Guild Wars 2

This post is part position statement, discussion (in an attempt to gain understanding), and argument.

During the past few months playing GW2 I’ve run into 2 types of players – those who skip mobs (single enemies or groups of them) and those who prefer to kill them. I’m one of the latter. Most recently my context for this is Fractals of the Mists (FotM), but this was evident in other dungeons before Fractals was available.

I would like to define 2 types of mobs (now I am specifically talking about FotM, but this does apply in other areas of the world). Discrete mobs and continuous mobs. Continuous mobs are continually respawning and typically do not drop anything. Discrete mobs will not respawn once killed and typically yield loot, from junk to exotics and everything in between. When I talk about killing mobs, I’m referring to discrete types.

Also, there is a caveat. Some mobs like Lt. Kholer in Ascalon Catacombs dropped poor loot for time spent killing him. this is the grey area, but really what constitutes “too much time spent”? It depends on one perceives time, the group and how seasoned of a player one is. So I do understand that sometimes it’s not worth it. That being said, my understanding is that Anet fixed some of the loot tables for some of the dungeon bosses.
Also, if you have a group that you run with constantly and are extremely efficient and organized because you’ll be running multiple times and that time saving will really add up, that being said, you’ll also be faster at killing mobs.

So I prefer to kill mobs, i’m biased, i’m not hiding that fact. My typically experience with a decent/good group is that discrete trash mobs take little time to kill. I’ve timed it and we are talking between 30 seconds and 3 minutes. For a run like the Jade Maw Level, you are looking at 2-5 minutes to kill the mobs leading up to the boss fight – this is similar in other levels of FotM, the fire grawl level and the bats, the cliffside level and the enemies there (forgot what they are called).

I find that if we skip killing these discrete mobs we save about that amount of time and no drops. I’ve gotten ascended vials, 1 exotic, lodestones, and rares from these mobs. Now, not every time am I so lucky, but I does happen, especially the vials. I’ve been challenged with the argument – “well you use magic find gear so you want to grind”. Yes, I am motivated by my magic find gear to kill more mobs, but I’m not going out of my way to grind the same monsters over and over again – they are in our path, they are easy to take down, they offer loot for minimal time investment. Lets say I wasn’t using magic find, I would still take the blues, whites, and junk that drops and sell it or salvage it for cash. Having a few extra silver is better than saving a minute or 2 getting to the boss. not to mention when skipping then players with low defense often die and need to be rezed – thus slowing down the group even more. I’m not sure if it’s just that people want immediate gratification and if they aren’t getting yellows every time its worth skipping or what? you need to kill monsters consistently to see a return on your investment – It’s like statistics, a sample size needs to be large enough to make a solid decision.

So, maybe I’m missing the point to skipping the mobs? If I am please point it out.

Some people are in a hurry to reach the shiny in the Maw chest. Sadly, they miss out on many golds worth of shinies on the way.

I don’t see a point in skipping mobs in fractals. Aye.
There is really few places where you can actually do it and they are usually have low numbers so it doesn’t matters anyway.

But in dungeons it’s different.
The majority of reward comes from boss chests and completion reward. So the point is to get to the end as fast as possible as it will give you a stable gold+tokens reward.

If there is a resource nodes on your way, and your group is running to XYZ area, do you stop and harvest all the resource nodes? That is basically what you’re doing. You’re pulling the car over on a road trip to stop at a location no one else wants to.

“But it is on the way.”

The people you’re talking about aren’t there to kill those mobs, or to get random RNG loot drops. Heck, most people aren’t even having fun while they sleep through those runs. They’re there to finish the Jade Maw, open their daily box, and get back to doing what they actually want to do and that they find fun.

To you, maybe the RNG-change to get blues/whites are worth it. To them, they obviously aren’t.

Different goals in the same group.

Thanks for pointing that out Isslair, maybe folks are apply dunegon mentality to FotM,

I prefer to kill everything.

Plus you must also note that when skipping mobs; especially in a close quarters area. Not a dungeon. You stand the chance of causing a train on someone else that is there.
this is bad form and rude since your thoughtless act might get the other player killed.

