Rewards as incentive is a community issue, not developer
It’s just a reflection of the larger culture we live in, not just a gamer thing. IRL many people are motivated to become a doctor, lawyer, businessman etc. not to help people or make the world a better place, but because “I wanna be rich, drive an expensive car, dress in tailored suits, have a beautiful wife and make everyone jealous of me.” Getting the “top tier” gear and such is just an in-game version of this.
. . .
Personally allowing easy(ish) access to full exotics to most players is a perfect system. . .
Hmmm…I grew-up with the learning that a socialist system is far less than a perfect system.
But that’s me.
I really depends doesn’t it. In a game designed to be more of a sandbox, it makes sense that people will naturally find ways to do their own thing for fun, because it was designed to allow it.
GW2 is not that type of game. It is essentially a theme park. The game simply wasn’t designed for what you are talking about. You could look at UO for a good example of players finding their own fun in game; though rewards also played a role as well.
In a game like GW2, the only hook is rewards. Apart from doing the one time activities (exploring for example), and running the DE’s a few times, there really isn’t much else to do. I guess you could participate in the artificially depressed economy. It’s not a free form game and crafting so far looks to be rather useless. It was designed as a single player action adventure game with MMO features.
It is intrinsically not a player generated content game unless you participate in the pvp. So it very much is a developer issue.
Personally allowing easy(ish) access to full exotics to most players is a perfect system,
Allowing players to heavliy out stat each other would destroy WvW and the way mobs work in zones and discourage skilled players who simply dont have the time,
Might not have been your intention, but this sounds like the special Olympics or a peewee baseball game. It screams “lets celebrate mediocrity.” Its a socialist system at best. Lets give everyone a medal for just showing up. There is no opportunity for skilled players to stand out and above those that are not.
It could be argued that cosmetics are that gold medal to strive for, but why not better gear? Why is it ok to grind for cosmetics but not upgrades? From my perspective, people that use this argument are giving a skewed opinion due to their lack of play time to compete with those who do have more play time.
There is no opportunity for skilled players to stand out and above those that are not.
What? this makes no sense, if everyone has same level gear then the skilled players shine, as skill is all that matters.
Winning a fight because you out stat another player destroys the concept of skill based PVP, and in a PVE enviroment, out stating another player therefore doing more DPS in no way makes you a better player.
(edited by Kouken.8604)
and the reward for that is?,……….
A bit off topic but your argument doesnt hold water with a zerg.
@Cik
This isn’t real life. People aren’t supposed to play GW2 as a second job to get rewards. This is meant to be entertainment, not another career.
Personally allowing easy(ish) access to full exotics to most players is a perfect system,
Allowing players to heavliy out stat each other would destroy WvW and the way mobs work in zones and discourage skilled players who simply dont have the time,Might not have been your intention, but this sounds like the special Olympics or a peewee baseball game. It screams “lets celebrate mediocrity.” Its a socialist system at best. Lets give everyone a medal for just showing up. There is no opportunity for skilled players to stand out and above those that are not.
It could be argued that cosmetics are that gold medal to strive for, but why not better gear? Why is it ok to grind for cosmetics but not upgrades? From my perspective, people that use this argument are giving a skewed opinion due to their lack of play time to compete with those who do have more play time.
Wow.
So, designing a GAME, that is a piece of entertainment, so that the people who play it can actually enjoy it is “socialist”? To quote a certain movie – “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it does.”
What’s especially laughable is this idea that grinding is equivalent to an Olympic gold medal. Gold medals go to the best of the best – having one proves that you excel in your chosen field. Grinding proves nothing except that you can devote an excessive amount of time to a video game. You don’t have to be especially smart or talented or skilled to grind, you just need to have no job and no social life. Giving rewards to people based on purely on time spent without any regard to skill or merit… that sounds a lot more like socialism and the Marxist concept of the intrinisic value of labour.
Giving the best gear to drooling mouth-breathers who sit there in their basements, grinding while other players are out at work, so said mouth-breathers can ‘win’ with their overpowered gear and feel good about themselves… now THAT’S ‘celebrating mediocrity’.
