Guild Wars 2

Solandri.9640:

Yeah, Tybalt was great. He’s just “too much” comic relief because there’s so little of it in the rest of the game (mostly one-liners on scattered NPCs). I picked the Order of Whispers my first run-through and was really disappointed he was killed off.

I also really liked the Norn story with the stolen “Charosse” (don’t know the correct english name, its a Charr Tank) since that was also maybe a little more comic fun

I feel like there was a lot of misused potential in the personal story.

Personally, I’m rather neutral about Trahearne. I don’t loathe him the way a lot of people do, but I certainly understand the reasons for which he is disliked.

My analysis is that he filled too many roles all at once, and that some were mutually exclusive. I’m fine with him being the scholar that is able to cure the blight and purify orr. He was withdrawn, cynical, and stoic, fitting of that role.

A man with those qualities does not act the charismatic leader. The role of leader and general belonged to another character. He was also the man with all the connections- somehow able to get not only all of the orders to cooperate with raising an army together, but also able to get the leaders of the five races to sign on as well. A tough task considering he is proposing building an army like none that has been ever seen and a lot of politicians would not be particularly thrilled about that. Again, this should have been another character’s role, and easily a good eight to ten missions of personal story.

And then there was the child of destiny subplot, with visions from the pale tree. With everything else Trahearne is taking on, this more than anything else will push a player into asking himself “Why am I even here? I don’t really have any part in this story other than as a monkey to get things done.” This is not how the medium through the story is told (the POINT OF VIEW) should be made to feel for half the storyline.

The main character of the story needs to feel like he’s a necessary part of what makes the storyline work in order to be believable in that role. However, Trahearne does his job too well, so there really isn’t the sense that the main character is needed for events to progress properly in his own story. This is why it fails.

Another problem: When Trahearne makes the scene, the realtionship with the PC and other NPCs becomes far less invested. While some of the previous ones from older storylines make appearances here and there, and this is appreciated, they typically have a very minor role in things. Trahearne calls in a lot of friends with whom you have limited dialogue so you don’t get to know them quite the same way as say, Tybalt, or Lord Faren. It would not be unreasonable to change some of these so that instead of having Trahearne calling in favors from every boy and his dog, the PC can suggest, “I know a guy for that.” It would go a long way toward making the player feel more invested and giving more merit to their choices of branching paths during the early parts of the story.

Also maybe wouldn’t hurt to have the PC’s “mentor” character from Destiny’s Edge make a few more appearances here and there in the personal story missions. Sure, they show up in the story mode for the various dungeons and at the very end, but for how much their guidance is played up in the early missions, they hardly ever make an appearance after you join your order.

This, for example, would be a nice touch. After Claw Island the PC is very demoralized- they just lost a close friend and at the same time they have to come to terms with their first real taste of the war against the dragons. They seek out their mentor from Destiny’s Edge hoping for guidance and a way to cope with their recent losses- only to find that the mentor has their own problems. Over the course of a mission or two, they help their mentor overcome some of his/her personal hang ups while being able to come to terms with their own. Then after that has been concluded they part ways as equals.

Simple to do, uses existing characters, works naturally with the story, and gives us insight into other characters as well as our own.

And I’ve begun to ramble…

To the OP…You are obviously doing sth wrong…I played a full campaign with a friend no problem. It always counted progress except once at one mission that glitched, but is it. The fact is that story mission are actually cooperative if you plyed them with other people. didn’t get the progress promt?

Asmodeus.5782:

anzenketh, exactly: up until Claw Island most storylines are just fine, some even brilliant (Charr Blood Legion!). It all falls apart when they get smashed together and we get the phlegmatic shrub as a commander.

I actually don’t think the problem is Trahearne as a character. A lot of players place blame on him when he is not the problem. I actually enjoy his character. The problem is the transition. We are not given emotional reason to care for him as a commander. He is just someone that our mentors respected but is just a scholar. They tried by attempting the transition from scholar to commander but failed as he did not prove himself. We were not given a good enough reason to accept his lead and care for him. Even though that is what the second half of the story is about.

Sometimes I feel that the true personal story takes place in the dungeons for the second half of the personal story. This is where the character development takes place. That is also why on my play-though try to complete the dungeons when I am at level for them and do the personal stories at the level.

