Guild Wars 2

Astralporing.1957:

lordkrall.7241:

Remember when people didn’t abuse unlimited spawns in instances to get massive amounts of loot?

Massive amounts of loot? You must be speaking about a different game, right?

It wasn’t massive amounts of loot, but it was a decent way to get loot from unending spawns. I had a char parked in the human starter instance back then to farm for the drops I got. All low level stuff but not bad gold for the time and dead easy to get as the respawn rate was high and the chance of dying was close to zero. All I had to do was stand in one spot and kill the mobs that spawned next to me. I didn’t do it much because it was extremely boring but I’m sure others spent hours there.

So yeah. They removed drops from the personal story and moved the rewards to the end.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Personally, I don’t see getting an ascended chest that has items I can’t use because of bad stats as a good drop, unless maybe it’s for the skins and that’s what you are thinking. I would rather they kept the same drop rate or maybe a little better and made the stats selectable. Then it would be a good drop. Most people are disappointed when they get an ascended chest and making a disappointing item drop more frequently isn’t the answer to the bad loot problem.

The +3 sword of Kittendom, was that from a gear progression game? Because it’s hard to have these items in a static gear game. I’m not even sure how they would do it in this game with its static gear and all the variety of stats that aren’t right for your build. How would they get equivalent items to the players on a consistent basis? Which imo, brings it back to cosmetics. If the skins drop frequently and are sellable, prices crash. If not sellable, the second one is worthless. If not desired, each account bound one is a bad drop. In each case people will complain about bad loot. In addition, with a high drop rate, people quickly enough get what they want, and after that the loot again is unwanted and bad.

The other problem I see is budget. Can ANet afford to pay its artists to make new skins and then give the skins away for free to keep up with player demand for good loot? This isn’t a subscription based game where they get your money each month. This is a “sell cosmetics to players” game. They would have to redo their economic basis to be handing out new free skins as an ongoing answer to complaints about bad loot.

I personally don’t see a way around the problems of frequent but cheap drops or frequent but account bound. Either path will have people calling the drops bad.

You make some fair points. It’s hard to predict the impact these changes would have on the community. For one, there will definitely be complaints. Hell, people were upset with the login reward changes because it coincided with changes to the daily system. I think more frequent Ascended drops, even with bad stats, can still be satisfying. For one thing, players will have at least one more thing to look forward to. Worst case scenario we get a gold coin at the vendor. Even in a best-case scenario where selectable stats are implemented I still believe the drop rate could use a slight increase.

See, the thing is I wouldn’t expect Anet to just make new stuff and ‘give it away’ to keep up with our demands. I’m suggesting that we get more of the old stuff, the ‘vanilla’ in-game weapons and armour. After all, we have had so much added as premium content (gem store and BLTC skins) , the more basic stuff can be added to more loot tables instead of being locked exclusively behind token systems or the mystic forge. Not such an increase in frequency that they become worthless, but enough so that we don’t keep getting boring exotic drops. Players ping exotic drops with no real sense of excitement because there’s stuff like ‘Arc’ and ‘X6-31’ beta that drops over again, along with the generic ones. I think most of us would be satisfied if the better looking weapons dropped, even if account bound for the sake of skins only.

Jahroots.6791:

You make some fair points. It’s hard to predict the impact these changes would have on the community. For one, there will definitely be complaints. Hell, people were upset with the login reward changes because it coincided with changes to the daily system. I think more frequent Ascended drops, even with bad stats, can still be satisfying. For one thing, players will have at least one more thing to look forward to. Worst case scenario we get a gold coin at the vendor. Even in a best-case scenario where selectable stats are implemented I still believe the drop rate could use a slight increase.

See, the thing is I wouldn’t expect Anet to just make new stuff and ‘give it away’ to keep up with our demands. I’m suggesting that we get more of the old stuff, the ‘vanilla’ in-game weapons and armour. After all, we have had so much added as premium content (gem store and BLTC skins) , the more basic stuff can be added to more loot tables instead of being locked exclusively behind token systems or the mystic forge. Not such an increase in frequency that they become worthless, but enough so that we don’t keep getting boring exotic drops. Players ping exotic drops with no real sense of excitement because there’s stuff like ‘Arc’ and ‘X6-31’ beta that drops over again, along with the generic ones. I think most of us would be satisfied if the better looking weapons dropped, even if account bound for the sake of skins only.

The thing is, I don’t think that will solve the problem in the long run, as people will quickly enough get the skins they want, and it causes problems in both the short and long run.

For example, making high level karma weapons as a drop. Karma is already considered a worthless currency with little to buy except karma skins and mystic forging karma items. If these drop commonly enough then this would devalue it even further. If it’s a very rare drop, then how can this make a difference to player perceptions of never getting anything good?

Making mystic forge crafting items drop. If the weapons drop frequently enough, then that impacts the prices of the mats needed to make them and the prices on the trading post of people crafting to make gold. It could also make the most expensive and rare ones less prestigious if Random Noob Player can get one when killing a low level champ. If they don’t drop frequently, then again, how are they going to make a difference to player perceptions.

I don’t have any answers myself, but when people start talking about increasing drop rates I didn’t think they’ve really considered how that would effect the prices of everything from the mats used to craft to the prices of the weapons in the trading post. /shrug. If everyone is happy with getting lots of skins that either are unsalable or only worth a few silver, then maybe that’s the way to go.

