Guild Wars 2

These “crybaby” shouts ruin immersion and are bad game design. Adding to injury is the fact that they are very useful while doing open world PvE since they are the only ones that give Swiftness and therefore save you lots of time. So I end up being a full emo when doing open world PvE.

And judging by the skill description and what they actually do the “Retreat” looks more like “Onward To Victory” and “Save Yourselves” looks more like “We Are Unstoppable!” or something along those lines.

Guardians should be all about virtues, well cowardice and selfishness don’t really fit in with the guardian’s lore.

“Save Yourselves” isn’t selfishness its actually the exact opposite. You are sacrificing yourself to pull off your comrades conditions and telling them to back off while you hold the foe at bay.

I do agree with retreat though, i would like it to be a more heroic call like “Be Swift!”

Buro.3576:

Guardians should be all about virtues, well cowardice and selfishness don’t really fit in with the guardian’s lore.

In my opinion, I 100% believe they are both accurate skill names and shouts AND that they represent the guardian in full.

It’s not cowardly to retreat. It’s actually a tactically sound decision at times. Assuming this isn’t a last stand and your troop/army is overwhelmed, it’s a strategic decision to retreat, regroup, and plan for the next battle, saving as many of your troops as possible. The guardian is a master tactician, remember that, retreat is a tactical and sometimes necessary choice to make. Live to fight another day type of stuff. It actually improves the image of the guardian being a tactician, because not every battle can be won, sometimes all you can do is delay and when your mission is successful, retreat will be needed for whoever survives. Also look what the skill provides. Aegis and swiftness. That’s a means of providing safety to your allies, preventing them from getting hit while they run away faster.

As for “Save yourselves”, it’s actually the least selfish thing you can do. One half of the skill is giving yourself all these buffs, but it’s the other half that you’re missing. The other half of the skill is drawing in conditions from your allies. That’s not selfish at ALL. And the way I see it, THIS is a last stand ability. This is the ability that a guardian would pop up, removing conditions from allies, telling them to flee, buffing the guardian up so that they can fight what’s harming their allies and prevent them from dying. This ability is probably the most noble ability in the guardian’s kitten nal. This isn’t selflessness, this is self-sacrificial. Yes you get all the buffs, but you’re doing it so that you can both bear the burden of what ails your allies AND so that you can stand up to what your group was facing and failing to defeat, allowing them to live.

Just because you use both abilities to get places faster doesn’t mean they aren’t relevant skills for the guardian, nor does the existence of those skills make a guardian a coward or selfish.

Those skill names have existed since GW1 so I don’t see them being changed.

I see “Save Yourselves” kind of like the wounded guy that stays behind clutching a grenade to slow down pursuit and sacrifice himself for the team. The noble sacrifice move.

Yeah, if you think they’re cowardly, you don’t get what the guardian is supposed to be about.

And I refuse to even consider this an immersion-breaking issue while FOR GREAT JUSTICE is a thing.

I would like “Retreat!” to be renamed to “Hurry!” or “Go Go Go!” or even “You go, Girl!” I’d have no problem with “Save Yourselves!” becoming “I’ll Protect You!” or “Look Out!” I agree that the original names aren’t apt.

However, if you don’t like the names, just ask for the names to be changed. Please don’t try to justify the request as if it’s anything more than a strong preference.

If you are immersed in the game’s world, then it should be clear that the names are reasonable for the effects — it just happens that those shouts are also useful in other situations besides the obvious one based on the name.

Neither is it “bad game design” or “added injury.” It’s just awkward, where it could be awesome (or neutral).

I don’t mind Save Yourselves.

I can’t remember the last time Retreat! was used to actually “retreat,” though.
If we name it for what it’s actually used for, it’d be “Swiftness that doesn’t require a lootstick!” but that’s a long thing to shout.

I don’t see them changing “Retreat!” given that it works similarly to its namesake shout in GW1 (granted, in GW1 it required a dead body). I suppose they could potentially swap it to “Make Haste!” instead, since that’s what it typically gets used for. Granted, thats not how GW1’s “Make Haste!” worked, but, as I am regularly reminded, this isn’t GW1.

Buro.3576:

These “crybaby” shouts ruin immersion and are bad game design. Adding to injury is the fact that they are very useful while doing open world PvE since they are the only ones that give Swiftness and therefore save you lots of time. So I end up being a full emo when doing open world PvE.

And judging by the skill description and what they actually do the “Retreat” looks more like “Onward To Victory” and “Save Yourselves” looks more like “We Are Unstoppable!” or something along those lines.