Kyrel.8942:

I actually like the Personal Story.

My only qualms is that it can conflict with the Living World making things weird like LA.

I also in general like the Personal Story. Enough that I still plan on playing all of the interactions. Even to the level 80 story steps.

I hope that they continue the Personal Story. The lack of the cut-scene to ingame cutscene will help the immersion and allow them to do better storytelling and less like a cheap play with no props. I am glad they scraped that idea.

It is a bit jarring that we are defending a city that is already destroyed. This is part of the reason why I really hope they re-build LA.

Beldin.5498:

Azrael.4960:

(thought Tybalt was too much comic relief for anyone to take seriously)

But Tybald was simply fun. I would have followed him 100 times more likely through the end of the story than Mr. “this won’t end well” Trahearne.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU9H7zaD6zs

I understand why they have him a bit under powered in actual play this is acceptable. Otherwise it would be too easy like the human commoner first 10 levels. At least I do not have to rez him all the time like a do Logan. But this is exactly what I mean by the transition to Trahearne did not work well. A lot of players have no respect for him because he does not feel like a hero alongside us.

I think the problem was they tried so hard to make it feel like our story that they crippled the ability for us to respect the commander of the Pact. If they gave Trahearne some Heroic cut-scene a few times to show his progression from scholar to commander then I think people would like him a lot better.

anzenketh.3759:

I actually don’t think the problem is Trahearne as a character. A lot of players place blame on him when he is not the problem. I actually enjoy his character. The problem is the transition. We are not given emotional reason to care for him as a commander. He is just someone that our mentors respected but is just a scholar.

Of course nobody would have a problem if he was just another NPC that helps us now and then. The problem is that some boring character that you mostly never have heared of before suddenly steps into the light and everybody knows him and respects him and he suddenly is the big leader of all.

They could also instead just take the NPC where you buy your salvages kits and promote him to be the new high commander .. would have maybe the same effect

Then of course the other thing is, that Orr also is just boring and depressing, and with the introduction of Trahearne at the same time all you have to do now is kill undeads and even more undeads in the depressing Orr zones and hear his “this won’t end well” as comment all the time

GummiArms.5368:

I feel like there was a lot of misused potential in the personal story.

Personally, I’m rather neutral about Trahearne. I don’t loathe him the way a lot of people do, but I certainly understand the reasons for which he is disliked.

Many hate him for stealing credit, which never happens.

A man with those qualities does not act the charismatic leader. The role of leader and general belonged to another character. He was also the man with all the connections- somehow able to get not only all of the orders to cooperate with raising an army together, but also able to get the leaders of the five races to sign on as well. A tough task considering he is proposing building an army like none that has been ever seen and a lot of politicians would not be particularly thrilled about that. Again, this should have been another character’s role, and easily a good eight to ten missions of personal story.

We really don’t know how much the actual nations put forth for the effort.

And then there was the child of destiny subplot, with visions from the pale tree. With everything else Trahearne is taking on, this more than anything else will push a player into asking himself “Why am I even here? I don’t really have any part in this story other than as a monkey to get things done.” This is not how the medium through the story is told (the POINT OF VIEW) should be made to feel for half the storyline.

I never felt like a lackey, considering how much praise is laid at your character. Your character shows a chunk of leadership as well, as YOUR character is the one who suggests the Pact to the orders first.

The main character of the story needs to feel like he’s a necessary part of what makes the storyline work in order to be believable in that role. However, Trahearne does his job too well, so there really isn’t the sense that the main character is needed for events to progress properly in his own story. This is why it fails.

Trahearne is good at being the leader because he asks for advice and gets help, not natural talent. Introverted people can become strong leaders once placed into a spot to do so in real life.

Another problem: When Trahearne makes the scene, the realtionship with the PC and other NPCs becomes far less invested.

I’ll agree with this only on the sense it’d have been nice for the characters from the previous/early stages of the PS appear more often.

anzenketh.3759:

I actually don’t think the problem is Trahearne as a character. A lot of players place blame on him when he is not the problem. I actually enjoy his character. The problem is the transition. We are not given emotional reason to care for him as a commander. He is just someone that our mentors respected but is just a scholar. They tried by attempting the transition from scholar to commander but failed as he did not prove himself. We were not given a good enough reason to accept his lead and care for him. Even though that is what the second half of the story is about.