One thing that would make me a bit happier would be making the loot more ‘natural’. Raptors and birds should ONLY drop poultry meat and eggs, furry animals should ONLY drop hide and meat, fabrics should drop off nodes, like metal and wood (jute, cotton and linen could be plant nodes, wool, silk and gossamer could be critter clusters). Killing 10,000 pirates for a handful of wool (from bags, cause getting low level clothing drops just doesn’t happen) is just ARGH.

ShelBlackblood.7826:

Either we have lots of trolls here, or most of the ppl simply don’t get it.
Three easy examples:
1. Silverwaste Events -> No drops at all, maybe grey stuff
2. Personal Story enemies -> No drops
3. Unidentified Dyes -> Not dropping anymore, not from enemies nor from plants

Just to annoy some of the new players here: When I started GW2, I got my Abyss dye from a level 17 zentaur in Kessex Hills. Yes, there were times when you got good things from regular enemies.

Pretty much. I mean just an example. You complete personal story and kill Zhaitan. Zhaitan being the dragon that according to lore “an entire nation’s army couldn’t kill.” Raises a continent from the bottom of the ocean, and floods the world with zombie army. But when you kill him; this monster of unfathomable power, what do you get?

50 silver and a hat. Literally.

Captain Unusual.9163:

Good times. Wonder if we’ll ever see them again.

Yes, yesterday, the day before, two days earlier, and pretty much every day.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The thing is, I don’t think that will solve the problem in the long run, as people will quickly enough get the skins they want, and it causes problems in both the short and long run.

For example, making high level karma weapons as a drop. Karma is already considered a worthless currency with little to buy except karma skins and mystic forging karma items. If these drop commonly enough then this would devalue it even further. If it’s a very rare drop, then how can this make a difference to player perceptions of never getting anything good?

With an appropriate drop rate it will still take quite some time to collect all skins. Worried about karma? Then they could add more items to karma vendors.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Making mystic forge crafting items drop. If the weapons drop frequently enough, then that impacts the prices of the mats needed to make them and the prices on the trading post of people crafting to make gold. It could also make the most expensive and rare ones less prestigious if Random Noob Player can get one when killing a low level champ. If they don’t drop frequently, then again, how are they going to make a difference to player perceptions.

The entire point of improving loot is so that we can take some steps away from the ‘get gold, buy stuff’ type of game play and instead be rewarded a bit more for just playing normally. Bear in mind that I’m not suggesting an increase to the exotic drop rate, merely that we get more variety, so that your first thought on receiving an exotic drop isn’t how much it’s worth on the tp, because it might be something you actually want the skin for. And remember that there are dozens of skins in this game, with new ones added every 6 weeks or so. As is, all of the new skins are premium and the old ones just get more expensive. I think we have more than enough expensive, prestigious and hard to get items, and not nearly enough nice but accessible stuff. The game won’t suffer if some old items decrease in value a bit

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I don’t have any answers myself, but when people start talking about increasing drop rates I didn’t think they’ve really considered how that would effect the prices of everything from the mats used to craft to the prices of the weapons in the trading post. /shrug. If everyone is happy with getting lots of skins that either are unsalable or only worth a few silver, then maybe that’s the way to go.

Again, I’m in no position to speak with any authority either. I just want some nice surprises in my loot now and again. And imo, mat prices are not more important than satisfying game play.

Jahroots.6791:

I think ascended gear has had a long enough run as craft-only. I’m not suggesting that they rain from the sky, just set the drop rate significantly lower than exotics but higher than precursors. Someone who plays an hour or two daily should reasonably expect one or two of them every week. That wouldn’t diminish the need to craft, since most people will opt for a reliable approach anyway.

An hour or two daily and one or two every week? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I play a lot more than that with 200%+ MF and even exotics do not drop that often.

We’ll get pigs as flying mounts before that happens.

Khisanth.2948:

Jahroots.6791:

I think ascended gear has had a long enough run as craft-only. I’m not suggesting that they rain from the sky, just set the drop rate significantly lower than exotics but higher than precursors. Someone who plays an hour or two daily should reasonably expect one or two of them every week. That wouldn’t diminish the need to craft, since most people will opt for a reliable approach anyway.

An hour or two daily and one or two every week? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I play a lot more than that with 200%+ MF and even exotics do not drop that often.

We’ll get pigs as flying mounts before that happens.

You almost got ascended gear not to long ago. It was originally planned as a piece at the end of every month, but you had to log in every day. I’ll do without ascended. It’s the only reason to craft anyways and crafting in this game sucks.

When did they stop dropping loot?

Jahroots.6791:

I think more frequent Ascended drops, even with bad stats, can still be satisfying. For one thing, players will have at least one more thing to look forward to. Worst case scenario we get a gold coin at the vendor. Even in a best-case scenario where selectable stats are implemented I still believe the drop rate could use a slight increase.

Not really. See complaints about the piles of useless ascended rings from there.

I got a loot yesterday, maybe tomorrow I´ll get another.
Perhaps even a green? (°?°)

Khisanth.2948:

Jahroots.6791:

I think more frequent Ascended drops, even with bad stats, can still be satisfying. For one thing, players will have at least one more thing to look forward to. Worst case scenario we get a gold coin at the vendor. Even in a best-case scenario where selectable stats are implemented I still believe the drop rate could use a slight increase.

