(edited by HiddenNick.7206)
Rewards fundamentally flawed
You mean flawed.
But I get your point.
Karma is as abundant as air, and as useless as the Kardashians.
The flaw at work here is located within the players, not the game.
It’s human nature to find the fastest/easiest path and exploit it… there’s very little any game dev can do to combat this, players will always find a way.
GamersWithJobs [GWJ]
Northern Shiverpeaks
Northern Shiverpeaks
and yet TP flipping gives 10X to 100X more rewards….that is paid by normal players.
GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.
Just let the rewards flow.
Dear A-net: Please nerf rock. Paper is fine
~Sincerely, Scissors
~Sincerely, Scissors
The flaw at work here is located within the players, not the game.
It’s human nature to find the fastest/easiest path and exploit it… there’s very little any game dev can do to combat this, players will always find a way.
For example in WoW you get additional reward for completing random dungeon – this prevents dungeons(paths) from getting abandoned. And it’s just an example… You can do a lot to fix this kind of issues.
that doesn’t really fix anything, it only changes the math.
does this additional reward offset the extra time it’ll take to do today’s path in comparison to the current optimum path? if so, then it simply becomes the new optimum path.
no matter what, a portion of the player base will always chase the most efficient/rewarding activity. devs can change what that actually is but not the player’s mindset itself.
GamersWithJobs [GWJ]
Northern Shiverpeaks
Northern Shiverpeaks
The flaw at work here is located within the players, not the game.
It’s human nature to find the fastest/easiest path and exploit it… there’s very little any game dev can do to combat this, players will always find a way.
Tbh I have to disagree.
You know that JP in Malchors leap? The one right at the bottom, which takes at least half an hour even if you get good at it? Why bother when you can get the same reward for doing the other one which takes 5 minutes?
Tequatl also suffers from this and that’s why in many servers he’s kinda getting ignored after maybe one or two hits in a day. He’s not giving much of a reward, aside from 1 or 2 minis between a hundred people and what’s pretty much only 1 ascended weapon. The great feeling of conquest is self-staling after the first time you kill him – how quickly, varies from player to player. But loot is very important in proportion to people’s motivations to kill things.
If they make content, they need to make it rewarding enough. Otherwise really no one will do them. Or they will take the path easiest to the same result.
I ? Karkas.
The problems is with the players, not the system itself.
Imagine DungeonA in which Path1 and Path3 are easier than Path2. They currently offer the same gold reward, however, since Path2 is harder it should give a higher reward. Now comes the real question, how much higher? You can’t exactly quantify “harder” because the degree of difficulty varies with the party composition / player skill.
Now imagine a few months later, some skill balancing happens, some theorycrafting by the dungeon running community and they find a way to make Path2 faster/easier than Path1 or Path3. Should they revert the change now? Even if they said they would do it, I’m not confident they can pull it off. See how long it took to revamp the dungeons? Yeah, quite a long time.
I made a suggestion a long time ago, to add a feature from Guild Wars 1, a Dungeon Master’s Guide.
It’s a book that has an empty entry for each dungeon in the game, so that’s 33 entries for Guild Wars 2, including Story Mode. Each entry is “filled” when the player finishes a dungeon for the first time, it can be an excellent way to add some much needed Lore/Story, giving a brief description of the enemies and main antagonists encountered in each dungeon. It can also act as a Quest Journal of sorts.
Then, the players can exchange the book at various completion levels, for rewards. Much like a repeatable Dungeon Master title, but with a great reward in the end.
For Jumping Puzzles it’s even easier. The main reason they don’t want to give greater rewards to JP chests is that you can “park” a character there and log him everyday to get the rewards without doing the puzzle. That’s their main excuse as said somewhere on these forums (too lazy to find it now)
Solutions:
A) Make an Explorer’s Handbook book, like the Dungeon Master’s Guide above, that contains all JPs and add an extra reward for doing them all
In case the devs don’t like the book idea
B) They could add a “Flag” at the start of each Jumping Puzzle that is removed when you switch zones or relog. Now, only attuned players can open the final puzzle chest, preventing the relog/parking issue.
