Guild Wars 2

So, today i was doing my lvl 49 fotm daily and suddenly i saw a group of 3 (later 4) friends who all wanted was to kick players at end of fractal. I was feeling so impotent while i saw this nice person getting voted for NO REASON WHAT SO EVER. I don’t give a $!& why you don’t do anything, but we BOTH REPORTED this 3 persons and for what?. So i decided to do the right thing, as it follows the screen:

Later on, they decided to say to me the following “don’t go to a fractal and tell people what to do”.. they felt so arrogant being 3 friends, then 4 cause they voted the other pug. I had to play like if i was their “bitc……………………..” to avoid being kicked.
I want to see this 4 players reported and banned. This behavior cannot be tolerated in this game. They did not vote me, (don’t know why) i guess cause i shutted up and played nicely. But they still tried to vote me aswell, which you see in the 2cond picture.

I’m not shy, i added this 4 lame human persons to friendlist to remember correctly users and nickname, which are the following:

User:
User:
User:
User:

The last person named “…….” was who reeplaced the pug his 3 friends kicked. Which is the person who suddenly “tried to VOTE ME” aswell. (which thank god did not happen).

Anet: im feeling impotent, and i took a last picture so u see they are all friends. I added them as friends, and after the fractal, they are all in Divinitys Reach “hanging out” and enjoying they kicked a pug and got his friend “…….” in the party for free fractal in the effort on someone else.

I want all the pugs who got kicked on fractals cause of this to use this topic so we change this behavior. How? i do not know.

I feel so impotent seeing this person kicked and also seeing the vote on me. How did i avoid the kick? i had to write this" " as soon as they voted me. Then i shut up for the entire fotm afraid of being kicked and played my best.

Please fix this. And i would appreciate u read the reports and work on this 4 persons banned (not for life) but as a punishmend for “in fraganti”.

Tyvm.

Picture here, couldnt upload them in the same post.

This is naming and shaming, and it’s against forum rules.

I’m pretty sure naming people isn’t allowed on the forums for stuff like this.

trouble.3562:

Pictures here, couldnt upload on same post.

sorry.

tyvm.

Send these to ANet, not to the forums. Lets ANet sort it out.

Thanks for the person who told me about forum rules.

Names have been deleted from post.

Picture speaks for itself.

Ty.

Their names are still in the screenshots. You need to either edit out their names or remove the screenshots. Send the screenshots to support with a ticket describing what happened.

Will do.

Didn’t know this counts.

Spring Tournament 2014 screenshots a little bit out of date or am I missing something?

In the pictures you posted it looked like they were kicking a guy for being away. As he told them I’m here. Just OOC.

After they started a kick he told them F-you.

In one of the other pictures the party are saying don’t join a party and tell us what to do. Before starting a kick.

If you go away in a fractal or start trying to boss a group you just joined around or you swear at people you will end up being kicked. There is also no call for swearing.

Saying these people should be banned for kicking him when they have a guy in their group swearing at them & being away is stupid. They have every right to kick people for that.

Its ok, ticket has been sent with enough pics.

Topic closed.

I am sorry to continue this but your post actually has a good idea to curb kick abuse.

When you want to kick someone you have a select few reasons to choose from. The vote-to-kick will show up displaying that reason. When a player gets kicked that reason then shows up in their mailbox. If the reason given was the wrong one, that player may report for abuse.

Fun. Fun. Fun.

CureForLiving.5360:

This is naming and shaming, and it’s against forum rules.

Which is a real shame (pun intended) b/c public shaming actually does go a long way in correcting behavior… for example back in the day before you could lfg que for raids in wow, if a guy ninja looted an item on a small server just one person telling mapchat could help get him blacklisted by almost everybody and most pugs who cared enough to block. This public shaming thus was a great form of punishment and a good deterrent to punishment.

