Guild Wars 2

Given that the GM timing was changed previously to accommodate HOT developments.
Given that now the final wing of raid is released

Should we not revert the GM timing back to how it was?

I’m afraid I am clueless this morning; what is GM timing?

It’s the weekly game reset for guild missions, etc?

Why bother going back now? Everyone has settled into the new reset time. If it was bothering people I’m sure they would be posting on the forum about it.

I think that person means Guild Missions. And want the complains back to the forums.
Why you want to change it again?

Ahh..silly me! I could only come up with Game Mode or Grand Master. Lol.

Thanks for the clarification.

I think the timing is fine as it is, but whatever the playerbase prefers.

What would be the point of changing the reset time again?

SkyShroud.2865:

Given that the GM timing was changed previously to accommodate HOT developments.

The timing of reset for guild missions was changed for a variety of reasons.

SkyShroud.2865:

Given that now the final wing of raid is released…
Should we not revert the GM timing back to how it was?

No.

Status quo should only change when there’s a substantive reason to do so. “Returning things to way they were” isn’t a benefit commensurate with the costs (even if it’s just a ‘text change’, it still has to be tested and explained and the community has to change their current habits).

Put another way, don’t worry about why it used to be that way — instead, explain why you think it’s better for the game to change the timing now.

Monday mornings (in the EU anyway) are not the perfect time to start a fresh week, no?

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

SkyShroud.2865:

Given that the GM timing was changed previously to accommodate HOT developments.

The timing of reset for guild missions was changed for a variety of reasons.

SkyShroud.2865:

Given that now the final wing of raid is released…
Should we not revert the GM timing back to how it was?

No.

Status quo should only change when there’s a substantive reason to do so. “Returning things to way they were” isn’t a benefit commensurate with the costs (even if it’s just a ‘text change’, it still has to be tested and explained and the community has to change their current habits).

Put another way, don’t worry about why it used to be that way — instead, explain why you think it’s better for the game to change the timing now.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guild-Mission-Reset-Time-Changed/first

It was mentioned there though I am unsure what it means by hosting raid but the development part is pretty clear.

As for why, it is simple. Previously, Reset timing is in the middle of the weekend. Previously, there were a lot of complain about the changes, simply because people will lose out in the changes.

There are people who in real life, that work on the whole week and rest the entire next week. For such individuals, technically, they will lose one week worth of guild missions. Likewise, there are people who plays in weekend and might for some reason not able to play on one weekend due to works or school, these people too will end up losing a week worth.

By putting the reset back inbetween the weekend, these people will not lose out because if they do miss out on one weekend, they still have the next weekend to get it.

Where the reset is doesn’t matter. If you can only do it on X day, you’ll still be able to do it on X day regardless of when the reset is set.

If I always do GM’s 30 minutes after daily reset on Monday’s, changing the reset from Monday to Saturday will have zero impact. The only impact a change could have is during the initial week.

Ayrilana.1396:

Where the reset is doesn’t matter. If you can only do it on X day, you’ll still be able to do it on X day regardless of when the reset is set.

If I always do GM’s 30 minutes after daily reset on Monday’s, changing the reset from Monday to Saturday will have zero impact. The only impact a change could have is during the initial week.

You dont get it do you?

Lets give you a clearly example

M T W T F S S

Currently reset is on 08:30 UTC Monday, so they have Monday to the next monday to do it

Now, if you a person that can only play on weekend which is Saturday and Sunday in this reset timing. If that person for some reason cannot play on that weekend, he will lose that week’s guild missions rewards.

But if you put the reset on the old reset timing which is 00:00 UTC Sunday, that person even if he can’t play that week, he still have until the saturday of next week to do it.

So, it has impact to specific individuals who have serious time constraints.

SkyShroud.2865:

Ayrilana.1396:

Where the reset is doesn’t matter. If you can only do it on X day, you’ll still be able to do it on X day regardless of when the reset is set.

If I always do GM’s 30 minutes after daily reset on Monday’s, changing the reset from Monday to Saturday will have zero impact. The only impact a change could have is during the initial week.

You dont get it do you?

Lets give you a clearly example

M T W T F S S

Currently reset is on 08:30 UTC Monday, so they have Monday to the next monday to do it

Now, if you a person that can only play on weekend which is Saturday and Sunday in this reset timing. If that person for some reason cannot play on that weekend, he will lose that week’s guild missions rewards.

But if you put the reset on the old reset timing which is 00:00 UTC Sunday, that person even if he can’t play that week, he still have until the saturday of next week to do it.

So, it has impact to specific individuals who have serious time constraints.

There are also people with serious time constraints for which the current reset time works better than the old one. No reset time will work perfectly for everyone, and ANet has apparently found one that works well enough for enough of its playerbase that it isn’t a problem for them anymore

SkyShroud.2865:

Ayrilana.1396:

Where the reset is doesn’t matter. If you can only do it on X day, you’ll still be able to do it on X day regardless of when the reset is set.

If I always do GM’s 30 minutes after daily reset on Monday’s, changing the reset from Monday to Saturday will have zero impact. The only impact a change could have is during the initial week.

You dont get it do you?

Lets give you a clearly example

M T W T F S S

Currently reset is on 08:30 UTC Monday, so they have Monday to the next monday to do it

Now, if you a person that can only play on weekend which is Saturday and Sunday in this reset timing. If that person for some reason cannot play on that weekend, he will lose that week’s guild missions rewards.

But if you put the reset on the old reset timing which is 00:00 UTC Sunday, that person even if he can’t play that week, he still have until the saturday of next week to do it.

So, it has impact to specific individuals who have serious time constraints.

