I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
Rollback on changes ETA?
So, as you’ve probably noticed ANet, a very big part of the community is unhappy
Laughing so hard right now
Do you even know how small the forum community is compared to the entire playerbase? Devs have already said it is minuscule; I would wager less than 2%.
Are there really this many people on here incapable of seeing past their own noses?
“You’ll PAY to know what you really think.” ~ J. R. “Bob” Dobbs
It’s like my friends/guild/social circle would deliberately give a bad opinion of a change for no reason, right?
If they have played it and are weighing in; sure that’s some useful input. If they are reading the forums then reiterating those comments to you; that is less useful.
Flashback to first release of DryTop and the commotion caused by the “forced jumping puzzles” in order to advance the story. Thread after thread of people saying it isn’t fair to force jumping, gaining sympathy for those with motor skill issues, refusing to participate in the content because jumping puzzles shouldn’t be required, etc etc. We all remember.
I had a guild member who had been able to play the update before I did. He isn’t a fan of GW2 to start with. He’s a once a month type player and loves to read the forums and nitpick on things here and there, but whatever it is his right to do so (loved GW1 but can’t stand GW2 for whatever reason).
Anyway, I finally get on and ask him if he wants to join me for the new LS. He declined citing that he hates jumping puzzles. I asked him, oh there are jumping puzzles? He says that in order to get through the new LS you have to do so much jumping it may as well be a jumping puzzle so he gave up on it. He also didn’t hide his opinion in guild chat when people got on asking how the new update was. “It’s great if you don’t mind doing Jumping Puzzles to progress” he would say. A smattering of guildies would express their hatred of jumping puzzles and would continue on with comments like “ugh that sucks, why would Anet do that! I hate jumping puzzles! I guess I won’t be doing LS this year, wow Anet sucks so bad.”
Then a new person logs on and asks “Hey how’s the new update!” Now two people chime in (first guy, and second guy he told) along the lines of “great unless you hate jumping puzzles, because there’s tons of jumping puzzles to get through for the LS.”
Naturally I assumed he had played it and then quit when he came to all of the jumping. No big deal, I love jumping puzzles. So I play through the LS. It took me two days, and each mission I would expect the next mission must be the one he was talking about. Finished the LS. There were no jumping puzzles. There was one mission with 3 jumps. Three. And not jumping puzzle type jumps, we’re talking, jump to this obvious ledge type jumps.
So naturally I ask him in guild. “Hey which mission is the one with all the jumping?”
His response, “Oh I dunno, I never actually played it, I read on the forums about all of the jumping and I hate jumping puzzles so I didn’t want to do it.”
^^^ That’s how guild members can give poor input. They clearly believe what they are saying, but they could very well kittenoing sentiments from other sources rather than speaking from first-hand experience, which, if the forums are their sources, is pretty useless information.
Just an example from my experience.
I won’t stop because I can’t stop.
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
It’s a medical condition, they say its terminal….
So, as you’ve probably noticed ANet, a very big part of the community is unhappy
Laughing so hard right now
Do you even know how small the forum community is compared to the entire playerbase? Devs have already said it is minuscule; I would wager less than 2%.
Are there really this many people on here incapable of seeing past their own noses?
Logical fallacy. The majority of people do not voice their opinions. You can not listen to a voice that doesn’t exist. Therefore, you have to listen to those people who express their opinions. These people can be found on the official forums/reddit/popular fansites.
I’m getting tired of the old argument “the forum represents a minority, therefore their opinions are irrelevant”. The forum represents the majority of people who voice their opinions and is therefore not irrelevant.
So, as you’ve probably noticed ANet, a very big part of the community is unhappy
Laughing so hard right now
Do you even know how small the forum community is compared to the entire playerbase? Devs have already said it is minuscule; I would wager less than 2%.
Are there really this many people on here incapable of seeing past their own noses?
Logical fallacy. The majority of people do not voice their opinions. You can not listen to a voice that doesn’t exist. Therefore, you have to listen to those people who express their opinions. These people can be found on the official forums/reddit/popular fansites.
I’m getting tired of the old argument “the forum represents a minority, therefore their opinions are irrelevant”. The forum represents the majority of people who voice their opinions and is therefore not irrelevant.
Actually this is the logical fallacy.
Point 1. This game is played by X number of people.
Point 2. Only Y number of people have an opinion they voice.
Point 3. Any change made to accomodate Y people won’t just affect Y people. It’ll affect the X people too. Anet can’t just make choices based on a small group of people giving that advice, unless they’re relatively sure those changes would go over well.
As an example, the hardest core players who want challenges all over the place are probably not a majority. But they are very vocal on forums. They’re the min/maxers and the people who develop the metas. Logically speaking they are the most vested and smartest players in the game.
A game made for them would increasingly exclude a large number of other people. The more you make it for the top 5% the more the bottom 95% will feel disenfranchised. The more you make it for the top 10% the more the bottom 90% will feel disenfranchised.
The question has always been this. Is the forum a microcosm for the entire game’s player base, or is it a select few who think more deeply about their gaming experience and want something different than the vast majority of people who don’t post want.
I moderated a forum called guildwars2forum.com a long time ago and I had access to the numbers. Less than 15% of the people visiting that forum ever left a post. That means that, at least on that forum, 85% of the people never had a say. Not here, there.
But I’ve moderated other groups that weren’t forums, mostly yahoo groups, in the past and I’ve found the same 15% rule applies. I’ve never been in a group with more than 20% of people reading it ever posted.
Those who post are not necessarily representative of the majority of the player base. And that’s only lurkers and posters. What percentage of those who play never even lurk?
The mind boggles.
So, as you’ve probably noticed ANet, a very big part of the community is unhappy
Laughing so hard right now
Do you even know how small the forum community is compared to the entire playerbase? Devs have already said it is minuscule; I would wager less than 2%.
Are there really this many people on here incapable of seeing past their own noses?
Logical fallacy. The majority of people do not voice their opinions. You can not listen to a voice that doesn’t exist. Therefore, you have to listen to those people who express their opinions. These people can be found on the official forums/reddit/popular fansites.
I’m getting tired of the old argument “the forum represents a minority, therefore their opinions are irrelevant”. The forum represents the majority of people who voice their opinions and is therefore not irrelevant.
I love it when the first thing out of someone’s mouth is “logical fallacy.” Shows that you know immensely more than I do about dismissing reality with superficial labels.
The tiny percentage of people who are on here QQing nonstop about the NPE are in no way representative of the average player’s opinion. So why should they be listened to? Anet has the metrics. They know far more about the game and the players than anyone complaining about the changes does.
Sorry to say (actually, I’m not at all), this is simply a matter of the ignorant trying to inform the knowledgeable about something they are unable (or perhaps just unwilling) to comprehend.
“You’ll PAY to know what you really think.” ~ J. R. “Bob” Dobbs
(edited by Andred.1087)
The tiny percentage of people who are on here QQing nonstop about the NPE are in no way representative of the average player’s opinion. So why should they be listened to? Anet has the metrics. They know far more about the game and the players than anyone complaining about the changes does.
Sorry to say (actually, I’m not at all), this is simply a matter of the ignorant trying to inform the knowledgeable.
Why should arenanet listen to people on the forums? because they express their opinions. Who else does? People who do not express their opinions (which is the majority) can’t be listened to. It is physically impossible.
Presidents get elected by people who vote, not by people who don’t vote.
