Guild Wars 2

Dashingsteel.3410:

If they would award tokens each time you complete a festival event( bell choir, windersday jp, infinitarium, snowball fight) and then have a token requirement to get the collectibles. That way people could have played the content they enjoyed and get the skin too.

I’d be game for that alternative. Options…always good thing.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Dashingsteel.3410:

If they would award tokens each time you complete a festival event( bell choir, windersday jp, infinitarium, snowball fight) and then have a token requirement to get the collectibles. That way people could have played the content they enjoyed and get the skin too.

I’d be game for that alternative. Options…always good thing.

Eat 10,000 fruit cakes

I think it’s a kitten sham this JP is apart of the shoulder’s quest. I have MS irl, diagnosed 10 years ago, and… it’s killed some mobility in my hands and it’s greatly reduced my response time.

Therefore, I cannot even get past 10 snowflakes before they melt and fall. I have been trying this for going on 4 hours straight today, 3 hours yesterday and am I meant to believe that Cannot have these shoulders because I’m handicapped irl? Seriously?

I’m beginning to lose a LOT a faith in Anet lately. I’m beginning to not even want to log in somedays with all the things “required” to do something to get what I want.

I am all for challenging content, but this is… unreasaonable. I’m sorry.

Torolan.5816:

TexZero.7910:

Torolan.5816:

TexZero.7910:

Rayzah.4235:

So please tell me how I can improve my reaction time

By not making excuses and actively going out of your way, even though it may not be appealing or easy and just taking small steps.

Eventually you will build up muscle memory and be able to do the puzzle almost instinctively.

Seriously, I tried to stop reading after “it may not be appealing”, but I just could not do it. The fascinating point here is, you´re not even wrong. But what is this, a game or some kind of physiotheraphy? Muscle memory to make unappealing content is an actual argument in an MMO? People are not recovering from an accident, they are looking for fun in their spare time…

Fun is relative though. Rewards are concrete however, the item is a reward, not fun.

You can do many things for fun, you have to do many things to be rewarded. That’s the difference.

Again it may not be something you actively enjoy, personally i hate the bell choir game. Am i going to let my own rhythmic ineptitude stop me from trying ? No. Eventually i’ll be able to complete a song and not feel hopeless.

Do i think they could have been nice and made the achievement items sell-able and have limitless repeatable acquisition, sure. But then you’d open up a can of worms where-in people complain about Gold being all that’s required for the unique skin.

Is there potentially another solution ? Sure.
Do i think removing part of the requirements is ever going to be it ? No.

And again, it is hard to argue against the logic of the argument. But I thought until recently that it was the job to make a game fun for a company if it wants to sell it? You offer a solution like a mechanic that repairs a volvo with functionality as the goal, not fun or aestethics. And I seriously doubt that this can help a game like GW2 stay afloat in the future.

Of course you can argue that a reward has a fixed schedule to get it as it is a reward and wants to be earned. But it still does kind of not make sense to say people that they simply can´t have it then if a funny game is your product. It would make sense if we were all working in the accounting department of a comany though.

I get what your saying, fun and rewarding doesn’t have to be mutually exclusive, and i agree.

However, there’s a problem with this. Who determines what is fun ? Some people surely enjoy the jumping puzzles, are they not having fun ? Would removing said content requirement diminish their fun ?

To be fair like i said you can’t ask objectively what fun is. At the end of the day, you are working to a goal. Sometimes that’s fun as it’s something you want to do. Other times it’s not.

There are solutions that could have been taken, that were missed this year. As such its extremely unlikely to change (based on history). All Anet can do given the current time frame is read suggestions and iterate on it for next wintersday (or even the next Festival).

I don’t vote for the removal of the JP as a requirement, just modify the requirement of it.

Right now, you have to “complete” it 3 times in order for it to count towards those shoulders.

Can we just modify that to, we have to take part in 3 rounds, rather than complete it? Cause that, at the very least, give those of us who have problems completing it, it would give us credit that we tried at least?

