Guild Wars 2

Why is there religion in video games? Because, as humans, we are creators but we don’t create ex nihilo, we create after ourselves. Religion is a part of the human experience. Atheism itself is a religion. Why? There are no proofs around the existence of a god. Either way you choose, you are doing it by faith. Religion is not a problem in life, it’s simply a feature. And, God put atheists in to spice things up, as we see here.

I happen to be pretty anti-religious. My “spiritual” views are confusing and not all that “spiritual”.

Anyhow, that being said, while I avoid the topic of religion as much as I can in real life, I can honestly say that I enjoy it being in a video game.

My first MMO of all time was a 2D-pixel-based-game called Dark Ages by Nexon (now KRU). One of the main facets of the game was in fact religion. Each person would eventually have to choose the deity in which they wished the character to worship, because each character would inevitably die and need someone to “heal their scars” or they would want ports and such to other zones, etc.

People made the game what they wanted and actually had their own masses and such that discussed the in-game religions. There were also politics that were player-run entirely but that’s a discussion for another day (and trust me – it was fairly awesome).

So, I’ve personally had some terrific experiences with religion in MMO’s. I feel it adds depth to the character and the backstory of the race in general. I, being an Asura, don’t really have a religion per se. We believe in the theory or ideology of the Eternal Alchemy, but it’s not exactly a religion. However, the ideology definitely has gone into the making of my character’s overarching backstory.

So, anyhow, I digress. While I’m really anti-religion in the real world due to all the kitten-storms it creates, I am really, quite happy to have religion in a video game since at the end of the day, no one gives a kitten about any of, since it’s character-based. The only time you’ll see any animosity towards it, is probably in an RP situation, if that.

I am a Christian.

I know of a few guilds in this game that are full of Christians. Some even use these guilds as form of missionary work.

My names though says asI do things. Kross = the Cross. Lite = both the light of the Cross and the fact that I am lite with how I present the Cross to others.

I will not shove my believes on others nor do I expect other to shove their believes upon me.

If you ask I will tell. If you ask more I will tell more. I am not a missionary.

I believe your actions are your true sign of who you are. If you seek to destroy others happiness you are evil.
If you seek to help other to the point of going out of your way to do so makes you good.

Please note I did not say of the Devil or of God.

This is game. It is meant to leave the real world behind for a short time. Live your faith through actions. Not words.

Humanity has been praying to one diety or another since the days of living in caves. Worship of the unseen is most likely more firmly fixed in the racial meme than almost any other concept.

There has always been questioners throughout time…but by and large the greater part of the population has probably considered the possibility. So why not video games? Are they so different than any other grouping of humans?

As an atheist, I have no problem with religion being in the game, or with it being included in the cultures of any fictional universe. Given our real world’s history, the thousands of different faiths that still exist today, and good ol’ human psychology, it would actually be unbelievable to write a story set in a world with no religion at all. Unless you’ve established some practical, lore-based influence that would prevent religions from taking shape in any form — and I have a hard time imagining what that might be — the absence of faith, superstitions, or spiritual something would be unrealistic. People just don’t think that way.

As others have pointed out, having religions is a good device for fleshing out your fictional world’s cultures. That said, you don’t need to necessarily glorify it, or make a big deal about it.

If I do find one thing aggravating about how fictional religions are framed in general — and not just in GW2 — it’s that they almost always turn out to be absolutely, undoubtedly true. There’s no question that the 6 human gods exist. They have powers, they fuel the human racial abilities, and they partially manifest their influence through those statues and temples in Orr. With the norn nature spirits, I get the sense that those things are real as well — it’s not just “faith” we’re talking about, but knowledge. Aside from maybe the grawl (and I’d have to research that more to be sure), I can’t think of any group in the game that has an unfounded belief in something supernatural. Everybody’s gods and spirits are totally there, actively making stuff happen. Isn’t there anyone whose faith goes unrewarded?

Holyblesserx.7618:

for example the tournament master would say “I pray to the spirits of the wild…but they hardly answer” there would be other dialogue similar to this throughout the game but i was just curious as to why this is necessary in games .

Although this kind of comment has a religious theme its not really a religious comment.

The problem that games like GW2 has is that their game theme is to create a magical universe which we all can understand and relate to. Every nations history has stories of magic and gods and its this kind of folklore which fantasy games draw upon to create their magical universe for us to play in.

