Guild Wars 2

I’ve made some posts about the problems in the “’Zerker META”. I’ve seen others post about this as well.

Posts on this topic get quickly heated, and locked because of how volatile it is to even bring it up as though it is a problem. Or discuss negative experiences relating to it.

The only useful things to come out of these posts, is a general consensus to “respect the LFG”.

Meaning if you see a “Exp 80, ’Zerk link gear” description, only join it if that’s what your doing.

Ok, I dig.

But I’d like to say, this door swings both ways. If you see a “Non-speedrun, Not-skipping, Non-exploit” LFG… Would you guys mind giving it the same respect?

Now, “all welcome” LFG’s can expect no such respect… because they are, by definition, all inclusive, as the should be, simply to avoid confusion. So this is the description where all players have agreed to tolerate each other.

But there needs to be as much respect for the groups of us, who want to play out the content… or kill every mob… or not stand on the magical little spot where the boss can’t hit you… or play it the way the dev’s made it, without “gaming the game”

So far, I’ve made a serious attempt, to avoid LFG descriptions I don’t like…. or am not in the mood for, but over the past several nights I’ve had repeated occurrences of folks joining the group I started, (yes, with my own LFG) usually stating “not skipping, non-exploit, playing content”. Folks then join up, and play out the content till after the first boss or so, then they start using all the little tricks, and skipps, and stacks, and exploits they know. When I point out “err… hey the LFG said no skipping, or exploits, and I asked you guys about that before we started. You were all cool with it then… can we get back to that style please?” I get snarky replies, vote kicked, or otherwise ignored, and get pulled kicking and screaming speed run through the dungeon.

Now, you may say… “well then, leave group?” and ya know? Sometimes I do… but I don’t like doing the first half of a dungeon over and over only to be betrayed by the “easy way” again and again… so eventually I just finish the kitten dungeon, and get my marks, and my gold.

So I guess, what I’m respectfully asking of the community is…..

“Can we please, respect the LFG?”

I completely agree with everything you’ve said.

People don’t seem to bother reading the descriptions nowadays. I understand the meta mindset, and I do use it most of the time, but I understand and respect those who want to play the game’s content without using stacking tricks or LoSing, or exploiting, etc. I sometimes get irritated when joining a group that has “all inclusive” or “non speedrun” in it if we constantly wipe – which imo is fair enough because who wants to spend most of their time dead? That being said I don’t rage about it or force them to use something they don’t want to use. I deal with it – because it is their party, and not mine, and continue on.

I’m a fan of running these full zerkers 80s only speed clear groups, and I totally agree.

If I saw a group that was advertised as a casual group without skipping or exploiting (although there isn’t much exploiting these days compared to when I started 3 years ago) I would probably not join and if I did, I would respect that.

I guess it’s just the nature of online gaming, there will be kittens no matter what. Just like how you have people who join your parties and insist on skipping mobs or speed clearing through the dungeon, there are also people who join zerker speed run parties that have full PVT gear, and have never run the path before.

I’ve never actually seen a party advertised as a no skipping/exploiting party. I’ve seen some listed as casual, but none that specifically say no skipping/exploiting.

Also, how in the world do you clear Arah without skipping? Clearing out the mobs there takes FOREVER.

I sincerely hope that HoT changes the balance of encounters such that the speedrun community, and the “content playing” community has no choice but to come together. I hope they change the state of the game as to have encounters where pressure is high enough on the player to make full dps builds include survive-ability, and also to allow a full healing/support player into the makeup.

In that world, my Apothecary’s guardian can help speedclear a dungeon, without skilless stacking, and without standing in/on exploit spots. I want a good competent group to not have to care what gear your in, so long as you get the job done, know the content, and aren’t stuck playing it all night.

If it ever stops being a dichotomy, then we can label the kittens responsible as kittens, and not as one side of the dichotomy or the other. Clearly it’s a small minority on either side. They just pretend to be on one side more than the other, due to what’s currently popular.

