I use to be a Ritualist and a Paragon in my former life…
(edited by Jaymee.1560)
Requirement for Berserker. Really?
That isn’t Anet’s fault. That’s players enforcing those rules (and the 15k AP requirement is LOL).
It was obvious from the start that once someone found a successful raid comp, everyone would start copying it and trying to enforce it. This was a given.
As for the TD meta, there was a guild helping with the meta last night I believe, people in my guild were talking about it. Its probably the hardest meta in the game at the moment, and people needed to learn it in order to beat it. I’m hoping the guilds that help get more pugs in to learn it will spread and it gets completed more.
I’m flat out not playing Zerk either. I prefer other stats. I’m ok with power/precision/condi. I like Viper. I like Carrion. It’s about how each person plays, more than anything.
My husband and I set up identical twins. He is running Beserker weapons, yep, but… yeah
Husband’s toon – Aranda has 26,000 health
My toon – Amara: Fully Ascended Exotic gear, jewelry, weapons – 16,000 health
We both go into a fight, I must have died about 20 times MORE than he did before that fight was achieved. Ridiculous.
I use to be a Ritualist and a Paragon in my former life…
As for the raid.
If you’re so uncomfortable switching roles that you can’t switch away from the one you’ve chosen, you won’t be able to raid.
Raiding is about constantly figuring out what is needed and see how you can fill that gap.
The thing with the raids is that they are DPS races against the clock and at the same time you’re not allowed to die.
As such you do the least effort you can to not die, just so that it works and then you put the rest of the effort into DPSing.
Also you absolutely cannot have 2 tanks in the raid, so if you and your friend wants to raid together, one of you is going to have to take another role.
Not trying to be elitist here, but that’s just how it is. If you need damage, you need to take people who can do damage.
If you feel confident in your ability to do the raid and nobody is willing to take you, then set up your own raid group with your own rules.
But keep in mind that raids aren’t casual strolls across the meadows, you can’t do like with dungeons and just take whatever roles you want and still clear it.
About tangled depths meta event, that’s also a DPS race but the difference there is that the only mechanic is interacting with things or killing things and because of that, anything other than damage classes is pretty much worthless. What are you going to tank? There’s nothing to tank. What are you healing? Nobody to heal. Again, not being elitist.. It’s just how ANet has made the game.
Not saying that I like it, just explaining the situation.
The 15k ap requirement is just stupid though, I’ll give you that.
I agree that you only need so many tanks and healers with each raid. But there are more damage types than Berzerker! My thief hits 93% crit, 100% if beside/behind the target, with power and ferocity secondary. Granted that’s close to Zerker.
That isn’t Anet’s fault. That’s players enforcing those rules (and the 15k AP requirement is LOL).
It was obvious from the start that once someone found a successful raid comp, everyone would start copying it and trying to enforce it. This was a given.
As for the TD meta, there was a guild helping with the meta last night I believe, people in my guild were talking about it. Its probably the hardest meta in the game at the moment, and people needed to learn it in order to beat it. I’m hoping the guilds that help get more pugs in to learn it will spread and it gets completed more.
It actually entirely Anet’s fault to push player into this meta with their contents. People wouldn’t enforce something if it’s not needed. Chak Gerent and raid is a good example of a dps check. If you don’t run dps, you’re asking people to CARRY YOU because you contribute only 30% compare to other people. In this game, tank is actually the SELFISH spec because you can live very well without being full tank with just good skill rotation.
I agree that you only need so many tanks and healers with each raid. But there are more damage types than Berzerker! My thief hits 93% crit, 100% if beside/behind the target, with power and ferocity secondary. Granted that’s close to Zerker.
People don’t take thief because they didn’t give anything other than damage.
Condition classes are in a new league so I’m going to exclude them for now.
But for other dps classes, Berserkers bring banners/EA.
Herald brings perma might/fury/swiftness/big CC/infinite boon strip, which are all needed in raid. (Thief do bring CC at the cost of dps. Their boon strip also have long CD too ) Herald also brings +150 ferocity to 5 people too. Their “margin of error” is larger than thief due to damage conversion skill and higher armor/health.
Content that was supposed to be “harder than anything we’ve seen before” was never going to be accessible to everyone in PuG groups. I’m sorry that you cannot find a group, but this was to be expected.