Famous fiction like Lords of the Rings and the epic game Dungeons and Dragons have essentially defined what classic fantasy actually is. And this fantasy universe has many themes of gods running through it, thats kinda one of the main basis for magic itself. And therefore u will see plenty of references to gods, prayer, worship, alters, icons, holy scripture etc.

U could even argue that the concept of Good and Evil is a religious creation, are any references to this overtly religious?

Wanderer.3248:

Einlanzer.1627:

Given that to some extent these games are both fantastical and anachronistic, this presence makes sense.

The only thing that bugs me a little bit is how the ‘atheist’ race is also the most militant and hostile race. It’s very likely it would be the opposite.

Many (but not all) members of a certain german political party prominent during WW2, who’s name gets filtered by these forums were atheists, and, of course, very militaristic. And many communists have been atheistic and militaristic – notably Joseph Stalin.

The Charr are kind of like kitten-Germany (See what what the forums do there).

Atheisim, and a lack of spirituality certainly became more common after the industrial revolution in western culture, when people started to realise science did a better job of explaining the natural world than religion did. So it’s not surprising that the industrialised Charr have been portrayed as atheists.

You are right when it came to communism, but when it came to Germany, they were not atheist I can tell you that much. They were actually fascist (except you know who) (after they commandeered the Socialist party), they believed in God & in the Aryan race. I’m a Christian and I even know that.

Fyrebrand.4859:

Aside from maybe the grawl (and I’d have to research that more to be sure), I can’t think of any group in the game that has an unfounded belief in something supernatural. Everybody’s gods and spirits are totally there, actively making stuff happen. Isn’t there anyone whose faith goes unrewarded?

The Searing-era Flame Legion-led charr. Look it up, that faith was a “path of inspiration” type racket where the Flame Legion shamans would use their magic and “favor of their gods” (read: we’re stronger than you and possess magic) to do whatever they liked.

Of course, their “gods” didn’t care about their worshippers at all and they were just tools to facilitate events. Or in the case of the Destroyers, simply something which existed . . .

I’m not sure the charr being atheist has anything to do with real world events or atheists.

Unlike a lot of real world atheists the charr didn’t lose their faith (or grow up without it right from birth) because they couldn’t see any evidence that their gods exist or thought that science did a better job of explaining things. They know for a fact their gods exist (you can even see some of them, the Destroyers, in-game and you can see their former gods the Titans in Gw1), they’ve just come to the conclusion that just because a being or race of beings is more powerful doesn’t make them worthy of worship.

As for the original question I’m an atheist and personally I don’t mind it at all when games, books etc. include religion. As other people have said it adds variety and another facet to characters and races. Sometimes it bothers me when a “fictional” religion is an almost exact copy of a real-world religion, especially a major one, with very minor changes to largely irrelevant details; like making constant references to the fact that your fictional martyr prophet was nailed to a tree instead of a cross because that makes the entire thing totally original and creative, even if in every single other way it’s an exact copy of a particular branch of Christianity. Not thinking of GW2 there, it’s a series of books but in the interest of being diplomatic I’ll omit the name.

I don’t understand why this is a problem, Guildwars 2 is a fictional world which includes various thing’s that are not necessarily true. The fact the game has Religion in it shouldn’t bother anyone; Because at the end of the day everything in this game is not an accurate description of real-life. The same question could be asked about any aspect of the game that people may not adhere to such as Magic.

The moderator said that we should stray away from our real-world view’s. So the fact that anyone is an Atheist or a Theist, should not be discussed here. The question by the OP was not: What “Religious” Ideology do you adhere too. It was: Why is it needed in video-games. And my simple answer too that is: It is not needed in Video-Games, but thing’s such as Magic or Science aren’t needed either.

P.S – The Charr are not Atheist; Rather they are Misotheist/Maltheist depending on the view of the actual Charr.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

The asura have the Eternal Alchemy, which is to me, similar to people who speak of ‘destiny’ or ‘a divine plan’.

To me it seems a lot like a ToE, theory of everything.

Raine.1394:

Why is there religion in video games?

Because realism. That, and having gods is a norm in the fantasy genre. We could do without realism but it would seem odd. I can’t imagine GW without religions.

Recycle.5493:

I’ll just leave these here.

That concept is core to Abrahamic religions, less so to others. None of the Gods in GW2 are like the god of Abraham.

