Guild Wars 2

Prior to the recent update and the nerf to the dungeons loot, experience, and buffs to the mobs i disliked the lack of proper incentives for the amount of risk involved.

Champions not dropping anything useful, constantly getting under leveled items (not items at my level like i was promised).

I play a game to be rewarded for the amount of effort i put into it, but i do not feel like my time is being properly rewarded. Some people will say well you can have “Fun” that’s a reward in itself, sure it has its place, but i expect more then just a challenging experience. If i just wanted to kill stuff for “fun’s” sake i would go find that game and have “fun”.

GW2 has been advertised as a MMORPG and when i get into MMORPGs i have certain expectations about it. My most primary expectation is being compensated for the amount of effort i put into the game.

This needs to be addressed, this needs to be fixed, there is way too much choice out there for my effort. I would prefer to stay with GW2, i enjoy a lot of it, but i dislike spending large amounts of frustration only to be handed some butter and a few copper.

Dradiin.8935:

I play a game to be rewarded for the amount of effort i put into it, but i do not feel like my time is being properly rewarded. Some people will say well you can have “Fun” that’s a reward in itself, sure it has its place, but i expect more then just a challenging experience. If i just wanted to kill stuff for “fun’s” sake i would go find that game and have “fun”.

GW2 has been advertised as a MMORPG and when i get into MMORPGs i have certain expectations about it. My most primary expectation is being compensated for the amount of effort i put into the game.

Seriously, ANET made all of this very clear for the past couple of years, but it was made especially clear in the past 6 months. What you want “fixed” is, pardon the cliche, a fully explained and established feature of the game. GW2 is simply not the kind of game you want; it doesn’t offer anyone superior rewards for added time, effort, or risk.

I know that’s difficult for many to wrap their minds around, but it’s really just supposed to be that way.

I don’t think he particularly needs a treadmill, it’s the fact that doing anything barely gives you any money.

I haven’t once gone over 2 gold, there’s way too many gold sinks, not enough ways to make gold.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Dradiin.8935:

I play a game to be rewarded for the amount of effort i put into it, but i do not feel like my time is being properly rewarded. Some people will say well you can have “Fun” that’s a reward in itself, sure it has its place, but i expect more then just a challenging experience. If i just wanted to kill stuff for “fun’s” sake i would go find that game and have “fun”.

GW2 has been advertised as a MMORPG and when i get into MMORPGs i have certain expectations about it. My most primary expectation is being compensated for the amount of effort i put into the game.

Seriously, ANET made all of this very clear for the past couple of years, but it was made especially clear in the past 6 months. What you want “fixed” is, pardon the cliche, a fully explained and established feature of the game. GW2 is simply not the kind of game you want; it doesn’t offer anyone superior rewards for added time, effort, or risk.

I know that’s difficult for many to wrap their minds around, but it’s really just supposed to be that way.

I was never asking for superior rewards, i was asking for some kind of reward….. something anything, doing an event and helping Gort only to get to mine a stupid copper mine is not a reward, its an insult.

What you are describing is not what i was describing.

I do not want in anyway shape or form gear progression, i want to be rewarded for my time (if even slightly) so please stop with the hysterics and make sure to read what i said first.

Untouch.2541:

I don’t think he particularly needs a treadmill, it’s the fact that doing anything barely gives you any money.

I haven’t once gone over 2 gold, there’s way too many gold sinks, not enough ways to make gold.

Thank you !

I appreciate you reading my post before replying, its such a helpful way to contribute to a gaming community.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Dradiin.8935:

I play a game to be rewarded for the amount of effort i put into it, but i do not feel like my time is being properly rewarded. Some people will say well you can have “Fun” that’s a reward in itself, sure it has its place, but i expect more then just a challenging experience. If i just wanted to kill stuff for “fun’s” sake i would go find that game and have “fun”.

GW2 has been advertised as a MMORPG and when i get into MMORPGs i have certain expectations about it. My most primary expectation is being compensated for the amount of effort i put into the game.