I understand why they have him a bit under powered in actual play this is acceptable. Otherwise it would be too easy like the human commoner first 10 levels. At least I do not have to rez him all the time like a do Logan. But this is exactly what I mean by the transition to Trahearne did not work well. A lot of players have no respect for him because he does not feel like a hero alongside us.

I think the problem was they tried so hard to make it feel like our story that they crippled the ability for us to respect the commander of the Pact. If they gave Trahearne some Heroic cut-scene a few times to show his progression from scholar to commander then I think people would like him a lot better.

Forging the Pact is all about Trahearne dealing with a surprise situation and showing his leadership.

If you go the “Shell shock” path, he comes with you to deal with the Mesmer because he has to show people he can deal with these issues.

Again, put an introvert into a situation which they know well, and they can lead. Yes, they perhaps could’ve done more with it, but Trahearne did go from Scholar to commander. Remember the PS takes place over a year, and while the Commander did a lot, there are some things they missed while on missions.

I think really they just needed to (or need to) explain his backstory with the orders, whether in a short or in dialogue inside the game. Show us tales of why he’s so widely respected.

Everything I’ve heard is that Sylvari players (Who meet him much earlier) went smoothly into the post Claw Island story without issue, while other races got confused slightly at Trahearne.

Kalavier.1097:

I think really they just needed to (or need to) explain his backstory with the orders, whether in a short or in dialogue inside the game. Show us tales of why he’s so widely respected.

Everything I’ve heard is that Sylvari players (Who meet him much earlier) went smoothly into the post Claw Island story without issue, while other races got confused slightly at Trahearne.

That is basically what I was trying to say.

anzenketh.3759:

Kalavier.1097:

I think really they just needed to (or need to) explain his backstory with the orders, whether in a short or in dialogue inside the game. Show us tales of why he’s so widely respected.

Everything I’ve heard is that Sylvari players (Who meet him much earlier) went smoothly into the post Claw Island story without issue, while other races got confused slightly at Trahearne.

That is basically what I was trying to say.

Ah, yeah. then I agree

Many hate him for stealing credit, which never happens.

I didn’t accuse him of stealing credit. The bias that causes this misconception has a foundation, however. Trahearne was not built up at all for 4/5 of the races. I seem to recall he had a part in the sylvari storyline, but the majority of players won’t meet him until the first claw island mission. The problem is that for these people, he pretty much comes out of nowhere and is put in charge of essentially what the player has been working toward for the past 50 levels or so. A lot of players see this as a usurpation. Basically, it boils down to them saying “He stole my quest!” Hence the accusations of credit stealing.

We really don’t know how much the actual nations put forth for the effort.

Its more a matter of politics, than contributions. All of the pact soldiers came from the various nations, even if it was as part of the three orders. Forming a military force using an array of different citizens from the different nations means that the nations will expect a degree of cooperation and control over their citizens. There should have been liasons and diplomats and tense meetings, at least some of which, as vice commander, the player would be involved in. I could see it being swept under the rug for the sake of gameplay, except that similar matters weren’t in earlier story-lines. Especially with the Asura.

I suppose the point that I was trying to make is that not only is this rarely if ever addressed, but the story would have greatly benefited from the presence of another NPC who was specifically made to be the diplomat for the pact, who had experience with and prior dealings with the various leaderships of the five races.

And then there was the child of destiny subplot, with visions from the pale tree. With everything else Trahearne is taking on, this more than anything else will push a player into asking himself “Why am I even here? I don’t really have any part in this story other than as a monkey to get things done.” This is not how the medium through the story is told (the POINT OF VIEW) should be made to feel for half the storyline.

I never felt like a lackey, considering how much praise is laid at your character. Your character shows a chunk of leadership as well, as YOUR character is the one who suggests the Pact to the orders first.

My point is that Trahearne is entrusted with EVERYTHING, while the player is told to help him out. Again, a usurpation of the quest the player has been working toward the entire storyline up until Trahearne came along.