The dichotomy is this:

Side “A”: Thinks it knows how it should be done and decides to enforce this on everyone…

Side “B”: Does not understand how it should be done (A’s way or otherwise) but feels entitled to being elite, and so ruin’s A’s fun.

The hilarious thing is that something like 80% of us are side “C” who has a preferred way of playing all our own, but that really dosen’t matter much so long as we clear the content we’re trying to clear and have fun doing it…. but because were all afraid of voting independent, cause they never win, we pick side A or B, and follow along, even when its wrong, cause its better than joining C without knowing for sure what we get out of it.

sigh

Better option:

Have arenanet fix the dungeons so they can’t be cheesed so easily, and scale the rewards so the dungeons are worth doing if you’re not haxploit speedrunning them. The fact that the stacking spots and skipping over 80% of most dungeons has been allowed to go on for so long is the problem, not the players looking for the most efficient way to clear them.

Anet’s mistake was balancing rewards around basically exploiting unintended quirks in dungeon design in stead of actually, you know, fixing the dungeons in the first place. They made legit runs so unrewarding they’re practically not worth doing in stead of just fixing the content and making full runs played as intended appropriately rewarding for the time and difficulty.

Honestly I think this situation is a perfect scenario for the vote kick system.

That’s exactly what would happen if someone joined a speedrun or zerker only group and didn’t conform to the group’s requirements and I see no reason it should be any different the other way around. One person racing ahead of the group, skipping enemies and leaving the rest of you to 4-man it or aggroing a boss while everyone else is still in the cutscene is just a disruptive as one person not skipping and forcing everyone else to wait or not participating in the fight because they’re still in the cut scene.

Whatever your chosen tactics are it’s still group content and that means the group needs to be on the same page and working together. The vote kicking system is there for those situations when that doesn’t happen.

Common problem in all walks of life. I find many groups that demand respect give absolutely none in return.
“This is just how we like to play, don’t Like it? Make your own group, just leave us alone and we’ll leave you alone.”
“lulz why yuo maek a non meta group? Meta olny way two paly, this nao meta run lawl”

I a meta elitist, but you are right on that. People should respect the LFG whatever the LFG said. It goes both ways.

The only points I would made is that maybe they did respected your LFG. ‘’not skipping, non-exploit, playing content’’.

First of all playing content mean zero kitten. That have zero value because everybody have their own definition about playing the game. About anything can be playing content.

Non-exploit is pretty narrow. Don’t use bugs, safe spots where the ennemy can’t reach your, but you can reach them, etc. But with your history of posting I fear that you think that stacking and LOSing are exploit. THEY ARE NOT. You may not like it, but they are legitimate tactics (inefficient tactics most of the time, but tactics).

I’m not saying, that’s what happen, but maybe. If I join a not skipping, non-exploit, playing content LFG, I’m gonna mostly play how I play usually, just not skipping mobs.

Meta is only meta because it optimizes the reward. The problem is today speed runs pay more than story runs or clear runs. People will never respect a “slow” LFG as long as they feel they are “losing” their time.

Mechanic solution: Anet recognize these different styles of play do exist, and reward them in a balanced way. How? by offering gold bonus rewards for:

- Record time achieved by the party. (For speeders and skippers)
- Number of clips entirely viewed by the party. (For lore fans)
- Number of enemies killed by the party. (For the combat crew)

Since the problem will persist if speed clearing keeps being the more time/reward efficient style, bonus for watching the story and clearing mobs should compensate the time “lost”.

NOW you have 3 different, clear and balanced ways of playing the party can agree on, that in the end will reward the same, and allow people to enjoy the story and kill things without going directly against the “meta”.

Even better, with this system speed, lore and kill crews could work together: a good group will try to balance all aspects to get the most rewards of the three areas. The more capable partyes will see all the videos and kill all the mobs in the shortest time possible, thus obtaining a triple bonus in the end.

I don’t understand why All Welcome should get less respect than anything else. All Welcome means that anyone can be expected to join, and as such you shouldn’t be whining or complaining about any particular person in the PuG since you came in knowing anyone might show up.

