Guild Wars 2

Doing away with the trinity was the single biggest step forward that ANET has made in MMO development. Now I could very easily belittle and be condescending towards those that want that type of play style because it’s very easy but I won’t. I want to focus on why moving in this direction is such a good thing.

What some have stated is “chaos” is not chaos at all it’s the totality of individual decisions between actions and skills of the group. It can become chaos if there is no coordination among teammates and everyone is just doing what they want. You can fix this really fast by simply having a quick strategy session before getting started and adapting as you go along. “Bad players” as some would call them stand out a lot more in a game like this because everyone is primarily responsible for their own survival and in many ways has to make decisions on an individual level. You can’t just stand in place and spam our rotation of abilities anymore. The thing that makes it so elegant is that the “roles” aren’t simply given to you like in other games. The fighter isn’t always the tank. The cleric isn’t always the healer. This opens up the doors for much more dynamic and diverse gameplay. Having trouble dying? Maybe you have too many skills and traits devoted to DPS instead of survivability. If the entire team is balanced towards group benefiting skills and traits the synergy provided among diverse classes is very strong.

Doing away with traditional tanking has made for a much more dynamic and less scripted combat. The choreographed dance of the tank pulling agro and the “mobs” just hitting away at him while the healer heals and the dps does their thing is boring beyond belief. What’s the point of having AI if you already know exactly what it’s going to do and who it’s going to target? I can’t tell you how many times I’ve played a traditional MMO and while yawning away the fight performing my role thought “it would be cool if this thing would do something smart like stop focusing the tank and turn on that thief, wizard, or better yet go kill that healer that’s making this fight so hard for it.

Finally I for one hate being pigeon holed into a specific role. Maybe it’s just my personality but I suspect many are like me in that I want to be able to do it all to some degree. If I’m being honest I see no point to classes. We as players should have the ability to level our character and have him/her be as diverse as our individual personalities. You spent a bunch of time leveling a character to level 80 and that character should be good at whatever you have invested time in getting that character good at. You should be able to invest time in that character to get good at other things without having to level a completely different character to pick up things like spell casting, stealth, whatever. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be trade offs. If you get better at something like casting spells it should deteriorate your ability to fight with a sword or use stealth if you aren’t practicing those.

Anyway I can deal with having classes and being tied to certain abilities because I chose that class but please don’t take backwards steps by forcing us back into simple minded “roles” which aren’t truly reflective of our unique and changing taste. All that does is dumb down and simplify encounters while giving fewer options on how to defeat them.

I agree.

I am glad there are no roles cast in stone or a rigid set of rules defining what I should be doing in combat.

It really did move MMO’s forward.

But they went two steps back with the way they did dungeon tokens,so it evens out.

I’d say yes and no. Often 5 man dungeons have become nothing more than “rez zerg” which is rezzing time and time again during the encounter until the boss dies. It feels lacking. Then there’s the cathedral “endgame” events, which are nothing more than a zerg. There are also people who really liked to heal / tank. On the plus side, we don’t have to wait for tanks / healers. This, however, was made relatively easy with the dungeon queue system of other games.

Saga.1652:

I’d say yes and no. Often 5 man dungeons have become nothing more than “rez zerg” which is rezzing time and time again during the encounter until the boss dies. It feels lacking. Then there’s the cathedral “endgame” events, which are nothing more than a zerg. There are also people who really liked to heal / tank. On the plus side, we don’t have to wait for tanks / healers. This, however, was made relatively easy with the dungeon queue system of other games.

I think those people who have issues with “rez zerg” dungeon runs just aren’t doing it right and haven’t figured out what tactics to use yet. Many people are having fun, successful dungeon runs.

And there are still professions and builds for people that enjoy the tank/healer thing. It’s not the same tank/healer role but it’s similar enough that they can still find a playstyle they enjoy. Staff Elementalist for example can do a nice, well-rounded caster/support thing that feels similar to healers of other games. They’ll do a lot more than healing, though – they’ll cc, they’ll buff and debuff, they’ll also dps. But it does offer that backline caster “support” feeling that you had from being a cloth healer in other games.