Seriously, ANET made all of this very clear for the past couple of years, but it was made especially clear in the past 6 months. What you want “fixed” is, pardon the cliche, a fully explained and established feature of the game. GW2 is simply not the kind of game you want; it doesn’t offer anyone superior rewards for added time, effort, or risk.

I know that’s difficult for many to wrap their minds around, but it’s really just supposed to be that way.

I don’t think this is true at all.

There’s no reason a Champion mob should be giving basically 10% more than what a normal mob gives in xp/loot.

This game really does have a screwed up risk/reward ratio.

If I find myself taking on a champion mob I don’t want it to be a waste of time. Atleast drop a guaranteed blue item (not like those are worth much) and a couple supply pouches. Something.

Doing stuff “just for fun” doesn’t cut it in MMORPG’s. Part of the mmorpg or rpg experience is progression, getting loot, and being rewarded for your hard effort/challenges. Having fun taking on a hard boss or something is great, it can be fun for the first few times, but if it’s not in the least bit rewarding, I would never want to do it ever again. There’s nothing wrong with having fun with something AND being rewarded, makes it extra fun.

I saw no loot nerfs and no mob buffs, also they didn’t nerf it across the board, if you choose to run the same dungeon repeatedly in under a window of what I would assume is 20 minutes you will see a decline in the end BONUS experience and silver.

If however you choose to do a different explorable path, or a different dungeon altogether THERE IS NO NERF.
They said this was to deter speed farming only. Not dungeoning.

But great way to extrapolate.

“SwagMan said :
I saw no loot nerfs and no mob buffs, also they didn’t nerf it across the board, if you choose to run the same dungeon repeatedly in under a window of what I would assume is 20 minutes you will see a decline in the end BONUS experience and silver.
If however you choose to do a different explorable path, or a different dungeon altogether THERE IS NO NERF.
They said this was to deter speed farming only. Not dungeoning.
But great way to extrapolate.”

Umm i only added in the new recent update as a point of order for the rest of my post, never was my post directed only towards dungeons as a risk vs. reward, i am referring to the entire PvE process and how you can put a large amount of effort into doing some events, and get next to nothing of value from it.

Dradiin.8935:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Dradiin.8935:

I play a game to be rewarded for the amount of effort i put into it, but i do not feel like my time is being properly rewarded. Some people will say well you can have “Fun” that’s a reward in itself, sure it has its place, but i expect more then just a challenging experience. If i just wanted to kill stuff for “fun’s” sake i would go find that game and have “fun”.

GW2 has been advertised as a MMORPG and when i get into MMORPGs i have certain expectations about it. My most primary expectation is being compensated for the amount of effort i put into the game.

Seriously, ANET made all of this very clear for the past couple of years, but it was made especially clear in the past 6 months. What you want “fixed” is, pardon the cliche, a fully explained and established feature of the game. GW2 is simply not the kind of game you want; it doesn’t offer anyone superior rewards for added time, effort, or risk.

I know that’s difficult for many to wrap their minds around, but it’s really just supposed to be that way.

I was never asking for superior rewards, i was asking for some kind of reward….. something anything, doing an event and helping Gort only to get to mine a stupid copper mine is not a reward, its an insult.

What you are describing is not what i was describing.

I do not want in anyway shape or form gear progression, i want to be rewarded for my time (if even slightly) so please stop with the hysterics and make sure to read what i said first.

I didn’t say you wanted gear progression. You want rewards to match your effort (time, risk), which would mean superior (more gold, which is a factual advantage, not a cosmetic one) for superior effort (more time, risk). This isn’t that kind of game. It’s not about rewarding superior effort with superior rewards, whether that means “better gear” or “more gold”.

This was made abundantly clear in the design philosophy of the game; you do not get superior rewards for superior effort. You get cosmetic rewards for superior effort. Gold is not a cosmetic reward.

