Guild Wars 2

Champ bags aren’t so much the problem so much as where and when you can get them. Champ bags as a reward are fine, champ bags as a reward for mindless zerg or farm content… well probably not so much.

Well we all knew this thread was coming, did we not?

Please take all loot out of the game. Loot causes toxicity. Thank you for hearing my plea. And I reiterate that bunnies need to be taken out also.

I’m starting to really …. dislike…… this game and its players. It’s gone from fun to just constant nerfs, fighting, name calling, farming, TP wars/monopolies, and “fixes” that break the game (I’m looking at you traits). GG what a mess this game is now.

I mean it. Take ALL loot out of the game, so we can all just play “for fun” and to look fabulous. Then let’s see how many players are left next year, shall we?

Think about it please- champ bags are in the game for a reason – and that reason is that before they were put in there was no reason to kill a champion and people never did it.

I would prefer champion loot bags be tied to the event as well, to not specifically be prioritizing targeting loot dropping champions first, and prioritizing the event second.
I suppose there should also be a bonus to helping kill tough mobs in events, not just champions though.

GW2 isn’t designed for constant farming, while many farmers may think othervise…

Oh well, I stay behind my thought:
Loot bags off from “Lesser Champions”. “Prime Champions” would be the only source of the loot bags (Lesser Champ is always spawned through scale up, Prime Champ is one of the target objectives in event thus legimite for the Loot bag)

But then again:
If mobs are given proper redesign, ranks could be valued better too if done properly…

Harper.4173:

Think about it please- champ bags are in the game for a reason – and that reason is that before they were put in there was no reason to kill a champion and people never did it.

We should be killing them for fun. Just like mapping the world for the 18th time and unlocking the same traits on all your alts – for fun and lolz.

I would say this kind of thread warrants a CDI.. but that of course wont happen

Remove champion bags and every item and gold drop from every monster, dungeon chest, world event and so on! Imo, the only fair way to aquire gold in this game would be to buy gems with real money to turn it into gold, so that those monstrous, horrible, disgusting “hardcore” not “casual” players that manage to earn money by actually playing the game will stop this horror! Either that or make gold grow in our inventories like little plants, without doing anything to obtain it. #Sarcasm off.

Bloodstealer.5978:

I would say this kind of thread warrants a CDI.. but that of course wont happen

Not in the near future – after Guild Halls and GvG, I hear NPE is next on the list.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

@Vanive

If you read it carfefully the problem is not the champion bags, but the fact the farmers have been mean to others not doing the champ train, in other words for killing “their” champs.

The reactions of trying to get bags banned is just a reaction to this. The issue isn’t the champion bags, but people not willing to share an MMO with others…. And being mean and rude to other players.

The fact you do not see this and didn’t read the OP’s thread seems to show you are only here for the bags as well… Just think about it.

I read the OP, and my point still stands, do not remove things over feelings! And if you must know most of my game time is spent doing world events. I rarely jump on champ trains and when I have been on one people are nice and call out where the train is.

I get that sometimes people are not nice. We learn this as kids, and as adults we know how to deal with it through the proper channels instead of sobbing in a corner over it.

I’m sorry people hurt others feelings, and yes people are mean…but that’s why most people with any sense of maturity will /report vulgar or harassing statements made towards them or other players regardless of the situation, and move on. You would be surprised how many reports I make in a week over racist, violent, sexual or rude comments that show up in global. I don’t even bother commenting on them, I just report and move on.

This has nothing to do with champ bags, people are just rude. If it wasn’t champ bags it would be something else. Give me a break. xD

Bloodstealer.5978:

I would say this kind of thread warrants a CDI.. but that of course wont happen

There was a CDI about rewards already. Didn’t help any, of course.

Astralporing.1957:

Bloodstealer.5978:

I would say this kind of thread warrants a CDI.. but that of course wont happen

There was a CDI about rewards already. Didn’t help any, of course.

Has the CDI ever accomplished anything?

I respect Chris and his attempt at communicating with the fans, but I have never seen anything substantial implemented in game as a direct result from the CDI.