It’s still respect since this all comes down to individuals making the experience less enjoyable for the group. If you want to speed run, don’t join All Welcome, cause that group isn’t speed running.

Danikat.8537:

Honestly I think this situation is a perfect scenario for the vote kick system.

That’s exactly what would happen if someone joined a speedrun or zerker only group and didn’t conform to the group’s requirements and I see no reason it should be any different the other way around. One person racing ahead of the group, skipping enemies and leaving the rest of you to 4-man it or aggroing a boss while everyone else is still in the cutscene is just a disruptive as one person not skipping and forcing everyone else to wait or not participating in the fight because they’re still in the cut scene.

Whatever your chosen tactics are it’s still group content and that means the group needs to be on the same page and working together. The vote kicking system is there for those situations when that doesn’t happen.

This is a scenario I have in fractals all too often. Posting for experienced PS war/staff ele/AH guard and end up getting mesmers, thieves, rangers, etc. Or when we end up getting the class we do want, it’s someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing.

Had to pug 2 spots earlier today. Had 2 eles join, neither of which did a good job at even pretending to be experienced. Managed to get through to the end boss where we found out that one didn’t have any AR at all. Three of us who were in the same guild kicked him. You join a group that posts for experienced players you better be up to par.

No, I’m not against running new players through dungeons, but if I want a fast exp 80s only run then I want a fast exp 80s only run!

See now thats the kind of thing that would help.
I’ve always said instead of simply making a boss/champ unskippable make it worth killing, sadly they usually pick the easier option of making it unskippable (easier in terms of not having to balance loot anyway)

Danikat.8537:

Honestly I think this situation is a perfect scenario for the vote kick system.

That’s exactly what would happen if someone joined a speedrun or zerker only group and didn’t conform to the group’s requirements and I see no reason it should be any different the other way around. One person racing ahead of the group, skipping enemies and leaving the rest of you to 4-man it or aggroing a boss while everyone else is still in the cutscene is just a disruptive as one person not skipping and forcing everyone else to wait or not participating in the fight because they’re still in the cut scene.

Whatever your chosen tactics are it’s still group content and that means the group needs to be on the same page and working together. The vote kicking system is there for those situations when that doesn’t happen.

So… If you were advertising a zerk speedrun and four people joined seemingly onboard with the idea, go through the first boss… Then decided to start doing a kill all no skip casual style… And you objected, pointing out that’s not what the group was supposed to do… Then they vote kick you… You would be cool with that?

sarasvatri.6871:

Danikat.8537:

Honestly I think this situation is a perfect scenario for the vote kick system.

That’s exactly what would happen if someone joined a speedrun or zerker only group and didn’t conform to the group’s requirements and I see no reason it should be any different the other way around. One person racing ahead of the group, skipping enemies and leaving the rest of you to 4-man it or aggroing a boss while everyone else is still in the cutscene is just a disruptive as one person not skipping and forcing everyone else to wait or not participating in the fight because they’re still in the cut scene.

Whatever your chosen tactics are it’s still group content and that means the group needs to be on the same page and working together. The vote kicking system is there for those situations when that doesn’t happen.

So… If you were advertising a zerk speedrun and four people joined seemingly onboard with the idea, go through the first boss… Then decided to start doing a kill all no skip casual style… And you objected, pointing out that’s not what the group was supposed to do… Then they vote kick you… You would be cool with that?

If that was me I certainly wouldn’t be. If I posted the lfg and started the group it should be run the way I want it. If Bob posted the lfg and started the group then it should be run the way Bob wants it.

If that happened to me I would certainly have a few choice words to say to them, but as I would have been the minority, I would have left and started a new lfg.

This is one reason why I much prefer having 2 other friends/guildies with me minimum, so nothing like this happens, and the majority of the party knows how it’s meant to be run.

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

It works if you want it to – sometimes you have trouble but keep at it.

I agree with this concept : respect other people’s LFG requirements regardless of whether you are meta or non-meta.

