Guild Wars 2

I’m kinda embarrassed being part of this community right now. The vocal minority is showing an obscene level of disrespect to the developers.

So you’re not perfectly happy, that is no excuse for this type of behavior. Please, show some respect and discuss your feelings in a civilized manner.

As to the patch, I’d like to thank Anet for their hard work. I know that the team wants the game to be the best it can be, and I appreciate their work and think it shows in game.

I look forward to further updates and tweaks as GW2 continues to grow.

You just “Offended” the vocal minority by calling them a minority. Prepare for a possible ragefest about how they thinnk they’re the majority because they say so.

Onto the thread topic. I love this game and can’t thank the Devs enough for the enjoyment that it has brought me. Though my thanks is less noticeable when weighed against the baw’ers of these forums.

I agree with the OP. If I ever become a dev, I think I’ll learn to avoid general forums other than the bugs forum after a new patch.
The problems people see seem to blind them from the strengths the game has.

Come now. Respect should work both ways. If people expressing their concerns with the update should word their worries with respect, so too, should the people disagreeing with them.

Michael Sizemore.9603:

I’m kinda embarrassed being part of this community right now. The vocal minority is showing an obscene level of disrespect to the developers.

How about anet respect the players more.

I’m not saying not to voice your opinions. I’m asking that you do so with some class.

Michael Sizemore.9603:

I’m not saying not to voice your opinions. I’m asking that you do so with some class.

I’ll make an Anet promise, no more disrespect.

Frankly, the brown-nosing is even more obnoxious than the complaining.

FacesOfMu.3561:

I agree with the OP. If I ever become a dev, I think I’ll learn to avoid general forums other than the bugs forum after a new patch.
The problems people see seem to blind them from the strengths the game has.

That’s why you need to put on your kevlar gear bro and tough it out. Community feedback is good for the game, even if it’s negative and not really constructive.

I don’t know about you, but my understanding is that respect, like trust, has to be earned, not given. Death shroud UI in necro is still broken, pet AI (necro and ranger) is still broken, every class only has several working builds, only 1 or 2 skins for every weapon type for legendary, etc.

This game is far from what I’d call a finished game. Anet has not earned any respect nor trust from me.

Cosine.1786:

Frankly, the brown-nosing is even more obnoxious than the complaining.

Brown nosing occurs when a person is seeking special or better attention. That is not happening here as it is not possible to achieve the favor/being liked more by Anet as it would be unprofessional.

Syktek.7912:

Cosine.1786:

Frankly, the brown-nosing is even more obnoxious than the complaining.

Brown nosing occurs when a person is seeking special or better attention.

The achievement of it is irrelevant. It’s the seeking it that constitutes brown-nosing regardless of success or failure. lol

In my opinion, that whole “respect” thing doesn’t have anything to do with liking /sucking up to ANet or not. It’s basic human decency.

Nappychappy.7046:

I’d assume you are the minority, these posts are like 1 in 100.

Don’t worry, Anet will push us all away in do time.

You do relize alot of people that bother going to forums only go to kitten most people that are happy with the content dont bother

Celtic Lady.3729:

Syktek.7912:

Cosine.1786:

Frankly, the brown-nosing is even more obnoxious than the complaining.

Brown nosing occurs when a person is seeking special or better attention.

The achievement of it is irrelevant. It’s the seeking it that constitutes brown-nosing regardless of success or failure. lol

If one knows the achievement of it is not possible, they will not do it. Anyone with common sense knows this.

However most users on this forum lack common sense…but OP may have it; given he’s actually given constructive criticism with his complaint.

Aequitas.6402:

In my opinion, that whole “respect” thing doesn’t have anything to do with liking /sucking up to ANet or not. It’s basic human decency.

This.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

Nappychappy.7046:

I’d assume you are the minority, these posts are like 1 in 100.

Don’t worry, Anet will push us all away in do time.