Bashing on keep doors since 2001.
Rambling insanely at tremayneslaw.wordpress.com since 2010.
Proud member of The Farstar Alliance (http://farstarguild.co.uk) on Gandara (EU) since 2012.
Rambling insanely at tremayneslaw.wordpress.com since 2010.
Proud member of The Farstar Alliance (http://farstarguild.co.uk) on Gandara (EU) since 2012.
There is no opportunity for skilled players to stand out and above those that are not.
What? this makes no sense, if everyone has same level gear then the skilled players shine, as skill is all that matters.
Winning a fight because you out stat another player destroys the concept of skill based PVP, and in a PVE enviroment, out stating another player therefore doing more DPS in no way makes you a better player.
Making PvP only contain cosmetic upgrades is fine. In PvE it gets old fast when there is no sense of progression. I’m not talking about making it huge upgrades and stuff like in WoW but a sense of progression is needed to keep people interested, this isn’t a sandbox game.
How bout fun?
As in all my other posts, scattered across the forum, I can only state my own oppinion.
But I play for the fun. To play with friends. Not to get bling bling. That’s why I am here. I am having a BLAST, playing this game. Walking across the lands and doing stuff, looking at the scenery. Noone gives me shiny epixx for that and I don’t want any.
This is very much a genre that has no need to be statbased. It is reward based, since you DO get rewards for doing stuff, just not often blingbling. Most games in this genre are statbased, thats true. They work well, they are popular. But that doesn’t mean they all have to be.
Taking away the stats from gear (or more, the importance of stats) makes a game more skillbased. It doesn’t matter that your opponent or the player fighting besides you has gear, he did a bazillion dungeon runs for. He wont do anymore damage than you do, unless he can PLAY BETTER, even if you have the same profession.
This is only an issue for people who care about illusionary progression (gear treadmill) and uses MMOs as a “job”.
I’ll go ahead and say that there are much better MMOs for enslaving people into caves with an illusionary carrot to chase while milking money out of them, GW2 is not oriented to these people.
Just like GW1 the PvE is based on getting cool skins and having fun; it’s been a winning formula for GW1 and still is in GW2.
This might surprise you but millions of people played GW1 for 7 years straight without the least shadow of gear treadmill; and those millions are the same that are playing GW2 now, plus other people who were tired of carrot-based MMOs.
So ultimately, you either re-learn to play for fun (in Super Mario I didn’t chase +1 jump shoes, I had fun period!) or move to a MMO that locks you into repeating content so you have the illusion that you’re achieving something.
excatly, fun, experience, gameplay, social, exploration should be the incentives that matter
Personally allowing easy(ish) access to full exotics to most players is a perfect system,
Allowing players to heavliy out stat each other would destroy WvW and the way mobs work in zones and discourage skilled players who simply dont have the time,Might not have been your intention, but this sounds like the special Olympics or a peewee baseball game. It screams “lets celebrate mediocrity.” Its a socialist system at best. Lets give everyone a medal for just showing up. There is no opportunity for skilled players to stand out and above those that are not.
It could be argued that cosmetics are that gold medal to strive for, but why not better gear? Why is it ok to grind for cosmetics but not upgrades? From my perspective, people that use this argument are giving a skewed opinion due to their lack of play time to compete with those who do have more play time.
You can stand out by standing over my corpse every single time to kill me in a pvp encounter due to your superior skill! Oh thats not enough for you? Hmmm we have a problem here.
Didn’t read.
No.
All game enjoyment issues are developer issues. When we buy a steak/cheeseburger/pair of underwear (e.g. luxury item) no sane person blames themselves if the result isn’t enjoyable. No one buys these things HOPING they’ll be enjoyable. They always, always buy them BELIEVING they’ll be enjoyable based on marketing.
If the marketing doesn’t match the deliverable…
Good talk.
