SAB temporary content - sincere question

SAB temporary content - sincere question

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Posted by: Dondarrion.2748

Dondarrion.2748

Dear Anet,

SAB is content that GW2 players has been deprived of for 3 years, and is there one thing GW2 has been deprived of the past 6 months since HoT, it’s fresh content, and before that it went another 9+ months without content updates between end of LS2 and HoT launch.

What is the harm of leaving SAB in as permanent content for everyone to enjoy at their leisure?

You have yourself also acknowledged a lack of content lately and are moving teams around and neglecting development of certain aspects of the game to favour new content (raids + LS3), but isn’t another quick remedy to keep SAB in.

Everybody loves it, and it’s not particularly Easter/April Fools-bound to be categorized as a festival like Halloween, Wintersday, etc. that are counterparts with distinct seasonal application. SAB is just a crowd pleaser, people can enjoy world 1&2 and the tribulation modes, and right now with ongoing PvP leagues, people can’t focus both and have to neglect stuff in game.

Your previous arguments about not adding too many new zones or too much new content in fear of spreading your player base too thin is no longer valid; the spreading players thin now is due to players leaving the game out of lack of content. As such, leaving SAB in as permanent content only has positives.

So, sincere question to you, Anet, why is it that SAB only returns for a short while only to be enjoyed by a handful?

AND it cannot be justified it’s about skin exclusivity/achievements, because for all other previous exclusive skins you have released new NPC vendors with one-off events to acquire those again. So why should SAB skins be in a different category…

Lord Sazed / Hasla the Huntress / Seaguard Hala
Seamarshal Belit / Initiate Xun Tsu / Mistwarden Roshone
Seafarer’s Rest | Northerner @ Dragon Season

(edited by Dondarrion.2748)

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Posted by: leviathan.2148

leviathan.2148

Very interesting arguments, I haven’t looked at it this way.

For me SAB is not important but I always support more of an available content. So yeah, why not permanent?

I am an engineer – a pianist of destruction! Now please go back to standing in my AOE.

http://wpwhendead.tumblr.com - a GW2 webcomic about a Charr and a Skritt

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Posted by: Ranael.6423

Ranael.6423

SAB is only a cool feature because it is temporary. Anet understood quite early that temp content is the best experience for players hence all LS1.
How many speak about Marionette as the most exciting boss they fought in GW2? Yet when Vinewrath was was released, everybody mentioned how it reminds the Marionette… but after 6 months few people still care about it.
Tower of Nightmare was super fun ! But it was just a zerg fest in a small map. The fact it lasted only 2 weeks makes it one of the funniest experience in the game.

If you want to continue to love SAB so much, it is better that it remains a temporary content.

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Posted by: drunkenpilot.9837

drunkenpilot.9837

Permanent would be great, but that will never happen. I’m actually coming to like the fact that it’s evolved into a festival now. This means guaranteed SAB each year, and with that, I’m fairly certain we’ll see new guild hall decorations and potentially new skins and achievements released in subsequent years.

Personally, I’m hoping they decide to be generous to us and simply extend it by another week. One more week of SAB! If they surprised us with that at the last minute, people would be giddy to have a slight extension to finish up their achieves or grind out more baubles for guild hall decorations. Folks would love it!

Similarly, this would give the devs an extra week of content creation/balance/bugfixes/etc that they wouldn’t have had, and likely allowing them to throw another layer of polish on whatever incoming build they have in store for us. Even if the upcoming patch is already finalized, this would provide the dev team a bit of time to “work ahead,” as it were, on larger ongoing projects or get a few errant tasks completed.

It’s a win/win!

Chant with me now, bookahs: “One more week! One more week!”

(edited by drunkenpilot.9837)

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Posted by: CrashTestAuto.9108

CrashTestAuto.9108

SAB is only a cool feature because it is temporary. Anet understood quite early that temp content is the best experience for players hence all LS1.
How many speak about Marionette as the most exciting boss they fought in GW2? Yet when Vinewrath was was released, everybody mentioned how it reminds the Marionette… but after 6 months few people still care about it.
Tower of Nightmare was super fun ! But it was just a zerg fest in a small map. The fact it lasted only 2 weeks makes it one of the funniest experience in the game.

If you want to continue to love SAB so much, it is better that it remains a temporary content.

LS1 failed because it was temporary. That’s why LS2 was permanent, and then the LS model was replaced with an expansion model.

People still fight Vinewraith. Heck, Dry Top and the Silverwastes are two of the best things to come out of the Living World. They still get played today. Yes, the Marionette is remembered fondly, but that’s because it was part of a bigger and more exciting world, with constant updates. Not because it was temporary. Tequatl still gets killed many times a day, and it’s arguable a less interesting fight.

As to SAB only being a cool feature because it’s temporary, that’s just not true. It’s also weird how many of the people invested in keeping SAB turned off seem to be people who don’t actually like it that much. I don’t love WvW, but I don’t try and get it shut down eleven months of the year.

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Posted by: Turtle Dragon.9241

Turtle Dragon.9241

Dear Anet,

SAB is content that GW2 players has been deprived of for 3 years, and is there one thing GW2 has been deprived of the past 6 months since HoT, it’s fresh content, and before that it went another 9+ months without content updates between end of LS2 and HoT launch.

What is the harm of leaving SAB in as permanent content for everyone to enjoy at their leisure?

You have yourself also acknowledged a lack of content lately and are moving teams around and neglecting development of certain aspects of the game to favour new content (raids + LS3), but isn’t another quick remedy to keep SAB in.