“Kill…everything.”

It all depends. Sometimes I skip, and sometimes I don’t.

If I am doing AC I generally don’t skip, I will always kill kholer (the silver is worth it). Now as for Fractals…..I generally skip all but dredge. Most groups skip up to Jade maw which I am fine with, I already got my back so /shrug.

Some exploreables I do skip though. Such as TA with Spider room/Knights. Just not worth it imo.

Dead, you bring up a good point. while it’s worth it to some (like myself), it’s not for you, and that’s ok. I wish there was a way to identify this difference before entering an instance as to avoid conflict.

As someone who skips I always ask “Our we gonna skip X”, because it is a pain if one person is in one mindset and gets left behind while others rush ahead. I remember that feeling way back in my first exp runs. Most players skip so keep that in mind.

If you are anti-skipping etc, I highly advice you form your own dungeon running guild, or set up a dungeon running group. PuGs are random and highly unpredictable.

Necrochild.1497:

“Kill…everything.”

LOL!!!! Thanks for the laugh buddy xD

I share your sentiment.
I always ask the party to kill all mobs on Jade Maw’s.
Most people don’t want to, and I don’t understand why: They can drop 2 types of lodestones and the drop rate seems pretty good (got a decent number of exotics in that map). Also, with the stealth nerf to loot outside the fractals is twice profitable.

Just a PSA: Since the dungeon update, dungeon sub-bosses (such as Kohler) should never, ever, ever be skipped. They drop silver (which can be boosted with foods) and Bags of Wondrous Goods (which contain a few more silver, karma, and dungeon tokens).

Silver Per Second should be the golden standard to measure the efficiency of killing vs. skipping.

No everyone has time or wants to spend any more time than they have to in a dungeon. If you want to farm mobs, then go farm mobs. If you want to farm mobs and do dungeons, well that’s your problem. The fact that you’re using magic find gear makes me even less likely to give a kitten about what you want to do.

If the majority in the group decides to skip, then that’s all there is to it

Id like to point out that if you do not want to skip mobs but your group wants to… just quit the group. Not like its that hard to find another group doing something unless you are looking for something specific. FotM whatever just quit in the middle of it. Lol. Nice guys dont get what they want solution is to stop being nice. Thats one option but nah Ive only ever quit one group not counting the ones where we were just wiping for the fifth time on the same thing. Skipping mobs in AC…… Ive about a thousand of the AC tokens I didnt come there for more tokens…. kittenhose guild runs where I am the fifth random guy you see some pretty unique stuff. 99% good but if its really really stupid its on a guild run. I level almost entirely in AC from level 30 to 75. End rant. Dont quit. Ive quit one due to nerd rage but wish it was zero. Just go with the flow and have fun.

None were spared Durzllas wrath, the trash mobs fait shall be no different….

i’ve designed a build tanky enough to be able to toe to toe with most veterans and as such me and my friend (never dungeon alone) will kill everything together, if the group doesn’t like how long we take they either help out or have to deal with it.

Saying that the time spent killing them is equal to the time spent skipping them is entirely bullkitten, especially in mf gear. Honestly, I have little respect for those who wear mf gear to dungeons (I bring a set but only equip it to pick up drops from chests or champs) exclusively because it already seems you have little respect for me and the rest of the group. Sure, killing the trash mobs for loot can be worth it, but the time spent vs reward just isn’t worth it for us that wear dps/def gear to dungeons to support the team.

@Indoles – Chest loot isn’t effected by Magic find at all. Devs themselves have stated it.

Edit: I agree Magic find is a stupid stat and those that use it in group do hurt group min/max DPS/Survivability. I don’t really care much if others use it, but I refuse to buy a set myself. So clearing trash has a negative effect as I have an innate lower chance to get “good” goodies in dungeons vs speed clearing it and getting guaranteed drops.

Dead.7385:

@Indoles – Chest loot isn’t effected by Magic find at all. Devs themselves have stated it.

Thanks for that, seriously. I still use it to pick up drops, especially from champs. Still, my point stands. I don’t equip mf gear in combat.