You do relize alot of people that bother going to forums only go to kitten most people that are happy with the content dont bother

Man, I have no idea what you said.

johnnycosmic.9130:

Hey Dudelove you must be trippin because all the post in disagreement with the games current state look more civilized then your post jabbering about disrespect, minority, obscene. Im glad your happy with that game, some people aren’t, that’s not any more disrespect they feel from Anet then you feel from them, you dig it?

Dudelove?

Michael Sizemore.9603:

I’m not saying not to voice your opinions. I’m asking that you do so with some class.

Hey, chief, I respected the developers when I dropped $170 on the CE. When issues I have with the game go unaddressed — not even talking about fixed, but not so much as acknowledged — I’ll say whatever the hell I please. If that offends you, tough.

ANet is a big successful company. They don’t need you being their white knight, wagging your self-righteous finger in the faces of other paying customers.

Syktek.7912

If one knows the achievement of it is not possible, they will not do it.

I disagree. I’ve seen many, many examples of people attempting to influence the opinions/feelings of others even when there is little to no chance of success.

Blacklight.2871:

Michael Sizemore.9603:

I’m not saying not to voice your opinions. I’m asking that you do so with some class.

Hey, chief, I respected the developers when I dropped $170 on the CE. When issues I have with the game go unaddressed — not even talking about fixed, but not so much as acknowledged — I’ll say whatever the hell I please. If that offends you, tough.

ANet is a big successful company. They don’t need you being their white knight, wagging your self-righteous finger in the faces of other paying customers.

Feel better after that rant? Want hug it out? Seriously though, I think you may have missed the point.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Syktek.7912

If one knows the achievement of it is not possible, they will not do it.

I disagree. I’ve seen many, many examples of people attempting to influence the opinions/feelings of others even when there is little to no chance of success.

Can’t disagree with that.

Blacklight.2871:

Michael Sizemore.9603:

I’m not saying not to voice your opinions. I’m asking that you do so with some class.

Hey, chief, I respected the developers when I dropped $170 on the CE. When issues I have with the game go unaddressed — not even talking about fixed, but not so much as acknowledged — I’ll say whatever the hell I please. If that offends you, tough.

ANet is a big successful company. They don’t need you being their white knight, wagging your self-righteous finger in the faces of other paying customers.

Nobody ever said you cannot or should not be able to say whatever you want, just that you’re a dirtbag if you use that right for nothing but disrespect, childish complaints, and written/verbal abuse. Which is completely true.

100% agreed with OP. Some of the people here are just malcontents with nothing better to do than hang around forums for a game that they supposedly don’t play or enjoy at all. Suggestions, criticism, complaints — all of those things are fine and dandy. However, there are those who seem to think this forum is where you come to vent, or make demands, or scrawl long diatribes detailing your conspiracy theories about how GW2 is “not the game we were promised,” whatever that means.

But, this is probably another one of those “brown-nosing” posts that are so terrible. Apparently, that’s a thing now. We just make a post a shade more thoughtful than “GRIND WARS 2 IZ DEAD” and we get free gold and gems showered onto our account..?

I find the most disrespectful and insulting responses are directed at people making a complaint about the game. It can be a calm, rational complaint about something that is broken, but it will be met with hostility from another user. One person’s criticism of a game isn’t personal towards other players, so there’s no need to react with insults.

I rarely see people just accepting that someone else has a different opinion. Sometimes it’s trying to convince that person they are wrong, but mostly it’s just ridiculing them for having that opinion via the unconstructive “QQ”, “whiners”, “idiots”. These posts don’t contribute to the topics but they remain.

I feel like reasonable-minded people of any opinion are driven off of the forum because they don’t want to deal with the hostility.

Michael Sizemore.9603:

So you’re not perfectly happy, that is no excuse for this type of behavior. Please, show some respect and discuss your feelings in a civilized manner.

This is an internet forum. If the discussion is being conducted using an understandable form of English, then it’s civilized enough.

Clark Skinner.4902:

I find the most disrespectful and insulting responses are directed at people making a complaint about the game.

This, along with the rest of his post, but especially this quoted part.

