Guild Wars 2

Remove or nerf those noob builds.

Im talking about no risk-high reward builds like condi mesmer, trap thief, The damage of Berserkers and dragonhunters aswell rev’s.

If you dont want to nerf the dmg, nerf survivability.

Lets create builds like power shatter mesmers or rifle engis or s/f eles.

lets make high risk high reward or low risk low reward builds….

New Players should be NOT able to kill good Players just because of the build.

HA!
I knew this day would come they laughed but I knew it!

They removed clone death and nixed underwater progress because of people like TC in the name of Esports and these ESPORTS players won’t stop till they’ve nerfed or removed every mechanic that they don’t like. Anet caring more for them than the rest of us will no doubt comply with them as history has shown this to be true.

If the worlds ending nothing I can really do I’m not about the ESPORTS and uber builds I’m a filthy casual who liked to play clone death before it was completely removed from the game and now I just do dailies every now and then. Nothing else for me to do but watch and see how far TC’s post for elitism goes.

Grabs a chair and Popcorn

Toasa.1236:

New Players should be NOT able to kill good Players just because of the build.

Good players don’t die. :P

PVP was more fun before HoT. I don’t think they can fix it easy, because they need to remove tons of mechanics. Mesmers is not a problem compared to unkillable warriors and “block everything” engis/guards.

How exactly would Anet “remove a build?” Anet doesn’t dictate what gets played, players choose.

Why isn’t this in the PvP section?

Maybe those ‘dying’ should use the ‘noob builds’. /shrug

ezd.6359:

PVP was more fun before HoT. I don’t think they can fix it easy, because they need to remove tons of mechanics. Mesmers is not a problem compared to unkillable warriors and “block everything” engis/guards.

Count WvW to that aswell. Bet next expansion all classes get 100% stealth/block uptime and condi dmg will be increased by 500% aswell a galore of new CC’s will be added.

Not to mention that there is no such thing as a no risk – high rewards build. Condi mesmers die, trap thieves die, berserker’s, dragonhunters and revenants all die, just like everybody else. Cry me a river!

Toasa – what exactly are you proposing?

I understand you want these builds removed from the game but how would you do that if you were the person at Anet who got to make the call?

I assume you’re not thinking of anything as drastic as removing all conditions from mesmers, all traps from thieves, all damage from dragonhunters etc. Are there specific skills or traits you’d like to see removed or changed? Which ones are they, and how would you change them?

You request is much more likely to be taken seriously and actually get somewhere if you can provide some details rather than a vague demand that an undefined list of builds be ‘removed’ from the game.

Toasa.1236:

Remove or nerf those noob builds.

Im talking about no risk-high reward builds like condi mesmer, trap thief, The damage of Berserkers and dragonhunters aswell rev’s.

If you dont want to nerf the dmg, nerf survivability.

How about no?

Toasa.1236:

New Players should be NOT able to kill good Players just because of the build.

As esports/‘1337’ players are constantly saying to everyone else: ‘git gud’.

Menadena.7482:

Toasa.1236:

Remove or nerf those noob builds.

Im talking about no risk-high reward builds like condi mesmer, trap thief, The damage of Berserkers and dragonhunters aswell rev’s.

If you dont want to nerf the dmg, nerf survivability.

How about no?

Hmmmm… “no” sounds good to me too. Let’s go with “no”.

A few changes I would like to see that would not only make the game better, but also make balancing easier:

• Change traps and marks so that the CD only starts after the mark/trap is triggered or they time out (oh yea, this would also involve putting a reasonable time out on traps/marks in all game modes). These skills should be balanced around this.

• Remove passive procs. Ideally all passive procs would be removed from the game, however realistically I want to see ~50-75% of the passive procs removed. I honestly believe that with the direction ANet went with HoT that simply removing all passive procs would now be a bad move, so I want to move towards severely limiting the amount of passive procs in this game. At the very least all passive procs that deal damage or activate invuln skills need to be removed. Stuff like Hunter’s Determination, Versed in Stone, Pulsating Pestilence, Defy Pain etc…

• Skills should have 1 or 2 things that they do, no more. SoTM is still a prime example of exactly what NOT to do with a skill ANet. Damage, CC, and evade built into a single skill, and you don’t even have to trait for any of it.