Shard.4791:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

The asura have the Eternal Alchemy, which is to me, similar to people who speak of ‘destiny’ or ‘a divine plan’.

To me it seems a lot like a ToE, theory of everything.

Raine.1394:

Why is there religion in video games?

Because realism. That, and having gods is a norm in the fantasy genre. We could do without realism but it would seem odd. I can’t imagine GW without religions.

It actually is science and not religion. I believe their is an NPC exchange near the fountain in LA where an asura says her god is money and the other person said she thought their religion was some kind of alchemy and she replies that that is just science.

The only race that even has gods are Humans and the 5 (Kormir’s a star stealer so she doesn’t count) really do exist and just kind of took a vacation or whatever right as the whole world goes to kitten.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fyrebrand.4859:

Aside from maybe the grawl (and I’d have to research that more to be sure), I can’t think of any group in the game that has an unfounded belief in something supernatural. Everybody’s gods and spirits are totally there, actively making stuff happen. Isn’t there anyone whose faith goes unrewarded?

The Searing-era Flame Legion-led charr. Look it up, that faith was a “path of inspiration” type racket where the Flame Legion shamans would use their magic and “favor of their gods” (read: we’re stronger than you and possess magic) to do whatever they liked.

Of course, their “gods” didn’t care about their worshippers at all and they were just tools to facilitate events. Or in the case of the Destroyers, simply something which existed . . .

The Charr got the Searing Cauldron that nuked Ascalon from the Titans they worshiped before the events in prophecies.

Substance E.4852:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Fyrebrand.4859:

Aside from maybe the grawl (and I’d have to research that more to be sure), I can’t think of any group in the game that has an unfounded belief in something supernatural. Everybody’s gods and spirits are totally there, actively making stuff happen. Isn’t there anyone whose faith goes unrewarded?

The Searing-era Flame Legion-led charr. Look it up, that faith was a “path of inspiration” type racket where the Flame Legion shamans would use their magic and “favor of their gods” (read: we’re stronger than you and possess magic) to do whatever they liked.

Of course, their “gods” didn’t care about their worshippers at all and they were just tools to facilitate events. Or in the case of the Destroyers, simply something which existed . . .

The Charr got the Searing Cauldron that nuked Ascalon from the Titans they worshiped before the events in prophecies.

Right. But after the Titans got loose? Didn’t need the charr anymore, and later on when in the Realm of Torment, you can see just how little the Titans cared.

Fyrebrand.4859:

If I do find one thing aggravating about how fictional religions are framed in general — and not just in GW2 — it’s that they almost always turn out to be absolutely, undoubtedly true.

Yes, so true! If you saw The Avengers, for example, you have Captain America claiming that his god would never dress as funny as Thor or Loki. Buuuut Thor and Loki are demi-gods. So how does one explain their existence at all? Both the Christian and the Norse religions co-exist in the movie?

In the GW world we know the gods are real because we pray to their shrines and get blessings, if we’re a dervish we transform into them, and we visit their realms. So how did humans lose supremacy if their gods were real? Are all the religions real?

And then there’s this:

Raine.1394:

Atheism itself is a religion.

I will not get into this argument on the internet again. I will not get into this argument on the internet again. I will not get into this argument…

Like many others in the thread, I’d like to ask the counter question. Why not have religion in games? Regardless of what is or isn’t true in our reality, Tyria is a fictional reality. Why have dragons? Why not?

Ultimately any fiction needs to have elements we can relate to as humans. Otherwise what is their to motivate our interests.. How interesting would a story be with amorphous entities that had senses completely foreign that couldn’t be described in terms of our senses and motivations that seemed entirely alien. My guess is not very.

Conflict that we can relate to drives story, and religion ultimately is a story of creation and existence.. Regardless of whether its the Asuran Scientific take on the connectivity of all things as the workings of a giant machine. The human’s pantheistic mythology, The norn’s belief in spirits, the sylvari sense of creation by ideals, or the charr’s belief in survival of the fittest and that no diety is outside this heirarchy within which they strive to be top predator.

Honestly I think Arena Net did a really great job of exemplifying different possible views of reality, in a way that is both relate able and yet not directly confrontational to anyone’s real life personal belief. Whether in game or out, I honestly don’t see any huge differences in the various takes. They all seek to explain existence from a different cultural bias with differing methods. The end result of which is always the same.. Existence is. What else matters?