People who don’t express their opinions do not deserve to be listened to and have to deal with whatever changes happen. If they do care then they are free to come to the forums and express their opinions. Best example: me! I never wrote anything in the past 2 years but yet, here I am, expressing my dissatisfaction with the recent changes. I stopped being a “silent voice” and became a voice.
According to your logic, forums shouldn’t exist and game developers should never change anything ever …because, you know, the majority will never speak up.
By the way, your metrics do not express the majority either.
(edited by Straylight.7529)
They know far more about the game and the players than anyone complaining about the changes does.
Nope. They dont. That’s why their game is losing ground, and above all thing, i think Anet is somekind of hardcore masochist.
And for these mindless fanboys : Keep it real, until you’ll realize, that this game is no longer the same game from 2 years ago.
[Main]Kappy Ry – Asura Guardian [~You are all,Bookahs !!!~]
[Second Main]Korvus Mistreaver – Charr Revenant [~I’m blind not deaf~]
[Third Main] Vladdz – Asura Engineer [~In due times, all will serve asura~]
[Second Main]Korvus Mistreaver – Charr Revenant [~I’m blind not deaf~]
[Third Main] Vladdz – Asura Engineer [~In due times, all will serve asura~]
So, as you’ve probably noticed ANet, a very big part of the community is unhappy
Laughing so hard right now
Do you even know how small the forum community is compared to the entire playerbase? Devs have already said it is minuscule; I would wager less than 2%.
Are there really this many people on here incapable of seeing past their own noses?
Logical fallacy. The majority of people do not voice their opinions. You can not listen to a voice that doesn’t exist. Therefore, you have to listen to those people who express their opinions. These people can be found on the official forums/reddit/popular fansites.
I’m getting tired of the old argument “the forum represents a minority, therefore their opinions are irrelevant”. The forum represents the majority of people who voice their opinions and is therefore not irrelevant.
Actually this is the logical fallacy.
Point 1. This game is played by X number of people.
Point 2. Only Y number of people have an opinion they voice.
Point 3. Any change made to accomodate Y people won’t just affect Y people. It’ll affect the X people too. Anet can’t just make choices based on a small group of people giving that advice, unless they’re relatively sure those changes would go over well.As an example, the hardest core players who want challenges all over the place are probably not a majority. But they are very vocal on forums. They’re the min/maxers and the people who develop the metas. Logically speaking they are the most vested and smartest players in the game.
A game made for them would increasingly exclude a large number of other people. The more you make it for the top 5% the more the bottom 95% will feel disenfranchised. The more you make it for the top 10% the more the bottom 90% will feel disenfranchised.
The question has always been this. Is the forum a microcosm for the entire game’s player base, or is it a select few who think more deeply about their gaming experience and want something different than the vast majority of people who don’t post want.
I moderated a forum called guildwars2forum.com a long time ago and I had access to the numbers. Less than 15% of the people visiting that forum ever left a post. That means that, at least on that forum, 85% of the people never had a say. Not here, there.
But I’ve moderated other groups that weren’t forums, mostly yahoo groups, in the past and I’ve found the same 15% rule applies. I’ve never been in a group with more than 20% of people reading it ever posted.
Those who post are not necessarily representative of the majority of the player base. And that’s only lurkers and posters. What percentage of those who play never even lurk?
The mind boggles.
Then riddle me this Vayne. Why is A-Net doing the CDI’s? If we forum goers are such a small percentage of the actual players, why ask for our imput on subjects that will effect the future of the game?
So, as you’ve probably noticed ANet, a very big part of the community is unhappy
Laughing so hard right now
Do you even know how small the forum community is compared to the entire playerbase? Devs have already said it is minuscule; I would wager less than 2%.
Are there really this many people on here incapable of seeing past their own noses?
Logical fallacy. The majority of people do not voice their opinions. You can not listen to a voice that doesn’t exist. Therefore, you have to listen to those people who express their opinions. These people can be found on the official forums/reddit/popular fansites.
I’m getting tired of the old argument “the forum represents a minority, therefore their opinions are irrelevant”. The forum represents the majority of people who voice their opinions and is therefore not irrelevant.
Actually this is the logical fallacy.
Point 1. This game is played by X number of people.
Point 2. Only Y number of people have an opinion they voice.
Point 3. Any change made to accomodate Y people won’t just affect Y people. It’ll affect the X people too. Anet can’t just make choices based on a small group of people giving that advice, unless they’re relatively sure those changes would go over well.As an example, the hardest core players who want challenges all over the place are probably not a majority. But they are very vocal on forums. They’re the min/maxers and the people who develop the metas. Logically speaking they are the most vested and smartest players in the game.
A game made for them would increasingly exclude a large number of other people. The more you make it for the top 5% the more the bottom 95% will feel disenfranchised. The more you make it for the top 10% the more the bottom 90% will feel disenfranchised.
The question has always been this. Is the forum a microcosm for the entire game’s player base, or is it a select few who think more deeply about their gaming experience and want something different than the vast majority of people who don’t post want.
I moderated a forum called guildwars2forum.com a long time ago and I had access to the numbers. Less than 15% of the people visiting that forum ever left a post. That means that, at least on that forum, 85% of the people never had a say. Not here, there.
But I’ve moderated other groups that weren’t forums, mostly yahoo groups, in the past and I’ve found the same 15% rule applies. I’ve never been in a group with more than 20% of people reading it ever posted.
Those who post are not necessarily representative of the majority of the player base. And that’s only lurkers and posters. What percentage of those who play never even lurk?
The mind boggles.
Then riddle me this Vayne. Why is A-Net doing the CDI’s? If we forum goers are such a small percentage of the actual players, why ask for our imput on subjects that will effect the future of the game?
I think this poster summed it up pretty well: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Rollback-on-changes-ETA/page/2#post4388644
You are erroneously conflating majority opinion with ability to possibly make a good suggestion. CDI and forums “not representing the majority of players” are entirely unrelated. The CDIs are not about getting us to fix or change or improve the game as representatives of the majority. They are about brainstorming for cool and interesting ideas.
We merely share and discuss these ideas, ANet judge them and pick the ones they like/want/think will be good. We don’t vote the ideas in or anything.
Ideas should be judged on their merits, not the merits of the people who come up with them, so getting a whole bunch of randoms, most with a pretty solid working knowledge of at least part of the game is a great way to source ideas.
We provide ideas, they use them for inspiration, or not, as they choose. It’s really that simple.
So, as you’ve probably noticed ANet, a very big part of the community is unhappy
Laughing so hard right now
Do you even know how small the forum community is compared to the entire playerbase? Devs have already said it is minuscule; I would wager less than 2%.
Are there really this many people on here incapable of seeing past their own noses?
Logical fallacy. The majority of people do not voice their opinions. You can not listen to a voice that doesn’t exist. Therefore, you have to listen to those people who express their opinions. These people can be found on the official forums/reddit/popular fansites.
I’m getting tired of the old argument “the forum represents a minority, therefore their opinions are irrelevant”. The forum represents the majority of people who voice their opinions and is therefore not irrelevant.
Actually this is the logical fallacy.
Point 1. This game is played by X number of people.
Point 2. Only Y number of people have an opinion they voice.
Point 3. Any change made to accomodate Y people won’t just affect Y people. It’ll affect the X people too. Anet can’t just make choices based on a small group of people giving that advice, unless they’re relatively sure those changes would go over well.As an example, the hardest core players who want challenges all over the place are probably not a majority. But they are very vocal on forums. They’re the min/maxers and the people who develop the metas. Logically speaking they are the most vested and smartest players in the game.