Everybody loves it, and it’s not particularly Easter/April Fools-bound to be categorized as a festival like Halloween, Wintersday, etc. that are counterparts with distinct seasonal application. SAB is just a crowd pleaser, people can enjoy world 1&2 and the tribulation modes, and right now with ongoing PvP leagues, people can’t focus both and have to neglect stuff in game.

Your previous arguments about not adding too many new zones or too much new content in fear of spreading your player base too thin is no longer valid; the spreading players thin now is due to players leaving the game out of lack of content. As such, leaving SAB in as permanent content only has positives.

So, sincere question to you, Anet, why is it that SAB only returns for a short while only to be enjoyed by a handful?

AND it cannot be justified it’s about skin exclusivity/achievements, because for all other previous exclusive skins you have released new NPC vendors with one-off events to acquire those again. So why should SAB skins be in a different category…

All your arguments are valid, and I would like SAB to remain too. However, the reason why SAB cannot stay permanently has already been answered somewhere(i think last Friday’s Guild Chat?) by the devs: It is very prone to breaking when the game patches. For 2-3 weeks without patch(other than bug fixes) SAB should be okay, but if they keep it permanently, they would have to check SAB every single time they add in new content.

I think the plan is to include SAB once or twice per year, where they only just have to make sure it works fine for that duration and not patch for 2-3 weeks(while we play SAB), and then take it out again with the next big patch.

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Posted by: Ranael.6423

Ranael.6423

LS1 failed because it was temporary. That’s why LS2 was permanent, and then the LS model was replaced with an expansion model.

People still fight Vinewraith. Heck, Dry Top and the Silverwastes are two of the best things to come out of the Living World. They still get played today. Yes, the Marionette is remembered fondly, but that’s because it was part of a bigger and more exciting world, with constant updates. Not because it was temporary. Tequatl still gets killed many times a day, and it’s arguable a less interesting fight.

As to SAB only being a cool feature because it’s temporary, that’s just not true. It’s also weird how many of the people invested in keeping SAB turned off seem to be people who don’t actually like it that much. I don’t love WvW, but I don’t try and get it shut down eleven months of the year.

I do love SAB as much as most people. But what I said are my observations : no permanent content is as praised as non permanent one. The reason underneath is quite simple : when it comes only from time to time it looks fresh. After a month it is “usual content”. Vinewrath is fought everyday sure but nobody I saw in game talked about this fight as one of the best in the game world… it is just one world boss for most people.
If PvP leagues were open all the time, there would not be so much players, because nobody feels the urge of doing it so we’d postpone it to a later time. WvW tournaments were (will be) the same, it attracts players to do thing they would not necessarily do at that moment and by driving so many players together at one time it creates a much more enjoyable experience.
Turn SAB permanent and after 2 or 3 month, less and less people will play it. It will still be enjoyable but not in the same fashion as a festival. Even during the first year when SAB had been available 2 times (April and Sept), the “Back to School” update was less successful (from dev comments at that time).

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Posted by: bananaman.1685

bananaman.1685

Everybody loves it

I don’t. I think it is funny for 5 minutes and then dead content. I just don’t understand why everyone raves about it. It’s a bad parody on a different game genre and I don’t think the devs should spend any more time on it at all. It should have stayed dead and buried imo.

So, please don’t try to speak for everyone.

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Posted by: CrashTestAuto.9108

CrashTestAuto.9108

I don’t. I think it is funny for 5 minutes and then dead content. I just don’t understand why everyone raves about it. It’s a bad parody on a different game genre and I don’t think the devs should spend any more time on it at all. It should have stayed dead and buried imo.

So, please don’t try to speak for everyone.

To be fair, while I agree it is wrong to speak for everyone, you yourself just said that everyone raves about it, but you still don’t think the devs should spend any more time on it. So while you aren’t speaking for everyone, you do seem to be asking the devs to cater specifically to your needs at the expense of everyone else.

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Posted by: CrashTestAuto.9108

CrashTestAuto.9108

I do love SAB as much as most people. But what I said are my observations : no permanent content is as praised as non permanent one. The reason underneath is quite simple : when it comes only from time to time it looks fresh. After a month it is “usual content”. Vinewrath is fought everyday sure but nobody I saw in game talked about this fight as one of the best in the game world… it is just one world boss for most people.
If PvP leagues were open all the time, there would not be so much players, because nobody feels the urge of doing it so we’d postpone it to a later time. WvW tournaments were (will be) the same, it attracts players to do thing they would not necessarily do at that moment and by driving so many players together at one time it creates a much more enjoyable experience.
Turn SAB permanent and after 2 or 3 month, less and less people will play it. It will still be enjoyable but not in the same fashion as a festival. Even during the first year when SAB had been available 2 times (April and Sept), the “Back to School” update was less successful (from dev comments at that time).

Apologies if I made assumptions about you not liking it.

I think you’re cherry picking your cases a little. Fractals was permanent, and its by far one of the best additions in the game, despite the repeated attempts to ruin it. Heck, thanks to swamp it’s currently more repetitive than SAB, but no one asks for it to be turned off eleven months of the year.

I’m bored of fractals, and have been for a while. That doesn’t mean that I think they should be turned off. Not only would that mean that people who still like them will suffer, but it would also mean that when I eventually decide to go back to them, they’ll probably be unavailable.

I really don’t understand why the decision has come down on the side of turning SAB off. In no other game mode (apart from the ones tied to obvious holiday events) is this an issue. The only exception is the Queen’s Gauntlet, which I’d also argue should be permanent because it adds variety (specifically, moderately difficult solo play).