Not really. See complaints about the piles of useless ascended rings from there.

Yeah, but the rings are worth far less at vendor value. Weapons sell for 1g.

I don’t recall that being a thing. Still only get t6 mats as only valuable drops, same as its always been.

Jahroots.6791:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

The thing is, I don’t think that will solve the problem in the long run, as people will quickly enough get the skins they want, and it causes problems in both the short and long run.

For example, making high level karma weapons as a drop. Karma is already considered a worthless currency with little to buy except karma skins and mystic forging karma items. If these drop commonly enough then this would devalue it even further. If it’s a very rare drop, then how can this make a difference to player perceptions of never getting anything good?

With an appropriate drop rate it will still take quite some time to collect all skins. Worried about karma? Then they could add more items to karma vendors.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Making mystic forge crafting items drop. If the weapons drop frequently enough, then that impacts the prices of the mats needed to make them and the prices on the trading post of people crafting to make gold. It could also make the most expensive and rare ones less prestigious if Random Noob Player can get one when killing a low level champ. If they don’t drop frequently, then again, how are they going to make a difference to player perceptions.

The entire point of improving loot is so that we can take some steps away from the ‘get gold, buy stuff’ type of game play and instead be rewarded a bit more for just playing normally. Bear in mind that I’m not suggesting an increase to the exotic drop rate, merely that we get more variety, so that your first thought on receiving an exotic drop isn’t how much it’s worth on the tp, because it might be something you actually want the skin for. And remember that there are dozens of skins in this game, with new ones added every 6 weeks or so. As is, all of the new skins are premium and the old ones just get more expensive. I think we have more than enough expensive, prestigious and hard to get items, and not nearly enough nice but accessible stuff. The game won’t suffer if some old items decrease in value a bit

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I don’t have any answers myself, but when people start talking about increasing drop rates I didn’t think they’ve really considered how that would effect the prices of everything from the mats used to craft to the prices of the weapons in the trading post. /shrug. If everyone is happy with getting lots of skins that either are unsalable or only worth a few silver, then maybe that’s the way to go.

Again, I’m in no position to speak with any authority either. I just want some nice surprises in my loot now and again. And imo, mat prices are not more important than satisfying game play.

I think one problem is no clear agreement of what is “good loot” has ever been stated. Yours seems to be any skin that you don’t yet have, rarity and price is no consideration. (A position I also agree with by the way. I’m happy when I get any new drop, even if it’s only worth a few silver on the TP). But imo, when most people say good loot, they are saying, they like the way it looks, it’s something they can use, and it’s worth good gold on the trading post. If any one of these 3 aren’t true, then it’s no longer “good loot”, but bad loot.

Just look at the wardrobe. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of skins in there. Granted, a large number are not from drops but that still leaves a substantial amount that does. Yet apparently all these are not worth considering since people are still calling for more variety and better loot. That’s why I don’t think gutting the karma and the mystic forge system will work in the long run. If the available drops aren’t good enough then adding those only pushes the problem back for a while. It doesn’t solve it.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

You are abusing the word Troll. Becouse some players state the obvious it doesn’t mean they are Trolling the thread. If we would call everyone we disagree with a Troll then we would all be Trolling on these forums.

“They still drop loot. Why just yesterday I killed a Moa and got mangled talon, which I sold for 2 copper and put that towards my next big purchase.”
“I got a slab of poultry meat and 94 copper from the last moa i killed.”
“I usually only get eggs. Maybe I should hatch them!”
“I think mobs should drop precursors more often, like maybe once every 5 mobs.”
“As long as they stay salvageable, I dont see a problem with that.”
Sorry if I’ve seen any trolling in these comments. Maybe the writers were completely serious about what they wrote (joking here). However, I’m sorry if I offended anyone, lets say most ppl were just in a sarcastic mood or sth

0. Never did OP state that this was only about SW, LS, PS an Unidentified dyes. So yes, I remember I got loot worth more than 15g yesterday. Even more if I wanted to sell some other loot.

Please remember the 3 words I used “Three easy >examples<”. I can’t read the mind of our OP here, so I just mentioned 3 examples that came first to my mind when I thought about the OP’s statement. This was just my personal opinion. If someone can add other examples to that list (like Shivan with the Zhaitan battle), go ahead.

1. In SW there are no drops but all events rewards you with Crests wich you can buy loot bags with if you want to. You also get loot bags from event and alot of other stuff. It’s a way to make events more interesting than just for Karma and for fun.

I’m not against loot bags in general, but I know a lot of people who told me ingame that “no matter how high your MF is, if RNGesus hates you, you rarely find anything good in that bags”. With direct Mob loot, players who have a high MF, eat bufffood, use guild bonuses and banners get good chances to find more rare equipment or at least 1-2 exotics a day. If I’m lucky (running SW 12-16 hours on weekends), I get maybe 1 exotic and from 40+ loot bags each run, 1-2 rares. MF doesn’t apply here.

2. This was nerfed long ago becouse playersabused it to farm some instances. Better rewards have been given to compleate a PS and LS.

Sounds logical. The only thing that bothers me is the fact, that the PS awards are all almost the same for your lower characters (dyes, skins, stats,…). I’ve bought a second account not long ago and I’m not happy with the stuff my new 6 lvl 20-60 characters get; at least compared to my first 8 characters the individual equipment levels feel more unbalanced nowadays. I didn’t need the Auction for my first characters until lvl 80.