A game made for them would increasingly exclude a large number of other people. The more you make it for the top 5% the more the bottom 95% will feel disenfranchised. The more you make it for the top 10% the more the bottom 90% will feel disenfranchised.
The question has always been this. Is the forum a microcosm for the entire game’s player base, or is it a select few who think more deeply about their gaming experience and want something different than the vast majority of people who don’t post want.
I moderated a forum called guildwars2forum.com a long time ago and I had access to the numbers. Less than 15% of the people visiting that forum ever left a post. That means that, at least on that forum, 85% of the people never had a say. Not here, there.
But I’ve moderated other groups that weren’t forums, mostly yahoo groups, in the past and I’ve found the same 15% rule applies. I’ve never been in a group with more than 20% of people reading it ever posted.
Those who post are not necessarily representative of the majority of the player base. And that’s only lurkers and posters. What percentage of those who play never even lurk?
The mind boggles.
Then riddle me this Vayne. Why is A-Net doing the CDI’s? If we forum goers are such a small percentage of the actual players, why ask for our imput on subjects that will effect the future of the game?
I think this poster summed it up pretty well: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Rollback-on-changes-ETA/page/2#post4388644
You are erroneously conflating majority opinion with ability to possibly make a good suggestion. CDI and forums “not representing the majority of players” are entirely unrelated. The CDIs are not about getting us to fix or change or improve the game as representatives of the majority. They are about brainstorming for cool and interesting ideas.
We merely share and discuss these ideas, ANet judge them and pick the ones they like/want/think will be good. We don’t vote the ideas in or anything.
Ideas should be judged on their merits, not the merits of the people who come up with them, so getting a whole bunch of randoms, most with a pretty solid working knowledge of at least part of the game is a great way to source ideas.We provide ideas, they use them for inspiration, or not, as they choose. It’s really that simple.
Well, that sounds exactly like what is seen in these forums be it a CDI thread or even an “I quit” thread. You have people voicing their concerns about the game. It’s still basically the same people participating in the threads be it a positive one or a negative.
I think this poster summed it up pretty well: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Rollback-on-changes-ETA/page/2#post4388644
You are erroneously conflating majority opinion with ability to possibly make a good suggestion. CDI and forums “not representing the majority of players” are entirely unrelated. The CDIs are not about getting us to fix or change or improve the game as representatives of the majority. They are about brainstorming for cool and interesting ideas.
We merely share and discuss these ideas, ANet judge them and pick the ones they like/want/think will be good. We don’t vote the ideas in or anything.
Ideas should be judged on their merits, not the merits of the people who come up with them, so getting a whole bunch of randoms, most with a pretty solid working knowledge of at least part of the game is a great way to source ideas.We provide ideas, they use them for inspiration, or not, as they choose. It’s really that simple.
You make it sound like “brainstorming & ideas” are sooo different from “dissatisfied players giving feedback”.
So, as you’ve probably noticed ANet, a very big part of the community is unhappy
Laughing so hard right now
Do you even know how small the forum community is compared to the entire playerbase? Devs have already said it is minuscule; I would wager less than 2%.
Are there really this many people on here incapable of seeing past their own noses?
Logical fallacy. The majority of people do not voice their opinions. You can not listen to a voice that doesn’t exist. Therefore, you have to listen to those people who express their opinions. These people can be found on the official forums/reddit/popular fansites.
I’m getting tired of the old argument “the forum represents a minority, therefore their opinions are irrelevant”. The forum represents the majority of people who voice their opinions and is therefore not irrelevant.
Actually this is the logical fallacy.
Point 1. This game is played by X number of people.
Point 2. Only Y number of people have an opinion they voice.
Point 3. Any change made to accomodate Y people won’t just affect Y people. It’ll affect the X people too. Anet can’t just make choices based on a small group of people giving that advice, unless they’re relatively sure those changes would go over well.As an example, the hardest core players who want challenges all over the place are probably not a majority. But they are very vocal on forums. They’re the min/maxers and the people who develop the metas. Logically speaking they are the most vested and smartest players in the game.
A game made for them would increasingly exclude a large number of other people. The more you make it for the top 5% the more the bottom 95% will feel disenfranchised. The more you make it for the top 10% the more the bottom 90% will feel disenfranchised.
The question has always been this. Is the forum a microcosm for the entire game’s player base, or is it a select few who think more deeply about their gaming experience and want something different than the vast majority of people who don’t post want.
I moderated a forum called guildwars2forum.com a long time ago and I had access to the numbers. Less than 15% of the people visiting that forum ever left a post. That means that, at least on that forum, 85% of the people never had a say. Not here, there.
But I’ve moderated other groups that weren’t forums, mostly yahoo groups, in the past and I’ve found the same 15% rule applies. I’ve never been in a group with more than 20% of people reading it ever posted.
Those who post are not necessarily representative of the majority of the player base. And that’s only lurkers and posters. What percentage of those who play never even lurk?
The mind boggles.
Then riddle me this Vayne. Why is A-Net doing the CDI’s? If we forum goers are such a small percentage of the actual players, why ask for our imput on subjects that will effect the future of the game?
The obvious answer is that people on the forum could very well have valuable ideas. That doesn’t mean the forum’s CDIs will dictate what Anet does or doesn’t do.
You see, saying that the forum are the top 15% of the playbase (possibly even the top 5%) isn’t hard to figure out. You ask them stuff because they can have insight. Individuals can give you ideas. This is called brainstorming.
I had a great critique group at one point and often I got a good idea from them. But just as often what they said would have changed the story I wanted to tell and that would have made it impossible for me to tell it.
Simply put, brainstorming is smart. It gives you more ideas. Even if you can’t use the ideas in whole, it can spark other ideas.
But you don’t have to be a majority to brain storm. Anet still can’t just take forum posters into account, because we’re not a majority, almost certainly.
I think this poster summed it up pretty well: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Rollback-on-changes-ETA/page/2#post4388644
You are erroneously conflating majority opinion with ability to possibly make a good suggestion. CDI and forums “not representing the majority of players” are entirely unrelated. The CDIs are not about getting us to fix or change or improve the game as representatives of the majority. They are about brainstorming for cool and interesting ideas.
We merely share and discuss these ideas, ANet judge them and pick the ones they like/want/think will be good. We don’t vote the ideas in or anything.
Ideas should be judged on their merits, not the merits of the people who come up with them, so getting a whole bunch of randoms, most with a pretty solid working knowledge of at least part of the game is a great way to source ideas.We provide ideas, they use them for inspiration, or not, as they choose. It’s really that simple.
You make it sound like “brainstorming & ideas” are sooo different from “dissatisfied players giving feedback”.
Ha ha. I’m not saying anything. Merely providing a link to a post that seemed to answer the poster in question’s query. I do believe, however, that is more or less what the Devs have stated is the purpose of the CDIs. Probably could read about it in the Stickies. /shrug
They know far more about the game and the players than anyone complaining about the changes does.
Nope. They dont. That’s why their game is losing ground, and above all thing, i think Anet is somekind of hardcore masochist.
And for these mindless fanboys : Keep it real, until you’ll realize, that this game is no longer the same game from 2 years ago.
Their game is losing ground? Evidence?
Their game is doing what almost all MMOs have to deal with in their lifetime. It’s dealing with aging. During the last quarter both ESO and Wildstar were released. I don’t really think, all things considered, they’re losing ground as fast as you think.
