Guild Wars 2

BrotherBelial.3094:

I disagree with your view of sPvP, it is not just skill, you need the right traits, sigils and runes and neck item. in sPvP. there is just a lot more to it than skill alone, even if skill is a big factor.

Right, fair point.

Tea.7025:

Katalos.5038:

As a weak player, I can join alliances with friends and guilds to beat the shxx out of that OP player. It is just like raid dungeon, only the boss is a player this time. I think it is fun.

Well, let me tell you how that works.

The alliance of valiant heroes attempt to take down the mean lone wolf. They perhaps succeed. It turns out that wolves come in packs so the overpowered player contacts their overpowered friends and together they camp the valiant heroes for the next few weeks.

Most of the time the alliance doesn’t even have a chance to form and rise up against the big bad because the overpowered players spend most of their time massacring lowbies who then either quit out of sheer frustration or join the gankers. What else would those pixel gods do? They’ve beaten probably everything the game has to offer, that’s why they’re so overpowered to begin with.

I see you made an assumption that there are no friendly OP players. What you described only happened to me in a p2w MMORPG (where OP players are mostly rich kids). It rarely happens to me.

In my case, this is what normally happens. There are three types of OP players, the mean ones (normally rich kids), the friendly ones (normally adults with time and money), and the I-don’t-give-a-shxx ones. The mean OP players will take over all the resources and bully other players. Over time, weak players alliances will be formed and war rages. The I-don’t-give-a-shxx ones normally won’t get involve in this because the mean OP players do not have the guts to disturb them. Those I-don’t-give-a-shxx OP players, like the name suggest, they login, they pay, they play, they kill people who stand in their way, and they logout. No drama, nothing. Coolest players ever. The friendly OP players will normally join the alliance and fight with us because they love the game and they don’t want the game to die. When war turns sour, until a point that the gameplay is being affected (large scale open world PvP, so mobs in that map will be wiped too), I-don’t-give-a-shxx OP players will join the winning side and end this shxx.

I even played an MMORPG before where the friendly OP players dominate the server. They make regulations, they form alliances, and they destroy mean players. In that game, cities can be taken over by guilds and the guild that owns the city can control the tax in the city and ban players from the city (city’s guards will attack them if they enter). If mean players dominate the server, the game can be literally unplayable (they take over all the cities and ban people they don’t like from it). However, that doesn’t happen. The alliance determines which guild takes over which city (the whole alliance will join the war taking over the city) and what tax they can impose. Guilds outside the alliance are welcome to take over the city too if they are good enough (no help will be offered though). Those guilds can do whatever they want with their city, high taxes or ban players. However, when they cross the line and affect major gameplay, the alliance will crush them.

130 hours was also what i needed for my first character that was leveled only with
exploring.
Gets faster with each char if you have money to craft some professions, and also
do less and less exploration on each new character.

The one thing I just take issue with is with your mention of the dungeon.

This is not anets fault, and really cannot do anything to stop it. This is the players themselves. The description said lv 80 experienced. Even if there were no levels, it would’ve said, “exp only”. And chances are when they saw you dying to bosses or asking what a boss does, auto kick anyway.

So again, don’t put this dislike at a net, put it against picky players.

Beldin.5498:

130 hours was also what i needed for my first character that was leveled only with
exploring.
Gets faster with each char if you have money to craft some professions, and also
do less and less exploration on each new character.

And more tomes too. One day I am going to have 80 tomes, then I will spend it on one new character. lol

Serophous.9085:

The one thing I just take issue with is with your mention of the dungeon.

This is not anets fault, and really cannot do anything to stop it. This is the players themselves. The description said lv 80 experienced. Even if there were no levels, it would’ve said, “exp only”. And chances are when they saw you dying to bosses or asking what a boss does, auto kick anyway.

So again, don’t put this dislike at a net, put it against picky players.

Nope, I don’t blame Anet. I don’t blame those players either. I understand that they have done it so many times and they are now so bored. They will definitely expect people to know it so that they can finish it quickly.

I don’t join those team that says “exp 80’s”. I normally start my own team that says “Path x (I want to read the story, no speed run)”. I will need to wait for very long, but the teammates I gather are either exp players that are willing/prefer to run it slowly or newbies that have not done it before. Running with all newbies is fun because we have to figure everything ourselves, but time consuming. Running with exp players is fun too because I can read my story, and learn something (like where to stack, etc.).

