Guild Wars 2

I know that Superior Runes of Strength are all the craze right now for PvE.

(1): +25 Power
(2): +10% Might Duration
(3): +50 Power
(4): 15% Might duration; 25% chance when struck to gain Might for 10 seconds. (Cooldown: 5s)
(5): +100 Power
(6): +20% Might duration; +7% damage while under the effects of Might.

They add 45% Might duration, which, if you’re a Might stacking class, adds quite a bit of DPS overall. On top of that you get the 7% static bonus damage while under the effect of Might. No doubt this is a first-class choice for classes capable of reliably stacking and maintaining Might.

But not all classes are capable of doing that. Some can’t procc Might reliably, don’t want to use a Sigil of Battle or just want an alternative set.

Well I present you with Superior Runes of the Pack:

(1): +25 Power
(2): +10% Swiftness Duration
(3): +50 Power
(4): 25% chance when struck to grant nearby allies Might, Fury and Swiftness for 10s (Cooldown: 20s).
(5): +100 Power
(6): +20% Swiftness Duration; +125 Precision

Ok, so why might this be better?

First off, the Power bonus is identical on both sets and will be ignored for the rest of the argument, as will be Swiftness duration since….well it’s Swiftness.

Second, the 125 Precision as a final bonus, equates to 6% Precision. Assuming you are not already at 100% Precision this should equal the 7% flat damage bonus as long as your Critical Damage modifier is above ~215%. For most classes in Berserker gear this is the case, as Berserker gear typically leaves you with 225% Critical Damage modifier.

So, assuming you are full Zerker, have >215% Critical Damage and are below the Precision cap then 125 Precision should beat our the 7% static increase offered by the Runes of Strength.

So now it comes down to the 4-piece bonus.

The Strength bonus adds a few personal Might stacks on a very generous cooldown and should amount to a few extra Might stacks throughout any given fight.

However the Runes of the Pack also add Might, Fury and Swiftness to the entire group, on a 20 second cooldown. This includes all Phantasms, Pets and other arbitrary creatures or allies you might have. Having two people with this Rune-set in your group should basically ensure perma Fury, perma Swiftness and a few added Might stacks in any given fight.

And this perma Fury especially may allow you to spec out of other sources of Fury in your trait-line and invest those points elsewhere. Mesmers can skip Phantasmal Fury for example or Thieves could skip Thrill of the Crime since now they essentially have the same as a passive procc.

So I’m not claiming this rune set will outperform Runes of Strength on a spreadsheet, especially against a Might stacking class. But I do claim it holds it’s own as a very competitive DPS Rune-set, especially in group situations.

Yes, he’s right. Stop buying Strength runes and look at alternatives!

Mate, it’s the craze of the masses. Some “pro” says they’re cool and everyone starts using them. Then we reach the “meta” kitten and a game becomes boring.
What I loved about GW1 was diversity, which in this game is, unfortunately, lacking.

As a phantasm mesmer, will Pack be better for me if I have cavalier accessories, berserker armor, and legendary weapons (i dunno which stats to take, can be cavalier or zerk) than scholar or strength?

You should just make some corrections which I assume are typos. 125 Precision doesn’t equal 6% Precision, its 6% Critical chance (21 points of Precision on lvl 80 for 1% Critical chance). The same goes for the sentence that follows, 100% Precision should be 100% Critical chance.

As for the topic itself I’d argue that Pack runes are more efficient in real combat because its still 25% chance to get Might, Fury and Swiftness while Strength runes add permanent 25% longer duration of existing Might and a 7% increase to damage which is guaranteed. Since most of zerker builds, especially warriors, have the means to create Might I’d rather go for sure thing than risk going into downed or defeated while waiting for RNG to proc. Additionally having a guardian with Empower which grants a secure source of Might and additional protection through virtues seems like a far better reason for me to use Strength runes instead of Pack. As for swiftness I don’t know, most zerkers (warriors to be precise) take banners which really cover the field with perma swiftness by using #3 interchangeably so I am not sure how would that benefit in any way for lets say dungeons or general PvE.