I think we should remove logic from video games. Although humans have an ability to reason, we often arrive at the wrong conclusion.

dinominator.9862:

I think we should remove logic from video games. Although humans have an ability to reason, we often arrive at the wrong conclusion.

This reminds me of a quote attributed to Winston Churchill.

“Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.”

True story.

Holyblesserx.7618:

snip

I appreciate a user called Holyblesserx questioning religion in-game. Thanks for a laugh.

Must say surprised this has not been closed, it is a interesting post to read in the graveyard hours.

My thoughts on religion in games let alone other forms of entertainment. They create rich environments for change and conflict, a reason/answer to the existence of magic (whether or not it has a quantifiable value), they help define our character/race/view of the game’s universe. On top of this they lead to great discussions like this and they let us take a step away from our daily lives.

PS: those extra credit videos do some great explaining for a 10min overview.

i didnt get the OP but hope this link can help?!

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Religions_of_Tyria

Religion is a big theme and can greatly add depth to a fictional world if used correctly. I think saying ‘I don’t much care for it, why is it needed in my games?‘, is similar to saying ’I don’t care for romance, why is it needed in my games?’.

I think ANet uses it well, especially as they don’t try to completely copy any current real-world religion like other games do.

Meret.5943:

Raine.1394:

Atheism itself is a religion.

I will not get into this argument on the internet again. I will not get into this argument on the internet again. I will not get into this argument…

But honestly, hes right, it is. If you label yourself atheist, it’s the same as labeling yourself as christian, muslim, wicca or whatever. You believe in something, or well, you are trying to prove that there are no gods. So its a form of religion a.k.a a belief.

Unlbelievers and agnostics is a different story. Unbelievers just dont believe, they dont get bothered by religion. Agnostics arent sure what they believe in, but there is something.

Atheists are trying to prove the non-exsistance of gods. I honestly dont see the point of atheism, let people believe in whatever gods they chose if that helps them through life. Why try and disprove what cant harm you? It’s not like it would stop wars and create peace if you one day actually manage to prove the non-exsistance of gods, we mankind, will still find things to bicker about and go to war over.

I agree with you slightly in some ways with how religious doesn’t need to be implemented into the game, but some games use it as a stylistic device to symbolize a broken society, or preview dark and/or sinister backgrounds of a society. Guild Wars 2 didn’t really use religion as much to do such as thing, where as a game like Bioshock Infinite used it PERFECTLY. Guild Wars 2 is an MMO though, it’s kind of hard to put a realistic sense of religion into a game like this.

SneakyErvin.3056:

Meret.5943:

Raine.1394:

Atheism itself is a religion.

I will not get into this argument on the internet again. I will not get into this argument on the internet again. I will not get into this argument…

But honestly, hes right, it is. If you label yourself atheist, it’s the same as labeling yourself as christian, muslim, wicca or whatever. You believe in something, or well, you are trying to prove that there are no gods. So its a form of religion a.k.a a belief.

Unlbelievers and agnostics is a different story. Unbelievers just dont believe, they dont get bothered by religion. Agnostics arent sure what they believe in, but there is something.

Atheists are trying to prove the non-exsistance of gods. I honestly dont see the point of atheism, let people believe in whatever gods they chose if that helps them through life. Why try and disprove what cant harm you?

Sorry but there’s major differences between religion and beliefs. I have lots of beliefs, but no religion. That’s because a religion has some sort of organization, rituals. It’s not just something you “believe”.

For example, no one requires atheists to attend atheist services. There are no atheist sins. We don’t have single book that defines what we think.

Science is based on experimentation and theory and scientific method. Those who believe in evolution, aren’t actually believing in something, they’re making an educated guess as to truth. Belief in evolution doesn’t require faith. In fact, Atheism has nothing at all do with with belief, so much as lack of belief. Atheists DO NOT believe in god. What they believe in could vary greatly from atheist to atheist.

i didn’t read the post but “Haapy Easter” from A-Net. Read the Box from SAB.

Wanderer.3248:

Einlanzer.1627:

Given that to some extent these games are both fantastical and anachronistic, this presence makes sense.

The only thing that bugs me a little bit is how the ‘atheist’ race is also the most militant and hostile race. It’s very likely it would be the opposite.