I thought the grind in gw2 was supposed to be optional.

cdunning.6815:

Dead, you bring up a good point. while it’s worth it to some (like myself), it’s not for you, and that’s ok. I wish there was a way to identify this difference before entering an instance as to avoid conflict.

we could call this the paradox of group inspecting
how much can we ask:
armor, build, speed clear, widget, voice, experience, class

before we lose the benefits of asking
we develop the language on our own already
do we need a way to translate to each better?
certainly yes, author
I read your story as I am here and I am a hero hero kill the monies bags
would that be
45 % fist
35 % crown
20% heart
.14% for spice

If I’m doing fractal, I’m skipping, I just wanna get it over with.

@OP
I believe you haven’t considered some things while writhing your post on this particular subject.
1st. You haven’t taken in consideration the skill of a particular player/group. For example some “trash” mobs in certain dungeons can be actually tougher then the boss fight at the end. You mentioned that when you go with your experienced party it takes you 30sec-1min to kill some mobs, well in more inexperienced and random groups those mobs can result in many deaths and lots of backtracking from waypoints in some more extreme cases I have seen dungeon runs that in average last from 30-45 min get prolonged to 1.5-2h sometimes even longer and of course player mentality has adapted to this particular issue by eliminating the chance of it to happen thus simply skipping mobs. Nobody wants to be stuck in the same dungeon path for 3h because your teammates are dying from few hits by an average mob. Because this is something you cannot control in random parties.
2nd. Have you considered how repetitive dungeon runs may become? Lets say someone wants 3 weapons and full gear from some dungeon, that’s cca 1500 tokens with DR on the same paths in the same server day and that there are some pretty tough and long dungeons that even for exp players last more than hour. I understand that dungeon runs are fun for you and you dont want to miss on opportunity to earn some extra loot along the way, but can you see how they might be less fun for someone who has to do 25+ runs in the SAME dungeon? And that someone I assure you does not want to spend his or hers whole day doing only that that particular aspect of the game?
3rd. There are players like me that have hit the end game wall. I have absolutely everything I wanted on my Character whether it’s the gear (both stats wise and appearance wise) 100% map completion and have completed all self imposed goals i wanted to achieve in the game. I am placed in front of 2 options. 1st: I can stop playing the game completely or focus on pvp and www aspects of it and 2nd: log in once and awhile and do some content for fun like: dungeons, dragons or jumping puzzles or what not. Someone like me doesn’t care if we kill mobs or not because I don’t need money nor loot from them so why bother? Because the only thing that can offer me remotely any challenge are boss fights. Why not skip?
4th. There are many people who don’t like dungeons, they simply find that particular aspect of the game not to their liking yet they are “forced” into doing them because they want that “cool” looking armor that can only be obtained that way. Do you see why someone like that would want to skip as much of it as possible and be done with it as fast as he can?
5th. Reason is simple: killing dungeon trash isn’t fun. They are pretty much like any other mobs in the world with increased health pool, not many people enjoy standing in one place auto attacking and waiting for some mob with million health to die.

At the point I saw you were wearing mf gear I ignored everything else and reminded myself why I’m glad I never run pugs anymore.

VOLKON.1290:

Some people are in a hurry to reach the shiny in the Maw chest. Sadly, they miss out on many golds worth of shinies on the way.

1.5h in dungeon already… kill trash for 20 min and risk disconnect or kill boss?

Yep.. kill boss.

Yep.. kill boss.

Catcrafter.3917:

@OP
I believe you haven’t considered some things while writhing your post on this particular subject.
1st. You haven’t taken in consideration the skill of a particular player/group. For example some “trash” mobs in certain dungeons can be actually tougher then the boss fight at the end. You mentioned that when you go with your experienced party it takes you 30sec-1min to kill some mobs, well in more inexperienced and random groups those mobs can result in many deaths and lots of backtracking from waypoints in some more extreme cases I have seen dungeon runs that in average last from 30-45 min get prolonged to 1.5-2h sometimes even longer and of course player mentality has adapted to this particular issue by eliminating the chance of it to happen thus simply skipping mobs. Nobody wants to be stuck in the same dungeon path for 3h because your teammates are dying from few hits by an average mob. Because this is something you cannot control in random parties.
2nd. Have you considered how repetitive dungeon runs may become? Lets say someone wants 3 weapons and full gear from some dungeon, that’s cca 1500 tokens with DR on the same paths in the same server day and that there are some pretty tough and long dungeons that even for exp players last more than hour. I understand that dungeon runs are fun for you and you dont want to miss on opportunity to earn some extra loot along the way, but can you see how they might be less fun for someone who has to do 25+ runs in the SAME dungeon? And that someone I assure you does not want to spend his or hers whole day doing only that that particular aspect of the game?
3rd. There are players like me that have hit the end game wall. I have absolutely everything I wanted on my Character whether it’s the gear (both stats wise and appearance wise) 100% map completion and have completed all self imposed goals i wanted to achieve in the game. I am placed in front of 2 options. 1st: I can stop playing the game completely or focus on pvp and www aspects of it and 2nd: log in once and awhile and do some content for fun like: dungeons, dragons or jumping puzzles or what not. Someone like me doesn’t care if we kill mobs or not because I don’t need money nor loot from them so why bother? Because the only thing that can offer me remotely any challenge are boss fights. Why not skip?
4th. There are many people who don’t like dungeons, they simply find that particular aspect of the game not to their liking yet they are “forced” into doing them because they want that “cool” looking armor that can only be obtained that way. Do you see why someone like that would want to skip as much of it as possible and be done with it as fast as he can?
5th. Reason is simple: killing dungeon trash isn’t fun. They are pretty much like any other mobs in the world with increased health pool, not many people enjoy standing in one place auto attacking and waiting for some mob with million health to die.

Thank you for your comments. I do see what you’re saying. You’re correct, I’ve been in those groups were we waste hours and hours on trash mobs – you’re right it’s not fun – in that case it is better to run. And from a “I have all I need perspective” – I understand that too, although I’m far from having everything I want, still a long ways off from my legendary. I guess I should have been more clear about what I"m talking about is more specifically FotM, short little dungeons, with mobs that are relatively easy to mow down (i’m talking about lvls 1-15-ish, I can’t speak for high levels) and that happen to be on the way to the boss, i’m not talking about going out of the way to kill MORE mobs than necessary, just what is there for a normal progression. Anyway, thanks for your insight.

NoOneShotU.3479:

VOLKON.1290:

Some people are in a hurry to reach the shiny in the Maw chest. Sadly, they miss out on many golds worth of shinies on the way.

1.5h in dungeon already… kill trash for 20 min and risk disconnect or kill boss?

Yep.. kill boss.

Yep.. kill boss.

Again, this is more for FotM, not other dungeons.

Strifey.7215:

At the point I saw you were wearing mf gear I ignored everything else and reminded myself why I’m glad I never run pugs anymore.

I’m not sure what pugs mean, but I’ve had great success with MF gear and I"m not sure why there is such animosity towards it. Again, I’m not suggest grinding in my opinion, simply killing what is en route to the goal (FotM, nothing excessive.

mulch.2586:

I thought the grind in gw2 was supposed to be optional.

It is for the most part, I’m not speaking about grind which would be killing the same mob over and over again. I’m talking about killing enemies en route to an objective that waste little time. Not excessive grinding. Again, this is more aimed at FotM.

Knote.2904:

If I’m doing fractal, I’m skipping, I just wanna get it over with.

fair enough reason.

Right, you run with Magic Find set and expect your team to slow down so you could make use of those sweet, sweet MF%

Here’s a tip:
Tell everyone in LA LFG – Wearing Magic Find %, any Dungeon, clearing all trash mobs.

You tell me how many invites you’d get.

Dead.7385:

@Indoles – Chest loot isn’t effected by Magic find at all. Devs themselves have stated it.

Edit: I agree Magic find is a stupid stat and those that use it in group do hurt group min/max DPS/Survivability. I don’t really care much if others use it, but I refuse to buy a set myself. So clearing trash has a negative effect as I have an innate lower chance to get “good” goodies in dungeons vs speed clearing it and getting guaranteed drops.