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think a couple of things might help with the JP hate.

1) Remove or modify the built in timers (mainly the health degen, snowflake rotation doesnt seem to bad)

Or

2) Give us our skills back and let us help each other.

If I remember right they took the skills away because some people were complaining about other players giving them swiftness when they didn’t want any thus ruining the timing for them.

Takoyakii.2146:

This jumping puzzle is fairly easy to learn honestly.

And… it’s comments like these that I loathe. Honestly.

I’m glad it’s fairly easy for you to learn, but… that’s you, get it?

Honestly, I wish to God, they would give the jumping puzzles a rest. If i wanted to play Mario I would. At the very LEAST, please don’t gate gear or collection requirements by them.

They aren’t fun. They are just annoying and frustrating. I mean i just LOVE falling from a great height and dying when i am near the end of one and having to redo the whole thing.. this is just WONDERFUL!!!!

Please stop doing this for the love of God PLEASE!

I’m glad my post has at least started a dialog on this. Maybe at least if they are not going to change it this year, that they can maybe get some feedback and change it next year, and offer the shoulder piece again. I do like the post about getting a certain item (like tokens of some sort), for whatever wintersday activity you want to do. Hell I’d even do Trix 70 times over trying to do that JP again.

I like this JP.

The easiest path for me, personally, is the right-most lane; furthest out as it is pretty straight forward.

When I first attempted this JP, like any other seemingly difficult one I looked up straight away on YT on how to complete it. There are many ways. But that one was easiest.

I recommend putting settings to lowest if your PC is having problems, and play a relatively small character. (I was on max size Norn and boy did I make so many mistakes haha).

I agree over time, with effort, your body grows accustomed to where the jump pads are and eventually it will be embedded in memory so you know exactly what is next and where to go; my only gripe is the middle part of the JP where all the presents pop and can really ruin your day if another player jumps ahead and causes presents to pop.

Also the annoying “RNG” invisible snowballs; I’ve been knocked off/around by nothing. It’s weird.

I hope this helps those who are still struggling. Maybe I can post a video showing the easiest way I find.

I strongly disagree with the idea of removing JP from the shoulder req.
This sets a very bad precedence if this happens… i can see it now…

“It’s too hard to pvp and my fingers hurt from pvping to much… please remove pvp from the requirements of the legendary pvp back piece”

I’ve literally done this jp over 50 times. I’m just banking gifts

Anet still hasn’t given us a proper colorblind option, which is very disheartening considering it’s been requested since the game was released. Sadly, it’s doubtful they will do anything for handicapped individuals who can’t do the JP – happy Wintersday, indeed.

Risingashes.8694:

> People that suffer from carpal tunnel or arthritis are pretty much SOL

A game should not be designed around people with medical conditions.

Having empathy for people with niche requirements is a good thing to do, but there’s a gigantic chasm between accommodation and breaking the game for other people to serve a slither of the population.

There are enough medical conditions that cover such a wide range of abilities that literally every piece of content couldn’t be used as a requirement if “every player must be able to do it” was a design philosophy.

Using some extreme examples there. How would removing one requirement from the item break the game?

Makai.3429:

Anet still hasn’t given us a proper colorblind option, which is very disheartening considering it’s been requested since the game was released. Sadly, it’s doubtful they will do anything for handicapped individuals who can’t do the JP – happy Wintersday, indeed.

Risingashes.8694:

> People that suffer from carpal tunnel or arthritis are pretty much SOL

A game should not be designed around people with medical conditions.

Having empathy for people with niche requirements is a good thing to do, but there’s a gigantic chasm between accommodation and breaking the game for other people to serve a slither of the population.

There are enough medical conditions that cover such a wide range of abilities that literally every piece of content couldn’t be used as a requirement if “every player must be able to do it” was a design philosophy.

Using some extreme examples there. How would removing one requirement from the item break the game?