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

I’ve been pugging multiple times a day since the LFG came out, in both zerker and nonzerker groups, and I can honestly say I don’t remember a single time any of this happened. Someone who has this happen “all the time” should bring me along so I can see what’s going on.

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

This is why I always include “relaxed run” in my listings in addition to " L80 experienced meta not required".

To most people “relaxed run” implies we aren’t rushing, if we wipe it’s no big deal, we can skip we can not skip, we can decide as we get to it, just go with the flow you know.

If someone starts complaining or is clearly being a jerk, then I’d say they aren’t relaxed. They aren’t relaxed at all. Usually a “chill dude, this is a relaxed run, we’re all here to have some fun” puts an end to it. They either leave the party then or get with the program. Of all my runs I’ve only had 1 person who wasn’t chill. He left the party. Most people, I find, just want to play the dungeon with competent people, while also not having to deal with militant types that are in a constant state of rushing because omg my gold/hr is being affected!

“L80 all welcome, new players encouraged” is also a good one, depending on if I have some new guildies with me and I need some more people and I want to grab some players that might be apprehensive about PUGs because of what they read in the forums.

OP- yes, I agree! I’ve wasted too much time on people who haven’t bothered to read the description or choose it even though they may be better suited to another group.

I’ve been running fractals with pugs for a few weeks now and this has fallen true for this kind of dungeon more than I’ve experienced with any other kind. I guess there are more things to go wrong overall.

-If I ask for an opener and I have 4 players in my party already, I need an opener who understands how to open (and roll for swamp, preferably).

-If I ask for “experienced only” I want somebody who knows what they’re doing and are comfortable with the mechanics. “Experienced” doesn’t mean meta-zerk… (I had a guy join who got a bit heated in the second fractal because he thought that exp = meta).

-If I’m advertising for a level 11+, I expect the player to have enough AR as to have just 1% ticks. We will find out… and we have had to kick people at Mai Trin because there is no way for them to survive upon entering the main room, after managing to scrape by on the previous fractals. It was a waste of their time and that sucks.

It’s just common sense people!

That being said, most groups I get are absolutely lovely and we have a lot of fun and do the fractals at a good pace.

I’ve seen a lot of people who admit to entering a meta zerk dungeon, pinging their zerk gear from their bags whilst running around in something absolutely not zerk. People seem to get a kick out of this and often argue “they didn’t notice so meta-zerk isn’t that great”. Y’know- most people do notice during the dungeon, but don’t want to waste their breathe or effort on something that happens so frequently. I’m not a fan of meta-zerk exclusivity either, but I respect the desires of the LFG creator. I feel like these kinds of people are just out to make a point in a really obscure and immature way, where it’s totally possible for them to have fun and not be invasive if they created their own party and LFG.

Mutual respect- that’s what we all need!

PopeUrban.2578:

Better option:

Have arenanet fix the dungeons so they can’t be cheesed so easily, and scale the rewards so the dungeons are worth doing if you’re not haxploit speedrunning them. The fact that the stacking spots and skipping over 80% of most dungeons has been allowed to go on for so long is the problem, not the players looking for the most efficient way to clear them.

Anet’s mistake was balancing rewards around basically exploiting unintended quirks in dungeon design in stead of actually, you know, fixing the dungeons in the first place. They made legit runs so unrewarding they’re practically not worth doing in stead of just fixing the content and making full runs played as intended appropriately rewarding for the time and difficulty.

This. Shouldn’t even be that hard, just make it so the dungeon events won’t advance unless the mobs on the way are dead, and/or increase mob drops so killing them is actually worthwhile.

How many of you are NA players? What time are you finding these groups?

I’m just about done with my dungeoneer achievement, and have completed probably over 500 dungeon runs. I have pugged every single one.

I have never once been kicked from a party and only 2-3 times have had people join who were clearly lying about their status when joining the party. I’ve done zerker runs, casual runs, meta runs, all welcome runs. 99.9% of them are exactly as advertised. I’ve never once had a run fail.