Guardians should be all about virtues, well cowardice and selfishness don’t really fit in with the guardian’s lore.

The shouts does in no way depict cowardice or selfishness. Quite the contrary actually.

Save yourselves is ok shout, but retreat should be renamed to “Charge” or “Make haste” or something better.

Ragnarox.9601:

Save yourselves is ok shout, but retreat should be renamed to “Charge” or “Make haste” or something better.

Thing is,it can also be used in a retreat scenario. So either thing doesn’t really make sense depending on how one view/use it.

For it to completely make sense it has to be something that can unify both those concepts into one. So that however you look at it…it works and won’t be immersion breaking.

But tbh if this is what’s immersion breaking for the OP then there’s plenty of other stuff for him to change in the game. I do however understand him.

You know what they should rename instead?

Wondrouswall.7169:

You know what they should rename instead?

Show Spoiler

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“Strength of the Pack!” back to “Rampage as One!”

Agreed.

Retreat and Save Yourselves are being shouted at the enemy because the player and allies are about to charge in with buffs on.

While I don’t think the phrases themselves express “cowardice”, I really believe they don’t reflect at all what those skills are used for. People rarely use them to flee their enemies, they use them mostly to advance in mass towards some objective.

It’s not a retreat if you’re just advancing to the rear.

Retreat could be “Oh Crap!” and Save Yourselves could be “Just Kidding!”

Ardid.7203:

While I don’t think the phrases themselves express “cowardice”, I really believe they don’t reflect at all what those skills are used for. People rarely use them to flee their enemies, they use them mostly to advance in mass towards some objective.

I actually do use it to retreat. Guardians don’t have any other movement boosts and giving it to allies helps against angry pursuing mobs or players

“Retreat!” could be simply “Run!” Forwards, backwards, it don’t matter.

“Save Yourselves!” is fine.

Retreat could simply be “Charge!”, since you’re usually using it to charge forward and get to places.

Nah, leave as is. "Retreat!" is simply fooling the opposition (or informing them what they should be doing, as Ashen says up thread). Ditto "Save Yourselves!" Guardians aren’t being literal by any means with these shouts.

Well, that’s how I square that circle.

What do you want instead? Overexited Charr female warrior voices?

Gaining adrenaline!”
“Almost ready!”
“On My Mark!”
“Here I come!”
“Shake It Off!”
“For Great Justice!”

When you put them in order… it almost makes sense.

I agree, though, it’s still that “retreating” shouts are used mostly for advances or progress..

Well yes, but gameplay-wise Retreat makes sense as a defensive shout, seeing the buffs it gives.

Ofc it can also be used for offense, but in that case you’re just shouting at the enemy that they better retreat, because incoming!

Don’t really mind them myself, but I guess you could replace “Retreat!” with “Move Out!” which makes sense no matter which way you’re running.

Don’t want to see “Save Yourself!” changed, unless they change it to my favorite verbal typo of the skill: “Shave Yourself!” and then have the guardian shave 4 nearby allies, and make his own beard larger.

idk maybe rename “retreat” to “SKIP” or “OMG TEEF WHY NO STEALTH”? i mean, no one uses it to run away but rather to skip stuff

Retreat.

No sir, I just advance in opposition.

joneirikb.7506:

Don’t really mind them myself, but I guess you could replace “Retreat!” with “Move Out!” which makes sense no matter which way you’re running.

This is a good solution for Retreat.

Save Yourselves! is a great skill in its name, especially given how it works. It really shouldn’t be changed.

“Save Yourselves!” definitely should be renamed. Something along the lines of “Leeeeeeeeeroy!” would be fitting, since it’s nothing more than a suicide button anyway.

You’re playing the wrong race. At least Norn female shout retreat with calm authority. That said I wouldn’t mind it beign changed to “Take Cover!” as the aegis blocks an attack.

Zorby.8236:

You’re playing the wrong race. At least Norn female shout retreat with calm authority. That said I wouldn’t mind it beign changed to “Take Cover!” as the aegis blocks an attack.

Yeah, Norns have good voice lines.

The human one though

sounds like a harpy screeching.

Zorby.8236:

You’re playing the wrong race. At least Norn female shout retreat with calm authority. That said I wouldn’t mind it beign changed to “Take Cover!” as the aegis blocks an attack.

but why? if aegis gives you the window to block an aoe or attack then doesnt that counters the “take cover” it makes more sense to name it something like “stand strong” or something like that.