I’ve had great success with magic find and I’m often dying very infrequently. I"m not sure if you’re statement is necessarily grounded in fact but rather speculation. You do other stats for magic find – but i’m not convinced this dramatically effects all of the variables you indicated.

Indoles.1467:

Saying that the time spent killing them is equal to the time spent skipping them is entirely bullkitten, especially in mf gear. Honestly, I have little respect for those who wear mf gear to dungeons (I bring a set but only equip it to pick up drops from chests or champs) exclusively because it already seems you have little respect for me and the rest of the group. Sure, killing the trash mobs for loot can be worth it, but the time spent vs reward just isn’t worth it for us that wear dps/def gear to dungeons to support the team.

you’re right i should edit my post. more time is spent killing mobs than not.

Dominae.3146:

If there is a resource nodes on your way, and your group is running to XYZ area, do you stop and harvest all the resource nodes? That is basically what you’re doing. You’re pulling the car over on a road trip to stop at a location no one else wants to.

“But it is on the way.”

The people you’re talking about aren’t there to kill those mobs, or to get random RNG loot drops. Heck, most people aren’t even having fun while they sleep through those runs. They’re there to finish the Jade Maw, open their daily box, and get back to doing what they actually want to do and that they find fun.

To you, maybe the RNG-change to get blues/whites are worth it. To them, they obviously aren’t.

Different goals in the same group.

I appreciate your post, but you can’t really say “most people dont like those runs”, you can’t feasibly represent the opinons of most of the people who play guild wars 2 – this is your personal opinion, not “most peoples”. That being said, my point is that people who just want to kill the Jade Maw (to use your example) should consider spending an extra 2 minutes killing the mobs on the way to take advantage of the loot drops – all they have to gain is some cash for a measly 2 minutes, but to some that 2-5 minutes might not be worth it.

DancingPenguins.9875:

Silver Per Second should be the golden standard to measure the efficiency of killing vs. skipping.

it should, its unfortunate I don’t have that data.

Depends on the run, really.

Skipping mobs in TA, for instance, can save kittenloads of time.

FotM and Dungeons are different when it comes to skipping mobs.

FotM tends to have a very strict path set out and fairly little trash mobs. They also have better drop tables. I’d always kill them since skipping them can often result in more wasted times should somebody die or wipe.

And often the time gained by skipping in FotM is only in the range of 2-3 minutes vs. dozens of minutes that can be saves in a Dungeon.

So in FotM = Kill mobs…always.

in Dungeons: Skip mobs if there is a safe and reliable way to do so and you wont have to worry about them should someone die or the group wipe.

cdunning.6815:

Dead, you bring up a good point. while it’s worth it to some (like myself), it’s not for you, and that’s ok. I wish there was a way to identify this difference before entering an instance as to avoid conflict.

Yeah, if only people could say something like “speed run” when asking for party members…

Strifey.7215:

At the point I saw you were wearing mf gear I ignored everything else and reminded myself why I’m glad I never run pugs anymore.

This. Gods bless the guilds. But I’ll take note and make sure not to stumble upon the op in case I need a pug.

deSade.9437:

Strifey.7215:

At the point I saw you were wearing mf gear I ignored everything else and reminded myself why I’m glad I never run pugs anymore.

This. Gods bless the guilds. But I’ll take note and make sure not to stumble upon the op in case I need a pug.

yeah not sure how this turned into a thread about avoiding pick up groups – apparently you two have had some bad experiences. I on the other hand have had some very good experiences. I’m not sure how you can stereotype all people who use magic find into a specific play style that you would like to avoid…I’m perplexed. Many generalizations are being made. But I trust those in your guild are not like me. Good luck out there.

deSade.9437:

Strifey.7215:

At the point I saw you were wearing mf gear I ignored everything else and reminded myself why I’m glad I never run pugs anymore.

This. Gods bless the guilds. But I’ll take note and make sure not to stumble upon the op in case I need a pug.

So. How’s the weather up there on your throne?