Personally allowing easy(ish) access to full exotics to most players is a perfect system,
Allowing players to heavliy out stat each other would destroy WvW and the way mobs work in zones and discourage skilled players who simply dont have the time,Might not have been your intention, but this sounds like the special Olympics or a peewee baseball game. It screams “lets celebrate mediocrity.” Its a socialist system at best. Lets give everyone a medal for just showing up. There is no opportunity for skilled players to stand out and above those that are not.
It could be argued that cosmetics are that gold medal to strive for, but why not better gear? Why is it ok to grind for cosmetics but not upgrades? From my perspective, people that use this argument are giving a skewed opinion due to their lack of play time to compete with those who do have more play time.
Wow.
So, designing a GAME, that is a piece of entertainment, so that the people who play it can actually enjoy it is “socialist”? To quote a certain movie – “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it does.”
What’s especially laughable is this idea that grinding is equivalent to an Olympic gold medal. Gold medals go to the best of the best – having one proves that you excel in your chosen field. Grinding proves nothing except that you can devote an excessive amount of time to a video game. You don’t have to be especially smart or talented or skilled to grind, you just need to have no job and no social life. Giving rewards to people based on purely on time spent without any regard to skill or merit… that sounds a lot more like socialism and the Marxist concept of the intrinisic value of labour.
Giving the best gear to drooling mouth-breathers who sit there in their basements, grinding while other players are out at work, so said mouth-breathers can ‘win’ with their overpowered gear and feel good about themselves… now THAT’S ‘celebrating mediocrity’.
Replace grind with something that requires a min skill lvl to pass and now you’ve got yourself a good game. However the current design promotes the grind. 42 dungeon runs for a cosmetic gear set…….fml.
You can stand out by standing over my corpse every single time to kill me in a pvp encounter due to your superior skill! Oh thats not enough for you? Hmmm we have a problem here.
lol 3 seconds of gratification before I move on to your friend isnt much incentive.
Didn’t read.
No.
All game enjoyment issues are developer issues. When we buy a steak/cheeseburger/pair of underwear (e.g. luxury item) no sane person blames themselves if the result isn’t enjoyable. No one buys these things HOPING they’ll be enjoyable. They always, always buy them BELIEVING they’ll be enjoyable based on marketing.
If the marketing doesn’t match the deliverable…
Good talk.
Marketing strategies usually have a set target audience. When someone who isn’t part of the target audience buys the product, it is pretty pointless to complain that it is not what they wanted.
This is only an issue for people who care about illusionary progression (gear treadmill) and uses MMOs as a “job”.
I’ll go ahead and say that there are much better MMOs for enslaving people into caves with an illusionary carrot to chase while milking money out of them, GW2 is not oriented to these people.
Just like GW1 the PvE is based on getting cool skins and having fun; it’s been a winning formula for GW1 and still is in GW2.
This might surprise you but millions of people played GW1 for 7 years straight without the least shadow of gear treadmill; and those millions are the same that are playing GW2 now, plus other people who were tired of carrot-based MMOs.So ultimately, you either re-learn to play for fun (in Super Mario I didn’t chase +1 jump shoes, I had fun period!) or move to a MMO that locks you into repeating content so you have the illusion that you’re achieving something.
how is the gear treadmill any different from the cosmetic skin treadmill? Refrain from the “its optional” argument if you dont mind.
Gear progression based rewards being the only incentive to play is a community issue, not the developers,
Gaming should be about the journey, but a high % of gamers only care about the reward,
Been reading through complaint threads today and saw one person say,
“I like SPVP but because I already have the best gear I dont see a point doing it”I dunno, fun? balanced skill based competition? skill development? fun?!
Just seems like a massive flaw in peoples mindset, why “grind” a system, most likely not enjoying yourself along the way, just to obtain a set you wont use anymore once youve completed it cause theres nothing else to “gain”?
Personally allowing easy(ish) access to full exotics to most players is a perfect system,
Allowing players to heavliy out stat each other would destroy WvW and the way mobs work in zones and discourage skilled players who simply dont have the time,The grinds for cosmetic rewards is perfect, farming the 30g t3 chestpiece for sylvari atm and cant wait to get it!