And yes, this game is NOT the same game from two years ago. 100% true. In some ways it’s better and some ways it’s worth. 2 years ago, we had neither fractals nor drytop, both of which I like. There were far more bugs back then then there are now. And a lot of the game has fundamentally changed. If you like the changes, the game is better than it was, and if you don’t like the changes, the game is worse.
But you know, I can’t think of any MMO I’ve ever played that was fundamentally the same two years after launch. Not one.
Hell, games like Final Fantasy had to be closed down and rewritten completely. Star Wars ToR went free to play. They’re making major changes to ESO and moved the launch of the console back because of it. Even Archeage has had fundamental changes from 1.0 to 1.2
So, as you’ve probably noticed ANet, a very big part of the community is unhappy
Laughing so hard right now
Do you even know how small the forum community is compared to the entire playerbase? Devs have already said it is minuscule; I would wager less than 2%.
Are there really this many people on here incapable of seeing past their own noses?
Logical fallacy. The majority of people do not voice their opinions. You can not listen to a voice that doesn’t exist. Therefore, you have to listen to those people who express their opinions. These people can be found on the official forums/reddit/popular fansites.
I’m getting tired of the old argument “the forum represents a minority, therefore their opinions are irrelevant”. The forum represents the majority of people who voice their opinions and is therefore not irrelevant.
Actually this is the logical fallacy.
Point 1. This game is played by X number of people.
Point 2. Only Y number of people have an opinion they voice.
Point 3. Any change made to accomodate Y people won’t just affect Y people. It’ll affect the X people too. Anet can’t just make choices based on a small group of people giving that advice, unless they’re relatively sure those changes would go over well.As an example, the hardest core players who want challenges all over the place are probably not a majority. But they are very vocal on forums. They’re the min/maxers and the people who develop the metas. Logically speaking they are the most vested and smartest players in the game.
A game made for them would increasingly exclude a large number of other people. The more you make it for the top 5% the more the bottom 95% will feel disenfranchised. The more you make it for the top 10% the more the bottom 90% will feel disenfranchised.
The question has always been this. Is the forum a microcosm for the entire game’s player base, or is it a select few who think more deeply about their gaming experience and want something different than the vast majority of people who don’t post want.
I moderated a forum called guildwars2forum.com a long time ago and I had access to the numbers. Less than 15% of the people visiting that forum ever left a post. That means that, at least on that forum, 85% of the people never had a say. Not here, there.
But I’ve moderated other groups that weren’t forums, mostly yahoo groups, in the past and I’ve found the same 15% rule applies. I’ve never been in a group with more than 20% of people reading it ever posted.
Those who post are not necessarily representative of the majority of the player base. And that’s only lurkers and posters. What percentage of those who play never even lurk?
The mind boggles.
Then riddle me this Vayne. Why is A-Net doing the CDI’s? If we forum goers are such a small percentage of the actual players, why ask for our imput on subjects that will effect the future of the game?
The obvious answer is that people on the forum could very well have valuable ideas. That doesn’t mean the forum’s CDIs will dictate what Anet does or doesn’t do.
You see, saying that the forum are the top 15% of the playbase (possibly even the top 5%) isn’t hard to figure out. You ask them stuff because they can have insight. Individuals can give you ideas. This is called brainstorming.
I had a great critique group at one point and often I got a good idea from them. But just as often what they said would have changed the story I wanted to tell and that would have made it impossible for me to tell it.
Simply put, brainstorming is smart. It gives you more ideas. Even if you can’t use the ideas in whole, it can spark other ideas.
But you don’t have to be a majority to brain storm. Anet still can’t just take forum posters into account, because we’re not a majority, almost certainly.
Yes, we are the majority who express their opinions. The only majority you can listen to.
“Hey guys, let’s listen to those people over here for some cool brainstorming but not those guys over there, who’re dissatisfied with the direction GW2 is going”.
So, as you’ve probably noticed ANet, a very big part of the community is unhappy
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snip
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A game made for them would increasingly exclude a large number of other people. The more you make it for the top 5% the more the bottom 95% will feel disenfranchised. The more you make it for the top 10% the more the bottom 90% will feel disenfranchised.
The question has always been this. Is the forum a microcosm for the entire game’s player base, or is it a select few who think more deeply about their gaming experience and want something different than the vast majority of people who don’t post want.
I moderated a forum called guildwars2forum.com a long time ago and I had access to the numbers. Less than 15% of the people visiting that forum ever left a post. That means that, at least on that forum, 85% of the people never had a say. Not here, there.
But I’ve moderated other groups that weren’t forums, mostly yahoo groups, in the past and I’ve found the same 15% rule applies. I’ve never been in a group with more than 20% of people reading it ever posted.
Those who post are not necessarily representative of the majority of the player base. And that’s only lurkers and posters. What percentage of those who play never even lurk?
The mind boggles.
Then riddle me this Vayne. Why is A-Net doing the CDI’s? If we forum goers are such a small percentage of the actual players, why ask for our imput on subjects that will effect the future of the game?
The obvious answer is that people on the forum could very well have valuable ideas. That doesn’t mean the forum’s CDIs will dictate what Anet does or doesn’t do.
You see, saying that the forum are the top 15% of the playbase (possibly even the top 5%) isn’t hard to figure out. You ask them stuff because they can have insight. Individuals can give you ideas. This is called brainstorming.
I had a great critique group at one point and often I got a good idea from them. But just as often what they said would have changed the story I wanted to tell and that would have made it impossible for me to tell it.
Simply put, brainstorming is smart. It gives you more ideas. Even if you can’t use the ideas in whole, it can spark other ideas.
But you don’t have to be a majority to brain storm. Anet still can’t just take forum posters into account, because we’re not a majority, almost certainly.
Yes, we are the majority who express their opinions. The only majority you can listen to.
“Hey guys, let’s listen to those people over here for some cool brainstorming but not those guys over there, who’re dissatisfied with the direction GW2 is going”.
This is a very simplistic approach to the problem. Let’s make the analogy a simple one.
Let’s say you have five kids. One is outspoken. Knows what he wants. Dominant. So you say, let’s go out for dinner, where do you want to go?
And the dominant kid says chinese! I want chinese. The other kids kowtow to him, because maybe they don’t want to get into an argument with him. There are no less than ten people in my guild who used to post on the forums and left because the environment was too toxic for them and it affected their enjoyment of the game. I’m one of the last three people in my guild to post here. I’m sure the number was closer to 20 at some point. They got tired of the negativity.
So we go to chinese, even though four of the five kids may not like it as much. But as a father, I know that some kids don’t like it from prior experience and I also know they’re not going to speak up. So what do I do. Listen to the one kid, or try to make a decision that’s fair to everyone.
I asked because you know, maybe someone will come up with a good idea that we can use. But using the one idea by the outspoken guy might not sit well with the other 80% of the kids.
Anet is in the same boat. There’s a very outspoken small percentage who have interests that might not jibe with the rest of the playerbase. And while the rest of the playerbase may not talk here, there are other ways to see what they like and don’t like.
Anet would like run into serious complications if they didn’t take that playerbase into account.
I wish they would roll back the changes to trait acquisition. I tried the new leveling system last weekend. Rolled a band new character and set out for adventure. By the time I got to level 15 I couldn’t stand it anymore, I pulled the 60 tomes of knowledge I had out of the bank then went to the trait merchant and bought all traits and farmed the last 5 levels in EOTM.
Now I can play around with my toon and start experiment with build options for different content. Why anyone would willing level a character the intended way is beyond me.