You can refer to this situation as you would refer to marijuana as a gateway drug. Sure, in itself it may not be game-breaking- but what will it lead to? If they remove this, then people will start complaining about how they are terrible at rhythm and can’t complete bell choir. Or they keep getting trash teammates in toypocalypse and snowball mayhem. As soon as ANet shows one crack, it all comes tumbling down. And think about it- what kind of shoulder piece would it be if every player in the game could get it by putting in almost no effort? Not a nice one to have, that’s for dang sure, because everyone else in the game will have it.

FrouFrou.4958:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I think a couple of things might help with the JP hate.

1) Remove or modify the built in timers (mainly the health degen, snowflake rotation doesnt seem to bad)

Or

2) Give us our skills back and let us help each other.

If I remember right they took the skills away because some people were complaining about other players giving them swiftness when they didn’t want any thus ruining the timing for them.

I could see that…yup

ZachAttack.3957:

Makai.3429:

Anet still hasn’t given us a proper colorblind option, which is very disheartening considering it’s been requested since the game was released. Sadly, it’s doubtful they will do anything for handicapped individuals who can’t do the JP – happy Wintersday, indeed.

Risingashes.8694:

> People that suffer from carpal tunnel or arthritis are pretty much SOL

A game should not be designed around people with medical conditions.

Having empathy for people with niche requirements is a good thing to do, but there’s a gigantic chasm between accommodation and breaking the game for other people to serve a slither of the population.

There are enough medical conditions that cover such a wide range of abilities that literally every piece of content couldn’t be used as a requirement if “every player must be able to do it” was a design philosophy.

Using some extreme examples there. How would removing one requirement from the item break the game?

You can refer to this situation as you would refer to marijuana as a gateway drug. Sure, in itself it may not be game-breaking- but what will it lead to? If they remove this, then people will start complaining about how they are terrible at rhythm and can’t complete bell choir. Or they keep getting trash teammates in toypocalypse and snowball mayhem. As soon as ANet shows one crack, it all comes tumbling down. And think about it- what kind of shoulder piece would it be if every player in the game could get it by putting in almost no effort? Not a nice one to have, that’s for dang sure, because everyone else in the game will have it.

The real world makes many accommodations for disabled people. Why should GW2 be any different? People are requesting alternatives to acquiring the skin: not handouts.

Rufus.2651:

Winter’s Presence shoulder item JP requirement? I can try my best to do the other achievements, but the JP is just not going to happen for people that have medical issues with their hands. People that suffer from carpal tunnel or arthritis are pretty much SOL when it comes to doing the JP puzzle once, let alone 3 times. Please consider removing the requirement for the JP ANET!

Please leave it in — I probably can’t do the JP either (I just panic for timed jumping and fall and I stopped having fun trying after the first 10-15 hours of trying, an hour or two at a time).

And so I won’t end up getting Winter’s Presence. That’s OK; there are plenty of other pretty shinies in the game I can get. I’d like to see a few more that aren’t that easy to obtain.

ArenaNet will be selling the shoulders for a couple of gems in a very short time. They don’t care about your efforts and will gladly throw everything you have done out the window for a couple of pennies.

ANET is the cheesiest game company around atm. You can thank Mr O’Brien.

Grim West.3194:

ArenaNet will be selling the shoulders for a couple of gems in a very short time.

Oh my! Where did you learn this information???

(P.S., I… kinda figured Anet didn’t give a crap but… it was still worth a try, right?)

Jaymee.1560:

Grim West.3194:

ArenaNet will be selling the shoulders for a couple of gems in a very short time.

Oh my! Where did you learn this information???

(P.S., I… kinda figured Anet didn’t give a crap but… it was still worth a try, right?)

That is what they always do. And you can bet they will never deny it. I stopped caring about GW2’s cool “UNIQUE” items a long time ago. They don’t exist, because ANET always intends to sell them on the AH after they fleece the people buying tons of mats.