Rez zerg isn’t due to the trinity.
You could do this in GW1 as well, but it would effect you much more due to death sickness.
It’s a flaw in the waypoint system O hope they fix.

I agree.

The game is only chaotic when you’re surrounded by incompetence. I’ve had guild runs of different dungeons and they’ve gone extremely smoothly. ANET created a social game, where you need to make friends and get to know their play styles in order to be 100% effective. Once you know eachother’s strengths and weaknesses the game becomes a lot more enjoyable as you can overcome challenges that would be nearly impossible for a disorganized PUG with ease.

Saga.1652:

I’d say yes and no. Often 5 man dungeons have become nothing more than “rez zerg” which is rezzing time and time again during the encounter until the boss dies. It feels lacking. Then there’s the cathedral “endgame” events, which are nothing more than a zerg.

This isn’t a consequence of removing the trinity though so I’m not sure why you mention it. Rez zerging is a separate issue many want removed which won’t change their views on the trinity being removed.

I love how ArenaNet removed the trinity, and how they gave me the ability to blend all 3 roles into my character.

It adds a real richness to my character, giving me so many more decisions in shaping him.

I agree. No reliance on the trinity is causing everyone to play more carefully and at the same time to play more like a team.

Much more interesting.

Fantastic post, spot on. Completely agreed.

I don’t disagree with your post. What you describe here would be the perfect MMO. Unfortunatley, GW2 isn’t. Maybe they’ll be able to fix some of it, but right now, it’s basically standing still, moving out of the fire and auto-attacking the boss along with fifty other players. If they have to reduce the mechanical difficulity of boss encounters because you no longer have clear roles present in the game, then I personally believe it’s a shame, because doing Ulduar in WoW, was one of the best gaming experience I’ve ever had.

Eddard.2930:

No reliance on the trinity is causing everyone to play more carefully and at the same time to play more like a team.

By what I have seen, I definitely don’t agree with this. Teamwork, what little I have actually seen, still feels like people falling into familiar roles. Groups have that overwhelming zerg feel to them rather than any real thought or strategy. Many other games have been successful at making hybrid and multi-spec classes. The only real benefit I have noticed is that people aren’t waiting on a specific class/role for a party.

I have seen “the new thing” be touted as revolutionary and amazing too often; I’ll wait to see how this really develops once the game settles in.

Psilocin.1435:

I don’t disagree with your post. What you describe here would be the perfect MMO. Unfortunatley, GW2 isn’t. Maybe they’ll be able to fix some of it, but right now, it’s basically standing still, moving out of the fire and auto-attacking the boss along with fifty other players. If they have to reduce the mechanical difficulity of boss encounters because you no longer have clear roles present in the game, then I personally believe it’s a shame, because doing Ulduar in WoW, was one of the best gaming experience I’ve ever had.

I agree.

I like playing a class that can be versatile. I appreciate the fact that my warrior can be as strong with a rifle as with a warhammer. However, versatility and options should not lead to a homogenized pot of poorly defined characters. That wasn’t the point. Something went horribly wrong.

Because of this, we have PvE content that lacks the same kind of depth that other games have already proven possible. Being different has come at a great cost – it’s worse. The challenge was to make a different game that’s better, not just a different game.

I don’t think we are playing the same game. All this game does is prove why the Trinity has been around for so long.

but the trinity isnt gone…why do people keep saying " YEY TRINITY IS GONE" because it didnt go away…i am kind of baffled by this statement.

Tank=support/defense build
Healer=support/heal spec
Damage dealer= control/damage

only thing they did was change how those classes worked, and reworked how the aggro system worked. But if you are NOT spec’d right, have right utilities, have the right gear set up YOUR team will get man handled… so way i see it TRINITY still exists just painted it a different color.

i kind of miss the trinity roles.

being a ranged squishy i really hate kiting bosses that seem to target my engineer all the time.

i also feel support is absolutely useless cos being able to heal others for 500 – 1000 hit points every 20 seconds is, well, useless and almost anyone can give others the 4 basic buffs.

i kind of feel that instead of being able to play a dungeon 3 ways, tank, dps and healer (aion had 4 ways, with a support role, the chanter in there) i can only play one way, that way is to just kill things while keeping myself alive and thats it.

