who got refunds can’t play anymore and therefore, by their own choice, are no longer the community.

Self entitlement knows absolutely no bounds. The concept that you can get a refund for a source of entertainment after having spent hours upon hours already playing the game is total insanity to me. I literally don’t even have words to accurately describe the disgust in my fellow video gamers it evokes.

I occassionally go and see a movie that ends up sucking. Thats $12 for 2 hours (Give or take 30 minutes.) That works out to roughly $6 an hour, on average.

There are people getting refunds who have put HUNDREDS of hours in. At 100 hours, thats $0.60 an hour.

So, in modern society, it is acceptable to waste $6 an hour on a movie that you don’t enjoy, and leave the theater simply wishing that you hadn’t seen the movie.

But when you spend $0.60 every hour for the course of 100 hours, if at the end of this experience you are not happy (For whatever reason. I don’t care what it is) you are entitled to a refund now?

Oh man. Again, no words.

I’d very much love to see modern game companies just laugh and give people the finger when they request refunds after a certain playtime limit has been hit.

Amonde Daneren.2380:

You are missing the point here a bit. The recent changes are in no way insignificant. I for one will no longer play this game, do you think the $60 or whatever are in any way compensation for the hours I now consider to have WASTED on this game?

If you’re in your 30s and start out a relationship by clearly stating that you want to have children, and the other person says that’s amazing that they love children so much, and that hearing this makes them happy; only to ultimately let you know 3 months down the line that they will not have children because they don’t want any… the $60 you spent on dinner are insignificant to the three months of wasted relationship that was never going to go anywhere.

Nobody has any issue with you abandoning the game. We take issue with the sense of entitlement that you somehow deserve to have the time and money you spent compensated somehow.

You don’t. You bought the game. You played it. The game headed in a decision you didn’t like, so you step away from the game. Those hours weren’t wasted; you had fun playing the game. The inability to have fun in the future with the game due to changes you don’t agree with doesn’t automatically negate all the fun you already had in the game.

This is the same kind of mentality, using your analogy, that leads to people trying to bankrupt/ruin eachothers lives when a relationship ends. It’s petty, and frankly, disgusting to everyone who is on the outside looking in.

Reasonable folk just think, “Oh, hey. I had some good times.” Then they move on.

Or, to make it even simpler? Life is meaningless because death is inevitable. Nothing I ever do can be enjoyed because at some point, well, jeez, it will stop existing, for one reason or another.

That’s the mentality of these refund supporters. It’s disgusting.

Having some experience working in customer service for a large company has taught me that people who are horrible and kick up a fuss about anything get rewarded. Loyal and polite people get nothing.

So wait, can someone elucidate what GW2’s refund policy is?

People quitting because they said there will be slight stat improvements you can get in a bunch of different ways easily with no power curve and no grind is just ridiculous. They obviously didn’t care much for the game to begin with, or that wouldn’t be enough to make them quit. And they definitely do not deserve a refund after playing for so long.

Bluebird.1890:

Or, to make it even simpler? Life is meaningless because death is inevitable. Nothing I ever do can be enjoyed because at some point, well, jeez, it will stop existing, for one reason or another.

That’s the mentality of these refund supporters. It’s disgusting.

Sounds about right.

And I love how these people think they’re ENTITLED to a refund. I can’t tell you how many posts I’ve seen on various forums of people demanding refunds with hundreds of hours played. They literally can’t grasp the massive favour ANet is doing for them. Instead, they whine about how the forum mods are being unfair and rude by commenting in and locking their ‘return’ threads (no joke).

Well, there’s nothing more stupid than deleting a 3-months work. Just for a few bucks.

That’s all.

Keiran.1896:

Well, there’s nothing more stupid than deleting a 3-months work. Just for a few bucks.

That’s all.

I can guarantee half of them will regret it somewhere down the line.

Ebon.7641:

Bluebird.1890:

Or, to make it even simpler? Life is meaningless because death is inevitable. Nothing I ever do can be enjoyed because at some point, well, jeez, it will stop existing, for one reason or another.

That’s the mentality of these refund supporters. It’s disgusting.

Sounds about right.