Makai.3429:

ZachAttack.3957:

Makai.3429:

Anet still hasn’t given us a proper colorblind option, which is very disheartening considering it’s been requested since the game was released. Sadly, it’s doubtful they will do anything for handicapped individuals who can’t do the JP – happy Wintersday, indeed.

Risingashes.8694:

> People that suffer from carpal tunnel or arthritis are pretty much SOL

A game should not be designed around people with medical conditions.

Having empathy for people with niche requirements is a good thing to do, but there’s a gigantic chasm between accommodation and breaking the game for other people to serve a slither of the population.

There are enough medical conditions that cover such a wide range of abilities that literally every piece of content couldn’t be used as a requirement if “every player must be able to do it” was a design philosophy.

Using some extreme examples there. How would removing one requirement from the item break the game?

You can refer to this situation as you would refer to marijuana as a gateway drug. Sure, in itself it may not be game-breaking- but what will it lead to? If they remove this, then people will start complaining about how they are terrible at rhythm and can’t complete bell choir. Or they keep getting trash teammates in toypocalypse and snowball mayhem. As soon as ANet shows one crack, it all comes tumbling down. And think about it- what kind of shoulder piece would it be if every player in the game could get it by putting in almost no effort? Not a nice one to have, that’s for dang sure, because everyone else in the game will have it.

The real world makes many accommodations for disabled people. Why should GW2 be any different? People are requesting alternatives to acquiring the skin: not handouts.

So they can put “Disabled Friendly” on the box right?

Literally no other game does that sort of thing. They have keyboards for disabled people, same for controllers. Try those.

Kam.4092:

I’ve done the puzzle about 40-50 times now, and I have carpel tunnel, and arthritis.

Stop complaining and actually learn it

Thank you very much for not paying to a word of what most of us are truly complaining about.

I miss the good old days — when GW2 actually had a friendly, helpful community.

Happy Wintersday, everyone.

Supernaut.2684:

I miss the good old days — when GW2 actually had a friendly, helpful community.

Happy Wintersday, everyone.

It still does have a friendly helpful community.

Keep in mind the forum posting is less than 5% of the player base. Of that there’s a extremely vocal minority on these forums who may present some form of toxicity. Your odds of running into any one of them in game is likely to be around 2% at best unless you actively go out of your way to find them.

Most of this thread has been a fairly civil discussion with the majority of people agreeing that something should change, be it tokens, the achievement changed to attempts instead of completions or something entirely different.

So i’m confused why you would go out of your way to post something that would only go as far as to stir the pot instead of contributing actively.

I dunno. It’s pretty hard to be helpful in this case when people not actually … well.. what should I say.

Makai.3429:

The real world makes many accommodations for disabled people. Why should GW2 be any different? People are requesting alternatives to acquiring the skin: not handouts.

++++++1

I work within the disability community and the lack of understanding and empathy here is incredibly disturbing. This issue is not about “entitlement” or asking for “handouts”. It is not even about making the achievement easier. People are just asking for Anet to design the game to accommodate a wider demographic by creating more options. There is no logical reason that the jp has to be part of the achievement, nor does it have to be removed. All that is required of Anet would be to create more options for HOW one completes the achievement to get the shoulder skin. It already does this for many things, such as dailies, were you can pick which tasks to do in order to complete the overarching achievement.

Furthermore, “practicing” is not always the answer. Yes, practice will help many people but for others, practice alone will not enable them to overcome serious disadvantages like missing limbs; deteriorating reflexes; serious medical impairments; or, countless other challenges.

No one is asking for the impossible – a game that is everything to everyone, but there is no reason why Anet could not provide people with more options for how they obtain something as special as the winter day shoulder armour, especially considering the time of year :/

Happy Winterday….

TexZero.7910:

(Snip) So i’m confused why you would go out of your way to post something that would only go as far as to stir the pot instead of contributing actively.