Because of the Daily need to do Shiverpeaks events today, I went to FSG this morning @ 5:20 EDT. When I got there, the zerg was doing the final event in the chain. There was a commander there controlling the zerg by telling them where to go and when to ‘Burn’ the Shamen. The event was completed correctly without a fail. Once done they collectively jumped on the FSG Champ train. A full round of that including the Trio and everybody lined up to restart the Meta event. Once it began, the zerg completed each event in the chain. The commander know how to stretch each event to maximize the Champ spawns. In the 40 minutes that I spent there, the entire Breaking the Ice event chain was completed. There was no attempt what so ever to at any time to fail any of the sub events. I collected 20+ Champ bags, 1 Rare bow & 1 Exotic hammer. All in all a fair haul for playing the game as designed.

This might have been an anomaly, but all that is required is a simple way to make the event chain flow this way. Simple timers should do the trick. With no advantage to failing, this is a fun run! Everybody wins!

Aedelric.1287:

Astralporing.1957:

Bloodstealer.5978:

I would say this kind of thread warrants a CDI.. but that of course wont happen

There was a CDI about rewards already. Didn’t help any, of course.

Has the CDI ever accomplished anything?

I respect Chris and his attempt at communicating with the fans, but I have never seen anything substantial implemented in game as a direct result from the CDI.

Exactly! +1.

warduke.1780:

This game has many problems right now, and most of them stem from the concept of champion bags. Before champion bags, the community was one of the best in any MMO I’ve ever played (and I’ve played a lot). People would do events just for the sake of doing them, and help others out. Farming was largely a solo affair.

Then champion bags arrived. First there was the Queensdale champion train – a starter zone transformed into a place of hate, greed and anger. Then Edge of the Mists, Boss Blitz, Blix and Coiled Watch, amongst others.

Just lol.
In the most casual MMO, with no real challenges and no rewards, players have been doing the stupid “toggle on/off” events for the sake of them?
Long before champion bags and the new “luck” system, players had their MF gear and food on and spamming AoE in Cursed Shores or the other high-level zones for the sake of LOOT and nothing else.

Back in WoW, I was doing dungeons and raids all the time but it was fun and rewards were nice.
There’s something very ,very wrong with the loot in this game. It’s not even the RNG because I’m sure they Anet controls the RNG.

I highly doubt you have played any other MMOs.

Champions that spawn as part of an event should never drop champ bags. Instead, the champ bag should be awarded upon successful completion of the event. The number of champ bags awarded should range from 1-4, based on the event’s scaling status.

The LAST thing this game needs is for rewards to be removed.

I would however like to see the story changed to where it didn’t need situations like this to be completed or where fail farms aren’t possible.
Haven’t they learned their lesson with stuff like this?

mtpelion.4562:

Champions that spawn as part of an event should never drop champ bags. Instead, the champ bag should be awarded upon successful completion of the event. The number of champ bags awarded should range from 1-4, based on the event’s scaling status.

I disagree. All Champions should drop loot bags.

However, if it is a problem (and seems like it could be) then these mobs should be changed to Elite status. I do agree that event rewards for successful completion should be increased though. Failing an event should never be more rewarding and succeeding at it.

From the Wiki:

Frostgorge Sound:
Drive the Sons of Svanir from Coiled Watch:
Adjusted the event timing after failure of the Defend Coiled Watch objective.

This would explain why the event chain was flowing as designed this morning. Needed that 3rd cup of strong tea to read the patch notes properly.

So can we give a big Thanks to Anet and move on please. Events get done, farmers get loot. Regular folks can enjoy extra loot when doing this because of all the farmers. Everybody shake hands and move along.

Aedelric.1287:

Astralporing.1957:

Bloodstealer.5978:

I would say this kind of thread warrants a CDI.. but that of course wont happen

There was a CDI about rewards already. Didn’t help any, of course.

Has the CDI ever accomplished anything?

I respect Chris and his attempt at communicating with the fans, but I have never seen anything substantial implemented in game as a direct result from the CDI.

Yes you have.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yes you have.

Care to elaborate?

They’ve nerf karma, they nerf gold reward, they nerf exp gained in multiple ways now you want them to nerf this. Do you want Anet just to put in a message “Congratulation you won!” as a reward?