Katalos.5038:

I see you made an assumption that there are no friendly OP players.

I see you made the assumption that I made an assumption.

I played games with your favored system. It was a disgusting experience that almost made me give up on the genre. I met the occasional kind power player but most of them were raging donkeys intent on ruining the game for everyone else around them.

As for who is nice and who isn’t… you’d be suprised if you knew that most of the trash-talking and lowbie ganking players ARE adults. The rich kid stereotype was never true. There are rich kids riding their parents’ credit card, don’t misunderstand me, but they’re the exception and not the rule.

By the way, I’d be really interested in knowing when and where you experienced that utopia of yours. A game that is ruled by good people who enforce fair rules and the majority agrees to those rules? Amazing! If we could round up those players in real life then we might just achieve world peace!

Tea.7025:

Katalos.5038:

I see you made an assumption that there are no friendly OP players.

I see you made the assumption that I made an assumption.

I played games with your favored system. It was a disgusting experience that almost made me give up on the genre. I met the occasional kind power player but most of them were raging donkeys intent on ruining the game for everyone else around them.

As for who is nice and who isn’t… you’d be suprised if you knew that most of the trash-talking and lowbie ganking players ARE adults. The rich kid stereotype was never true. There are rich kids riding their parents’ credit card, don’t misunderstand me, but they’re the exception and not the rule.

By the way, I’d be really interested in knowing when and where you experienced that utopia of yours. A game that is ruled by good people who enforce fair rules and the majority agrees to those rules? Amazing! If we could round up those players in real life then we might just achieve world peace!

I am sorry to hear that you had such bad experiences with those games. Yeah, I might have the stereotype, but whatever, they are the ones who told me their identity. It might be a lie after all.

It was a very old asian MMORPG, my favorite MMORPG of all time. It was like ~8 years ago. This game ruined my high school btw, lol. Well, the game is ruled by just a few good OP players, some of them are probably not even good people. They just have to do it so that they can join the alliance (just like GW2 players who revived you might be good people, they can get exp and your death is a DPS lost to them). The game is also exceptional hard (that’s why it died :C, new players have no patient to play it). So, it is not possible for mean players to cause trouble. There are just not enough mean players to overwhelm the alliance.

Real world? They have to have overwhelming strong military force to do that. This is actually kind-of what is happening in the world now. A few strong countries that have overwhelm military force that other small countries have to follow. Only a few stubborn countries try to fight back. Now think about it, it is actually very similar to the game I played. There are wars going on, but majority of the world are definitely peaceful.

Katalos.5038:

• Combat system
  I love action combat system (so, again, stop suggesting WoW). The best action combat system I have played is Monster Hunter, and the second best doesn’t even come close. MH has no “dodge skill” that will make you invulnerable during the animation. “Dodge” is simply a method of moving. You move out from the attack, you dodge it. You move into the attack, you get hit. That’s the “dodge” part.
  Then, the mobs part. In GW2, it is impossible to dodge every melee attacks because the mobs just come to you and attack without any pre animation. Almost every mobs have no pre animation. Only a few mobs and bosses have pre animation for their attack. In addition, we can only dodge twice at a time. So, I don’t even bother to dodge now, unless it is a big attack. In a result, GW2 is not so “action” compared to games like MH, Tera and Dragon Nest.

You and I must be playing different games. Dodging is an essential element to combat, especially if you are outnumbered, outleveled or fighting a tough opponent (like when you solo a champion). Mastering it is important if you want to survive fights, as you can’t just stand in one spot and tank damage constantly. It is only one element to the fight, though (other elements include deflecting damage, interrupting attacks, confusing your opponent, etc).

Timing and mastery of your skills is everything in this game and is the difference between people who get murdered in a couple of hits from a champion and people who can solo them. When I see combatants who aren’t dodging or constantly moving, I can usually predict that they will not succeed unless they have a lot of help.