Point well taken. But please allow me to explain myself. I didn’t “contribute actively” in the sense of trying to pose solutions to players having difficulty with the content, because I don’t really have any solution. ANet has chosen to rely more and more on platforming for content, and that’s just the direction the game is going. End of story.

Some people struggle with platforming content, and they are expressing their frustration and discontent. That’s fine; that kind of thing doesn’t really work for everyone. What I struggle with, though, is other players berating and belittling them for expressing that frustration and discontent. That’s just toxic. I mean, seriously… are people afraid that ANet is actually going to change the requirements for the achievements? Not going to happen.

So yeah, my statement about missing the friendliness of the GW2 community was perhaps a bit sarcastic (and I’ll own that), but — what I was really hoping might happen was for people to read that and maybe stop and take a look at themselves for a moment, before they start to spew a lot of kitten about people who aren’t just like them.

At the end of the day, if you can’t muster up a shred of compassion and empathy for others, you need to stop and take a look at that. It’s worth it.

So yeah, I apologize if my last post came off as sarcastic or offensive. I never intended to offend anyone; I was just trying to draw people’s attention to a very real problem.

And, lest I forget: Happy Wintersday, everyone.

Silvatar.5379:

Makai.3429:

The real world makes many accommodations for disabled people. Why should GW2 be any different? People are requesting alternatives to acquiring the skin: not handouts.

++++++1

I work within the disability community and the lack of understanding and empathy here is incredibly disturbing. This issue is not about “entitlement” or asking for “handouts”. It is not even about making the achievement easier. People are just asking for Anet to design the game to accommodate a wider demographic by creating more options. There is no logical reason that the jp has to be part of the achievement, nor does it have to be removed. All that is required of Anet would be to create more options for HOW one completes the achievement to get the shoulder skin. It already does this for many things, such as dailies, were you can pick which tasks to do in order to complete the overarching achievement.

Furthermore, “practicing” is not always the answer. Yes, practice will help many people but for others, practice alone will not enable them to overcome serious disadvantages like missing limbs; deteriorating reflexes; serious medical impairments; or, countless other challenges.

No one is asking for the impossible – a game that is everything to everyone, but there is no reason why Anet could not provide people with more options for how they obtain something as special as the winter day shoulder armour, especially considering the time of year :/

Happy Winterday….

Clearly these people just don’t get it: it’s not at all about entitlement or marginalizing the challenge: it’s all about leveling the playing field (just like many government and private institutions attempt in real life). Hopefully they’ll have a greater understanding and appreciation for this issue as they get older.

I’ve worked in publishing for several years, and like most magazines, my company moved to digital exclusive in early 2014. The platform we used was not as friendly for people with limited vision as we originally thought, and as such we switched to a different program with greater zoom functionality, audio cues for turning certain pages, and other necessary features to help our audience. Getting our graphics designer accustomed to the new system was a bit rocky at first, but it turned out well in the end. A few weeks later we received many emails from subscribers and advertisers thanking us for the switch, and letting us know they would help promote the publication out of appreciation for our goodwill.

Obviously companies cannot account for every disability, but Anet should strive to create greater accessibility where and when it can (How long has the colorblind thread been up? I still can’t place bombs in the Dredge fractal.): it’s not just ethical; it’s smart business.

On a personal aside, thank you for your service to the disabled community.

If you cannot or won’t do what’s required to gain this item, then I recommend you ask yourself the following question. “Why on earth would I want a shoulder skin, the displaying of which advertises that I let Anet convince me to grind an absurd amount of requirements?” You either are the sort of person that enjoys this sort of grinding and this level of completionism, or you aren’t. If you are, then that item is a badge of achievement. If you aren’t, then this is not a reward for you.

I say this with all due respect to those who have physical issues. With arthritis in my hands, I have had to accept that there are some things in GW2 I will not get to do. However, I have also accepted that everything that comes out does not have to be “for me.” There are an awful lot of people playing the game, and many have different itches they want scratched. Developers ought to put things in the game for these different groups.