I really wish they would just sell an insta 80 kit in the gem store.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
Lol. Anet will never roll back. They do not care what vet players think.
^^^^EXACTLY THIS!!!!
Mud Bone – Sylvari Ranger
Therefore, you have to listen to those people who express their opinions.
Straying into some dangerous territory there.
hmm, lets say a game has a million players. Hundreds of thousands of people playing the game without a peep on an official forum or social media site. Maybe a few do post occasionally. “Wish we had more zones, I really liked class X in my last MMO-can we have something like it here,” etc.
A hundred vocal people come to the forums and say that the game’s implementation, basic design, etc are bad and should be reworked from the ground up.
Scrap the entire game, ignore the million players, etc ? Your logic says so.
There are more ways to have a voice than taking time away from the game to post to a forum or third party site.
I’m sure A.Net has noticed all the crying on the forums. There is a good reason they use broad-based metrics and focal groups to evaluate changes; there will always be some subset of players who will complain about anything and those players will always be doing so on the forums.
It’s not even remotely representative of the player base as a whole.
I’m sure A.Net has noticed all the crying on the forums. There is a good reason they use broad-based metrics and focal groups to evaluate changes; there will always be some subset of players who will complain about anything and those players will always be doing so on the forums.
It’s not even remotely representative of the player base as a whole.
I’m beginning to think these changes still hit a broader percentage of the playerbase than Anet was willing to accept as collateral damage, though.
As much as I don’t mind the changes personally, I’m sure Anet is working hard to change the patch to make it more palatable to more people.
I’m sure A.Net has noticed all the crying on the forums. There is a good reason they use broad-based metrics and focal groups to evaluate changes; there will always be some subset of players who will complain about anything and those players will always be doing so on the forums.
It’s not even remotely representative of the player base as a whole.
Metrics aren’t the problem, incomplete metrics are. They’ve developed the changes to the leveling system based on metrics dealing with players who’ve left GW2. They’ve completely ignored what the people who are still playing want.
Wasn’t there supposed to be a patch today along with some more information on what the bugs were and what did not get transferred and or implemented properly?
Vini, Vidi, Vici, Viridis…I came, I saw, I conquered…I got a green??
As much as wed like to see a rollback, it will never happen. There is no way a company would voluntarily admit to the gigantic mistake theyve made and let itself go of any respect and value it held. No, they (and we….if we choose) will go through with it, whatever the cost.
Sadly, you are probably right. ANet has shown a pathological resistance to ever admitting they are wrong and will just double down on failed strategies hoping that somehow, in the end, it will all just work out.
I like most of the ui changes, including the trading post, (though I can’t believe they made order now, rather than buy now, the default).
The concept of better delineation of level up benefits and rewards is a good one, but absolutely ruined by back loading real character progression and delaying core elements just to have something to award players during early leveling.
The NPE does nothing to teach new players the game and just makes the level 1-20 progression a horrible experience. That characters are still kitten once they reach level 20 and don’t really start to gain a sense of wholeness until level 40, greatly diminishes the enjoyability of the first half of the leveling curve.
If character progression were restored to exactly what it was 18 months ago, trait system and all, with the level “reward” system re-tuned with worthy rewards and supplemented by an actually tutorial, (that doesn’t just brush over game mechanics and actually helps to acclimatize new players to GW2s mode of content delivery, exploration and game play), something positive could be derived from the current mess.
However, ANet seems incapable of the degree of self realization needed to understand what’s wrong or how to fix it. Combined with their well beyond stubborn inability to admit they were wrong, it’s hard to see any hope for the game moving forward.
How ironclad is the purchase agreement between NCSoft and ANet? How far does the game and the studio need to fall due to continuous, unnecessary, self inflicted wounds before NCSoft just says “enough”? I think it’s not just the fate of the game in the balance, but the fate of the studio and if they are unwilling to make the corrections, in house, needed to get back on track, won’t NCSoft eventually have to step in and do it themselves?
Or, it could be NCSoft directing them to implement said design decisions.
I don’t really believe that, but it’s just as plausible as thinking what they do is contrary to NCSoft’s wishes.
So, as you’ve probably noticed ANet, a very big part of the community is unhappy
Laughing so hard right now
Do you even know how small the forum community is compared to the entire playerbase? Devs have already said it is minuscule; I would wager less than 2%.
Are there really this many people on here incapable of seeing past their own noses?
Logical fallacy. The majority of people do not voice their opinions. You can not listen to a voice that doesn’t exist. Therefore, you have to listen to those people who express their opinions. These people can be found on the official forums/reddit/popular fansites.
I’m getting tired of the old argument “the forum represents a minority, therefore their opinions are irrelevant”. The forum represents the majority of people who voice their opinions and is therefore not irrelevant.
Nobody ever stated the Forum opinion is irrelevant….just that’s it’s an pinon from less than 2% of the player base. Anet shouldn’t ignore it, but neither should they consider it anything more than a very small percentage slice of everyone that plays their game.
The fallacy here is that you think Anet will knee-jerk react if you and the small disgruntled minority on this Forum yell loud enough….or that they SHOULD react. But you are correct that they should listen….
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That’s the way that lady luck dances
Or, it could be NCSoft directing them to implement said design decisions.
I don’t really believe that, but it’s just as plausible as thinking what they do is contrary to NCSoft’s wishes.
ANet is touted as the most autonomous studio with in NCSoft, while being the only studio with which such a high degree of poor design decisions can be attributed to.
The autonomy is great, a long as the studio is productive. When a trend seems to be developing were quality of work product continues to drop and major missteps become more frequent, eventually something has to give in the relationship between the parent and the child.
IMO, at launch, GW2 had about 80% of what it needed to become an MMO with sustained growth rates and $billion potential. The path towards increasing that percentage were obvious and the core game was very conducive as a foundation for future success.
In the two years since launch, ANet has ignored the obvious and committed to a path for the game that has diminished the game’s financial potential to a massive degree. Instead of growing, the game is shrinking or even imploding. When you start out with the best MMO is a decade and turn it into what it has become, you start attaching dollar figures to those failures that could realistically equate to the loss of hundreds of millions of dollars of potential revenue.
I don’t know that NCSoft taking a heavy hand in trying to force a correction would make things better, but it definitely couldn’t make things worse. ANet seems in serious need of an intervention and with the voice of fans falling on deaf ears and a blind eye turned to the financial consequences that quantify their degree of failure, NCSoft is probably the only one that has any chance of turning things around.
Things now seem completely dysfunctional and one can’t expect to continue on in that state and achieve better results.
I don’t know that NCSoft taking a heavy hand in trying to force a correction would make things better, but it definitely couldn’t make things worse. ANet seems in serious need of an intervention and with the voice of fans falling on deaf ears and a blind eye turned to the financial consequences that quantify their degree of failure, NCSoft is probably the only one that has any chance of turning things around.
Doubt it.
Anet is following orders from NCSoft, and NCSoft is following orders from Nexon.
I don’t know that NCSoft taking a heavy hand in trying to force a correction would make things better, but it definitely couldn’t make things worse. ANet seems in serious need of an intervention and with the voice of fans falling on deaf ears and a blind eye turned to the financial consequences that quantify their degree of failure, NCSoft is probably the only one that has any chance of turning things around.
Doubt it.
Anet is following orders from NCSoft, and NCSoft is following orders from Nexon.
Based on the money-model differences between GW and GW2 I’d have to agree that it looks more like NCSoft pulling the strings over A-Net.