(edited by IndigoSundown.5419)
condi is fine in the raid o_O
I see ppl looking for tanks, dps, supports, and condi builds for raids all the time. I guess just wait for a different group to come along or try and get one started. ppl are gonna get silly with the AP reqs and stuff regardless
Really the solution here is just git gud. The top 3 DPS builds in the game right now are condi. Ascended gear isn’t as big of a difference for condi because you have much less scaling from weapon damage. Ascended condi trinkets are basically free from achievments too.
Also as for gear checking people I don’t see that much. My static killed the first two bosses last week and I have carrion armor/wep with sinister trinkets. Was on vacation until yesterday this week so I’ve been pugging and only one group asked me to ping gear and they were fine with me just having trinkets/weapon on my chrono. Haven’t seen anyone ask for AP.
15k+ AP
LOL!!!
I use to be a Ritualist and a Paragon in my former life…
Well, I am not a tank, per se, at least I don’t think I am… that’s what some friends just say is all.
I like to play alone, I play alone 98% of my time, and in playing alone, when I have a reputable Toughness count and anywhere from 29,000 to 32,000, it ensures that if anything, I have good odds of coming out of my battles alive. That works for me, I’m fine with that, I don’t care that it takes me a bit longer to kill something.
But say, with my Guardian, same set up, she has 30,000 health but also a healing rate that when I do, say Grenth or Lyssa, Dwayna or whatever, it is repaid by the amount of people thanking me for keeping them alive, so… how would this not be an asset to the new Metas? Sure, I don’t deal out the damage but I do protect and heal you… isn’t that a benefit to everyone?
I may not be a Death Dealer, but to me, I am making sure that my fellow death dealer stays alive long enough to… deal death… shrugs
I use to be a Ritualist and a Paragon in my former life…
(edited by Jaymee.1560)
Personally several of my toons run beserker setups (mostly), and usually they’re the ones that die pretty fast in the HoT maps unless they’re ranged classes like druid or Tempest(staff).
I find it hilarious to see that the ones that claim zerker is the way to go in open world pve, outside of speedrunners and raids, are exactly the ones that get downed a lot whenever there are events.
A smart move in my opinion, is just to get an exotic berserker set besides what you usually play with, and simply try to learn how far you can go with it before it becomes a fail.
Raids is a different thing alltogether. There, because of the mechanics and timer, players are nearly forced to go for the ‘meta’ in order to finish the fight before time runs out. You need a lot of dps in there, together with a good tank and coordination.
I’ve been in there and frankly, the next time i do a raid will probably be the last day i play this game.
You can also try to find a middle ground, maintaining a high enough dps output while still having enough survivability. It’s not always advisable to go full zerk when you see how many of those are downed and not contributing to a fight.
Although the calculations make a convincing arguement, all it takes is one single mishap to fail. What good is a full asc zerk (including trinkets) when half the fight they’re down and someone needs to rezz them ? That’s 2 ppl not adding to any dps at all. For some classes it works, for some it doesn’t at all.
How many players have you seen downed or dead in the open HoT maps that you know are following the meta ? I regularly see ppl with legendaries and full asc go down because they still forget that in HoT, they’re squishy.
Besides the raids and speedrunners (if they still exist that is), there is no real need to go into that “meta”, and it’s rediculous asking for “15k+ ap” since those are the kind of players that don’t even know what they’re talking about.
AP = achievement points. What the hell has that got to do with skill ? High AP points simply means you did more achievements or you played longer. For the rest it doesn’t mean crap. Certainly not skill, there’s plenty of skilled ppl with less AP then my granny.
Windu pictured it right.
But i also must agree to this :
Raids are designed so that 10 people work together and tailor builds as a unit not have 2-3 people do whatever they please making it harder for others.
Sadly, they’re designed that way. Imo, a bad decision on behalf of the dev’s, esp when they introduce new stats on gears. No logic at all those guys. I think they have 3 teams in their offices working in their own little corner not knowing what the other one does.
One that develops raids and stuff, one that develops gears, and one (the biggest one probably) that designs outfits to make up for the lack of….anything the other 2 groups miss. Hence the overflow in the Cashshop.
“Hey, here’s some new gear ! It’s pretty useless, but at least you get some new outfits to hide it.”
Jaymee, I’ve also never been comfortable running berserker gear, until I played a Revenant that is. First off, I suggest berserker+Valkyrie trinkets for a bit of extra health and the loss of precision shouldn’t really hurt you with the access to Crit chance you have via fury and roiling mists.