• Auto attack chains should not be applying conditions or boons. Its too easy, contributes to boon/condi spam like crazy, and makes it absurdly easy to apply cover condis throughout the entire fight. I could maybe, maybe, be convinced that its ok for each class to have 1 auto chain that applies a boon/condi on the third hit only, but that’s it. The only exceptions to this would be auto attacks whose sole purpose is to apply condis and do negligible damage on their own (eg mesmer staff auto)

• Resistance should be nerfed. It should be nerfed to 50% or 33% reduction in condi damage, and have stacks. Each stack allows you to ignore 1 soft CC condi until the stack runs out. So 1 stack of resistance would no longer make you completely immune to conditions. Conditions should then be rebalanced entirely around the new Resistance boon. Fundamentally though they will never be balanced as long as there is a single boon that allows you to ignore all conditions in the game at once. They need to be balanced around a reasonable resistance boon that is the proper equivalent of protection.

DeanBB.4268:

How exactly would Anet “remove a build?” Anet doesn’t dictate what gets played.

How would Anet remove a build? – They don’t remove it, they break it. 55 monks along with ele/mes in GW1 have horror stories to tell you. As do berserker mesmers as of last year or so. Whenever a build is good and a lot of people are playing it, Anet destroys it. They’re not the type to let something good last. It’s just how they are. It’s how they’ve been since the beginning.

If you notice they didn’t break berserker meta directly, they just added insane condition damage and knockdown to everything in HoT in order to force people to use different builds. So yes, they do dictate what gets played either by breaking the build or jacking with the mobs. Anet started this problem by creating all of these stat combos then create content where the builds and gear has no application. It’s why the berserker meta existed for so long. All the other stat combos and talent synergies were pointless.

As far as how they would remove a build? They removed ricochet and a lot of other synergies from the talents that made thief pistol builds pretty much garbage outside of open world PvE. I agree with the OP, there are builds in this game that need to be removed and some that should have been removed way before they were. ie; Fresh Air Ele and berserker mes with infinite clones, infinite invis and the >9000 damage talent to people without buffs.

Toasa.1236:

New Players should be NOT able to kill good Players just because of the build.

Good builds don’t get killed by new players.

You, uh, may be holding that manual upside down. Removing or (nerfing) a build will shift the meta, not halt it completely.

Be careful what you wish for, because at some point your ‘good player’ build will find itself on the chopping block if you cut down enough people you assume to not be trying as hard.

Noob builds don’t kill other players; players kill other players.

Toasa.1236:

trap thief

(…)

If you dont want to nerf the dmg, nerf survivability.

(…)

New Players should be NOT able to kill good Players just because of the build.

How could a good player get possibly killed by a thief trapper? All you need is 1) something to cure immobilize, 2) 50 endurance, 3) any form of AoE to see (or not since he’s stealthed) him bite the ground. Seriously, a perma-stealth trappers is possibly the easiest build to defeat, provided you know how it works (which was kinda implied by being a “good player”).

It’s like those players standing still against a staff thief and complaining thereafter Vault is OP…

I’m a huge fan of the old video-games. I grew up with NES and SNES and loved RPGs and Jump&Runs equally. I always enjoyed the idea of selecting a personal difficulty level, to make the game either easier or more challenging. GW2 still is a videogame and I truly beleive we do have the three difficulty levels – easy, medium and hard.

Easy
That is basically what the OP called “noob builds.” Most people call them metas. Predefined setups of character-class, equipment, passives and skills with recommended rotations. The least ammount of flexibilty and free will, for the highest efficiency and the lowest chance of failure and defeat. As in the old games, the easy mode only grants you access to the basics. A narrowed view of what is possible. You get an idea of the whole thing, but nothing more. A demo if you say so.

Medium
This allows you to select between most classes, pick up an own setup, create own gear with unique stats and use a lot more passives and skills than on easy mode. As with the other games, there is ofcourse a greater chance of defeat and failure. But you have access to a big part of the game. Also as in the old games, playing on medium requires experience and some detailed knowledge. Or you die a lot. You may never be as quick as on easy. Still you do rely on common sense, calculate your stats and make your decisions upon your own feeling of what is good or not. Some possibilities are still locked as they look just horribly stupid, even to you.

