Regarding the Expansion 2
I personally don’t care about that balancing. It’s more that the direction of the game is completely geared towards the hardcore players. Check the latest update. It’s only a raid, nothing for those people that will never be able to do raids as raids are not made for casuals…
I’m going to presume that any new expansion will only add more content for the hard core people, and hardly anything for the rest of the player base.
I personally don’t care about that balancing. It’s more that the direction of the game is completely geared towards the hardcore players. Check the latest update. It’s only a raid, nothing for those people that will never be able to do raids as raids are not made for casuals…
I’m going to presume that any new expansion will only add more content for the hard core people, and hardly anything for the rest of the player base.
Yeah how dare those raiders get 2 pieces of content when the previous 50 were geared at casual players!
…This has been your reality check, you can come back now.
I personally don’t care about that balancing. It’s more that the direction of the game is completely geared towards the hardcore players. Check the latest update. It’s only a raid, nothing for those people that will never be able to do raids as raids are not made for casuals…
I’m going to presume that any new expansion will only add more content for the hard core people, and hardly anything for the rest of the player base.
Yeah how dare those raiders get 2 pieces of content when the previous 50 were geared at casual players!
…This has been your reality check, you can come back now.
Yes how dare HoT fail at sales cause “lots” of hardcore players play it often.
…your reality check will be no players willing to do raids cause they left for other games.
I personally don’t care about that balancing. It’s more that the direction of the game is completely geared towards the hardcore players. Check the latest update. It’s only a raid, nothing for those people that will never be able to do raids as raids are not made for casuals…
I’m going to presume that any new expansion will only add more content for the hard core people, and hardly anything for the rest of the player base.
“hardcore” and “casual” are nonsensical to me. You’re either play the game or you don’t.
In response to you, you should be concerned with PvE balance as well. Excessive power creep will dull your experience, and a profession that outclasses yours would essentially remove your spot from raids.
Balance is a huge deal to WvW and PvP players for obvious reasons.
I dare say if they nerfed everyone’s abilities to have no traits and only an auto attack, then we would have a wonderful balance. Since its not that easy let them work on it. It’s not like every employee at anet can focus on balance... it wouldn’t work. Any ways I don’t see why they cannot continue on multiple things like the ama mentions.... oh right they are, so be patient.
I personally don’t care about that balancing. It’s more that the direction of the game is completely geared towards the hardcore players. Check the latest update. It’s only a raid, nothing for those people that will never be able to do raids as raids are not made for casuals…
I’m going to presume that any new expansion will only add more content for the hard core people, and hardly anything for the rest of the player base.
“hardcore” and “casual” are nonsensical to me. You’re either play the game or you don’t.
In response to you, you should be concerned with PvE balance as well. Excessive power creep will dull your experience, and a profession that outclasses yours would essentially remove your spot from raids.
Balance is a huge deal to WvW and PvP players for obvious reasons.
Hardcore is spending two to three hours (or more) doing something difficult in one go.
Casual is spending 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there and finally taking about 2 weeks to get that same thing done.
HoT won’t allow me to do that. If I spend 10 minutes in a map, I won’t get most of the content done there. It’ll take a lot of time (in one sitting) to even get a chance for one of the armour pieces for instance.
A good example of casual gameplay would be the collecting parts of the precursor hunts. I can spend 10 minutes here and 10 minutes there, getting one part done each time. In the end it’ll take me 300 minutes, spread across multiple weeks.
And how would balancing improve the game if there’s no new content? Replaying old content will become boring eventually, no matter how much balancing you throw against it.
I think Anet should consider making raids more(easily) available to a wider selection of the player base.
The way things stand if you aren’t in a certain circle of players you don’t get into raid parties, nor do you get into raid parties that ever make it past Vale Guardian. Kind of sick of being locked out of such an important addition to this game because I am not in a certain group of players.
ANET either poop or get off the pot. Raids are supposed to be playable by everybody not just SOME of the people playing this game. I paid for Core Tyria, I paid for Heart of Thorns, I deserve to be able to play the game as you present it not be dis-included in part of it because I don’t know certain people.