An easy ‘fix’ would be to adjust rewards based on the popularity of the content. Everyone runs the dungeon A but almost nobody runs dungeon B? Nerf the loot in A, buff the loot in B. Recalculate every n hours. You can even have a basic UI to show which encounters are most rewarding. Basically, diminishing returns on global scale. Doesn’t need much work to implement also.
Why bother when you can get the same reward for doing the other one which takes 5 minutes?
well there’s two options:
-either you do the longer one because you enjoy the longer one.
-or, you do the one that takes 5 minutes because you’re prioritizing rewards over game play.
players that prioritize rewards will always chose whatever will reward them the most for the least amount of effort/time.
If they make content, they need to make it rewarding enough.
good content should be its own reward. Too many players require a bribe to try out new content.
GamersWithJobs [GWJ]
Northern Shiverpeaks
Northern Shiverpeaks
Nerf the loot in A, buff the loot in B. Recalculate every n hours. You can even have a basic UI to show which encounters are most rewarding. Basically, diminishing returns on global scale. Doesn’t need much work to implement also.
It’s funny how you say it doesn’t need much work…
If they make content, they need to make it rewarding enough.
good content should be its own reward. Too many players require a bribe to try out new content.
Dude… If don’t care about the rewards then you shouldn’t be in this discussion! It’s not an issue for you! So just stop interrupting!
My personal prioritizing of rewards vs gameplay hasn’t really impacted the legitimacy or validity of my comments in this thread. I am participating in good faith, not ‘interrupting’.
GamersWithJobs [GWJ]
Northern Shiverpeaks
Northern Shiverpeaks
I made a suggestion a long time ago, to add a feature from Guild Wars 1, a Dungeon Master’s Guide.
It’s a book that has an empty entry for each dungeon in the game, so that’s 33 entries for Guild Wars 2, including Story Mode. Each entry is “filled” when the player finishes a dungeon for the first time, it can be an excellent way to add some much needed Lore/Story, giving a brief description of the enemies and main antagonists encountered in each dungeon. It can also act as a Quest Journal of sorts.
Then, the players can exchange the book at various completion levels, for rewards. Much like a repeatable Dungeon Master title, but with a great reward in the end.
I wonder why it didn’t make into the game… That’s one solution that would actually work.
I made a suggestion a long time ago, to add a feature from Guild Wars 1, a Dungeon Master’s Guide.
It’s a book that has an empty entry for each dungeon in the game, so that’s 33 entries for Guild Wars 2, including Story Mode. Each entry is “filled” when the player finishes a dungeon for the first time, it can be an excellent way to add some much needed Lore/Story, giving a brief description of the enemies and main antagonists encountered in each dungeon. It can also act as a Quest Journal of sorts.
Then, the players can exchange the book at various completion levels, for rewards. Much like a repeatable Dungeon Master title, but with a great reward in the end.
I wonder why it didn’t make into the game… That’s one solution that would actually work.
Probably because it was suggested by a player.
We need to have selectable difficulty levels for Hero Point Challenges
Nerf the loot in A, buff the loot in B. Recalculate every n hours. You can even have a basic UI to show which encounters are most rewarding. Basically, diminishing returns on global scale. Doesn’t need much work to implement also.
It’s funny how you say it doesn’t need much work…
Because it doesn’t. They already should have statistics gathering mechanics in place (if they don’t then I will be very disappointed). Every day you can collect the data and compute the how many player received rewards from this in the encounter. Then rank the encounters based on this score and use the rank to modify the loot table. The particular way on how the loot table should be modified can require some brainstorming but its not rocket science. And depending on who good their UI layer API is, implementing a basic UI should be trivial.
P.S. Yes, I am a programmer.