Reset time will always be horrible for some portion of the player base. Reset times should not be changed just because they are bad for a portion of the player base.

And the person’s guild has to do guild missions on both Saturday and Sunday for your scenario to be valid.

The person’s guild may do missions on Saturdays and Thursdays (some players can’t play on the weekend).

The number of players that would be benefited from this change that currently have a hard time fitting guild missions in is small.

Guilds would again have to rearrange their schedule if reset times changed. Which affects all guild members, not just the ones with time issues.

It is simple, we can always do a game wide poll to determine if reset timing should be revert back the old.

For me simple, I am fighting for the people who have constraint due to their hell working shift.

Honestly speaking, I don’t see how the current reset timing is benefiting anyone currently.

SkyShroud.2865:

Ayrilana.1396:

Where the reset is doesn’t matter. If you can only do it on X day, you’ll still be able to do it on X day regardless of when the reset is set.

If I always do GM’s 30 minutes after daily reset on Monday’s, changing the reset from Monday to Saturday will have zero impact. The only impact a change could have is during the initial week.

You dont get it do you?

Lets give you a clearly example

M T W T F S S

Currently reset is on 08:30 UTC Monday, so they have Monday to the next monday to do it

Now, if you a person that can only play on weekend which is Saturday and Sunday in this reset timing. If that person for some reason cannot play on that weekend, he will lose that week’s guild missions rewards.

But if you put the reset on the old reset timing which is 00:00 UTC Sunday, that person even if he can’t play that week, he still have until the saturday of next week to do it.

So, it has impact to specific individuals who have serious time constraints.

Then they do it during the week…

If they couldn’t play during the weekend, whether or not the reset was during the weekend wouldn’t matter.

I can only play during the week. If for some reason that I cannot play during the week under your proposed change, I miss out on guild missions.

SkyShroud.2865:

It is simple, we can always do a game wide poll to determine if reset timing should be revert back the old.

For me simple, I am fighting for the people who have constraint due to their hell working shift.

Honestly speaking, I don’t see how the current reset timing is benefiting anyone currently.

Some people work nights. Daily reset really hurts them. Should it be adjust to the mornings to cater to them?

Because as soon as it get changed or the announcement comes, there will be people saying “Don’t like, doesn’t work for me. Don’t change it, it’s perfect for my schedule as it is now.”

What puts your group of people ahead of those in who gets the final say in when resets occur?

The reason of “the time is inconvenient or problematic for a group of people” is not a good reason to change the timing of anything. Because there will always be a group of people the time is inconvenient for or problematic for.

Seera.5916:

SkyShroud.2865:

It is simple, we can always do a game wide poll to determine if reset timing should be revert back the old.

For me simple, I am fighting for the people who have constraint due to their hell working shift.

Honestly speaking, I don’t see how the current reset timing is benefiting anyone currently.

Some people work nights. Daily reset really hurts them. Should it be adjust to the mornings to cater to them?

Because as soon as it get changed or the announcement comes, there will be people saying “Don’t like, doesn’t work for me. Don’t change it, it’s perfect for my schedule as it is now.”

What puts your group of people ahead of those in who gets the final say in when resets occur?

The reason of “the time is inconvenient or problematic for a group of people” is not a good reason to change the timing of anything. Because there will always be a group of people the time is inconvenient for or problematic for.

everyone does different things for a living, I’m a NEET who plays whenever, tons of people who play games are like that too, so there’s no good reason to switch it back when it’s already been changed and people are adjusted.

so as this post says, there’s no GOOD reason to switch it just because a certain group of people are inconvenienced unless that group is the majority of people who play.

Ayrilana.1396:

SkyShroud.2865:

Ayrilana.1396:

Where the reset is doesn’t matter. If you can only do it on X day, you’ll still be able to do it on X day regardless of when the reset is set.

If I always do GM’s 30 minutes after daily reset on Monday’s, changing the reset from Monday to Saturday will have zero impact. The only impact a change could have is during the initial week.

You dont get it do you?

Lets give you a clearly example

M T W T F S S

Currently reset is on 08:30 UTC Monday, so they have Monday to the next monday to do it

Now, if you a person that can only play on weekend which is Saturday and Sunday in this reset timing. If that person for some reason cannot play on that weekend, he will lose that week’s guild missions rewards.

But if you put the reset on the old reset timing which is 00:00 UTC Sunday, that person even if he can’t play that week, he still have until the saturday of next week to do it.

So, it has impact to specific individuals who have serious time constraints.

Then they do it during the week…

If they couldn’t play during the weekend, whether or not the reset was during the weekend wouldn’t matter.

I can only play during the week. If for some reason that I cannot play during the week under your proposed change, I miss out on guild missions.

Please read carefully again, maybe I should break it down for you.
Individual A – Weekend

• Can only play on weekends aka saturday and sunday
• For some circumstance like additional work, school schedules or social life, they might no be able to play on certain weekends which means they will not be online for the whole week.

Individual B – Week shift

• One week on, one week off. In other words, can play for the entire week and not play the entire week next and the cycle will repeat that way.

This isn’t a hypothetical example. I ask you, do you really only play on the weekdays?

Regardless, let you just you really only play on the weekdays. What is the probability that “Individual C – Weekday” will not be online for 5 days straight compare to “Individual A – Weekend” not online for 2 days straight.

Seera.5916:

SkyShroud.2865:

It is simple, we can always do a game wide poll to determine if reset timing should be revert back the old.

For me simple, I am fighting for the people who have constraint due to their hell working shift.

Honestly speaking, I don’t see how the current reset timing is benefiting anyone currently.