Many (but not all) members of a certain german political party prominent during WW2, who’s name gets filtered by these forums were atheists, and, of course, very militaristic. And many communists have been atheistic and militaristic – notably Joseph Stalin.

The Charr are kind of like kitten-Germany (See what what the forums do there).

Atheisim, and a lack of spirituality certainly became more common after the industrial revolution in western culture, when people started to realise science did a better job of explaining the natural world than religion did. So it’s not surprising that the industrialised Charr have been portrayed as atheists.

I was going to post this stuff as a reply, but you beat me to it. The Atheists have more skulls in a pile in the 20th Century then all the religions throughout history combined. Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro…………………..

SneakyErvin.3056:

Meret.5943:

Raine.1394:

Atheism itself is a religion.

I will not get into this argument on the internet again. I will not get into this argument on the internet again. I will not get into this argument…

But honestly, hes right, it is. If you label yourself atheist, it’s the same as labeling yourself as christian, muslim, wicca or whatever. You believe in something, or well, you are trying to prove that there are no gods. So its a form of religion a.k.a a belief.

Unlbelievers and agnostics is a different story. Unbelievers just dont believe, they dont get bothered by religion. Agnostics arent sure what they believe in, but there is something.

Atheists are trying to prove the non-exsistance of gods. I honestly dont see the point of atheism, let people believe in whatever gods they chose if that helps them through life. Why try and disprove what cant harm you? It’s not like it would stop wars and create peace if you one day actually manage to prove the non-exsistance of gods, we mankind, will still find things to bicker about and go to war over.

Aww, come on, man, I said I wasn’t going to get into this argument, and here you are, opening the door wide and inviting me in! lol now I’ll probably get the thread shut down. :/

I ask respectfully that you look up the actual definitions of atheist and agnostic, as I do not think they mean what you think they mean. The definitions you posted are as inaccurate as if I said, “Oh, Christians, they’re the ones who burn witches and think mental illness is really from demonic possession.”

I’m reminded of the analogies: if atheism is a religion, then bald is a hair color, off is a television channel, and not collecting stamps is a hobby.

Back on-topic…

The Charr are not atheists really, according to any definition. They acknowledge the presence of gods but choose not to worship them. They are more like anti-theists.

Can I suggest that we drop any discussion of real-world religions, especially which one(s) are right and what other peoples intentions are in expressing their beliefs before this thread gets locked? (Or more likely locked, deleted and banned from ever coming up again.)

Meret.5943:

Fyrebrand.4859:

If I do find one thing aggravating about how fictional religions are framed in general — and not just in GW2 — it’s that they almost always turn out to be absolutely, undoubtedly true.

Yes, so true! If you saw The Avengers, for example, you have Captain America claiming that his god would never dress as funny as Thor or Loki. Buuuut Thor and Loki are demi-gods. So how does one explain their existence at all? Both the Christian and the Norse religions co-exist in the movie?

In the GW world we know the gods are real because we pray to their shrines and get blessings, if we’re a dervish we transform into them, and we visit their realms. So how did humans lose supremacy if their gods were real? Are all the religions real?

Actually, I’m not sure about the wider Marvel universe but within the recent movies there has been absolutely no proof that the Christian God is real. Captain America believes He is, and it’s safe to assume a lot of other characters are also Christian, but that’s not proof.

It’s also made pretty clear that the Asguardians don’t consider themselves gods (Loki specifically says to Thor that the humans consider them gods, right before he decides to test the theory by dropping him out of a plane), they’re just a lot more powerful than typical humans and may have encouraged the idea in earlier cultures.

Meret.5943:

.Snip

No neither you or Vayne.8563 get what I’m saying.

Atheist = Convinced that there are no gods, many also seek to prove there are no gods. The certainty that there are no gods and the seeking to prove it makes it a belief, since no one fully knows, so all they can do is believe they are right and that there is proof. Just like religious people have no clue if what they believe in is true.

Agnostic = Believes that there is some form of higher being(s), but they arent sure what they really believe in. They havent found the religion that fits their way of thinking. Many never find a religion to settle with.

Monotheist = Dedicated to a religion of one single god. It doesnt mean other religions arent accepted, except for a few select ones we know of. Some even welcome people of other creeds into their holy houses, even if they arent there to praise their god.