The key with Revenant is to take advantage of your evades (e.g. Sword 3, hammer 3), heals, and blocks/damage nullifiers (the herald specialization is phenomenal for this, between the heal and the block on shield 5).
I’ve actually converted all my gear to marauder, which gives a ton of extra survivability without sacrificing a ton of dps (IMO) but don’t know how well that would be received by raid leaders.
Well, I am not a tank, per se, at least I don’t think I am… that’s what some friends just say is all.
I like to play alone, I play alone 98% of my time, and in playing alone, when I have a reputable Toughness count and anywhere from 29,000 to 32,000, it ensures that if anything, I have good odds of coming out of my battles alive. That works for me, I’m fine with that, I don’t care that it takes me a bit longer to kill something.
But say, with my Guardian, same set up, she has 30,000 health but also a healing rate that when I do, say Grenth or Lyssa, Dwayna or whatever, it is repaid by the amount of people thanking me for keeping them alive, so… how would this not be an asset to the new Metas? Sure, I don’t deal out the damage but I do protect and heal you… isn’t that a benefit to everyone?
I may not be a Death Dealer, but to me, I am making sure that my fellow death dealer stays alive long enough to… deal death… shrugs
Raids work differently than the open world content.
The biggest difference you have to consider is that the boss only attacks the player with the highest toughness stat (the stat that adds to your armor, not your health)
There is other damage going on, but it’s not very much and most of it is highly avoidable.
The bosses need to be killed relatively fast and their fights are full of mechanics that wipe the party for messing up certain aspects of the fight. So the longer the fight takes, the more chances you have to mess up and wipe.
So when people are looking for players to fill up the raid they will only want one tank. The other players don’t take enough damage to need any armor or health. Maybe a little health mixed in from Valkyrie’s or Carrion (depending on condi or power) but most people are fine with 100% glass cannon.
The point is, a second tank in the raid serves no purpose.
The problem isn’t that you want to play a tank build. The problem is that you’re expecting people to take you when they’re currently looking for DPS. Maybe you’ll find a group looking for a tank and you can play your guardian with them. But if you wanna get in raids you should be flexible and play multiple roles.
The problem isn’t that you want to play a tank build. The problem is that you’re expecting people to take you when they’re currently looking for DPS. Maybe you’ll find a group looking for a tank and you can play your guardian with them. But if you wanna get in raids you should be flexible and play multiple roles.
No, I am not “expecting” anything actually, and I’m pretty dang flexible
The “problem” as you put it is that there are more players than not demanding “15k+ APs Fully Ascended Berserker Gear, to be PINGED to the squad leader before he even admits you into the party.” THAT’S the problem.
That to me is going passed being an Elite and going straight to Elitist Mode. The moment these start adding specie restriction to the mix, they’ll have graduated cracking whips.
I use to be a Ritualist and a Paragon in my former life…
(edited by Jaymee.1560)
Going to give you some advice.
Avoid, at all costs, people requiring AP for Raids.
Actually, avoid those requiring AP in general, I don’t know where the metric came from but it is beyond irrelevant.
Suicidal Warrior.
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
Putting Perspective on Zerg Sizes since 2012. Common Suffixes for 40+ include ~Zilla and ~Train
“Seriously, just dodge.”
The problem isn’t that you want to play a tank build. The problem is that you’re expecting people to take you when they’re currently looking for DPS. Maybe you’ll find a group looking for a tank and you can play your guardian with them. But if you wanna get in raids you should be flexible and play multiple roles.
No, I am not “expecting” anything actually, and I’m pretty dang flexible
The “problem” as you put it is that there are more players than not demanding “15k+ APs Fully Ascended Berserker Gear, to be PINGED to the squad leader before he even admits you into the party.” THAT’S the problem.
That to me is going passed being an Elite and going straight to Elitist Mode. The moment these start adding specie restriction to the mix, they’ll have graduated cracking whips.
Aside from the AP requirement, which is somewhat understandable (see below),
that’s the gear needed to complete the content. Without nine zerkers (“condi zerkers” included), you can’t beat the raid. It’s as simple as that.
The raid leader doesn’t want someone sneaking in with gear that’s going to cause the raid to fail, wasting 10 people’s worth of time. And people will try to do that, hence the gear pinging.
As for the AP requirement: The raid leader obviously would like a way to measure potential squad members’ experience with the game. AP, while not being a great metric for that, is the best available — it’s better than nothing.