I think Anet should consider making raids more(easily) available to a wider selection of the player base.
The way things stand if you aren’t in a certain circle of players you don’t get into raid parties, nor do you get into raid parties that ever make it past Vale Guardian. Kind of sick of being locked out of such an important addition to this game because I am not in a certain group of players.
ANET either poop or get off the pot. Raids are supposed to be playable by everybody not just SOME of the people playing this game. I paid for Core Tyria, I paid for Heart of Thorns, I deserve to be able to play the game as you present it not be dis-included in part of it because I don’t know certain people.
Personal problem not an Anet problem.
Take some initiative and form a group, or join a group.
And how would balancing improve the game if there’s no new content? Replaying old content will become boring eventually, no matter how much balancing you throw against it.
I get your point, but there strives to be a healthy medium between new content and fixing old content. The pace of new content is going faster than what Karl, Roy, and Robert seem to be capable of handling. The balance problem isn’t a small one either. You’re seeing class stacking in PvP, completely useless professions in WvW, and builds that are overused or never used in all areas. To at least achieve reasonable balance so these problems aren’t as significant would be a better move instead of throwing more salt on the wound.
While I’m all for “new ways” to play the game, the pace of the new content releases (quantity) is going faster than what the balance team could manage (quality)…
The concept of being OP is a player-side thing. The monsters have to be balanced against a generic model citizen (you could almost say, a player in Celestial) rather than the player choice. Someone in Settler’s out there has to be represented so while things seem excessive if you are using a specific set of stats and tricks it’s actually going as planned.
This too is one of the least fun things about building and designing for many people. Someone’s always using Settler’s.
ANET either poop or get off the pot. Raids are supposed to be playable by everybody not just SOME of the people playing this game.
That’s incorrect. Raids should be playable be everyone, but they didn’t intend for everyone to be able to raid successfully. (I recall a dev saying this a while back, but I cannot find the source)
Jahroots, the whole point I am making is that I paid for 2 games. They are giving one of those games away for free now. Why ad content that people are unable to play then charge for it.
I never intended to buy a game which has content that “i’m not intended to complete successfully,” I mean just that last statement leads me to believe they deliberately intended their game to be broken(or geared to only a few special players), and then sold us said broken game(or game geared only to a few special players) on purpose. Which would be bad business in my opinion.
Jahroots, the whole point I am making is that I paid for 2 games. They are giving one of those games away for free now. Why ad content that people are unable to play then charge for it.
I never intended to buy a game which has content that “i’m not intended to complete successfully,” I mean just that last statement leads me to believe they deliberately intended their game to be broken(or geared to only a few special players), and then sold us said broken game(or game geared only to a few special players) on purpose. Which would be bad business in my opinion.
Let’s not derail this thread please. I’m talking about balance, not talking about making content more accessible
Let’s not derail this thread please. I’m talking about balance, not talking about making content more accessible
The two are one in the same.
Let’s not derail this thread please. I’m talking about balance, not talking about making content more accessible
The two are one in the same.
How so?
I’m on the topic about new content’s pacing vs the balancing of old content
How does that compare with making content more accessible?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Datamined-new-sigils/6030398 this is an example of new content pacing vs balancing of old content. It’s like concept designers vs engineers; where the concept designers are designing things that go outside scopes of reason and engineers work to fix them.
Let’s not derail this thread please. I’m talking about balance, not talking about making content more accessible
The two are one in the same.
How so?
I’m on the topic about new content’s pacing vs the balancing of old content
How does that compare with making content more accessible?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Datamined-new-sigils/6030398 this is an example of new content pacing vs balancing of old content. It’s like concept designers vs engineers; where the concept designers are designing things that go outside scopes of reason and engineers work to fix them.
Accessibility is probably the most important aspect of balance.
Simply put the elite professions are in-game proof of this; you do not go to a Berserker for healing and you don’t go to a druid for DPS.
Yes how dare HoT fail at sales cause “lots” of hardcore players play it often.
…your reality check will be no players willing to do raids cause they left for other games.
4 super casual meta event maps, and 18 story chapters sure is on par with 2 raid wings and 2 PvP seasons.