I for one don’t miss trying to join in an event and being told to go away because I “wasn’t doing it right.”

I would be in favor of removing or further reducing champ bag rewards…and reducing world boss rewards – if they are replaced with the ability to do the sPvP reward tracks doing open world PvE activities. It would be infinitely better than the current open world rewards.

Aedelric.1287:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yes you have.

Care to elaborate?

Not really, but I will anyway. Supposedly Chris had a topic he was working on of “Top 10 things which came from the CDI” but I’ll name two:

Wardrobe, Story Journal.

There’s others, naturally, but those are the two easiest to point out.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Aedelric.1287:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yes you have.

Care to elaborate?

I’ll name two:

Wardrobe, Story Journal.

Care to elaborate? Which precise CDI affected change and what was the direct changes? Also two changes out of tons of CDI’s not really much to be proud of. Now if Guild housing is implemented as a direct result of the current CDI, that would be impressive.

I am not saying the CDI’s are useless, but the impact they cause on Arena Nets plans seem minimal and opinions are often misinterpreted. (For example trait changes and mismanaged wardrobe implementation)

Aedelric.1287:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Aedelric.1287:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Yes you have.

Care to elaborate?

I’ll name two:

Wardrobe, Story Journal.

Care to elaborate? Which precise CDI affected change and what was the direct changes? Also two changes out of tons of CDI’s not really much to be proud of. Now if Guild housing is implemented as a direct result of the current CDI, that would be impressive.

No, I don’t care to elaborate, and this time I’m not going to go trawling through the CDIs for the exact post which suggested it. I do know the Wardrobe was offered up by more than one person.

And I don’t care if you don’t think it’s impressive. That’s not what you implied. You implied there weren’t any.

I am not saying the CDI’s are useless, but the impact they cause on Arena Nets plans seem minimal and opinions are often misinterpreted. (For example trait changes and mismanaged wardrobe implementation)

Honestly, if you had to nail me to a solid opinion right now today?

The CDI program is a waste of time and energy, and should have been scrapped before starting this latest round. It should have been choked into nonexistance before it began in favor of something different, since this conversation we’re having right now illustrates just how bad an idea the CDIs were in the first place.

How about withholding rewards till successful event completion? If event fails you get nothing (other than usual xp, karma, gold) and if it succeeds you get the loot from all the champs that you tagged. Also, rewards can be scaled for time i.e. 1 champ killed in successful 2 minute event would drop a better reward than 20 champs killed in successful 30 minute event.

I think the OP has found the right cause of many problems but hasn’t suggested the right solution. To my mind, the introduction of the champion purses was not fully analyzed by the designers. The purses changed the game rewards across events, open world, dungeons, all sorts of content. It cut across the original reward system in a clumsy way. So yes the purses have caused a lot of problems and due to the lack of analysis the problems are continually being exposed in the live game rather than prevented by good design.

I don’t think the champion purses can be just removed now though. It would be just as traumatic a change to the loot system as their introduction was. The concept of players mobilizing to fight in end game zones against scaled up foes for better loot is fine. The delivery isn’t so fine but that concept should stay. Fighting scaling up foes with extra challenge for no extra reward was the original problem that champion purses were brought in to solve.

The real problem with event rewards is that nobody wants the event rewards. Karma and experience are meaningless to most players. This means that events are completed for other rewards than the actual event rewards and this will always pervert the design.

MikeyGrey.2496:

How about withholding rewards till successful event completion? If event fails you get nothing (other than usual xp, karma, gold) and if it succeeds you get the loot from all the champs that you tagged.

All players should always have every encouragement to join any event at any time for a share of the rewards. They should not be dissuaded by a lack of loot if it fails. We should not throw away this good design principle just to clean up the loot problems.

(Farmers should not prevent other players from having a nice game to play).

Stooperdale.3560:

(Farmers should not prevent other players from having a nice game to play).