I just don’t understand where/when/how everyone in this thread seems to be finding all these bad players/groups…

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I just don’t understand where/when/how everyone in this thread seems to be finding all these bad players/groups…

It’s well known that if something has happened once, it happens “all the time”.

People always exaggerate to make a point.

I’m in your same boat, I’ve done hundreds of runs with PUGs from LFG and the worst I’ve had is one guy leaving the group after a couple of wipes when I reminded him this was a relaxed run and to chill out. Other than that, smooth sailing. Yet people on the forums seem to run into this regularly. Very unlikely.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

How many of you are NA players? What time are you finding these groups?

I’m just about done with my dungeoneer achievement, and have completed probably over 500 dungeon runs. I have pugged every single one.

I have never once been kicked from a party and only 2-3 times have had people join who were clearly lying about their status when joining the party. I’ve done zerker runs, casual runs, meta runs, all welcome runs. 99.9% of them are exactly as advertised. I’ve never once had a run fail.

I just don’t understand where/when/how everyone in this thread seems to be finding all these bad players/groups…

These same rumors have existed since the lfg tool was put in place. People have been inventing these imaginary scenarios ever since. Repeating stories they were told that were rumors to begin with. Does it happen? I’m sure it happens once in a while. Kind of like how we have the “play how you want” crowd who openly admit to harassing zerker groups and joining them in clerics gear to troll them. Sure these things happen and I am sure it happens the other way around too but it is a vast minority of the time. And if you run into them report them for lfg abuse and harassment and any other report that is relevant to the situation and move on.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

How many of you are NA players? What time are you finding these groups?

I’m just about done with my dungeoneer achievement, and have completed probably over 500 dungeon runs. I have pugged every single one.

I have never once been kicked from a party and only 2-3 times have had people join who were clearly lying about their status when joining the party. I’ve done zerker runs, casual runs, meta runs, all welcome runs. 99.9% of them are exactly as advertised. I’ve never once had a run fail.

I just don’t understand where/when/how everyone in this thread seems to be finding all these bad players/groups…

The examples I used in my post have all happened within the last week, including the meta-zerk one as I merged with another fractal group in LFG looking for the same level.

Admittedly, this has been a particularly rough patch- like I said, most runs are smooth and awesome.

I play on the EU servers at all times of day.

Also like I said- I definitely have more of these problems in fractals than I do in normal dungeon runs. The language barrier is an issue when asking people if they have enough AR (has happened twice in the last couple of weeks). I think it’s easier generally for folk to be more impatient with each other due to the language barrier- considering in fractals you come across more defined roles more often (e.g. who will carry the wisps/hammer, who will use the buttons), so trying to communicate who will do what is more difficult (this has once again happened a few times in the last week). The language barrier doesn’t bother me so long as the other player is making an effort to understand, just as I would for them.

Of course, lack of communication doesn’t matter so much if you have a player who knows their stuff. But I think a lot of inexperienced folk are heading to fractals to try and get to level 50 for the achievement in HoT.

I run meta-zerk and all welcome groups. I run optimal setup and random setups. I actually start both types depending on my mood at that point.

I’m in EU. I only do fractals, not dungeons. And run 3-5 tiers a day regularly. Times completely vary from 02:00 to 22:00. Most regular problem is not people not fitting the LFG discription although you get some of the wrong class joining that easy to get kicked in meta groups (even when you can tell a zerk is not in zerk you cant pinpoint WHICH of the 4 other people it is so hard to make a fuss) it actually people that join the wrong lvl range for their AR. Depending on my mood this could mean I vote kick them at the final boss as this is where you really notice it with a couple of exceptions, but it the people that lie about their AR that kitten me off. Though sometimes revenge is sweet

Had someone join a lvl 50, carried them to the final boss which was Jade Maw. They insta-died on entering the fight area. Left them dead and completed the boss.
The release and run back to get the chest, of course they once again instantly die. They start crying for a rezz. I just stood there doing nothing. They insisted the whole fractal they had 85AR, even when they instantly were dying they kept saying it. They got really annoyed that I refused to rezz them even after I stated that I do not help people that lie to me

Now I think free accounts are going to make this problem worse for quite some time. But I think I make an AR check at start of any dungeon I do and if people do not answer just kick them out. Least that way they need to at least know the AR necessary which is a start to knowing mechanics of fractals and if find out they lied just remove them from the boss and be done with it.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

If I saw a group that was advertised as a casual group without skipping or exploiting (although there isn’t much exploiting these days compared to when I started 3 years ago) I would probably not join and if I did, I would respect that.