Back to the topic now, take your rant over to the we hate raids thread where you can find solace of like minded people who are to stubborn to form a group to “PHIW”.
It’s a task and a half getting the proper balance, to match the release cycles for content. While it would be nice to see them being more frequent, the issue arises that frequent changes are often knee-jerk reactions. See Coalessence of Ruin and Scorched Earth for recent examples.
Excuse me, I don’t hate raids I just think they should make them more available to more average players.
… this thread has nothing to do with raids and their accessibility.
This topic is about balancing the professions. NOTHING IN THE OP SAYS RAIDS
Proper balance between professions doesn’t exist, and never will. There will always be a better class/spec/skill. Devs can change what it is, but they can’t make everything equal against everything.
If the developers stopped working on everything until balance was fixed, we’d never get anything except endless imbalance patches. I can’t think of anything that would kill the game faster.
Balance should be a side project, not the main show.
‘We have about 120 devs working on the live game, 70 devs on Expac2, and 30 devs on core teams that support both.’ (reddit ama)
-Seems reasonable.
I also doubt you have to worry about the next expack coming this year. And finally more elite specs will only increase build diversity. Instead of having one must-have op traitline, you’d have at least two, being forced to choose between them.
‘We have about 120 devs working on the live game, 70 devs on Expac2, and 30 devs on core teams that support both.’ (reddit ama)
-Seems reasonable.
I also doubt you have to worry about the next expack coming this year. And finally more elite specs will only increase build diversity. Instead of having one must-have op traitline, you’d have at least two, being forced to choose between them.
Allow me to share with you my perspective, and hopefully someone can refute my thoughts.
My response is from my perspective and my perspective only.
You’re seeing a lot of complaints and few constructive suggestions because there’s no easy solution to approach the problems. Each time new content is released, it adds to the complications by introducing new variables to account for- thus making fixing and balancing more challenging.
I agree with you that there’s a lack of constructive suggestions on these forums.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Help-ArenaNet-balance-the-professions/6024040
Frankly, I’m tired of all the useless complaints and nothing to work off of- so I’ve taken upon myself to do the job for them. Making facilitated discussions on how to fix the problem, and creating a suggestion spreadsheet that gets refined through community feedback. (about 99% finished with warrior balance proposal, in the refining stages of guardian proposal, about to start a thief balance proposal. See links in my signature to view them, or other profession’s sub-forums to find my discussions on current problems)
Despite our efforts, it’s probably all in vain if Arenanet decides to pump out new unrefined content regardless of what I’m doing. It’s like adding fuel to the fire I’m trying to extinguish- every time there’s content- whether it be a sigil, rune, specialization, or profession, I need to consider more variables to develop a balance plan.
Frankly, I’m surprised Karl, Roy, and Robert have stayed with ArenaNet as long as they have. It’s an uphill battle for them and I know how hard it is to balance 9 professions, >600 traits, >1000 skills, countless sigils, runes, and food effects.
I personally don’t care about that balancing. It’s more that the direction of the game is completely geared towards the hardcore players. Check the latest update. It’s only a raid, nothing for those people that will never be able to do raids as raids are not made for casuals…
I’m going to presume that any new expansion will only add more content for the hard core people, and hardly anything for the rest of the player base.
This is a kittenumption Allow me to explain why I believe it’s so.
Anet has always been hyper-reactive. They can’t react fast however, but they do react. In Guild Wars 1 there was a ton of complaints about Prophecies being too long and too slow. So they came out with Factions which was too small and too fast. Then they game out with Nightfall which brought the pendulum back.
Anet spent years being told the content is too easy. There’s not enough challenging content. That’s what they responded too. Now people are complaining there’s not enough casual content and the next expansion will be like the pendulum swinging back.
Anet did with with the NPE which was overkill but most of it slid back too.
At the end of the stay, one data point does not a trend make.
I totally agree with Vayne above me, my complaint about raids is not about content. It is about accessibility if they release content they should make it accessible to everybody not just a few elitist groups of people who wont help others attain that content. So I make the point that ANET needs to make raids more accessible to the average player base.