i agree with allot off things

what i like is the graphics art work is very well done +1 Anet
Dynamic events i love it not just random kill 20 that walk back to NPC and kill 20 off those gets very boring

large scale WvW/EOTM big fan off EOTM my self so100 off more pll on 1 map going crazy :p as long your comp can handle the lagg :p

good music is for me a must in any mmorpg and Anet did a great job
am also a big fan off good RPG console music like Chrono Cross it have amazing tracks that just blow you away https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=923fVDDwaHo

what i dislike
Megasever with this to many pll join a world boss way to many the boss gets to easy kilt its boring no real challenge

the new system for new players it can be very hard if you dont no what you must do
if your lvl 3 and the mops are lvl 3 they can kill you easy if you have more off them
ad lvl 4 you get ad last your stats boost + 30 and things look better for you

the dodge system sucks you only can do it 2 times then your stuck and have a very hard time killing many many mops in some areas and you must mostly run for your life

some classes are to slow in running when others get easy 25% speed boost
it can be a pain in the butt in WvW or EOTM the train wont stop
you only hope is that other players use there AOE speed buff on you if not you be left behind and you lose EXP karma and more

that’s about it i can think off
sorry for my English

ProphetSword.5427:

Katalos.5038:

• Combat system
  I love action combat system (so, again, stop suggesting WoW). The best action combat system I have played is Monster Hunter, and the second best doesn’t even come close. MH has no “dodge skill” that will make you invulnerable during the animation. “Dodge” is simply a method of moving. You move out from the attack, you dodge it. You move into the attack, you get hit. That’s the “dodge” part.
  Then, the mobs part. In GW2, it is impossible to dodge every melee attacks because the mobs just come to you and attack without any pre animation. Almost every mobs have no pre animation. Only a few mobs and bosses have pre animation for their attack. In addition, we can only dodge twice at a time. So, I don’t even bother to dodge now, unless it is a big attack. In a result, GW2 is not so “action” compared to games like MH, Tera and Dragon Nest.

You and I must be playing different games. Dodging is an essential element to combat, especially if you are outnumbered, outleveled or fighting a tough opponent (like when you solo a champion). Mastering it is important if you want to survive fights, as you can’t just stand in one spot and tank damage constantly. It is only one element to the fight, though (other elements include deflecting damage, interrupting attacks, confusing your opponent, etc).

Timing and mastery of your skills is everything in this game and is the difference between people who get murdered in a couple of hits from a champion and people who can solo them. When I see combatants who aren’t dodging or constantly moving, I can usually predict that they will not succeed unless they have a lot of help.

We are playing the same game. I didn’t say dodge is not an essential element in combat. I said dodge in GW2 is not as important as other action combat games I played. You mentioned dodge is only one of the elements, there are other things in GW2. That’s exactly what I meant. This makes GW2 not so action oriented.

Genlog.4983:

i agree with allot off things

what i like is the graphics art work is very well done +1 Anet
Dynamic events i love it not just random kill 20 that walk back to NPC and kill 20 off those gets very boring

large scale WvW/EOTM big fan off EOTM my self so100 off more pll on 1 map going crazy :p as long your comp can handle the lagg :p

good music is for me a must in any mmorpg and Anet did a great job
am also a big fan off good RPG console music like Chrono Cross it have amazing tracks that just blow you away https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=923fVDDwaHo

what i dislike
Megasever with this to many pll join a world boss way to many the boss gets to easy kilt its boring no real challenge

the new system for new players it can be very hard if you dont no what you must do
if your lvl 3 and the mops are lvl 3 they can kill you easy if you have more off them
ad lvl 4 you get ad last your stats boost + 30 and things look better for you

the dodge system sucks you only can do it 2 times then your stuck and have a very hard time killing many many mops in some areas and you must mostly run for your life

some classes are to slow in running when others get easy 25% speed boost
it can be a pain in the butt in WvW or EOTM the train wont stop
you only hope is that other players use there AOE speed buff on you if not you be left behind and you lose EXP karma and more

that’s about it i can think off
sorry for my English

Thank you for your reply.

Not a big fan of the music personally. So, no comments on the musics. I have neutral feeling in it. However, I do see regional differences in the taste of musics. My asian friends either don’t like it or don’t mind it; western friends love it.

I love/hate the megaserver. It is very impressive, technologically, and I love big scale fights. I hate it because, like you said, world bosses become too easy (except for some).

I don’t like the dodge system too, but I won’t say it sucks, especially in this forum (see how many hostile replies I got when I only said I prefer other combat systems). I would say it depends on your play style, some might like it, but some do not. What I hope to change is not the dodge system (it can’t, technically), but the defensive people. I hope they can understand there are people who prefer different things in this world. They can express their opinions, like it or not, but not shout at people who think otherwise.