A real life example in ancient times the jewish people were allowed to stone a child to death if he was often rude and disrespectful to his parents. Now I’m not arguing for or against capital punishment here especially for what our culture would consider a minor offense but I guaranty you that it got results lol. All it would take is for little johny to be stoned and little billy and all his friends would be perfect angels… just saying…

chaos.3062:

CureForLiving.5360:

This is naming and shaming, and it’s against forum rules.

Which is a real shame (pun intended) b/c public shaming actually does go a long way in correcting behavior… for example back in the day before you could lfg que for raids in wow, if a guy ninja looted an item on a small server just one person telling mapchat could help get him blacklisted by almost everybody and most pugs who cared enough to block. This public shaming thus was a great form of punishment and a good deterrent to punishment.

A real life example in ancient times the jewish people were allowed to stone a child to death if he was often rude and disrespectful to his parents. Now I’m not arguing for or against capital punishment here especially for what our culture would consider a minor offense but I guaranty you that it got results lol. All it would take is for little johny to be stoned and little billy and all his friends would be perfect angels… just saying…

You’re allowed to name and shame in-game, assuming you’re being honest about what’s going on. You just can’t do so here on the forums.

For the record I don’t think creating an environment of fear is the best way to get results.

chaos.3062:

CureForLiving.5360:

This is naming and shaming, and it’s against forum rules.

Which is a real shame (pun intended) b/c public shaming actually does go a long way in correcting behavior… for example back in the day before you could lfg que for raids in wow, if a guy ninja looted an item on a small server just one person telling mapchat could help get him blacklisted by almost everybody and most pugs who cared enough to block. This public shaming thus was a great form of punishment and a good deterrent to punishment.

A real life example in ancient times the jewish people were allowed to stone a child to death if he was often rude and disrespectful to his parents. Now I’m not arguing for or against capital punishment here especially for what our culture would consider a minor offense but I guaranty you that it got results lol. All it would take is for little johny to be stoned and little billy and all his friends would be perfect angels… just saying…

You do realize that people will lie don’t you? Or that they can be mistaken? Or that they only have part of the story and the rest of the story changes the situation?

Naming and shaming on the forum where people can lie, be mistaken or be misinformed only causes a toxic forum. Unless you are willing to be the one named and shamed on the forum by someone with a grudge against you, then I don’t think you should advocate it.

Report what happens in game and let ANet sort it out from their records.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

chaos.3062:

CureForLiving.5360:

This is naming and shaming, and it’s against forum rules.

Which is a real shame (pun intended) b/c public shaming actually does go a long way in correcting behavior… for example back in the day before you could lfg que for raids in wow, if a guy ninja looted an item on a small server just one person telling mapchat could help get him blacklisted by almost everybody and most pugs who cared enough to block. This public shaming thus was a great form of punishment and a good deterrent to punishment.

A real life example in ancient times the jewish people were allowed to stone a child to death if he was often rude and disrespectful to his parents. Now I’m not arguing for or against capital punishment here especially for what our culture would consider a minor offense but I guaranty you that it got results lol. All it would take is for little johny to be stoned and little billy and all his friends would be perfect angels… just saying…

You do realize that people will lie don’t you? Or that they can be mistaken? Or that they only have part of the story and the rest of the story changes the situation?

Naming and shaming on the forum where people can lie, be mistaken or be misinformed only causes a toxic forum. Unless you are willing to be the one named and shamed on the forum by someone with a grudge against you, then I don’t think you should advocate it.

Report what happens in game and let ANet sort it out from their records.

(quote) “report what happens and let anet sort it out”
-That logic while works is less of a deterrent. For instance if anet bans people for exploiting or whatever that’s great but most of us will never know about it, thus we maybe thinking over here that they don’t do anything about the situation overall. but if there was a long list of people that got banned for it recently i 100% guaranty you most people would think twice before attempting it.

oh and just in case anyone says its not anet’s policy to public shame go play guild wars 1 Had the most epic example of public shamining in any game i’ve ever played or seen.

edit: responding to your edit. About lies. Sure 1 person could lie, but if a whole group is stating the same thing its more likely to be true. If there’s proof of repeat behavior well then there you go. Screenshots and pics go a long way, yeah people can photoshop but it takes some skill and a lot of time. Oh and I would be “willing to be the one named and shamed” as you put it because quite frankly I wouldn’t be involved in any inappropriate behavior so I would have nothing to worry about So I can advocate it all I want^^ b/c I would be held to the same standard

chaos.3062:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

chaos.3062:

CureForLiving.5360:

This is naming and shaming, and it’s against forum rules.