Of course DPS meters would the issue as it’d be easy to see who’s freeloading, but whatever casuals who haven’t left the game due to HoT’s grind are REALLY not going to like that.
The problem isn’t that you want to play a tank build. The problem is that you’re expecting people to take you when they’re currently looking for DPS. Maybe you’ll find a group looking for a tank and you can play your guardian with them. But if you wanna get in raids you should be flexible and play multiple roles.
No, I am not “expecting” anything actually, and I’m pretty dang flexible
The “problem” as you put it is that there are more players than not demanding “15k+ APs Fully Ascended Berserker Gear, to be PINGED to the squad leader before he even admits you into the party.” THAT’S the problem.
That to me is going passed being an Elite and going straight to Elitist Mode. The moment these start adding specie restriction to the mix, they’ll have graduated cracking whips.
If you’re flexible that means you’d be willing to swap to a glass cannon character to fill a role that the raid needs.
I’m not sure about the 15k AP thing because I only play with my group but that sounds kinda ridiculous and I don’t think most groups would be asking for it.
Lol raids need dps pure and simple. If you want to be a burden on your team with your “tank” build than join a guild and ask them to carry you. 15k achievement points is pretty darn stupid though.
I’m of the same opinion, but even more so. I believe that asking to display armor should be an auto-ban. It is a personal affront to me for someone to question my ability to play like this: in a way that assumes the worst.
I possess gear that would qualify, but I’ll never play with such a team. Unfortunately the system allows them to ask. So, the bottom line is that I’ll probably never raid.
ANet, you want to fix this? It seems unlikely, but if you do, it’s simple: create an instanced entry lobby for geared-up people only. Then ban anybody for asking elsewhere.
i run the builds i like and work best for me . and that sure is not a cookie cutter build at all. nor is it a Berserker or any of that other junk . and thos asking what my build or any other persons build is to do a raid should be banned !!!! and far as this meta junk goes it is uselesss and most pointless on top of it all . back in guild wars one . we did not have these problems we have here. and them problems came with thos who wish to live in a cookie cutter world . and think it should be there way or you can not raid at all . that is noting more then corn cumbers . and horse hockey you do not like them pickles . then you need to find your self a different group that will take you . i sure will not take you thats for sure
I’m of the same opinion, but even more so. I believe that asking to display armor should be an auto-ban. It is a personal affront to me for someone to question my ability to play like this: in a way that assumes the worst.
I possess gear that would qualify, but I’ll never play with such a team. Unfortunately the system allows them to ask. So, the bottom line is that I’ll probably never raid.
ANet, you want to fix this? It seems unlikely, but if you do, it’s simple: create an instanced entry lobby for geared-up people only. Then ban anybody for asking elsewhere.
that there is a good idea all the way around. and i have to agree with you on the first part
This reminds me of that Ethan Hawke movie “Gattaca”. He wanted to get on the space shuttle but he had a heart condition. So he impersonated another guy and got on the shuttle. The movie painted that like it was a good thing. And yet, he was endangering everybody else on that shuttle …and they didn’t even know it.
Contrast that with Star Trek III where Kirk and co risk everything to find the regenerated Spock (hope that wasn’t a spoiler for anybody). In that case, the ‘needs of the one outweigh the needs of the many’ (as Kirk put it) was apt, since the many (i.e. Kirk, McCoy, Scotty, etc) knew what they were getting into and chose to do it.
I guess what I’m saying is… Gattaca sucked.
Also, I’m not bothered if a raid group doesn’t want me cause of my specs/skills. They’re dedicating their time/effort to a considerable task and they have a right to know who they’re playing with. I wouldn’t want to be carried if I’m not up to their level. Also, can’t I just create my own raid group, advertising for like-minded people of my skill/spec level?
Asking for auto-bans against people who don’t play the same way seems like a double-edged sword. It can seem like a good idea… until it’s used against you.
This is hard content. If you don’t like it then play something else. There’s plenty to do with ignoring raids. These fights are tough. If you have half the group running stats like vit and toughness you are not going to win. It’s just not going to happen so hence the gear checks.
People that put time and effort into getting ascended for raids feel that they want to play with people that also put the time into getting ascended. Sure it’s not super necessary outside of trinkets and weapons. But people put a lot of work into getting ascended and they can choose to party up with others that did too for raids. Overall raid DPS is slightly increased if the whole raid has ascended and you can’t blame people who put the work into getting full ascended for wanting that.