Polytheists = Dedicated to a pantheon of gods (Norse, Greek/Roman, Native American, Hindu etc.). Often very open minded towards other religions, could be due to the fact they already worship many different gods.

Unbelievers/Non-Believers = They just dont believe, they are just regular people that dont care if someone is religious.

Atheists annoy me as much as bible thumpers and everyone else that tries to convince you that they are right.

And regarding Thor and Loki. They arent demigods in the myth, maybe in the Marvel stories, but not in the lore. A demigod is usually a supernatural being with one parent who is a god and the other a human. Thor is a pureblood aesir and Loki is of giants blood.

I’m the open minded kind myself, I see the possibility that there might be something higher. I see it as this, if there is one type of god, there are all types of gods. Every culture is different in some way, why shouldnt the gods be. I also dont bother with prayers, temples, offerings or anything else. If my gods are there on the final day so be it, if not, then atleast I didnt waste time in my life with unanswered prayers, being in temples or sacrificial offerings.

edit: This is also why I dont understand the OPs point of view. He/she just seems to try too hard to be an atheist when he takes it to an entertainment level. It’s ok as there is no pro or against propaganda, aslong as it’s fictional religions. I just wonder what movies, books, music or other games he avoids if he dislikes even fictional religion.

Most superheroes have god like powers and would most likely be described as gods if they were written a few hundred years back. Thor and Loki a prime example, perfectly fitting as superheroes/villains.

edit2: Missed the comment earlier in a post about Hitler germany. Hitlers party members were far from atheists, they were very much the oposite. It was a very christian, something germans could relate to, an easy way to get the people to hate jews. Then there was the Thule organization, some mumbojumbo mysticism department with a mission to find old treasures (yes like seen in Indiana Jones, Hellboy and so on) with special powers. Wagner was also a highly liked composer due to his works having germanic themes.

This has later crossed over into the white power movement in many countries, with the Faith, Folk and Family mindset, white christians are the only ones who should be allowed to live according to them, the rest are just scum of the earth. Like a european KKK, they just dont waste so many bed sheets. Only differance is, instead of the extra love for germanic myths, they see it as impure pagan filth, a mistake done by Hitler putting those faiths on par with christianity. Germanic symbols are common within some groups anyways, but those dont follow the FFF ways.

SneakyErvin.3056:

Agnostic = Believes that there is some form of higher being(s), but they arent sure what they really believe in. They havent found the religion that fits their way of thinking. Many never find a religion to settle with.

No, absolutely not. Agnostics don’t belief that their is a form of higher being(s), they are just convinced that that’s a question that probably will never be answered. Agnostics are not in search of a religion, they may or may not belief in gods or anything like that. In fact, most of them, at least in Europe (according to a survey from 2010) don’t belief in gods.

Oh and by the way: Saying that just cause atheists are convinced that their is no god makes atheism a belief is not very impartial.

/edit
And you forgot the rationalistic or modern satanism, a relatively fast growing group that basically thinks that their is no god and even if their would be it wouldn’t matter since mankind received the gift of free will.

nachtnebel.9168:

SneakyErvin.3056:

Agnostic = Believes that there is some form of higher being(s), but they arent sure what they really believe in. They havent found the religion that fits their way of thinking. Many never find a religion to settle with.

No, absolutely not. Agnostics don’t belief that their is a form of higher being(s), they are just convinced that that’s a question that probably will never be answered. Agnostics are not in search of a religion, they may or may not belief in gods or anything like that. In fact, most of them, at least in Europe (according to a survey from 2010) don’t belief in gods.

Oh and by the way: Saying that just cause atheists are convinced that their is no god makes atheism a belief is not very impartial.

No it can have many meanings. It’s very common for people to say that they are agnostic when they arent sure what they believe, when they are still searching. It also has a number of other meanings, regarding faith and not knowing for certain if there is or isnt a god. There are also agnosticism that claims god is beyond human comprehension, that he resides in a world we will never understand. There are also agnostic atheists.

And regarding the atheist thing. But it is nothing more than a belief since there is no proof for or against the exsistance of gods, so all both sides can do is believe.

When something isnt 100% sure and proved, it’s a belief. Religions are made up of belief systems. Atheism may not be religion, but it is a belief and some atheists religiously try to find proof that there are no gods.