I don’t know about how many people forum post vs total players, but if you hang out in the starter zones, you don’t hear a lot of praise for the NPE.
That being said, I am OK with it, but with a couple of tweaks. The thing with skill points is kind of silly in my opinion. Also they should just drop the intro instance. It’s just a waste of time now, unless you are so dense that you need a whole instance to learn movement and camera controls.
I vote for toggling leveling changes. I will gladly give up my ‘amazing’ “NEW LEVEL REWARDS” for the old system… You can have every single ‘reward’ I get from leveling, which are for the most part nothing new than what you started out with.
There is nothing “New” or “Rewarding” from the new system. Its complete trash… please take it back and give me back my ability to play the game freely.
GG Alts 09/09/14
Sept 09 patch, killed me and my wife’s alt experience…
Sept 09 patch, killed me and my wife’s alt experience…
Oddly the NPE gear has slots, but there’s no place in the NPE where they give you something and explain how to slot it.
Glaring oversight.
Their game is losing ground? Evidence?
Megaserver.
Constant twiddling with/recycling of existing content.
Occasional splashes of new content (that at least is no longer quite so temporary).
Some might also cite the /e trumpets Return of the CDIs.
The table is a fable.
Or, it could be NCSoft directing them to implement said design decisions.
I don’t really believe that, but it’s just as plausible as thinking what they do is contrary to NCSoft’s wishes.
ANet is touted as the most autonomous studio with in NCSoft, while being the only studio with which such a high degree of poor design decisions can be attributed to.
The autonomy is great, a long as the studio is productive. When a trend seems to be developing were quality of work product continues to drop and major missteps become more frequent, eventually something has to give in the relationship between the parent and the child.
IMO, at launch, GW2 had about 80% of what it needed to become an MMO with sustained growth rates and $billion potential. The path towards increasing that percentage were obvious and the core game was very conducive as a foundation for future success.
In the two years since launch, ANet has ignored the obvious and committed to a path for the game that has diminished the game’s financial potential to a massive degree. Instead of growing, the game is shrinking or even imploding. When you start out with the best MMO is a decade and turn it into what it has become, you start attaching dollar figures to those failures that could realistically equate to the loss of hundreds of millions of dollars of potential revenue.
I don’t know that NCSoft taking a heavy hand in trying to force a correction would make things better, but it definitely couldn’t make things worse. ANet seems in serious need of an intervention and with the voice of fans falling on deaf ears and a blind eye turned to the financial consequences that quantify their degree of failure, NCSoft is probably the only one that has any chance of turning things around.
Things now seem completely dysfunctional and one can’t expect to continue on in that state and achieve better results.
I don’t know…. That’s certainly your opinion, and you have the absolute right to it, but I’m not sure the facts support it. Regardless, I’m sure the only ones who truly know are the parties involved.
I have given the changes a few days myself to set in and I am still non too thrilled about them. As someone who has played the game for a while now and likes to reroll toons so I can go exploring again, locking everything on me is a hindrance. Part of the fun for me has always been getting a new weapon and then unlocking it as I go hunting for vistas, grabbing skill points, and just exploring. Now, to me, starting a new toon seems to be an exercise in severe hand holding which I do not like. If you are going to keep these changes to help the new players, can you at least give those of us who have an idea what we are doing the option to, say, start at level 10 or somewhere along the line so we can jump back into the game instead of getting bogged down in the tutorials? Please stop “fixing” things which are not broken.
Their game is losing ground? Evidence?
Megaserver.
Constant twiddling with/recycling of existing content.
Occasional splashes of new content (that at least is no longer quite so temporary).Some might also cite the /e trumpets Return of the CDIs.
None of this is evidence for losing ground, unless you already have a bias looking at it. Mega server is an efficiency measure. Companies become more efficient whether theyr’e doing well or not. Having a bunch of servers with small numbers of people on them is wasteful. Plenty of content came out, much of it temporary. That was a design flaw. If all that stuff was still in the game we wouldn’t have the complaints we have now.
The CDIs came back as a direct result of player complaints based largely on the removal of content.
Most of the ones screaming about how terrible these changes are have not actually played the changes themselves.
Source please?
You’re doing the same thing you’re accusing other people of – assuming.
I, uh, quoted the guy specifically saying it….if that doesn’t count as source then I don’t know what you are asking. Do you want source code?
He was referring to this statement: Most of the ones screaming about how terrible these changes are have not actually played the changes themselves. , you know, the statement that he actually quoted. One person <> “most of the ones screaming about the patch.”
I guess the “most” part of my comment would be the assumption; but I clearly cited an example of what I’m claiming. Versus, you know, saying something is terrible and then admitting you’ve never even tried it…
Well, why could you claim “most” if you weren’t accusing “most” people of not playing the game? And it seems like quite a few people got that impression. Perhaps you should rethink your argument if that wasn’t what you meant.
They know far more about the game and the players than anyone complaining about the changes does.
Nope. They dont. That’s why their game is losing ground, and above all thing, i think Anet is somekind of hardcore masochist.
And for these mindless fanboys : Keep it real, until you’ll realize, that this game is no longer the same game from 2 years ago.
Their game is losing ground? Evidence?
Their game is doing what almost all MMOs have to deal with in their lifetime. It’s dealing with aging. During the last quarter both ESO and Wildstar were released. I don’t really think, all things considered, they’re losing ground as fast as you think.
And yes, this game is NOT the same game from two years ago. 100% true. In some ways it’s better and some ways it’s worth. 2 years ago, we had neither fractals nor drytop, both of which I like. There were far more bugs back then then there are now. And a lot of the game has fundamentally changed. If you like the changes, the game is better than it was, and if you don’t like the changes, the game is worse.
But you know, I can’t think of any MMO I’ve ever played that was fundamentally the same two years after launch. Not one.
Hell, games like Final Fantasy had to be closed down and rewritten completely. Star Wars ToR went free to play. They’re making major changes to ESO and moved the launch of the console back because of it. Even Archeage has had fundamental changes from 1.0 to 1.2
most successful mmos begin an upward trend after about 2 years. they keep most old players, and bring some new ones, the drop off is what happens after the initial game hits. Then the strong ones build playerbase for a long time, till they get old and die.
look at ff14 ARR, its not everyones cup of tea, but its playerbase is growing, not shrinking.
look at WoW year 2.
sure a lot of failing edge case mmo continue to bleed players until they die, or have to do some huge change to adapt, if they successfully adapt, they then start gaining ground and getting more players. like lotro swtor, lineage, etc.
point is, losing players/profits at this point is not expected, its a sign of something going wrong.
How they adapt to the bleed, will determine the future of the game.
They know far more about the game and the players than anyone complaining about the changes does.
Nope. They dont. That’s why their game is losing ground, and above all thing, i think Anet is somekind of hardcore masochist.
And for these mindless fanboys : Keep it real, until you’ll realize, that this game is no longer the same game from 2 years ago.
Their game is losing ground? Evidence?
Their game is doing what almost all MMOs have to deal with in their lifetime. It’s dealing with aging. During the last quarter both ESO and Wildstar were released. I don’t really think, all things considered, they’re losing ground as fast as you think.
And yes, this game is NOT the same game from two years ago. 100% true. In some ways it’s better and some ways it’s worth. 2 years ago, we had neither fractals nor drytop, both of which I like. There were far more bugs back then then there are now. And a lot of the game has fundamentally changed. If you like the changes, the game is better than it was, and if you don’t like the changes, the game is worse.
But you know, I can’t think of any MMO I’ve ever played that was fundamentally the same two years after launch. Not one.