Some people work nights. Daily reset really hurts them. Should it be adjust to the mornings to cater to them?

Because as soon as it get changed or the announcement comes, there will be people saying “Don’t like, doesn’t work for me. Don’t change it, it’s perfect for my schedule as it is now.”

What puts your group of people ahead of those in who gets the final say in when resets occur?

The reason of “the time is inconvenient or problematic for a group of people” is not a good reason to change the timing of anything. Because there will always be a group of people the time is inconvenient for or problematic for.

Adjust to cater to them? No. You seems to have a whole idea completely wrong. You even once posted in that announcement thread and you should have seen the concerns that were raised.

The old reset timing is already catered to them. The time change is to cater for the HOT development, sacrificing the group of minorities. Now that the HOT development is over with the final release of wing 3, the reset timing should be reverted to cater the minority like how it was.

you know you can do guild missions whenever right ?

Like whenever you want….

SkyShroud.2865:

Seera.5916:

SkyShroud.2865:

It is simple, we can always do a game wide poll to determine if reset timing should be revert back the old.

For me simple, I am fighting for the people who have constraint due to their hell working shift.

Honestly speaking, I don’t see how the current reset timing is benefiting anyone currently.

Some people work nights. Daily reset really hurts them. Should it be adjust to the mornings to cater to them?

Because as soon as it get changed or the announcement comes, there will be people saying “Don’t like, doesn’t work for me. Don’t change it, it’s perfect for my schedule as it is now.”

What puts your group of people ahead of those in who gets the final say in when resets occur?

The reason of “the time is inconvenient or problematic for a group of people” is not a good reason to change the timing of anything. Because there will always be a group of people the time is inconvenient for or problematic for.

Adjust to cater to them? No. You seems to have a whole idea completely wrong. You even once posted in that announcement thread and you should have seen the concerns that were raised.

The old reset timing is already catered to them. The time change is to cater for the HOT development, sacrificing the group of minorities. Now that the HOT development is over with the final release of wing 3, the reset timing should be reverted to cater the minority like how it was.

So you believe those affected by the current reset time are a minority and you still want ANet to change the game to cater to them?

My daily reset question was to show you how ridiculous it is to change the reset times based on a group of players availability. Seeing as how no one in your supposed group of players hurt by the reset time have come forward, it seems to me the concerns raised prior to Tue change were not as kittenome thought it would be.

TexZero.7910:

you know you can do guild missions whenever right ?

Like whenever you want….

Try doing a guild challenge solo then?

Seera.5916:

SkyShroud.2865:

Seera.5916:

SkyShroud.2865:

It is simple, we can always do a game wide poll to determine if reset timing should be revert back the old.

For me simple, I am fighting for the people who have constraint due to their hell working shift.

Honestly speaking, I don’t see how the current reset timing is benefiting anyone currently.

Some people work nights. Daily reset really hurts them. Should it be adjust to the mornings to cater to them?

Because as soon as it get changed or the announcement comes, there will be people saying “Don’t like, doesn’t work for me. Don’t change it, it’s perfect for my schedule as it is now.”

What puts your group of people ahead of those in who gets the final say in when resets occur?

The reason of “the time is inconvenient or problematic for a group of people” is not a good reason to change the timing of anything. Because there will always be a group of people the time is inconvenient for or problematic for.

Adjust to cater to them? No. You seems to have a whole idea completely wrong. You even once posted in that announcement thread and you should have seen the concerns that were raised.

The old reset timing is already catered to them. The time change is to cater for the HOT development, sacrificing the group of minorities. Now that the HOT development is over with the final release of wing 3, the reset timing should be reverted to cater the minority like how it was.

So you believe those affected by the current reset time are a minority and you still want ANet to change the game to cater to them?

My daily reset question was to show you how ridiculous it is to change the reset times based on a group of players availability. Seeing as how no one in your supposed group of players hurt by the reset time have come forward, it seems to me the concerns raised prior to Tue change were not as kittenome thought it would be.

To clarify, I use the word minority to reflect your point of view base on your previous posts. To me, it doesn’t matter it is the minority or not the miniority, the idea is to make it more convenience to more people. Are you saying that changing the timing now, it is gonna affect a lot more people? If not, I don’t really see why are you so against it other then being “troublesome”.

Come forward to say, of course, how many people actually visited the forums? You think 90% of the gw2 players visit forums? The concerns are already raised in the past, it is recorded in black and white.

SkyShroud.2865:

TexZero.7910:

you know you can do guild missions whenever right ?

Like whenever you want….

Try doing a guild challenge solo then?

You can be in up to five guilds. If your current guild can’t wait for the weekend and for you to join them on Guild Missions, why not try finding another guild? One of the larger ones, for example, where you’re more likely to land with weekend players?

So raid reset should stay the same and guild mission reset changes? No thanks, easier to keep both on the same reset schedule so there’s less confusion. Your heart’s in the right place but I’ve not heard any complaints in game about the current mission reset and the lack of people backing you up in this thread after 22 hours doesn’t help your case. If people have an issue with their schedules not working with their guild’s scheduled missions, it’s up to them to discuss that with their guild to see if they can be held at a time suitable for them.

You bring up the thread before this change happened: people had concerns and then adjusted. Most of the complaints I saw in that thread were about the missions of the week it was changed, not that the new reset time would spoil guild missions for them in the long term. Yes, a couple of people said they had issues but I’ve not seen them post in this thread or a great outcry over guild mission reset being an issue. My guess is people who were affected have adjusted.