Hard
This grants you access to everything. You can use every class, every skill, every piece of gear you like and give a kitten about efficienty. Sadly this mode grants you access to the largest pool of failures and defeats. People who play on hard, often use additional handicaps, like playing without runes, or ignoring the recommended group size. You can play as a pink rabbit armed with a toothpick and a voodoo-doll, soloing arah 4. But wether you survive depends on your skill alone.

-
Just choose your difficulty level wisely and keep in mind on what scale the others play. So you won’t have a reason to complain. (this is my opinion)

Toasa.1236:

New Players should be NOT able to kill good Players just because of the build.

If you’re getting smoked by “new players” no matter what their build is, in PvP/WvW, then you aint a “good player”.

What makes you think that just because the CHAR is new, that the person playing it is new to the game?

No items, Fox only, Final Destination..

/sarcasm?

OriOri.8724:

A few changes I would like to see that would not only make the game better, but also make balancing easier:

• Change traps and marks so that the CD only starts after the mark/trap is triggered or they time out (oh yea, this would also involve putting a reasonable time out on traps/marks in all game modes). These skills should be balanced around this.

• Remove passive procs. Ideally all passive procs would be removed from the game, however realistically I want to see ~50-75% of the passive procs removed. I honestly believe that with the direction ANet went with HoT that simply removing all passive procs would now be a bad move, so I want to move towards severely limiting the amount of passive procs in this game. At the very least all passive procs that deal damage or activate invuln skills need to be removed. Stuff like Hunter’s Determination, Versed in Stone, Pulsating Pestilence, Defy Pain etc…

• Skills should have 1 or 2 things that they do, no more. SoTM is still a prime example of exactly what NOT to do with a skill ANet. Damage, CC, and evade built into a single skill, and you don’t even have to trait for any of it.

• Auto attack chains should not be applying conditions or boons. Its too easy, contributes to boon/condi spam like crazy, and makes it absurdly easy to apply cover condis throughout the entire fight. I could maybe, maybe, be convinced that its ok for each class to have 1 auto chain that applies a boon/condi on the third hit only, but that’s it. The only exceptions to this would be auto attacks whose sole purpose is to apply condis and do negligible damage on their own (eg mesmer staff auto)

• Resistance should be nerfed. It should be nerfed to 50% or 33% reduction in condi damage, and have stacks. Each stack allows you to ignore 1 soft CC condi until the stack runs out. So 1 stack of resistance would no longer make you completely immune to conditions. Conditions should then be rebalanced entirely around the new Resistance boon. Fundamentally though they will never be balanced as long as there is a single boon that allows you to ignore all conditions in the game at once. They need to be balanced around a reasonable resistance boon that is the proper equivalent of protection.

Lol, wow, we follow what you ask and watch half the classes disappear from PvP, Nerf traps like that and guard will all but vanish like warrior did for a time. The only other “good” guard build that is not trap heavy is burn guard, but then that is only good for so far in league play. As conditions are easy to remove. But then from what I can tell, people seem to class everyone who’s not playing there class, or playing a build they can’t handle are “noobs” and that build needs to go, because the “noobs” keep killing them in group and 1vs1 fights.

by ‘noob build’, do you mean ‘good easy builds that are stronger than weak hard builds’?

First of all, you’re assume a new player cannot be a good player.

Secondly, you’re assuming the player’s build is all that matters, rather than strategy and situational awareness.

my small list of things that can die a fiery death,

shield of courage
defy pain
last stand
self-regulating defenses
signet of stone
Elemental Bastion
master of manipulation

Every single one of those pretty much has me /sit while I wait out their durations. But that’s just from my perspective.

So you make an offensive post, and infract the people who feel offended, gotcha.
I will then rewrite my post so it contains only fact statute so you can’t infract it again:

Your claim is > (ps)Berserker is a low risk high reward
Reality is > (ps)Berserker is a high risk medium reward

Your claim is > Berserker is a noob build
Reality is > Berserker takes a LOT of experience to play and not die on high end content

I will concede that a large chunk of the playstyle is easy to learn. Maybe it has the nerfiest learning curve of all builds. but the top percentage damage actually is one of the hardest, requiring a lot of experience and a different playstyle from other classes

you dont really know what i mean.

I only think there are builds that are making ppls crying.