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

LS1 failed because it was temporary. That’s why LS2 was permanent, and then the LS model was replaced with an expansion model.

LS1 never failed. LS2 was implemented because there was a new thread every other day, demanding to be able to replay the stuff someone has missed.
We had a lot of fun during LS1 – not only with the marionette it was a fun way to meet all the people on your server and to stuff together. The only problem was that you had to have enough people in most cases, that’s why people guested because there was no megaservers around yet.
I may be in the minority but I liked LS1 a lot better – LS2 feels like a chore to me.

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Posted by: bananaman.1685

bananaman.1685

I don’t. I think it is funny for 5 minutes and then dead content. I just don’t understand why everyone raves about it. It’s a bad parody on a different game genre and I don’t think the devs should spend any more time on it at all. It should have stayed dead and buried imo.

So, please don’t try to speak for everyone.

To be fair, while I agree it is wrong to speak for everyone, you yourself just said that everyone raves about it, but you still don’t think the devs should spend any more time on it. So while you aren’t speaking for everyone, you do seem to be asking the devs to cater specifically to your needs at the expense of everyone else.

I’ll concede the “everyone” thing. It’s a good point well made, although you have continued the bad habit!

My problem with SAB is that is a jokey mini-game that is in danger of outgrowing its remit. We’ve got calls for more levels, permanent access, more gem shop items. We’ve got people who want to spend all of their time playing it instead of the main game – the game they bought. SAB is not GW2. It started as a joke but it’s in danger of pulling dev resources away from the real game. and we know how short of resources they are. If you step back and strip away the hype, SAB is shallow and quite rubbish. This is, of course, just my opinion. Maybe everyone else but me feels differently, in which case I’m in the wrong game.

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

SAB is only a cool feature because it is temporary.

Its temporary nature has two effects for players and neither of them make SAB as content any more or any less cool. The fact that it’s temporary for instance probably does not make the players that do not like it at all like it any more than they would if it was permanent.

On the contrary I would say some of them would be happier (if it was permanent), because it would mean it coming around wouldn’t be such a big deal to those that do like it (makes it easier for them to ignore it, you see).

Secondly, while its temporary nature certainly affects how people play it, it doesn’t affect how they enjoy it.

On the contrary I would say some of the people would probably enjoying it more (as permanent content) if they knew they could go about it at their own pace. Feeling like you only have X amount of time to play some content sucks… as much as I liked the frequency of content updates in season 1, I hated it for making me feel like I had to play now or I would always regret it (well, until Scarlett at least).

The real reason it is temporary content is also twofold, one you get dat HYPE element, and, if they like it, players will play it like they have no other choice. Because they sort don’t, most of us don’t even know what games we will be playing year down the line for sure. Secondly as a temporary festival, it is way more cost effective for ArenaNet, no need to worry if it would break in the interim… instead throw a skeleton crew on it once a year to please the players that do like it.

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Posted by: Halvorn.9831

Halvorn.9831

LS1 failed because it was temporary.

It what?!? Just because several people on this forum complained, which is true for every other attempt at giving them content?

Hell no, it did not fail. To this day it was the best content that has been delivered BECAUSE of its temporary nature. Things could change on wide scale. Leave me alone with that instanced story content, bah.

BTT: I think SAB would get old quickly if it was to stay permanently. I think it’s ok this way.

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Posted by: EdgarMTanaka.7291

EdgarMTanaka.7291

I don’t. I think it is funny for 5 minutes and then dead content. I just don’t understand why everyone raves about it. It’s a bad parody on a different game genre and I don’t think the devs should spend any more time on it at all. It should have stayed dead and buried imo.

So, please don’t try to speak for everyone.

To be fair, while I agree it is wrong to speak for everyone, you yourself just said that everyone raves about it, but you still don’t think the devs should spend any more time on it. So while you aren’t speaking for everyone, you do seem to be asking the devs to cater specifically to your needs at the expense of everyone else.

I’ll concede the “everyone” thing. It’s a good point well made, although you have continued the bad habit!

My problem with SAB is that is a jokey mini-game that is in danger of outgrowing its remit. We’ve got calls for more levels, permanent access, more gem shop items. We’ve got people who want to spend all of their time playing it instead of the main game – the game they bought. SAB is not GW2. It started as a joke but it’s in danger of pulling dev resources away from the real game. and we know how short of resources they are. If you step back and strip away the hype, SAB is shallow and quite rubbish. This is, of course, just my opinion. Maybe everyone else but me feels differently, in which case I’m in the wrong game.

I love SAB but I agree with some of the things here.

Why I do love SAB on the other hand is because I am a classic Nintendo fan and I love 8-bit music and the retro feeling that the devs have given it. I think it should stay as a festival content and only be worked on when devs feel that they have time over for it (if that ever happens).

Member of Alpha Swedish Gaming Community – http://www.alphas.se/
Guild Leader of Alpha Sgc [ASGC]

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

I don’t. I think it is funny for 5 minutes and then dead content. I just don’t understand why everyone raves about it. It’s a bad parody on a different game genre and I don’t think the devs should spend any more time on it at all. It should have stayed dead and buried imo.

So, please don’t try to speak for everyone.

To be fair, while I agree it is wrong to speak for everyone, you yourself just said that everyone raves about it, but you still don’t think the devs should spend any more time on it. So while you aren’t speaking for everyone, you do seem to be asking the devs to cater specifically to your needs at the expense of everyone else.

I’ll concede the “everyone” thing. It’s a good point well made, although you have continued the bad habit!