“Lol stop being so entitled this isn’t WoW!”

Knote.2904:

There’s no reason a Champion mob should be giving basically 10% more than what a normal mob gives in xp/loot.

Sure there is: it’s called adhering to your game design philosophy.

Knote.2904:

This game really does have a screwed up risk/reward ratio.

If by “screwed up” you mean “unlike most MMOGs on the market”, you are correct, and that difference was made abundantly clear.

Knote.2904:

If I find myself taking on a champion mob I don’t want it to be a waste of time.

If it is a “waste of time” because you are not being compensated more (read: superior) than what anyone else does in the game, then you’re playing the wrong game. Please note that you’ve pretty much defined everything in the game as a “waste of time” if you don’t feel you are being “properly” compensated for it with loot.

GW2 is not a “superior reward” or “risk= reward” game when it comes to anything other than cosmetics or a sense of fun, adventure, accomplishment, and enjoyment. You do not get superior, game-functional rewards for added effort or risk in GW2. Their anti-farming code and dungeon loot restrictions drive this point home that this is their philosophy, in case you missed it for the past couple of years.

Knote.2904:

At least drop a guaranteed blue item (not like those are worth much) and a couple supply pouches. Something.

You do get something – the same thing everyone else gets for whatever they are doing. You just think you’re entitled to more than they get because of your particular playstyle, and because of what you in particular enjoy doing.

Knote.2904:

Doing stuff “just for fun” doesn’t cut it in MMORPG’s.

Apparently, you had zero info about ANet, GW1 or GW2 before purchasing. That is, in a nutshell, their design philosophy. Do stuff for fun, and get equal rewards for basically whatever you enjoy doing. I’m sorry you didn’t get the memo.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Dradiin.8935:

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Dradiin.8935:

I play a game to be rewarded for the amount of effort i put into it, but i do not feel like my time is being properly rewarded. Some people will say well you can have “Fun” that’s a reward in itself, sure it has its place, but i expect more then just a challenging experience. If i just wanted to kill stuff for “fun’s” sake i would go find that game and have “fun”.

GW2 has been advertised as a MMORPG and when i get into MMORPGs i have certain expectations about it. My most primary expectation is being compensated for the amount of effort i put into the game.

Seriously, ANET made all of this very clear for the past couple of years, but it was made especially clear in the past 6 months. What you want “fixed” is, pardon the cliche, a fully explained and established feature of the game. GW2 is simply not the kind of game you want; it doesn’t offer anyone superior rewards for added time, effort, or risk.

I know that’s difficult for many to wrap their minds around, but it’s really just supposed to be that way.

I was never asking for superior rewards, i was asking for some kind of reward….. something anything, doing an event and helping Gort only to get to mine a stupid copper mine is not a reward, its an insult.

What you are describing is not what i was describing.

I do not want in anyway shape or form gear progression, i want to be rewarded for my time (if even slightly) so please stop with the hysterics and make sure to read what i said first.

I didn’t say you wanted gear progression. You want rewards to match your effort (time, risk), which would mean superior (more gold, which is a factual advantage, not a cosmetic one) for superior effort (more time, risk). This isn’t that kind of game. It’s not about rewarding superior effort with superior rewards, whether that means “better gear” or “more gold”.

This was made abundantly clear in the design philosophy of the game; you do not get superior rewards for superior effort. You get cosmetic rewards for superior effort. Gold is not a cosmetic reward.

You are still not getting it at all, i do not want superior rewards for superior effort, i want some reward for effort involved, i do not want to spend 5-10 minutes with deaths and runs back and everything an event entails only to get to the end and get NADA. I am asking for a reward for the time investment i made for an event, especially all of the champions all over the world.

I do not want a gold item to drop for killing a champion in a grp, i want something to drop, more than just silly butter, there needs to be some sort of reward that makes me go, “Wow that was fun and i get a bit of something for the effort i put into it”.