Imagine a condi thief Trapper trapped you (Ranger, no astral force collected) > knockdown, 2 needle traps + steal . Youre instantly dead.

Same with dragonhunters. you ever fought with a power mesmer against a dragonhunter? i think not.

I mean , why should you main a class and exactly learn how to Play it, if there are several other classes where you dont have to learn so much, and its way better?

Toasa.1236:

I mean , why should you main a class and exactly learn how to Play it, if there are several other classes where you dont have to learn so much, and its way better?

Probably because skilled players think that if you exactly learn how to play your main, you are going to be better than others, regardless of the build they use. For example, mesmers should stay far away from dragonhunters to avoid the traps, save an escape, and shatter clones to prematurely trigger traps.

There are always going to be some builds with a lower skill floor than others; that doesn’t make them overpowered. The ‘meta’ is not just about choosing a popular build (easy or not); it’s about being prepared to deal with people who are running those popular builds.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Toasa.1236:

I mean , why should you main a class and exactly learn how to Play it, if there are several other classes where you dont have to learn so much, and its way better?

Probably because skilled players think that if you exactly learn how to play your main, you are going to be better than others, regardless of the build they use. For example, mesmers should stay far away from dragonhunters to avoid the traps, save an escape, and shatter clones to prematurely trigger traps.

There are always going to be some builds with a lower skill floor than others; that doesn’t make them overpowered. The ‘meta’ is not just about choosing a popular build (easy or not); it’s about being prepared to deal with people who are running those popular builds.

In fact the original meaning of meta-gaming was exactly that.

Meta as a prefix means beyond, ‘outside of’ or self-referencing. In biology we talk about ‘meta-populations’ which are interconnected groups of the same species and many people will refer to ‘metadata’ which is data about your data.

Meta-gaming means ‘playing outside the game’ – instead of going into PvP with whatever build you feel like using and reacting to what happens you start ‘playing’ before the match starts, maybe even before you log in, by finding out what builds other people are likely to be using and working out a (hopefully effective) counter to them.

In some games it’s almost possible to tell who is going to win before the match starts if you can see the builds both sides are using. Although I think that’s mainly turn-based games with less situational skills, things like Magic the Gathering and Pokemon. Of course it’s not fool-proof, I’ve seen plenty of people playing a game like that pull a surprising trick no one else had thought of.

Right. I should also say that regardless of what the term means or how it’s used, the concept remains important: figure out what people are likely to use against you and learn to counter it. Every prof has strengths and weaknesses and we shouldn’t expect those to remain the same after a patch… or sometimes without one (when someone figures out a cheezy build).

Danikat.8537:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Toasa.1236:

I mean , why should you main a class and exactly learn how to Play it, if there are several other classes where you dont have to learn so much, and its way better?

Probably because skilled players think that if you exactly learn how to play your main, you are going to be better than others, regardless of the build they use. For example, mesmers should stay far away from dragonhunters to avoid the traps, save an escape, and shatter clones to prematurely trigger traps.

There are always going to be some builds with a lower skill floor than others; that doesn’t make them overpowered. The ‘meta’ is not just about choosing a popular build (easy or not); it’s about being prepared to deal with people who are running those popular builds.

In fact the original meaning of meta-gaming was exactly that.

Meta as a prefix means beyond, ‘outside of’ or self-referencing. In biology we talk about ‘meta-populations’ which are interconnected groups of the same species and many people will refer to ‘metadata’ which is data about your data.

Meta-gaming means ‘playing outside the game’ – instead of going into PvP with whatever build you feel like using and reacting to what happens you start ‘playing’ before the match starts, maybe even before you log in, by finding out what builds other people are likely to be using and working out a (hopefully effective) counter to them.

In some games it’s almost possible to tell who is going to win before the match starts if you can see the builds both sides are using. Although I think that’s mainly turn-based games with less situational skills, things like Magic the Gathering and Pokemon. Of course it’s not fool-proof, I’ve seen plenty of people playing a game like that pull a surprising trick no one else had thought of.

Smart people above here. I know I’m being redundant, but I’d like to reiterate anyway.

Metagaming indeed used to stand for “gaming outside the game.” As in, learning what your opponent might do before they do it, and having an effective strategy to deal with it.