My problem with SAB is that is a jokey mini-game that is in danger of outgrowing its remit. We’ve got calls for more levels, permanent access, more gem shop items. We’ve got people who want to spend all of their time playing it instead of the main game – the game they bought. SAB is not GW2. It started as a joke but it’s in danger of pulling dev resources away from the real game. and we know how short of resources they are. If you step back and strip away the hype, SAB is shallow and quite rubbish. This is, of course, just my opinion. Maybe everyone else but me feels differently, in which case I’m in the wrong game.

That’s why it should stay as temp content to bridge the content gaps between whatever they plan for the main game, be it living story or expansion. And new worlds added if time allows. Since no game company can produce quality content fast enough to keep new things coming out at the rate at which players consume them.

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Posted by: CrashTestAuto.9108

CrashTestAuto.9108

LS1 never failed. LS2 was implemented because there was a new thread every other day, demanding to be able to replay the stuff someone has missed.
We had a lot of fun during LS1 – not only with the marionette it was a fun way to meet all the people on your server and to stuff together. The only problem was that you had to have enough people in most cases, that’s why people guested because there was no megaservers around yet.
I may be in the minority but I liked LS1 a lot better – LS2 feels like a chore to me.

LS1 clearly did fail, which is why we don’t have that model any more.

Don’t get me wrong though, I don’t mean to say LS1 was bad. I preferred it to LS2 and HoT. But the problem is just that, I prefer*red* it. It has gone. I don’t get to enjoy it any more, new players never enjoyed it, and I can’t convince anyone to buy the game to play it.

If LS1 had been similar in structure, but permanent, it would have been awesome. There would have been fewer complaints, we wouldn’t have had as many cries for an expansion, and we would have a lot more game world than we do now. It wasn’t permanent, so we got all those things.

Yes, you enjoyed the marrionette. So did I. But the marrionette doesn’t give me a reason to log in today, and it certainly doesn’t give anyone else a reason to buy the game.

I wish they’d go back to the LS1 model, just without the temporary content. Instead of destroying and rebuilding LA twice, give us one or two new cities. Instead of making a dungeon then taking it away, don’t take it away. Instead of making a giant tower and then destroying it, just make it and leave it. A lowly populated area is still better than an area that no longer exists.

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Posted by: CrashTestAuto.9108

CrashTestAuto.9108

That’s why it should stay as temp content to bridge the content gaps between whatever they plan for the main game, be it living story or expansion. And new worlds added if time allows. Since no game company can produce quality content fast enough to keep new things coming out at the rate at which players consume them.

Why do SAB players have to be the ones to lose out? Turn off PvP eleven months of the year and use that as a bridge.

This is the first time in months that non-pvpers have had something to do. In a bit over a week, we may be back in that same position until the next “bridge” comes along, and that’s assuming it’s something we actually like.

If you don’t want to play SAB, don’t play it until the next content drought. For those of us who do, why penalise us?

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Posted by: Zephyria.6103

Zephyria.6103

I agree with the original poster. I’ll never get to experience the marionette encounter due to it’s temporary nature and occurence before I joined the game. If it were still available…it’d be more for me to explore…and a draw for other joining players.

Thankfully I DO have the opportunity to play the SAB. But worlds inside worlds is a huge plus for exploration. Will I play it for months and months…of course not. But it’d be a nice occasional thing I’d come and goof around with.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

LS1 never failed. LS2 was implemented because there was a new thread every other day, demanding to be able to replay the stuff someone has missed.

LS1 clearly did fail, which is why we don’t have that model any more.

Do you even read what I write?

ETA: And also Zephyria: I’d rather have the devs work on dynamic events that don’t have to be perfect but something where people can really play together than having them spending their time on boring LS2 in which you are all alone.
The marionette (and evacuation of LA) were that great because we were 150 people working together, you can’t put that into a replayable living story personal story.

(edited by Jana.6831)

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Posted by: Redenaz.8631

Redenaz.8631

I like the idea of SAB being temporary, but recurring. That gives people something to look forward to and enjoy on a regular basis, and it give the devs some breathing room, where they can tweak a couple things, let it go, and focus on other projects in the meanwhile, just like Halloween and Wintersday. It’s filler content, but it’s popular. Festivals serve a very practical purpose, besides just being fun.

I love the Halloween activities, but I’d certainly be less into them if I could do them all year. That’s got to be frustrating if you’re confident you could play SAB all year, but I get the reasoning behind making it temporary.

~The Storyteller – Elementalist – Jade Quarry~

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Posted by: insanemaniac.2456

insanemaniac.2456

LS1 never failed. LS2 was implemented because there was a new thread every other day, demanding to be able to replay the stuff someone has missed.

LS1 clearly did fail, which is why we don’t have that model any more.

Do you even read what I write?

ETA: And also Zephyria: I’d rather have the devs work on dynamic events that don’t have to be perfect but something where people can really play together than having them spending their time on boring LS2 in which you are all alone.
The marionette (and evacuation of LA) were that great because we were 150 people working together, you can’t put that into a replayable living story personal story.

if they arent perfect, endless crying and kittening

JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

if they arent perfect, endless crying and kittening

No, although there has been a lot of rage because there were too many rangers at the marionette – it wasn’t pretty.

My point was rather: A buyable LS2 has got to be perfect, a LS1 like event doesn’t have to – but maybe I’m wrong with that – I don’t know which takes more work – the marionette sure seemed pretty effortful.