I know you want to pigeon hole me into a WoW type MMO player, thats not what i am looking for in anyway, all i am asking is for a reward to fit the risk i took.

Dradiin:

You don’t get loot from every creature you kill in the world. Even fighting regular creatures, you can end up at a financial loss to repairs and waypoint expense. Why should champion creatures be any different?

Untouch.2541:

I haven’t once gone over 2 gold, there’s way too many gold sinks, not enough ways to make gold.

Why do you feel the need to have a big pile of gold? I’ve never had more than 3G at any given time, but I have all my trait books, I bought that silly cooks outfit partially with gems I got with gold. I’ve upgraded my weapons and armor fairly regularly and experimented with some of the different runes. I’ve leveled my crafting skills halfway up. I bought a piece of cultural armor I liked the look of. I take way points when I feel like it and can always afford my repair costs. I’ve given my alts some start-up funds and contributed to my guild so we could get a commander book for WvW. I really haven’t felt poor.

I think the problem here is that a gold in this game is much more valuable than a gold in other MMOs and so our sense of scale is off. What would you rather have 100 Yen or 1 Euro?

Stop saying this is not a game about rewards. It goes far beyond that. When you get more out of killing random easy mobs for 1 hour than for beating a 2 hour long instance, there is something wrong with the ballance.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Untouch.2541:

I haven’t once gone over 2 gold, there’s way too many gold sinks, not enough ways to make gold.

Why do you feel the need to have a big pile of gold? I’ve never had more than 3G at any given time, but I have all my trait books, I bought that silly cooks outfit partially with gems I got with gold. I’ve upgraded my weapons and armor fairly regularly and experimented with some of the different runes. I’ve leveled my crafting skills halfway up. I bought a piece of cultural armor I liked the look of. I take way points when I feel like it and can always afford my repair costs. I’ve given my alts some start-up funds and contributed to my guild so we could get a commander book for WvW. I really haven’t felt poor.

I think the problem here is that a gold in this game is much more valuable than a gold in other MMOs and so our sense of scale is off. What would you rather have 100 Yen or 1 Euro?

Because exotics, crafting and legendaries.

I agree that the rewards are sometimes (not always but sometimes) oddly low. I suspect Anet have put a throttle on rewards at the start of the game to try and keep a tight rein on the economy. I think they’ve reckoned for some headroom and rewards will improve.

Hmm…. no reward? So what’s the XP, Karma, and Gold I get added to my character after an event? In dungeons, I’ve never gotten an empty chest.

To the contrary, I found a veteran troll the other day and decided to kill him, got two gold weapons and found a chest behind him… too bad I wasn’t rewarded.

After an event? We are talking about hard content not giving rewards. Zerging events does grant rewards.

Wintyre Fraust.6534:

Knote.2904:

There’s no reason a Champion mob should be giving basically 10% more than what a normal mob gives in xp/loot.

Sure there is: it’s called adhering to your game design philosophy.

Knote.2904:

This game really does have a screwed up risk/reward ratio.

If by “screwed up” you mean “unlike most MMOGs on the market”, you are correct, and that difference was made abundantly clear.

Knote.2904:

If I find myself taking on a champion mob I don’t want it to be a waste of time.

If it is a “waste of time” because you are not being compensated more (read: superior) than what anyone else does in the game, then you’re playing the wrong game. Please note that you’ve pretty much defined everything in the game as a “waste of time” if you don’t feel you are being “properly” compensated for it with loot.

GW2 is not a “superior reward” or “risk= reward” game when it comes to anything other than cosmetics or a sense of fun, adventure, accomplishment, and enjoyment. You do not get superior, game-functional rewards for added effort or risk in GW2. Their anti-farming code and dungeon loot restrictions drive this point home that this is their philosophy, in case you missed it for the past couple of years.

Knote.2904:

At least drop a guaranteed blue item (not like those are worth much) and a couple supply pouches. Something.