Hell, games like Final Fantasy had to be closed down and rewritten completely. Star Wars ToR went free to play. They’re making major changes to ESO and moved the launch of the console back because of it. Even Archeage has had fundamental changes from 1.0 to 1.2
most successful mmos begin an upward trend after about 2 years. they keep most old players, and bring some new ones, the drop off is what happens after the initial game hits. Then the strong ones build playerbase for a long time, till they get old and die.
look at ff14 ARR, its not everyones cup of tea, but its playerbase is growing, not shrinking.
look at WoW year 2.sure a lot of failing edge case mmo continue to bleed players until they die, or have to do some huge change to adapt, if they successfully adapt, they then start gaining ground and getting more players. like lotro swtor, lineage, etc.
point is, losing players/profits at this point is not expected, its a sign of something going wrong.
How they adapt to the bleed, will determine the future of the game.
Final fantasy had to close completely and relaunch. It’s now starting to come into it’s own, but how many people are actually playing? Do you know?
I suspect Guild Wars 2 is doing about as well as Final Fantasy. The Raptr numbers seem to support that anyway. Still waiting for this months to come out.
Did you know: Previously, when a player leveled, they would gain a small amount of stats every level; now you gain a lot every six levels starting with level four. This is what’s known as the “stat burst.”
These stats had to come from somewhere though. It isn’t a bonus; just a redistribution. It’s an illusion of “rewarding leveling” because the reward is denied and given later on. Players now experience another phenomena called a “stat slump” where they are the weakest a few levels prior to their “stat burst.” This has pretty severely compromised the leveling curve. Before, it was fine to tackle a creature one or two levels above you. However, if you try to do so now during a “stat slump” it can be the equivalent of fighting something 3-5 levels higher than you. This is why for some players there are Personal Story missions that seem much harder now than before.
Most of the changes made were done in haste. Don’t believe me? Did you know that bulk amounts of Apples and all sources of Green Beans were simply deleted from their game as they carelessly removed Karma items from the starting areas? This shows there wasn’t any system in place to even check once if there was any sort of consequence to their action. (Heaven forbid they try double-checking!) ArenaNet has become renown though for deleting things, like entire Personal Story chapters inexplicably.
Their game is losing ground? Evidence?
Megaserver.
Constant twiddling with/recycling of existing content.
Occasional splashes of new content (that at least is no longer quite so temporary).Some might also cite the /e trumpets Return of the CDIs.
Mega server is an efficiency measure. Companies become more efficient whether theyr’e doing well or not. Having a bunch of servers with small numbers of people on them is wasteful.
So, small numbers of people on a server isn’t evidence that of…small numbers of people?
You’re starting to go all 1984 double-speak now.
I think the whole point, is that those servers have small numbers of people because people left the game – they quit.
Thus the megaserver.
The megaserver is evidence that people are leaving the game.
So what’s your point? More whitewashing…….
They know far more about the game and the players than anyone complaining about the changes does.
Nope. They dont. That’s why their game is losing ground, and above all thing, i think Anet is somekind of hardcore masochist.
And for these mindless fanboys : Keep it real, until you’ll realize, that this game is no longer the same game from 2 years ago.
Their game is losing ground? Evidence?
Their game is doing what almost all MMOs have to deal with in their lifetime. It’s dealing with aging. During the last quarter both ESO and Wildstar were released. I don’t really think, all things considered, they’re losing ground as fast as you think.
And yes, this game is NOT the same game from two years ago. 100% true. In some ways it’s better and some ways it’s worth. 2 years ago, we had neither fractals nor drytop, both of which I like. There were far more bugs back then then there are now. And a lot of the game has fundamentally changed. If you like the changes, the game is better than it was, and if you don’t like the changes, the game is worse.
But you know, I can’t think of any MMO I’ve ever played that was fundamentally the same two years after launch. Not one.
Hell, games like Final Fantasy had to be closed down and rewritten completely. Star Wars ToR went free to play. They’re making major changes to ESO and moved the launch of the console back because of it. Even Archeage has had fundamental changes from 1.0 to 1.2
most successful mmos begin an upward trend after about 2 years. they keep most old players, and bring some new ones, the drop off is what happens after the initial game hits. Then the strong ones build playerbase for a long time, till they get old and die.
look at ff14 ARR, its not everyones cup of tea, but its playerbase is growing, not shrinking.
look at WoW year 2.sure a lot of failing edge case mmo continue to bleed players until they die, or have to do some huge change to adapt, if they successfully adapt, they then start gaining ground and getting more players. like lotro swtor, lineage, etc.
point is, losing players/profits at this point is not expected, its a sign of something going wrong.
How they adapt to the bleed, will determine the future of the game.Final fantasy had to close completely and relaunch. It’s now starting to come into it’s own, but how many people are actually playing? Do you know?
I suspect Guild Wars 2 is doing about as well as Final Fantasy. The Raptr numbers seem to support that anyway. Still waiting for this months to come out.
like i said, once you have a good forumla, and after your initial craze, mmos doing well increase their playerbase/ or maintain it.
FFXIV ARR is a sub based game, they are maintaining old subs, and adding new ones. They have more active acounts now, than they had after 3 months into the games relaunch.
Also note FFXIV, it was actually completely and totally a different game. Zones changed, main plotline is totally seperate, battle system is totally different. At best you can consider it a sequel.
point remains, number going down is not normal unless you have a cyclic upswing. It means something is wrong, this isnt the after launch effect anymore, these trends represent the long term effects of the games current design trends. Unless something big changes, the game is bleeding.
Now, if you are optimistic, that thing is an expansion, and it may totally alter the prospective, however nothing they have actually said points directly to an expansion, and even then, one has to wonder, what type of expansion would bring back the most old players, satisfy current players, and attract new players.
Does it feel like the design decsions show that they know how to keep old players/attract new players? I dont feel that the releases from this year are doing this well.
The reason people are so sour on the changes this year, is because it feels like the game is going in the wrong direction for many people. Its not just one thing, its the overall package, many have taken a wait and see approach, and now that we are 9 months into this year, i dont think it has been satisfying update wise for many people.
I think that the only way to get back old players is with expansion level content, so i didnt include it in the goal of the current updates.
Did you know: Previously, when a player leveled, they would gain a small amount of stats every level; now you gain a lot every six levels starting with level four. This is what’s known as the “stat burst.”
These stats had to come from somewhere though. It isn’t a bonus; just a redistribution. It’s an illusion of “rewarding leveling” because the reward is denied and given later on. Players now experience another phenomena called a “stat slump” where they are the weakest a few levels prior to their “stat burst.” This has pretty severely compromised the leveling curve. Before, it was fine to tackle a creature one or two levels above you. However, if you try to do so now during a “stat slump” it can be the equivalent of fighting something 3-5 levels higher than you. This is why for some players there are Personal Story missions that seem much harder now than before.
Most of the changes made were done in haste. Don’t believe me? Did you know that bulk amounts of Apples and all sources of Green Beans were simply deleted from their game as they carelessly removed Karma items from the starting areas? This shows there wasn’t any system in place to even check once if there was any sort of consequence to their action. (Heaven forbid they try double-checking!) ArenaNet has become renown though for deleting things, like entire Personal Story chapters inexplicably.
i didnt know that about the apples, but it fits with what i have noticed. A lot of these changes dont interact well with the pre existing systems.
for example every classes f1-f4 skills are not equal. Warriors unlock the full power of their profession skill with one f1 unlock, mesmers do not. Engineers dont become full engineers until level 36.
offhand weapons are a basic part of thief weapon skills. The skills in the 3 slot are basically weakened versions of dual skills.
the system treats everyone the same, when everyone is not the same, you see the same thing with trait unlocks, some people have key unlocks easy, and some people have key unlocks hard
the list goes on, but the fact is that many of these changes are not well integrated, and the seams are showing.