(edited by Jana.6831)

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Posted by: suffish.4150

suffish.4150

I wouldn’t want SAB to be permanent because if it becomes permanent, I would just stop playing it after a while and never care about it again. One example of this is the living world season 2 maps. I absolutely loved them when they first came out but now I haven’t played them for months. That is because they are permanent and I get bored of them when I farm them so much. Temporary festivals such as Halloween/wintersday/crown pavilion I will always enjoy because I never burn out. Having a big break from content makes me excited to play it when it comes back and I think this is why SAB should not be permanent however much I enjoy it right now. Temporary content is always more fun than permanent content in my opinion.

PvP- Stronlo Beastmaster (Ranger)
PvE- Grolex (Warrior)
PvP rank: 20 Rating: 1864 (season 7)

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

Here is something that I know has probably been brought up before (I also know it is about as likely to happen as W3 dropping tomorrow).

SAB could be put in the activity rotation or on a similar rotation of its own (see below). I know this is not much of a sales pitch, however, the only activity I sometimes play is Sanctum Sprint, the rest I just skip altogether. But I know for a fact that if SAB was in that rotation I would definitely play it.

Now I know this is almost certainly a technical impossibility as is because of how the activities work. That being said bringing it up isn’t going to hurt anybody.

As for all this talk about SAB being a danger to the main game and siphoning resources etc. — I think it is indicative of how much confidence ArenaNet has in their game if they are worried that permanently allowing access to a piece of content such as SAB, as is (let’s ignore any potential future development altogether for a second), is going to be such a major detriment to the rest of that game.

Yes keeping SAB functional, if it was accessible permanently, would probably have some effective cost, however, that would be no more than say keeping all of the current activities functional as it is because every single one of those is similar in nature in that they have a set of unique mechanics that are not necessarily represented anywhere else in the game.

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Posted by: Seera.5916

Seera.5916

That’s why it should stay as temp content to bridge the content gaps between whatever they plan for the main game, be it living story or expansion. And new worlds added if time allows. Since no game company can produce quality content fast enough to keep new things coming out at the rate at which players consume them.

Why do SAB players have to be the ones to lose out? Turn off PvP eleven months of the year and use that as a bridge.

This is the first time in months that non-pvpers have had something to do. In a bit over a week, we may be back in that same position until the next “bridge” comes along, and that’s assuming it’s something we actually like.

If you don’t want to play SAB, don’t play it until the next content drought. For those of us who do, why penalise us?

Because SAB was never advertised as one of the core parts of the game. PvP was and is still advertised as one of the core parts of the game. It’s like saying Wintersday should last all year long because some people really enjoy the minigames that Wintersday brings. At least this time we’ve got a good indication of the next time we’ll definitely see SAB, unlike the last time.

I’d be fine with them releasing a different festival or content bridge after SAB ends if they aren’t planning on starting LS3 up in a couple of weeks. I’d also be just fine with them extending SAB another couple of months if they didn’t have anything else ready until a couple of months from now.

But as it is niche content (a majority of all Guild Wars 2 players very likely don’t find SAB to be their top priority for what content they want worked on primarily) and is apparently prone to breaking horribly when they patch the game, it should not be something that is kept around continuously like PvP or dungeons or Fractals are. Especially when ANet apparently has to postpone content advertised in HoT to make sure they can get more PvE content that appeals to the majority out in a reasonable time frame.

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

Majority of all Guild Wars 2 players very likely don’t find SAB to be their top priority for what content they want worked on primarily

This is not at all what most people are talking about, sure some information about a potential W3 at some point in the indeterminate future would be nice, however, no-one to my knowledge is saying cancel or push back LS3 or Expac 2 in favor of SAB.

— is apparently prone to breaking horribly when they patch the game, it should not be something that is kept around continuously —

This hasn’t actually ever been said verbatim… SAB can break yes and HoT caused it to break a lot, however, same is probably true for bunch of other content pieces. For example, let’s take the activities in game currently. Sanctum Sprint for example or Southsun survival (incidentally both probably use tech that I think SAB pioneered, ie. the run over and pickup style interactions the baubles use). The fact that HoT broke SAB does not mean SAB will break every time they patch the game or even that it would break most of the time.

Any major revision of the game such as expac has the potential to break existing content and it probably does, the fact is that we are in a unique position here because they actually went ahead and told us this was the case with SAB. It does not make SAB special in that respect though if it was made permanent.

Yeah it does some things done nowhere else in game but that applies to number of content that is currently permanent. All SAB being permanent would mean that during backend and infrastructure changes they have to be more aware of its existence. The requirements for normal content creation would likely not change at all or very little because content creators use tools that are specifically built for it and engine capabilities are additive not reductive (meaning that in order for any content to keep working engine capabilities can not be removed only added to, under normal circumstances).

Especially when ANet apparently has to postpone content advertised in HoT to make sure they can get more PvE content that appeals to the majority out in a reasonable time frame.

The funny thing is, so far that postponement has shown no visible gains only losses, and they even admitted that due to lead times it would not affect how soon we LS3 or other currently announced content.

(edited by Crise.9401)

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Posted by: Infusion.7149

Infusion.7149

They would need to adjust the ascended weapons being handed out (it’s essentially once every 8 days right now).

Desolation (EU) → Yak’s Bend (US)
In your backline: Elementalist+Mesmer+Necromancer

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

They would need to adjust the ascended weapons being handed out (it’s essentially once every 8 days right now).

No they wouldn’t because the stuff you get once in 8 days is just a skin as far as I know, the ascended weapons only come from the Tribulation mode collections. That said it would probably be in their best interests to slow down the acquisition of those skins if SAB was to be permanent.