Ele has a lot of speed boost skills, so I won’t complain much on this, lol.

Katalos.5038:

The game is also exceptional hard (that’s why it died :C, new players have no patient to play it). So, it is not possible for mean players to cause trouble. There are just not enough mean players to overwhelm the alliance.

Ah, I see. It’s a shame that it died because I would have loved to see that community in action. Just a sneak peek.

There’s a big issue here though. As you mentioned, the game withered away as it couldn’t attract or hold on to new players due to its difficulty. A lot of that difficulty no doubt came from the forced open world PvP, player controlled towns and overall feeling of dread whenever you saw another player and had to guess whether they’re there to help or hinder you.

A small, loyal, dare I say hardcore playerbase isn’t a bad thing in itself but only if the game was created with that in mind to begin with. So budget, update frequency and the in-game system itself has to lend itself to only being made for and supported by a couple thousand or even just a couple hundred people.

While some of your thoughts and ideas sound good on paper, if Guild Wars 2 went the way of games you used to play then it would either die rather quickly or get transformed into a product that bears no resemblance to the current version.

Tea.7025:

Katalos.5038:

The game is also exceptional hard (that’s why it died :C, new players have no patient to play it). So, it is not possible for mean players to cause trouble. There are just not enough mean players to overwhelm the alliance.

Ah, I see. It’s a shame that it died because I would have loved to see that community in action. Just a sneak peek.

There’s a big issue here though. As you mentioned, the game withered away as it couldn’t attract or hold on to new players due to its difficulty. A lot of that difficulty no doubt came from the forced open world PvP, player controlled towns and overall feeling of dread whenever you saw another player and had to guess whether they’re there to help or hinder you.

A small, loyal, dare I say hardcore playerbase isn’t a bad thing in itself but only if the game was created with that in mind to begin with. So budget, update frequency and the in-game system itself has to lend itself to only being made for and supported by a couple thousand or even just a couple hundred people.

While some of your thoughts and ideas sound good on paper, if Guild Wars 2 went the way of games you used to play then it would either die rather quickly or get transformed into a product that bears no resemblance to the current version.

Erm, I didn’t mention forced open world PvP. I first saw force open world PvP in Tera PvP server. I have not seen anything like that before in my culture. Now I understand why players in the forum are so paranoid when I mention “open world PvP”. By open world PvP, I simply means PvP in open world. The only harm it can cause is killing mobs that are meant for leveling players. I am totally against forced open world PvP. In all the MMORPGs I played, we have the option to turn on dueling mode (I think this is what it’s called here). Players in dueling mode can attack players in dueling mode. Players who are not in dueling mode can neither attack nor attacked by any players.

I don’t see how players controlled town make the game difficult.

Since there isn’t forced open world PvP, there isn’t the felling of dread too.

The three things you mentioned caused nothing to the game difficulty. The game difficulty is caused by the game itself. Players do not have a “character level”, instead, we have multiple levels. Sword skill, shooting skill, planting, lumbering, talking (yes, it changes how NPC treats you. with high talking level, you can buy stuffs from vendors with lower price), and so much more. If I can remember correctly, we have like 12 (?) expertise to level.

So, sword skill level affects what sword you can equip, and the damage you can do using sword and etc.. It is very very difficult to level one expertise. For example, if you want to level lumbering to max, you need to stand there, chop trees 24/7 for, I don’t remember, 5 months? It sounds very long, especially compared to GW2, but level in that game makes huge difference (it causes the problem of low level maps become useless, it is a double edge swords).

And no, I did not ask GW2 to change to the game I used to play. I am here just to point out things I like and dislike.

Katalos.5038:

Now I understand why players in the forum are so paranoid when I mention “open world PvP”. By open world PvP, I simply means PvP in open world. The only harm it can cause is killing mobs that are meant for leveling players. I am totally against forced open world PvP. In all the MMORPGs I played, we have the option to turn on dueling mode (I think this is what it’s called here). Players in dueling mode can attack players in dueling mode. Players who are not in dueling mode can neither attack nor attacked by any players.

Now it makes sense!

Yes, open world PvP in the western gaming lingo usually means free-for-all player killing throughout the world. In most games towns are a safe zone while in sandbox ones you can be attacked almost anywhere. More hardcore ones (these are very often of Asian origin) make your character drop some of their items upon death.