Makai.3429:

Silvatar.5379:

Makai.3429:

The real world makes many accommodations for disabled people. Why should GW2 be any different? People are requesting alternatives to acquiring the skin: not handouts.

++++++1

I work within the disability community and the lack of understanding and empathy here is incredibly disturbing. This issue is not about “entitlement” or asking for “handouts”. It is not even about making the achievement easier. People are just asking for Anet to design the game to accommodate a wider demographic by creating more options. There is no logical reason that the jp has to be part of the achievement, nor does it have to be removed. All that is required of Anet would be to create more options for HOW one completes the achievement to get the shoulder skin. It already does this for many things, such as dailies, were you can pick which tasks to do in order to complete the overarching achievement.

Furthermore, “practicing” is not always the answer. Yes, practice will help many people but for others, practice alone will not enable them to overcome serious disadvantages like missing limbs; deteriorating reflexes; serious medical impairments; or, countless other challenges.

No one is asking for the impossible – a game that is everything to everyone, but there is no reason why Anet could not provide people with more options for how they obtain something as special as the winter day shoulder armour, especially considering the time of year :/

Happy Winterday….

Clearly these people just don’t get it: it’s not at all about entitlement or marginalizing the challenge: it’s all about leveling the playing field (just like many government and private institutions attempt in real life). Hopefully they’ll have a greater understanding and appreciation for this issue as they get older.

I’ve worked in publishing for several years, and like most magazines, my company moved to digital exclusive in early 2014. The platform we used was not as friendly for people with limited vision as we originally thought, and as such we switched to a different program with greater zoom functionality, audio cues for turning certain pages, and other necessary features to help our audience. Getting our graphics designer accustomed to the new system was a bit rocky at first, but it turned out well in the end. A few weeks later we received many emails from subscribers and advertisers thanking us for the switch, and letting us know they would help promote the publication out of appreciation for our goodwill.

Obviously companies cannot account for every disability, but Anet should strive to create greater accessibility where and when it can (How long has the colorblind thread been up? I still can’t place bombs in the Dredge fractal.): it’s not just ethical; it’s smart business.

On a personal aside, thank you for your service to the disabled community.

Yeah, they should also strive for being inclusive for all the casuals too.

Not many people have the time/mind to seriously grind through 12000~ presents for 10000 drinks. They’d have more success not just being inclusive to the diabilities, but also people who realistically don’t have that much time from real life to realistically grind through 12000 presents. Those are the adult customers that’d actually more likely to spend Gem on Gem store if they’re happy in-game, since they usually would just buy stuffs from Gem Store due to having limited time for in-game gold.

Tried both the Halloween and Wintersday Jumping Puzzles for 3 years, never cleared one of them. The timed aspect is just too difficult. Yeah yeah yeah, I know it can be done. Good for you, those who can clear. But I just can’t, and making this one of the compulsory things to do for the Winter’s Presence skin is just bad form.

To all those helpful people commenting on muscle memory and memory in peoples abilities too not complete the jumping puzzle due too detrimental health affects upon hand movement please stop.
Not all conditions affect hands the same and in my case repetitive movement is the exact problem the more I have to do it the more damage on the fingers in particular and then the slower the movement, nothing to do with muscle memory at all. I play this game too keep my fingers mobile as my condition will deteriorate to the point where I can no longer move my hands or wrists as do many of the peoples cases I have read.
A simple solution too it would have been too make the present explosion times the same as the snowflake, thus giving a small degree of leeway or to have created a midway spawn point as they have on other jumping puzzles.No achievement should cause their player base, however small the group that may be affected, distress and physical pain.
And of course they care, they are running a buisness they cant afford too not care and alienate people, usually older players with the greater spending power,i.e. more disposable income. But what they do ask for is constructive criticism and feedback with ideas for solutions etc not just complaints

Please remove also everything else and give it out for free. Because I can’t play any event at all.

PS: How are people doing the Bell event stuff? The JP is like super easy compared to that one.