Honest question there: Why casual is assimilated with not speed running, etc…
By that I mean take experienced players that do fractal 50 all day long & from time to time they decide to do a YOLO dungeon/fractal just for fun.
How is that casual in any form ?

papry.8096:

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

If I saw a group that was advertised as a casual group without skipping or exploiting (although there isn’t much exploiting these days compared to when I started 3 years ago) I would probably not join and if I did, I would respect that.

Honest question there: Why casual is assimilated with not speed running, etc…
By that I mean take experienced players that do fractal 50 all day long & from time to time they decide to do a YOLO dungeon/fractal just for fun.
How is that casual in any form ?

Casual here meaning relaxed, not strict. Not the hardcore vs casual version. English is at it again with one word having multiple meanings.

The problem is, if you ask people to leave quietly, they cuss you out half the time.

So you kick and then they get mad and whisper/trash talk.

I put “experienced” and end up with people coming in saying “first timer”

It’s a losing battle/crapshoot

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No, its not a problem because it is only a problem for the very small minority.

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No one is saying that it doesn’t happen.

Just that it doesn’t happen as often as some people like to make it out to be.

dom.2748:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No, its not a problem because it is only a problem for the very small minority.

So was marriage inequality. =P

Seera.5916:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No one is saying that it doesn’t happen.

Just that it doesn’t happen as often as some people like to make it out to be.

It was literally called “inventing problems” in the post I quoted =P

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No, its not a problem because it is only a problem for the very small minority.

So was marriage inequality. =P

Seera.5916:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No one is saying that it doesn’t happen.

Just that it doesn’t happen as often as some people like to make it out to be.

It was literally called “inventing problems” in the post I quoted =P

I’ll save you the trouble of quoting me again. You’re inventing problems. It is a non-issue that less than 1% of the population has ever dealt with. If you’re actually having this issue all the time then the common denominator is you.

dom.2748:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No, its not a problem because it is only a problem for the very small minority.

So was marriage inequality. =P

Seera.5916:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No one is saying that it doesn’t happen.

Just that it doesn’t happen as often as some people like to make it out to be.

It was literally called “inventing problems” in the post I quoted =P

I’ll save you the trouble of quoting me again. You’re inventing problems. It is a non-issue that less than 1% of the population has ever dealt with. If you’re actually having this issue all the time then the common denominator is you.

Ok, I’m trying, with the utmost respect, to broaden your view point a bit.

If it is a problem for me, and for the OP, and for everyone else who posts here saying it’s a problem, how is saying that we’re making it up, that our experiences don’t matter, that it isn’t really a problem because it hasn’t affected the (entirely subjective) sample size of players who have specifically told you they don’t have this problem, in ANY WAY a helpful, insightful, or empathic comment?

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No, its not a problem because it is only a problem for the very small minority.

So was marriage inequality. =P

Seera.5916:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No one is saying that it doesn’t happen.

Just that it doesn’t happen as often as some people like to make it out to be.

It was literally called “inventing problems” in the post I quoted =P

And they weren’t saying that it never happens in that post.

They said that people make stuff up to invent problems (aka the problem of it happening to everyone everytime they make an LFG, it’s not a problem as it doesn’t happen to everyone everytime they make an LFG).

dom.2748:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No, its not a problem because it is only a problem for the very small minority.

So was marriage inequality. =P

Seera.5916:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No one is saying that it doesn’t happen.

Just that it doesn’t happen as often as some people like to make it out to be.