Also, I wouldn’t say that HoT development was over seeing as we’ve not had LS3 drop yet, unless you know something I don’t?

penelopehannibal.8947:

You can be in up to five guilds. If your current guild can’t wait for the weekend and for you to join them on Guild Missions, why not try finding another guild? One of the larger ones, for example, where you’re more likely to land with weekend players?

OP has a rep req guild so doesn’t want their players to be able to to do that.

penelopehannibal.8947:

SkyShroud.2865:

TexZero.7910:

you know you can do guild missions whenever right ?

Like whenever you want….

Try doing a guild challenge solo then?

You can be in up to five guilds. If your current guild can’t wait for the weekend and for you to join them on Guild Missions, why not try finding another guild? One of the larger ones, for example, where you’re more likely to land with weekend players?

That isn’t the concern of the topic. The concern is players who have limited playing days. His point is actually off-topic.

Bellatrixa.3546:

penelopehannibal.8947:

You can be in up to five guilds. If your current guild can’t wait for the weekend and for you to join them on Guild Missions, why not try finding another guild? One of the larger ones, for example, where you’re more likely to land with weekend players?

OP has a rep req guild so doesn’t want their players to be able to to do that.

To me it sounds more like a guild issue than a Guild Wars 2 issue to me then.

Bellatrixa.3546:

So raid reset should stay the same and guild mission reset changes? No thanks, easier to keep both on the same reset schedule so there’s less confusion. Your heart’s in the right place but I’ve not heard any complaints in game about the current mission reset and the lack of people backing you up in this thread after 22 hours doesn’t help your case. If people have an issue with their schedules not working with their guild’s scheduled missions, it’s up to them to discuss that with their guild to see if they can be held at a time suitable for them.

You bring up the thread before this change happened: people had concerns and then adjusted. Most of the complaints I saw in that thread were about the missions of the week it was changed, not that the new reset time would spoil guild missions for them in the long term. Yes, a couple of people said they had issues but I’ve not seen them post in this thread or a great outcry over guild mission reset being an issue. My guess is people who were affected have adjusted.

Also, I wouldn’t say that HoT development was over seeing as we’ve not had LS3 drop yet, unless you know something I don’t?

Raid reset one hour earlier than GM, it isn’t the same, just the same day.

It is true, the concerns isn’t big and the people who raised the concerns were actually leaders or officers who run guild missions, trying to look out for their members. It was a genuine concern for the well-being of the players.

I don’t think LS3 is part of HOT development, LS3 is a separate project, isn’kitten

Bellatrixa.3546:

penelopehannibal.8947:

You can be in up to five guilds. If your current guild can’t wait for the weekend and for you to join them on Guild Missions, why not try finding another guild? One of the larger ones, for example, where you’re more likely to land with weekend players?

OP has a rep req guild so doesn’t want their players to be able to to do that.

You have jumped into conclusion, I do not have members who are concerned about that. I’m just simply recalled about it when I saw the raid release. Furthermore, that is baseless accusation, we are reasonable and flexible but we have limit to prevent individuals taking advantage of the guild.

SkyShroud.2865:

Ayrilana.1396:

SkyShroud.2865:

Ayrilana.1396:

Where the reset is doesn’t matter. If you can only do it on X day, you’ll still be able to do it on X day regardless of when the reset is set.

If I always do GM’s 30 minutes after daily reset on Monday’s, changing the reset from Monday to Saturday will have zero impact. The only impact a change could have is during the initial week.

You dont get it do you?

Lets give you a clearly example

M T W T F S S

Currently reset is on 08:30 UTC Monday, so they have Monday to the next monday to do it

Now, if you a person that can only play on weekend which is Saturday and Sunday in this reset timing. If that person for some reason cannot play on that weekend, he will lose that week’s guild missions rewards.

But if you put the reset on the old reset timing which is 00:00 UTC Sunday, that person even if he can’t play that week, he still have until the saturday of next week to do it.

So, it has impact to specific individuals who have serious time constraints.

Then they do it during the week…

If they couldn’t play during the weekend, whether or not the reset was during the weekend wouldn’t matter.

I can only play during the week. If for some reason that I cannot play during the week under your proposed change, I miss out on guild missions.

Please read carefully again, maybe I should break it down for you.
Individual A – Weekend

• Can only play on weekends aka saturday and sunday
• For some circumstance like additional work, school schedules or social life, they might no be able to play on certain weekends which means they will not be online for the whole week.

Individual B – Week shift

• One week on, one week off. In other words, can play for the entire week and not play the entire week next and the cycle will repeat that way.

This isn’t a hypothetical example. I ask you, do you really only play on the weekdays?

Regardless, let you just you really only play on the weekdays. What is the probability that “Individual C – Weekday” will not be online for 5 days straight compare to “Individual A – Weekend” not online for 2 days straight.

I know full well what you said. I just dknt see it being an issue that warrants changing the reset time. It’s all about choices. The players choose whether to be online or not. I see no need for them to get preferential treatment because of this.

Whether the example is hypothetical or not doesn’t matter. There are people with limited play times too. Moving the reset time could very well inpact them as well. Moving the reset time also screws over everyone who does guild missions between Saturday reset and the Monday reset for that initial week.

SkyShroud.2865:

Raid reset one hour earlier than GM, it isn’t the same, just the same day.

Wiki says otherwise. The Black Lion Key is an hour after Raid/Mission reset according to what I read there.

SkyShroud.2865:

I don’t think LS3 is part of HOT development, LS3 is a separate project, isn’kitten

Pretty sure it’s been said that it will need HoT or at the least follow on from it, so I consider it part of HoT development.
EDIT – Yes, you’ll need HoT for LS3.