The main character of the story needs to feel like he’s a necessary part of what makes the storyline work in order to be believable in that role. However, Trahearne does his job too well, so there really isn’t the sense that the main character is needed for events to progress properly in his own story. This is why it fails.

Trahearne is good at being the leader because he asks for advice and gets help, not natural talent. Introverted people can become strong leaders once placed into a spot to do so in real life.

This isn’t really about how Trahearne manages things, though. The problem here is that you, the player, the POV character, are not necessary for the story at that point.

Dzhudin Stormbreak. Dzhudin… kittening… Stormbreak.

Whoever programmed that thing’s mechanics needs to be tied to a post and pelted with eggs.

Yeah, the PS is pretty bad, mostly how it completely overlooks any real input from the player. Yes there are times when you have the illusion of free choice, but really these make NO difference at all to the story. You mentor still dies. Apatia, Tonn and a bunch of Charr still die. Trahearne still lives.

It was… passable first play through, after that it was awful.

What I learned from the PS more than anything is that it doesnt make a tiny bit of difference what profession you choose. Stab/slash/bash, rinse and repeat.

On a thief I didnt feel like a thief, sneakily performing espionage and stealing secrets. As an engineer I didnt feel like an engineer, constructing items to bring about the downfall of Zhaitan. With my guardian, I didnt feel like a guardian, defending the weak against an onslaught of enemies. My mesmer didnt feel like a mesmer, outwitting and deceiving opponents. Etc etc.

Massively disappointing. One mechanic fits all and that is kill to win.

I don’t understand all of the hate when it comes to the stories. Granted, it isn’t anything groundbreaking, but I think that is since it is your own personal story, you can fill in the blanks yourself.

I usually find that people who complain about the story of an MMO are expecting the developers/writers to provide everything. Players forget that since you are playing the role of an adventurer, there is room left for them to really make the character their own with your imagination.

Personally, I can’t imagine how much work went into creating all of the possible storylines that happen in the first 20 levels of any given character. I have a lot of respect for that kind of dedication.

Besides, if you hate the story that much, you are able to skip the cutscenes altogether. It isn’t like you are forced to deal with the personal story anymore than you have to.

So, during the down time between now and new content, I decided to have at least one of my capped characters complete the Personal Story, and last night I did with a bunch of r/l friends and guildies. To preface, I’m not into bashing this game just to sound superior or because I’m feeling evil. I love this game, and it is the only game I’m playing right now. So this is an honest opinion of the ending instances.

I was underwhelmed. Again, to be honest, I took most of the Personal Story with a grain of salt and I’ve posted numerous times that I don’t hole either the Personal Story or Living Story to particularly high standards of writing – GW2 is a game, not a bestselling book, movie, TV show, etc… My preference – I just don’t expect all that much and am usually entertained by what I get.

So, knowing that my party was going to finally complete the Personal Story last night, I was looking forward, anxiously, to a level of ‘epicness’. I finished the end stories in Prophecies, Factions, and Gwen (I didn’t get a chance to finish Nightfall) and was satisfied in the endings. The battles were hard, sometimes white-knuckled, and the rewards were pretty decent – a chance for the rare boss item drop and my ranger got the Rainbow Phoenix. So, all in all a satisfying experience.

Last night was not satisfying. Yeah, it was entertaining to a degree but, keeping completely away from specifics in the quality of the storytelling and voice acting (which was acceptable, I guess) the plot for the ending just felt so much like I was along for the ride. I had read all the Trahearne-bashing and filed that all away but when I actually played the instances and felt like this story was really something along the lines of “Guild Wars 2: The Story of Trahearne” I felt cheated. Those who have finished the PS know who carted around the mighty sword, who was responsible for a few of the suddenly-ending final battles, and who called the shots all along the way. In the end, I was left firing an auto-targeting pea-shooter at a dragon that was stuck on a rock. As one of my brother’s said, “Why does it have so many hit points? It’s not fighting back and this is just filler.” There was no drama, no sense of urgency (I mean, really, how urgent is a hot air balloon sauntering through the mountains at 3 miles an hour?)

Some of the mechanics could have been awesome. Take fighting the two dragon bosses on the ship, dropping them eventually with canons while keeping spawns off us – that could have been a pretty decent “Millennium Falcon Bubble Turret” affair. But the targeting mechanics were odd and it took us most of the battle to get a feel for when we could actually shoot at them – counter-intuitive.