And I love how these people think they’re ENTITLED to a refund. I can’t tell you how many posts I’ve seen on various forums of people demanding refunds with hundreds of hours played. They literally can’t grasp the massive favour ANet is doing for them. Instead, they whine about how the forum mods are being unfair and rude by commenting in and locking their ‘return’ threads (no joke).

I believe it. The unfortunate part is that there are apologists for this kind of behavior who leverage the argument of, “Their refund doesn’t impact you, so why do you care so much?”

It’s a larger concept than an immediate return of money to someone who has, quite literally, already spent that money on hours of entertainment that they will now devalue artificially as an excuse to get it back.

It’s the fact that we, as a society, are actively encouraging this kind of entitlement by buckling under their demands.

Seriously. I’m not trying to sound hyperbolic or be all doom and gloom, but we are ENCOURAGING people to be self entitled jerks, and continue to float through life thinking that they are owed everything by everybody.

I don’t get it.

Bluebird.1890:

Ebon.7641:

Bluebird.1890:

Or, to make it even simpler? Life is meaningless because death is inevitable. Nothing I ever do can be enjoyed because at some point, well, jeez, it will stop existing, for one reason or another.

That’s the mentality of these refund supporters. It’s disgusting.

Sounds about right.

And I love how these people think they’re ENTITLED to a refund. I can’t tell you how many posts I’ve seen on various forums of people demanding refunds with hundreds of hours played. They literally can’t grasp the massive favour ANet is doing for them. Instead, they whine about how the forum mods are being unfair and rude by commenting in and locking their ‘return’ threads (no joke).

I believe it. The unfortunate part is that there are apologists for this kind of behavior who leverage the argument of, “Their refund doesn’t impact you, so why do you care so much?”

It’s a larger concept than an immediate return of money to someone who has, quite literally, already spent that money on hours of entertainment that they will now devalue artificially as an excuse to get it back.

It’s the fact that we, as a society, are actively encouraging this kind of entitlement by buckling under their demands.

Seriously. I’m not trying to sound hyperbolic or be all doom and gloom, but we are ENCOURAGING people to be self entitled jerks, and continue to float through life thinking that they are owed everything by everybody.

I don’t get it.

Yeah, I realize ANet was trying to do good here but frankly I think it was a mistake on their part. I don’t even want to know how much money they’ve lost because of these people.

I have disagreed with most, if not all, the decisions ArenaNet made in the past 6 months or so and I have always expressed my disagreement loudly. However, asking for a refund after spending several hundred hours using the product, enjoying it or not, is the very definition of unfairness. I fail to see why, out of all things that people requested be done, they decided to do refunds.

I wouldn’t imagine EA or any other big company refunding a 5-minute old purchase, EU legislation or not. It still boggles my mind why ArenaNet is refunding people with hundreds of hours played.

Wait, people are able to get refunds?? How? A refund would pay approximately 4 months of my DAoC subscription.

If they didn’t want people getting refunds after buying the game, they shouldn’t have pulled the biggest bait-and-switch in gaming since Fable 2 / Fable 3.

Chamone.6890:

If they didn’t want people getting refunds after buying the game, they shouldn’t have pulled the biggest bait-and-switch in gaming since Fable 2 / Fable 3.

Except you didn’t get a refund on Fable 2/3 after playing the game for 100’s of hours.

In fact, if I remember the Fable series as accurately as I think I do, you beat most of hte game in under 8 hours anyway.

So, yeah. This comparison doesn’t really hold water. Probably just trolling anyway.

NO. Just NO. It is not false advertise or bait-and-switch. NEVER was it said there wouldn’t be vertical progression by an ANet designer. Vertical progression was in the game at the start what do you think the fine > masterwork > rare > exotic progression was, it sure wasn’t horizontal. The fact of the matter is you can do everything in game save high difficulty fractals in masterwork armor… in fact that’s what I did until I got my exotic set and I had 0 issues surviving in dungeons due to gear.

Like I said in another post somewhere, gear is nowhere near as important as a players overall SKILL at the game. a good player in masterwork gear will 9 times out of 10 kill a bad player decked out in full exotics. The same holds true for an upleveled player in Wv3 being able to kill a true 80, if the upleveled player is better at timing dodges, heals , and condition removals they will be able to kill a true 80.

Hello,

As this thread has derailled in many ways, it is now closed.

Please remember to stay constructive on this forum and avoid off topic posting.

Thank you.