You do get something – the same thing everyone else gets for whatever they are doing. You just think you’re entitled to more than they get because of your particular playstyle, and because of what you in particular enjoy doing.

LOL ok your rebuttal makes no sense whatsoever. How does me wanting a higher difficulty mob reward more loot make me selfish or reward just me? I’m not going out of my way to farm only Champion mobs, I wouldn’t be gaining more than anyone else. If they buffed the rewards from harder mobs that affects everyone. Hell, even if champion mobs were given a boost in loot they still wouldn’t be “worth it” in terms of pure loot grinding, not that I’m asking for them to be.

If their game philosophy was : Kill weak mobs, ignore big mobs because weak mobs are far more rewarding, then that is a ridiculous philosophy and encourages farming mindlessly and discourages taking on challenges.

The fact that some other things are rewarded properly (finding easter eggs, exploring, gathering) and you think it’s wrong that I think other things should be as rewarding (killing a tough mob) then that makes you “entitled” just because your “prefered method” of playing is rewarding and others’ aren’t.

And if this game was purely about “just adventure and happy fun time” then there would be no levels, no gear, no loot, no nothing. It would be “PURELY” a sandbox game where you come on with all your skills unlocked in locked gear and go around exploring with absolutely 0 rewards.

Rewards are a great way to encourage (not force) players to play a certain way you want, an example of this is that “anti-farming code” which rewards players for being on the move and exploring while killing what’s in their way as opposed to sitting in the same little nook camping the same few mobs.

Another one is gaining xp for rezzing npc’s and players, as well as putting chests in secret areas (to encourage exploration) as well as XP for vistas/PoI’s etc.

If you think that’s wrong then you also are disagreeing with GW2’s already existing “design philosophy”. You shouldn’t speak for Anet as if this is just YOUR game and everyone else’s playstyle is wrong when in fact it’s apparent Anet is not against proper risk/reward or even continuous end game for that matter.

edit : Also just to throw this in, since this game is compared to the Elder Scrolls games alot, they make a good example of risk/reward in a game that is heavily about simple exploration. Fact : people like being rewarded for their effort, there is nothing wrong with that.

I don’t think he particularly needs a treadmill, it’s the fact that doing anything barely gives you any money.
I haven’t once gone over 2 gold, there’s way too many gold sinks, not enough ways to make gold.

I almost have 5 gold at level 68! =D

The people with money problems, are you using the trading post at all? Are you dumping all of your money on something? My highest char is 42 and I’ve gotten up to atleast 9-10 g before dumping it on gems.

I really agree with this post. The rewards for many risks are extremely broken in this game. Champion mobs (and even veterans) are broken. It’s amazing to watch end game events done by smart players because no one actually wants to attack the boss. The smart ones are running after the gold fodder of normal and weak mobs. It’s also become the same while leveling. Here’s my recent experience that helped me confirm this fact.

I’m playing and come along a chest guarded by a champion troll. I grab the troll and proceed to try to solo him. It’s going okay, but I’m slowly losing due to respawns and terrain that requires me to constantly jump in order to get over stupid little skulls on the ground. As I’m killing him (he’s at ~75%), I watch some player run up, grab the chest, then leave. I keep going after the troll. I watch another player come up, grab the chest, then leave. (He’s ~62%). I continue along while pondering whispering the aforementioned players to give them a piece of my mind. I mis-jump and snag on some tiny little skull which is enough to get me frozen by the troll and dead (boss at ~42%). So, not only do I eat the death penalty, I don’t get the chest. I also get the joy of watching players leech the chest by running away from the mob.

Players may have bonded together to defeat these things originally, but that is dead now. Players don’t rez because they don’t want to lose the gold medal. Players don’t help kill champions because they are a waste of time. Players don’t really rally together for the group events without a chest because they are a waste of time. I can’t really blame them either. The rewards from certain activities in the game are broken.

Dradiin.8935:

GW2 has been advertised as a MMORPG and when i get into MMORPGs i have certain expectations about it.