The community mindset needs to change not the developers,
And seriously if you want gear based progression so bad, why not play every other mmo ever?
Here’s something you have to realize.
Fun has diminishing returns.
The more you repeat something, the less fun it is.
This is universal across any activity, no matter how fun it is at first, after you do it again and again and again.. it starts to tail off. I thought sex might be the one thing that deviates from that pattern but hey.. only if it’s not the same partner every single time… but anyway.. if you eat a tenderloin steak every single day.. it stops tasting so good.
“fun” and “the journey” stop being enough when you’re left repeating content you’ve already done.
No game can make enough novel content to never have repetition, therefore, extra incentive is needed.
Zapp – 80 Asura Afromancer
Marketing strategies usually have a set target audience. When someone who isn’t part of the target audience buys the product, it is pretty pointless to complain that it is not what they wanted.
ROFLOL, not to be overly sarcastic, but if you watch the GW2 dev and promo vids, as well as the review hype, you would think they were selling front row seats to the second coming or something. The target audience is so broad with so many promises and design philosophies, it could have been directed at just about anyone.
if you eat a tenderloin steak every single day.. it stops tasting so good.
You’ve clearly never eaten at a Brazilian steakhouse.
Should you ever find yourself in the Philadelphia, PA area, might I recommend a place that would change your mind.
I could eat there. Every. Single. Day.
“GW2 takes everything you love about GW1” – M. O’Brien
“We just don’t want players to grind in GW2” – C. Johanson
“The most important thing in any game should be the player” – R. Soesbee
“We just don’t want players to grind in GW2” – C. Johanson
“The most important thing in any game should be the player” – R. Soesbee
“Marketing strategies usually have a set target audience. When someone who isn’t part of the target audience buys the product, it is pretty pointless to complain that it is not what they wanted.”
I wanted a sports car. I was promised a sports car.
I paid for what I believed was a sports car.
A tricycle was delivered.
I seem to have missed something.
if you eat a tenderloin steak every single day.. it stops tasting so good.
You’ve clearly never eaten at a Brazilian steakhouse.
Should you ever find yourself in the Philadelphia, PA area, might I recommend a place that would change your mind.
I could eat there. Every. Single. Day.
I’m going to call your bluff.
Pick your favorite item on the menu, and eat only that, every single day for a month.
You’ll be so sick of it after a week that you’ll want anything but that.
Zapp – 80 Asura Afromancer
“Rewards as incentive is a community issue, not developer”
lol bottom line is… the customer pretty much chooses what developers develop. Thats how they stay in business. Thats how any company stays in business.
I don’t care what MMO it is… if the customer base as a whole is having valid complaints then they need to take that into serious consideration which it doesnt look like they are OR they are just taking their sweet time doing it… which is very dangerous with the short attention span of todays MMO gamer.
so many people simply don’t understand what the RPG in MMORPG means. The definition of it isn’t difficult to grasp but the meaning seems to be elusive to most players.
It means playing a game where you can role play. It means customisation. It’s a fantasy sim. What value a mmorpg when customisation is considered evil; and yes, the gear grind is part of that customisation. Too many people are too caught up in the WoW raid mentality to understand that you don’t need to get things to progress to the next step of something else. You can get it because it progresses your toon. The carrot is not evil.
You guys call this a “carrot”, when all it is is customisation/character progression. Whether that be cosmetic or stats based loot is exactly the same thing. You guys are arguing against the very things you are arguing for.
RPG’s need customisation. Otherwise don’t bother making an MMO. Just create a lobby and a ring for fighting (like gw 1) and let’s not pretend like it is actually anything more than a multiplayer game.
You can not argue against the carrot and progression and say that you are an MMORPG player or even that the game is an MMORPG. As far as “RPG” goes, GW2 is very. very shallow.
Have a go at LOTRO to understand what an MMORPG is and what the RPG part of it means. You may or may not like that game but the RPG elements of it are solid and well thought out. In fact, it could be argued that LOTRO’s world is designed to be more meaningful for explorers despite it offering no tangible rewards.
R . P . G
. . .