And, to add my own opinion to this, the fanboy posts are always so shallow. “OMG I LUV U ANET” is no more worth being discussed than “OMG THIS GAME IS TEH SUCKS.”

At least even the most trolling complaint post can randomly degenerate into an actually worthwhile discussion about MMOs. Brown nosing goes nowhere.

Conncept.7638:

Nobody ever said you cannot or should not be able to say whatever you want, just that you’re a dirtbag if you use that right for nothing but disrespect, childish complaints, and written/verbal abuse. Which is completely true.

Really? That is what you come back with?

How is it childish for someone to have a legitimate complaint about a product he purchased with his money? Now, if he is doing nothing but insulting, see quote above, I see the problem, but if he is only asking and doing so out of concern for his investment there is nothing wrong.

Clark Skinner.4902:

I find the most disrespectful and insulting responses are directed at people making a complaint about the game. It can be a calm, rational complaint about something that is broken, but it will be met with hostility from another user.

This is extremely common. It seems like so many people take any suggestions or concerns, no matter how respectfully made, personally and start ranting themselves about how everyone wants the game to be as easy as breathing and how we all want everything handed to us. This response is equally embarrasing and unwarranted.

Vanthian.9267:

Conncept.7638:

Nobody ever said you cannot or should not be able to say whatever you want, just that you’re a dirtbag if you use that right for nothing but disrespect, childish complaints, and written/verbal abuse. Which is completely true.

Really? That is what you come back with?

How is it childish for someone to have a legitimate complaint about a product he purchased with his money? Now, if he is doing nothing but insulting, see quote above, I see the problem, but if he is only asking and doing so out of concern for his investment there is nothing wrong.

It isn’t and I agree with you, except the majority are doing nothing but childishly flinging insults at anywhere their mob mentality directs them to. And I don’t know if that guy is one of them, but I never said he was.

Minority or not… it really doesn’t matter.

A little oil dump spreads in the ocean….. just like a little insult spreads the need to bring up the same topics over and over again. Metaphorically, the actual issue is with those people who ignores the oil, and tries to say “hey guys, look at how much blue ocean are still out there (points to the blue areas outside of the oil spill)”.

Reloading.3260:

Welcome to the new generation and the internet.

Online discourse went rapidly downhill alongside the growth of the internet. I miss the days of BBS’s and FidoNet.

Meh, the old timers were no better, but the community was smaller, players had more direct access to developers (and vice versa), development studios were smaller and the demands on them were more transparent, and generally there was more incentive to play nice.

sigh People calm down.

Trolls will always live…if you choose to ignore them then that would be best choice imo

FacesOfMu.3561:

I agree with the OP. If I ever become a dev, I think I’ll learn to avoid general forums other than the bugs forum after a new patch.
The problems people see seem to blind them from the strengths the game has.

I am developer, but I make financial software, analysis and organization tools – business applications. Regarding forums(AKA feedback) trust me, you want it. Worse thing is when you make something and there is no feedback. Without feedback, you don’t know if your program works or not, are there bugs and so on.

Another thing that you want it is gathering information. The more information you gather, the bigger base resource you have. On big resources, you apply proper analysis and statistics. The second one, statistics can be a big trap if you make it wrong or someone want to cheat but proper statistic is good. With it, you can keep tracking of trends, find proper moment to act on the market, acquire customers easier, track your own employees and their working habits… Possibilities are endless.

When you don’t have feedback, your program can have bugs, loosing data, crashing etc. This can nail you as worst programmer, loosing money and generally, make you worthless.

Regarding forums: you can distinct various types of posts depending what you want to know. You can make mechanics to distinct trolls from others, flamers from supporters and so on. If someone making a lot of posts on a forum with tons of suggestions and getting too little pluses from other players, within statistics you can flag such user with “spamming boring ideas”. After you can see the ones that had few good ideas, those that had many good ideas and focus on them. Compare responses to their threads and keep track where trend is going, compare with your capabilities, compare with present ingame content and possible conflicts, plan for long run content…

Basically, feedback in any form (forum or other) is free research ground for the developers/company that you can turn into a profit.