And other players should not prevent farmers from having a nice farm to farm

This is two sided you say farmers should let players play though and your right they should. But you have to understand that there is not alot of ways for most people to make gold in this game. (tp dungeons blah blah blah nerfed and/or boring) The biggest issue i fined is that the rewards for events are pitiful. but this is nerfnet and the only thing they do is nerf rewards never increase.

Replace all boxes, bags, etc

Instead of a champ box, loot bag, etc, I propose that the applicable foe drop the equivalent of what the content of the container would usually be.

Why? Because the more containers we get, the less our loot is affected by magic find.

My proposal makes magic find more relevant and keeps the motivation for players to fight champs.

That said, champs give crappy loot per minute compared to scaled up mobs.

The perspective of someone with over 5,600 hours since launch and so many of those farming the various events.

Example.. Look how amazing Arah defense loot is, with only a minimal number of champs, compared to the Penitent-to-jofast insanity of champs when a reasonable sized zerg is participating.

Finally: farmers are good for controlling inflation, as the goods they put on the trading post are taking gold out of the economy. (Ie: fees). Providing non-toxic farming opportunities is where we will find the best solution,

Dieallknow.1387:

Stooperdale.3560:

(Farmers should not prevent other players from having a nice game to play).

And other players should not prevent farmers from having a nice farm to farm

What I meant was that the designers shouldn’t take nice things away from players just because farmers were causing trouble.

I don’t really care if farmers have anywhere to farm or not. Good game design should reward enjoyable, challenging, successful activities. If that was in place then everyone would be wanting the same content and there would be no distinction between farmers, fun players, achievers, or anyone else.

Stooperdale.3560:

MikeyGrey.2496:

How about withholding rewards till successful event completion? If event fails you get nothing (other than usual xp, karma, gold) and if it succeeds you get the loot from all the champs that you tagged.

All players should always have every encouragement to join any event at any time for a share of the rewards. They should not be dissuaded by a lack of loot if it fails. We should not throw away this good design principle just to clean up the loot problems.

(Farmers should not prevent other players from having a nice game to play).

Look at it from the other perspective. Successful completion of events would grant comparatively greater rewards. Farmers still get the bags they wanted by tagging whosoever they target but because of restricted time, focus is shifted to completing event. Quicker event completion would yield greater reward from those bags they get and those not wanting to farm still get their event completed. As it stands now, its a compromise between scaling event higher to spawn champs and farm (at the cost of event completion) or finish quickly but get mediocre rewards.

I have a better solution, create an event, somewhere in an out of the way area, but in a high level zone specifically for those that want to farm Champion bags, it could even be an event that restarts sooner with failure. I’m thinking a 30 minute timer on failure, 90 minutes on success, the event spawns a minimum of 10 Super Champions(lvl 90)…and then you can keep the Champion Bags in the game. It would satisfy the Champion farmers by allowing them to have an event all their own, and they could then leave all the other events alone.

Zaklex.6308:

I have a better solution, create an event, somewhere in an out of the way area, but in a high level zone specifically for those that want to farm Champion bags, it could even be an event that restarts sooner with failure. I’m thinking a 30 minute timer on failure, 90 minutes on success, the event spawns a minimum of 10 Super Champions(lvl 90)…and then you can keep the Champion Bags in the game. It would satisfy the Champion farmers by allowing them to have an event all their own, and they could then leave all the other events alone.

Flip that. More rewards for success. Still want to keep people from just killing 90% of the champs and sitting around until the event fails.

MikeyGrey.2496:

Look at it from the other perspective. Successful completion of events would grant comparatively greater rewards.

Comparatively to what? I bet that any such change would include a nerf to average reward gain. This is Anet, after all, and their idea of rewarding loot is… well, not so good, to put it mildly.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

I run dungeons if I want to and the dungeons paid for most of the armors gear and trinkets of 14 characters, as well as secondary armors, ascended weapons, and 2 legendaries…

Right. And where do the mats you bought from the TP to craft those came from?

Yep.

Farmers.

So warduke, are you ready to pay 10s per T5 mat? Because that’s gonna happen if you have your way. If you have your way, even YOU might have to start farming for mats. The irony.