Nowadays people just lazily apply meta to “any strategy that may kill me” without going the extra mile and doing the “how do I counter it” step.

There’s a reason some people just seem to be -really good- with certain classes. They’ve learned and fought so many cheesy builds that they’ve found ways to deal with the cheese, while the players -using- the cheesy builds can’t think past what happens if it doesnt work.

If you have a strategy to deal with the popular things, you automatically have a leg-up on the general skill floor of the entire playerbase that uses the ‘meta’ builds.

Toasa.1236:

you dont really know what i mean.

I only think there are builds that are making ppls crying.

Imagine a condi thief Trapper trapped you (Ranger, no astral force collected) > knockdown, 2 needle traps + steal . Youre instantly dead.

Same with dragonhunters. you ever fought with a power mesmer against a dragonhunter? i think not.

I mean , why should you main a class and exactly learn how to Play it, if there are several other classes where you dont have to learn so much, and its way better?

I am a noob. Really. Even though I’ve played GW1 beta, I only joined WG2 when HoT was released. I main a thief, and I spend 95% of my (IG) time on that character. I’m bad with other professions. Really bad – as in, again, ’I’m a noob".

Yet, I have never lost to a perma-stealth thief trapper. Not only that, but I just don’t understand how someone could possibly get killed by a thief trapper. Unless of course he has no condi removal, and has yet to do the dodging tutorial. Or to learn how squishy thieves are. Or to discover AoE hit stealthed thieves as well.

Seriously, even the noob me understands he canbeat this cookie-cutter build because he knows the class mechanics. The noob me also understands the best way to learn how to beat a certain build or profession is to start playing it, to discover its weaknesses.

Don’t expect to be able to beat something you don’t really understand yourself. Sometimes it works. Sometimes not. But that’s not a reason to complain.

Toasa.1236:

I mean , why should you main a class and exactly learn how to Play it, if there are several other classes where you dont have to learn so much, and its way better?

Because by doing this, you put yourself one step above the Metagame.

The metagame should ideally deal with “how to counter popular builds.”
If your build is unpopular (because its hard to use) but effective (you’ve mastered it), you have an advantage over everyone you havent played that is prepared to fight the meta.

PVP is layers upon layers of play and counterplay. you want to be on the topmost layer, and the above is a way to do that.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Lol, wow, we follow what you ask and watch half the classes disappear from PvP, Nerf traps like that and guard will all but vanish like warrior did for a time. The only other “good” guard build that is not trap heavy is burn guard, but then that is only good for so far in league play. As conditions are easy to remove. But then from what I can tell, people seem to class everyone who’s not playing there class, or playing a build they can’t handle are “noobs” and that build needs to go, because the “noobs” keep killing them in group and 1vs1 fights.

So spammable skills, insane condi/boon spam, a single boon that allows you to ignore condi builds in their entirety, and passive procs that make you invuln are perfectly balanced? Not really sure what to say to you man.

You also seem to have completely ignored the part where I said that traps and condis should be rebalanced around these bases. In all likelihood traps would probably actually be buffed if they were changed so the CD started when they were triggered instead of when you placed them. And for that matter, please explain to me why it was soooo OP for mesmer mantras to start their recharge as soon as you finished preparing them as opposed to not starting until after the resulting charges are actually used if its ok for traps to start recharging the moment they are used instead of waiting to be triggered? They need to be changed for the sake of consistency, and then rebalanced around that.

Same thing with condis and resistance. Resistance needs to be changed as its entirely too powerful to be a simple boon, and then condis should be re-balanced around that. Balancing around inconsistency and broken mechanics only makes balancing much harder for ANet.

lol, lets setup noobs for failure with high skill builds, knowing their noobs and they’ll choose them as their default???? Seriously?

With the complaints that an average noob jcomes in with 1200, and tanks matches as it is, why on earth would you make it worse by giving them a build that they wouldn’t know how to play. That’s just mean.

One does not simply die to abuse builds. But it is too often for a mediocre tier player like me to combat with 3 of those. Then it becomes boring as hell. Smashing buttons and facerolling. Sometimes even I think if playing cheesy builds would be better or not, but I cannot force myself to do it. You can, however, brutally counter many of those builds (except berserkers. I cannot counter them. They scare me with all those yelling and swinging a giant sword).