FacesOfMu.3561:

The problems people see seem to blind them from the strengths the game has.

That goes both ways. It’s really easy to lose objectivity regarding something you’ve created. You may not even be aware that it’s flawed without the opinion of an outside observer to provide some perspective.

If you’re a developer or a mod and you can’t handle the tone of the forums, you should probably take off those big boy pants you borrowed and put your huggies back on.

But, as a blind supporter of the game, you’re always free to bide your time, since invariably people who are dissatisfied with the game will leave, even if it’s not according to a timeline you approve of.

PS: You wouldn’t happen to know anything about this guy, Mu, who would write humorous blogs about beta testing Asheron’s Call, would you?

The moderators are perfectly able to moderate people who are rude. Never seen an issue with that. Personally I had to stop playing yesterday because the patch makes me DC. But ok, even that is not a reason to be rude. Though I believe many people start posting when something like that happens. They should calm down first and then post.

Ansultares.1567:

FacesOfMu.3561:

The problems people see seem to blind them from the strengths the game has.

That goes both ways. It’s really easy to lose objectivity regarding something you’ve created. You may not even be aware that it’s flawed without the opinion of an outside observer to provide some perspective.

Not only the developers loose objectivity. Both the rage side and the unconditional fan have lost objectivity.

Great post,Michael! You are completely right.

The game is awesome compared to everything else on the MMO market. Most of the people I play with think so. Community on many servers is strong, helpful and friendly. This is because the game is very good.

Also, you are pretty right that we see the vocal minority here. Most of the players are far most respectful and informed. One can clearly see that in threads that are about builds, wvw tactics and matches, etc.

I for one would like to thank Anet for the game. Your efforts and dedication are highly appreciated

Shills, trolls and bronies, oh my…

No offense but the community is a little bit more diverse than just players and devs. And people thinking I or anyone else needs to earn their respect needs their head examined. Saying a woman has to earn your respect for them to be treated with dignity or considered an equal is down-right archaic, for example. And to trust something is to take somethings value (real or percived) to the exclusion of everything else, which never sounds all that smart to me…

If something is of concern to players and they need to mention it more than once with no response or creative discussion, I can see why things may not be repeated, but excalated with emotion and the feeling of not being understood.

If you want a more respectful place to be you might want to add some constructive advice on how to achieve that, rather than just pointing fingers at the forum. And if Anet wanted to add some guidelines as far as etiquette goes, we might see an improvement.

Vanthian.9267:

Conncept.7638:

Nobody ever said you cannot or should not be able to say whatever you want, just that you’re a dirtbag if you use that right for nothing but disrespect, childish complaints, and written/verbal abuse. Which is completely true.

Really? That is what you come back with?

How is it childish for someone to have a legitimate complaint about a product he purchased with his money? Now, if he is doing nothing but insulting, see quote above, I see the problem, but if he is only asking and doing so out of concern for his investment there is nothing wrong.

You didn’t make an investment. No one did. We purchased a game on a disc. We got that game and it is still there to play. We knew what was in the box when we bought it. It says nowhere that you are making an investment, or that the price you pay includes your right to complain about game modifications, it doesn’t even promise that there will be modifications.

However, since then ANet are doing their best to make that game even better. Yes they make mistakes sometimes, they’re human, but they also fix those mistakes. Like in this patch. And yet all they get is complaints about what ‘we deserve’ and ’it’s so unfair’ -throws toys out of the pram-.

We deserve the game that we bought on that disc. That’s what we paid for. That means, we deserve none of the following, or their imperfections, or their improvements; no fractals, no ascended gear, no seasonal events, no bug fixes, no new areas, no new tasks, no new story, no improved dungeons, no improvements whatsoever in fact, and I have no doubt I have missed out a hell of a lot from that list. I for one am going to accept and be thankful for all that new content that they have given me free of charge, and if I find an issue in that content, sure, I will bring it to their attention, but not for all to see, insult and rage over.