But in the end what really matters is the group itself. A few percent of stats won’t matter much if someone in your group can’t handle zerk builds or is stubborn.

i swear most of these threads seem like advertisements by TP rune traders. But yeah strength, while good isnt all that, and is based around your might stacking. However might stacking is probably one of the more potent means of DPS since the critical nerf.
Pack is also a really good set id say. full power with a nice dose of precision. and decent uptime/party synergy.

Saying straight up “this one is better” isn’t gonna fix or change anything.

So youre telling me I want to get hit…. :P

hoelbrak and fire are also very decent alternatives to strength runes.

I personally don’t use might stacking because to me it’s not only too expensive but not all classes have the faster run speed outside of combat. I hate running at normal speed and I cannot stand that this game doesn’t have mounts so I’m using Runes of the Traveler with options for adding minor boons when using my skills. It’s worked out well so far, I generally don’t have any issues however I’m also using an all condition build so I don’t follow the crowd anyhow. I’m also not one who speed runs dungeons so… there you have it.

I like the travelers runes because it increased the durations of both boons and conditions and it gives me faster run speed. I do use sigil of strength however because only certain non-condition builds give might for engineers and I generally don’t like using potions I prefer explosives/pistol combo with gadgets like mines and rocket boots.

If you like might stacking I say go for it but personally I don’t think the second set is worth it to me because of the fact that there’s no extended duration on that runes of the pack for conditions which when I did try an all might stacking build (for engis it was firearms/alchemy with FT) i found that I struggled to keep might up out of combat without the extended duration.

Pack might be interesting for PvD/PvP, but not for PvE. You don’t want to get hit in most group content, so the 4th bonus is moot. Either go for strength, if you play an LH ele and probably some few other builds, or go directly for scholar as usual.

“the 125 Precision as a final bonus, equates to 6% Precision. Assuming you are not already at 100% Precision this should equal the 7% flat damage bonus as long as your Critical Damage modifier is above ~215%. "

I don’t think you understand how damage modifiers work in this game. They are multiplicative. So that 7% actually ends up being more like 11%+.

I have 200% crit damage and 74% crit chance with fury before runes.
That’s 1.74x base damage.
I also have 10% damage from zeal2, 5% damage from zeal7, 10% from radiance, 5% from virtues, 10% from potions, 5% from force. That’s 54% more damage in total.

1.74 * 1.54 = 2.679x base damage.

With 125 more precision from Pack runes (crit chance goes up to 80%):
1.8x base damage.
1.8 * 1.54 = 2.772x base damage.

Even if I only consider the 7% damage modifier from the strength runes, the formula becomes this:
1.74 * 1.648 = 2.867x base damage.

So Strength already has Pack beaten for damage without considering the 45% longer might duration and proc. The Pack proc is pointless because your elementalist should provide perma fury. You don’t even need to be a might stacking class for runes of strength to outclass runes of the pack, you only need 1 single might boon.

Finally it’s “when struck”. You don’t really want to be taking any hits in a high level fractal. Archdiviner for example will just oneshot you.

Runes of Scholar are even better dps if you can maintain the 90% hp. I’ve found that Runes of Strength need to give you on average ~5 stacks of might more than normal to yield the same level of dps, which I find unlikely.

Who needs runes of strength/pack when you can run with an s/d ele?

Realist.5812:

Who needs runes of strength/pack when you can run with an s/d ele?

Other seven professions?

holodoc.5748:

Realist.5812:

Who needs runes of strength/pack when you can run with an s/d ele?

Other seven professions?

And those 7 professions can run alongside an s/d ele.

CptAurellian.9537:

Pack might be interesting for PvD/PvP, but not for PvE. You don’t want to get hit in most group content, so the 4th bonus is moot. Either go for strength, if you play an LH ele and probably some few other builds, or go directly for scholar as usual.

You don’t want to get hit does not mean you don’t get hit. You’ll inevitably be proc’ing the 4 set even in PVE.
At the very least, the many encounters where the default strat is to stack around a corner will find the 4 set used.

Have you all just considered what a warrior does with the vitality phalanx trait?

It renders all might bonusses useless. as the 1 warrior can keep 20-25 stack of might up ALL the time for his team… (forceful GS , FGJ and Signet of rage., any might from combo’s could be very useful as well)

PaxTheGreatOne.9472:

Have you all just considered what a warrior does with the vitality phalanx trait?