But OP is right. Skill floor was never lower than this. Not even in celestial meta.

OriOri.8724:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Lol, wow, we follow what you ask and watch half the classes disappear from PvP, Nerf traps like that and guard will all but vanish like warrior did for a time. The only other “good” guard build that is not trap heavy is burn guard, but then that is only good for so far in league play. As conditions are easy to remove. But then from what I can tell, people seem to class everyone who’s not playing there class, or playing a build they can’t handle are “noobs” and that build needs to go, because the “noobs” keep killing them in group and 1vs1 fights.

So spammable skills, insane condi/boon spam, a single boon that allows you to ignore condi builds in their entirety, and passive procs that make you invuln are perfectly balanced? Not really sure what to say to you man.

You also seem to have completely ignored the part where I said that traps and condis should be rebalanced around these bases. In all likelihood traps would probably actually be buffed if they were changed so the CD started when they were triggered instead of when you placed them. And for that matter, please explain to me why it was soooo OP for mesmer mantras to start their recharge as soon as you finished preparing them as opposed to not starting until after the resulting charges are actually used if its ok for traps to start recharging the moment they are used instead of waiting to be triggered? They need to be changed for the sake of consistency, and then rebalanced around that.

Same thing with condis and resistance. Resistance needs to be changed as its entirely too powerful to be a simple boon, and then condis should be re-balanced around that. Balancing around inconsistency and broken mechanics only makes balancing much harder for ANet.

Of you have problems with traps then maybe you need to figure out how to out play them. When I play the only time I go down to traps is if I’m surprised by more than 1. I find people who complain about trap guards’ need to just learn to play better.

As well as revs…just leave us alone man..we are wounded on the ground with everlasting salt poured on our wound already..

BrotherBelial.3094:

OriOri.8724:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Lol, wow, we follow what you ask and watch half the classes disappear from PvP, Nerf traps like that and guard will all but vanish like warrior did for a time. The only other “good” guard build that is not trap heavy is burn guard, but then that is only good for so far in league play. As conditions are easy to remove. But then from what I can tell, people seem to class everyone who’s not playing there class, or playing a build they can’t handle are “noobs” and that build needs to go, because the “noobs” keep killing them in group and 1vs1 fights.

So spammable skills, insane condi/boon spam, a single boon that allows you to ignore condi builds in their entirety, and passive procs that make you invuln are perfectly balanced? Not really sure what to say to you man.

You also seem to have completely ignored the part where I said that traps and condis should be rebalanced around these bases. In all likelihood traps would probably actually be buffed if they were changed so the CD started when they were triggered instead of when you placed them. And for that matter, please explain to me why it was soooo OP for mesmer mantras to start their recharge as soon as you finished preparing them as opposed to not starting until after the resulting charges are actually used if its ok for traps to start recharging the moment they are used instead of waiting to be triggered? They need to be changed for the sake of consistency, and then rebalanced around that.

Same thing with condis and resistance. Resistance needs to be changed as its entirely too powerful to be a simple boon, and then condis should be re-balanced around that. Balancing around inconsistency and broken mechanics only makes balancing much harder for ANet.

Of you have problems with traps then maybe you need to figure out how to out play them. When I play the only time I go down to traps is if I’m surprised by more than 1. I find people who complain about trap guards’ need to just learn to play better.

Welp clearly you aren’t interested in reading any comments here. I never said traps were OP.

That doesn’t change the fact that the way they work needs to be changed. Its just inconsistency that traps are semi spammable due to how their CDs work. Their CDs need to be shifted to work like all other skills (aka, starting when they are triggered), and then rebalanced around that. I didn’t ask for traps to be nerfed, but you probably missed that in your zeal to disagree with others.

Also nice attempt at deflecting. You can’t argue that the game could be much more balanced with the changes I listed.

I’m a Noob that mains a not Noob build and beat the Noob builds just as much as they beat me. Low skill threshold builds are good for player population.

DeanBB.4268:

How exactly would Anet “remove a build?” Anet doesn’t dictate what gets played, players choose.

Why isn’t this in the PvP section?

Anet very much so dictates the meta, when they remove amulets willy nilly and “slight nerf” a skill by 50% AND another skill by 33% in the same build. That absolutely dictates what gets played.