Kasima.8143:

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

I run dungeons if I want to and the dungeons paid for most of the armors gear and trinkets of 14 characters, as well as secondary armors, ascended weapons, and 2 legendaries…

Right. And where do the mats you bought from the TP to craft those came from?

Yep.

Farmers.

So warduke, are you ready to pay 10s per T5 mat? Because that’s gonna happen if you have your way. If you have your way, even YOU might have to start farming for mats. The irony.

Great points.

It’s a shame people will be surprised when the prices of their mats go up. It should be a simple concept to grasp. Oh well. Maybe they want a substantial price increase or a shortage. idk.

The problem isn’t the bags, it’s the players.

I just want to add that people were doing the queens dale champ train before champ bags, and they were doing the queens dale train even though many other zones gave better loot.

For all of the forum whining about toxic players, the player base legitimately loved the queens dale train.

Even now, even though some of the champions are completely gone, and most of the others neerfed in some way, queens dale map chat still gets excited for champions.

I didn’t love the queens dale train but it shouldn’t have been nerfed. People loved it.

Prophet.6257:

Zaklex.6308:

I have a better solution, create an event, somewhere in an out of the way area, but in a high level zone specifically for those that want to farm Champion bags, it could even be an event that restarts sooner with failure. I’m thinking a 30 minute timer on failure, 90 minutes on success, the event spawns a minimum of 10 Super Champions(lvl 90)…and then you can keep the Champion Bags in the game. It would satisfy the Champion farmers by allowing them to have an event all their own, and they could then leave all the other events alone.

Flip that. More rewards for success. Still want to keep people from just killing 90% of the champs and sitting around until the event fails.

I agree, but what I was proposing was also a bit of sarcasm, however, if you read my statement again, the entire point of an event such as the one I described is to fail, not to succeed. Granted it would be better to have superior rewards for succeeding rather than failing, it’s not the event rewards that the Champ Farmers are after, it’s the bags that the Champs themselves drop. Improving the rewards from successful completion of an event still doesn’t take away the demand to get the bags from the Champs. I’ll illustrate my point using the Blix event before it was fixed with a longer timer between starts after failure. On average you could spawn anywhere from 6 – 8 Champs during Blix, if you managed to tag all of the spawned Champs that was lot of bags, and if they event kept failing and starting within a minute, you could conceivably obtain, let’s be concervative and say 30 Champ bags in an hour(and I know that’s a low ball number). Now, to even equal that amount of loot for a successful completion, imagine the amount of rewards that would have to be given, not withstanding that most of the loot from Champ bags is not always that great. That is the conundrum that is faced by A.net, can it be resolved, sure, but it would take thinking outside the box, and I think a combination of things would be most effective.

Blude.6812:

Aedelric.1287:

Astralporing.1957:

Bloodstealer.5978:

I would say this kind of thread warrants a CDI.. but that of course wont happen

There was a CDI about rewards already. Didn’t help any, of course.

Has the CDI ever accomplished anything?

I respect Chris and his attempt at communicating with the fans, but I have never seen anything substantial implemented in game as a direct result from the CDI.

Exactly! +1.

He promised a top 10 list of additions resulting from the CDI.

When it came time to deliver, he put it it off for a day.

A few days later, it was put on permanent hiatus until after the Guild CDI.

In other words, we’re never going to see it.

Sariel V.7024:

Blude.6812:

Aedelric.1287:

Astralporing.1957:

Bloodstealer.5978:

I would say this kind of thread warrants a CDI.. but that of course wont happen

There was a CDI about rewards already. Didn’t help any, of course.

Has the CDI ever accomplished anything?

I respect Chris and his attempt at communicating with the fans, but I have never seen anything substantial implemented in game as a direct result from the CDI.

Exactly! +1.

He promised a top 10 list of additions resulting from the CDI.

When it came time to deliver, he put it it off for a day.

A few days later, it was put on permanent hiatus until after the Guild CDI.

In other words, we’re never going to see it.

And we’ll never see SAB either despite them saying they intend to bring it back in the future.

It’s also equally likely they’re secretly planning to have Canthans invade from asura gates they seized and take over Lion’s Arch to rebuild it as New Kaineng. And thus we will have Cantha at last . . .