Atheism in itself is a wide “label”, it reaches from someone that lacks faith to the kind that believes that gods dont exsist, the latter is a belief.

edit: Yes modern satanism is also a thing related to atheism, but its a belief still the same. They still have very diabolical rituals and something they call spiritfire, the black flame. Satan not being an entity but instead resides inside everyone, the primal force, instincts and the carnal. Something that goes far back to old paganism. It’s not theistic satanism, but it still has alot of rituals and spiritual beliefs, like believing there is a spirit afterall.

It would still matter if God exsisted even if he gave man free will, there is a little catch. If you arent godfearing and do as God wants to and live by his word, you can use the free will he gave you, but if you do (this is the catch) perdition awaits you for not following the word of God. It’s just like the omnipotent God test. Can God make a stone so heavy that he cant lift it?

Holyblesserx.7618:

I understand religion is a sensitive subject for many and being an atheist i don’t care much for it at all. Throughout the game I have noticed dialogue that catered for or against religion within the game realm and i was wondering why it is needed in video games? for example the tournament master would say “I pray to the spirits of the wild…but they hardly answer” there would be other dialogue similar to this throughout the game but i was just curious as to why this is necessary in games .

Culture and religion are intertwined, the depth and character needed to create this fictional world almost necessitated religion. It’s like wondering why the developers decided to add environmental diversity, different races, or unique architecture — it makes the world feel more rich and fleshed out.

i’m out of facepalms to give. the title alone made me nuke-facepalm myself.
but the discussion on here…it’s not even related to GW2 anymore…just a religious debate.

how can someone take religion within a video-game so seriously in the first place?

-GW2 is game. games are fun.
-religous debates often leads to hate and are pointless. pointless hate is not fun.
put them together! seriously? O.o

SneakyErvin.3056:

Atheists are trying to prove the non-exsistance of gods.

kitten that for a joke. Imagine trying to prove that every grawl god wasn’t real.

The burden of proof lies with whomever posits a supernatural agency as a hypothetical explanation for natural phenomena.

let’s bring some fun in this pointless out of control thread:

atheists are saying, if they can’t see it, it doesn’t exist.
christians counter with, “i can’t see air, so it doesn’t exist?”

i say: god promised to get rid of all evil.
odin promised that he’ll get rid of all ice giants.
i can’t see any ice giants, do you? :P

wauwi.9162:

let’s bring some fun in this pointless out of control thread:

atheists are saying, if they can’t see it, it doesn’t exist.
christians counter with, “i can’t see air, so it doesn’t exist?”

i say: god promised to get rid of all evil.
odin promised that he’ll get rid of all ice giants.
i can’t see any ice giants, do you? :P

how bout no. this was a good thread in the beginning and now its going to be closed. this “joke” brings nothing to the discussion

if you consider a religous debate on a videogame forum, which has stopped being about that video game since post #4 a good thread, then i’d agree.

this would (if even) fit more into the lore section.

to answer your question, alot norns (the generation of Eir, for example) stopped believing in the spirits of the wild and think they are made up by the elders. and some of them have doubts, they pray to them but get no answer. (they maybe have something else to do…uhm like protecting the wild animals? or getting kidnapped by bad guys? idk)
you’ll even meet and rescue a spirit of the wild pretty soon at your norn personal story.
as a ranger, you can even summon some.

so they aren’t “gods” ingame, just very strong and smart ghosts and keepers of the nature, having a religious debate over it becomes even more pointless.

I’m going to have to write “I will not get into a religious or political debate on a web forum” a hundred times on the chalkboard, aren’t I?

What is this…. I don’t even….

How is this thread still going?

<—-Atheist. Not sure how not believing in something is a belief system. (Sorry, just trying to speed up the process.)

^this

And this is why I bowed out when I did!

Tamaki Revolution.3548:

What is this…. I don’t even….

How is this thread still going?

<—-Atheist. Not sure how not believing in something is a belief system. (Sorry, just trying to speed up the process.)

But thats just it. Atheism is just too broad to be covered with one word and label. You say you are an atheist, but what kind of atheist are you? Several of the atheistic branches serve as beliefs, they are however not religions. Then there are some religions where its possible to be atheist and still part of it.

It’s just easy to label yourself, but are you really sure of what you are?