Want to kill noob builds? Remove all passive traits to start because that’s what carries most people then increase cd’s and reduce base healing and damage for EVERYTHING while increasing it’s scaling so people are forced to invest rather than get a perfect build that does everything.

Troll thread. 15kittens

Toasa.1236:

Remove or nerf those noob builds.

Im talking about no risk-high reward builds like condi mesmer, trap thief, The damage of Berserkers and dragonhunters aswell rev’s.

If you dont want to nerf the dmg, nerf survivability.

Lets create builds like power shatter mesmers or rifle engis or s/f eles.

lets make high risk high reward or low risk low reward builds….

New Players should be NOT able to kill good Players just because of the build.

The is a issue but not in the way you think.

This is a a picture of me dueling someone in a ranked match after a throw from some team mates.

Im running strength-discpline-beserker. I am not getting the 2nd endure the pain or heals or stability or cleansing ire from the defense trait line.

The problem in the game is it takes forever to kill a player in good team fights and it takes for ever to kill anyone in 1 vs 1 and 2 vs 2 when people know how to target and play.

The other problem is Anet match making, we should all pretty use to the Anet spam that is HOT.

DeanBB.4268:

How exactly would Anet “remove a build?” Anet doesn’t dictate what gets played, players choose.

Why isn’t this in the PvP section?

Actually ANET did completely remove the clone death build. A prominent staffer playing thief on the old skyhammer was killed by a clone death Mesmer.

He complained about it on the stream and said it would be removed and it was. Those traits and that entire strategy no longer exist.

This is a major reason that Phantasm builds are no longer used as well

OriOri.8724:

BrotherBelial.3094:

OriOri.8724:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Lol, wow, we follow what you ask and watch half the classes disappear from PvP, Nerf traps like that and guard will all but vanish like warrior did for a time. The only other “good” guard build that is not trap heavy is burn guard, but then that is only good for so far in league play. As conditions are easy to remove. But then from what I can tell, people seem to class everyone who’s not playing there class, or playing a build they can’t handle are “noobs” and that build needs to go, because the “noobs” keep killing them in group and 1vs1 fights.

So spammable skills, insane condi/boon spam, a single boon that allows you to ignore condi builds in their entirety, and passive procs that make you invuln are perfectly balanced? Not really sure what to say to you man.

You also seem to have completely ignored the part where I said that traps and condis should be rebalanced around these bases. In all likelihood traps would probably actually be buffed if they were changed so the CD started when they were triggered instead of when you placed them. And for that matter, please explain to me why it was soooo OP for mesmer mantras to start their recharge as soon as you finished preparing them as opposed to not starting until after the resulting charges are actually used if its ok for traps to start recharging the moment they are used instead of waiting to be triggered? They need to be changed for the sake of consistency, and then rebalanced around that.

Same thing with condis and resistance. Resistance needs to be changed as its entirely too powerful to be a simple boon, and then condis should be re-balanced around that. Balancing around inconsistency and broken mechanics only makes balancing much harder for ANet.

Of you have problems with traps then maybe you need to figure out how to out play them. When I play the only time I go down to traps is if I’m surprised by more than 1. I find people who complain about trap guards’ need to just learn to play better.

Welp clearly you aren’t interested in reading any comments here. I never said traps were OP.

That doesn’t change the fact that the way they work needs to be changed. Its just inconsistency that traps are semi spammable due to how their CDs work. Their CDs need to be shifted to work like all other skills (aka, starting when they are triggered), and then rebalanced around that. I didn’t ask for traps to be nerfed, but you probably missed that in your zeal to disagree with others.

Also nice attempt at deflecting. You can’t argue that the game could be much more balanced with the changes I listed.

So traps are not op, but you can spam them? So of there not op then what’s the problem? I think you need to decide what it is you are trying to say.

As for your changes, I don’t see how they would be more balanced. These changes are to greatly alter the way a class is currently played. Not to make the game more balanced. The list reads like a list of things you personally can’t figure out how to overcome, so you want ANet to change the game to be more to your liking.

Every class has skills, weapon skills, or both that can take care of traps. One a DH has used there traps, they dps is reduced.

But then if people are going Ro blindly copy builds from meta battle or what ever, then not tweak them from match to match, that’s there problem for not adapting to the opposing teams composition.