My post had two points, neither of which you were privy to, now understand, nor figured out.

I’m not interested in elaborating.

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

No

No as an answer is a clear answer, but not adding anything to the discussion, why not?

Because I like champion bags and it actually gives me an incentive to kill champs.

While I agree that “Bad” farmers can create a inhospitable environment, I do not agree that removing or nerfing champ bags would be a good way to combat this.

I like the idea of granting rewards only at the end of the chain, however, those that are just passing through and happen to come across an event in the middle of the chain, do the event and carry on their merry way, won’t be rewarded for completing that event.

I was thinking about a solution, of course this is just a random idea, and I don’t know how well it will be recieved, but what about scaling down events after a fail? So event A is completed, and can spawn several champs. Event B starts, but is intentionally failed to restart event A. When event A restarts, it no longer spawns champs, and spawns elites instead. Another failure of B respawns vets, and so on. Maybe also have events scale up as you progress the chain. Event A spawns 1 champ, event B spawns 2, Event C spawns 3, and so on. Add in a reduced cool down for the chain so farmers can be happy, those who want to do the chain can be happy, and everyone wins.

This way, champs can still be farmed, and there is far less incentive to fail events, and more incentive to actually complete the events.

Sariel V.7024:

Blude.6812:

Aedelric.1287:

Astralporing.1957:

Bloodstealer.5978:

I would say this kind of thread warrants a CDI.. but that of course wont happen

There was a CDI about rewards already. Didn’t help any, of course.

Has the CDI ever accomplished anything?

I respect Chris and his attempt at communicating with the fans, but I have never seen anything substantial implemented in game as a direct result from the CDI.

Exactly! +1.

He promised a top 10 list of additions resulting from the CDI.

When it came time to deliver, he put it it off for a day.

A few days later, it was put on permanent hiatus until after the Guild CDI.

In other words, we’re never going to see it.

No guys – that negative thinking.
I’m sure it’s going to come right after the Fractal Leaderboards. Those of you who’ve been here long enough will know.

Harper.4173:

Sariel V.7024:

Blude.6812:

Aedelric.1287:

Astralporing.1957:

Bloodstealer.5978:

I would say this kind of thread warrants a CDI.. but that of course wont happen

There was a CDI about rewards already. Didn’t help any, of course.

Has the CDI ever accomplished anything?

I respect Chris and his attempt at communicating with the fans, but I have never seen anything substantial implemented in game as a direct result from the CDI.

Exactly! +1.

He promised a top 10 list of additions resulting from the CDI.

When it came time to deliver, he put it it off for a day.

A few days later, it was put on permanent hiatus until after the Guild CDI.

In other words, we’re never going to see it.

No guys – that negative thinking.
I’m sure it’s going to come right after the Fractal Leaderboards. Those of you who’ve been here long enough will know.

Was that before mounts, but after precursor crafting? Or was it with an expansion, but not before Cantha?

Harper.4173:

Sariel V.7024:

Blude.6812:

Aedelric.1287:

Astralporing.1957:

Bloodstealer.5978:

I would say this kind of thread warrants a CDI.. but that of course wont happen

There was a CDI about rewards already. Didn’t help any, of course.

Has the CDI ever accomplished anything?

I respect Chris and his attempt at communicating with the fans, but I have never seen anything substantial implemented in game as a direct result from the CDI.

Exactly! +1.

He promised a top 10 list of additions resulting from the CDI.

When it came time to deliver, he put it it off for a day.

A few days later, it was put on permanent hiatus until after the Guild CDI.

In other words, we’re never going to see it.

No guys – that negative thinking.
I’m sure it’s going to come right after the Fractal Leaderboards. Those of you who’ve been here long enough will know.

Nope, it a bait and switch—-we’ll set up a CDI a and players can contibute. The Players will become excited and present ideas, then they can be ignored and when the thread becomes so big it will die.
So much to fix they rally don’t need any CDI, and why not set up an expansion CDI?
I don’t even bother with them anymore and just role my eyes when another one is announced.
As to remove the champ bags —NO way to suport that in any way shape or form.

How about no, OP?