Dueling is a feature that lets a player challenge another (even allies and party members) then duke it out between each other. No one else can attack them.

What you mention is an optional PvP toogle used on PvE servers, giving the option for the player to “flag” themselves for PvP and in turn be able to attack others who are also flagged. Now that’s something I can agree with! Enjoyed the peace of PvE servers but sometimes friends and I liked flagging ourselves and participating in world PvP as part of an RP event.

Katalos.5038:

I don’t see how players controlled town make the game difficult.

You mentioned that the guilds which control those towns can ban players from them at whim. That’s a problem if the player in question wants to enter those towns for whatever reason.

Katalos.5038:

Since there isn’t forced open world PvP, there isn’t the felling of dread too.

That depends. Did all players who attacked a monster got credit for it? Were the resource nodes used for those skills (lumbering, for example) shared? If no, that means that players still viewed each other as a threat. Even if the other guy can’t kill you, he can still tag and take all the monsters you need or beat you to the resource nodes thus preventing you from advancing in the game.

Not saying competitiveness is inherently wrong. It isn’t. But it’s not for everyone and in my opinion far too many games are built on the idea that players will be absolutely thrilled to go against each other.

Katalos.5038:

And no, I did not ask GW2 to change to the game I used to play. I am here just to point out things I like and dislike.

I have read and even commented (I think?) on your previous thread where you actually DID say that you’d like to see some of those features in GW2. Reading the opening post gave me the impression that you were still aiming for that.

Thank you for clearing that all up and apologies for the misunderstanding. Wish you luck and I hope we meet somewhere in Tyria!

Tea.7025:

Now it makes sense!

Yes, open world PvP in the western gaming lingo usually means free-for-all player killing throughout the world. In most games towns are a safe zone while in sandbox ones you can be attacked almost anywhere. More hardcore ones (these are very often of Asian origin) make your character drop some of their items upon death.

Dueling is a feature that lets a player challenge another (even allies and party members) then duke it out between each other. No one else can attack them.

What you mention is an optional PvP toogle used on PvE servers, giving the option for the player to “flag” themselves for PvP and in turn be able to attack others who are also flagged. Now that’s something I can agree with! Enjoyed the peace of PvE servers but sometimes friends and I liked flagging ourselves and participating in world PvP as part of an RP event.

Drop items? DROP items? My items??? That is brutal. Who in the right mind would like that? Okay, now it makes sense. Now I understand why I got all those hostile replies T.T So, all this while, I have been portraying myself to be that guy without the right mind :C

Tea.7025:

You mentioned that the guilds which control those towns can ban players from them at whim. That’s a problem if the player in question wants to enter those towns for whatever reason.

Oh yeah, but we have the alliance of justice Those who got rejected form other towns are welcome to the town we own, which is basically almost everywhere, lol. They got banned for some reason too. If they are banned without a reason or the reason is simply cyber bullying, they can talk to the alliance and the alliance will sort things out for them (we once took down a guild because they crossed the line).

Tea.7025:

That depends. Did all players who attacked a monster got credit for it? Were the resource nodes used for those skills (lumbering, for example) shared? If no, that means that players still viewed each other as a threat. Even if the other guy can’t kill you, he can still tag and take all the monsters you need or beat you to the resource nodes thus preventing you from advancing in the game.

Not saying competitiveness is inherently wrong. It isn’t. But it’s not for everyone and in my opinion far too many games are built on the idea that players will be absolutely thrilled to go against each other.

Oh no, I think GW2 is the only MMORPG with that system. You can kill steal mobs. They handle resource nodes a little bit differently. They have a farm for resources nodes (not mobs), except for some incredibly rare resources. All resources are unlimited, the only limitations you have are your gathering tool (for example, can only last for 500 times) and your backpack.

Yea, players can kill steal to prevent from advancing, but I view that as a normal behavior in MMORPG, until I met GW2 :P

Tea.7025:

I have read and even commented (I think?) on your previous thread where you actually DID say that you’d like to see some of those features in GW2. Reading the opening post gave me the impression that you were still aiming for that.

Thank you for clearing that all up and apologies for the misunderstanding. Wish you luck and I hope we meet somewhere in Tyria!

Yea, I will be happy if GW2 changes, but I am not asking it to change. It can be what it is now and I am still enjoying it.

I apologies for my misuse of words too. I hope to see you in Tyria too. Characters that bear the name of “Katalos” are my characters