If you don’t want to play that way it’s fine you can make your own raid group. Granted you probably will get a lot of people who are also rejected from raids for running the wrong builds and stats making it impossible to win but that’s just my opinion.
So the solution is quite simple to this. Just make your own group if you have a problem finding one. Just realize it’s going to be very hard to win and most likely impossible. You can blame this on Andt if you want but there are a lot of people that were wanting challenging content. Of course there are people that want casual content too and gw2 has plenty of that so you can always choose to play that content too.
So…. You can play your way. Make your own group. Don’t force people to play your way (no gear ping, no meta or whatever).
(edited by Andraus.3874)
the zerk meta is dead, long live the zerk and one friend meta!
This is simply bugging me, it is.
I am not one to run the Berserker build, I don’t like it, I have tried it many times in the last 3+ years and it just doesn’t mesh with me. Yet it never hindered my gameplay until… now… seemingly.
I run a tank build, so does my husband. If not Tank then Condition. This is my choice. This choice never seemed to affect how I far I got into the game until the release of the Raids.
It seems almost impossible for me to get into a raid party. I see people starting up Raid parties with the following demands:
15k+ AP, full set of Ascended Berserker Gear, that MUST be pinged to squad leader before he even CONSIDERS you to be apart of the party.
This to me is… absurd, I’m sorry.
Tangled Depths Meta. I still have yet to learn this event, and I WANT to, yet just the other night, no one doing it would take me in their squad because I wasn’t running berserker.
Listen, I understand completely why this build is strongly coveted, but… but not everyone can run that build successfully.
Is it really fair to punish those of us who are not Berserkers? Heck, even me and my husband last night set up out alternate account to have a Beserker Reverent. I ran her and kept dying left and right left and right, left and right…
Listen, playing the game of “Let’s see who dies first” may be for for you, but it isn’t to me. I’m allowed to partake in these events too, ya know. And I am hitting a point now where I am beginning to not even want to play at all cause people won’t let me join the events.
Don’t punish me…
It sounds like they were complete jerks. As a question, what class do you currently play?
I’ll admit that I have been avoiding raids because people can be the most elitist ever and that just doesn’t sit well with me. I’ve been fine running berserker gear but only because I play elementalist and have a lot of ways to get out of painful situations.
I highly suggest finding a group of players who you can play with that aren’t random people on the internet. Maybe guild members? Best advice I got for dealing with pugs. But it is pretty unreasonable how much players expect out of others just to even get into a group, even for raids.
Playing the tank might also help (I understand it isn’t much better since now you are locked into a class but…people will be people).
Dragon’s Stand is incredibly fun though, have you tried it? Tangled Depths is mostly a loss but DS, AB, and VB are all in good fun (and in order of easiest to complete to hardest, thanks raid portal.)
If you can’t solo the open world without dying in glass gear, you can’t complete the raids anyway. You shouldn’t want to do raids because they aren’t meant for you.
It’s like if you liked to compete in basement fight clubs and were upset you couldn’t get licensed for a pro boxing match, when in reality, you would just get knocked out immediately.
Join a casual guild. My guild doesn’t exclude people due to build or profession or anything else. Everyone has the freedom to play how they want, which includes being elitist. But then, I don’t enjoy playing with elitists, so I’m happy not to.
15k+ AP, full set of Ascended Berserker Gear, that MUST be pinged to squad leader before he even CONSIDERS you to be apart of the party.
Such nonsense.
I ping for no man.
OP, I realize this sucks, but I think you just have to accept that you won’t be able to raid. The bosses were not designed with anyone running sub-optimal damage builds in mind and players have rightly figured out that there isn’t very much room for error here. I’m not generally a fan of zerker builds either (plus I don’t have a guild to run with regularly), which is why I’m just not bothering to try to raid.
That isn’t Anet’s fault.
No, it’s entirely ANet’s fault, if you want to call it a fault. There’s still no reason to run anything else than full damage unless you want to give yourself a slightly larger margin of error, and by sticking such a short timer on raid bosses, they’ve forced us to optimize for kill speed, which means dealing absolutely as much damage as possible. They’ve successfully forced us to run some condi builds (which deal almost as much — if not more than — zerker builds now anyway) and a healer, but even the tank is encouraged to build as much damage as possible.
The Zerker dungeon meta wasn’t really a problem for everyone else because you could always just toss together your own group of misfits and force your way through; it would take a little longer, but you’d still be able to complete most paths without too much hassle. Now that there’s a strict timer, though, clear speed absolutely matters. Rather than break the zerker meta, ANet has merely altered it ever so slightly and then made it mandatory.