Personally I don’t give a hoot if you have a rep req guild or not or your reasons behind it, but if you say you don’t have anyone in your guild affected by this (and if you did, you could make rep exceptions for those who can’t make missions with you), then I’m failing to see what all the hue and cry is about. And no, I don’t need you to reiterate your points again, I just fail to see why things need to be changed again when it’s been 8 months and people have adapted to the new times without any major complaints. There’s always going to be people who miss out on things because of when they can get on; people who can only play for 2 hours who miss out on Teq/TT – do you want those bosses to spawn every hour so everyone can have a crack at them? As I said, I can tell your heart’s in the right place but if the people who would be affected by this aren’t speaking out, I don’t see why you should speak for them in absentia.

Bellatrixa.3546:

SkyShroud.2865:

Raid reset one hour earlier than GM, it isn’t the same, just the same day.

Wiki says otherwise. The Black Lion Key is an hour after Raid/Mission reset according to what I read there.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild_mission gave a different timing for GM. I try backtracking the timing and yes, the GM wiki page is wrong.

Bellatrixa.3546:

Personally I don’t give a hoot if you have a rep req guild or not or your reasons behind it, but if you say you don’t have anyone in your guild affected by this (and if you did, you could make rep exceptions for those who can’t make missions with you), then I’m failing to see what all the hue and cry is about. And no, I don’t need you to reiterate your points again, I just fail to see why things need to be changed again when it’s been 8 months and people have adapted to the new times without any major complaints. There’s always going to be people who miss out on things because of when they can get on; people who can only play for 2 hours who miss out on Teq/TT – do you want those bosses to spawn every hour so everyone can have a crack at them? As I said, I can tell your heart’s in the right place but if the people who would be affected by this aren’t speaking out, I don’t see why you should speak for them in absentia.

The point is already mentioned but you disagree with the points. What to do.

SkyShroud.2865:

The point is already mentioned but you disagree with the points. What to do.

No, I just disagree there’s a serious problem that requires everyone to be kittened off again with mission reset times being changed after 8 months of it being how it is now and everyone adapting to the new schedule. No need to act condescending because people are disagreeing with you.

Bellatrixa.3546:

SkyShroud.2865:

The point is already mentioned but you disagree with the points. What to do.

No, I just disagree there’s a serious problem that requires everyone to be kittened off again with mission reset times being changed after 8 months of it being how it is now and everyone adapting to the new schedule. No need to act condescending because people are disagreeing with you.

=_=

You know, I weren’t the one that explicitly mentioned about OP having a rep rule, I also wasn’t the one that assuming the problem is with the OP’s guild like you were implying. I also weren’t the one that state not to reiterate the points already given. You were the one.

Ok, so we’ve established your guild isn’t a 100% Rep Guild. My question still stands – what’s stopping you from joining another guild specifically for Guild Missions if you can barely make time for Guild Missions with your current guild? There are plenty of large® guilds out there, and some with weekends designated as Guild Mission day.

Or – can’t you talk to your guildies to see if you can either change the day Guild Missions are done, or have more than one day? Not all my guildies can make our designated GM day (Wednesday) so to be flexible, I gave all guildies the permission to start their own guild missions whenever they want.

It still sounds like a guild issue to me, 100% rep or not.

penelopehannibal.8947:

Ok, so we’ve established your guild isn’t a 100% Rep Guild. My question still stands – what’s stopping you from joining another guild specifically for Guild Missions if you can barely make time for Guild Missions with your current guild? There are plenty of large® guilds out there, and some with weekends designated as Guild Mission day.

Or – can’t you talk to your guildies to see if you can either change the day Guild Missions are done, or have more than one day? Not all my guildies can make our designated GM day (Wednesday) so to be flexible, I gave all guildies the permission to start their own guild missions whenever they want.

It still sounds like a guild issue to me, 100% rep or not.

It just means you need to read the scenario again, they understand the scenario but citing it isn’t good enough reasons to change the timing. For you, you don’t get the scenario, so, please re-read.

SkyShroud.2865:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Ok, so we’ve established your guild isn’t a 100% Rep Guild. My question still stands – what’s stopping you from joining another guild specifically for Guild Missions if you can barely make time for Guild Missions with your current guild? There are plenty of large® guilds out there, and some with weekends designated as Guild Mission day.

Or – can’t you talk to your guildies to see if you can either change the day Guild Missions are done, or have more than one day? Not all my guildies can make our designated GM day (Wednesday) so to be flexible, I gave all guildies the permission to start their own guild missions whenever they want.

It still sounds like a guild issue to me, 100% rep or not.

It just means you need to read the scenario again, they understand the scenario but citing it isn’t good enough reasons to change the timing. For you, you don’t get the scenario, so, please re-read.

I was going from here:

SkyShroud.2865:

TexZero.7910:

you know you can do guild missions whenever right ?

Like whenever you want….

Try doing a guild challenge solo then?

You suggested you can’t do some missions solo, so why do you have to do them solo? This was the line of thinking I was going off.

SkyShroud.2865:

=_=

You know, I weren’t the one that explicitly mentioned about OP having a rep rule, I also wasn’t the one that assuming the problem is with the OP’s guild like you were implying. I also weren’t the one that state not to reiterate the points already given. You were the one.

You are OP and your rep requirement was pertinent given what I was responding to regarding joining other guilds for missions, and that was the sole reason I brought it up. If you don’t want people to associate your guild with rep requirements or know what they are, maybe you should tell your main recruiter, who I see daily, to remove the “90%rep 10% bank/TTS” from their recruit message.