Raids are accessible to everyone, the whole average player base.
Last night the new raid wing dropped and whilst I was farming flax I saw a ton of people lfg in map chat (probably more in the LFG tool) with no criteria.
“all welcome, no experience required”
How could it be more accessible?
“you have to be experienced ascended meta”
“nobody wants a necro in their party”
“you have to be in a guild”
None of those things are true all the time.
Blame Abaddon, he loves your tears.
pve, raid, pvp, fractal, dungeon, world clearing, legendary questing.. Zapped!
pve, raid, pvp, fractal, dungeon, world clearing, legendary questing.. Zapped!
Back to balance..
I feel there is some effort made for some of the game types some of the time, there has been some rebalancing.
There are no doubt some genuine complaints that it’s too hard in pvp to do something but if you fixed that would you not make it too easy in wvw?
I see a large part of it as just being player led flavour of the month type fixes. If your bear bow ranger is op in pve, play it in pve. You can’t play it in pvp where condi thief rules. But what about your useless DH who keeps getting rolled in pvp now (to heck with those condi thieves, right?)? Turns out it’s awesome in WvWvW.
Swings and roundabouts maybe, devs provide a framework and players figure out how to make it work? With gear and personal food and utility items or group items like feasts and thesis of things and changing the traits per encounter and swapping skills and weapons..
How can you balance all of those things? Surely it’s better for the players to figure out a build from those things. Also better for players to figure out which game types their theory crafting should work best in, it’s good that you need different builds for the different gametypes, would be pretty bad if viper ele was op in all game modes. Except for those people with viper ele’s obviously.
Blame Abaddon, he loves your tears.
pve, raid, pvp, fractal, dungeon, world clearing, legendary questing.. Zapped!
pve, raid, pvp, fractal, dungeon, world clearing, legendary questing.. Zapped!
ANET either poop or get off the pot. Raids are supposed to be playable by everybody not just SOME of the people playing this game.
That’s incorrect. Raids should be playable be everyone, but they didn’t intend for everyone to be able to raid successfully. (I recall a dev saying this a while back, but I cannot find the source)
You say “intend” here, but I think a better term is expect. I think they would love if every player who plays could do it successfully.
All it takes is practice and patience anyway. I did it, most others have done it. Its not going to be something you can just go into and win the first time.
“He shall make whole that which was torn asunder.
Restore that which was lost. And all shall be as one.”
Restore that which was lost. And all shall be as one.”
… this thread has nothing to do with raids and their accessibility.
This topic is about balancing the professions. NOTHING IN THE OP SAYS RAIDS
Which is why accessibility (though not specifically to raids) is the issue. In order for a truly balanced game you need equivalent ability and choice between all classes. This just isn’t possible with different skills unless all those skills were re-animated versions of the same underlying effect.
So long as one character is better at something than another you’re SoL on balance.
Edit: Let me say it this way instead; balance has two sides, developer or GM side and player side. In tabletops GM side balance is how strong the goblin is, how much you get in stats from your legendary find, and how an effect not covered in your campaign book, or is being created by your group is, right? The same is true of all developer games; whether it’s Call of Duty or Skyrim players do not decide the strength of the base weapon inherently (so ignoring mods) and the physics and all that is handed to them.
Character balance is a player side behavior, not a developer/GM side behavior. When you roll stats in a game it’s you making choices, the PC, but this only works if, and only if, you have access to the materials behind the whole game. An excellent example would be first time Demon’s / Dark Souls / Bloodborne players and games alike it where it’s difficulty is relative to your ignorance, not it’s content, because what stats you choose dictates your experience and your experience is based solely around your decisions both long-term and immediate.
MMOs are usually the direct opposite with GW2 taking a partial approach where everyone has the same base stats and only equipment (player choice) dictates things however how those things are dictated is beyond player choice and simple considerations can be made on the dev side. For instance currently there’s a 3-2-1 system in which ferocity, precision, and power all work together (3), condition damage and expertise work together (2), toughness and healing power work together (2), and everything else is stand alone (1).
The best option is always the one with the highest value for synergy.
(edited by DGraves.3720)