A lot of people are making that mistake, it seems, expecting this MMO to be just like every other MMO.

OP, There is no universal law stating that MMOs have to compensate players at any particular rate or level of loot. I don’t think the rewards I’m seeing are out of line with what I’ve seen in other games. I do think there are a good number of players with pretty hugely misplaced expectations about where they should be 3 weeks into the game.

DusK.3849:

Dradiin.8935:

GW2 has been advertised as a MMORPG and when i get into MMORPGs i have certain expectations about it.

A lot of people are making that mistake, it seems, expecting this MMO to be just like every other MMO.

Except that it actually is like many other MMO’s.

If you really think poorly designed rewards that encourage terrible play is one of the “features” of GW2 you’re dead wrong. And this has nothing to do with gear grind/progression.

Dosvidaniya.3260:

I really agree with this post. The rewards for many risks are extremely broken in this game. Champion mobs (and even veterans) are broken. It’s amazing to watch end game events done by smart players because no one actually wants to attack the boss. The smart ones are running after the gold fodder of normal and weak mobs. It’s also become the same while leveling. Here’s my recent experience that helped me confirm this fact.

I’m playing and come along a chest guarded by a champion troll. I grab the troll and proceed to try to solo him. It’s going okay, but I’m slowly losing due to respawns and terrain that requires me to constantly jump in order to get over stupid little skulls on the ground. As I’m killing him (he’s at ~75%), I watch some player run up, grab the chest, then leave. I keep going after the troll. I watch another player come up, grab the chest, then leave. (He’s ~62%). I continue along while pondering whispering the aforementioned players to give them a piece of my mind. I mis-jump and snag on some tiny little skull which is enough to get me frozen by the troll and dead (boss at ~42%). So, not only do I eat the death penalty, I don’t get the chest. I also get the joy of watching players leech the chest by running away from the mob.

Players may have bonded together to defeat these things originally, but that is dead now. Players don’t rez because they don’t want to lose the gold medal. Players don’t help kill champions because they are a waste of time. Players don’t really rally together for the group events without a chest because they are a waste of time. I can’t really blame them either. The rewards from certain activities in the game are broken.

Fantastic post with great examples.

Untouch.2541:

I don’t think he particularly needs a treadmill, it’s the fact that doing anything barely gives you any money.

Player ran economy here’s the truths about it and how rifts economy I thought was bad but it was really good.

Ok lets first off take into account that all the high level mines for the most part cost less than copper. The way the gathering is setup keeps them to where everyone has them very easily.

Secondly players are selling all their greens/teal loot for the same price (one bronze more) it was sold to a vendor (less than the price if you rollover it after being sold to the vendor) and actually losing money from the black markets CUTS.

Now, taking into account that everyone is completely destroying everything and already has a low price on everything here is what you have to take into mind.

On rifts release everyone put high prices on everything AND KEPT THEM THERE, for some reason the economy stayed stable, and I think it partially had to do with the way mats were rare in comparison to here (if someone mines this you have to wait for it to respawn, keeping the rare mines kinda rare and more expensive).

So for example lets say if greens sold for 10 silver each. It would cost more for you to buy a green when you wanted one, however… The upside to this is everytime you get a green drop you get around ten silver.

Therefore, when this is happening those 12-20 silver repairs, and those 6 silver siege weapons don’t look to expensive now do they?

That is not what is happening. Everyone is selling things for the lowest price possible.

They are also instead of just going with the lowest seller (which I find sells almost instantly for mats and crafted items) they want to put items in for one bronze less, which sells at about the same rate and this quickly takes the prices on everything down, and makes crafting completely useless in no time when EVERYONE is doing it. A good example of this is the omnom berry stuff dropping from 2.5s yesterday to 1.5s today. So you went from making about 80 copper per item crafted to making about 5 copper per item crafted, in a DAY. This is what happened the day I got to where I could craft omnom stuff, unfortunately, and I wasn’t the one who participated in it. However the cooks themselves were their own downfall, for running the market ignorantly.