Personally allowing easy(ish) access to full exotics to most players is a perfect system. . .Hmmm…I grew-up with the learning that a socialist system is far less than a perfect system.
But that’s me.
Too bad that really isn’t what socialism is…
so many people simply don’t understand what the RPG in MMORPG means. The definition of it isn’t difficult to grasp but the meaning seems to be elusive to most players.
It means playing a game where you can role play. It means customisation. It’s a fantasy sim. What value a mmorpg when customisation is considered evil; and yes, the gear grind is part of that customisation. Too many people are too caught up in the WoW raid mentality to understand that you don’t need to get things to progress to the next step of something else. You can get it because it progresses your toon. The carrot is not evil.
You guys call this a “carrot”, when all it is is customisation/character progression. Whether that be cosmetic or stats based loot is exactly the same thing. You guys are arguing against the very things you are arguing for.
RPG’s need customisation. Otherwise don’t bother making an MMO. Just create a lobby and a ring for fighting (like gw 1) and let’s not pretend like it is actually anything more than a multiplayer game.
You can not argue against the carrot and progression and say that you are an MMORPG player or even that the game is an MMORPG. As far as “RPG” goes, GW2 is very. very shallow.
Have a go at LOTRO to understand what an MMORPG is and what the RPG part of it means. You may or may not like that game but the RPG elements of it are solid and well thought out. In fact, it could be argued that LOTRO’s world is designed to be more meaningful for explorers despite it offering no tangible rewards.
R . P . G
It’s not the gear grind that would make the game better, I mean there are customization options, unless you don’t care if your character looks awful… I’m actually quite happy that the difference between something I can craft/buy and something that I can get out of a dungeon is just skin deep.
It’s that the skins are not universally appealing, so for someone who doesn’t want a skin, there’s no reason to do the challenging content 30+ times.
I’m advocating other rewards should be found for those people. Currency is a start, or lodestones/ectoplasms.
Zapp – 80 Asura Afromancer
playing starcraft gets you absolutely nothing (unless youre pro) and people still play it cuz its a good game
likewise playing counterstrike also gets you nothing but personal mad skillz
this games dungeons arent on the level of either of these games
playing starcraft gets you absolutely nothing (unless youre pro) and people still play it cuz its a good game
likewise playing counterstrike also gets you nothing but personal mad skillz
this games dungeons arent on the level of either of these games
SW2 isnt bugged out on release. SW2 Isn’t an MMO aimed at an MMO player base.
You just can’t compare this game to SW2, CS, marvel vs capcom, pacman….w/e!
It is proven through past success that the vertical progress and competition of collecting gear to stand out….is highly addicting and a lot more people like it than dont. This game just does not have the content at the moment to hook a playerbase that is full on exotics with nothing else to do but grind wvw/spvp
There is no opportunity for skilled players to stand out and above those that are not.
What? this makes no sense, if everyone has same level gear then the skilled players shine, as skill is all that matters.
Winning a fight because you out stat another player destroys the concept of skill based PVP, and in a PVE enviroment, out stating another player therefore doing more DPS in no way makes you a better player.Making PvP only contain cosmetic upgrades is fine. In PvE it gets old fast when there is no sense of progression. I’m not talking about making it huge upgrades and stuff like in WoW but a sense of progression is needed to keep people interested, this isn’t a sandbox game.
The issue is that many MMO gamers are set in the mentality that at the level cap, progression is directly tied to getting better gear. If a developer could create a sense of progression without leaning on the gear treadmill, they would do the entire MMO genre a massive service.
Personally, I’d like to see a game that updates its storyline more often than once a year.
Im not trying to say that a gear progression is a bad thing, of course it works for countless RPGs/MMO’s,
I just dont understand that people seem lost without it, and condemn this amazing game for not having it, theres so much fun to be had, but all people seem to care about is loot loot loot,
And for all those people, there are many many alternative game choices, dont expect the developers to deviate from their image just to satisfy your simple mindset.
From my perspective, people that use this argument are giving a skewed opinion due to their lack of play time to compete with those who do have more play time.
That can easily be reversed.