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
The Zerker dungeon meta wasn’t really a problem for everyone else because you could always just toss together your own group of misfits and force your way through; it would take a little longer, but you’d still be able to complete most paths without too much hassle. Now that there’s a strict timer, though, clear speed absolutely matters. Rather than break the zerker meta, ANet has merely altered it ever so slightly and then made it mandatory.
This.
ANet did its bit to break the “all-zerker” meta, which was their goal. They combined this with what is to date harder content than the game has offered. The harder content is, the less wiggle room there is for error. Dungeons offered content that was doable with any comp, albeit that some comps found them super easy and others had to struggle. In a game where both skill and passive character attributes like build choices and gear offer variance in effectiveness, tighter tolerances in the game mechanics mean that players are going to exercise tighter restrictions in selecting teammates.
In the end, ANet is very much responsible for the exclusion. Players are setting the restrictions, but Anet designed the content and put rewards that players would want in there. A desire for Legendary Armor may have a slight correlation with a “raid mentality,” but it is likely slight.
Zerg meta is gone,only need zerg if you want the dps role but there is a healer condition and one tank role to ^^
You should probably stop joining groups asking for zerker only and gearchecks, in my three years of running dungeons, I never had to ping my gear a single time when running pug groups even though I’ve always been running zerker or viper/sin.
Never seen anyone ask for gearcheck in an open world event EVER, so either you’re extremely unlucky or you picked the worst lfg on purpose.
As for raids, just forget about those, it’s either adapt or give up, there’s a requirement for very specific roles and anyone running suboptimal build or not playing at its absolute best is pretty much dead weight.
I don’t want to be mean, but either you stop joining that 1/10 group that obviously doesn’t want you from the start and pick any of the other lfg that don’t care about gear or you try to adapt to the trend of running full zerk just so you can join the most autistic groups ever.
This is simply bugging me, it is.
15k+ AP, full set of Ascended Berserker Gear, that MUST be pinged to squad leader before he even CONSIDERS you to be apart of the party.
I come from a long lasting WoW background and I can tell you one thing – people putting such silly requirements for raids (especially achievement points…) do so, because they, themselves, suck and want to be carried by others with more skill/better gear. Avoid groups like that, because it will essentially make it 9 manning the raid.
Yes, the zerker meta didn’t really suffer from raids being introduced, yes, you need one tankier person and some condi, but still, the pure dps output matters the most. That’s sadly the flaw on the very core design however and i don’t expect it to be fixed anytime soon if at all.
Endgame content, with any MMO, in always about min/maxing for the best efficiency. DPS checks are common mechanic and when you think about how healing, dodging and downed state work in GW2, there isn’t really whole lot that can be do change it. Best way? Find a more laid back guild that won’t mind giving you a go in raids in a more casual environment. LFG is for desperate people ^^
As for TD meta. From all the fails i’ve seen, the problem rarely was damage output on the boss, most of the times it’s one of the lanes failing to lure it out, due to all sorts of various reasons. Maybe people will learn, maybe the bugs will be fixed, or maybe it will remain as elusive as Triple Trouble.
Threads of this nature are starting to bug me a little. I think people should be able to wear whatever armour stats they like and play the game in whatever way they feel. That’s freedom of choice, the same as people forming a raid team should also have freedom of choice. If that team doesn’t want players who wear certain armour stats then fine.
What is starting to bug me is listening to people say they want to do whatever they like but then in their next breath they ask that others are denied that freedom.
Oh and with regards to the 15K ap, that’s a joke. Better to say, ’must have a map completion star’ at least then you can assume the player knows a little about the class they’re running. I’ll give you an example, I have full light zerker ascended armour, plenty of zerker ascended trinkets and lots of zerker ascended weapons all of which are account bound. I also have stacks of level up tomes. I could make say an ele, insta level it and kit it out with all zerker ascended stuff, I’d pass the gear check but have no idea what I was doing. How is ap any kind of indicator towards player experience for a particular class?
“Judge a person’s character by how they behave when given anonymity.”
Welcome to the Internet, exposing characters since the early 80’s.
Welcome to the Internet, exposing characters since the early 80’s.
Stupid things that players do are their own responsibility.
But it is the developer’s responsibility to lay the ground work that incentivises all-round positive player interaction through the game rules and mechanics.