Now, if everyone just kept the drop prices at a good rate, then yes it would cost more for you to buy your armor, HOWEVER, everytime YOU get an armor DROP, you would be making MORE.

This is why everything in the game seems so expensive, because players ruined the economy so fast it’s insane.

I have to agree to a certain extent on a few champion fights. I spend 15 min killing something and afterwards I think, well that was anticlimactic…Not even one drop. I’ve resolved to move on by next time I see a roving giant killing people, the effort and time it takes isn’t worth my time, hopefully others will enjoy it. What I do enjoy was the events that give access to a special vendor after the event chain is over, perhaps because we never lose these event chains right now it’s not important to me to win then.

I recently found a little ‘Easter egg’ where I got to fight Tenad the Faithful. You have properly summon him but after he dies you just move on. It would be good to have something noticeable after you killed the guy who imprisoned all these angry ghosts and you had to solve a riddle just to fight him. Perhaps a ghost vendor that sold ghost weapon skins.

GW2 is billed as an MMO that’s not an MMO. It’s geared around the player experience and story. Is the loot/reward system perfect? No. however it isn’t perfect in any game because to be perfect you have to please everyone.

Give the game more than a month to get on its feet. The devs will (should) take into account feedback and make adjustments accordingly.

If you want lots of pixelated rewards quick fast an in a hurry, check out a pay to play MMO for a bit. GW2 isn’t your standard MMO and never claimed to be.

I couldn’t agree more with how the champion mobs, veteran mobs, etc, even when solo’ed so you know you get the drop, drops absolutely nothing. Not even a small amount of bronze or a white item.

It’s a little silly to do a 3-15 minute fight for absolutely nothing.

I’m not saying they should drop good stuff everytime, but I mean they drop absolutely nothing.

We took a two person team into arah today, explorable, farmed everything up to the ancient ooze, tons of spiders all the other orrian things. There was maybe ten to fifteen drops out of 120 things killed. All of those drops being nothing over a teal. When I say drop I am also including 50 bronze coins being dropped as a drop. This also happens elsewhere, and a group of two people, we were in there for like two hours.

However with the players running this economy (read my last post) rare drops (yellow) will only be worth about 5 silver each within a month. So farming will be a complete waste of time along with the crafting at that point. I just watched a rare item drop 10 silver in thirty minutes, and is continuing to drop at crazy rates.

To the OP: Your expectations are wrong. In fact, having expectations at all is wrong. Accept every game for what it is. GW1 came out specifically as game that was played for the gameplay, and not for any virtual loot.

Over time (and in GW2) they added a lot of loot and achievement based stuff to appease those people who can’t live without a carrot on a treadmill, but overall the philosophy of the GW series has been anti-virtual-loot.

Now, I quite cheerfully played hundreds of hours of Quake, Tetris and all sorts of other games without any “reward” for my “effort”. And I’ve played many hours of GW2 without any expectation of a “reward”.

If you expected GW2 to be anything other than what it is, then your expectation was obviously wrong.

I played the Devil May Cry series a dozen times each game, and I’ll carry the same attitude towards the dungeons in GW2 – I’ll play them multiple times as long as I’m enjoying myself. If I’m not enjoying myself, then I’ll stop. If I happen to enjoy myself long enough to get enough tokens for the dungeon armour, then great. If not, then it’s no big deal.

This is the correct attitude to have.

For kitten sake can people stop using WoW as an argument? There are TONS of RPG games where you do kitten and get reward for it because you put an efford into a job that’s how RPG games work. Stop thinking that WoW invented loot and rewards for doing hard stuff. You’re just bunch of ignorants with no arguments so you use wow as your leverage and it makes me sick. I’ve never played Wow, but I played almost all rpg games on the market. So what now? This game isn’t an rpg game? Well maybe it’s time for it to stop calling itself an mmoRPG game and start being and FPS in fantasy universe.