Have you guys actually done anything that involves more than 5 people? The removal of the traditional holy trinity since a somewhat different holy trinity exists in this game can only be applied properly on super small scale content which is 5 people or less anything past that pretty much turns into zergfest autoattack spam.
There is a reason why the only challenging content in this game includes only 5 people tops because only then actual teamwork can be used efficiently, any other case dissolves into zerging very quickly.
All of that of course is my opinion which i’m fairly certain tons of people will disagree with.

I actually miss the traditional style as well. While I like the dodging and all it becomes tiresome and wears you out fast. Kiting everything and having to rely on somersaults wasn`t exactly what I expected.

I actually soloed some champion giant earlier tonight. While i was running in circles around it for the 30 minutes it took me to kill it with my scepter I thought about how a group would go about killing this thing if it can dam near kill me in 2 hits. then I realized it would be the exact same thing. everyone running in circles around it doing dps taking turns kiting it whenever someone got aggro. Not to mention my fingers hurt from doing the circle attack thing for 30 minutes. But when I did kill it the victory didn`t feel all that rewarding and the 30 copper bow it dropped will go on my mantle as a monument to my stamina and sore fingers.

Not even a step forward tbh

Guild Wars didn’t have the trinity. It did have healers, but that’s not really a trinity.

Yes..but for those who are missing the Trinity, there are numerous games to cater to that style of play. Why do you keep insisting that this game institute changes that will make it like very other game out there?

I hope Anet stays with their vision and ignores those who are calling for a return to the Trinity play style.

Apathy.6430:

Not even a step forward tbh

Guild Wars didn’t have the trinity. It did have healers, but that’s not really a trinity.

The orignal game was a trinity system. You couldn`t solo through the game without a group without a healer and classes that has some support skills. The only thing it didn`t have was taunting but everything else was still there pretty much.

There were some builds early on that let you solo some content but those builds all became obsolete once anet found the builds were too successful.

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Not even a step forward tbh

Guild Wars didn’t have the trinity. It did have healers, but that’s not really a trinity.

The orignal game was a trinity system. You couldn`t solo through the game without a group without a healer and classes that has some support skills. The only thing it didn`t have was taunting but everything else was still there pretty much.

There were some builds early on that let you solo some content but those builds all became obsolete once anet found the builds were too successful.

You can’t solo in GW2 dungeons either.

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Not even a step forward tbh

Guild Wars didn’t have the trinity. It did have healers, but that’s not really a trinity.

The orignal game was a trinity system. You couldn`t solo through the game without a group without a healer and classes that has some support skills. The only thing it didn`t have was taunting but everything else was still there pretty much.

There were some builds early on that let you solo some content but those builds all became obsolete once anet found the builds were too successful.

So…it didn’t have the trinity.

Thanks for confirming my point.

Great post, Proeliator.8740. I agree whole-heartedly. I’m so glad ANET has broken the mold and has liberated players from having to create cookie-cutter builds.

Apathy.6430:

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Not even a step forward tbh

Guild Wars didn’t have the trinity. It did have healers, but that’s not really a trinity.

The orignal game was a trinity system. You couldn`t solo through the game without a group without a healer and classes that has some support skills. The only thing it didn`t have was taunting but everything else was still there pretty much.

There were some builds early on that let you solo some content but those builds all became obsolete once anet found the builds were too successful.

So…it didn’t have the trinity.

Thanks for confirming my point.

It did have the trinity. What part of tank,heals, and support/dps don`t you understand? the only thing it didn`t have was taunting but if the warrior was right on top of a mob it would 90% of the time turn its aggro to him and the rest of the group would assist and do what groups do.