From my perspective, people who use your argument are people who possess more time than skill and don’t want that exposed when they can no longer dominate because they had the time to grind for stat based items. Now they have to rely on their skill only and it’s failing them.
Overlord Of [NAKY]
SOS Spy Team Commander [SPY]
SOS Spy Team Commander [SPY]
Gaming should be about the journey, but a high % of gamers only care about the reward,
You realize you’re contradicting yourself.
The grinds for cosmetic rewards is perfect, farming the 30g t3 chestpiece for sylvari atm and cant wait to get it!
Gonna go out on a limb and say your grinding for the 30g t3 gear isn’t about the journey, it’s about the reward.
I’m perfectly fine with the end game stuff as it is, I don’t mind spending a month or two getting them but the state of the game right now it’s near impossible. Dungeons aren’t worth running, cost of doing stuff is too high, and the economy is broken. It’s not impossible but atm it is incredibly difficult or frustrating.
(edited by Write.3192)
I just dont understand that people seem lost without it, and condemn this amazing game for not having it, theres so much fun to be had, but all people seem to care about is loot loot loot,
most people play mmo’s for loot… not for character skins. Skills make PvP fun…but so does the gear you collect which also improves your character. They took out a large chunk of the equation. People are getting bored quicker now. It doesnt work.
Collecting new loot is fun as hell. The majority of any MMO customer base will agree with that.
People are getting bored quicker now. It doesnt work.
Collecting new loot is fun as hell. The majority of any MMO customer base will agree with that.
Maybe for some of you.
I was just in WvW. Tons of people having fun. No one crying about their lack of loot or how bad the game is because they can’t outstat the other side.
Just people running around slaughtering each other and having fun doing it.
Overlord Of [NAKY]
SOS Spy Team Commander [SPY]
SOS Spy Team Commander [SPY]
Im more reward centered, a carrot on a stick player.
Maybe its my adhd, but if something is only meant for fun and nothing else, it wont hold my attention for long at all.
If theres no ultimate goal in mind, i just drift off and do something else, because it seems like a waste of time, because for me if you arent working towards something, then it isnt fun.
People are getting bored quicker now. It doesnt work.
Collecting new loot is fun as hell. The majority of any MMO customer base will agree with that.
Maybe for some of you.
I was just in WvW. Tons of people having fun. No one crying about their lack of loot or how bad the game is because they can’t outstat the other side.
Just people running around slaughtering each other and having fun doing it.
Give it another few months… it will only last so long before people get bored with the same maps and limited results. “Reward” need to equal or be better than “effort” and as time goes on… like someone already said…fun has diminishing returns.
Dont get me wrong though… im not saying wvw isnt fun. I’m just saying that they are fighting an uphill battle removing that entire loot aspect from an mmo. Horizontal progression was a horrible idea for a player base that has proven historically that vertical is what keeps long term attention. People LOVE to brag and compete for new gear, progression, skill, and even for smaller things like max dmg/healing etc. GW2 Doesnt leave a whole lot left compared to other MMO’s.
Not only that but the track records for new mmos the past 4-5 years isnt exactly stellar. They tried way too hard to reinvent the wheel.
@Cik
This isn’t real life. People aren’t supposed to play GW2 as a second job to get rewards. This is meant to be entertainment, not another career.
Real-life shouldn’t be a socialist utopian either, though i can understand where some folks might expect that. . .~47%. But most strive for accomplishments and the personal rewards and tangible achievements that come with it.
Entertainment doesn’t have to be a second job; that is unless one chooses to think that anything that requires effort for a tangible reward that distinguishes one from another is a chore, and that which most successful folks are able to achieve within a virtual entertainment space is something that should be gifted to everyone, or in which everything should be homogenized to quell the minority disappointment in feeling inferior about not being able to achieve.
That’s all.
Im more reward centered, a carrot on a stick player.
and there is nothing wrong with that at all…. people on these boards like to make it seem like you are broken or “wrong” if you think like this.
It is human nature to be competitive and part of what makes ANY mmo successful is character development and progression. This game almost has 0 of that after a very short time. End game is very limited and repetitive.