Even though this is a fact, and despite the general disrespect and ingratitude that we see daily about the smallest things here in the forum, ANet are STILL doing everything they can to bring us quality content, and fix the issues that hold us back. No one has a right to complain. At all. It’s like someone handing out free food and complaining that you didn’t get the five course meal you deserve.

Praxis.4976

You didn’t make an investment. No one did.

I think you just showed how broad your understanding of the english language is.
To devote morally or psychologically, as to a purpose.

We bought a licence to their game that is still being developed, if they change the nature of the aspect of some areas of the game and people don’t like it, they changed what was bought, or advertised. It is their responability to listen in this regard or offer us our money back. We accept they can do what they want with their game, they should respect that we bought it for our sakes and not theirs.

TBH, I didn’t find your post useful becuase it isn’t really based in a reality we all understand…

If the industry wants to recognise Anets hard work, good for them. I payed some money for an experience, not so I could praise them and look past the flaws. If this game wants to be remembered fondly, it might want to scrutinise itself a bit more before handing us what they have done and asking us to accept it.

Darque Intent.1674:

Praxis.4976

You didn’t make an investment. No one did.

I think you just showed how broad your understanding of the english language is.
To devote morally or psychologically, as to a purpose.

Fine, if indeed you made a moral investment. But financially you bought what was written on that box. No more.

Darque Intent.1674:

It is their responability to listen in this regard or offer us our money back. We accept they can do what they want with their game, they should respect that we bought it for our sakes and not theirs.

Before you criticise my English, perhaps you should take a look at your own…

Darque Intent.1674:

If this game wants to be remembered fondly, it might want to scrutinise itself a bit more before handing us what they have done and asking us to accept it.

If you actually look at what they have done you would see that this whole patch is about ANet not settling for what they have already put forward. We are not being asked or forced to accept things as they are. They are trying to make changes for the better. The trouble is people are so selfish and single minded that they can’t comprehend anyone thinking differently to them, and instead of providing constructive criticism, see the forums as a place to vent all their pent up frustrations, and get so very angry.

If people could, instead of condemning them, recognise that ANet are not evil to the core, and are in fact trying to make fixes and improve their game for our benefit, this community and this forum would be a much better, respectful, and mature place.

Respect is not something you’re entitled to, you have to earn it.

Besides devs are professionals and are more than equipped to deal with people who go against the ToS. Players are also customers and they are expressing their displeasure with the product they have purchased. You as another customer, are not forced to read other people’s (disrespectful) comments, they are not addressed to you personally.

I have full faith in the devs and mods of these forums that they will do their job efficiently and accordingly, as they always have. I feel that OP is pretty offensive with this post telling me what to do.

Michael Sizemore.9603:

I’m kinda embarrassed being part of this community right now. The vocal minority is showing an obscene level of disrespect to the developers.

So you’re not perfectly happy, that is no excuse for this type of behavior. Please, show some respect and discuss your feelings in a civilized manner.

As to the patch, I’d like to thank Anet for their hard work. I know that the team wants the game to be the best it can be, and I appreciate their work and think it shows in game.

I look forward to further updates and tweaks as GW2 continues to grow.

Totally agreed.

I have to say though, Anet mods need to make a comback.
You guys went from banning anything remotely informal (that was a bit overkill) to letting this forum become a wasteland of spoiled childs crying (worse imo).
There is a lot of grey area between fascism and anarchy, I’m pretty sure you can find a balance.

There is the same lack of respect from the “fanbois” towards the “vocal minority crowd” as the “vocal minority crowd” has towards the devs.

There are many of us from the “vocal minority crowd” that do tell it as it is, in a civilized manner, only to have the “fanbois” lash out at us for pointing out issues with the patch/game.

In this patch there were some blatant mistakes done, things that are so out of place compared to things in the last patch that it makes no sense. Things that make no bit of sense. Sure there are good things too, but I would rather wait a month without most of the things in this patch and have the laurels system fully implemented and not staged.