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Not even a step forward tbh

Guild Wars didn’t have the trinity. It did have healers, but that’s not really a trinity.

The orignal game was a trinity system. You couldn`t solo through the game without a group without a healer and classes that has some support skills. The only thing it didn`t have was taunting but everything else was still there pretty much.

There were some builds early on that let you solo some content but those builds all became obsolete once anet found the builds were too successful.

So…it didn’t have the trinity.

Thanks for confirming my point.

It did have the trinity. What part of tank,heals, and support/dps don`t you understand? the only thing it didn`t have was taunting but if the warrior was right on top of a mob it would 90% of the time turn its aggro to him and the rest of the group would assist and do what groups do.

Mainly the fact that there was no such thing as a tank.

Or were you one of those horribads that thought warriors were tanks and loaded yourself down with mending and healing breeze?

Apathy.6430:

Mainly the fact that there was no such thing as a tank.

This!

And I’m really hoping that those idiots in GW1 asking my W/Mo to tank didn’t spill over to GW2, because I haven’t yet been bothered by people that my guardian isn’t doing enough “tanking”, and I’d like to keep it that way.

DusK.3849:

Apathy.6430:

Mainly the fact that there was no such thing as a tank.

This!

And I’m really hoping that those idiots in GW1 asking my W/Mo to tank didn’t spill over to GW2, because I haven’t yet been bothered by people that my guardian isn’t doing enough “tanking”, and I’d like to keep it that way.

They have.

They are the ones complaining about getting instantly killed in dungeons.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Great post, Proeliator.8740. I agree whole-heartedly. I’m so glad ANET has broken the mold and has liberated players from having to create cookie-cutter builds.

I wouldn`t be so sure about that. If you want to run dungeons easily, there is going to be a cookie cutter build to optimize it. Like a guild group for example, They will most likely discuss what skills they are bringing to the table and once they find combinations that work well and word gets out, it`s cookie cutter because everyone will want everyone to use that template since it makes it easier on everyone else. This is really no different then any other mmo when it comes to character skills and how you set them up.

The trinity is dead because the healer and tank are gone. Everyone can heal themselves, and aggro cannot be controlled, so now everyone is fair game.

All we have now are different level of DPS classes. That is it. Spin it however you want, but the majority of people I see posting here, and playing in game, want to max out their dps because there really isn’t anything else to do.

About the only thing you can delve into is crowd control, but that was never specific to any one trinity archetype.

The trinity has worked in many games for nearly 40 years Getting used to it being gone here just takes practice, patience and time.

Banewrath.5107:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Great post, Proeliator.8740. I agree whole-heartedly. I’m so glad ANET has broken the mold and has liberated players from having to create cookie-cutter builds.

I wouldn`t be so sure about that. If you want to run dungeons easily, there is going to be a cookie cutter build to optimize it. Like a guild group for example, They will most likely discuss what skills they are bringing to the table and once they find combinations that work well and word gets out, it`s cookie cutter because everyone will want everyone to use that template since it makes it easier on everyone else. This is really no different then any other mmo when it comes to character skills and how you set them up.

I have no intention of going into any dungeons, and that’s the beauty of this game. I don’t have to in order to get top quality, great looking gear

Banewrath.5107:

Like a guild group for example, They will most likely discuss what skills they are bringing to the table and once they find combinations that work well and word gets out, it`s cookie cutter because everyone will want everyone to use that template since it makes it easier on everyone else

I recall ANet saying that if there was ever an instance where that happened that didn’t fall in line with their “play how you want” philosophy, they’d tweak it and make that cookie-cutter set up go away. Can’t remember what article it was, though.

Apathy.6430:

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Not even a step forward tbh

Guild Wars didn’t have the trinity. It did have healers, but that’s not really a trinity.

The orignal game was a trinity system. You couldn`t solo through the game without a group without a healer and classes that has some support skills. The only thing it didn`t have was taunting but everything else was still there pretty much.