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Posted by: Infusion.7149

Infusion.7149

They would need to adjust the ascended weapons being handed out (it’s essentially once every 8 days right now).

No they wouldn’t because the stuff you get once in 8 days is just a skin as far as I know, the ascended weapons only come from the Tribulation mode collections. That said it would probably be in their best interests to slow down the acquisition of those skins if SAB was to be permanent.

Right now the skins are 400-500g…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kaiser_Snake_Weapon_Box_

Kaiser Snake weapon skins (orange): Earned through completing Course Load or by completing Tribulation Mode collections.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kaiser_Snake_Greatsword —-> Acquisition: Kaiser Snake Weapon Box

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kaiser_Snake_Hammer —-> Acquisition: Kaiser Snake Weapon Box

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kaiser_Snake_weapon_skins

Desolation (EU) → Yak’s Bend (US)
In your backline: Elementalist+Mesmer+Necromancer

(edited by Infusion.7149)

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

They would need to adjust the ascended weapons being handed out (it’s essentially once every 8 days right now).

No they wouldn’t because the stuff you get once in 8 days is just a skin as far as I know, the ascended weapons only come from the Tribulation mode collections. That said it would probably be in their best interests to slow down the acquisition of those skins if SAB was to be permanent.

Right now the skins are 400-500g…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kaiser_Snake_Weapon_Box_

Kaiser Snake weapon skins (orange): Earned through completing Course Load or by completing Tribulation Mode collections.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kaiser_Snake_Greatsword —-> Acquisition: Kaiser Snake Weapon Box

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kaiser_Snake_Hammer —-> Acquisition: Kaiser Snake Weapon Box

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kaiser_Snake_weapon_skins

So the skin from Course Load is Account Bound. Besides even if it weren’t it is not like anyone has said that they have to forever remain that valuable.

On the contrary the most unlucky person in the world would have to work until year 2022 to get the orange backback if all the variables remain the same.

(edited by Crise.9401)

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Posted by: Serenity.6149

Serenity.6149

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kaiser_Snake_Weapon_Box_

^ this is the one you get from Course Load.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kaiser_Snake_Weapon_Box

^ this is the one you get from the Tribulation collections.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

FYI not everyone loves SAB. Many who love it are extremely vocal about their enthusiasm; those who think it’s meh or hate it aren’t posting.

It’s niche content, which makes it well-suited for running as a festival, just like Wintersday & Pavilion (and previously Zephyrite). It’s something that people can farm until burnout for a few weeks until the next thing comes around

(Of course, the problem with 2015 content was… the next thing barely showed up at all — I’d rather they fix that problem than just make all the festivals permanent.)

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

FYI not everyone loves SAB. Many who love it are extremely vocal about their enthusiasm; those who think it’s meh or hate it aren’t posting.

“FYI not everyone loves X” Substitute X for any any piece of content in the game and your sentiment rings just as true. There is no type of content that could ever be universally loved.

For example: FYI, not everyone loves raids. — those who think they are meh or hate them aren’t talking about them.

The fact is, however, that the fact that not everyone likes a particular style of content doesn’t automatically mean it could not be considered as a permanent inclusion to the game. I am sure not everyone loves Southsun survival or Sanctum sprint, yet both of those are previously “festival” content made permanent (yes, they are in a rotation, but they are still permanent as in no-longer festival content).

Personally, if the chances are that SAB will not see future development in the coming years which it really looks like. Then taking a good hard look at whether it should be made more accessible as is for those that enjoy it is entirely warranted. Because, the fact that one player enjoys SAB and another does not in no way takes away from the enjoyment of either player. If SAB were to be permanent, those that don’t like it would not suffer from that fact.

No-one would lose in any way if a piece of temporary content is made more accessible or permanent.

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

SAB is only a cool feature because it is temporary. Anet understood quite early that temp content is the best experience for players hence all LS1.
How many speak about Marionette as the most exciting boss they fought in GW2? Yet when Vinewrath was was released, everybody mentioned how it reminds the Marionette… but after 6 months few people still care about it.
Tower of Nightmare was super fun ! But it was just a zerg fest in a small map. The fact it lasted only 2 weeks makes it one of the funniest experience in the game.

If you want to continue to love SAB so much, it is better that it remains a temporary content.

LS1 failed because it was temporary. That’s why LS2 was permanent, and then the LS model was replaced with an expansion model.

People still fight Vinewraith. Heck, Dry Top and the Silverwastes are two of the best things to come out of the Living World. They still get played today. Yes, the Marionette is remembered fondly, but that’s because it was part of a bigger and more exciting world, with constant updates. Not because it was temporary. Tequatl still gets killed many times a day, and it’s arguable a less interesting fight.

As to SAB only being a cool feature because it’s temporary, that’s just not true. It’s also weird how many of the people invested in keeping SAB turned off seem to be people who don’t actually like it that much. I don’t love WvW, but I don’t try and get it shut down eleven months of the year.

Living world 1 didn’t fail. Just a general opinion that kept popping up was that people were missing out. And ArenaNet was being strained by trying to push our releasesevery two weeks. Thats all that happened. Other than that every release there were lots of people playing it. Maybe due to the being available of a two week period only. But definitely popular regardless.

The reason why temporarily activation of SAB is better is just that it makes it so players don’t get burned out on tbe content.