It was literally called “inventing problems” in the post I quoted =P

I’ll save you the trouble of quoting me again. You’re inventing problems. It is a non-issue that less than 1% of the population has ever dealt with. If you’re actually having this issue all the time then the common denominator is you.

I would really like to see your information backing up the claim of the supposed “1%”. Just because you don’t have an issue with it doesn’t mean other people aren’t having issues with it.

Seera.5916:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No, its not a problem because it is only a problem for the very small minority.

So was marriage inequality. =P

Seera.5916:

Rashagar.8349:

dom.2748:

Serophous.9085:

hildegain.2106:

Mr Glass. I’ve been there. A lot. My guild and I used to post LFGs looking for 1-2 more people and we’d always say that we want a complete, non exploitative run and that we’re not zerker meta players.

9/10 times we get the zerkers join our party, demand that we skip, threaten to report us and try to kick people from the group we started.

Yeah… This is pretty much what the “meta mentality” is.

9/10 I make a LFG inviting all and I never have threats like that and we go at a normal steady pace.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I have the same problems as the OP. It is why I say that the whole “just make your own LFG” argument is a lie. It just plain doesn’t work.

Works for me

It works for everyone. This is just more people trying to make a problem out of a non-problem. It is a big issue on this game. People make stuff up to invent a problem to “fix”.

“It’s not a problem for me or this other person I was talking to therefore it can’t be a problem for anyone”? Really?

@OP, you have my absolute support.

No one is saying that it doesn’t happen.

Just that it doesn’t happen as often as some people like to make it out to be.

It was literally called “inventing problems” in the post I quoted =P

And they weren’t saying that it never happens in that post.

They said that people make stuff up to invent problems (aka the problem of it happening to everyone everytime they make an LFG, it’s not a problem as it doesn’t happen to everyone everytime they make an LFG).

So the problem is with the existence and use of hyperbole? I have some bad news for them =P

Its obviously not problem, since these kind of topics appear frequently and end each time with heated discussion. Thus, there is no trouble since people who claim that there is a problem doesnt have said problem because theyre obviously lying, and its not word versus word kind of argument, since one side is obviously right..eh.

No, lfg doesnt always work, for Meta acolytes and non meta. No, its not all the time, but enough to make people tired/angry. Yup, people joining lfg should read lfg description, doesnt matter, Meta/non meta.

My thoughts on the matter.

The Tee Why.4807:

The problem is, if you ask people to leave quietly, they cuss you out half the time.

So you kick and then they get mad and whisper/trash talk.

I put “experienced” and end up with people coming in saying “first timer”

It’s a losing battle/crapshoot

I get annoyed by that. I had that happen yesterday morning, i wanted to do a quick dungeon run AC P1, so i put AC P1 Experienced. I get two 80s and a level 65(Which was fine, he asked, and he knew what he was doing), then a level 40 joined, i was fine till we got to Kholer, where we wiped.

He fell off the top, had to type in “Uhhh….how do i get back up?”.

I asked him if it was his first time in the dungeon, his response. “Sorta, ya.”

Mine? “Why did you join, i put Experienced.”

He left silently, but my group decided to turn me into the bad guy because i was mean to him apparently by asking a question? READ THE LFG TOOL and it wouldnt have happened in the first place.

ask ppl to link their gear is a genius move, let’s see what anet will do about it

Lusteregris.2697:

Its obviously not problem, since these kind of topics appear frequently and end each time with heated discussion. Thus, there is no trouble since people who claim that there is a problem doesnt have said problem because theyre obviously lying, and its not word versus word kind of argument, since one side is obviously right..eh.

No, lfg doesnt always work, for Meta acolytes and non meta. No, its not all the time, but enough to make people tired/angry. Yup, people joining lfg should read lfg description, doesnt matter, Meta/non meta.

My thoughts on the matter.

The people who say it doesn’t happen because it doesn’t happen to them are just as bad as those who claim it happens to everyone all the time.

The extremes of both side exaggerate their claims and hurt their side’s argument. And everyone always focuses on the extremes of the other side when discussing the issue and the real problem gets buried.