None of that has to do with what I’m saying though. I get English isn’t your first language but I’m really having problems trying to follow your argument now. You say that there are people who are affected by reset being on a Monday morning due to their playing times being restricted to weekends, because they might miss missions one week and then not be able to get credit for that week but under the old system they would be able to catch up the next Saturday. A minority maybe but there are some people (none of whom have spoken out in the last 8 months or in this thread). Others have pointed out that this will always be the case no matter when reset is, therefore it’s pointless to change the time of mission resets when there have been no major complaints over the last 8 months and those who were affected by the change have adapted. People have said that those affected could run with other guilds for missions if they can’t make the times that missions are for them currently, and it’s not the game’s fault that people have real life obligations. In my eyes, you’re claiming that the problem is bigger than it actually is and want everyone to be disrupted again over a problem that barely exists.

I understand your examples perfectly well hence why I said not to reiterate what you’re trying to say because I get it – I don’t appreciate being talked down to or patronised which is what you’re doing to myself and others in this thread so I’m going to leave you to it.

SkyShroud.2865:

It just means you need to read the scenario again, they understand the scenario but citing it isn’t good enough reasons to change the timing. For you, you don’t get the scenario, so, please re-read.

On the contrary, it sounds as if you are responding as if you haven’t accepted the feedback written above:

• Any change requires that its benefits outweigh the costs. In that case, this includes ANet testing & implementing the change, explaining the change to the community, and the community adapting to it.
• The burden on explaining the benefits is on those proposing the change.

The feedback above is:

• The benefits apply to a tiny fraction of players; the costs apply to a somewhat larger fraction.
• The benefits to that tiny fraction are marginal.

Or in other words: you haven’t convinced anyone that this is worth doing.

If you want, you can keep arguing that critics aren’t reading your proposal or explanation carefully. Or you can accept that folks understand the idea and yet remain skeptical.

If it’s the former, there’s nothing really to discuss: you don’t agree with the critics; the critics don’t agree with you and that’s not going to change.

If the latter, consider going back to the drawing board: what is the goal here? Could it be something that you can accomplish without involving ANet, e.g. by joining a different guild (for g-mish) or convincing the current guild that it’s worth changing their current schedule? If that’s not possible, what other ways are there to resolve the issue? Or alternatively, instead of offering a solution, start with the issue: what is really at stake? Forum people are often creative in offering suggestions if you phrased this as a question rather than an answer.

The OP’s argument appears to be that players who cannot play for the seven consecutive days that exactly match one GM week have to miss the GM in that week.

Or am I missing something?

As others have already said, there will never be a reset time that works for all players all the time. The lack of posts asking for a change to the mission reset time indicates that the current time is fine with most forum users, at least. So, the majority seems to be content with it. Players with real-life responsibilities will sometimes miss out on stuff; it’s going to happen to everyone at least a few times, and all we can do is suck it up and play when we can play.

DoctorDing.5890:

The OP’s argument appears to be that players who cannot play for the seven consecutive days that exactly match one GM week have to miss the GM in that week.

Or am I missing something?

Think of it this way:

Let’s assume that GM reset has been already been changed to reset with the daily on Saturdays. The OP will not be able to play this weekend for whatever reason and they can only play on weekends for whatever reason. They can still do the GM’s the following Saturday next week prior to the reset. Under the existing system, they would miss out entirely due to their very limited playability schedule.

This is completely ignoring that most guilds have a specific day that they do guild missions. Unless their guild changes days specifically for that player, they have another guild that does it on Saturdays before reset, or can get people to help them on Saturday; they’re not going to complete their guild missions anyway.

Ayrilana.1396:

DoctorDing.5890:

The OP’s argument appears to be that players who cannot play for the seven consecutive days that exactly match one GM week have to miss the GM in that week.

Or am I missing something?

Think of it this way:

Let’s assume that GM reset has been already been changed to reset with the daily on Saturdays. The OP will not be able to play this weekend for whatever reason and they can only play on weekends for whatever reason. They can still do the GM’s the following Saturday next week prior to the reset. Under the existing system, they would miss out entirely due to their very limited playability schedule.

This is completely ignoring that most guilds have a specific day that they do guild missions. Unless their guild changes days specifically for that player, they have another guild that does it on Saturdays before reset, or can get people to help them on Saturday; they’re not going to complete their guild missions anyway.

And I’m sure even the 100% rep required guilds if the player politely explained the situation could get an excuse to rep another guild for the time it takes to do guild missions if the player absolutely had an issue with missing guild missions that week. Especially now that rep doesn’t give the guilds anything but members who rep 100% of the time.

SkyShroud: we get your problem. We really do. We just don’t think the number of players affected by it would warrant a change in reset time that will just put a different group of players into the affected by the reset time in a negative manner.

And you haven’t given us a reason other than “it’s inconvenient for some players” as a reason. And that’s not a good enough reason for ANY change in a game.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

SkyShroud.2865:

It just means you need to read the scenario again, they understand the scenario but citing it isn’t good enough reasons to change the timing. For you, you don’t get the scenario, so, please re-read.

On the contrary, it sounds as if you are responding as if you haven’t accepted the feedback written above:

• Any change requires that its benefits outweigh the costs. In that case, this includes ANet testing & implementing the change, explaining the change to the community, and the community adapting to it.
• The burden on explaining the benefits is on those proposing the change.

The feedback above is:

• The benefits apply to a tiny fraction of players; the costs apply to a somewhat larger fraction.
• The benefits to that tiny fraction are marginal.

Or in other words: you haven’t convinced anyone that this is worth doing.

If you want, you can keep arguing that critics aren’t reading your proposal or explanation carefully. Or you can accept that folks understand the idea and yet remain skeptical.