Which is a real shame (pun intended) b/c public shaming actually does go a long way in correcting behavior… for example back in the day before you could lfg que for raids in wow, if a guy ninja looted an item on a small server just one person telling mapchat could help get him blacklisted by almost everybody and most pugs who cared enough to block. This public shaming thus was a great form of punishment and a good deterrent to punishment.

A real life example in ancient times the jewish people were allowed to stone a child to death if he was often rude and disrespectful to his parents. Now I’m not arguing for or against capital punishment here especially for what our culture would consider a minor offense but I guaranty you that it got results lol. All it would take is for little johny to be stoned and little billy and all his friends would be perfect angels… just saying…

You do realize that people will lie don’t you? Or that they can be mistaken? Or that they only have part of the story and the rest of the story changes the situation?

Naming and shaming on the forum where people can lie, be mistaken or be misinformed only causes a toxic forum. Unless you are willing to be the one named and shamed on the forum by someone with a grudge against you, then I don’t think you should advocate it.

Report what happens in game and let ANet sort it out from their records.

That logic while works is less of a deterrent. For instance if anet bans people for exploiting or whatever that’s great but most of us will never know about it, thus we maybe thinking over here that they don’t do anything about the situtation overall. but if there was a long list of people that got banned for it recently i 100% guaranty you most people would think twice before attempting it.

oh and just in case anyone says its not anet’s policy to public shame go play guild wars 1 Had the most epic example of public shamining in any game i’ve ever played or seen.

It’s not against Anet policy to public shamming (when there’s a reason for it) as long as they’re the ones doing it. There’s the banning animation in GW1 and the reddit thread where Gaile Gray basically told people why they were really suspended as examples, and I’ve even seen quite a few times where someone has been publicly told what did they do wrong here on the forums.

The no naming and shaming rule in forums (and in any other official game forums I can think of) is for another reason. You could easily ruin someone’s in-game reputation by telling everyone he did something bad, kicking people off dungeon/fractal runs or scamming someone, for example, and even screenshots could be easily edited in photoshop or any other graphic software, and even question Anet’s reputation itself if you were to keep providing “proof” of wrongdoing. That’s what the rule is trying to prevent.

It’s different when Anet does it because they have access to the game logs, so they actually do have proof of what really happened.

chaos.3062:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

chaos.3062:

CureForLiving.5360:

This is naming and shaming, and it’s against forum rules.

Which is a real shame (pun intended) b/c public shaming actually does go a long way in correcting behavior… for example back in the day before you could lfg que for raids in wow, if a guy ninja looted an item on a small server just one person telling mapchat could help get him blacklisted by almost everybody and most pugs who cared enough to block. This public shaming thus was a great form of punishment and a good deterrent to punishment.

A real life example in ancient times the jewish people were allowed to stone a child to death if he was often rude and disrespectful to his parents. Now I’m not arguing for or against capital punishment here especially for what our culture would consider a minor offense but I guaranty you that it got results lol. All it would take is for little johny to be stoned and little billy and all his friends would be perfect angels… just saying…

You do realize that people will lie don’t you? Or that they can be mistaken? Or that they only have part of the story and the rest of the story changes the situation?

Naming and shaming on the forum where people can lie, be mistaken or be misinformed only causes a toxic forum. Unless you are willing to be the one named and shamed on the forum by someone with a grudge against you, then I don’t think you should advocate it.

Report what happens in game and let ANet sort it out from their records.