And when the time came to really damage Mr. Big, it was the lackeys on the ship that got to do most of the damage. The, as if we were on a guided tour, they casually stepped aside to let us ‘finish him off.’ Really? But I thought this was MY story.

And the rewards – well, I’m getting the idea that ANet is getting pretty stingy with getting cool stuff through earning it. Everything is either randomness or nothingness. No wait, it’s blueness and greenness. I would still like to see account bound items that tie you back to that instance in particular. Say you get a Zhaitan helm or something that says, “I was there. I stood next to Trahearne while he saved the world.”

I know this is probably obsolete information, as this content is over a year and half old. I thought the end of the LS last month was pretty good and a definite improvement to the PS. But, overall, we need epic. We deserve epic. How can we be epic if we aren’t allowed to be epic?

So, that’s my review. I do love this game – I’m working diligently on my legendary (if anyone wants to donate a Spark to the effort, I’m all ears!) and love, not like – LOVE, most of this game. I’m just offering my opinion in the hopes that it helps in the future.

The personal story is terrible. But what’s really a bad sign is that the Living Story is even worse. Their storytelling is not improving — it’s getting worse.

GummiArms.5368:

My point is that Trahearne is entrusted with EVERYTHING, while the player is told to help him out. Again, a usurpation of the quest the player has been working toward the entire storyline up until Trahearne came along.

What quest would that be?

There wasn’t one (Unless Sylvari where your wyld hunt is to go after the dragons). Before that point, you went from being another person, to joining the order and helping them and other races out.

There wasn’t a clear epic quest going on, not until the Pact formed and it was clear that we would march on Orr.

Kalavier.1097:

GummiArms.5368:

My point is that Trahearne is entrusted with EVERYTHING, while the player is told to help him out. Again, a usurpation of the quest the player has been working toward the entire storyline up until Trahearne came along.

What quest would that be?

There wasn’t one (Unless Sylvari where your wyld hunt is to go after the dragons). Before that point, you went from being another person, to joining the order and helping them and other races out.

There wasn’t a clear epic quest going on, not until the Pact formed and it was clear that we would march on Orr.

Perhaps not explicitly stated, but if you read into the interactions with your mentor from Destiny’s edge, or your the order leaders or various other NPC’s throughout the storyline, it is clear that you are being prepared for an eventual showdown with the elder dragons. I will concede that some paths make this more apparent than others, and it is handled with a degree of subtlety, so that thread could be lost.

Nevertheless, this is how a great many of the players will view the situation, this is a big cause for the hostility directed at Trahearne.

Here is my anecdote for the post: Let’s say you’re playing some zelda game. You’ve beaten the first set of dungeons, and gotten the three pendants you need to unlock the Master Sword. Things are getting serious now. You go the temple of time or wherever, pull out the sword. Then Zelda appears, and she explains that there has been a terrible mistake and you are not meant to be the hero to fight Ganondorf. Instead, she has you hand the Master Sword over to a random skull kid, he is the one that has to defeat Ganondorf, but if you want you are free to tag along. How would you feel? Some people might not care, but not everyone is going to want to roll with that.

While personal story ain’t perfect, it isn’t crap either. Not by longshot. Neither is the voice acting bad like some here imply. Sure some can be a bit anoying after a while, but others are amazing. Sylvari is played by Jennifer Hales who also did the incredible good Mass effect 1-3 series (Commander Jane Sheppard), and if you don’t like her, then you have no taste for voice acting at all. Human is ok for my part as well. I even liked norn, although they were to over confidant (but then again they are born with that, and i’m sure Anet intended to show that in game).

It’s like the movie critics this topic. If I were to believe the critics, everything apart from lord of the ring trilogy is not good enough, and not worth getting. I got tons of movies at home, and there’s maybe 5-10% that are not worth watching again. 40% if them would get a 9/10 rating from me. Some people just are never pleased.

Sure Mass effect (apart from last 5%) has much better story then again like this. But those games, live or die on the story. Not that mmo’s don’t need good stories, but they always become second priority. And let’s face it, if the TP would be crap, if the wvw would not exist/be worse then it is now, etc etc, then people would be more kittened for that, then lack of ‘superior’ personal story.