There were some builds early on that let you solo some content but those builds all became obsolete once anet found the builds were too successful.

So…it didn’t have the trinity.

Thanks for confirming my point.

It did have the trinity. What part of tank,heals, and support/dps don`t you understand? the only thing it didn`t have was taunting but if the warrior was right on top of a mob it would 90% of the time turn its aggro to him and the rest of the group would assist and do what groups do.

Mainly the fact that there was no such thing as a tank.

Or were you one of those horribads that thought warriors were tanks and loaded yourself down with mending and healing breeze?

No, I used doylak signet, endure pain, watch yourself so when I was tanking the healer didn`t have to worry so much about spikes on me. Just because there wasn`t a taunt button didn`t mean it wasn`t a trinity. Any game that requires another class in oder to acheive an objective is a trinity based system. Go try and kill a group of flame djinn with a group with no healer and let me know how it went after you rez yourself.

BuFFoTheClown.2413:

All we have now are different level of DPS classes. That is it. Spin it however you want, but the majority of people I see posting here, and playing in game, want to max out their dps because there really isn’t anything else to do.

And they are failing, miserably, then whining on the forums about how everything is broke.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Banewrath.5107:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Great post, Proeliator.8740. I agree whole-heartedly. I’m so glad ANET has broken the mold and has liberated players from having to create cookie-cutter builds.

I wouldn`t be so sure about that. If you want to run dungeons easily, there is going to be a cookie cutter build to optimize it. Like a guild group for example, They will most likely discuss what skills they are bringing to the table and once they find combinations that work well and word gets out, it`s cookie cutter because everyone will want everyone to use that template since it makes it easier on everyone else. This is really no different then any other mmo when it comes to character skills and how you set them up.

I have no intention of going into any dungeons, and that’s the beauty of this game. I don’t have to in order to get top quality, great looking gear

Haha I like that about it too1

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Not even a step forward tbh

Guild Wars didn’t have the trinity. It did have healers, but that’s not really a trinity.

The orignal game was a trinity system. You couldn`t solo through the game without a group without a healer and classes that has some support skills. The only thing it didn`t have was taunting but everything else was still there pretty much.

There were some builds early on that let you solo some content but those builds all became obsolete once anet found the builds were too successful.

So…it didn’t have the trinity.

Thanks for confirming my point.

It did have the trinity. What part of tank,heals, and support/dps don`t you understand? the only thing it didn`t have was taunting but if the warrior was right on top of a mob it would 90% of the time turn its aggro to him and the rest of the group would assist and do what groups do.

Mainly the fact that there was no such thing as a tank.

Or were you one of those horribads that thought warriors were tanks and loaded yourself down with mending and healing breeze?

No, I used doylak signet, endure pain, watch yourself so when I was tanking the healer didn`t have to worry so much about spikes on me. Just because there wasn`t a taunt button didn`t mean it wasn`t a trinity. Any game that requires another class in oder to acheive an objective is a trinity based system. Go try and kill a group of flame djinn with a group with no healer and let me know how it went after you rez yourself.

oh kitten sticks, one of THESE people.

also loling @ “if it requires another person it is the trinity”…

Apathy.6430:

BuFFoTheClown.2413:

All we have now are different level of DPS classes. That is it. Spin it however you want, but the majority of people I see posting here, and playing in game, want to max out their dps because there really isn’t anything else to do.

And they are failing, miserably, then whining on the forums about how everything is broke.

I find it mildly disrespectful when posters throw around the word “whining” around like a pseudo insult to marginalize another person’s argument.

Especially in this instance because I read tons of posts, and many of the posters who are “whining” make legitimate complaints. The majority of the issues are bug related to skills not working properly.

The other half complain that their dps is not enough, and that is the problem when you remove the Trinity. When everyone is ONLY dps, you want to be the BEST dps.

I will agree with you when other people are actually whining, but in this case, so far in this game, the majority of complaints seem very valid.