(quote) “report what happens and let anet sort it out”
-That logic while works is less of a deterrent. For instance if anet bans people for exploiting or whatever that’s great but most of us will never know about it, thus we maybe thinking over here that they don’t do anything about the situation overall. but if there was a long list of people that got banned for it recently i 100% guaranty you most people would think twice before attempting it.

oh and just in case anyone says its not anet’s policy to public shame go play guild wars 1 Had the most epic example of public shamining in any game i’ve ever played or seen.

edit: responding to your edit. About lies. Sure 1 person could lie, but if a whole group is stating the same thing its more likely to be true. If there’s proof of repeat behavior well then there you go. Screenshots and pics go a long way, yeah people can photoshop but it takes some skill and a lot of time. Oh and I would be “willing to be the one named and shamed” as you put it because quite frankly I wouldn’t be involved in any inappropriate behavior so I would have nothing to worry about So I can advocate it all I want^^ b/c I would be held to the same standard

So if the friends in OP’s post got together and posted lies on the forum about the OP or person they kicked, it would be true? What if they were in a guild of several hundred and told them lies and got large numbers of their guildies to post on the forum in support of them and against OP or that person, would that make it even more true?

People do lie and those who are in the wrong are more likely to lie and make a preemptive strike to discredit the ones they wronged and who might report them.

You also forget that people will retaliate. If it was allowed to name and shame on the forum then if OP did so then those people who now are angry and afraid they will be punished will take the time to post counter accusations and photoshop screenshots to back themselves up.

@chaos…And if someone should compromise your account, and break the ToS, do you still advocate having your name posted on the forums associated with, oh let’s say, scamming other players? Selling gold? How about racist chat?

You might feel different about your Display and/or Character Names being publicly accused of wrong-doing when you can’t even access the forums to defend yourself.

Supporting what Inculpatus has said here and adding a few points of my own.

I’ve also seen cases of naming and shaming where people have been mistaken, or even with a screen-shot/video there were completely reasonable explanations to what the infractor was doing.

In-game I’ve seen people call out in map-chat for everybody report xxxx.1234 because they’re completing an event which is stopping a zerg from farming. That’s naming and shaming, causes distress and upset for no real reason. In this case, a whole group of people may be saying that xxxx.1234 is in the wrong, but that does not mean they are correct.

The damage of naming and shaming can be fast and widespread, too. The forums in particular can broadcast to a large amount of people who could spam, abuse or even try to hack a person. Sure, these responses are against the rules themselves, but by advocating naming and shaming you’re advocating other people to break the rules.

Arena-net has control of offences and punishments. If naming-and-shaming was allowed, it would be perceived that A-net has little control and mob-justice is the way forward. Punishment might also be disproportionate for the offence if a handful of people take it upon themselves to serve out pay-back.

Also, I’m not actually sure if naming-and-shaming is even allowed in-game. It could fall under the category of abuse.

Crimson Clouds.4853:

Also, I’m not actually sure if naming-and-shaming is even allowed in-game. It could fall under the category of abuse.

I think it would depend on the extent of the naming and shaming, as well as the language used.

What we NEED is instance splitting and scaled rewards to avoid this kind of thing.

Reporting is only stitches on an open wound. We need to prevent the harm from happening at all.

1. Reward scaling. If you join late, you get less rewards. If your friends kick someone so you can join leech for the the last boss and leech the daily chest, you won’t get the daily chest, you’ll only get the rewards for the boss.
Want a daily chest? Do a daily run.
Some achievements won’t even count unless a minimum progress has been completed (For example, at least 25% for dailies, at least 50% for permanent achievements).

2. Instance splitting. With this, players kicked from a party within an instance get sent to a copy of the instance with the same progress done. This can only happen if reward scaling is also implemented, or people would split on purpose to sell runs. If the new instance created in the split is not full when someone else is kicked, any further kicked from the first party gets sent to the recently made copy, so each kick is not a new instance right away. Because of scaling, the kickers and the kicked keep full rewards, but players who join mid-way to either party won’t get full rewards, only enough rewards to make worthwhile the remaining time there. Still, it’ll be easier getting friends and guildies to than pugs join because of the reduced rewards, and so people will be more reluctant to kick frivolously.