Holyblesserx.7618:

I understand religion is a sensitive subject for many and being an atheist i don’t care much for it at all. Throughout the game I have noticed dialogue that catered for or against religion within the game realm and i was wondering why it is needed in video games? for example the tournament master would say “I pray to the spirits of the wild…but they hardly answer” there would be other dialogue similar to this throughout the game but i was just curious as to why this is necessary in games .

Because it is an MMORPG? RPG = role playing game. The NPCs are only playing their role. Or would you prefer mobs, NPCs and all the other stuff to be just numbers and no background story, … would make the game boring.

SneakyErvin.3056:

Meret.5943:

.Snip

No neither you or Vayne.8563 get what I’m saying.

Atheist = Convinced that there are no gods, many also seek to prove there are no gods. The certainty that there are no gods and the seeking to prove it makes it a belief, since no one fully knows, so all they can do is believe they are right and that there is proof. Just like religious people have no clue if what they believe in is true.

Agnostic = Believes that there is some form of higher being(s), but they arent sure what they really believe in. They havent found the religion that fits their way of thinking. Many never find a religion to settle with.

Monotheist = Dedicated to a religion of one single god. It doesnt mean other religions arent accepted, except for a few select ones we know of. Some even welcome people of other creeds into their holy houses, even if they arent there to praise their god.

Polytheists = Dedicated to a pantheon of gods (Norse, Greek/Roman, Native American, Hindu etc.). Often very open minded towards other religions, could be due to the fact they already worship many different gods.

Unbelievers/Non-Believers = They just dont believe, they are just regular people that dont care if someone is religious.

Atheists annoy me as much as bible thumpers and everyone else that tries to convince you that they are right.

And regarding Thor and Loki. They arent demigods in the myth, maybe in the Marvel stories, but not in the lore. A demigod is usually a supernatural being with one parent who is a god and the other a human. Thor is a pureblood aesir and Loki is of giants blood.

I’m the open minded kind myself, I see the possibility that there might be something higher. I see it as this, if there is one type of god, there are all types of gods. Every culture is different in some way, why shouldnt the gods be. I also dont bother with prayers, temples, offerings or anything else. If my gods are there on the final day so be it, if not, then atleast I didnt waste time in my life with unanswered prayers, being in temples or sacrificial offerings.

edit: This is also why I dont understand the OPs point of view. He/she just seems to try too hard to be an atheist when he takes it to an entertainment level. It’s ok as there is no pro or against propaganda, aslong as it’s fictional religions. I just wonder what movies, books, music or other games he avoids if he dislikes even fictional religion.

Most superheroes have god like powers and would most likely be described as gods if they were written a few hundred years back. Thor and Loki a prime example, perfectly fitting as superheroes/villains.

edit2: Missed the comment earlier in a post about Hitler germany. Hitlers party members were far from atheists, they were very much the oposite. It was a very christian, something germans could relate to, an easy way to get the people to hate jews. Then there was the Thule organization, some mumbojumbo mysticism department with a mission to find old treasures (yes like seen in Indiana Jones, Hellboy and so on) with special powers. Wagner was also a highly liked composer due to his works having germanic themes.

This has later crossed over into the white power movement in many countries, with the Faith, Folk and Family mindset, white christians are the only ones who should be allowed to live according to them, the rest are just scum of the earth. Like a european KKK, they just dont waste so many bed sheets. Only differance is, instead of the extra love for germanic myths, they see it as impure pagan filth, a mistake done by Hitler putting those faiths on par with christianity. Germanic symbols are common within some groups anyways, but those dont follow the FFF ways.

I get what you’re saying. Except that atheists don’t share a common belief, so it can’t be a religion. A religion is a set of shared beliefs, not a set of disbelief in one single thing.

For example, a guy who’s an existentialist, doesn’t believe in anything and might also be said to be an atheist. Another atheist may believe in evolution. Another Athiest might believe there is no god, but doesn’t know anything about evolution.

You can’t characterize a religion as a lack of belief in something. Well you can, but it’s not really what the word religion means.

Even at it’s root re and legion. Legion means to bind together. Atheists aren’t bound together. They don’t generally have places where they meet, rituals they perform, or even a common book they read. Calling it a religion makes no sense.

Hi everyone,

This thread has derailed and it will be closed. While you kept the discussion very friendly and educated, the thread has gone from Religion in GW2 to a religios debate and this has no room in the forums.

Thanks for keeping it friendly. In the future, please try to keep on topic as much as possible.

Thanks for your understanding.