BuFFoTheClown.2413:

Apathy.6430:

BuFFoTheClown.2413:

All we have now are different level of DPS classes. That is it. Spin it however you want, but the majority of people I see posting here, and playing in game, want to max out their dps because there really isn’t anything else to do.

And they are failing, miserably, then whining on the forums about how everything is broke.

I find it mildly disrespectful when posters throw around the word “whining” around like a pseudo insult to marginalize another person’s argument.

Especially in this instance because I read tons of posts, and many of the posters who are “whining” make legitimate complaints. The majority of the issues are bug related to skills not working properly.

The other half complain that their dps is not enough, and that is the problem when you remove the Trinity. When everyone is ONLY dps, you want to be the BEST dps.

I will agree with you when other people are actually whining, but in this case, so far in this game, the majority of complaints seem very valid.

Yeah, literally NOBODY is calling people reporting bugs whiners.

Like, I’ve literally never seen this.

To the people saying “there’s going to be cookie cutter builds”, so what?
These people are called “mix maxers” and are generally awful at the game, trying to run everything as fast as possible, disregarding the content.

First time I PuG with random group. Rez fest

Second time I run with my guild/family – rarely if ever had to rez rush (won’t say NEVER since 4 manning TA final boss was rough, but we got it).

Untouch.2541:

To the people saying “there’s going to be cookie cutter builds”, so what?
These people are called “mix maxers” and are generally awful at the game, trying to run everything as fast as possible, disregarding the content.

The best part is that I can completely ignore such builds and still end up with quality gear as good as anyone else because dungeon runs don’t give you better gear. There is no game mechanic that is “forcing” me into any such mold.

I don’t buy the premise that because GW2 went in a different direction than traditional trinity based games that it’s a step forward. That doesn’t mean I think it’s a step backwards or a step anywhere for that matter — just different.

I would honestly hope that it doesn’t become a new standard for MMO PvE because I don’t think it works on a large scale. After all, I’m sure there’s a reason why 5 is the limit for any challenging PvE content. Also, while most MMO players are dps not everybody is. I’m sorry so many people had trouble finding groups but GW2’s system is even less friendly to the dps crowd and makes it even more desirable to bring as much support and control to a group as you can possibly get. I remember all the talk before release, people cheering about not needing to find tanks or healers anymore and I’m wondering what those people think now.

Anyway, while I don’t think GW2’s method works on a large scale or will allow many people to enjoy it, it does work very well on a small scale.

In many ways this game’s PvE reminds me of Dragon Age 2 on nightmare mode. DA2 specifically, and not DA because in DA2 healing was nerfed, muscling your way through everything with dps was far riskier, and tanking wasn’t so much about soaking up damage but getting aggro and locking targets down. GW2 is pretty much DA2 moved to an MMO space where there’s no pausing, you’re just one piece of the group rather than the puppet master, and the camera is so constricted and the particle effects so blinding that you can’t see what’s going on — topped off with a dodge mechanic.

My post might make it sound otherwise but I do enjoy the explorable modes to an extent when I’m with a mostly guild group. Still, the PvE needs a good bit of work in the form of tuning mob health/damage and class tweaks. Not every death is simply a matter of poor trait/gear/utility choices. Some classes are just wet paper bags or sacrifice too much for too little gain in survivability.

I have run dungeons with all kinds of profession combinations. It really doesn’t matter what professions you have- and that is a huge step forward. No more waiting for a healer or tank. ANet lived up to its promise!

Apathy.6430:

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Not even a step forward tbh

Guild Wars didn’t have the trinity. It did have healers, but that’s not really a trinity.

The orignal game was a trinity system. You couldn`t solo through the game without a group without a healer and classes that has some support skills. The only thing it didn`t have was taunting but everything else was still there pretty much.

There were some builds early on that let you solo some content but those builds all became obsolete once anet found the builds were too successful.

So…it didn’t have the trinity.

Thanks for confirming my point.

It did have the trinity. What part of tank,heals, and support/dps don`t you understand? the only thing it didn`t have was taunting but if the warrior was right on top of a mob it would 90% of the time turn its aggro to him and the rest of the group would assist and do what groups do.