The fixable problem is that there is no one defined code for the LFG. ANet can’t fix rudeness.

I’m experienced in CoE. But I’m not that experienced and I end up dead more often than more experienced players. So when a group says experienced for CoE, I do qualify in the literal sense, but maybe not to the degree the poster said.

But if more people respected the LFG, things would in general improve.

People just don’t read LFG thoroughly enough. Most people don’t bother putting up the IP for Tequatl taxis. I do, to avoid people on the same map taking up space. But even after doing that, there’ll always be lazy people from the same map joining anyway.

Of course, the game could be designed better, such as displaying your current IP on the LFG and displaying the IP of the poster on LFG. But in the absence of such Quality of Life features, we can all make the environment less aggravating by doing the basic legwork.

“/ip” isn’t that hard to type.

Corran.4957:

I run meta-zerk and all welcome groups. I run optimal setup and random setups. I actually start both types depending on my mood at that point.

I’m in EU. I only do fractals, not dungeons. And run 3-5 tiers a day regularly. Times completely vary from 02:00 to 22:00. Most regular problem is not people not fitting the LFG discription although you get some of the wrong class joining that easy to get kicked in meta groups (even when you can tell a zerk is not in zerk you cant pinpoint WHICH of the 4 other people it is so hard to make a fuss) it actually people that join the wrong lvl range for their AR. Depending on my mood this could mean I vote kick them at the final boss as this is where you really notice it with a couple of exceptions, but it the people that lie about their AR that kitten me off. Though sometimes revenge is sweet

Had someone join a lvl 50, carried them to the final boss which was Jade Maw. They insta-died on entering the fight area. Left them dead and completed the boss.
The release and run back to get the chest, of course they once again instantly die. They start crying for a rezz. I just stood there doing nothing. They insisted the whole fractal they had 85AR, even when they instantly were dying they kept saying it. They got really annoyed that I refused to rezz them even after I stated that I do not help people that lie to me

Now I think free accounts are going to make this problem worse for quite some time. But I think I make an AR check at start of any dungeon I do and if people do not answer just kick them out. Least that way they need to at least know the AR necessary which is a start to knowing mechanics of fractals and if find out they lied just remove them from the boss and be done with it.

I mean unless you asked them about their AR and they lied or you put a minimum AR in the LFG description, I don’t really feel you should be kicking someone for their AR.

I have 30 AR, I have successfully completed several fractals in the 3x range. The ONLY time it’s an issue is at Mai Trin. When going into the area I get one shot, I’ll need to experiment a bit with mistform or earth focus 5, but yea, I get one shot. When that happened my team ressed me, we went and beat the boss without me going down once.

Almost all agony attacks can be dodged. Even Jade Maw’s if you know the timing of it.

Sylum.1806:

People just don’t read LFG thoroughly enough. Most people don’t bother putting up the IP for Tequatl taxis. I do, to avoid people on the same map taking up space. But even after doing that, there’ll always be lazy people from the same map joining anyway.

Of course, the game could be designed better, such as displaying your current IP on the LFG and displaying the IP of the poster on LFG. But in the absence of such Quality of Life features, we can all make the environment less aggravating by doing the basic legwork.

“/ip” isn’t that hard to type.

Isn’t hard to type no, but how many players actually know that that command is actually in the game and what it tells exactly?

Honestly, I think this post is completely pointless.

There’s nothing wrong with the message itself, but the problem is the audience it reaches, because I think most people who would read this topic on the General Discussions forum already respect the LFG tool (with the exception of the people who advocate pinging fake zerger gear to troll speed run groups). You’re basically preaching to the choir.

Maybe you should post in the Dungeon/Fractals forum instead.

People don’t reading the LFG is fairly regular. I just don’t make a big deal out of it. I work on construction plans all day, if I start to freak out every time someone don’t follow my instructions or don’t read the plan I’ll be in a burn out by the end of the week. That just human nature, you can either laugh and shake it off when it happen or make a big deal out of it, which will change nothing.

forum bug again