If it’s the former, there’s nothing really to discuss: you don’t agree with the critics; the critics don’t agree with you and that’s not going to change.

If the latter, consider going back to the drawing board: what is the goal here? Could it be something that you can accomplish without involving ANet, e.g. by joining a different guild (for g-mish) or convincing the current guild that it’s worth changing their current schedule? If that’s not possible, what other ways are there to resolve the issue? Or alternatively, instead of offering a solution, start with the issue: what is really at stake? Forum people are often creative in offering suggestions if you phrased this as a question rather than an answer.

I totally understand the reasons given why it isn’t worth the efforts, again, totally. It was based on the majority and business perspective but I am looking at the minority perspective.

When the points were stated and if people disagree and consider minority as not worth it, there isn’t really much to argue about other then “effort” and “worth”. “Effort” to change and “worth” of the minority.

When I do mentioned that people are reading it incorrectly, I mean it but I also acknowledge people who are reading correct and citing that their reasons to disagree. When there are individuals who are reading incorrectly, I have to correct them so they can stay on the topic and not branch off to irrelevant discussions. Also, some could even relate to guilds which was never mentioned (/shrugs) when the main subject has always been individuals who have serious time constraints.

SkyShroud.2865:

TexZero.7910:

you know you can do guild missions whenever right ?

Like whenever you want….

Try doing a guild challenge solo then?

Is your guild really that underwhelming that no one can go “Hey guy’s i’d like to run X mission, we only need 5 people”

Bellatrixa.3546:

SkyShroud.2865:

=_=

You know, I weren’t the one that explicitly mentioned about OP having a rep rule, I also wasn’t the one that assuming the problem is with the OP’s guild like you were implying. I also weren’t the one that state not to reiterate the points already given. You were the one.

You are OP and your rep requirement was pertinent given what I was responding to regarding joining other guilds for missions, and that was the sole reason I brought it up. If you don’t want people to associate your guild with rep requirements or know what they are, maybe you should tell your main recruiter, who I see daily, to remove the “90%rep 10% bank/TTS” from their recruit message.

None of that has to do with what I’m saying though. I get English isn’t your first language but I’m really having problems trying to follow your argument now. You say that there are people who are affected by reset being on a Monday morning due to their playing times being restricted to weekends, because they might miss missions one week and then not be able to get credit for that week but under the old system they would be able to catch up the next Saturday. A minority maybe but there are some people (none of whom have spoken out in the last 8 months or in this thread). Others have pointed out that this will always be the case no matter when reset is, therefore it’s pointless to change the time of mission resets when there have been no major complaints over the last 8 months and those who were affected by the change have adapted. People have said that those affected could run with other guilds for missions if they can’t make the times that missions are for them currently, and it’s not the game’s fault that people have real life obligations. In my eyes, you’re claiming that the problem is bigger than it actually is and want everyone to be disrupted again over a problem that barely exists.

I understand your examples perfectly well hence why I said not to reiterate what you’re trying to say because I get it – I don’t appreciate being talked down to or patronised which is what you’re doing to myself and others in this thread so I’m going to leave you to it.

You think I am being condescending and you feel like being patronized. However, I am feeling that from you instead. When you mentioned about my guild when I did not even once mentioned about it as part of the main subject, when the way you imply my guild and suggest negative things, you have already begin to behave in condescending manner. Furthermore, your one block reply continues to behave as such. I don’t know, it feels like pot calling kettle black.

Lastly, is not I don’t understand your reasoning, but as above, the way you made replies is offending.

TexZero.7910:

SkyShroud.2865:

TexZero.7910:

you know you can do guild missions whenever right ?

Like whenever you want….

Try doing a guild challenge solo then?

Is your guild really that underwhelming that no one can go “Hey guy’s i’d like to run X mission, we only need 5 people”

I’m gonna ignore you, you have been making irrelevant posts and now making assumptions.

SkyShroud.2865:

TexZero.7910:

SkyShroud.2865:

TexZero.7910:

you know you can do guild missions whenever right ?

Like whenever you want….

Try doing a guild challenge solo then?

Is your guild really that underwhelming that no one can go “Hey guy’s i’d like to run X mission, we only need 5 people”

I’m gonna ignore you, you have been making irrelevant posts and now making assumptions.

Actually it was quite relevant, what was irrelevant was you trying to make a snide comment about running missions solo.

You can now run missions whenever, without cost. There’s no time at which if a player is online they cannot run missions. Therefore the concept of reset is a joke used to gate people to once a week. You have 7 days to find 1hr a week to complete the missions. If you or the people in your guild can’t do this than the mission timer isn’t the problem.

TexZero.7910:

SkyShroud.2865:

TexZero.7910:

SkyShroud.2865:

TexZero.7910:

you know you can do guild missions whenever right ?

Like whenever you want….

Try doing a guild challenge solo then?

Is your guild really that underwhelming that no one can go “Hey guy’s i’d like to run X mission, we only need 5 people”

I’m gonna ignore you, you have been making irrelevant posts and now making assumptions.

Actually it was quite relevant, what was irrelevant was you trying to make a snide comment about running missions solo.

You can now run missions whenever, without cost. There’s no time at which if a player is online they cannot run missions. Therefore the concept of reset is a joke used to gate people to once a week. You have 7 days to find 1hr a week to complete the missions. If you or the people in your guild can’t do this than the mission timer isn’t the problem.

In that case I have misunderstood that you actually understood the subject. Again, it is about individuals who can’t play 7 days per week, about individuals who can only play at weekends, about individuals who can only play bi-weekly. People who have a lot of time constraints.