I think people are just focussing on things they don’t like, to much. Rather then focus on what they like. Sure Trahearne hasn’t the cutest face, nor the best voice. But purely storywise, he never let’s me down. I mean, going from a simple bookwurm, to a general, with complete explanations and background stories, in the storyline, is pretty interesting to me. Dunno about you guys. Especially the avatar of the pale tree, as oracle has a pretty good role in the storymode. She turns the fear from Trahearne into confidence. And again people may hate trahearne, but the story of him is that he doesn’t want himself, but because of a lot of coincidances, he looks like the only viable leader (because so many people, like of the vigil, priory, order of whispers) that can pull of off, on a basis of trust. With that in mind, and the pale tree showing the right path, something happens that otherwise wouldnt happen. People unite. I really don’t know why people look past this storytellings, cause they are great. It’s actually similar to the lord of the rings, in some ways, and that movie gets almost no complaining. People are so focussed on what they don’t like (Trahearne’s face, his – in some people opinions – plothole with kaladbolg, etc), that the good parts, are ignored.

It’s same problem with movies. Dead or alive for instance. You could argue the story is crap. I’m surely not gonna claim it’s amazing. Yet I enjoy the movie and watched it 5 times. Why is that? Because I have no expectations storywise, and enjoy the settings/fighting (the strong points of the movie) rather then focussing on the weaker part (story).

I give gw2 personal story 6/10 to put things in perspective. There is room for improvement, but it’s not crap as many suggest. Destinies Edge, the orders, some of the characters (pale tree, countess Anise, Rytlock, etc) are pretty strong/amazing. Now you could keep on thinking ‘it should have been 9/10, period’. Or you could move on, and enjoy the 6/10 it already has.

Kalavier.1097:

GummiArms.5368:

My point is that Trahearne is entrusted with EVERYTHING, while the player is told to help him out. Again, a usurpation of the quest the player has been working toward the entire storyline up until Trahearne came along.

What quest would that be?

There wasn’t one (Unless Sylvari where your wyld hunt is to go after the dragons). Before that point, you went from being another person, to joining the order and helping them and other races out.

There wasn’t a clear epic quest going on, not until the Pact formed and it was clear that we would march on Orr.

I’d like to disagree. The players join the orders with one clear reason: to help fight the elder dragons. From lvl 22 the personal story directly deals with the threat of Zhaitan. Basically, your “epic quest” starts from here, from lvl 22.

SPOILERS From the wiki for reference :

Part III — Levels 22-28

The character is introduced by their mentor to the three orders and made aware of the true threat of the Elder Dragons. At the end of this chapter, the character is persuaded to permanently join an order to aid in the fight against the dragons (end of mission level 26).

Asura characters work with the orders to rescue a researcher who has discovered that the dragons consume magic, whose research is being covered up by the Arcane Eye.
Charr characters work with the orders to find and destroy a dragon crystal that raises the dead and consumes the land.
Human characters start with The Orders of Tyria. The three orders suggest different methods to deal with the increasingly problematic Risen. With the aid of the orders, the character discovers the identity of the seraph who is behind all of this.
Norn characters discover that the dredge are targeting Durmand Priory and scriptures of powerful technology hidden in their archives.
Sylvari characters work with the orders to recover the legendary blade Caladbolg from the squire Waine and then confront Mazdak the Accursed, the lich responsible for the death of the firstborn Riannoc.

And come on… it wasn’t really a secret from the marketing of the game that you will face Zhaitan, it will be your mission to fight him.

I thought it was okay until salad boy showed up. And then one of the missions bugged out on me, and I never bothered again.

tbh, I think Trahearne has one of the sexiest voices in game, well, he and Logan. But then I again I started life as a Sylvari, have made several since. LOL My only issue with Trahearne is when he pessimistically says “This won’t end well” After all I got him that cool GS Caladbolg, couldn’t he perhaps seem grateful?
Above is tongue in cheek

I still have 3 character slots left and on each one I can only see me doing the personal story missions through to Claw Island. The whole Traherne storyline and dialogue just makes me squirm. Not fun at all.

I would much rather have seen a storyline linked specifically to the Order I picked, not disregard it completely.