Now, some things won’t be possible anymore because of this, like selling dungeon paths for the same price, but It’ll be insane to thinks that being able to keep selling paths for the same price and at the same speed as now takes precedence over a single players getting kicked and losing all progress without deserving it is pretty much insane and hasn’t grasped what GW’s spirit is about.

Dungeon sellers will have to simply adapt to work like rushers in GW1 to keep selling at the same price: Get people to join the full run, and do whole the run with them in the instance, and the may even learn something from you.

Your first solution would pretty much guarantee that if you lose a party member halfway through a run, you’d have a helluva time finding a replacement. Terible idea.

Instance splitting seems like it’d be impractical to implement, but pretty neat. That would only work if the reward remains as is (no scaling), because who’s going to waste time doing a dungeon they won’t get the daily chest from?

MithranArkanere.8957:

What we NEED is instance splitting and scaled rewards to avoid this kind of thing.

Reporting is only stitches on an open wound. We need to prevent the harm from happening at all.

1. Reward scaling. If you join late, you get less rewards. If your friends kick someone so you can join leech for the the last boss and leech the daily chest, you won’t get the daily chest, you’ll only get the rewards for the boss.
Want a daily chest? Do a daily run.
Some achievements won’t even count unless a minimum progress has been completed (For example, at least 25% for dailies, at least 50% for permanent achievements).

2. Instance splitting. With this, players kicked from a party within an instance get sent to a copy of the instance with the same progress done. This can only happen if reward scaling is also implemented, or people would split on purpose to sell runs. If the new instance created in the split is not full when someone else is kicked, any further kicked from the first party gets sent to the recently made copy, so each kick is not a new instance right away. Because of scaling, the kickers and the kicked keep full rewards, but players who join mid-way to either party won’t get full rewards, only enough rewards to make worthwhile the remaining time there. Still, it’ll be easier getting friends and guildies to than pugs join because of the reduced rewards, and so people will be more reluctant to kick frivolously.

Now, some things won’t be possible anymore because of this, like selling dungeon paths for the same price, but It’ll be insane to thinks that being able to keep selling paths for the same price and at the same speed as now takes precedence over a single players getting kicked and losing all progress without deserving it is pretty much insane and hasn’t grasped what GW’s spirit is about.

Dungeon sellers will have to simply adapt to work like rushers in GW1 to keep selling at the same price: Get people to join the full run, and do whole the run with them in the instance, and the may even learn something from you.

There’s a problem with this solution: which is that no one would then join a ongoing dungeon, and as such the kicked people would have to either finish it alone or start all over.

CureForLiving.5360:

This is naming and shaming, and it’s against forum rules.

Did you ever think about why is it against forum rules?

It is because ANET are not against such behavior. They need their “friendly” playerbase to buy gems. Nobody cares about pugs here. Nobody will ever be banned for such things. There is no such option to report people for kicking pugs at the end of the dungeon. It’s not against the rules at all.

chaos.3062:

public shaming actually does go a long way in correcting behavior

It also makes it easier for trolls to start arguments. And it doesn’t “correct” or change people’s behavior usually; it tends to make the accused fight back.

Plus, sometimes people make up stuff to punish someone else for some perceived or actual wrongdoing, slight, or affront.

In short, there’s a reason most modern societies don’t allow punishment without a trial. In this game, it’s more of a tribunal made up of Customer Support staff.

Better to send the details to ANet; let them sort it out.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

@chaos…And if someone should compromise your account, and break the ToS, do you still advocate having your name posted on the forums associated with, oh let’s say, scamming other players? Selling gold? How about racist chat?

You might feel different about your Display and/or Character Names being publicly accused of wrong-doing when you can’t even access the forums to defend yourself.

My points are still valid, even if you do try to do a red herring fallacy. That being said I specifically said nothing about the forums, its their forums, their rules, they can do what they want with it, I just said public shaming gets results and pointed at several examples from other mmos, history and gw1.