The timer technically, has no issue. I 100% agree with you. But can it not be reverted to the old timing so less people will be left out?

Also, you still assuming that I have issue which throughout the thread, I’ve said it isn’t mine issue but doesn’t mean it should be overlooked.

SkyShroud.2865:

TexZero.7910:

SkyShroud.2865:

TexZero.7910:

SkyShroud.2865:

TexZero.7910:

you know you can do guild missions whenever right ?

Like whenever you want….

Try doing a guild challenge solo then?

Is your guild really that underwhelming that no one can go “Hey guy’s i’d like to run X mission, we only need 5 people”

I’m gonna ignore you, you have been making irrelevant posts and now making assumptions.

Actually it was quite relevant, what was irrelevant was you trying to make a snide comment about running missions solo.

You can now run missions whenever, without cost. There’s no time at which if a player is online they cannot run missions. Therefore the concept of reset is a joke used to gate people to once a week. You have 7 days to find 1hr a week to complete the missions. If you or the people in your guild can’t do this than the mission timer isn’t the problem.

In that case I have misunderstood that you actually understood the subject. Again, it is about individuals who can’t play 7 days per week, about individuals who can only play at weekends, about individuals who can only play bi-weekly. People who have a lot of time constraints.

The timer technically, has no issue. I 100% agree with you. But can it not be reverted to the old timing so less people will be left out?

Also, you still assuming that I have issue which throughout the thread, I’ve said it isn’t mine issue but doesn’t mean it should be overlooked.

But here’s the thing, other people have different days they work and different days and times that they can guarantee being able to play. Why should the people who only have availability on the weekend be the only group ANet considers when deciding whether or not to change a reset time? What proof do you have that your minority of players who can only play on Saturday and Sunday outnumber the other combinations out there?

And why has no one in this boat come to the forums and posted their displeasure with it (and I’m talking about since the change, not players’ worries before the change happened)? I’ve also not seen anything in any chats in the game either. Why has no one come forward in this thread to agree with you? Shouldn’t that tell you that maybe this problem you see isn’t as big of a deal as you think and that maybe ANet needs to put their resources towards things that more people who are actually affected by the problem are actually posting about. Like the precursor armor clipping issue with Charr tails and Asura feet. Like account bound BLTC weapon skins obtained via the scraps and tickets that come from the horrible RNG BLTC chests. Like Gifts of Battle switching from being obtained via Badges of Honor and the WvW reward track and the fact that they did not effectively communicate this change beforehand.

Seera.5916:

SkyShroud.2865:

TexZero.7910:

SkyShroud.2865:

TexZero.7910:

SkyShroud.2865:

TexZero.7910:

you know you can do guild missions whenever right ?

Like whenever you want….

Try doing a guild challenge solo then?

Is your guild really that underwhelming that no one can go “Hey guy’s i’d like to run X mission, we only need 5 people”

I’m gonna ignore you, you have been making irrelevant posts and now making assumptions.

Actually it was quite relevant, what was irrelevant was you trying to make a snide comment about running missions solo.

You can now run missions whenever, without cost. There’s no time at which if a player is online they cannot run missions. Therefore the concept of reset is a joke used to gate people to once a week. You have 7 days to find 1hr a week to complete the missions. If you or the people in your guild can’t do this than the mission timer isn’t the problem.

In that case I have misunderstood that you actually understood the subject. Again, it is about individuals who can’t play 7 days per week, about individuals who can only play at weekends, about individuals who can only play bi-weekly. People who have a lot of time constraints.

The timer technically, has no issue. I 100% agree with you. But can it not be reverted to the old timing so less people will be left out?

Also, you still assuming that I have issue which throughout the thread, I’ve said it isn’t mine issue but doesn’t mean it should be overlooked.

But here’s the thing, other people have different days they work and different days and times that they can guarantee being able to play. Why should the people who only have availability on the weekend be the only group ANet considers when deciding whether or not to change a reset time? What proof do you have that your minority of players who can only play on Saturday and Sunday outnumber the other combinations out there?

And why has no one in this boat come to the forums and posted their displeasure with it (and I’m talking about since the change, not players’ worries before the change happened)? I’ve also not seen anything in any chats in the game either. Why has no one come forward in this thread to agree with you? Shouldn’t that tell you that maybe this problem you see isn’t as big of a deal as you think and that maybe ANet needs to put their resources towards things that more people who are actually affected by the problem are actually posting about. Like the precursor armor clipping issue with Charr tails and Asura feet. Like account bound BLTC weapon skins obtained via the scraps and tickets that come from the horrible RNG BLTC chests. Like Gifts of Battle switching from being obtained via Badges of Honor and the WvW reward track and the fact that they did not effectively communicate this change beforehand.

What combinations are you referring to? You mean like people who work night shift, day shift, 2 days 1 rest shift and so on? Let’s put it this in other way. Does changing the timing affect current people’s accessibility negatively? Does it affect your accessibility? Does it affect anyone’s accessibility here who are disagreeing it negatively? If no one can prove to me that changing the timing can affect the current people’s accessibility negatively, then how can you tell me to accept that reverting the time is a bad thing to do? At most, I can only leave it “agree to disagree” but to accept that it is bad thing to do, is different story.

There certainly is some displeasure but it isn’t that big as it is the minority, instead of complaining, decided to move on.

Yes, I can agree to you about the resources part, coming from the business perspective. However, it doesn’t mean the issue should be buried and not highlighted. Otherwise, it will be just like the years old bug, for example, AC merge path, buried and forgotten it as bugs, then people doing it publicly like a norm.