It renders all might bonusses useless. as the 1 warrior can keep 20-25 stack of might up ALL the time for his team… (forceful GS , FGJ and Signet of rage., any might from combo’s could be very useful as well)

That phalanx trait is toxic to grouping with a competent might stacker. It only grants a base 6 second single stack might each time versus an ele with just a set of strength runes giving 30+ seconds in multiples of 3×. Just like the aweful boon given by forceful greatsword thats an even worse 5 seconds. I’m just glad they buffed axe/* builds this patch with the extra dual weild trait so I can retire my greatsword to just showing off in cities.

As to the OP: strength is still the best but please by all means talk up other sets so I can get them for cheaper.

DonQuack.9025:

So youre telling me I want to get hit…. :P

Considering the 4-piece bonus on the Runes of Strength is procced by being hit I consider that a moot point.

I think it’s fairly likely to be hit once every 20 seconds in any given fight. But getting hit every 5 seconds, as the Runes of Strength would ask for, is a tall order unless you’re stacking.

fadeaway.2807:

“the 125 Precision as a final bonus, equates to 6% Precision. Assuming you are not already at 100% Precision this should equal the 7% flat damage bonus as long as your Critical Damage modifier is above ~215%. "

I don’t think you understand how damage modifiers work in this game. They are multiplicative. So that 7% actually ends up being more like 11%+.

I have 200% crit damage and 74% crit chance with fury before runes.
That’s 1.74x base damage.
I also have 10% damage from zeal2, 5% damage from zeal7, 10% from radiance, 5% from virtues, 10% from potions, 5% from force. That’s 54% more damage in total.

1.74 * 1.54 = 2.679x base damage.

With 125 more precision from Pack runes (crit chance goes up to 80%):
1.8x base damage.
1.8 * 1.54 = 2.772x base damage.

Even if I only consider the 7% damage modifier from the strength runes, the formula becomes this:
1.74 * 1.648 = 2.867x base damage.

So Strength already has Pack beaten for damage without considering the 45% longer might duration and proc. The Pack proc is pointless because your elementalist should provide perma fury. You don’t even need to be a might stacking class for runes of strength to outclass runes of the pack, you only need 1 single might boon.

Finally it’s “when struck”. You don’t really want to be taking any hits in a high level fractal. Archdiviner for example will just oneshot you.

Runes of Scholar are even better dps if you can maintain the 90% hp. I’ve found that Runes of Strength need to give you on average ~5 stacks of might more than normal to yield the same level of dps, which I find unlikely.

Well your Ferocity is below the threshold I pointed out.

Take 225% Crit-Damage x 0.74 = 1.925 times base-damage.

And 1.925 × 1.54 = 2,9645 times base-damage.

You maths seems awfully complex for something so straight forward. A 7% flat increase should affect you identically, regardless of build (as long as it’s a power build).

In order for Precision to win out, 6% Critical Strike chance have to beat out 7% raw DPS. And 7/6 = 1,16 so Precision wins out once you have more than 216,6% Critical Damage.

Obviously, your simplified math fails to capture the whole picture. When I run 6 % crit chance versus 7 % damage multiplier through an effective power calculator, the multiplier wins by a fair margin. And that’s at 240 % crit damage, not below your threshold.

Could do some real-world testing:
Heart of the mists → 6/0/0/0/6 with amulet of choice→ turn on ‘Heightened Focus’ only and test damage → turn on ’Berserker’s Power’ only and test damage → compare damage output.
Both add 15% of their respective multiplier, same amulet, same traits, same runes (none).

Why are strength runes so expensive when scholar is higher dps for every class except arguably Ele and Ranger?

Dash.7108:

Why are strength runes so expensive when scholar is higher dps for every class except arguably Ele and Ranger?

Ele and Engineer you mean?

I don’t play engi so I suppose making a blanket statement was dumb, let me rephrase: why don’t people use scholar when it’s the highest dps for thief, mes , guard , war, necro, and arguably ele and ranger.

Probably because you can craft scholar, but not strength.