I see it being more geared toward casual play vs the real competitive scene imo
Im more reward centered, a carrot on a stick player.
and there is nothing wrong with that at all….
While true, there is something wrong with wanting to completely alter a game that was made from the ground up to cater to a demographic whose idea of a good game runs opposite to that mindset.
It’d be a lot like going to the Street Fighter forums on Capcom-Unity and going “This game sucks because it’s not 3D, and I’m more of a 3D fighter player, so you should rebuild the game to cater to what I want instead of yada yada”.
Like rock and metal remixes of video game music? Check out my site and get your headbang on!
Also, check out Hardcore Adventure Box: World 1, World 2, Lost Sessions
Main Character: Dathius Eventide | Say “hi” to the Tribulation Clouds for me. :)
Also, check out Hardcore Adventure Box: World 1, World 2, Lost Sessions
Main Character: Dathius Eventide | Say “hi” to the Tribulation Clouds for me. :)
Im more reward centered, a carrot on a stick player.
and there is nothing wrong with that at all….
While true, there is something wrong with wanting to completely alter a game that was made from the ground up to cater to a demographic whose idea of a good game runs opposite to that mindset.
It’d be a lot like going to the Street Fighter forums on Capcom-Unity and going “This game sucks because it’s not 3D, and I’m more of a 3D fighter player, so you should rebuild the game to cater to what I want instead of yada yada”.
They said a lot of things that this game “would be” but it is not, though.
I’m not saying they should add a dungeon finder and start doing vertical progression but if they don’t then they better fix the little content they actually have. The content they have is so broken it really doesnt leave much room for anything else. The masses are waiting for patches to fix content or broken class mechanics.
This game was not supposed to have a grind. This game was also not supposed to have a cookie cutter aspect. This game has a bigger grind with less rewards than any other mmo ive played in quite awhile. It also has more of a pigeon holed feeling too.
@Cik
This isn’t real life. People aren’t supposed to play GW2 as a second job to get rewards. This is meant to be entertainment, not another career.Real-life shouldn’t be a socialist utopian either, though i can understand where some folks might expect that. . .~47%. But most strive for accomplishments and the personal rewards and tangible achievements that come with it.
Entertainment doesn’t have to be a second job; that is unless one chooses to think that anything that requires effort for a tangible reward that distinguishes one from another is a chore, and that which most successful folks are able to achieve within a virtual entertainment space is something that should be gifted to everyone, or in which everything should be homogenized to quell the minority disappointment in feeling inferior about not being able to achieve.
That’s all.
Bring the same gear as everyone else to PVP and prove you know how to fight. Nothing wrong with that.
Overlord Of [NAKY]
SOS Spy Team Commander [SPY]
SOS Spy Team Commander [SPY]
Bring the same gear as everyone else to PVP and prove you know how to fight. Nothing wrong with that.
But Porky, if I played longer, I should be able to beat people that are better than me!
I can’t believe people would actually say that kind of stuff. It’s actually pretty funny.
Like rock and metal remixes of video game music? Check out my site and get your headbang on!
Also, check out Hardcore Adventure Box: World 1, World 2, Lost Sessions
Main Character: Dathius Eventide | Say “hi” to the Tribulation Clouds for me. :)
Also, check out Hardcore Adventure Box: World 1, World 2, Lost Sessions
Main Character: Dathius Eventide | Say “hi” to the Tribulation Clouds for me. :)
Bring the same gear as everyone else to PVP and prove you know how to fight. Nothing wrong with that.
This argument is old. Gear vs skill….
Any halfway decent player knows when gear is carrying the player. They also know when a player is talented and can tear it up. Regardless of the gear they are wearing. A lot of people actually like the challenge of taking down top geared players who have the skill to top it off. Its also satisfying to take down a high geared player who is horrible… Balancing out everyone to skill alone is almost too bland and is comparable to an FPS….and most people play MMO’s for character progression. Thats one of the huge differences between FPS’s and MMO’s.