If they just patched the fractal fix, the culling for WvW,the class tweaks and dungeon tweaks I’d be more than happy. They could have kept the new dailies out aswell as the laurels for now, saved it for the feb update and brought it in fully optimized.

Darque Intent.1674:

Praxis.4976

You didn’t make an investment. No one did.

I think you just showed how broad your understanding of the english language is.
To devote morally or psychologically, as to a purpose.

We bought a licence to their game that is still being developed, if they change the nature of the aspect of some areas of the game and people don’t like it, they changed what was bought, or advertised. It is their responability to listen in this regard or offer us our money back. We accept they can do what they want with their game, they should respect that we bought it for our sakes and not theirs.

TBH, I didn’t find your post useful becuase it isn’t really based in a reality we all understand…

If the industry wants to recognise Anets hard work, good for them. I payed some money for an experience, not so I could praise them and look past the flaws. If this game wants to be remembered fondly, it might want to scrutinise itself a bit more before handing us what they have done and asking us to accept it.

I love when people bash others for their low comprehension of English and make multiple spelling errors while doing it.

Eh it’s the internet,you’re always going to get people saying stuff they never would in real life.
That said,i do find it kinda embarrassing when a dev posts an answer to a question and someone else just attacks him for something unrelated.

Cosine.1786:

Frankly, the brown-nosing is even more obnoxious than the complaining.

Agreed.

I’ve seen a lot of valid complaints getting shoved aside by people in this forum because “lawl it’s optional” or “the ANet team is perfect and cannot make mistakes” or “the devs don’t have to communicate with their players” or even “the devs said one thing years ago and another thing entirely now, but that doesn’t mean they’re contradicting themselves”. I’m not even kidding, these are actual things that have been said at one point or another in this forum.

Respect should be given, absolutely. I agree. But the people who need to be given more respect right now are those “QQers” that all of you keep ignoring or attacking with personal slander and insults, calling them “crybabies” and telling them to “go back to WoW”.

The defenders of ANet are far, far worse than the detractors.

A commendable attempt at civilized discourse. Keep up the fight. The forums and WvW are similar in a way. The more areas you invade with this sentiment the higher the probability of a total take over. In this we are on the same server!

I think alot of people are mad, cus the gw1 players made anet big and in return they get a new game that’s soooo dumbed down,, it’s stupid. Have you read the skill descriptions… and where are all the skills… like whuuut??? all the gw strategy is gone,, they changed the way gear & dungeons work. They just sold us out. They care more about the money than they do about the players and the game.

critickitten.1498:

Cosine.1786:

Frankly, the brown-nosing is even more obnoxious than the complaining.

Agreed.

I’ve seen a lot of valid complaints getting shoved aside by people in this forum because “lawl it’s optional” or “the ANet team is perfect and cannot make mistakes” or “the devs don’t have to communicate with their players” or even “the devs said one thing years ago and another thing entirely now, but that doesn’t mean they’re contradicting themselves”. I’m not even kidding, these are actual things that have been said at one point or another in this forum.

Respect should be given, absolutely. I agree. But the people who need to be given more respect right now are those “QQers” that all of you keep ignoring or attacking with personal slander and insults, calling them “crybabies” and telling them to “go back to WoW”.

The defenders of ANet are far, far worse than the detractors.

The QQers and the slanderers of QQers are both being addressed by the OP. It’s simply a matter of using better words when expressing your opinion. For example:

A: This game sucks! I feel totally ripped off by Anet!! I spent hours in FotM just to watch them make these lame changes to dailies and offer lazy players the same rewards!

Or

B: I’m disappointed in Anet’s decision to make Fotm rewards available by other less difficult means while not compensating me for my time & effort spent.

Not the best example but I hope you get it. Anyway, IMO I can deal with the forums as they are because it is only words. It’s on you how they make you feel. However, I see no error in requesting what the OP has.

Peace,