Mainly the fact that there was no such thing as a tank.

Or were you one of those horribads that thought warriors were tanks and loaded yourself down with mending and healing breeze?

No, I used doylak signet, endure pain, watch yourself so when I was tanking the healer didn`t have to worry so much about spikes on me. Just because there wasn`t a taunt button didn`t mean it wasn`t a trinity. Any game that requires another class in oder to acheive an objective is a trinity based system. Go try and kill a group of flame djinn with a group with no healer and let me know how it went after you rez yourself.

oh kitten sticks, one of THESE people.

also loling @ “if it requires another person it is the trinity”…

What`s wrong? Were you too used to all the mobs running around attacking everyone because they didn`t have support strategy setup beforehand?

And yes, if you play a game that requires you to need a class to keep someone alive like a monk and someone like the warrior who has the highest armor class to take the damge and the other classes having various support utilites and skills for cc and other things , then that is a trinity system. Just because they made the game a little loose in the beginning so it wasn`t mega extreme don`t mean it wasn`t trinity based. Just because an ele could a few hits without dying dont mean you don`t want the warrior up front tanking glint keeping the damage on him and off everyone else.

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Not even a step forward tbh

Guild Wars didn’t have the trinity. It did have healers, but that’s not really a trinity.

The orignal game was a trinity system. You couldn`t solo through the game without a group without a healer and classes that has some support skills. The only thing it didn`t have was taunting but everything else was still there pretty much.

There were some builds early on that let you solo some content but those builds all became obsolete once anet found the builds were too successful.

So…it didn’t have the trinity.

Thanks for confirming my point.

It did have the trinity. What part of tank,heals, and support/dps don`t you understand? the only thing it didn`t have was taunting but if the warrior was right on top of a mob it would 90% of the time turn its aggro to him and the rest of the group would assist and do what groups do.

Mainly the fact that there was no such thing as a tank.

Or were you one of those horribads that thought warriors were tanks and loaded yourself down with mending and healing breeze?

No, I used doylak signet, endure pain, watch yourself so when I was tanking the healer didn`t have to worry so much about spikes on me. Just because there wasn`t a taunt button didn`t mean it wasn`t a trinity. Any game that requires another class in oder to acheive an objective is a trinity based system. Go try and kill a group of flame djinn with a group with no healer and let me know how it went after you rez yourself.

oh kitten sticks, one of THESE people.

also loling @ “if it requires another person it is the trinity”…

What`s wrong? Were you too used to all the mobs running around attacking everyone because they didn`t have support strategy setup beforehand?

And yes, if you play a game that requires you to need a class to keep someone alive like a monk and someone like the warrior who has the highest armor class to take the damge and the other classes having various support utilites and skills for cc and other things , then that is a trinity system. Just because they made the game a little loose in the beginning so it wasn`t mega extreme don`t mean it wasn`t trinity based. Just because an ele could a few hits without dying dont mean you don`t want the warrior up front tanking glint keeping the damage on him and off everyone else.

Warrior wasn’t a tank in Guild Wars.

You were just a useless spot on the team.

Sorry to break it to you.

DusK.3849:

Banewrath.5107:

Like a guild group for example, They will most likely discuss what skills they are bringing to the table and once they find combinations that work well and word gets out, it`s cookie cutter because everyone will want everyone to use that template since it makes it easier on everyone else

I recall ANet saying that if there was ever an instance where that happened that didn’t fall in line with their “play how you want” philosophy, they’d tweak it and make that cookie-cutter set up go away. Can’t remember what article it was, though.

Haha, sounds more like the " You play how we want you to" philosophy to me. but seriously, anet was famous for destroying builds that worked good in the original game. Remember when war/ele was popular and everyone used elemental weapons so they could use the conjure skills? Then anet went and put the remove enchantment skill on 90% of the mobs in the game. There used to be tons of templates on the gw wiki but every single one of them was rendered obsolete because anet kept tuning the game so people couldn`t do that. I expect they will do the same here once really successful builds are discovered that they deem to powerful for one reason or another.