3. Well they do not drop anymore but you can actually farm them… You get Unidentified Dyes from Bag of loot ( http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bag_of_Loot_ ) I have about 25 Unidentified dyes in my bank and over 100 bags of loot (Yes I am a hoarder in this game).

Ok I didn’t know that, thanks for the hint! I might redo some LS parts when I get the time to do so.

4. What does it matter where you get your loot from? As long as we get loot from somewhere. Atleast I am not forced to farm in this game but I am happy to see that this stupid grinding the same mobs over and over again is comming to an end.

I’ve started grinding when the DryTop/SW maps were introduced (event grind is still grind) because it’s currently one of the best ways to make money, selling mats mostly since I rarely see good equipment. It’s a rather acceptable level of grind here, but if you want to get specific T6 mats you still have to grind mobs since they drop them more often. Having a lively Southsun zerg farming mats can be fun at times too. It’s just a matter of taste what kind of grinding a player likes and doesn’t. But I think this goes too oot here.

And I’m not calling you a fanboy or something :p it’s good we have different opinions and experiences so we can talk them over, or else this discussion would only result in a schit storm.

Joined a guildie for 10min to help with a Cursed Shore vista. Got a Giant Eye randomly (7g+).

Just a flesh wound.3589:

It could also make the most expensive and rare ones less prestigious if Random Noob Player can get one when killing a low level champ. If they don’t drop frequently, then again, how are they going to make a difference to player perceptions.

Prestige? What prestige? It’s either luck, grind or credit card.

Shivan.9438:

ShelBlackblood.7826:

Either we have lots of trolls here, or most of the ppl simply don’t get it.
Three easy examples:
1. Silverwaste Events -> No drops at all, maybe grey stuff
2. Personal Story enemies -> No drops
3. Unidentified Dyes -> Not dropping anymore, not from enemies nor from plants

Just to annoy some of the new players here: When I started GW2, I got my Abyss dye from a level 17 zentaur in Kessex Hills. Yes, there were times when you got good things from regular enemies.

Pretty much. I mean just an example. You complete personal story and kill Zhaitan. Zhaitan being the dragon that according to lore “an entire nation’s army couldn’t kill.” Raises a continent from the bottom of the ocean, and floods the world with zombie army. But when you kill him; this monster of unfathomable power, what do you get?

50 silver and a hat. Literally.

A hat with a very generic skin.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I think one problem is no clear agreement of what is “good loot” has ever been stated. Yours seems to be any skin that you don’t yet have, rarity and price is no consideration. (A position I also agree with by the way. I’m happy when I get any new drop, even if it’s only worth a few silver on the TP). But imo, when most people say good loot, they are saying, they like the way it looks, it’s something they can use, and it’s worth good gold on the trading post. If any one of these 3 aren’t true, then it’s no longer “good loot”, but bad loot.

Just look at the wardrobe. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of skins in there. Granted, a large number are not from drops but that still leaves a substantial amount that does. Yet apparently all these are not worth considering since people are still calling for more variety and better loot. That’s why I don’t think gutting the karma and the mystic forge system will work in the long run. If the available drops aren’t good enough then adding those only pushes the problem back for a while. It doesn’t solve it.

Good loot is useful or valuable. It’s nice to get exotics period, because you can always make some coin, but it’s far more satisfying to get something cool or interesting looking. There’s lots of skins I don’t even want, but would be happy to add to my wardrobe collection.

The problem with the wardrobe is the uneven distribution of skins. There’s a handful that are as common as dirt (and just as appealing) and dozens more than are virtually non-existent. I’m not calling for a gutting of the mystic forge, but we are don’t get many new in-game items. Everything added since Ambrite is BLTC, and historically these only increase in value over time. If all of the new skins are going to be inaccessible for the majority, then it stands to reason that some of the older ones get tossed into circulation.

The problem as I see it is just boredom. Drops are predictable and bland. You literally know what you are and are not going to get from different types of content. I think this is bad, because it funnels players toward the most profitable content (SW at the moment), and then directly to the TP to get what they want. It is a good thing that we can earn rewards this way, but the rest of the game suffers as a result. There’s a wide, wide world out there that is largely neglected because there’s nothing worthwhile in it. Just throwing stuff out there adds far more value to the game than is removed from the forge and karma vendors.

One thing I would like to hear is how other games handle the concept of good loot. Games like WoW, I assume, handle it with gear progression more than cosmetics. Since this game doesn’t have gear progression, then how does a game like WoW handle cosmetic progression? Those that play other games, how often do they add new, free skins to the loot table? Are those games subscription games where you pay them each month and they can afford to give away skins?

I remember it like it was yesterday….

uh.. because it… was… yesterday.

Exotic Cleric heavy armor off of a veteran treething in that clearing west of SB swamp.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

One thing I would like to hear is how other games handle the concept of good loot. Games like WoW, I assume, handle it with gear progression more than cosmetics. Since this game doesn’t have gear progression, then how does a game like WoW handle cosmetic progression? Those that play other games, how often do they add new, free skins to the loot table? Are those games subscription games where you pay them each month and they can afford to give away skins?

Most of the games I played (all subscription based at that time) did not work that way. Skins were earned by completing increasingly hard challenges (24 man raids, PVP accomplishments, either solo or group etc.). Skipping steps was usually impossible, since you needed the prior step’s gear to survive the next challenge.