With HoT Arenanet has decided to switch the end game from the focus on incentivising positive player interaction that the core game had over to a run-of-the-mill end game scheme almost blatanty copied over from the countless other MMOs out there.
The new end game design philosophy now only caters for ego-centricity in players and overall endless apexis crystal farming style gameplay.
So just chug it or just drop this lost cause of an expansion end game until they either fix it or you really stop to care about what is GW2.
There are other hobbies out there that play fine with an interest in positive group interaction.
That isn’t Anet’s fault. That’s players enforcing those rules
Making an environment where encounters are dps checks (on top of other requirements) definitely is anet’s fault.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
This is simply bugging me, it is.
I am not one to run the Berserker build, I don’t like it, I have tried it many times in the last 3+ years and it just doesn’t mesh with me. Yet it never hindered my gameplay until… now… seemingly.
I run a tank build, so does my husband. If not Tank then Condition. This is my choice. This choice never seemed to affect how I far I got into the game until the release of the Raids.
It seems almost impossible for me to get into a raid party. I see people starting up Raid parties with the following demands:
15k+ AP, full set of Ascended Berserker Gear, that MUST be pinged to squad leader before he even CONSIDERS you to be apart of the party.
This to me is… absurd, I’m sorry.
Tangled Depths Meta. I still have yet to learn this event, and I WANT to, yet just the other night, no one doing it would take me in their squad because I wasn’t running berserker.
Listen, I understand completely why this build is strongly coveted, but… but not everyone can run that build successfully.
Is it really fair to punish those of us who are not Berserkers? Heck, even me and my husband last night set up out alternate account to have a Beserker Reverent. I ran her and kept dying left and right left and right, left and right…
Listen, playing the game of “Let’s see who dies first” may be for for you, but it isn’t to me. I’m allowed to partake in these events too, ya know. And I am hitting a point now where I am beginning to not even want to play at all cause people won’t let me join the events.
Don’t punish me…
You’ve obviously not raided so let’s fill you in.
Raids are hard – you need to be up to par. If you’re not you’re going to drag the other 9 people down.
I was in groups where 1 person not being up to par made us fail repeatedly. It’s that simple really.
People are now screening harder than ever before to make sure they get the best possible teammates.
Your choices of playing make you undesirable as a teammate to these people. So change and adapt or learn to live with it.
If you cannot run that build successfully it means you’re not “good enough”. It means you’re not as good as the people who you want to run with want you to be.
They have a right to choose the people they play with – they set the bar as high as they want – if you can’t perform up to those requirements why should they take you with them?
I ran her and kept dying left and right left and right, left and right…
This is the problem – people want berserker revenants that don’t die – until you become that you’re not desirable.
I’m allowed to partake in these events too, ya know.
Sure – make your own groups, your own raids – whatever. You’re allowed to do whatever you want – but other people are just as allowed to avoid you and not play with you if they don’t want to.
You are punishing yourself.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
That isn’t Anet’s fault. That’s players enforcing those rules (and the 15k AP requirement is LOL).
It was obvious from the start that once someone found a successful raid comp, everyone would start copying it and trying to enforce it. This was a given.
As for the TD meta, there was a guild helping with the meta last night I believe, people in my guild were talking about it. Its probably the hardest meta in the game at the moment, and people needed to learn it in order to beat it. I’m hoping the guilds that help get more pugs in to learn it will spread and it gets completed more.
It actually entirely Anet’s fault to push player into this meta with their contents. People wouldn’t enforce something if it’s not needed. Chak Gerent and raid is a good example of a dps check. If you don’t run dps, you’re asking people to CARRY YOU because you contribute only 30% compare to other people. In this game, tank is actually the SELFISH spec because you can live very well without being full tank with just good skill rotation.
Actually people will enforce something even if it’s not needed as long as it’s efficient and optimal – look at dungeons and the zerker meta.
Was zerker needed to clear dungeons? No – yet it was still enforced.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
The problem isn’t that you want to play a tank build. The problem is that you’re expecting people to take you when they’re currently looking for DPS. Maybe you’ll find a group looking for a tank and you can play your guardian with them. But if you wanna get in raids you should be flexible and play multiple roles.
No, I am not “expecting” anything actually, and I’m pretty dang flexible
The “problem” as you put it is that there are more players than not demanding “15k+ APs Fully Ascended Berserker Gear, to be PINGED to the squad leader before he even admits you into the party.” THAT’S the problem.