“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik

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Posted by: drunkenpilot.9837

drunkenpilot.9837

Temporary is fine with me. But one more week, please! That’s all! One extra week

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Posted by: CrashTestAuto.9108

CrashTestAuto.9108

Living world 1 didn’t fail. Just a general opinion that kept popping up was that people were missing out. And ArenaNet was being strained by trying to push our releasesevery two weeks. Thats all that happened. Other than that every release there were lots of people playing it. Maybe due to the being available of a two week period only. But definitely popular regardless.

The reason why temporarily activation of SAB is better is just that it makes it so players don’t get burned out on tbe content.

When I said LS1 failed, I didn’t mean it wasn’t popular. Obviously it was. Personally I loved LS1. What I meant was that it failed as a business model. Spending countless hours making content that would then be almost immediately taken away didn’t serve ANet or the players’ interests. Players wind up with a game that doesn’t grow over time, and ANet don’t have anything more to offer new customers (and actually, new customers wind up looking at a story they can’t actually experience the whole of).

Yes there was a nice feeling of “I was there”, and we have nice memories, but we could have had those anyway. Remember the first time your server or guild killed the new Tequatl? That isn’t taken away just because the fight is still in the game. What it means is that new players can still actually enjoy that content instead of just hearing about it.

Ideally we would have had LS1 style updates, but without actually taking them away. There was no need to shut the Tower of Nightmares, or the original Molten dungeon. Rather than constantly rebuilding LA they could have made a new city (or two, given the amount of updates it’s had). If they’d been doing that from the start (throwing in things like Dry Top and Silverwastes) we’d have probably more content than we do now, even without HoT, and never have had to go through this content drought.

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Posted by: FrizzFreston.5290

FrizzFreston.5290

Thats not true. There basically would still be a content drought as a content drought means no NEW content. There’s enough content in the game to play, just not everyone is playing it. Even if that content would still be in the game, it would be at least a year old.

“It isn’t working!” CL4P-TP
Ingame Name: Guardian Erik

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Posted by: General Health.9678

General Health.9678

No-one would lose in any way if a piece of temporary content is made more accessible or permanent.

You keep saying that and it’s still not going to change anything. Festivals and events are meant to be temporary content that gets rotated in. Anything new quickly becomes old and dull, the complaints about there not being enough to do in SAB would start in the third week of it being permanent.

And you’re completely forgetting that anet benefits from this style of event rotation. Every festival brings people back, gets people talking, introduces new themed gemstore items or has new skins people can earn and sell. It’s part of the economy of the game.

Blame Abaddon, he loves your tears.
pve, raid, pvp, fractal, dungeon, world clearing, legendary questing.. Zapped!

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Posted by: BrotherBelial.3094

BrotherBelial.3094

SAB is only a cool feature because it is temporary. Anet understood quite early that temp content is the best experience for players hence all LS1.
How many speak about Marionette as the most exciting boss they fought in GW2? Yet when Vinewrath was was released, everybody mentioned how it reminds the Marionette… but after 6 months few people still care about it.
Tower of Nightmare was super fun ! But it was just a zerg fest in a small map. The fact it lasted only 2 weeks makes it one of the funniest experience in the game.

If you want to continue to love SAB so much, it is better that it remains a temporary content.

I personally don’t get the Hype about SAB, it is a fun thing to do for about 5 minuets, and that’s about it for me. it’s going to be a yearly thing now, so that should keep people happy.

As for temporary content being the best… I’d have to disagree strongly. while LS1 had it’s good points, and yes events are talked about, they are only talked about because they are not there anymore. You can’t really sell a game to someone by past events as you never know how good the next one will be. Imagine it this way,
Person 1: “Man this Guild wars 2 game is awesome, we where fighing this big boss thing it was epic!”
Person 2: “man that sounds fun, I’ll have to get it!”
person 1"sorry it’s not in the game anymore"

i5 4690K @ 3.5Mhz|8GB HyperX Savage 1600mHz|MSI H81M-E34|MSI GTX 960 Gaming 2GB|
|Seasonic S12G 650W|Win10 Pro X64| Corsair Spec 03 Case|

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Posted by: Crise.9401

Crise.9401

You keep saying that and it’s still not going to change anything.

It did for Southsun Survival and Sanctum Sprint, or are they not now permanent content.

And you’re completely forgetting that anet benefits from this style of event rotation.

I am well aware of the fact that ArenaNet benefits from having festivals they can run when they need to… the only problem with that is it doesn’t benefit the players in any way. It is not like SAB is an actual holiday event, ie. there is no thematic reason for it to be pigeon holed in being an April festival.

We went through a year of festivals what felt like every other month during the first year of the game… unfortunately only Halloween and Wintersday have really stuck around. The irony of the whole situation is because they involved story with those festivals (Zephyrites and the murder of Captains Council member in particular) they can’t really justify bringing them back with minimal effort (well blowing up LA counts too).

Even though Dragon Bash would have fit just fine as a post-HoT festival. Oh but wait they butchered that and made it this dinky little thing in DR for Chinese new year no open world elements like Halloween or Wintersday at all. The sad truth is the only real festivals with any substance from that year are Halloween and Wintersday, BotFW would be decent too, if they found a way to bring it back that made sense in the current story.

I know that SAB as they have laid it out benefits ArenaNet, however, that is no reason for me not to voice my opinion because I am not their advocate.

(edited by Crise.9401)

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Posted by: CrashTestAuto.9108

CrashTestAuto.9108

Thats not true. There basically would still be a content drought as a content drought means no NEW content. There’s enough content in the game to play, just not everyone is playing it. Even if that content would still be in the game, it would be at least a year old.

I’m not saying that LS1 should have been permanent and then they should have done what they did afterwards anyway. I’m saying LS1 should have been permanent and then they should have continued with the LS1 model.