City of heroes had thousands upon thousands of skins in it’s tailer shops, available for in game currency (earned by doing missions). Creating costumes was a game in its own, people spent hours designing. There were some cash shop unique skins, and a lot of skins you could earn by completing specific tasks.

Pre-CU Star Wars Galaxies… everything was crafted. Everything. All composite armor looked the same, apart from color (the stats now, THAT was a different story). The more unique stuff came in the form of player crafted outfits. LOTS of those, with lots of different colors to choose from. There was a handful of new recipes (Leia slave girl outfit, nuff said), but most was basic stuff, available as you levelled Tailoring.

EVE… has a failed cash shop no one uses because there’s nothing in it, and gives out some free skins every once in a while, which, since the game doesn’t really use avatars, most people don’t care about much.

I’ve never played a game before GW2 where outfits were a cash cow.

When the game first came out the game was full of loot, but it does seem that zone after zone, anywhere that has enemies that drop decent loot get updated so the enemies no longer drop any loot at all, this has happened pretty much across all high end zones,

This pushes people towards places like SW’s but that gets boring super fast, im not saying loot doesn’t drop as clearly the TP shows that it does, but it does drop far less than it used to,

I used to farm CS with 500% MF and get loot all over the place, 1 year on I get little to nothing, so much so I only log in for 5 mins to do dailies then log out,

I don’t foresee the LOOT issue getting better with HOT.

Broom.2561:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

One thing I would like to hear is how other games handle the concept of good loot. Games like WoW, I assume, handle it with gear progression more than cosmetics. Since this game doesn’t have gear progression, then how does a game like WoW handle cosmetic progression? Those that play other games, how often do they add new, free skins to the loot table? Are those games subscription games where you pay them each month and they can afford to give away skins?

Most of the games I played (all subscription based at that time) did not work that way. Skins were earned by completing increasingly hard challenges (24 man raids, PVP accomplishments, either solo or group etc.). Skipping steps was usually impossible, since you needed the prior step’s gear to survive the next challenge.

City of heroes had thousands upon thousands of skins in it’s tailer shops, available for in game currency (earned by doing missions). Creating costumes was a game in its own, people spent hours designing. There were some cash shop unique skins, and a lot of skins you could earn by completing specific tasks.

Pre-CU Star Wars Galaxies… everything was crafted. Everything. All composite armor looked the same, apart from color (the stats now, THAT was a different story). The more unique stuff came in the form of player crafted outfits. LOTS of those, with lots of different colors to choose from. There was a handful of new recipes (Leia slave girl outfit, nuff said), but most was basic stuff, available as you levelled Tailoring.

EVE… has a failed cash shop no one uses because there’s nothing in it, and gives out some free skins every once in a while, which, since the game doesn’t really use avatars, most people don’t care about much.

I’ve never played a game before GW2 where outfits were a cash cow.

So, it sounds like what you’re giving as examples, mostly crafted, or if drops then it was a subscription based game where you pay them every month (unlike this game where their money is largely coming from cosmetics).

City of Heroes. Earn currency to buy from Tailor shops. Sounds very similar to this game where you earn currency to buy what you want or you can craft.
Star Wars Galaxies: everything crafted. So does this mean there were no skin drops?

Most people haven’t played a game where skins are a cash cow since most games were subscription based and didn’t make their money off of cosmetics. Maybe if this game switches over to getting their money primarily through expansions it can afford to give away more free skins.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

City of Heroes. Earn currency to buy from Tailor shops. Sounds very similar to this game where you earn currency to buy what you want or you can craft.

No, the fee was for changing your look but the various pieces were by and large free to mix and max. Plus the cost varied based on your character’s level. You could also earn free or half price discounts which lowered the price even further.

Also the game’s money supply spun out of control once they introduced crafting and the consignment shop. The tailor cost never changed from launch so in the last few years the cost was trivial as player had 100s of millions when at launch 100K at max level was a lot. Even full cost total change was like sofa cushion money.

To me, “good loot” is any drop that is useful to my character(s). Unfortunately, 90% of the loot in GW2 is either:

Merchant fodder
Salvage fodder

Crafting materials are about the most useful things monsters drop, but without a reliable method of farming specific materials, it becomes more efficient to farm gold, and buy the materials/finished item from the trading post.

Behellagh.1468:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

City of Heroes. Earn currency to buy from Tailor shops. Sounds very similar to this game where you earn currency to buy what you want or you can craft.

No, the fee was for changing your look but the various pieces were by and large free to mix and max. Plus the cost varied based on your character’s level. You could also earn free or half price discounts which lowered the price even further.

Also the game’s money supply spun out of control once they introduced crafting and the consignment shop. The tailor cost never changed from launch so in the last few years the cost was trivial as player had 100s of millions when at launch 100K at max level was a lot. Even full cost total change was like sofa cushion money.

At any rate, what he’s describing doesn’t sound like a drop from the game, but crafting unless I’ve misunderstood. and it’s drops that are being complained about in this game.

while i do miss farming Jormag adds for corrupted lodestones and T6 mats…or certain “defend” story/ open world instances in Orr, it was probably best for the economy and game that stalling or deliberately failing events/instances was removed from game.

honestly, as great as some of the old farm events were, you can get almost asmuch just zerging silverwastes and digging up chests………..so farming loot is there if you want it….it just doesn’t rely on failing /stalling events

Nice to see the same ol’ peeps doing what they do…………..