That to me is going passed being an Elite and going straight to Elitist Mode. The moment these start adding specie restriction to the mix, they’ll have graduated cracking whips.
Let me explain something.
Raids are hard. Really hard. Nobody raids just for the heck of it – people want to complete. People want the kill.
What you call “elitist” is just people trying their best to beat the content. They want to win the fight not just experience it.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
The Zerker dungeon meta wasn’t really a problem for everyone else because you could always just toss together your own group of misfits and force your way through; it would take a little longer, but you’d still be able to complete most paths without too much hassle. Now that there’s a strict timer, though, clear speed absolutely matters. Rather than break the zerker meta, ANet has merely altered it ever so slightly and then made it mandatory.
This.
ANet did its bit to break the “all-zerker” meta, which was their goal. They combined this with what is to date harder content than the game has offered. The harder content is, the less wiggle room there is for error. Dungeons offered content that was doable with any comp, albeit that some comps found them super easy and others had to struggle. In a game where both skill and passive character attributes like build choices and gear offer variance in effectiveness, tighter tolerances in the game mechanics mean that players are going to exercise tighter restrictions in selecting teammates.
In the end, ANet is very much responsible for the exclusion. Players are setting the restrictions, but Anet designed the content and put rewards that players would want in there. A desire for Legendary Armor may have a slight correlation with a “raid mentality,” but it is likely slight.
Pretty much – Anet made hard content for hardcore players when they made raids. All these complaints are coming from people that haven’t realized they’re not the intended demographic for this content.
If here they fall they shall live on when ever you cry “For Ascalon!”
Threads of this nature are starting to bug me a little. I think people should be able to wear whatever armour stats they like and play the game in whatever way they feel. That’s freedom of choice, the same as people forming a raid team should also have freedom of choice. If that team doesn’t want players who wear certain armour stats then fine.
Freedom of choice doesn’t mean freedom from consequences. If I go on a racist rant at work, I have the freedom to do so without fear of incarceration but my employer is also well within their rights to fire me.
You’re free to attempt the raid wearing Rare level 70 Soldier’s armor if you want, but that doesn’t mean you’re going to be able to beat the raid and it certainly doesn’t mean the other 9 members of your team are obligated to try to carry you.
Would I like it if Raids were a bit more open to varying strategies? I absolutely would. The way they are now, I’m probably never going to be able to beat them, so I don’t bother. There’s so much else to do (in this game and in others), and while I’m irritated that ANet has locked raids behind such a tight DPS check, I’m not going to blame players for playing this part of the game the only way ANet has left open to them.
Pretty much – Anet made hard content for hardcore players when they made raids. All these complaints are coming from people that haven’t realized they’re not the intended demographic for this content.
I don’t think it’s out of line to object to the way Anet’s designed these raids, though, particularly since they made such a big to-do out of “ending the Zerker meta.” Surely it must be possible to create hard content for hardcore players that actually gives tankiness value, right? Heck, as I understand it, even the healer is supposed to go full damage and just rely on their base heal values to cover everyone. I’d also like to see content that’s actually challenging and not just a matter of everyone memorizing and executing a complicated script in a precise way, but at this point my faith in ANet’s ability to achieve even the design goals they set for themselves in more than a surface way is fading.
But while it’s fair to petition ANet for better design, it isn’t fair to rail against the players who are merely reacting to that design. That’s just silly.
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
(edited by Blaine Tog.8304)
unfortunately, you described why you will not be raiding anytime soon in your post. the content was designed to be difficult.
maybe after some time it will get toned down. nobody knows.
But while it’s fair to petition ANet for better design, it isn’t fair to rail against the players who are merely reacting to that design. That’s just silly.
Which is why OP is aiming his complains at developers, not players. It’s Anet that messed up.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
I cannot find it but i can swear i recall a dev saying something along the lines of ….“Everything has a meta.” Might have been an interview or something.
Raids are going to be no different.
You can either be stubborn and not adapt to that, or be flexible. Your call, one has 0 chance at success in raids, the other has a much greater chance.
People wanted raiding, they get the drama that goes along with it.
But while it’s fair to petition ANet for better design, it isn’t fair to rail against the players who are merely reacting to that design. That’s just silly.
Which is why OP is aiming his complains at developers, not players. It’s Anet that messed up.
Whether that’s what the OP meant or not, that isn’t what they actually said. Seriously, go back and skim through the thread. All of his/her objections have been leveled at other players.
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
Forum bug fix.
/15Charr