Imagine if every two weeks from the start of LS1 we’d received permanent updates on the scale of the Molten Alliance dungeon, or the Marionette, or the Silverwastes. Heck, not even every two weeks, every month.

The game would be crammed with content. We’d have dungeons to run, SAB to play, the Queen’s Gauntlet to try, Fractals to do (remember they came in LS1 too), new maps to explore… Who knows what else we could have had.

Instead, we have very little from Season 1, new players need to buy a lot of Season 2, HoT was a disappointment, and the most exciting thing we’ve had in a year and a half is that they turned on content that they chose to turn off in 2013.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

I’m not saying that LS1 should have been permanent and then they should have done what they did afterwards anyway. I’m saying LS1 should have been permanent and then they should have continued with the LS1 model.

Imagine if every two weeks from the start of LS1 we’d received permanent updates on the scale of the Molten Alliance dungeon, or the Marionette, or the Silverwastes. Heck, not even every two weeks, every month.

The game would be crammed with content. We’d have dungeons to run, SAB to play, the Queen’s Gauntlet to try, Fractals to do (remember they came in LS1 too), new maps to explore… Who knows what else we could have had.

Instead, we have very little from Season 1, new players need to buy a lot of Season 2, HoT was a disappointment, and the most exciting thing we’ve had in a year and a half is that they turned on content that they chose to turn off in 2013.

And I guess you’re paying the extra 100 devs needed to programm and invent all of this?
And I guess the reason why we had no content for so long was because they worked on HoT long before they announced it.
If you had that many content you wouldn’t have enough people to play all of it. Unless, of course, you want to play it alone.

ETA: I loved the Dredge Boss atthe “evacuation of LA” – I really miss that Boss – there’s no way he’s coming back, I know that but maybe that is one of the reasons why I think this game is great and why I would tell people who haven’t been there “that event was really cool, I hope for the next event, it’s always fun” – of course people want to relive it, but is it really that important? You can either have LS2 or LS1, but not both, so what would you rather take? For me it’s LS1.

(edited by Jana.6831)

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Posted by: Kicast.1459

Kicast.1459

I don’t know if it has already been posted but I found this video pretty nice:
https://youtu.be/WKBKak4gU0g
Congratulation for tge creativity to the video makers.

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Posted by: CrashTestAuto.9108

CrashTestAuto.9108

And I guess you’re paying the extra 100 devs needed to programm and invent all of this?

Well sort of, yeah. My gem purchases, the people I encourage to buy the game, their gem purchases. Then multiply that by every other player.

If the game had stayed at the level it was in LS1, with permanent additions keeping it constantly growing, then fewer players would have grown disillusioned, and they would have encouraged more people to buy the game, who would themselves have bought gems and encouraged others to join.

Whether the LS1 model could have been self-sustaining, I don’t know. But it isn’t like I’m suggesting the devs work for free.

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Posted by: Frediosz.2718

Frediosz.2718

SAB as pernament content ?
Hell no.

I can already see people whining left and right that there is “nothing new” in SAB so i can see people on whinerage after 2-3 months of SAB as ‘pernament’.

No thanks, as a huge fan of SAB i would rather have it added as a 1st April content every year so it would remain as a ‘fresh’ stuff with maybe added next worlds rather than something that will get boring after a month.

Plus its a festival and those ain’t avaible all year – ween and winter are perfect examples.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

And I guess you’re paying the extra 100 devs needed to programm and invent all of this?

Well sort of, yeah. My gem purchases, the people I encourage to buy the game, their gem purchases. Then multiply that by every other player.

If the game had stayed at the level it was in LS1, with permanent additions keeping it constantly growing, then fewer players would have grown disillusioned, and they would have encouraged more people to buy the game, who would themselves have bought gems and encouraged others to join.

Whether the LS1 model could have been self-sustaining, I don’t know. But it isn’t like I’m suggesting the devs work for free.

There’s no LS1 anymore because of LS2 which is what you want.
There are already 220 devs working on this game, I guess we’d need to buy a lot of gems to pay the additional ones needed.
Unfortunately megaservers and LS2 were brought into the game at the same time, I guess it would’ve been better if we had some more LS1 before switching to LS2 if switching to it at all. But yes, it’s probably easier to make LS2, although its still a lot of work, problm is that probably a lot of people left because of that because the game still felt like “dying” to them. But that’s just speculation – all I want is to have my thief and wvw back to about how they’ve been one year ago – I don’t really care for PvE content but I’m mostly glad when an event pops up so I can waste my time there instead of being grumpy in wvw as the game just isn’t what it used to be. And for that I like the content to be temporary as that “forces me” to play it now and therefore is a great distraction. If it were always there I wouldn’t play it. I probably would play dungeons if they were only here for a week.

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Posted by: CrashTestAuto.9108

CrashTestAuto.9108

There’s no LS1 anymore because of LS2 which is what you want.

Okay, as you don’t seem to be reading anything I’m saying, I’m going to thank you for the conversation and bow out.

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Posted by: Tumult.2578

Tumult.2578

Don’t most of us look at new or returning content, get an idea of what we want, or what we think we can achieve, and then strive for it? Gw2’s way of keeping us interested and playing was by providing new content with new goals and rewards.

As much as I enjoy Sab I strongly suspect that once I had achieved those goals I had set,
I would lose interest in it. Aren’t most of us risk/reward oriented? Without reward, Sab’s risk and effort would become pointless.

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Posted by: Tumult.2578

Tumult.2578

Persistent forum bug