Banewrath.5107:

DusK.3849:

Banewrath.5107:

Like a guild group for example, They will most likely discuss what skills they are bringing to the table and once they find combinations that work well and word gets out, it`s cookie cutter because everyone will want everyone to use that template since it makes it easier on everyone else

I recall ANet saying that if there was ever an instance where that happened that didn’t fall in line with their “play how you want” philosophy, they’d tweak it and make that cookie-cutter set up go away. Can’t remember what article it was, though.

Haha, sounds more like the " You play how we want you to" philosophy to me. but seriously, anet was famous for destroying builds that worked good in the original game. Remember when war/ele was popular and everyone used elemental weapons so they could use the conjure skills? Then anet went and put the remove enchantment skill on 90% of the mobs in the game. There used to be tons of templates on the gw wiki but every single one of them was rendered obsolete because anet kept tuning the game so people couldn`t do that. I expect they will do the same here once really successful builds are discovered that they deem to powerful for one reason or another.

Yeah, they added enchantment removal because of hamstormers.

Facepalming so hard right now.

Apathy.6430:

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Banewrath.5107:

Apathy.6430:

Not even a step forward tbh

Guild Wars didn’t have the trinity. It did have healers, but that’s not really a trinity.

The orignal game was a trinity system. You couldn`t solo through the game without a group without a healer and classes that has some support skills. The only thing it didn`t have was taunting but everything else was still there pretty much.

There were some builds early on that let you solo some content but those builds all became obsolete once anet found the builds were too successful.

So…it didn’t have the trinity.

Thanks for confirming my point.

It did have the trinity. What part of tank,heals, and support/dps don`t you understand? the only thing it didn`t have was taunting but if the warrior was right on top of a mob it would 90% of the time turn its aggro to him and the rest of the group would assist and do what groups do.

Mainly the fact that there was no such thing as a tank.

Or were you one of those horribads that thought warriors were tanks and loaded yourself down with mending and healing breeze?

No, I used doylak signet, endure pain, watch yourself so when I was tanking the healer didn`t have to worry so much about spikes on me. Just because there wasn`t a taunt button didn`t mean it wasn`t a trinity. Any game that requires another class in oder to acheive an objective is a trinity based system. Go try and kill a group of flame djinn with a group with no healer and let me know how it went after you rez yourself.

oh kitten sticks, one of THESE people.

also loling @ “if it requires another person it is the trinity”…

What`s wrong? Were you too used to all the mobs running around attacking everyone because they didn`t have support strategy setup beforehand?

And yes, if you play a game that requires you to need a class to keep someone alive like a monk and someone like the warrior who has the highest armor class to take the damge and the other classes having various support utilites and skills for cc and other things , then that is a trinity system. Just because they made the game a little loose in the beginning so it wasn`t mega extreme don`t mean it wasn`t trinity based. Just because an ele could a few hits without dying dont mean you don`t want the warrior up front tanking glint keeping the damage on him and off everyone else.

Warrior wasn’t a tank in Guild Wars.

You were just a useless spot on the team.

Sorry to break it to you.

Well I`d rather be a useless spot on the team then on the matress like yourself. But all joking aside, then what exactly was the warrior? I kinda remember the guild wars manual that came with the game back in 05 when I bought it as saying he was the tank of the classes.

You mean dumbing down the game…yeah thats progress. There are no roles just DPS now how interesting /yawn. Hope you don’t get focused fired…cuz you’ll die and get revived /yawn. See your buddy getting destroyed? Watch him die and revive him /yawn.

Like any sports team everyone should have a role and strengths and weaknesses. It makes coordination, team composition, and strategy necessarily which creates a challenge and makes the game interesting.

Not sure what anet was thinking. Hope no one ever follows there example To be fair I have always thought having “one” tank was ridiculous….but now there should be specializations and support roles and hybrids to fill the gaps. Not just DPSers.