That aside…it would be nice to obtain loot that doesn’t need to be converted to this or that. Less steps to making it useful.

Quarktastic.1027:

To me, “good loot” is any drop that is useful to my character(s). Unfortunately, 90% of the loot in GW2 is either:

Merchant fodder
Salvage fodder

Crafting materials are about the most useful things monsters drop, but without a reliable method of farming specific materials, it becomes more efficient to farm gold, and buy the materials/finished item from the trading post.

Funny thing, is that this was how GW1 played out.

. . . no, really.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Jahroots.6791:

… I’m not suggesting that they rain from the sky, just set the drop rate significantly lower than exotics but higher than precursors. Someone who plays an hour or two daily should reasonably expect one or two of them every week. That wouldn’t diminish the need to craft, since most people will opt for a reliable approach anyway.

You are aware the precursors have the same drop rate as exotics yeah? The odds of getting one are much lower, but since they are exotic, they are on the exotic drop table.

1 or 2 ascended drops per week for playing 1-2hrs a day!? Crazy. Look how much time it would take you to farm the materials to craft one piece, add up the amount of mobs killed to get the materials, then divide 100 by that amount. That should be the drop rate in a percentage chance per mob kill. It is probably already higher than that.

Sorry, can’t agree. Why? Because after I win the Asc. drop lottery, I have to also win the desirable prefix lottery.

http://i.imgur.com/ALl9ENJ.png

ShelBlackblood.7826:

“They still drop loot. Why just yesterday I killed a Moa and got mangled talon, which I sold for 2 copper and put that towards my next big purchase.”
“I got a slab of poultry meat and 94 copper from the last moa i killed.”
“I usually only get eggs. Maybe I should hatch them!”
“I think mobs should drop precursors more often, like maybe once every 5 mobs.”
“As long as they stay salvageable, I dont see a problem with that.”
Sorry if I’ve seen any trolling in these comments. Maybe the writers were completely serious about what they wrote (joking here). However, I’m sorry if I offended anyone, lets say most ppl were just in a sarcastic mood or sth

Sorry about the first part, as it actually is I who should say sorry.

I’m not against loot bags in general, but I know a lot of people who told me ingame that “no matter how high your MF is, if RNGesus hates you, you rarely find anything good in that bags”. With direct Mob loot, players who have a high MF, eat bufffood, use guild bonuses and banners get good chances to find more rare equipment or at least 1-2 exotics a day. If I’m lucky (running SW 12-16 hours on weekends), I get maybe 1 exotic and from 40+ loot bags each run, 1-2 rares. MF doesn’t apply here.

About MF, I have never bothered about MF anyway as it does so little. I may not have got better loot from SW but I have got more money from my once a day doing SW events from start to last boss, than from doing other stuff in the game (Do not count real farming/grinding as I do not do that in that manner).

Sounds logical. The only thing that bothers me is the fact, that the PS awards are all almost the same for your lower characters (dyes, skins, stats,…). I’ve bought a second account not long ago and I’m not happy with the stuff my new 6 lvl 20-60 characters get; at least compared to my first 8 characters the individual equipment levels feel more unbalanced nowadays. I didn’t need the Auction for my first characters until lvl 80.

Yea it is rather crap you get from doing the PS but before NPE the PS rewards was realy crappy rewards. Now you atleast get some loot bags too. Am I wrong? I havent played PS that much after NPE. About leveling I have the oposite experience. I have though played one character with the NPE from 1-80 and I used TP once at level 50 becouse I fealt I wanted to be alittle better and at level 80 ofc, but from the loot from just playing both from exploring and PS I got enough gear to be able to handle the content that was ahead of me. Compaired to the other 9 characters i leveled to level 80 before NPE where I bought gear each 10/15 levels to be able to handle the content that was before me. Could be that I wasn’t as good then as I am now but I do not beleave so.

I’ve started grinding when the DryTop/SW maps were introduced (event grind is still grind) because it’s currently one of the best ways to make money, selling mats mostly since I rarely see good equipment. It’s a rather acceptable level of grind here, but if you want to get specific T6 mats you still have to grind mobs since they drop them more often. Having a lively Southsun zerg farming mats can be fun at times too. It’s just a matter of taste what kind of grinding a player likes and doesn’t. But I think this goes too oot here.

Well for my personal opinion I can go to Dry Top or Silverwastes for an hour or so and do different events and find enjoyment in that. I do it mostly for fun, if I don’t enjoy it I don’t do it. But rewards is needed too, if I wouldn’t get anything from it I might not have done it iether. Anyway as I do events for about an hour I don’t do the events over and over the same day and I do not get bored and I don’t see it as a shore. But let’s say that crest where to be dropped from enemies, then most players would go to an event where most enemies spawns and do that over and over again and also try to make the event never to end or so it activates again as fast as possible (We have been there before in Orr and Shiverpeaks havent we?). Then there I come and I wanna do all the events on the map and I get totally hated becouse I troll the farmers and I am a “bad word” and I should farm with the blobb of players if I should be there and so on. No, I don’t want to farm. I want to play a game to enjoy it.

I hope I stayed on topic.