Now I will answer your hypothetical scenario just because I feel like it. First my account would not be compromised I have a unique email and unique password just for this game. No other site or email or anything else has access to the email or the password. I keep my pc clean etc. Now let’s just say somehow my account was compromised. Would I care if someone took screens and put them up, not really, b/c like you stated I know that that’s not me. My moral conscience is clean. My identity is safe since its just kittenername and not my actual name. I wouldn’t need to defend myself in these type of scenarios I’m guessing anet looks into it. If they find out my account was compromised then they know its not me and if it caused issues with guildies or friends when my account is restored that would be proof of my innocence.

Lucky for you to have such understanding Guildies and friends. Hopefully, no one who didn’t know you wouldn’t find you being a member of a Guild off-putting, and lucky you would never have to PUG, like some who do.

Also, can’t tell you how many threads I’ve read where the compromised poster said the same things about their security.

Regardless, it’s a great thing this game is made up of all kinds of players, and even greater that naming and shaming is against the rules. Even when the poster self-admits to their wrong-doing.

Good luck.

chaos.3062:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

chaos.3062:

CureForLiving.5360:

This is naming and shaming, and it’s against forum rules.

Which is a real shame (pun intended) b/c public shaming actually does go a long way in correcting behavior… for example back in the day before you could lfg que for raids in wow, if a guy ninja looted an item on a small server just one person telling mapchat could help get him blacklisted by almost everybody and most pugs who cared enough to block. This public shaming thus was a great form of punishment and a good deterrent to punishment.

A real life example in ancient times the jewish people were allowed to stone a child to death if he was often rude and disrespectful to his parents. Now I’m not arguing for or against capital punishment here especially for what our culture would consider a minor offense but I guaranty you that it got results lol. All it would take is for little johny to be stoned and little billy and all his friends would be perfect angels… just saying…

You do realize that people will lie don’t you? Or that they can be mistaken? Or that they only have part of the story and the rest of the story changes the situation?

Naming and shaming on the forum where people can lie, be mistaken or be misinformed only causes a toxic forum. Unless you are willing to be the one named and shamed on the forum by someone with a grudge against you, then I don’t think you should advocate it.

Report what happens in game and let ANet sort it out from their records.

(quote) “report what happens and let anet sort it out”
-That logic while works is less of a deterrent. For instance if anet bans people for exploiting or whatever that’s great but most of us will never know about it, thus we maybe thinking over here that they don’t do anything about the situation overall. but if there was a long list of people that got banned for it recently i 100% guaranty you most people would think twice before attempting it.

oh and just in case anyone says its not anet’s policy to public shame go play guild wars 1 Had the most epic example of public shamining in any game i’ve ever played or seen.

edit: responding to your edit. About lies. Sure 1 person could lie, but if a whole group is stating the same thing its more likely to be true. If there’s proof of repeat behavior well then there you go. Screenshots and pics go a long way, yeah people can photoshop but it takes some skill and a lot of time. Oh and I would be “willing to be the one named and shamed” as you put it because quite frankly I wouldn’t be involved in any inappropriate behavior so I would have nothing to worry about So I can advocate it all I want^^ b/c I would be held to the same standard

(Highlighted part)

This shows a touching and naive belief that just because you wouldn’t be involved in inappropriate behavior, you have nothing to worry about. In reality, there are people who will harass, grief, stalk, and malign anyone who attracts their attention or angers them. Kick one of them from a dungeon or have an exchange of words in chat and they can go after you. It’s not necessary to be rich or important or well known to get these people to single you out. The anonymity of the internet brings out this behavior in people who would otherwise be cautious. The ability to post on the forum and say what they want would be just what they would like best.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberbullying
Cyber-bullying could be limited to posting rumors or gossips about a person in the internet bringing about hatred in other’s minds; or it may go to the extent of personally identifying victims and publishing materials severely defaming and humiliating them.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalking
Resentful stalkers pursue a vendetta because of a sense of grievance against the victims – motivated mainly by the desire to frighten and distress the victim.