Im not going to argue which is more fun acquiring the gear or the skill…to each his own… but to completely remove one of those factors is bad news and leave one big long term problem that is already surfacing. Boredom.
The stat plateau is fine as it is. The problem is that dungeon and karma armor are too much of a grind for anyone to do it. Why would I do 30-40 runs of the same dungeon when I could just as well play some single-player RPG where I can get the look I want for my character far more easily? I don’t want dungeon armor because I want to feel like a special snowflake, but because the way my character looks matters to me. Yes, I know everyone thinks that if someone wants a prestige set they probably just want to show off, but that’s not the case with everyone.
So, there you go, the huge grind for karma and dungeon sets doesn’t only impede the competitive part of PvE, but also the RP part of the game. What say you to that?
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
So I don’t understand why you bought GW2.
Were you under the impression that there was a long gear grind available that would differentiate you from the people who have less time than you by means of bigger stats?
A simple check of the GW2 site, the articles, the dev blogs, and the videos would have told you this wasn’t the game for you.
I’m not trying to be mean, but I don’t understand some of you.
The game’s design concept was clear: No lengthy grind for items with stats. If you wanted to look different from everyone there would be a grind available for you, but the top level items stat-wise would be available to all without a lengthy grind.
This was not a secret, nor was it ambiguous.
Overlord Of [NAKY]
SOS Spy Team Commander [SPY]
SOS Spy Team Commander [SPY]
People keep saying that Anet need to add a treadmill or people will leave, they need to add this to keep people addicted.
I’m struggling to see why people want to be addicted themselves, but I’m REALLY struggling to see how its Anets problem. They aren’t charging a monthly fee here, people taking a break, or only playing occasionally is hardly going to bankrupt them. If after playing for a hundred plus hours and having seen every bit of content in the game you still aren’t going to buy the expansions then I think you might be too demanding an audience to be worth courting.
If it’s not worth doing for the intrinsic rewards you should stop doing it. And if you would have done it for the loot then you should thank Anet for breaking you out of that cycle. Go do something that offers an actual reward rather than an illusion. Because if you think that getting epic loot for your time means you aren’t wasting it you absolutely could not be more wrong.
@Porky Cosmetics weren’t supposed to feel like a grind either and I really hope they’ll actually fix it like Jon Peters said. I agree on the other points though. It was well known that there would be a stat plateau, just like there was in Guild Wars 1. If that plateau didn’t exist, the game would turn into WoW 2.0, with the same annoying gear grinds over and over again.
It seems like some people just came to this game expecting it to be WoW with new graphics, some dynamic content and a different setting. It’s not. Sure, the game has its problems in the endgame and I’ve been quite vocal about them (the dungeon armor grind, the karma armor grind, the lack of rewards etc.), but making it play like WoW would definitely not solve them.
Aed f’haeil moen Hirjeth taenverde.
So I don’t understand why you bought GW2.
Were you under the impression that there was a long gear grind available that would differentiate you from the people who have less time than you by means of bigger stats?
A simple check of the GW2 site, the articles, the dev blogs, and the videos would have told you this wasn’t the game for you.
I’m not trying to be mean, but I don’t understand some of you.
The game’s design concept was clear: No lengthy grind for items with stats. If you wanted to look different from everyone there would be a grind available for you, but the top level items stat-wise would be available to all without a lengthy grind.
This was not a secret, nor was it ambiguous.
I bought the game with the mindset I have had with every other failed MMO that i have played in the past 4-5 years. “meh….$60 is well spent compared to console if it lasts me 2-3 months”
Expect the worst and hope for the best.
I was a bit curious about how it would turn out also. I am not disappointed about the core game although rewards could be MUCH better. I am disappointed with how the customer service and dev reaction times turned out.
Communication has dropped significantly. Patches are spaced out further and they are more quick to nerf than buff where needed even in desperate areas. Priorities don’t seem to be straight. Slow reaction to key issues leads to boredom in the player base and that kills mmo’s. If you are going to be slow at fixing the issues then you better be sure that the player base has something to keep them busy and at the moment…Orr is a disgrace.