And I’m not calling you a fanboy or something :p it’s good we have different opinions and experiences so we can talk them over, or else this discussion would only result in a schit storm.

Thanks and I agree.

To your whole post I say: Nice response I don’t think I can top that :P

I remember guild wars1 and the loot, now that was loot. This game has nothing like it :/

aspirine.6852:

I remember guild wars1 and the loot, now that was loot. This game has nothing like it :/

Yeah. It did have good loot. The problem was, selling it. No one ever seemed to want my low level greens, my Mallyx longbow, my Totem axe, or any of the whole inventory worth of green weapons I accumulated over the years. I stood in Kamadon for ages advertising my totem axe. Not even a nibble.

So it was all good loot, but unsalable due to the lack of a trading post. /shrug. It was nice getting it, but ultimately they were only worth the vendor price.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Broom.2561:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

One thing I would like to hear is how other games handle the concept of good loot. Games like WoW, I assume, handle it with gear progression more than cosmetics. Since this game doesn’t have gear progression, then how does a game like WoW handle cosmetic progression? Those that play other games, how often do they add new, free skins to the loot table? Are those games subscription games where you pay them each month and they can afford to give away skins?

Most of the games I played (all subscription based at that time) did not work that way. Skins were earned by completing increasingly hard challenges (24 man raids, PVP accomplishments, either solo or group etc.). Skipping steps was usually impossible, since you needed the prior step’s gear to survive the next challenge.

City of heroes had thousands upon thousands of skins in it’s tailer shops, available for in game currency (earned by doing missions). Creating costumes was a game in its own, people spent hours designing. There were some cash shop unique skins, and a lot of skins you could earn by completing specific tasks.

Pre-CU Star Wars Galaxies… everything was crafted. Everything. All composite armor looked the same, apart from color (the stats now, THAT was a different story). The more unique stuff came in the form of player crafted outfits. LOTS of those, with lots of different colors to choose from. There was a handful of new recipes (Leia slave girl outfit, nuff said), but most was basic stuff, available as you levelled Tailoring.

EVE… has a failed cash shop no one uses because there’s nothing in it, and gives out some free skins every once in a while, which, since the game doesn’t really use avatars, most people don’t care about much.

I’ve never played a game before GW2 where outfits were a cash cow.

So, it sounds like what you’re giving as examples, mostly crafted, or if drops then it was a subscription based game where you pay them every month (unlike this game where their money is largely coming from cosmetics).

City of Heroes. Earn currency to buy from Tailor shops. Sounds very similar to this game where you earn currency to buy what you want or you can craft.
Star Wars Galaxies: everything crafted. So does this mean there were no skin drops?

Most people haven’t played a game where skins are a cash cow since most games were subscription based and didn’t make their money off of cosmetics. Maybe if this game switches over to getting their money primarily through expansions it can afford to give away more free skins.

Well, in CoH cash was really easy to come by, and you also got tailor shop tokens by the handfuls (good for a full redesign). I can’t remember actually PAYING for a new costume. You also had 4 costume slots per character, and multiple costume contests per day, so you might say it was a pretty important part of gameplay.

Star Wars Galaxies was, before they literally nerfed it to death a game where almost everything was crafted. Player housing, city buildings, clothes, food, armor, medicine, buffs, weapons, pets, furniture… you name it. Very rarely, a weapon with DOT (damage over time) would drop, but other that that, all drops were either special crafting materials or trash loot. All COMMON crafting materials came from resource spawns (not nodes, fields of e.g. a certain type of copper; you had to find a place with a good percentage of yield, then place a harvester). There were no skin drops, since there were hundreds of skins available from your Tailor crafter. Who would typically have their own in-game store (exactly as it sounds) with vendors displaying their wares. There was also an image designer, who could remodel your body for a fee (another player craft).

But no, no skin drops, because there was no need… each of the hundreds of skin available in game, in both these games, could be dyed literally hundreds of ways. And yes, these were sub games. But honestly, 15$ a month is nothing compared to what I hear people spend on the gem store on a monthly basis, and for most sub games it did mean regular free updates/expansions.

Behellagh.1468:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

City of Heroes. Earn currency to buy from Tailor shops. Sounds very similar to this game where you earn currency to buy what you want or you can craft.

No, the fee was for changing your look but the various pieces were by and large free to mix and max. Plus the cost varied based on your character’s level. You could also earn free or half price discounts which lowered the price even further.

Also the game’s money supply spun out of control once they introduced crafting and the consignment shop. The tailor cost never changed from launch so in the last few years the cost was trivial as player had 100s of millions when at launch 100K at max level was a lot. Even full cost total change was like sofa cushion money.

Don’t forget the tailor shop tokens. I totally forgot where I got them, but still had over 90 when the game died. Hadn’t paid for the tailor in years.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

aspirine.6852:

I remember guild wars1 and the loot, now that was loot. This game has nothing like it :/

Yeah. It did have good loot. The problem was, selling it. No one ever seemed to want my low level greens, my Mallyx longbow, my Totem axe, or any of the whole inventory worth of green weapons I accumulated over the years. I stood in Kamadon for ages advertising my totem axe. Not even a nibble.

So it was all good loot, but unsalable due to the lack of a trading post. /shrug. It was nice getting it, but ultimately they were only worth the vendor price.

Only the beginning the greens were being sold. In the end the real loot was the nicer skins with the good stats on them. And lots of vanity items, I didnt mind because you could farm those.