Their game is losing ground? Evidence?
Megaserver.
Constant twiddling with/recycling of existing content.
Occasional splashes of new content (that at least is no longer quite so temporary).Some might also cite the /e trumpets Return of the CDIs.
Mega server is an efficiency measure. Companies become more efficient whether theyr’e doing well or not. Having a bunch of servers with small numbers of people on them is wasteful.
So, small numbers of people on a server isn’t evidence that of…small numbers of people?
You’re starting to go all 1984 double-speak now.
I think the whole point, is that those servers have small numbers of people because people left the game – they quit.
Thus the megaserver.
The megaserver is evidence that people are leaving the game.
So what’s your point? More whitewashing…….
Do you think WoW is a successful MMO? Strangely enough WoW has dead zones on many servers and has had for a long time. Why? Because people tend to congregate in specific zones. This is true in every MMORPG I’ve ever made. So if this game is failing because of few people in zones, then all MMORPGs are failing because of few people in zones.
Here you go, WoW did it too. Cross realm zones for low pop zones:
http://wowpedia.org/Cross-realm_zones
Do you know any MMOs more successful than WoW? I don’t. And they had to have cross realm zones too, because certain zones are dead.
Guild Wars 2 had a larger number of servers and a large number of zones. The zones are quite convoluted. You could have more people in a zone in a nearby cave and never know they’re there.
So yeah, unless you can come up with an MMO more popular than World of Warcraft, I think we’re done here.
So yeah, unless you can come up with an MMO more popular than World of Warcraft, I think we’re done here.
Oh so we’re appealing to popularity now, are we? I’m fine with this, actually. Did you know WoW went and revamped its leveling experience in the Cataclysm expansion and that expansion is touted as a failure primarily as a result of it? It ended up not bringing in new players as they expected.
For all of their billions-of-dollar success, Blizzard does not have unlimited labor and resources. Their focus on revamping their leveling process ended up hurting the quality and quantity of their raid content. Their first raids all had bosses that were buggy or easily exploited; their second raid had only seven bosses; and their final raid had most of the instance set in a zone from a previous expansion, with most bosses not using unique models.
ArenaNet is a much smaller company than Blizzard. However, they decided to revamp their leveling experience in less than two years after their launch; WoW did it six years after theirs. Just like WoW, revamping the leveling experience came at a cost to creating content for veteran players.
So yeah, unless you can come up with an MMO more popular than World of Warcraft, I think we’re done here.
Oh so we’re appealing to popularity now, are we? I’m fine with this, actually. Did you know WoW went and revamped its leveling experience in the Cataclysm expansion and that expansion is touted as a failure primarily as a result of it? It ended up not bringing in new players as they expected.
For all of their billion-dollar success, Blizzard does not have unlimited labor and resources. Their focus on revamping their leveling process ended up hurting the quality and quantity of their raid content. Their first raids all had bosses that were buggy or easily exploited; their second raid had only seven bosses; and their final raid had most of the instance set in a zone from a previous expansion, with most bosses not using unique models.
ArenaNet is a much smaller company than Blizzard. However, they decided to revamp their leveling experience in less than two years after their launch; WoW did it six years after theirs. Just like WoW, revamping the leveling experience came at a cost to content that veteran players would enjoy.
No I’m not playing the popularity card. I was replying directly to someone who said that Anet has megaservers, so therefore it had empty zones, so therefore it must be doing badly.
None of this follows. If the most popular MMO has empty zones, then saying that another game is doing badly because it has empty zones is a red herring. And that’s all I was really saying. Empty zones (particularly mid level zones) in an MMO are not an indication of the MMO’s health.
I’d love to see a quote from Blizzard saying that the new starter zones were responsible for the drop in popularity. Because I attribute it to a lot of other things. New starting zones were not among them.
Most of the changes made were done in haste. Don’t believe me? Did you know that bulk amounts of Apples and all sources of Green Beans were simply deleted from their game as they carelessly removed Karma items from the starting areas?
Bold claims. You better be careful with that. Vayne might find out that you are wrong and spreading misinformation, and then claim that he should question all of your forum posts because you made a couple of false claims.
For that matter, I hope Vayne does test this in-game. People have been saying that you can only buy apples one at a time now, and that there is no longer anywhere to get green beans.
I’m sure Vayne will swoop in shortly to correct you. You are almost certainly wrong about there no longer being any way to get green beans. Even the wiki says that you can get green beans as a possible drop from Mawdrey II
Most of the changes made were done in haste. Don’t believe me? Did you know that bulk amounts of Apples and all sources of Green Beans were simply deleted from their game as they carelessly removed Karma items from the starting areas?
Bold claims. You better be careful with that. Vayne might find out that you are wrong and spreading misinformation, and then claim that he should question all of your forum posts because you made a couple of false claims.
For that matter, I hope Vayne does test this in-game. People have been saying that you can only buy apples one at a time now, and that there is no longer anywhere to get green beans.
I’m sure Vayne will swoop in shortly to correct you. You are almost certainly wrong about there no longer being any way to get green beans. Even the wiki says that you can get green beans as a possible drop from Mawdrey II
You’re so cute when you try to justify talking about a patch you haven’t even tested.
If it’s a fact that it’s true (and I don’t know if it is or isn’t) I have no problem with it. It’s entirely possible that NPCs were removed from starting areas. I just don’t know if they’ve been moved anywhere else yet.
So, as you’ve probably noticed ANet, a very big part of the community is unhappy about some of the changes introduced by the feature pack, including:
- New leveling system
- Personal story rework
- Re-introducing bugs
- Camera auto-adjusting and moving on its own will
- Gone minis
- Non-sense nerf on particular skills
- Breaking auto-login
- Stealth changes to HotW story mode, CoE story mode, Arah Path 2, toggling the paths to be impossible to complete
- Stealth changes to Twilight Arbor Up where the Nightmare Tree doesn’t do AoE spike attack and the number of Nightmare turrets is significantly reduced
- Stealth changes to Fractals
As well as not addressing problems that have been around:
- No rework on the terrible traits system
- Bugs that have been reported repeatedly and are yet not fixed
And if I have to be honest about the feature pack, I have to admit that I’m absolutely loving the fact that you merged guild instances that were spread out, but apart from that, the whole feature pack seems more like “Lets get stuff out while throwing dust in their eyes by changing the UI”
As a QA team leader in an IT company and a passionate PvE player of GW2, I have one very simple question to ask: What does your QA/Testing team consist of? There’s no way, a person could miss the newly introduced Arah pt2 bug. The only logical explanation to me would be that either your team performed very simple unit testing and passed on the regression testing as a whole or that they’re the worst PvE players I’ve seen if they can’t do the skip to Belka (Solution: Give them guardians running in full nomad and 4 hours so they can kill all the mobs to Belka if you have to!).
Please, ANet, realize that many of the changes are unwanted and unnecessary. I love this game so much that I used to spend 10+ hours per day on it but now I just feel disappointed and discouraged to play it any longer. Please, listen to your player base.
Regards,
Winter
Oh, I thought I was the only one with a broken auto-login.. that’s my only problem.