Quarktastic.1027:

To me, “good loot” is any drop that is useful to my character(s). Unfortunately, 90% of the loot in GW2 is either:

Merchant fodder
Salvage fodder ……………

Both of those are indirect ways of of farming gold to buy what you need. I agree the loot in GW2 doesn’t really give you anything good directly but when you salvage and sell mats, merchant what isn’t worth salvaging it adds up pretty quick.

Another trick is to place a sell order on the mats you drop and place a buy order for those same mats at 16%-20% less . You can make a profit and keep your inventory full. Not always doable due to the market but definitely worth the effort.

Note to those who don’t believe in MF. While it won’t drastically increase your chances of dropping a precursor. The increase in quality drops (t6 mats, green/yellow gear, exotics) you get is quite substantial. If you are complaining about drop rates but haven’t pursued increasing your MF then you are at fault.

aspirine.6852:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

aspirine.6852:

I remember guild wars1 and the loot, now that was loot. This game has nothing like it :/

Yeah. It did have good loot. The problem was, selling it. No one ever seemed to want my low level greens, my Mallyx longbow, my Totem axe, or any of the whole inventory worth of green weapons I accumulated over the years. I stood in Kamadon for ages advertising my totem axe. Not even a nibble.

So it was all good loot, but unsalable due to the lack of a trading post. /shrug. It was nice getting it, but ultimately they were only worth the vendor price.

Only the beginning the greens were being sold. In the end the real loot was the nicer skins with the good stats on them. And lots of vanity items, I didnt mind because you could farm those.

Yeah. After a while I had all my chars with green weapons. Most were easy enough to get. Take your NPC team and repeatedly go in the instance and kill the boss until he dropped his green weapon.

But could it work in this game with the worldwide trading post? Unless they made them account bound then everyone farming the bosses and posting their Green weapons would quickly make the majority of those drops no better than this game’s exotics, some of which have very nice skins also.

I’m not so sure that it’s possible to have a game with good loot when the game has a worldwide trading post with all the game’s players posting their drops. If this game didn’t have a trading post then that exotic you get would immediately be a good drop since it would be so rare and hard to get.

Broom.2561:

Behellagh.1468:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

City of Heroes. Earn currency to buy from Tailor shops. Sounds very similar to this game where you earn currency to buy what you want or you can craft.

No, the fee was for changing your look but the various pieces were by and large free to mix and max. Plus the cost varied based on your character’s level. You could also earn free or half price discounts which lowered the price even further.

Also the game’s money supply spun out of control once they introduced crafting and the consignment shop. The tailor cost never changed from launch so in the last few years the cost was trivial as player had 100s of millions when at launch 100K at max level was a lot. Even full cost total change was like sofa cushion money.

Don’t forget the tailor shop tokens. I totally forgot where I got them, but still had over 90 when the game died. Hadn’t paid for the tailor in years.

“You could also earn free or half price discounts …”

Yeah, I had over 100 on my main. What can I say, stuck with a look that worked.

I probably can’t really add much to this debate, since I got an exotic from an icebrood wolf in Wayfarer Foothills the other day* <.<

*No idea where he must have been carrying it

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Quarktastic.1027:

To me, “good loot” is any drop that is useful to my character(s). Unfortunately, 90% of the loot in GW2 is either:

Merchant fodder
Salvage fodder

Crafting materials are about the most useful things monsters drop, but without a reliable method of farming specific materials, it becomes more efficient to farm gold, and buy the materials/finished item from the trading post.

Funny thing, is that this was how GW1 played out.

. . . no, really.

shh They can’t handle the truth!

aspirine.6852:

I remember guild wars1 and the loot, now that was loot. This game has nothing like it :/

Average GW1 run loot: 8 worthless whites, 4 different types of worthless trophies, and maybe 2 blues and a purple if you were lucky. Yeah. Absolutely nothing like what we have now.

Sariel V.7024:

aspirine.6852:

I remember guild wars1 and the loot, now that was loot. This game has nothing like it :/

Average GW1 run loot: 8 worthless whites, 4 different types of worthless trophies, and maybe 2 blues and a purple if you were lucky. Yeah. Absolutely nothing like what we have now.

Pretty much. Although, pretty much all trophies could be salvaged into mats. They might not be mats you need, but they were still salvageable, which is more than you can do with trophies in GW2.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

But could it work in this game with the worldwide trading post? Unless they made them account bound then everyone farming the bosses and posting their Green weapons would quickly make the majority of those drops no better than this game’s exotics, some of which have very nice skins also.

This is already happening. The Embroidered Coin Purse (darling of the Silverwastes farm) has a proclivity for dropping five particular weapon skins:

• Arc
• Bonetti’s Rapier
• Rockweed Spire
• Cutthroat Caller
• Impaler

Bonetti’s shows it best, but they all follow a basic pattern: a spike in price around September followed by a hard drop by November. Bonetti’s in particular is tied to the ever popular Superior Sigil of Bloodlust , which also took a dive around November. The increase in supply of Bonetti’s Rapiers was quickly counterbalanced by players salvaging them for the Sigil. Supply increased, demand and prices fell.

The niche of the GW1 green is “named weapon, max stats with interesting skin, dropped by one particular boss (or set of creatures in DoA)”. Exotic weapon drops are the GW2 equivalent.